June 2013 - Test - lists.nanog.org

Fwd: Re: This is a coordinated hacking. (Was Re: Need help in flushing DNS)
by Timothy Morizot 20 Jun '13

20 Jun '13

On Jun 20, 2013 5:31 PM, "Randy Bush" <randy(a)psg.com> wrote: > and dnssec did not save us. is there anything which could have? Hmmm. DNSSEC wouldn't have prevented an outage. But from everything I've seen reported, had the zones been signed, validating recursive resolvers (comcast, google, much of federal government, mine) would have returned servfail and would not have cached the bad nameservers in their good cache. Users would have simply failed to connect instead of being sent to the wrong page and recovery would have been quicker and easier. From my perspective as someone responsible for DNS at a fairly large enterprise, that would have been preferable. But then, the zones for which I'm responsible are signed. YMMV, Scott

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Re: Need help in flushing DNS
by Brandon Butterworth 20 Jun '13

20 Jun '13

> Is there an organization that coordinates outages like this amongst the > industry? No, usually they are surprise outages though Anonymous have tried coordinating a few brandon

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Wiki for people doing IPv6-only testing
by Jason Fesler 20 Jun '13

20 Jun '13

On a recent IPv6 providers call, there was a desire for participants to share information with each other on what works and what breaks in an IPv6-only environment. I offered to set that up. It was further suggested I should share this with more than just that small community; to anyone who might be doing work to test out IPv6-only scenarios. http://wiki.test-ipv6.com This is distinct from ARIN's wiki in so far that this is less about being a general IPv6 resource and more about the IPv6-only scenario resource. Contributions are welcome, but we're requiring folks to sign up before contributing to keep the spam down. -jfesler(a)gigo.com / jfesler(a)test-ipv6.com

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If you thought you had wire management issues in your facilities...
by Tom Morris 19 Jun '13

19 Jun '13

Radio Free Asia, Washington DC. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=485799631503312&set=gm.536342003094… Just remember, you're probably in better shape than them. If you look carefully on the right side you can see where some cables were left abandoned in place because they'd become unremovable from that giant set of dreadlocks. -- -- Tom Morris, KG4CYX Mad Scientist For Hire Chairman, South Florida Tropical Hamboree / Miami Hamfest Engineer, WRGP Radiate FM, Florida International University 786-228-7087 151.820 Megacycles

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RE: NANOG Digest, Vol 65, Issue 74
by Cliff Bowles 19 Jun '13

19 Jun '13

As stated, every vendor has its merits. If you really put some time into developing a list of requirements and then structure a bakeoff that tests those, you will learn a lot. Some things to think about: * don't let JUNOS or any other CLI deter you. You just need to factor in training and hiring efforts/costs. We switched to Juniper for 50+ campus routers (haven't used their switches yet) because they had way better bang for the buck. The engineers that whined about it not being Cisco were not the ones I cared to keep. The engineers that went out and learned JUNOS then slapped it on their resume were, by far, the more reliable and skilled engineers. Also, when you are hiring, I bet that you will find that engineers with substantial experience in other platforms will also perform very well on the technical interviews. They will probably know advanced BGP, MPLS, tunneling, multicast, QOS and other stuff that your average interviewee does not. It's a mindset. *politics: we replaced a large section of our network with Foundry (a price-per-port) decision. They worked as well as any vendor out there, but their support was... not polished as Cisco or Juniper. But the real problem came from the low level support engineers who had a CCNA and were Cisco-oriented. Now, when we had Cisco blade/power/code failures, it was a "network failure". When the Foundry had a problem, it was a "Foundry failure". I watched a huge outage due to a poor spanning tree design get branded as a Foundry issue. Management hears this enough and eventually we are told to replace the Foundry switches. I pulled ticket logs and proved that the support team had nearly twice the amount of open tickets and logged failures with Cisco as they did with Foundry, but it didn't matter. *politics again: If you are a big cisco shop and you decide to use another vendor somewhere, I GUARANTEE that a regional sales VP and some ducklings in suits will soon walk directly into the CIO's office. They will argue that the bakeoff was skewed, that price-per-port value doesn't factor in a lot of other value that cisco brings, they will even question the skillset of your engineers who performed the bakeoff, etc... they will instill Fear-Uncertainty-Doubt. They will offer another 2 or 3 % discount, they will throw in free professional services, and so on. Hell, they may put a Cisco employee on your board of directors. Short story - if there's a lot of money involved, you may wind up back with Cisco. I've seen it more than once That being said, I don't dislike Cisco at all. Their support is top notch and their training is pretty good. They take good care of their clients. A LOT of their products are good... some are not. But I did want to prepare you for the fun if you seriously consider another vendor. We have selected Mellanox for a small data warehouse, but that was a point solution due to the Infiniband requirements. We have selected Arista for a large Hadoop deployment. So far, they are a great product and a great value. Support seems good, but we haven't called them much yet. That's a good thing. One other thing to consider is future state and emerging technologies. If you are an architect or if you work with architecture to obtain design direction, ask about future needs for multi-tenancy, SDN, automation and such. I think you'll find that not only is Arista way out ahead of some vendors with this, they are using Open source code, more or less. Cisco has onePK, but their automation and API integration is not only proprietary, it's misleading. I haven't seen the other vendor solutions yet, so I can't say who is BEST at automation, orchestration, and SDN... So... determine what's important to your network today and in 3-5 years, then look at what's being offered. cwb -----Original Message----- From: nanog-request(a)nanog.org [mailto:nanog-request@nanog.org] Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2013 8:18 PM To: nanog(a)nanog.org Subject: NANOG Digest, Vol 65, Issue 74 Send NANOG mailing list submissions to nanog(a)nanog.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mailman.nanog.org/mailman/listinfo/nanog or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to nanog-request(a)nanog.org You can reach the person managing the list at nanog-owner(a)nanog.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of NANOG digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Network Vendor suggestions/reviews, Arista Networks, Dell Force10, Juniper, Extreme Networks etc... (Phil Fagan) 2. Re: Network Vendor suggestions/reviews, Arista Networks, Dell Force10, Juniper, Extreme Networks etc... (Mike Hale) 3. Re: Network Vendor suggestions/reviews, Arista Networks, Dell Force10, Juniper, Extreme Networks etc... (Phil Fagan) 4. Re: Network Vendor suggestions/reviews, Arista Networks, Dell Force10, Juniper, Extreme Networks etc... (Brent Jones) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2013 19:11:01 -0600 From: Phil Fagan <philfagan(a)gmail.com> To: Blake Pfankuch - Mailing List <blake.mailinglist(a)pfankuch.me> Cc: "NANOG \(nanog(a)nanog.org\)" <nanog(a)nanog.org> Subject: Re: Network Vendor suggestions/reviews, Arista Networks, Dell Force10, Juniper, Extreme Networks etc... Message-ID: <CAPhg-wRuiaopSV1PbkqaXjWHroi62cxEY=A=dQ7RGbo70K8E7w(a)mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 I've had nothing but good luck with Juniper support and well with Cisco you pay for support too. I will say Arista support was great, however, I'm still hesitant to put them in full production; but I think that is lack of experience with them speaking. Do the bake off in your lab and let'm run! On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 6:31 PM, Blake Pfankuch - Mailing List < blake.mailinglist(a)pfankuch.me> wrote: > Let me also clarify, Price per port is not the final deciding factor. > We are looking much more at a combination of daily operational sanity, > troubleshooting features, operational feature set, vendor support > quality and price.**** > > ** ** > > Support is absolute key. When we need help, we need help quickly and > knowledgeable support. The name checkpoint comes to mind when I think > of something I DON?T want for support quality. It also causes > nausea?**** > > ** ** > > Thanks,**** > > ** ** > > Blake**** > > ** ** > > *From:* Phil Fagan [mailto:philfagan@gmail.com] > *Sent:* Tuesday, June 18, 2013 6:08 PM > *To:* Blake Pfankuch - Mailing List > *Cc:* NANOG (nanog(a)nanog.org) > *Subject:* Re: Network Vendor suggestions/reviews, Arista Networks, > Dell Force10, Juniper, Extreme Networks etc...**** > > ** ** > > I love JUNOS, don't really care for IOS. I really trust Cisco and > Juniper's hardware, with that being said Arista is your best bet for > cheapest port. I've only seen Arista in lab, not in the wild yet so I > can't speak for how I would trust them. You mention getting bit by > single sups, I believe as of late Arista has had issue with OSPF > failover time between dual-sups in HA setups.**** > > ** ** > > I used to have a Dell laptop....but I'm sure their great too. In the > end for me I only trust Cisco or Juniper. I've been burnt by Foundry > and am waiting to on Arista. **** > > ** ** > > On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 5:53 PM, Blake Pfankuch - Mailing List < > blake.mailinglist(a)pfankuch.me> wrote:**** > > Howdy, > I have been working on a proposal for the organization > I work for to move into the 10gbit datacenter. We have a small > datacenter currently of about 1000 ports of 1gbit. We have > traditionally been a full Cisco shop, however I was asked to do a > price comparison as well as features with other major alternative > vendors. I was also asked to do some digging as far as what "the real world" thinks about these possible vendors. > > We currently have 2 Cisco 6509's with 8 48 port cards Sup 3BXL, 2 > Cisco > 4506 with 5x 48 port card and Sup V's and 2 4900M switches providing > 10gbit to a very specialized implementation. With all of our > technology, we try to not be bleeding edge, but oozing edge. We need > 5 9's or more of uptime yearly so stability is preferable to cool > features. We currently have single supervisors in all of our switches > (not my decision) and it has bit us recently. Everything we are > looking at needs to support NSF/SSO/VSS of some kind. > > What we have been looking to replace it with in Cisco world is Nexus > 7004 Core and Nexus 5596UP with 2200 series Fabric extenders for > Dist/Access as well as 2200 Fabric Extenders within our Dell Blade > Chassis. Realistically we will be under 800 ports of 10gbit > (excluding Blades) which puts us in a tough spot from what I can find. > Currently everything we have is EOR, however TOR would make more sense > allowing us to switch to SFP+ twinax connectivity to servers. > > With this in mind, I have a few questions... > > It was mandated that I look at a company "Arista Networks" and > investigate possible options. I had not heard much about them, so I > look to the experts. Pro's and Con's? Real world experience? Looks > to me they have a lot of cool features, but I'm slightly concerned > with how new they might be, how reliable it would be as well as their > QA/bugfix history. Also 24x4 support and hardware replacement. > Everything in our datacenter currently has a 2 or 4 hour cisco > contract on it and critical core components have a cold spare in inventory. > > Dell Force 10... I know Dell tries to get you to drink the Koolaid on > this solution, I was a former Dell Partner and they even pushed me to > get demo equipment going... What's the experience with their chassis switches? > Stability? Configuration sanity? What do people like? What do > people hate? > > Juniper. What do people like? What do people hate? Have the Layer 2 > issues of historical age gone away? Is the config still xml ish? It > has been about 5 years since I worked with anything Juniper. > > Extreme networks. I know very little about them historically. What > is good, what is bad? Is the config sane? > > I would be happy to compile any information I find, as well as our > sanitized internal conclusions. On and off list responses welcome. > > If there is another vendor anyone would suggest, please add them to > the list with similarly asked questions. > > Thanks! > > Blake**** > > > > **** > > ** ** > > -- **** > > Phil Fagan**** > > Denver, CO**** > > 970-480-7618**** > -- Phil Fagan Denver, CO 970-480-7618 ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2013 18:27:34 -0700 From: Mike Hale <eyeronic.design(a)gmail.com> To: Phil Fagan <philfagan(a)gmail.com> Cc: "NANOG \(nanog(a)nanog.org\)" <nanog(a)nanog.org> Subject: Re: Network Vendor suggestions/reviews, Arista Networks, Dell Force10, Juniper, Extreme Networks etc... Message-ID: <CAN3um4zC81=x8zc7_Q8e4Tr8bg1hMqEezX45qK5-=GOMVDe2pQ(a)mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 I'm exact opposite of Phil. I love IOS and hate JunOS....for that single reason, I'm really against buying Juniper in our shop for pretty much anything. :) Still, to be fair, the hardware seems to be really, really stable and well built. I don't think we've had a failure across our Junipers in the short time I've been with my day job. As far as support goes...the only time we had issues with our Nexus gear I was actually really, really disappointed with Cisco. We were upgrading our firmware, ran into some major issues with VPC and HSRP due some firmware changes, and the Tac engineer we got sucked *massive* lemons. When I call Tac with a situation like this, I expect someone who can code a working config from scratch based on the old config, not someone who's going to sit there scratching his head, running useless packet captures, and being silent when we ask questions. *sigh* /rant off On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 6:11 PM, Phil Fagan <philfagan(a)gmail.com> wrote: > I've had nothing but good luck with Juniper support and well with Cisco you > pay for support too. I will say Arista support was great, however, I'm > still hesitant to put them in full production; but I think that is lack of > experience with them speaking. > > Do the bake off in your lab and let'm run! > > > On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 6:31 PM, Blake Pfankuch - Mailing List < > blake.mailinglist(a)pfankuch.me> wrote: > >> Let me also clarify, Price per port is not the final deciding factor. >> We are looking much more at a combination of daily operational sanity, >> troubleshooting features, operational feature set, vendor support quality >> and price.**** >> >> ** ** >> >> Support is absolute key. When we need help, we need help quickly and >> knowledgeable support. The name checkpoint comes to mind when I think of >> something I DON?T want for support quality. It also causes nausea?**** >> >> ** ** >> >> Thanks,**** >> >> ** ** >> >> Blake**** >> >> ** ** >> >> *From:* Phil Fagan [mailto:philfagan@gmail.com] >> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 18, 2013 6:08 PM >> *To:* Blake Pfankuch - Mailing List >> *Cc:* NANOG (nanog(a)nanog.org) >> *Subject:* Re: Network Vendor suggestions/reviews, Arista Networks, Dell >> Force10, Juniper, Extreme Networks etc...**** >> >> ** ** >> >> I love JUNOS, don't really care for IOS. I really trust Cisco and >> Juniper's hardware, with that being said Arista is your best bet for >> cheapest port. I've only seen Arista in lab, not in the wild yet so I can't >> speak for how I would trust them. You mention getting bit by single sups, I >> believe as of late Arista has had issue with OSPF failover time between >> dual-sups in HA setups.**** >> >> ** ** >> >> I used to have a Dell laptop....but I'm sure their great too. In the end >> for me I only trust Cisco or Juniper. I've been burnt by Foundry and am >> waiting to on Arista. **** >> >> ** ** >> >> On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 5:53 PM, Blake Pfankuch - Mailing List < >> blake.mailinglist(a)pfankuch.me> wrote:**** >> >> Howdy, >> I have been working on a proposal for the organization I >> work for to move into the 10gbit datacenter. We have a small datacenter >> currently of about 1000 ports of 1gbit. We have traditionally been a full >> Cisco shop, however I was asked to do a price comparison as well as >> features with other major alternative vendors. I was also asked to do some >> digging as far as what "the real world" thinks about these possible vendors. >> >> We currently have 2 Cisco 6509's with 8 48 port cards Sup 3BXL, 2 Cisco >> 4506 with 5x 48 port card and Sup V's and 2 4900M switches providing 10gbit >> to a very specialized implementation. With all of our technology, we try >> to not be bleeding edge, but oozing edge. We need 5 9's or more of uptime >> yearly so stability is preferable to cool features. We currently have >> single supervisors in all of our switches (not my decision) and it has bit >> us recently. Everything we are looking at needs to support NSF/SSO/VSS of >> some kind. >> >> What we have been looking to replace it with in Cisco world is Nexus 7004 >> Core and Nexus 5596UP with 2200 series Fabric extenders for Dist/Access as >> well as 2200 Fabric Extenders within our Dell Blade Chassis. Realistically >> we will be under 800 ports of 10gbit (excluding Blades) which puts us in a >> tough spot from what I can find. Currently everything we have is EOR, >> however TOR would make more sense allowing us to switch to SFP+ twinax >> connectivity to servers. >> >> With this in mind, I have a few questions... >> >> It was mandated that I look at a company "Arista Networks" and investigate >> possible options. I had not heard much about them, so I look to the >> experts. Pro's and Con's? Real world experience? Looks to me they have a >> lot of cool features, but I'm slightly concerned with how new they might >> be, how reliable it would be as well as their QA/bugfix history. Also 24x4 >> support and hardware replacement. Everything in our datacenter currently >> has a 2 or 4 hour cisco contract on it and critical core components have a >> cold spare in inventory. >> >> Dell Force 10... I know Dell tries to get you to drink the Koolaid on this >> solution, I was a former Dell Partner and they even pushed me to get demo >> equipment going... What's the experience with their chassis switches? >> Stability? Configuration sanity? What do people like? What do people >> hate? >> >> Juniper. What do people like? What do people hate? Have the Layer 2 >> issues of historical age gone away? Is the config still xml ish? It has >> been about 5 years since I worked with anything Juniper. >> >> Extreme networks. I know very little about them historically. What is >> good, what is bad? Is the config sane? >> >> I would be happy to compile any information I find, as well as our >> sanitized internal conclusions. On and off list responses welcome. >> >> If there is another vendor anyone would suggest, please add them to the >> list with similarly asked questions. >> >> Thanks! >> >> Blake**** >> >> >> >> **** >> >> ** ** >> >> -- **** >> >> Phil Fagan**** >> >> Denver, CO**** >> >> 970-480-7618**** >> > > > > -- > Phil Fagan > Denver, CO > 970-480-7618 -- 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2013 20:14:18 -0600 From: Phil Fagan <philfagan(a)gmail.com> To: Mike Hale <eyeronic.design(a)gmail.com> Cc: "NANOG \(nanog(a)nanog.org\)" <nanog(a)nanog.org> Subject: Re: Network Vendor suggestions/reviews, Arista Networks, Dell Force10, Juniper, Extreme Networks etc... Message-ID: <CAPhg-wT=5_CeH3e9J2zo67TKMVYLmmx3fCWoDMxBV93csCfedQ(a)mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Mike brings up a good point though; the effort, cost, and risk of introducing a new CLI to an environment sometimes is masked until you really need to dig in and work through outages. Familiarity with a codebase or at least with how the code "thinks" should go a long way when deciding what to put in your racks. Of course, how do you quantify that? On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 7:27 PM, Mike Hale <eyeronic.design(a)gmail.com>wrote: > I'm exact opposite of Phil. I love IOS and hate JunOS....for that > single reason, I'm really against buying Juniper in our shop for > pretty much anything. :) > > Still, to be fair, the hardware seems to be really, really stable and > well built. I don't think we've had a failure across our Junipers in > the short time I've been with my day job. > > As far as support goes...the only time we had issues with our Nexus > gear I was actually really, really disappointed with Cisco. We were > upgrading our firmware, ran into some major issues with VPC and HSRP > due some firmware changes, and the Tac engineer we got sucked > *massive* lemons. When I call Tac with a situation like this, I > expect someone who can code a working config from scratch based on the > old config, not someone who's going to sit there scratching his head, > running useless packet captures, and being silent when we ask > questions. *sigh* > > /rant off > > On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 6:11 PM, Phil Fagan <philfagan(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > I've had nothing but good luck with Juniper support and well with Cisco > you > > pay for support too. I will say Arista support was great, however, I'm > > still hesitant to put them in full production; but I think that is lack > of > > experience with them speaking. > > > > Do the bake off in your lab and let'm run! > > > > > > On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 6:31 PM, Blake Pfankuch - Mailing List < > > blake.mailinglist(a)pfankuch.me> wrote: > > > >> Let me also clarify, Price per port is not the final deciding factor. > >> We are looking much more at a combination of daily operational sanity, > >> troubleshooting features, operational feature set, vendor support > quality > >> and price.**** > >> > >> ** ** > >> > >> Support is absolute key. When we need help, we need help quickly and > >> knowledgeable support. The name checkpoint comes to mind when I think > of > >> something I DON?T want for support quality. It also causes nausea?**** > >> > >> ** ** > >> > >> Thanks,**** > >> > >> ** ** > >> > >> Blake**** > >> > >> ** ** > >> > >> *From:* Phil Fagan [mailto:philfagan@gmail.com] > >> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 18, 2013 6:08 PM > >> *To:* Blake Pfankuch - Mailing List > >> *Cc:* NANOG (nanog(a)nanog.org) > >> *Subject:* Re: Network Vendor suggestions/reviews, Arista Networks, Dell > >> Force10, Juniper, Extreme Networks etc...**** > >> > >> ** ** > >> > >> I love JUNOS, don't really care for IOS. I really trust Cisco and > >> Juniper's hardware, with that being said Arista is your best bet for > >> cheapest port. I've only seen Arista in lab, not in the wild yet so I > can't > >> speak for how I would trust them. You mention getting bit by single > sups, I > >> believe as of late Arista has had issue with OSPF failover time between > >> dual-sups in HA setups.**** > >> > >> ** ** > >> > >> I used to have a Dell laptop....but I'm sure their great too. In the end > >> for me I only trust Cisco or Juniper. I've been burnt by Foundry and am > >> waiting to on Arista. **** > >> > >> ** ** > >> > >> On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 5:53 PM, Blake Pfankuch - Mailing List < > >> blake.mailinglist(a)pfankuch.me> wrote:**** > >> > >> Howdy, > >> I have been working on a proposal for the organization I > >> work for to move into the 10gbit datacenter. We have a small datacenter > >> currently of about 1000 ports of 1gbit. We have traditionally been a > full > >> Cisco shop, however I was asked to do a price comparison as well as > >> features with other major alternative vendors. I was also asked to do > some > >> digging as far as what "the real world" thinks about these possible > vendors. > >> > >> We currently have 2 Cisco 6509's with 8 48 port cards Sup 3BXL, 2 Cisco > >> 4506 with 5x 48 port card and Sup V's and 2 4900M switches providing > 10gbit > >> to a very specialized implementation. With all of our technology, we > try > >> to not be bleeding edge, but oozing edge. We need 5 9's or more of > uptime > >> yearly so stability is preferable to cool features. We currently have > >> single supervisors in all of our switches (not my decision) and it has > bit > >> us recently. Everything we are looking at needs to support NSF/SSO/VSS > of > >> some kind. > >> > >> What we have been looking to replace it with in Cisco world is Nexus > 7004 > >> Core and Nexus 5596UP with 2200 series Fabric extenders for Dist/Access > as > >> well as 2200 Fabric Extenders within our Dell Blade Chassis. > Realistically > >> we will be under 800 ports of 10gbit (excluding Blades) which puts us > in a > >> tough spot from what I can find. Currently everything we have is EOR, > >> however TOR would make more sense allowing us to switch to SFP+ twinax > >> connectivity to servers. > >> > >> With this in mind, I have a few questions... > >> > >> It was mandated that I look at a company "Arista Networks" and > investigate > >> possible options. I had not heard much about them, so I look to the > >> experts. Pro's and Con's? Real world experience? Looks to me they > have a > >> lot of cool features, but I'm slightly concerned with how new they might > >> be, how reliable it would be as well as their QA/bugfix history. Also > 24x4 > >> support and hardware replacement. Everything in our datacenter > currently > >> has a 2 or 4 hour cisco contract on it and critical core components > have a > >> cold spare in inventory. > >> > >> Dell Force 10... I know Dell tries to get you to drink the Koolaid on > this > >> solution, I was a former Dell Partner and they even pushed me to get > demo > >> equipment going... What's the experience with their chassis switches? > >> Stability? Configuration sanity? What do people like? What do people > >> hate? > >> > >> Juniper. What do people like? What do people hate? Have the Layer 2 > >> issues of historical age gone away? Is the config still xml ish? It > has > >> been about 5 years since I worked with anything Juniper. > >> > >> Extreme networks. I know very little about them historically. What is > >> good, what is bad? Is the config sane? > >> > >> I would be happy to compile any information I find, as well as our > >> sanitized internal conclusions. On and off list responses welcome. > >> > >> If there is another vendor anyone would suggest, please add them to the > >> list with similarly asked questions. > >> > >> Thanks! > >> > >> Blake**** > >> > >> > >> > >> **** > >> > >> ** ** > >> > >> -- **** > >> > >> Phil Fagan**** > >> > >> Denver, CO**** > >> > >> 970-480-7618**** > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > Phil Fagan > > Denver, CO > > 970-480-7618 > > > > -- > 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 > -- Phil Fagan Denver, CO 970-480-7618 ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2013 20:17:51 -0700 From: Brent Jones <brent(a)brentrjones.com> To: Blake Pfankuch - Mailing List <blake.mailinglist(a)pfankuch.me> Cc: "NANOG \(nanog(a)nanog.org\)" <nanog(a)nanog.org> Subject: Re: Network Vendor suggestions/reviews, Arista Networks, Dell Force10, Juniper, Extreme Networks etc... Message-ID: <CAOC=LuXYFJJ+xRUSQ50yfYrYtQA5uqBnAvxCB8+gwASpU5s7aw(a)mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 4:53 PM, Blake Pfankuch - Mailing List < blake.mailinglist(a)pfankuch.me> wrote: > Howdy, > I have been working on a proposal for the organization I > work for to move into the 10gbit datacenter. We have a small datacenter > currently of about 1000 ports of 1gbit. We have traditionally been a full > Cisco shop, however I was asked to do a price comparison as well as > features with other major alternative vendors. I was also asked to do some > digging as far as what "the real world" thinks about these possible vendors. > > We currently have 2 Cisco 6509's with 8 48 port cards Sup 3BXL, 2 Cisco > 4506 with 5x 48 port card and Sup V's and 2 4900M switches providing 10gbit > to a very specialized implementation. With all of our technology, we try > to not be bleeding edge, but oozing edge. We need 5 9's or more of uptime > yearly so stability is preferable to cool features. We currently have > single supervisors in all of our switches (not my decision) and it has bit > us recently. Everything we are looking at needs to support NSF/SSO/VSS of > some kind. > > What we have been looking to replace it with in Cisco world is Nexus 7004 > Core and Nexus 5596UP with 2200 series Fabric extenders for Dist/Access as > well as 2200 Fabric Extenders within our Dell Blade Chassis. Realistically > we will be under 800 ports of 10gbit (excluding Blades) which puts us in a > tough spot from what I can find. Currently everything we have is EOR, > however TOR would make more sense allowing us to switch to SFP+ twinax > connectivity to servers. > > With this in mind, I have a few questions... > > It was mandated that I look at a company "Arista Networks" and investigate > possible options. I had not heard much about them, so I look to the > experts. Pro's and Con's? Real world experience? Looks to me they have a > lot of cool features, but I'm slightly concerned with how new they might > be, how reliable it would be as well as their QA/bugfix history. Also 24x4 > support and hardware replacement. Everything in our datacenter currently > has a 2 or 4 hour cisco contract on it and critical core components have a > cold spare in inventory. > > Dell Force 10... I know Dell tries to get you to drink the Koolaid on this > solution, I was a former Dell Partner and they even pushed me to get demo > equipment going... What's the experience with their chassis switches? > Stability? Configuration sanity? What do people like? What do people > hate? > > Juniper. What do people like? What do people hate? Have the Layer 2 > issues of historical age gone away? Is the config still xml ish? It has > been about 5 years since I worked with anything Juniper. > > Extreme networks. I know very little about them historically. What is > good, what is bad? Is the config sane? > > I would be happy to compile any information I find, as well as our > sanitized internal conclusions. On and off list responses welcome. > > If there is another vendor anyone would suggest, please add them to the > list with similarly asked questions. > > Thanks! > > Blake > Coming from first hand experience, all network equipment vendors have strengths and weaknesses. Personally, I prefer the Junos CLI and ecosystem, but it is a learning curve, especially with a larger team who may not be familiar with it. But I found once I grasped the "Junos way", I'm significantly more productive with less errors, and "commit confirmed" is much better than Cisco comparable rollback methods. Juniper also offers several methods for automation: Junoscript/SLAX, Netconf, and now Puppet integration. I also have experience with Force10, and minor experience with Arista, both good vendors. They will be immieditely familiar to your team, since they use the same commands mostly. I find Juniper's virtual chassis to be among the better stacking technologies, but everyone has their own take. Force10 and Arista do really good multi-chassis LAG, as well as the Juniper QFX lineup. These days, vendors are really competitive on pricing and offerings, so you really can't go wrong :) -- Brent Jones brent(a)brentrjones.com End of NANOG Digest, Vol 65, Issue 74 ************************************* This message is private and confidential. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender and remove it from your system.

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Network Vendor suggestions/reviews, Arista Networks, Dell Force10, Juniper, Extreme Networks etc...
by Blake Pfankuch - Mailing List 19 Jun '13

19 Jun '13

Howdy, I have been working on a proposal for the organization I work for to move into the 10gbit datacenter. We have a small datacenter currently of about 1000 ports of 1gbit. We have traditionally been a full Cisco shop, however I was asked to do a price comparison as well as features with other major alternative vendors. I was also asked to do some digging as far as what "the real world" thinks about these possible vendors. We currently have 2 Cisco 6509's with 8 48 port cards Sup 3BXL, 2 Cisco 4506 with 5x 48 port card and Sup V's and 2 4900M switches providing 10gbit to a very specialized implementation. With all of our technology, we try to not be bleeding edge, but oozing edge. We need 5 9's or more of uptime yearly so stability is preferable to cool features. We currently have single supervisors in all of our switches (not my decision) and it has bit us recently. Everything we are looking at needs to support NSF/SSO/VSS of some kind. What we have been looking to replace it with in Cisco world is Nexus 7004 Core and Nexus 5596UP with 2200 series Fabric extenders for Dist/Access as well as 2200 Fabric Extenders within our Dell Blade Chassis. Realistically we will be under 800 ports of 10gbit (excluding Blades) which puts us in a tough spot from what I can find. Currently everything we have is EOR, however TOR would make more sense allowing us to switch to SFP+ twinax connectivity to servers. With this in mind, I have a few questions... It was mandated that I look at a company "Arista Networks" and investigate possible options. I had not heard much about them, so I look to the experts. Pro's and Con's? Real world experience? Looks to me they have a lot of cool features, but I'm slightly concerned with how new they might be, how reliable it would be as well as their QA/bugfix history. Also 24x4 support and hardware replacement. Everything in our datacenter currently has a 2 or 4 hour cisco contract on it and critical core components have a cold spare in inventory. Dell Force 10... I know Dell tries to get you to drink the Koolaid on this solution, I was a former Dell Partner and they even pushed me to get demo equipment going... What's the experience with their chassis switches? Stability? Configuration sanity? What do people like? What do people hate? Juniper. What do people like? What do people hate? Have the Layer 2 issues of historical age gone away? Is the config still xml ish? It has been about 5 years since I worked with anything Juniper. Extreme networks. I know very little about them historically. What is good, what is bad? Is the config sane? I would be happy to compile any information I find, as well as our sanitized internal conclusions. On and off list responses welcome. If there is another vendor anyone would suggest, please add them to the list with similarly asked questions. Thanks! Blake

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Re: [afnog] gTLDs opened up
by Randy Bush 19 Jun '13

19 Jun '13

> How is AFRINIC responsible of that? >> AfriNIC put these wonderful people on stage at the African Internet >> Summit. afrinic put them on the stage. it is said because you needed to fill slots in the program, but i really do not know why or care. randy

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Re: 10gig coast to coast
by Jakob Heitz 18 Jun '13

18 Jun '13

> Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2013 22:04:52 -0600 > From: Phil Fagan <philfagan(a)gmail.com> > ... you could always > thread the crap out of whatever it is your transactioning across the link > to make up for TCP's jackknifes... What is a TCP jackknife? Cheers. Jakob.

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Re: huawei (oscilloscopes and frequency analysis)
by Jazz Kenny 18 Jun '13

18 Jun '13

On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 7:38 AM, Tony Patti <tony(a)swalter.com> wrote: > Thanks, I liked your pointer to the SDR. > > But can I ask you for a bit more info about your statement > > "where oscilloscopes and frequency analysis is available to anyone with some > Google-fu" > > We don't need as much test equipment before? > > (as a guy with an oscilloscope in his basement, I don't see how Google can > do what that device can). > > > > Thanks, > > Tony All I meant was that the tools are relatively accessible to anyone with the desire to look - An oscilloscope with the necessary freq. range to study 4G communications can be bought or fabricated (all that's really needed is a microcontroller with an ADC, some gain amps and time), an appropriate SDR to intercept the signals shouldn't be too hard to source, and that community has been blowing up for a few years now. Hell, there are even a couple examples of LGA 4G receivers floating around in the wild (gtm801, for example). Ignoring all of that, there are commercial options like the YellowFin 4G analyzer. No idea how much one of those costs, though. Now, like Jay said, there are the issues of encryption and such, but that's just another barrier to entry. A little Google-fu could probably source a paper dealing with its implementation, at least. I doubt it would be easy, but if the motivation exists, the required test bed is easily assembled, and the information is available. Not like we're talking about intercepted military GPS bands or something. It's a consumer device that can sit on a workbench and be tested at the leisure of the security researcher. - J.

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Re: huawei
by Patrick W. Gilmore 18 Jun '13

18 Jun '13

On Jun 13, 2013, at 12:28 , "Avi Freedman" <avi(a)freedman.net> wrote: > I disagree. > > There have already been lab demos of sfps that could inject frames and APTs are pretty advanced, sinister, and can be hard to detect now. > > I'm not suggesting Huawei is or isn't enabling badness globally but I think it would be technically feasible. I am assuming a not-Hauwei-only network. The idea that a router could send things through other routers without someone who is looking for it noticing is ludicrous. Of course, most people aren't paying attention, a few extra frames wouldn't be noticed most likely. But if you are worried about it, you should be looking. Also, I find it difficult to believe Hauwei has the ability to do DPI or something inside their box and still route at reasonable speeds is a bit silly. Perhaps they only duplicate packets based on source/dest IP address or something that is magically messaged from the mother ship, but I am dubious. It should be trivial to prove to yourself the box is, or is not, doing something evil if you actually try. -- TTFN, patrick > ------Original Message------ > From: Patrick W. Gilmore > To: NANOG list > Subject: Re: huawei > Sent: Jun 13, 2013 12:22 PM > > On Jun 13, 2013, at 12:18 , Nick Khamis <symack(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> A local clec here in Canada just teamed up with this company to >> provide cell service to the north: >> >> http://cwta.ca/blog/2012/09/24/ice-wireless-iristel-and-huawei-partner-for-… >> >> Scary.... > > Why? > > Do you think Huawei has a magic ability to transmit data without you noticing? > > If you don't want to use Hauwei because they stole code or did other nasty things, I'm right there with you. If you believe a router can somehow magically duplicate info and transport it back to China (ignoring CT/CU's inability to have congestion free links), I think you are confused. > > -- > TTFN, > patrick > > >

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