March 2007 - Test - lists.nanog.org

RE: [funsec] Not so fast, broadband providers tell big users (fwd)
by Frank Bulk 15 Mar '07

15 Mar '07

Could you please clarify that comment? USF has made it possible for us to serve DSL to almost every customer in our exchanges. Frank -----Original Message----- From: Frank Bulk Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 6:50 AM To: NANOG list Subject: Re: [funsec] Not so fast, broadband providers tell big users (fwd) On Mar 13, 2007, at 11:19 AM, Daniel Senie wrote: > A universal service charge could be applied to all bills, with the > funds going to subsidize rural areas. This is already done in the U.S., to no discernible effect. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Roland Dobbins <rdobbins(a)cisco.com> // 408.527.6376 voice Words that come from a machine have no soul. -- Duong Van Ngo

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Re: NOC Personel Question (Possibly OT)
by K. Graham 15 Mar '07

15 Mar '07

I was called a "nocling" but I doubt that would pass the HR test. Kim ----- Original Message ---- From: Justin M. Streiner <streiner(a)cluebyfour.org> To: NANOG <nanog(a)merit.edu> Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 9:07:52 PM Subject: Re: NOC Personel Question (Possibly OT) On Wed, 14 Mar 2007, Todd Christell wrote: > Sorry if this is OT but we are having a discussion with our HR > department. We are in the process of getting a 24 X 7 NOC in place and > HR has a problem with calling them NOC Specialist. What is the > generally accepted title? Not sure why your HR dept would even care :) hmmm..... NOC Engineer? NOC Analyst? NOC (insert generic group name here)? jms

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RE: [funsec] Not so fast, broadband providers tell big users (fwd)
by Frank Bulk 15 Mar '07

15 Mar '07

In regards to gold-plating, it makes a difference if it's average-schedule or cost-company. If it's the latter, then yes, all actual costs are including in building the rate base. Frank -----Original Message----- From: Frank Bulk Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 6:48 AM To: nanog(a)nanog.org Cc: rdobbins(a)cisco.com Subject: Re: [funsec] Not so fast, broadband providers tell big users (fwd) >> USF has made it possible for us to >> serve DSL to almost every customer in our exchanges. > >I'm glad to hear it - the reports of how that fund is (un)used are >almost overwhelmingly negative, I'm glad some folks, somewhere are >benefiting from it. There's a lot not to like about USF, notably the way it encourages rural telcos to gold-plate everything to increase their rate base, but it still does the same job it's done for the past 80 years or so, make phone service in the boondocks affordable. R's, John PS: My telco has about 8000 lines, but just in case we bave a population boom, their GTD-5 switch can expand to 100,000.

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Re: NOC Personel Question (Possibly OT)
by Robert Bonomi 15 Mar '07

15 Mar '07

> From owner-nanog(a)merit.edu Thu Mar 15 00:52:53 2007 > Subject: Re: NOC Personel Question (Possibly OT) > > K. Graham wrote: > > I was called a "nocling" but I doubt that would pass the HR test. > > > > I'm kinda partial to NOC Knuklehead. > There's always "Guru of Distributed Systems'. Reserved for the -real- router gods. <grin> `

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Call for Presentations: NANOG 40 - June 3-6 - Bellevue, WA
by Steve Feldman 14 Mar '07

14 Mar '07

The North American Network Operators' Group (NANOG) will hold its 40th meeting June 3-6, 2007, in Bellevue, Washington. The meeting will be hosted by XKL. NANOG conferences provide a forum for information exchange among network operators, engineers, and researchers. Meetings are held three times each year, and include panels, presentations, tutorial sessions, and BOFs. NANOG solicits presentations highlighting issues relating to technology already deployed or soon to be deployed in the Internet. The NANOG community is invited to attend and participate in this forum, which offers numerous opportunities to share ideas, explore research and development, and interact with leaders in this important field of network operations. Vendors are encouraged to work with operators to present deployment experiences with the vendor's products and interoperability. General Session =============== The community is invited to develop panel sessions or present talks on topics relevant to the NANOG community, including: Network Operations Present-day operational case studies Everyday life in the NOC and tools of interest Exchange point technologies and implementation Peering/colocation coordination issues Content provider issues Security attacks/mitigation, tools, and analysis State of OAM tools for IP and MPLS networks Disaster recovery and planning Deployment Experience Mergers and their impact on interconnected networks Alternative and emerging last-mile technologies (metro/rural, broadband, radio, optical, etc.) VoIP deployment, architecture, peering, and interconnect Anycast IPTV Large-scale wireless Fiber and wavelength use by enterprises Research, Policy, and New Technology Approaches to securing the global routing system (e.g., s*BGP and/or other tools) Routing system scalability Capacity planning standards and tools Inter-provider MPLS/QoS/PCE RIR policy (e.g., implications of HD ratio) Active standards organizations and areas of interest IPv6: economics, deployments, and adoption rates Approaches to IPv6 scalability, e.g., Shim6 Talks ===== A general session talk should be on a topic of interest to the general NANOG audience, and may be up to 30 minutes long. Panels ====== Panel selection will be based on the importance, originality, focus and timeliness of the topic; expertise of proposed panelists; as well as the potential for informative and controversial discussion. The panel leader should provide an abstract describing the panel theme, list of panelists, and an outline of how the panel will be organized. After acceptance, the panel leader will be given the option to invite panel authors to submit their presentations to the NANOG Program Committee for review. Until then authors should not submit their individual presentations for the panel. A panel may be up to 90 minutes long. Lightning Talks =============== A lightning talk is a very short presentation or speech by any attendee on any topic relevant to the NANOG audience. These are limited to ten minutes; this will be strictly enforced. If you have a topic that's timely, interesting, or even a crackpot idea you want to share, we encourage you to consider presenting it. Signups for lightning talks will be accepted during the NANOG meeting. Research Forum ============== Researchers are invited to present short (10-minute) summaries of their work for operator feedback. Topics include routing, network performance, statistical measurement and analysis, and protocol development and implementation. Studies presented may be works in progress. Researchers from academia, government, and industry are encouraged to present. Tutorials ========= Proposals are also invited for tutorial sessions from the introductory through advanced level on all related topics, including: Disaster Recovery Planning Troubleshooting BGP Best Practices for Determining Traffic Matrices Options for Blackhole and Discard Routing BGP/MPLS Layer 3 VPNs A tutorial may use either one or two 90-minute sessions. BOFs ==== BOFs (Birds of a Feather sessions) are 90-minute informal sessions on topics which are of interest to a portion of the NANOG community. A typical BOF session includes some presentations, but usually is focused on community discussion and interaction. Frequent BOF topics include: Peering ISP Security Tools A BOF session is 90 minutes. Registration Fee Waivers ======================== The meeting registration fee will be waived as follows: - General session talk: one speaker - General session panel: one moderator and all panelists - Research forum talk: one speaker - Tutorial: one instructor - BOF: one moderator How to Present ============== The primary speaker, moderator, or author should submit presentation information and an abstract online at: http://www.nanogpc.org Once you have done this, you will receive instructions for submitting your draft slides. See http://www.nanog.org/presentations.html for complete submission guidelines. All submissions must include: Author's name(s) Preferred contact email address Submission category (General Session, Panel, Tutorial, Research Forum, or BOF) Presentation title Abstract Slides (attachment or URL), in PDF (preferred) or Powerpoint format (Slides are optional for BOFs.) You may instead submit the presentation information and draft slides in email to nanog-support(a)nanog.org. The deadline for proposals is Thursday, April 12, at 11:59pm PDT. A limited number of slots may be available after that date for topics that are exceptionally timely, important, or critical to the operation of the Internet. Submissions will be reviewed by the NANOG Program Committee, and presenters will be notified of acceptance by April 19. Final drafts of presentation slides are due for review on May 18, and final versions for posting are due on May 25.

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Re: A nice description of why the Internet is slow
by Jim Mercer 14 Mar '07

14 Mar '07

On Thu, Mar 08, 2007 at 07:23:37AM -0500, wmaton(a)ottix.net wrote: > http://www.ccs.uottawa.ca/connect/why-internet-slow.html ironically, it took more than 2 minutes for this URL to fully render for me. while waiting for it to pull in icons(?) or other stuff to decorate the page, i was able to read the full text. i suspect this is related to a packet-sniffer mandated by the UAE government to find and stamp out skype->phone sessions and other VoIP type activities, while not interfereing with Skype->Skype and other P2P activities. the article fails to mention delays that are introduced when Homeland Security mandates that everyone going in and out of Quickie-Mart needs to be strip searched looking for weapons of mass destruction. -- [ Jim Mercer jim(a)reptiles.org +971 50 436-3874 ] [ I want to live forever, or die trying. ]

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Re: Ethernet won (was: RE: [funsec] Not so fast, broadband...)
by Fergie 14 Mar '07

14 Mar '07

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 - -- Sean Donelan <sean(a)donelan.com> wrote: >On Tue, 13 Mar 2007, andrew2(a)one.net wrote: >> Sure, as long as you're willing to fork over the cash for CPE capable of >> handling OC-XX linecards. The service cost is hardly the only cost >> associated with buying that kind of bandwidth. It's amusing to me that >> we're worrying about FTTH when some of the largest carriers are still >> not capable of delivering ethernet handoffs in some of those same top 30 >> cities. Don't we need to get there first before we start wiring >> everyone's home with fiber and a small router with an SFP? > >Bell Atlantic had ethernet access since the early 1990's, along with FDDI, > SMDS, ATM, etc, etc, etc and whatever else various government agencies >wanted to buy around Maryland, Virginia and Washington DC. Now AT&T, >Qwest and Verizon have metro ethernet access tariffs in major cities in >each of their territories. Ethernet seems to have won for data access >especially for 10Gbps and greater. > I know I saw a reference to "...wiring everyone's homes..." in the exchange above, so... Perhaps, depending on the last-mile and the consumer/business distinction, but up through the late 90's, all that was available to consumers (at best) was ISDN in Bell Atlantic territory -- at least in Northern Virginia. I left that area around 2000. >If you've got the money, they've got the ethernet for you. > >Unfortunately, "I want it" isn't a good business case. > True enough, and let's not confuse "business services" with "consumer services." The telcos/cablecos don't. :-) - - ferg -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP Desktop 9.5.3 (Build 5003) wj8DBQFF928iq1pz9mNUZTMRAop/AJ9LTDxC/7zRYNLNy9kv3+cFegNaxQCfafQ8 vdPns/UKKR49VZWzy8wFeTE= =1lvC -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- "Fergie", a.k.a. Paul Ferguson Engineering Architecture for the Internet fergdawg(at)netzero.net ferg's tech blog: http://fergdawg.blogspot.com/

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Can someone from aol.com postmaster support contact me offlist?
by Joseph W. Breu 14 Mar '07

14 Mar '07

We have been working with your organization to get a machine off of your blacklist for several weeks - to no avail. Thanks. -- Thanks, --------------------------------------------------------- Joseph W. Breu, CCNA phone : +1.319.268.5228 Senior Network Administrator fax : +1.319.266.8158 Cedar Falls Utilities cell : +1.319.493.1686 support: +1.319.268.5221 url : http://www.cfu.net

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Arbinet
by Nathan Allen Stratton 14 Mar '07

14 Mar '07

If anyone has feedback on Arbinet please drop me a private email. ><> Nathan Stratton CTO, Voila IP Communications nathan at robotics.net nathan at voilaip.com http://www.robotics.net http://www.voilaip.com

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RE: [funsec] Not so fast, broadband providers tell big users (fwd)
by michael.dillon＠bt.com 14 Mar '07

14 Mar '07

> I do admit that I haven't been keeping up on BPL technology lately, as > I am not in [and know only one person living in] an area where power > lines are the only cabled connection to the world. My point was more > that there are areas where it's simply impractical to put out many of > the today-common technologies for broadband. In British Columbia, Canada, they replaced the copper intercity network with fibre back in the early 90s. Maybe intercity is the wrong word considering I saw them running fibre 25 miles from Enderby to Mabel Lake. Look here on Google Maps http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=enderby+bc&ll=50.595007,-118.970 947&spn=0.332142,0.86792 There is actually a road to Mabel lake which you can see in the satellite photo snaking through a valley of small farms. Most of those brown patches are cutblocks up in the mountains where they have harvested logs and nobody lives up there. There is a village at the intersection where a road goes south and another where the road meets the lake. At the time, a telco worker told me that they were mining copper, i.e. they chopped up and collected the copper cable after the fibre came online. When I did some work in another BC city, Prince Rupert, we faced the problem of how to get broadband into the city because the main connection was microwave bounced off a station on top of a nearby mountain. Hiway 16 into the city http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=prince+rupert+bc&ie=UTF8&om=1&z= 10&ll=54.24597,-130.001221&spn=0.380349,1.255188&iwloc=addr ran for a long way with rocky cliffs above on one side and rocky cliffs below to the river on the other side. The only place to put fibre would be to plow right into the gravel fill under the pavement. I don't know if they ever did that but, in general, if people live in a location, there should be a feasible way to get fibre there. It might cost a lot, but that is another question. In mountainous areas with low population, then some form of point-to-point wireless such as microwave, wifi multihop or optical wireless can be used. Note that in really wild and hairy areas, you can get away with laying fibre on top of the ground although I doubt that any "official" organization would accept that. I remember a guy who lived out towards Mabel Lake who powered a water pump for his cattle by running a parallel fence wire under the power lines and stealing a few watts by induction. Really, people in remote rural areas need to band together and do the research to find out how others are solving these problems in other states, other countries and even other continents, such as Africa. --Michael Dillon

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