May 2005 - Test - lists.nanog.org

Updated: Agenda topics for NANOG 34
by Steve Feldman 04 May '05

04 May '05

We've added some new talks and panels to the agenda this week, and they're marked with a *: GENERAL SESSION --------------- * - Internet Exchange Operator Panel Chris Malayter, TDS Telecom, moderator Mike Hughes, LINX Dave Meyer, OregonIX Tom Bechly, MCI/MAE Troy Davis, SIX Celeste Anderson, Pacific Wave * - Inter-AS Traffic Engineering Case Studies as Requirements for IPv6 Multihoming Solutions Jason Schiller, UUNET * - XSP Security Vulnerabilities Panel Martin Hannigan, Versign, moderator Patrick Gilmore, Akamai Technologies Aaron Hughes, Teremark/NOTA Chris Malayter, TDS Telecom Chris Morrow, MCI Richard Steenbergen, N-Layer * - Regional Internet Registry/WSIS Update Ray Plzak, ARIN * - VoIP Overview for Operators Eugene Lew, NeuStar * - Moonv6 Update Scott Gross, MCI - DNS Anycast Stability Daniel Karrenberg, RIPE - Design Decisions and Architecture Analysis of a Global 10G Backbone (We Do it, so You Don't Have To) Vijay Gill, Time Warner - Securing Carrier VoIP: Session Border Control Hadriel Kaplan, Avici - Anatomy of a Leak: AS9121 (or, "How We Learned To Start Worrying and Hate Maximum Prefix Limits") Alin C. Popescu, Brian J. Premore, and Todd Underwood, Renesys - Building Nameserver Clusters with Free Software Joe Abley, ISC - Trust Reflection: A Distributed Approach to PGP Key Signing at Multi-Day Events Joe Abley, ISC - Anycast Measurements Used to Highlight Routing Instabilities Peter Boothe; Randy Bush, IIJ - Beyond 10 Gigabit Ethernet Subramanian Krishnamurthy, Force10 - Internet Mini-Cores: Local Communications in the Internet's "Spur" Regions Steve Gibbard, PCH - The Spoofer Project: Inferring the Extent of Internet Source Address Filtering on the Internet Robert Beverly, MIT - Network-Wide Inter-Domain Routing Policies: Design and Realization Olaf Maennel, RIPE; Anja Feldmann and Christian Reiser, Technical University Munich; Ruediger Volk and Hagen Boehm, Deutsche Telekom BOFS ---- * - BGP Analysis Tools BOF (Sunday 3:30-5:00 p.m.) Lixia Zhang and Mohit Lad, UCLA Dan Massey, Colorado State Univ. Manish Karir, Merit - ISP Security and NSP-SEC BOF IX (Monday evening) - Peering BOF IX (Monday evening) William B. Norton, Equinix, moderator - INOC-DBA BoF with INOC-DBA Operators (Monday evening) Gaurab Raj Upadhaya, PCH, moderator ----- End forwarded message -----

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Re: On the record - debunking technical fallacies
by David Barak 04 May '05

04 May '05

--- Dean Anderson <dean(a)av8.com> wrote: > On Tue, 3 May 2005, David Barak wrote: > > > Dean has weighed in on topics such as router > architecture and the > > ubiquitousness of packet-based-load-balancing in > backbone networks, and > > been thoroughly wrong. > > I never said that PPLB is ubiquitous (widely > used--for those not so used > to big words). I said that it is possible to see > it. And that if you see > it, it will not work with anycast TCP DNS. Please forgive my misunderstanding. However, if PPLB is NOT widely used, why would you particularly care about its effects? Avian Carriers are not widely used either, and I don't much care about their effect on RTT... > Second, the router architecture issue about whether > PPLB was possible on > certain routers. It is possible on a great number of > routers. But there > are some details I missed. Here I disagree: you made statements about the default behavior of Cisco and Juniper routers which reflected an incorrect understanding of the actual workings and deployed configurations of same. My argument that strenuous assertions of incorrect facts weakens credibility holds. > Please don't put (wrong) words in my mouth, and then > say I'm wrong. I apologize if I misquote or distort in any way, it is certainly not my intent. Any search of my previous postings to NANOG would show that I attempt to be accurate in representing and commenting on others' opinions. David Barak Need Geek Rock? Try The Franchise: http://www.listentothefranchise.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

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Re: [dnsop] DNS Anycast revisited (fwd)
by Dean Anderson 04 May '05

04 May '05

This was Vixie's last post on the subject of Anycast on DNSOP. NB: Patrick Gilmore and Chris Morrow, note that Vixie agrees that HTTP anycast is a bad idea. Note the nonsense about anycast being "completely coherent". Note also that Vixie continues to ignore per-packet load balancing issues, and focuses on route-change times, instead. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: 29 Mar 2005 22:46:27 +0000 From: Paul Vixie <vixie(a)vix.com> To: dnsop(a)lists.uoregon.edu Subject: Re: [dnsop] DNS Anycast revisited david.conrad(a)nominum.com (David Conrad) writes: > In my experience, shared unicast DNS provides quite a few benefits, > particularly in the context of ISPs or services that need to be highly > available, at the cost of some additional routing configuration > complexity. There are, of course, situations in which the costs of > shared unicast DNS outweigh the benefits, but I've found those situations > to be rare in larger networks. i figure this is as good a time to mention this as any. david conrad was the first voice for wide scale ipv4 anycast of root name servers, and when f-root started deploying this (in the months before the october 2002 ddos) it was because david and i had been sharing an office and talking about it. ("and it makes for great security/resiliency slideware.") for the record, i remain convinced that unowned anycast (where the prefix being advertised isn't solely controlled by a single entity worldwide) is dangerous and should not be done except in cases like AS112 (www.as112.net) ("but it makes for great socialist-internet slideware.") while i'm on the subject, i also remain convinced that using anycast to do distributed load balancing for applications like WWW, on the assumption that the path you heard a dns query on is instructive as to what content would be best to answer with, is silly, and will more often do harm or do nothing than do good. (and i've told akamai and speedera this many times.) ("but it makes for great marketing slideware.") lest anyone be confused, ultradns's anycast for .ORG is completely coherent and doesn't admit the possibility of giving out different responses from different anycast nodes for policy reasons or any other reason, and so it's an example of "good" anycast the way i count such things. finally, a word about tcp. even the most pessimistic route-change measurements (from verisign and IIJ) wouldn't affect tcp performance for transactions as short-lived as occur with dns queries. but that's not a justification for switching to tcp. if we believe that EDNS0's buffer size management isn't good enough, then we can bring back the MD bit from an old EDNS1 proposal. but we won't be holding full tcp session state in dns servers. nope nope nope. -- Paul Vixie . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html

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FCC To Require 911 for VoIP
by Fergie (Paul Ferguson) 04 May '05

04 May '05

A rather important turn of events. http://www.newsfactor.com/story.xhtml?story_id=33733 - ferg -- "Fergie", a.k.a. Paul Ferguson Engineering Architecture for the Internet fergdawg(a)netzero.net or fergdawg(a)sbcglobal.net ferg's tech blog: http://fergdawg.blogspot.com/

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On the record - debunking technical fallacies
by Michael.Dillon＠radianz.com 04 May '05

04 May '05

> it does no good for me to filter out the crackpots > if the rest of you are just > going to keep on replying to same. so, as RAH had > LL say: "never try to teach > a pig to sing, it wastes your time and annoys the pig." I believe it is still necessary (and a good thing) to post messages on the record that debunk technical fallacies. This mailing list is archived on more than one website and indexed by search engines. If we ignore technical fallacies without explaining why and how they are wrong, then there is a risk that learners will read those technical fallacies and create future de facto standards based on them. However, Jay Ashworth has now set up the Best Practices wiki at http://bestpractices.wikicities.com/wiki/Main_Page Perhaps that is a better place to have these technical arguments? --Michael Dillon

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Re: SMTP AUTH
by Dave Stewart 04 May '05

04 May '05

At 01:53 PM 5/3/2005, you wrote: >-- >Av8 Internet Prepared to pay a premium for better service? >www.av8.net faster, more reliable, better service >617 344 9000 All this argument about a guy whose business website is a GIF, with 4 links above it, 2 of which point to a machine that's refusing connections? And whose signup page consists of an html tag and a body tag (and that's it... regardless of how much fater, more reliable or better the service is... you can't sign up for it online)... C'mon folks... let's get back to the usual complaining about the size of the global routing table :)

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connect.com.au contact?
by tls＠panix.com 04 May '05

04 May '05

NetBSD.ORG's trouble-ticket system is currently being overwhelmed by a virus attack facilitated by connect.com.au (which is bouncing viral mail to forged From: addresses corresponding to trouble tickets at NetBSD.ORG) We don't want to have to dump all mail from connect.com.au; they seem to have real users (some of whom participate in our mailing lists). Does anyone have a contact there who might be able to correct the dumb behaviour of their mail system?

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msu.edu abuse contact?
by Steven Champeon 04 May '05

04 May '05

Could whoever is responsible for the machine at 35.11.141.251 please contact me offlist or otherwise investigate the box, which has already sent several hundred viruses to hotmail.com addresses with forged senders in my domain? I reported it yesterday to abuse/postmaster but have heard nothing back, and have received a couple hundred more bounces since. Anyone with an appropriate MSU contact they can forward this on to feel free to do so. Thanks! -- hesketh.com/inc. v: +1(919)834-2552 f: +1(919)834-2554 w: http://hesketh.com join us! http://hesketh.com/about/careers/account_manager.html join us!

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Botnets Used to Host DNS for Phishing
by Fergie (Paul Ferguson) 03 May '05

03 May '05

Not sure how many of you actually keep up with the daily handler's diary over at the ISC, but today's entry really reaffirms the seriousness, and "Alice-in-Wonderland-rabbit-hole- depth," that these issues are getting to be. More than just a minor annoyance... Pointer: http://isc.sans.org/diary.php?date=2005-05-03 - ferg -- "Fergie", a.k.a. Paul Ferguson Engineering Architecture for the Internet fergdawg(a)netzero.net or fergdawg(a)sbcglobal.net ferg's tech blog: http://fergdawg.blogspot.com/

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Slashdot: Providers Ignoring DNS TTL?
by Fergie (Paul Ferguson) 03 May '05

03 May '05

Interesting thread on /. -- http://ask.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/04/18/198259&tid=95&tid=128&tid=4 - ferg -- "Fergie", a.k.a. Paul Ferguson Engineering Architecture for the Internet fergdawg(a)netzero.net or fergdawg(a)sbcglobal.net ferg's tech blog: http://fergdawg.blogspot.com/

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