June 2007 - Test - lists.nanog.org

Re: FBI tells the public to call their ISP for help
by Fergie 15 Jun '07

15 Jun '07

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 - -- Per Heldal <heldal(a)eml.cc> wrote: >Regulation targeting software-vendors and service-providers has little >effect as it is an attempt to disrupt the money-flow somewhere in the >middle. It's usually more efficient to "attack" the source. I.e. >authorities must hold computer users responsible and make them pay every >penny (or millions;) it costs to investigate and clean up their mess. >Mainstream OS'es as we know them would have been unsellable in today's >market if users, ever since the internet was commercialised, had been >held responsible. > When the banks & merchants get sick & tired of underwriting the fraud investigation and coverage liabilities, I think we will begin to see more of an effort to put more of the liability in the user's lap. In fact, I think we are already starting to see some movement in the fringes regarding this. The only thing I can say about this is: be careful what you ask for. The issues that might result as fall-out might be uglier than what we have now. :-/ - - ferg -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP Desktop 9.6.1 (Build 1012) wj8DBQFGcxuCq1pz9mNUZTMRAqmVAJwPwjgyLxKzlNqwbRZgXUk2uD4aywCdH+CQ MQJd8B/HGuhDFhCSN4K0K0M= =3NdK -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- "Fergie", a.k.a. Paul Ferguson Engineering Architecture for the Internet fergdawg(at)netzero.net ferg's tech blog: http://fergdawg.blogspot.com/

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Re: FBI tells the public to call their ISP for help
by Scott Weeks 15 Jun '07

15 Jun '07

----------------- darcy(a)druid.net wrote:--------------- From: "D'Arcy J.M. Cain" <darcy(a)druid.net> "Scott Weeks" <surfer(a)mauigateway.com> wrote: > : Most ISPs recommend using Microsoft software or > : provide software for the Microsoft platform, and > : require to turn on JavaScript > > I've never heard of an ISP requiring this. They might provide it for you if you want to use their branded Micro$loth-oriented software, but it's not a requirement. Any ISP requiring folks to use a particular OS is doomed to fail. You're kidding, right? Have you ever called an ISP to report a technical problem that has nothing to do with your computer or even your connection to them, say a reverse DNS issue? If you tell them that you run Unix they just ask you to run IE anyway. If you don't run Windows they won't help you. That's a pretty clear message. ----------------------------------------------------------- No I've never heard of that except, possibly, from non-clued phone monkeys. It's easy to get past them to more clued folks, though... scott

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Re: FBI tells the public to call their ISP for help
by Scott Weeks 15 Jun '07

15 Jun '07

: Most ISPs recommend using Microsoft software or : provide software for the Microsoft platform, and : require to turn on JavaScript I've never heard of an ISP requiring this. They might provide it for you if you want to use their branded Micro$loth-oriented software, but it's not a requirement. Any ISP requiring folks to use a particular OS is doomed to fail. scott --- fw(a)deneb.enyo.de wrote: From: Florian Weimer <fw(a)deneb.enyo.de> To: Owen DeLong <owen(a)delong.com> Cc: Sean Donelan <sean(a)donelan.com>, Jack Bates <jbates(a)brightok.net>, nanog(a)nanog.org Subject: Re: FBI tells the public to call their ISP for help Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2007 22:06:42 +0200 * Owen DeLong: > Wrong... Most of them are subject to the problems they have because > of their contractual relationship with Micr0$0ft. Specifically, > they made the unfortunate mistake of purchasing software from > Micr0$0ft, agreeing to the Micr0$0ft End User License Agreement > (contractual relationship) and then running the Micr0$0ft software, > which lead directly to their system getting owned (or pwn3d if you > prefer) due to the enormous number of design flaws, well known > exploits, and other deficiencies in the code purchased from > Micr0$0ft. In most parts of the world, the Microsoft EULA is not enforceable. Most users don't buy their software from Microsoft, either. It's preinstalled on their PC, and Microsoft disclaims any support. > In what way, exactly, is this in any part the ISPs fault? Why > should their ISP bear the brunt of the costs for Micr0$0ft's poorly > written code? Most ISPs recommend using Microsoft software or provide software for the Microsoft platform, and require to turn on JavaScript, which makes browsers much more vulnerable. (Obviously, this doesn't matter in practice, but still.) They don't exist in a vacuum. But the whole thing underlines a very difficult problem compromised end users face: they haven't got anyone to turn to. Someone quoted rates for some services, and these aren't acceptable (you can almost get a newer, faster PC for that price). Part of the problem is piracy, which makes it difficult to reinstall everything from scratch. Another one is the lack of an audit trail which would tell *why* the customer got infected, so that you could get some learning effect.

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Weekly Routing Table Report
by Routing Analysis Role Account 15 Jun '07

15 Jun '07

This is an automated weekly mailing describing the state of the Internet Routing Table as seen from APNIC's router in Japan. Daily listings are sent to bgp-stats(a)lists.apnic.net For historical data, please see http://thyme.apnic.net. If you have any comments please contact Philip Smith <pfs(a)cisco.com>. Routing Table Report 04:00 +10GMT Sat 16 Jun, 2007 Report Website: http://thyme.apnic.net This report: http://thyme.apnic.net/ap-data/2007/06/16/0400 Analysis Summary ---------------- BGP routing table entries examined: 222914 Prefixes after maximum aggregation: 117940 Deaggregation factor: 1.89 Unique aggregates announced to Internet: 108491 Total ASes present in the Internet Routing Table: 25464 Prefixes per ASN: 8.75 Origin-only ASes present in the Internet Routing Table: 22162 Origin ASes announcing only one prefix: 10772 Transit ASes present in the Internet Routing Table: 3302 Transit-only ASes present in the Internet Routing Table: 75 Average AS path length visible in the Internet Routing Table: 3.6 Max AS path length visible: 22 Max AS path prepend of ASN (35389) 16 Prefixes from unregistered ASNs in the Routing Table: 5 Unregistered ASNs in the Routing Table: 7 Prefixes from 32-bit ASNs in the Routing Table: 5 Special use prefixes present in the Routing Table: 0 Prefixes being announced from unallocated address space: 12 Number of addresses announced to Internet: 1737995104 Equivalent to 103 /8s, 151 /16s and 179 /24s Percentage of available address space announced: 46.9 Percentage of allocated address space announced: 62.1 Percentage of available address space allocated: 75.5 Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations: 116911 APNIC Region Analysis Summary ----------------------------- Prefixes being announced by APNIC Region ASes: 52214 Total APNIC prefixes after maximum aggregation: 20460 APNIC Deaggregation factor: 2.55 Prefixes being announced from the APNIC address blocks: 49154 Unique aggregates announced from the APNIC address blocks: 21596 APNIC Region origin ASes present in the Internet Routing Table: 2976 APNIC Prefixes per ASN: 16.52 APNIC Region origin ASes announcing only one prefix: 796 APNIC Region transit ASes present in the Internet Routing Table: 457 Average APNIC Region AS path length visible: 3.6 Max APNIC Region AS path length visible: 15 Number of APNIC addresses announced to Internet: 299838112 Equivalent to 17 /8s, 223 /16s and 42 /24s Percentage of available APNIC address space announced: 74.3 APNIC AS Blocks 4608-4864, 7467-7722, 9216-10239, 17408-18431 (pre-ERX allocations) 23552-24575, 37888-38911 APNIC Address Blocks 58/7, 60/7, 116/6, 120/6, 124/7, 126/8, 202/7 210/7, 218/7, 220/7 and 222/8 ARIN Region Analysis Summary ---------------------------- Prefixes being announced by ARIN Region ASes: 106469 Total ARIN prefixes after maximum aggregation: 62049 ARIN Deaggregation factor: 1.72 Prefixes being announced from the ARIN address blocks: 78328 Unique aggregates announced from the ARIN address blocks: 31014 ARIN Region origin ASes present in the Internet Routing Table: 11628 ARIN Prefixes per ASN: 6.74 ARIN Region origin ASes announcing only one prefix: 4468 ARIN Region transit ASes present in the Internet Routing Table: 1070 Average ARIN Region AS path length visible: 3.4 Max ARIN Region AS path length visible: 17 Number of ARIN addresses announced to Internet: 336093824 Equivalent to 20 /8s, 8 /16s and 98 /24s Percentage of available ARIN address space announced: 74.2 ARIN AS Blocks 1-1876, 1902-2042, 2044-2046, 2048-2106 (pre-ERX allocations) 2138-2584, 2615-2772, 2823-2829, 2880-3153 3354-4607, 4865-5119, 5632-6655, 6912-7466 7723-8191, 10240-12287, 13312-15359, 16384-17407 18432-20479, 21504-23551, 25600-26591, 26624-27647, 29696-30719, 31744-33791 35840-36863, 39936-40959 ARIN Address Blocks 24/8, 63/8, 64/5, 72/6, 76/8, 96/6, 199/8, 204/6, 208/7 and 216/8 RIPE Region Analysis Summary ---------------------------- Prefixes being announced by RIPE Region ASes: 46726 Total RIPE prefixes after maximum aggregation: 30200 RIPE Deaggregation factor: 1.55 Prefixes being announced from the RIPE address blocks: 43218 Unique aggregates announced from the RIPE address blocks: 28664 RIPE Region origin ASes present in the Internet Routing Table: 9787 RIPE Prefixes per ASN: 4.42 RIPE Region origin ASes announcing only one prefix: 5190 RIPE Region transit ASes present in the Internet Routing Table: 1567 Average RIPE Region AS path length visible: 4.0 Max RIPE Region AS path length visible: 22 Number of RIPE addresses announced to Internet: 315250688 Equivalent to 18 /8s, 202 /16s and 88 /24s Percentage of available RIPE address space announced: 78.3 RIPE AS Blocks 1877-1901, 2043, 2047, 2107-2136, 2585-2614 (pre-ERX allocations) 2773-2822, 2830-2879, 3154-3353, 5377-5631 6656-6911, 8192-9215, 12288-13311, 15360-16383 20480-21503, 24576-25599, 28672-29695 30720-31743, 33792-35839, 38912-39935 40960-44031 RIPE Address Blocks 62/8, 77/8, 78/7, 80/5, 88/6, 92/7, 193/8, 194/7, 212/7 and 217/8 LACNIC Region Analysis Summary ------------------------------ Prefixes being announced by LACNIC Region ASes: 14923 Total LACNIC prefixes after maximum aggregation: 4216 LACNIC Deaggregation factor: 3.54 Prefixes being announced from the LACNIC address blocks: 12999 Unique aggregates announced from the LACNIC address blocks: 7312 LACNIC Region origin ASes present in the Internet Routing Table: 806 LACNIC Prefixes per ASN: 16.13 LACNIC Region origin ASes announcing only one prefix: 260 LACNIC Region transit ASes present in the Internet Routing Table: 138 Average LACNIC Region AS path length visible: 4.2 Max LACNIC Region AS path length visible: 18 Number of LACNIC addresses announced to Internet: 39271168 Equivalent to 2 /8s, 87 /16s and 59 /24s Percentage of available LACNIC address space announced: 58.5 LACNIC AS Blocks 26592-26623, 27648-28671, plus ERX transfers LACNIC Address Blocks 189/8, 190/8, 200/7 AfriNIC Region Analysis Summary ------------------------------- Prefixes being announced by AfriNIC Region ASes: 2573 Total AfriNIC prefixes after maximum aggregation: 1005 AfriNIC Deaggregation factor: 2.56 Prefixes being announced from the AfriNIC address blocks: 1988 Unique aggregates announced from the AfriNIC address blocks: 1208 AfriNIC Region origin ASes present in the Internet Routing Table: 191 AfriNIC Prefixes per ASN: 10.41 AfriNIC Region origin ASes announcing only one prefix: 58 AfriNIC Region transit ASes present in the Internet Routing Table: 38 Average AfriNIC Region AS path length visible: 3.8 Max AfriNIC Region AS path length visible: 14 Number of AfriNIC addresses announced to Internet: 6243584 Equivalent to 0 /8s, 95 /16s and 69 /24s Percentage of available AfriNIC address space announced: 18.6 AfriNIC AS Blocks 36864-37887 & ERX transfers AfriNIC Address Blocks 41/8, 196/8 APNIC Region per AS prefix count summary ---------------------------------------- ASN No of nets /20 equiv MaxAgg Description 4134 1289 9973 279 CHINANET-BACKBONE 4755 1230 382 71 Videsh Sanchar Nigam Ltd. Aut 9583 1100 79 395 Sify Limited 9498 1002 469 67 BHARTI BT INTERNET LTD. 4766 787 4943 312 Korea Telecom (KIX) 23577 777 35 705 Korea Telecom (ATM-MPLS) 17488 701 46 40 Hathway IP Over Cable Interne 7545 632 143 82 TPG Internet Pty Ltd 18101 558 117 35 Reliance Infocom Ltd Internet 1221 550 1954 425 Telstra Pty Ltd 4668 508 68 10 LG-EDS Systems Inc. 17676 504 10935 65 Softbank BB Corp. 4812 465 843 80 China Telecom (Shanghai) 9443 465 121 77 Primus Telecommunications 7474 412 218 270 SingTel Optus Pty Ltd 4802 408 86 147 Wantree Development 17974 371 129 12 PT TELEKOMUNIKASI INDONESIA 9829 363 258 15 BSNL National Internet Backbo 2907 360 1700 301 SINET Japan 17557 358 41 173 Pakistan Telecom ARIN Region per AS prefix count summary --------------------------------------- ASN No of nets /20 equiv MaxAgg Description 7018 1473 6112 974 AT&T WorldNet Services 4323 1276 1034 366 Time Warner Telecom 2386 1141 596 753 AT&T Data Communications Serv 6478 1111 364 142 AT&T Worldnet Services 11492 1083 106 22 Cable One 6197 1024 707 508 BellSouth Network Solutions, 18566 1010 288 9 Covad Communications 174 956 6780 867 Cogent Communications 701 953 6596 727 UUNET Technologies, Inc. 7011 840 234 531 Citizens Utilities 1239 806 2731 573 Sprint 20115 800 730 426 Charter Communications 19262 776 2703 202 Verizon Global Networks 209 745 3838 581 Qwest 22773 721 1892 44 Cox Communications, Inc. 5668 612 169 20 CenturyTel Internet Holdings, 7029 599 488 80 Alltel Information Services, 852 589 1090 372 Telus Advanced Communications 855 573 253 71 Canadian Research Network 19916 568 49 51 OLM LLC RIPE Region per AS prefix count summary --------------------------------------- ASN No of nets /20 equiv MaxAgg Description 702 515 1938 406 UUNET - Commercial IP service 2119 513 1075 135 Telenor Internet Access 24863 351 56 35 LINKdotNET AS number 3301 308 1471 288 TeliaNet Sweden 3320 307 6018 256 Deutsche Telekom AG 6746 278 129 255 Dynamic Network Technologies, 680 265 2044 256 DFN-IP service G-WiN 3215 249 2296 95 France Telecom Transpac 8220 248 444 240 COLT Telecommunications 8708 237 416 230 Romania Data Systems S.A. 5089 221 1658 53 NTL Group Limited 3269 218 2679 75 TELECOM ITALIA 3352 216 1864 37 Ibernet, Internet Access Netw 9121 208 1441 23 TTnet Autonomous System 8551 207 197 27 Bezeq International 9116 199 136 25 Goldenlines main autonomous s 1257 198 1196 176 SWIPnet Swedish IP Network 3246 197 331 187 Song Networks 12479 189 578 6 Uni2 Autonomous System 3300 181 171 88 AUCS Communications Services LACNIC Region per AS prefix count summary ----------------------------------------- ASN No of nets /20 equiv MaxAgg Description 8151 844 1904 207 UniNet S.A. de C.V. 11830 483 299 19 Instituto Costarricense de El 11172 371 116 63 Servicios Alestra S.A de C.V 16814 361 22 8 NSS, S.A. 22047 316 238 12 VTR PUNTO NET S.A. 7303 295 144 31 Telecom Argentina Stet-France 6471 272 74 33 ENTEL CHILE S.A. 14117 255 19 15 Telefonica del Sur S.A. 11556 231 128 4 Cable-Wireless Panama 6147 223 168 25 Telefonica Del Peru 6503 211 188 84 AVANTEL, S.A. 10620 207 59 14 TVCABLE BOGOTA 10481 181 72 8 Prima S.A. 14522 167 27 8 SatNet S.A. 23216 163 19 42 RAMtelecom Telecomunicaciones 21826 157 27 59 INTERCABLE 7910 155 11 33 ANDINET ON LINE 19429 152 79 41 E.T.B. 20299 147 23 12 NEWCOM AMERICAS 7738 146 474 22 Telecomunicacoes da Bahia S.A AfriNIC Region per AS prefix count summary ------------------------------------------ ASN No of nets /20 equiv MaxAgg Description 3741 280 867 221 The Internet Solution 8452 214 188 7 TEDATA 6713 142 135 11 Itissalat Al-MAGHRIB 2018 136 301 111 Tertiary Education Network 15475 136 84 4 Nile Online 5536 123 8 15 Internet Egypt Network 33783 119 8 9 EEPAD TISP TELECOM & INTERNET 24835 85 48 6 RAYA Telecom - Egypt 2905 77 174 73 The Internetworking Company o 2561 61 6 2 Egyptian Universities Network 15706 56 12 4 Sudatel Internet Exchange Aut 23889 48 16 13 MAURITIUS TELECOM 5713 44 294 34 Telkom SA Ltd 33774 43 29 24 AS Number for Telecom Algeria 16637 37 21 29 Johnnic e-Ventures 33776 36 2 2 Starcomms Nigeria Limited 12455 34 6 3 Jambonet Autonomous system 8524 32 2 8 AUCEGYPT Autonomous System 21280 27 4 4 Swift Global Kenya Ltd.Is an 10798 24 2 15 Standard Bank of South Africa Global Per AS Maximum Aggr summary ---------------------------------- ASN No of nets Net Savings Description 4755 1230 1159 Videsh Sanchar Nigam Ltd. Aut 11492 1083 1061 Cable One 4134 1289 1010 CHINANET-BACKBONE 18566 1010 1001 Covad Communications 6478 1111 969 AT&T Worldnet Services 9498 1002 935 BHARTI BT INTERNET LTD. 4323 1276 910 Time Warner Telecom 9583 1100 705 Sify Limited 22773 721 677 Cox Communications, Inc. 17488 701 661 Hathway IP Over Cable Interne 8151 844 637 UniNet S.A. de C.V. 5668 612 592 CenturyTel Internet Holdings, 19262 776 574 Verizon Global Networks 7545 632 550 TPG Internet Pty Ltd 18101 558 523 Reliance Infocom Ltd Internet 7029 599 519 Alltel Information Services, 19916 568 517 OLM LLC 6197 1024 516 BellSouth Network Solutions, 15270 546 511 PaeTec.net -a division of Pae 855 573 502 Canadian Research Network List of Unregistered Origin ASNs (Global) ----------------------------------------- Bad AS Designation Network Transit AS Description 65019 PRIVATE 63.138.117.0/24 19034 Norcom Networks Corp 65332 PRIVATE 63.166.106.192/27 1803 SPRINT 65001 PRIVATE 82.213.31.0/24 12975 PALTEL Autonomous Sy 24410 UNALLOCATED 203.119.28.0/24 4134 CHINANET-BACKBONE 22895 UNALLOCATED 216.174.38.0/24 19094 Adelphia Business So Advertised Unallocated Addresses -------------------------------- Network Origin AS Description 7.1.1.0/24 1239 Sprint 94.110.196.0/24 21161 Bechtle Autonomous System 132.0.0.0/10 721 DLA Systems Automation Center 137.0.0.0/13 721 DLA Systems Automation Center 158.0.0.0/13 721 DLA Systems Automation Center 172.33.1.0/24 7018 AT&T WorldNet Services 192.0.10.0/24 9498 BHARTI BT INTERNET LTD. 192.44.0.0/24 5501 Fraunhofer Gesellschaft 192.44.0.0/19 702 UUNET - Commercial IP service 192.70.164.0/24 25689 National Research Council of 192.153.136.0/21 721 DLA Systems Automation Center 192.172.0.0/19 721 DLA Systems Automation Center Number of prefixes announced per prefix length (Global) ------------------------------------------------------- /1:0 /2:0 /3:0 /4:0 /5:0 /6:0 /7:0 /8:19 /9:9 /10:15 /11:35 /12:124 /13:245 /14:463 /15:889 /16:9457 /17:4013 /18:6444 /19:13611 /20:15718 /21:14184 /22:18453 /23:19509 /24:117366 /25:803 /26:980 /27:475 /28:67 /29:10 /30:13 /31:0 /32:12 Advertised prefixes smaller than registry allocations ----------------------------------------------------- ASN No of nets Total ann. Description 6478 1101 1111 AT&T Worldnet Services 11492 1074 1083 Cable One 18566 992 1010 Covad Communications 9583 942 1100 Sify Limited 2386 840 1141 AT&T Data Communications Serv 7018 790 1473 AT&T WorldNet Services 6197 777 1024 BellSouth Network Solutions, 23577 763 777 Korea Telecom (ATM-MPLS) 7011 742 840 Citizens Utilities 9498 672 1002 BHARTI BT INTERNET LTD. 4755 631 1230 Videsh Sanchar Nigam Ltd. Aut 4766 593 787 Korea Telecom (KIX) 19916 563 568 OLM LLC 4323 523 1276 Time Warner Telecom 17488 523 701 Hathway IP Over Cable Interne 15270 513 546 PaeTec.net -a division of Pae 4668 498 508 LG-EDS Systems Inc. 5668 477 612 CenturyTel Internet Holdings, 18101 474 558 Reliance Infocom Ltd Internet 855 471 573 Canadian Research Network Number of /24s announced per /8 block (Global) ---------------------------------------------- 4:9 7:1 8:81 9:1 12:1808 15:19 16:3 17:3 18:8 20:36 24:918 25:1 32:51 33:2 38:322 40:61 41:164 44:2 47:5 52:4 55:3 56:3 57:25 58:415 59:405 60:301 61:984 62:933 63:1968 64:3119 65:2356 66:3254 67:746 68:636 69:1879 70:429 71:112 72:1322 73:1 74:525 75:259 76:40 77:238 78:2 80:818 81:808 82:662 83:392 84:418 85:844 86:383 87:486 88:279 89:910 90:7 91:368 94:1 97:6 98:3 116:194 117:49 121:202 122:547 123:114 124:829 125:944 128:280 129:223 130:126 131:365 132:53 133:9 134:193 135:39 136:185 137:81 138:142 139:71 140:481 141:171 142:372 143:234 144:291 145:43 146:320 147:120 148:397 149:142 150:114 151:158 152:93 153:126 154:4 155:254 156:152 157:188 158:158 159:157 160:106 161:91 162:228 163:183 164:450 165:399 166:241 167:285 168:512 169:120 170:401 171:16 172:1 189:53 190:578 192:5767 193:3873 194:3150 195:2237 196:908 198:3753 199:3290 200:4850 201:1017 202:7371 203:7529 204:3963 205:2032 206:2338 207:2811 208:2641 209:3512 210:2457 211:956 212:1310 213:1481 214:413 215:40 216:4010 217:1145 218:358 219:384 220:976 221:409 222:261 End of report

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Re: Researchers Chart Internet's 'Black Holes'
by Ethan Katz-Bassett 15 Jun '07

15 Jun '07

Jeroen Massar wrote: > Hank Nussbacher wrote: >> >> http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2007/06/hubble >> ... > I couldn't make it up from the slides or the terse text, but I am > wondering how much information you can really deduce from BGP, yes it > says "they don't have that prefix", but for the rest, even if an ISP has > a prefix it doesn't mean that any packet can flow from A to B. Doing > traceroutes from a remote site doesn't help as that is just C to A or B. > Better "Internet Hubble Telescopes" are therefor: > RIPE TTM: http://www.ripe.net/test-traffic/ > RIPE RIS: http://www.ripe.net/ris/ Hi Jeroen, Sorry for the delayed response. They had mistakenly posted draft slides months old. If you check again, you can see the slides I actually presented, the link was recently updated: http://www.nanog.org/mtg-0706/Presentations/EthanKatzBassett-RealTimeBlackh… The slides are pretty terse-- the work is in its infancy, it was only a 10 minute talk, and the Wired article wasn't intended for a network operator-level audience. So, anyone should feel free to write me with questions/ comments. We're hoping to build a system that will be useful to the community, so feedback is useful (and why I presented at NANOG). We're not looking for "dark address space," where some locations have a prefix and others don't, which I think is what you were referring to using RIPE RIS for. Rather, we use BGP info (currently from RouteViews, though we've used RIPE) to identify prefixes with route changes that might be experiencing reachability problems, and we trigger traceroutes to these prefixes. RIPE TTM is similar for sure, but there are some substantial differences (from my understanding of TTM). We want to monitor reachability on an Internet-scale, and TTM does not currently provide this. TTM requires dedicated boxes to be installed in the prefixes of interest (both source and dest), and their documentation says that the architecture doesn't scale past 200 nodes. The current TTM deployment seems to be ~150 boxes, with 4 in North America and 1 in Asia. Because of the limited size of the deployment, TTM does not have to deal with intelligent probe selection-- every node can probe every other node "all the time." In experiments we ran in January, we used ~hundreds of vantage points and monitored 110,000 prefixes, covering over 90% of the edge ASes. The plan for this summer is to ramp the system up to that level of coverage with the type of real-time classification I spoke about at NANOG. After that, we have plans to ramp up the number of vantages by orders of magnitude. Further, while TTM has the data to do it, the project does not seem to currently track reachability information, our primary concern. There are other similar projects out there too, for instance: http://www.nanog.org/mtg-0706/bush.html It seems to me that all these complement, rather than supplant, each other. Ethan

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Re: 24x7 Support Strategies
by Scott Weeks 15 Jun '07

15 Jun '07

--------------- jabley(a)ca.afilias.info wrote:----------------- From: Joe Abley <jabley(a)ca.afilias.info> On 14-Jun-2007, at 02:32, Sam Stickland wrote: > Does anyone have any CCIE (or equivalent technical ability) staff > on a 24x7 shift? What about CCIE level staff on an on-call rota > with a garanteed response time? How about CCNP? Does anybody actually put any stock in the presence or absence of vendor certifications on a resume when judging the capabilities of an engineer? There's no correlation between certification and capability, in my experience. ---------------------------------------------------------------- The issue I've found is many times I am being hired by folks that don't know IP networking very well and don't know any other way to evaluate a person's ability WRT IP networking than requiring certs of one type or another. Or trust the confidence I express when answering the questions they do ask. One day, hopefully, someone will ask me in an interview good technical questions that I can answer in a proper manner and then they'll let me telecommute for most of the year... ;-) scott

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RE: 24x7 Support Strategies
by Howard C. Berkowitz 14 Jun '07

14 Jun '07

[Sorry, I have a hosed copy of #*@! Outlook, which crashes whenever I tell it to prefix earlier comments with >] -----Original Message----- From: William F. Maton Sotomayor [mailto:wmaton@ryouko.imsb.nrc.ca] Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2007 8:14 AM To: Howard C. Berkowitz Subject: RE: 24x7 Support Strategies On Thu, 14 Jun 2007, Howard C. Berkowitz wrote: > > This topic interests me very much, and I had a BOF about staff development > at the Montreal meeting in 1999. I remember some of the details, and, while > I am no longer generally doing course development, I have some pretty strong > ideas of what reasonably constitutes a proper training sandbox for a major > ISP. Actually, it's BOFs like these that I would like to see revisited from time to time by NANOG. The 'big' BOF I always wanted to see revisited in great detail was the data center one from the late 1990's. [Howard C. Berkowitz] I remember that one well. As an aside, while I recognize it would be a whole new level of effort, I'd really like to see -- and will work on if needed -- some NANOG documents other than copies of presentations. The data center ones were very good, and Sean Donelan has a couple of great tables that pull together a huge amount of information on data/carrier centers. A related area that might well be worth revisiting is cooling. IIRC, it was someone from Google, at the Intel developer conference, who said that their power and HVAC costs were rapidly approaching the cost of their servers. He laid down a challenge for chipmakers to be more energy-efficient. My understanding is that at a certain level of scaling, chilled water becomes very efficient. A few municipal areas have chilled water utilities, while in others, you may need to build your own system. One of the immediate questions will be to what extent you can use liquid chilling in racks or even components, and when the best will be a rack heat exchanger or chilled air input coming from the chilled water. This is also a topic for operation in disasters, which is where my St. Louis talk morphed. While I don't have all the details and would welcome them, I understand that New Orleans made a hard decision during Katrina, which probably would not have been made if there weren't contingency plans for it. A telco tandem/toll office was one of the last ones operating in an area, and it needed chilled water. Some of the chilled water distribution had been knocked out. The city diverted a fire engine, even though there were fires, to act as an interim pump so they continued to have long-distance telephony.

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Re: Diesel storage (was:RE: 24x7 Support Strategies)
by Brandon Galbraith 14 Jun '07

14 Jun '07

On 6/14/07, chuck goolsbee <chucklist(a)forest.net> wrote: > > > The issue with straight vegetable oil is that it > must be pre-heated to >55°C to efficiently run in > a Diesel engine without risk of injector or > injector pump clogging. This is not exactly > efficient for fail-over power generation as you > would either need to build dual-tank and heating > systems (still storing SOME petro-Diesel AND > losing X% of your power generation facility to > heating your fuel in the process... a LOT of > electricity as most backup gensets have a LOT of > fuel around to heat up... looking outside my > office window I see two tanks, one 19000 liters, > the other 30,000 liters in capacity.) Or you > would need to mix that SVO with petroleum Diesel, > to thin it enough to run risk free... negating > your desire to rid yourself of petrochemical risk. > Not to go too far off-topic, but it's very true that the best thing to use is straight petrol diesel for your redundant power systems at a datacenter. No fun telling a client power went out for 12 hours because your fuel supply had gelled due to the low overnight temps (depending on location of course). As the price of petrol fuel supplies slowly moves upward due to demand from China and India, I foresee datacenters moving away from diesel generators as backup power sources towards fuel cells/generators that can burn natural gas and hydrogen. With that said, climates such as Brazil's would be perfect to use generators burning ethanol for backup power (also helped by the large ethanol distribution infrastructure in place there). -brandon

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OT RE: 24x7 Support Strategies
by Scott Weeks 14 Jun '07

14 Jun '07

--------- bobf(a)studentsonly.com wrote:---------------- From: "Farrell,Bob" <bobf(a)studentsonly.com> Agreed, but apples and oranges to me in that example. I had an engineer that worked for me, then left our org. He spent over 70K in equipment and training out of his own pocket. He failed the CCIE lab 3 times and finally got it as he kept trying on the fourth attempt. He now holds a position in NYC, makes a great living, and I still get accolades from the company he now works for how lucky they were to get him, and what a great job he is doing. His job entails a very high level of responsibility. I think certs provide two things. One, the ability to show that you know what you are doing ( agreed grey area on that one ) , but also the commitment for one to better themselves..... someone I would look at in the hiring process first. Any/every applicant still goes through a rigorous interview process, and the uncertified sometimes win out. Depends on the applicant. ------------------------------------------------------ I have a degree in electrical engineering w/ an emphasis in communications systems and no vendor cert. Also, I have hands-on experiences on many products (cisco, Juniper, Alcatel, Foundry, 3Com, etc) and a lot of protocols (too many to mention, but am working on Alcatel's Triple Play stuff right now [IPTV is way cool]). What would you choose? Someone who only knows cisco or someone who can do it all? scott

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RE: 24x7 Support Strategies
by Scott Weeks 14 Jun '07

14 Jun '07

--------------- jabley(a)ca.afilias.info wrote:----------------- From: Joe Abley <jabley(a)ca.afilias.info> On 14-Jun-2007, at 02:32, Sam Stickland wrote: > Does anyone have any CCIE (or equivalent technical ability) staff > on a 24x7 shift? What about CCIE level staff on an on-call rota > with a garanteed response time? How about CCNP? Does anybody actually put any stock in the presence or absence of vendor certifications on a resume when judging the capabilities of an engineer? There's no correlation between certification and capability, in my experience. ---------------------------------------------------------------- The issue I've found is many times I am being hired by folks that don't know IP networking very well and don't know any other way to evaluate a person's ability WRT IP networking than requiring certs of one type or another. Or trust the confidence I express when answering the questions they do ask. One day, hopefully, someone will ask me in an interview good technical questions that I can answer in a proper manner and then they'll let me telecommute for most of the year... ;-) ---------------------------------------------------- --- bobf(a)studentsonly.com wrote: From: "Farrell,Bob" <bobf(a)studentsonly.com> You would if you knew how hard the tests were. ( not counting Microsoft of course) -------------------------------------------- I would what? You don't make sense. scott

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