March 2008 - Test - lists.nanog.org

Re: rack power question
by Paul Vixie 25 Mar '08

25 Mar '08

Matthew Crocker <mcrocker(a)crocker.com> wrote: > Seal off the room so you can control your replacement air source. Put a > series of cyclone dust collectors (think huge Dyson Vacuum) on your inbound > air. > > http://www.proventilation.com/products/ProductsView.asp?page=1&gclid=CKyD04… neat stuff. isc's neighbor has got one of these (for an industrial process). they are noisy, and not 100% duty cycle rated, but it's an interesting idea. > Then distribute your air through some electrostatic dust collectors > > http://www.dustcollectorexperts.com/electrostatic/ two of the ESP Disadvantages listed on that page are fatal in my application: o High initial cost o Materials with very high or low resistivity are difficult to collect however, this page also mentions "baghouse" filters, which i'd also heard in a private reply, and am now investigating. > Then run it through HEPA filters. :-). my servers don't have asthma. HEPA is hellishly expensive, annually, due to the number of filter replacements you need when the duty cycle is 100%. > How do you manage your humidity when you are pulling in 1% humidity 30 > degree air? It is more expensive to add water to the air then it is to cool > it sometimes. redwood city, california has signs over several streets leading to its oldtown that say (and i'm not making this up) "climate best by government test". what this appears to mean is, we have about three 30F weeks per year, and we have three four 100F weeks per year, and the rest of the time, it's between 50F and 70F, during which time the humidity is perfect for servers.

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Re: Mitigating HTTP DDoS attacks?
by Roger Marquis 24 Mar '08

24 Mar '08

Mike Lyon wrote: > So, i'm kind of new to this so please deal with my ignorance. But, > what is common practice these days for HTTP DDoS mitigation during an > attack? You can of course route every offending ip address to null0 at > your border. But, if it's a botnet or trojan or something, It's coming > from numerous different source IPs and Null0 routes can get very > cumbersome. obviously. How do you folk usually deal with this? Depends a lot on the size of the network. If it's more than a few colos I highly recommend Arbor Peakflow (http://www.arbornetworks.com/) Not cheap but it works and scales well. -- Roger Marquis Roble Systems Consulting http://www.roble.com/

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Looking for Clue at Earthlink
by Rob Szarka 24 Mar '08

24 Mar '08

If someone here is from Earthlink, or knows someone who is, please get in touch with me off-list. I have a mail-related issue to resolve. (Sadly the ARIN-listed contact is not valid and mail to postmaster seems to go into the same black hole as mail to abuse.) Specifically, the issue relates to the servers in 209.86.89.0/24, in case anyone here is already aware of an issue with the servers in this block and can help. -- Rob Szarka, Bizgrok Inc. http://bizgrok.com/ 860-887-5600 800-954-INET

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Re: rack power question
by Scott Weeks 24 Mar '08

24 Mar '08

----- eddy+public+spam(a)noc.everquick.net wrote: -------- PG> (We are not worried about cooling due to the special circumstances PG> of the space.) ixp.aq? ;-) ----------------------------------------------------- Back in 2000-2002 I exchanged email several times with a guy responsible for a (the?) datacenter in Antartica and funny enough they had heat problems there. scott

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Re: rack power question
by Lamar Owen 24 Mar '08

24 Mar '08

On Monday 24 March 2008, Robert E. Seastrom wrote: > Lamar Owen <lowen(a)pari.edu> writes: > > While this discussion might seem out of the ordinary for a network > > operator's group, it is a very good discussion. > > The sad part is the extraordinariness of discussions that are so > solidly on-topic as this one. Thanks for your contribution; I (at > least) really appreciate it. You're quite welcome. There is a whole 'nother side to this, too, especially for those who run DC power. The ampacity of conductors is quite a bit higher for DC; I have a copy of the best book on that subject, written by a telco engineer. Let's see: "DC Power System Design for Telecommunications" by Whitham D. Reeve, Wiley is the publisher. This is an expensive book; about $100 from Wiley; low price on Amazon right now is $75.75. This one goes over EVERYTHING when it comes to DC power distribution design and implementation. It was worth the price I paid, that's for sure. We have two 200A Lorains here, with A battery being 450Ah of C&D flooded cells, and B battery being a bank of 4 135Ah 12V sealed AGM batteries. Our core switches and all but one of our core routers have DC power supplies. Incidentally, all of this is fresh to me primarily because I'm in the process of building a new datacenter and moving our existing equipment into it, primarily for RFI mitigation reasons. -- Lamar Owen Chief Information Officer Pisgah Astronomical Research Institute 1 PARI Drive Rosman, NC 28772 (828)862-5554 www.pari.edu

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ARIN & CAIDA IPv6 Survey Is Now Closed
by Member Services 24 Mar '08

24 Mar '08

ARIN wishes to thank the 300+ people who completed the IPv6 survey. CAIDA will analyze the results and present them on 7 April during the ARIN XXI Public Policy Meeting in Denver. The results will be posted on the ARIN website in the IPv6 Information Center and on the IPv6 wiki at www.getipv6.info. ARIN thanks NANOG for the opportunity to announce the survey on its mailing list and appreciates the participation by many in the operator community. When available, ARIN will post a link to the survey results on the NANOG mailing list. Regards, Member Services American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN)

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Re: v6 subnet size for DSL & leased line customers
by Brian Dickson 24 Mar '08

24 Mar '08

>> As to "there must be better knobs" I think it may be a little late for that; by design (or as a consequence of it) the set of IPv6 knobs is the same as the set of IPv4 knobs. > The trouble is that BGP doesn't have a meaningful inter-AS metric. (Although there is something that is called that.) If I want to increase my path length by 10% through a certain neighboring AS, I don't get to do that. I only get to double or triple it. (Unless I was doing very heavy prepending to begin with.) Actually, while it isn't a true metric as such, there *is* just such a knob. The "origin" attribute, can act as a fractional AS-path-length. It's mandatory and transitive. It gets evaluated after as path length, but before other attributes. It has three possible values (internal, external, unknown), and as such, gives the limited ability to influence path choice at third-party locations quite distant. The only caveat is, that some parties may mess with it on prefixes they receive. I've used it in the past, with considerable success. Brian Dickson

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default routes question or any way to do the rebundant
by ann kok 24 Mar '08

24 Mar '08

Hi ls it possible to have 2 default routes? or how can I do the rebundant when the route is still working either eth1 or eth2 down? Router2 192.168.0.2/20 eth1 192.168.0.18/20 eth2 10.0.0.1 eth3 ip route 0.0.0.0/0 192.168.0.1 ip route 0.0.0.0/0 192.168.0.17 or ip route 0.0.0.0/0 192.168.0.1 ip route 0.0.0.0/0 192.168.0.17 2 Router1 192.168.0.1 eth 192.168.0.17 eth2 172.16.0.1 eth3 host1 10.0.0.2 connects R2 couldn't ping host2 172.16.0.2 connects R1 when the link 192.168.0.1 is down host1-----R1--Switch---R2-----host2 --Switch--- i am using freebsd router Thank you for your help ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

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RE: rack power question
by Alex Rubenstein 24 Mar '08

24 Mar '08

> A very interesting thread... I believe that the cost of power will > continue to climb well into the future and that it would be foolish to > build any new infrastructure without incorporating the ability to pay > for what you use. So this means being able to measure the power > consumption for each server or to aggregate it to the individual > customer. Then factor in your cost of providing that power and the > associated cooling loads, add you margin and bill the user > accordingly. Paying for what you use is inherently fair - and I think > of the colo provider also as a technically competent provider of > "clean", highly-reliable power. Agreed. About four years ago, we saw the writing on the wall. The days of $750 racks which includes 20 amps of 120v are long gone. It was fine when the customer consumed 2 amps. No one really thought about the cross subsidization issues. Today, we sell racks for $500, but include no energy; every outlet to every rack in our datacenter is metered, and we sell energy at $n/amp. It's that simple. In effect, you can have as many outlets as you like (one time charge for them), but you pay for the consumption. No question cost of energy is going up and up; we've seen a 75% to 100% increase in 5 years in Northern NJ. This is why we plan on investing heavily in solar in the next year or so. With returns being as fast at 6 to 8 years, you are crazy not to look into this. > If you don't have a pay-as-you-go billing model, then what incentives > are there for the users to consolidate apps onto fewer boxes or to > enable the power saving features of the box (or operating system) - > which are becoming more widely available over time? Answer: none - > and human nature will simply be lazy about power saving. Even so, this doesn't seem to factor in. Customers have computing needs. Rarely do you see a customer say, "wow, this amp is costing me $n, so I am not going to run this SQL server."

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Re: default routes question or any way to do the rebundant
by Sena, Rich 22 Mar '08

22 Mar '08

Can someone put this in a digest for me? <eg> ----- Original Message ----- From: owner-nanog(a)merit.edu <owner-nanog(a)merit.edu> To: Barry Shein <bzs(a)world.std.com> Cc: nanog(a)merit.edu <nanog(a)merit.edu> Sent: Fri Mar 21 16:44:39 2008 Subject: Re: default routes question or any way to do the rebundant On Fri, Mar 21, 2008 at 4:29 PM, Barry Shein <bzs(a)world.std.com> wrote: > > > Is this for real? > > Someone asks a harmless question about setting up multiple default > routes, not about Barack Obama or whether the moon is made of green > cheese, but about default routes. > > Then 10 people decide to respond that this isn't appropriate for nanog. > > Then 25 people decide to dispute that. > > Then 50 people are arguing (ok maybe I exaggerate but just a little) > about it. > > So the person who asked the original question feels bad and apologizes. > > And 5 people decide to tell her there's nothing to apologize for. > > And 10 people dispute that...and...what next? Oh, right, and next I > feel an urge to write this idiotic meta-meta-meta-note. > > I think psychologists have a term for this, "chaotic instability > disorder" or something like that. > > Maybe what we need are NANOG GREETERS! > > Hello, welcome to Nanog, can we help you find something? Hello, > welcome to Nanog, can we help you find something?... Blue light special in slot 5? V6 only STM64's now half price! <personal opinion> I dont think that there's any issue at all to be honest. NANOG isn't just for the clued. </personal opinion> Best, Marty

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