March 2010 - Test - lists.nanog.org

Re: RE: Inside plant 10G fiber specs?
by Frank A. Coluccio 17 Mar '10

17 Mar '10

re: "The grief caused over the long run by having more installed MMF plant, especially as you try to move to 10G speeds and beyond, is IMHO not worth the relatively small short term cost optimization." A good point, which becomes particularly germane moving forward. According to a TIA presentation I attended today, a 40G link will require eight (8) strands of 8MMF. And the way things look now, a 100Gbps link will require twenty (20) strands of MMF. Neither is likely to reach beyond 100 to 150 meters max. A single pair of SMF will suffice for both and cover eminently greater distances. Until now the tradeoffs have been a no-brainer, favoring MMF. But as the number of strands begin to add bulk and handling issues and the price points continue to fall for SMF at 10G and above, it will become more trying to decide. Incidentally, there's a couple of good pieces in the March 2010 issue of Lightwave Mag on the subject of falling prices of Photonic Integrated Circuits (PICs) at 10G and above, and one on advancements being made in Planar chips as well on pp 6 and 24, respectively,' here: [1]http://online.qmags.com/LW0310/Default.aspx?sessionID=43F4572DBED1C1 526DB2E9CBB&cid=218039&eid=14800#pg1 Frank --- ras(a)e-gerbil.net wrote: From: Richard A Steenbergen <ras(a)e-gerbil.net> To: Jeff Kell <Jeff-Kell(a)utc.edu> Cc: nanog(a)nanog.org Subject: Re: RE: Inside plant 10G fiber specs? Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 00:39:39 -0500 On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 10:15:51PM -0400, Jeff Kell wrote: > And a follow-up to my original question... > > I'm reading the Cisco SFP GBIC-SH spec for 50u OM3 and it shows a > rating of 1000m? Really? That's better than the LH rating over the > same fiber (550m)? Hi Jeff, I don't know of any optics with a 1km reach over MMF at either 1G or 10G rates. Over OM3 fiber you can get ~260-300 meters of 10G, over older MMF you can potentially get much less, it depends on the exact signal you're trying to pass. Yes you can get 550 meters with 1G LX over MMF, but the MMF itself is ultimately what is limiting you. I recently did a NANOG presentation on some of this, you may want to take a look at: http://www.nanog.org/meetings/nanog48/presentations/Sunday/RAS_opticaln et_N48.pdf Personally my take on this particular problem is to stop doing MMF runs and standardize on SMF where possible. If you do any amount of shopping at all you can find optics for SMF which are barely any more expensive than optics for MMF, especially if you're only talking about 1GE or 10G SFP+. The grief caused over the long run by having more installed MMF plant, especially as you try to move to 10G speeds and beyond, is IMHO not worth the relatively small short term cost optimization. -- Richard A Steenbergen <ras(a)e-gerbil.net> http://www.e-gerbil.net/ras GPG Key ID: 0xF8B12CBC (7535 7F59 8204 ED1F CC1C 53AF 4C41 5ECA F8B1 2CBC) References 1. http://online.qmags.com/LW0310/Default.aspx?sessionID=43F4572DBED1C1526DB2E…

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Mail List Test
by Chris Gotstein 16 Mar '10

16 Mar '10

Haven't gotten a message through the NANOG mailing list for a week or so now. Seeing if this works. -- ---- ---- ---- ---- Chris Gotstein, Sr Network Engineer, UP Logon/Computer Connection UP http://uplogon.com | +1 906 774 4847 | chris(a)uplogon.com

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IPv6, multihoming, and customer allocations
by Rick Ernst 16 Mar '10

16 Mar '10

A couple of different incantations searching the archive didn't enlighten me, and I find it hard to believe this hasn't been discussed. Apologies and a request for pointers if I'm rehashing an old question. As a small/regional ISP, we got our /32 assigned and it's time to start moving forward (customers are asking for it). New hardware, updated IOS, etc. are in the pipe. Discussions are beginning with our upstream providers for peering. Now, what do we do? A /48 seems to be the standard end-user/multi-homed customer allocation and is the minimum allocation size from ARIN. A /32 provides 65K /48s so, in theory, we could give each of our customers a /48 and still have room for growth. A /48 also appears to be generally accepted as the the longest prefix allowed through filters (although /49 through /54 are also discussed). Most customers, however, won't be multi-homed. Partly from an IPv4 scarcity perspective, and partly from general efficiency and thrift, it seems awfully silly to hand out /48s to somebody that may have a handful of servers or a couple of home machines, especially with special addressing like link-local if the hosts are not expected to be internet reachable (back-end servervs, etc). Based on the above, I'm looking to establish some initial policies to save grief in the future: - /52 allocations to end-users (residential, soho, etc.) - /48 allocations to those that request it - If you are going to multi-home, get your own space This is obviously a very broad brush and takes an insanely large addressing model and makes it even larger (assigning /52s instead of /48s) but, to me at least, it seems reasonable for a first-pass. For context/scope, we currently have the equivalent of a bit more than the equivalent of a /16 (IPv4) in use. Thanks,

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Newedge USA LLC Contact?
by Matt Simmons 16 Mar '10

16 Mar '10

We're having a problem routing traffic to Newedge USA (www.newedge.com) from our primary and secondary sites. If there's anyone from that group on this list, could you contact me off-list? Thanks very much, --Matt -- LITTLE GIRL: But which cookie will you eat FIRST? COOKIE MONSTER: Me think you have misconception of cookie-eating process. COOKIE MONSTER: Boy, I wish I were a sysadmin so I could go to the NJ-PICC Sysadmin Conference! http://www.picconf.org

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peer1 contact
by Andrew Young 16 Mar '10

16 Mar '10

Could someone from peer1 noc contact me off thread. Got a issue and could use some help. Thanks! Andrew Young Network Engineer Voxel Dot Net

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Yahoo Mail Admin
by Matt Baldwin 16 Mar '10

16 Mar '10

Hi: Can a Yahoo! mail admin please contact me off-list, please? Tnx. -matt

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RE: Network Naming Conventions
by Frank A. Coluccio 16 Mar '10

16 Mar '10

On-net we use law enforcement agency names, and for those off-net we use the names of reigning mafia families in NFL cities and South American drug cartels. --- MAdcock(a)hisna.com wrote: From: "Adcock, Matt [HISNA]" <MAdcock(a)hisna.com> To: "Ravi Pina" <ravi(a)cow.org>, "Randy Bush" <randy(a)psg.com> Cc: nanog(a)nanog.org Subject: RE: Network Naming Conventions Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 06:10:40 -0700 I've used a Jimmy Buffett theme in test labs before. Matt Adcock, Manager 334-481-6629 (w) / 334-312-5393 (m) / MAdcock(a)hisna.com 700 Hyundai Blvd. / Montgomery, AL 36105 P The average office worker uses 10,000 sheets of paper = 1.2 trees, per year By not printing this email, you’ve saved paper, ink and millions of trees From: Ravi Pina [mailto:ravi@cow.org] Sent: Sat 3/13/2010 3:33 PM To: Randy Bush Cc: nanog(a)nanog.org Subject: Re: Network Naming Conventions On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 04:58:11AM +0900, Randy Bush wrote: > > On my last network I named all the routers after simpsons characters. > > scaled well? Don't forget there were 5 Snowballs... The information in this email and any attachments are for the sole use of the intended recipient and may contain privileged and confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, disclosure, copying or distribution of this message or attachment is strictly prohibited. We have taken precautions to minimize the risk of transmitting software viruses, but we advise you to carry out your own virus checks on any attachment to this message. We cannot accept liability for any loss or damage caused by software viruses. If you believe that you have received this email in error, please contact the sender immediately and delete the email and all of its attachments

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Need some info about "Clean pipe"
by sakthi vadivel 16 Mar '10

16 Mar '10

Hi, Is there any one has idea about what is "clean pipe" ? what exactly upstream providers do using this term " clean pipe"? whether would it add any latency in the traffic flow ? Please if you have any link or draft , please share it. Planning to implement it in our peering pipes ? thanks and regards, sakthi

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Re: RE: Inside plant 10G fiber specs?
by Jeff Kell 16 Mar '10

16 Mar '10

And a follow-up to my original question... I'm reading the Cisco SFP GBIC-SH spec for 50u OM3 and it shows a rating of 1000m? Really? That's better than the LH rating over the same fiber (550m)? Jeff

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Inside plant 10G fiber specs?
by Jeff Kell 15 Mar '10

15 Mar '10

I am working up network specs for a new building, and trying to accomodate a 10G distribution from the start. The safe bet of running singlemode everywhere doesn't quite fit due to cost of the optics and the need for multimode for some other (non-network) devices anyway. We have a legacy 62.5u/MM campus, inside and out. The 100M to 1G transition led to some outside plant singlemode additions due to length restrictions on MM (even with conditioned LH optics), but the inside plant gig was fine with multimode (typically SH optics). 10G appears to break the inside 62.5u/MM fit, with the addition that there is no option of "LH over MM" for the little extra push beyond the SH limit that worked with 1G optics. Cisco's references give 10G SH over 62.5u/MM at 26m or 33m, depending on the "modal bandwidth" of the fiber. At those distances it is of little benefit except some limited vertical risers. 10G over 50u/MM looks better, depending on the "modal bandwidth" of the fiber (66m, 82m, 300m). So, a couple of questions... (1) Do you have a good vendor specification (or sample cables) for multistrand 50u/MM suitable for the 2000Mhz/km (300m) advertised reach? (2) Inter-operability issues with legacy equipment where we have always used 62.5? We have at least two alarm half-duplex loops over 62.5 that will have to "mate" with devices in this building... if I can avoid running both types MM that would be great. (3) Any other considerations or words of advice would be welcomed. Thanks in advance. Jeff

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