September 2010 - Test - lists.nanog.org

US hunters shoot down Google fibre
by Eugen Leitl 21 Sep '10

21 Sep '10

http://www.itnews.com.au/News/232831,us-hunters-shoot-down-google-fibre.aspx Repairers forced to ski in to Oregon back woods. Google has revealed that aerial fibre links to its data centre in Oregon were "regularly" shot down by hunters, forcing the company to put its cables underground. The search and advertising giant's network engineering manager Vijay Gill told the AusNOG conference in Sydney last week that people were trying to hit insulators on electricity distribution poles. The poles also hosted aerially-deployed fibre connected to Google's $US600 million ($A635 million) data centre in the Dalles, a small city on the Columbia River in the US state of Oregon. "What people do for sport or because they're bored, they try to shoot at the insulators," Gill said. "I have yet to see them actually hit the insulator, but they regularly shoot down the fibre. "Every November when hunting season starts invariably we know that the fibre will be shot down, so much so that we are now building an underground path [for it]." Gill said that on one occasion, a snowstorm and avalanche prevented Google from transporting repairers and gear into the area of the cut. It usually used a helicopter or a Caterpillar D9 tractor for transport. It improvised by sending three technicians on skis to "repair the fibre that got shot down". "These guys had to cross country ski for three days," Gill said. "[One guy] is carrying what is known as a fusion splicing kit on his backpack." He joked: "These guys had to go in and fix the fibre while facing gunshots "So [the] internet... [it's] more dangerous than you realise."

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RE: US hunters shoot down Google fibre
by Michael K. Smith - Adhost 21 Sep '10

21 Sep '10

> -----Original Message----- > From: Reese [mailto:reese@inkworkswell.com] > Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2010 12:36 PM > To: nanog(a)nanog.org > Subject: Re: US hunters shoot down Google fibre > > At 11:39 21 09 10, Leslie wrote: > > >I don't think anyone is claiming all hunters/gun owners are irresponsible, > > Re-read the article. "[h]unters" it said, not "some hunters" or > "irresponsible hunters". How broad must the brush be, before you > feel personally impugned and maligned? > > >but, as with any segment of the population, when you have a large > >group there will be a percentage of complete idiots out there who > >take stupid actions. > > I acknowledged that. I regret its truthiness. But with Google and > only Google as a named victim of the hardware DoS, I have yet to > read anything that convinces me that it was not corporate sabotage. > > My point was not that wires and insulators do not get shot or shot > at, but that "hunters" was a convenient excuse that other things > could be too-conveniently classified with. > > Who, here, hunts? Shoot at wires and insulators on towers, do you? > > Reese > > I live in Washington State and have managed a fiber network along paths similar to the ones being taken by Google. Every winter we had at least 4 shotgun-blast outages, sometimes in the middle of nowhere and sometimes with a direct line of site to the back porch of a local "manufactured home". You would be amazed at what people find fun with during a long, cold winter and a belly full of libations. And I can almost guarantee you it wasn't sabotage. In many cases, the revelers were shooting at power lines and happened to hit the fibers wrapped around the ground wire. These are 500 kV lines by the way. Long story short, you can't account for stupid. Mike -- Michael K. Smith - CISSP, GSEC, GISP Chief Technical Officer - Adhost Internet LLC mksmith(a)adhost.com w: +1 (206) 404-9500 f: +1 (206) 404-9050 PGP: B49A DDF5 8611 27F3 08B9 84BB E61E 38C0 (Key ID: 0x9A96777D)

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Did Internet Founders Actually Anticipate Paid, Prioritized Traffic?
by Hank Nussbacher 21 Sep '10

21 Sep '10

http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2010/09/paid-prioritized-traffic -Hank

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Re: US hunters shoot down Google fibre
by Leslie 21 Sep '10

21 Sep '10

> > I don't want to start an off-topic subthread but I have to call > bullshit on this so-called "news" story. So it is my intent that > this be my first, last, and only post on this topic. > > Was it addressed at NANOG (in SF?) that many rifles and amateur > shooters both, are capable of sub-MOA accuracy at short distances? > By short, I mean ~50 yards or less. > > Or that a hunter with even modest self-training, who was aiming at > an insulator with a properly sighted-in rifle at short range, has > a significantly greater probability of hitting the insulator being > aimed at than of hitting the supported wire? That wasn't addressed > in the buttwipe propaganda from down under. Need I remind anyone of > the Dunblane and Port Arthur incidents and the subsequent gun control > crackdowns in each of those countries. I wouldn't expect any crown- > influenced news agency to give issues involving our Second Amendment > a fair shake. Just like I don't expect logic or sanity from the Brady > Campaign on the 2A issue. Nor should anyone else. The story smacks of > deliberately painting hunters as irresponsible ruffians and worse. > > What sort of repair rates do the power or other companies running > wire across that expanse contend with? Given the remoteness, the > identity of the affected client (Google) and the apparent absence of > additional information, corporate sabotage seems just-as or even-more > probable than random irresponsible hunters. To be fair, some shooters > are irresponsible, but deliberate sabotage cannot be ruled out with > only the information currently available. In my experience, there's really two types of shootings (which really depend on the region) -- Number one is using shotguns, not rifles, and bird hunting - for example when goose hunting season happens, you'll see fiber shot out over lakes/rivers more often - I think this is both bad aim and not really caring. (Occasionally the shot will even be stuck in the lines or insulation so you can tell it was a shotgun) The second is drunk idiots shooting at the lines - this is more universal and happens closer to civilization. Power companies will also have repair issues with either of these, but fiber, phone, and cable lines are more likely as they are lower to the ground due to regulations that state they have to be at least X feet away from the power lines. I don't think anyone is claiming all hunters/gun owners are irresponsible, but, as with any segment of the population, when you have a large group there will be a percentage of complete idiots out there who take stupid actions. As for the 2nd amendment stuff - I'm not touching that one with a 10 foot fiber ;) Leslie

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Re: US hunters shoot down Google fibre
by Tony Finch 21 Sep '10

21 Sep '10

On Tue, 21 Sep 2010, Reese wrote: > > I don't want to start an off-topic subthread but I have to call > bullshit on this so-called "news" story. Several years ago I heard of a Swiss ISP having the same problem. They built their network by running fibre along the earth conductor of high voltage transmission lines (like Energis in the UK). I was told that it was common for hunters to verify the setting of their sights by shooting at the lines. Tony. -- f.anthony.n.finch <dot(a)dotat.at> http://dotat.at/ HUMBER THAMES DOVER WIGHT PORTLAND: NORTH BACKING WEST OR NORTHWEST, 5 TO 7, DECREASING 4 OR 5, OCCASIONALLY 6 LATER IN HUMBER AND THAMES. MODERATE OR ROUGH. RAIN THEN FAIR. GOOD.

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Cisco 6509/6513 cable management...
by Positively Optimistic 21 Sep '10

21 Sep '10

Do any of our fellow nanog members have experience with cable management on 6509/6513 cisco switches? We're upgrading infrastructure in some of our facilities,.. and until it came to cable management, the switches seemed to be a great idea... 8 48port blades.. pose a challenge.. or a problem.. Pictures are welcomed... off-list contact would be great. Thanks

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Re: US hunters shoot down Google fibre
by Reese 21 Sep '10

21 Sep '10

At 09:19 21 09 10, Christopher Morrow wrote: >this was presented at the nanog in ... SF I think as well: ><http://www.nanog.org/meetings/nanog49/abstracts.php?pt=MTU5NSZuYW5vZzQ5&nm=…> > >not really news... > >On Tue, Sep 21, 2010 at 6:04 AM, Eugen Leitl <eugen(a)leitl.org> wrote: > > > > > <http://www.itnews.com.au/News/232831,us-hunters-shoot-down-google-fibre.aspx> I don't want to start an off-topic subthread but I have to call bullshit on this so-called "news" story. So it is my intent that this be my first, last, and only post on this topic. Was it addressed at NANOG (in SF?) that many rifles and amateur shooters both, are capable of sub-MOA accuracy at short distances? By short, I mean ~50 yards or less. Or that a hunter with even modest self-training, who was aiming at an insulator with a properly sighted-in rifle at short range, has a significantly greater probability of hitting the insulator being aimed at than of hitting the supported wire? That wasn't addressed in the buttwipe propaganda from down under. Need I remind anyone of the Dunblane and Port Arthur incidents and the subsequent gun control crackdowns in each of those countries. I wouldn't expect any crown- influenced news agency to give issues involving our Second Amendment a fair shake. Just like I don't expect logic or sanity from the Brady Campaign on the 2A issue. Nor should anyone else. The story smacks of deliberately painting hunters as irresponsible ruffians and worse. What sort of repair rates do the power or other companies running wire across that expanse contend with? Given the remoteness, the identity of the affected client (Google) and the apparent absence of additional information, corporate sabotage seems just-as or even-more probable than random irresponsible hunters. To be fair, some shooters are irresponsible, but deliberate sabotage cannot be ruled out with only the information currently available. Reese

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Twitter web interface exploit ...
by Jorge Amodio 21 Sep '10

21 Sep '10

Don't believe it will create any network waves but just FYI, history reached mainstream media http://www.cnn.com/2010/TECH/social.media/09/21/twitter.security.flaw/index… According to the birdy folks the exploit is being patched right now. J

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financial peering?
by Ryan Finnesey 21 Sep '10

21 Sep '10

Does anyone know if there is a peering point setup to pass traffic to credit card processes such as First Data and or the ATM interexchange networks? Cheers Ryan

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[NANOG-announce] Final agenda posted for NANOG 50
by David Meyer 20 Sep '10

20 Sep '10

Folks, The agenda for NANOG 50 has been updated. The agenda looks very good and we are looking forward to seeing you all in Atlanta. Please note that tomorrow (09/21) is the last day before late registration kicks in. So please register tomorrow if you haven't already. Looking forward to Atlanta, Dave (for the NANOG PC) _______________________________________________ NANOG-announce mailing list NANOG-announce(a)nanog.org https://mailman.nanog.org/mailman/listinfo/nanog-announce

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