October 2013 - Test - lists.nanog.org

RE: In Over My Head -- What do I need to setup a tiny ISP?
by sandy＠tislabs.com 21 Oct '13

21 Oct '13

> I'm hoping the great gurus on this site can advise me on what needs to=20 > be put together ( infrastructure, AAA, billing, etc) for this to run? No one has yet pointed you to the Network Startup Resource Center http://www.nsrc.org/about.html or AfNOG http://www.afnog.org which might be good resources. --Sandy

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In Over My Head -- What do I need to setup a tiny ISP?
by Notify Me 21 Oct '13

21 Oct '13

Hi, Please allow me to apologize profusely if my post is offensive, or in error. I have been lurking on this list watching and learning from all the great posts here and am in awe of everyone here. I can only hope one day to be as knowledgeable as anyone on this list. That being said, some people who have a lot more faith in my abilities than I do seem to think I am the go-to guy for network information. And they foolishly asked me for assistance in putting together a small ISP network which is supposed to cater for home users inside of a residential area, very likely wireless (wifi/WIMAX). I have no idea what the nuts and bolts of this kind of setup are. All I have in my toolbox are some hastily learnt CCNA lingo, a good knowledge of networks, system and network admin experience, and a deep love of open source software. I'm hoping the great gurus on this site can advise me on what needs to be put together ( infrastructure, AAA, billing, etc) for this to run? I confess I am really interested in helping my questioners put this together, not just for whatever material gain (which is unlikely at this point), but just for the experience which is very valuable to me. I also have to state that I live in Nigeria, so whatever advice you offer has to be fourth-world applicable. I humbly await your kind responses, and I apologize once again if I am in error. Thanks for listening!

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Re: Need understand...
by Randy Bush 21 Oct '13

21 Oct '13

feeling a little st00pid here. randy --- psg.com:/usr/home/randy> whois www.facebook.com. Whois Server Version 2.0 Domain names in the .com and .net domains can now be registered with many different competing registrars. Go to http://www.internic.net for detailed information. Server Name: WWW.FACEBOOK.COM.BR Registrar: UNIVERSO ONLINE S/A (UOL) Whois Server: whois.host.uol.com.br Referral URL: http://http://www.uol.com.br/host >>> Last update of whois database: Mon, 21 Oct 2013 14:28:17 UTC <<< NOTICE: The expiration date displayed in this record is the date the registrar's sponsorship of the domain name registration in the registry is currently set to expire. This date does not necessarily reflect the expiration date of the domain name registrant's agreement with the sponsoring registrar. Users may consult the sponsoring registrar's Whois database to view the registrar's reported date of expiration for this registration. TERMS OF USE: You are not authorized to access or query our Whois database through the use of electronic processes that are high-volume and automated except as reasonably necessary to register domain names or modify existing registrations; the Data in VeriSign Global Registry Services' ("VeriSign") Whois database is provided by VeriSign for information purposes only, and to assist persons in obtaining information about or related to a domain name registration record. VeriSign does not guarantee its accuracy. By submitting a Whois query, you agree to abide by the following terms of use: You agree that you may use this Data only for lawful purposes and that under no circumstances will you use this Data to: (1) allow, enable, or otherwise support the transmission of mass unsolicited, commercial advertising or solicitations via e-mail, telephone, or facsimile; or (2) enable high volume, automated, electronic processes that apply to VeriSign (or its computer systems). The compilation, repackaging, dissemination or other use of this Data is expressly prohibited without the prior written consent of VeriSign. You agree not to use electronic processes that are automated and high-volume to access or query the Whois database except as reasonably necessary to register domain names or modify existing registrations. VeriSign reserves the right to restrict your access to the Whois database in its sole discretion to ensure operational stability. VeriSign may restrict or terminate your access to the Whois database for failure to abide by these terms of use. VeriSign reserves the right to modify these terms at any time. The Registry database contains ONLY .COM, .NET, .EDU domains and Registrars. % UOL HOST whois server Searching for www.facebook.com. No records matching www.facebook.com found. psg.com:/usr/home/randy> whois -h whois.lacnic.net. facebook.com. % LACNIC resource: whois.lacnic.net % Copyright LACNIC lacnic.net % The data below is provided for information purposes % and to assist persons in obtaining information about or % related to AS and IP numbers registrations % By submitting a whois query, you agree to use this data % only for lawful purposes. % 2013-10-21 12:29:25 (BRST -02:00) % No match for "FACEBOOK.COM." % whois.lacnic.net accepts only direct match queries. % Types of queries are: POCs, ownerid, CIDR blocks, IP % and AS numbers. psg.com:/usr/home/randy> whois -h whois.lacnic.net. www.facebook.com. % LACNIC resource: whois.lacnic.net % Copyright LACNIC lacnic.net % The data below is provided for information purposes % and to assist persons in obtaining information about or % related to AS and IP numbers registrations % By submitting a whois query, you agree to use this data % only for lawful purposes. % 2013-10-21 12:29:36 (BRST -02:00) % No match for "WWW.FACEBOOK.COM." % whois.lacnic.net accepts only direct match queries. % Types of queries are: POCs, ownerid, CIDR blocks, IP % and AS numbers.

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NANOG Pager : Captain Zappos, white courtesy phone. Captain Zappos eng?
by jamie rishaw 21 Oct '13

21 Oct '13

.. No, the white one. </Airplane! reference> In all seriousness - Any engs from Zappos? Please contact me off list TYVM -jamie

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Pad 1310nm cross-connects?
by Chris Costa 20 Oct '13

20 Oct '13

What are the opinions/views on attenuating short, 1310nm LR cross-connects. Assume < 20m cable length and utilizing the same vendor optics on each side of the link. Considering the LR transmit spec doesn't exceed the receiver's high threshold value do you pad the receiver closer to the median RX range to avoid potential receiver burnout over time, or just leave it un-padded? Thanks

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Re: abha ahuja
by Larry Sheldon 20 Oct '13

20 Oct '13

On 10/20/2013 12:18 PM, Marco Davids wrote: > Op 20-10-13 00:36, Randy Bush schreef: >> abha ahuja, researcher and operator, died this day in 2001 > All these dear people that have passed away... Makes you think about > your own mortality, doesn't it? > > And the list isn't going to get shorter, I am afraid. Kinda depressing... > > Perhaps we should create a special remembrance day, once a year, where > we remember all of them? > And carry on with joy on all other days. FWIIW: I believe that a day to honor everybody is a day that honors nobody. -- Requiescas in pace o email Two identifying characteristics of System Administrators: Ex turpi causa non oritur actio Infallibility, and the ability to learn from their mistakes. (Adapted from Stephen Pinker)

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Re: Pad 1310nm cross-connects?
by Brandon Butterworth 20 Oct '13

20 Oct '13

> LR usually needs padding in that scenario, IMHO. Usually does not. 1G parts are so cheap that measurement, test and the attenuators (unless you are wrapping the fibre round a pencil) will cost more than each device is worth. How many fail? If in doubt check the device spec such as http://www.cisco.com/en/US/prod/collateral/modules/ps5455/data_sheet_c78-45…. html Transmit Power (dBm) Receive Power (dBm) Maximum Minimum Maximum Minimum Cisco SFP-10G-LR 0.5 -8.2 0.5 -14.4 the max levels are the same so for that part they are designed to be fine without even the loss of a minimal interconnect. > This also > applies to MMR interconnects or other "premises" / "campus" situations. 5 > or 10dB depending on patching quality -- sometimes up to 15 15 would take the above device out of spec, even 5 is marginal with typical MMR cross connects. Over its lfe the tx output may drop and still be within spec so you can't base this on measured when installed levels. > As you write, the damage from overload is gradual, so simply > trusting "it works" is quite bad for longevity reasons. If it's operating within spec then return the parts if there is a significant failure rate attributable (what temperature are you running them at, that would need to be considered in any statistically significant study) If you have evidence of level affecting longevity as described please post the data or paper demonstrating it which should then let us choose the optimum signal level for maximum life with a reasonable operating margin brandon

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Re: In Over My Head -- What do I need to setup a tiny ISP?
by Miles Fidelman 20 Oct '13

20 Oct '13

Notify Me wrote: > > That being said, some people who have a lot more faith in my abilities than > I do seem to think I am the go-to guy for network information. And they > foolishly asked me for assistance in putting together a small ISP network > which is supposed to cater for home users inside of a residential area, > very likely wireless (wifi/WIMAX). > A key question: is this going to be a commercial service run as a business, or an internal operation like a campus network? The operations aren't that different, but the scope and organiation can be different. Another key question: Are you focusing just on the infrastructure (wireless IP) or will you be providing email, hosting services, and so forth? > I confess I am really interested in helping my questioners put this > together, not just for whatever material gain (which is unlikely at this > point), but just for the experience which is very valuable to me. I also > have to state that I live in Nigeria, so whatever advice you offer has to > be fourth-world applicable. > > I admit that your query raised my interest, so I did a little looking, and found this: http://www.fnbc.info/sites/default/files/fck-uploads/file/fntc/ISP%20Guide%… A guide put together by the "First Nations Technology Council" - on how to put together an ISP on tribal lands in Canada - which might be somewhat analogous to your situation. It's somewhat basic, but gives an overview - then you can start looking into the individual topics it talks about. You might drop them an email. There's also been a lot of work on US tribal reservations that might apply - you'll have to do some googling to find resources. Now the guy you really want to talk to is Dave Hughes, of Big Sky Telegraph - who used to do a lot of network building for rural areas in the US and remote areas around the world - unfortunately he's long retired - but two sources you could look at that might give you a lot of background: http://www.bigskytelegraph.com/ (which now seems to lead to the Dillon Center of Excellence, focusing on best practices for rural America, including networking) and http://www.davehugheslegacy.net/ There used to be an "Association for Community Networking" - folks involved in building cooperative local networks (used to be a lot of what I was involved in the 1990s) but that kind of activity has dried up as more and more commercial players entered the market. And an "Organization for Community Networks" (http://ofcn.org/) - but their web site seems to be kind of dead (some useful links, though). If you google "community network" you'll find a buch of current operations - and you might want to contact some of them. There are also a growing number of community mesh networks in various places - WikiPedia's page on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wireless_community_network might be a good starting point. There's also an association of wireless ISPs http://www.wispa.org/ Then there's this guy: https://www.facebook.com/theispguy - who seems to have written a book on "so you want to be an ISP" - can't say anything about how good it is. Or.. you might just go looking for other ISPs in Nigeria (of which there are quite a few) and see if you can get some advice (amazing what you can learn over a few beers). Maybe contact the networking people at the nearest college or university. I don't know what it's like in Nigeria, but in the US, the academic community was really active in getting a lot of early ISPs started - particularly in smaller communities. One other thought: there are quite a few software packages floating around for managing aspects of ISP operations (see https://wiki.debian.org/HostingControlPanels for starters) - I expect their user communities (and email lists) would be excellent sources of information. Hope this helps. Regards, Miles Fidelman -- In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. .... Yogi Berra

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FTTH for cable companies
by Jean-Francois Mezei 19 Oct '13

19 Oct '13

I need a reality check... For telcos, going from barely twisted copper pair to FTTH presents huge incremental improvement. FTTN is basically a stop gap medium term solution that is more pleasing to some beancounters. However, for a cable company, is there an advantage to deploy FTTH/GPON to bring light originally destined to the neighbourhood node all the way to the home and do away with coax ? >From what I have read, cablecos limit FTTH deployments to greenfields. Do they save much by replaciung the "node" with a simple optical splitter which no longer limits how much upstream bandwidth is retransmitted back to head end ? Will there be a point in the next 10 years where cable companies might start to upgrade brownfields from coax to FTTH as some telcos have done ? While in Canada, FTTH deployment by telcos has been accompanied with IPTV deployments on the data path (single wavelength), I hear that Verizon has used twin wavelengths, on for GPON data, and one for RFoG for TV signals. Would it be fair to state that FIOS is basically identical to FTTH deployments by cable companies ? Do twin wavelength systems as deployed by Verizon end up costing far more ? Or is the price difference mininal ? Any information/insight appreciated.

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ARIN Meetings – Weigh In on Future Format (till this Friday!)
by John Curran 19 Oct '13

19 Oct '13

NANOGers - ARIN is considering the appropriate frequency and format of ARIN’s Public Policy and Members Meetings, and if you have any thoughts in this area, then it would be helpful if you could complete a short survey (which is open to both ARIN and NANOG communities) until Friday 25 October 2013. See the attached announcement for more details! Thanks! /John John Curran President and CEO ARIN Begin forwarded message: From: ARIN <info(a)arin.net<mailto:info@arin.net>> Subject: [arin-announce] ARIN Meetings – Weigh In on Future Format Date: October 9, 2013 12:31:13 AM GMT+09:00 To: <arin-announce(a)arin.net<mailto:arin-announce@arin.net>> The ARIN Board of Trustees is discussing the appropriate frequency and format of ARIN’s Public Policy and Members Meetings. Traditionally and through 2014 ARIN is scheduled to hold two per year, one conjoined with NANOG in Q3 of the year. Please take a few minutes to respond to the short meeting survey and let us know your opinion….what is the correct mix that would encourage your new or increased participation? This survey is open to the ARIN and NANOG communities, and also to those who are not currently active in either organization. https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/future_meetings The survey will remain open until Friday 25 October. Regards, Communications and Member Services American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN) _______________________________________________ ARIN-Announce You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN Announce Mailing List (ARIN-announce(a)arin.net) Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-announce Please contact info(a)arin.net if you experience any issues.

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