October 2004 - Test - lists.nanog.org

Energy consumption vs % utilization?
by Gregory (Grisha) Trubetskoy 27 Oct '04

27 Oct '04

Sorry, this is somewhat OT. I'm looking for information on energy consumption vs percent utilization. In other words if your datacenter consumes 720 MWh per month, yet on average your servers are 98% underutilized, you are wasting a lot of energy (a hot topic these days). Does anyone here have any real data on this? Grisha

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[Insight?] OutPut Drops Cisco 7206VXR
by Gyorfy, Shawn 27 Oct '04

27 Oct '04

What's up all, I have a question, maybe some have experienced this before- let me paint the picture for you first - We are running VoIP- customer's are experiencing static. I have a DS3 going for a Cisco 10k router to a Cisco 7206VXR M2T-T3+ pa Interface. As of right now, the current usage is about 5.5Mbps with an input rate of about 1425pps and output rate of 756. The Fast Ethernet is connected to an Extreme Switch. The FastE's usage right now is about 20Mbps with an input rate of 868pps and an output of 1541pps. On the FastE - we are seeing Output drops. They were at a constant interval, when we were running IOS c7200-p-mz.123-9a. As per cisco, we upgraded the IOS to c7200-p-mz.123-10 because of a possible buffer leak. Rather than just upgrading the IOS on the current box, we swapped it out to a new box and still recv output drops and Now the puppy decides to reboot every 15 minutes returning a, "System returned to ROM by bus error at PC 0x60132C44, address 0xE16E2CD at 13:38:47 UTC Tue Oct 26 2004" Questions: (a) What would be causing the output errors - can't the processor and memory handle that? (b) what is that bus error? Thanks all, shawn.

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RE: [Insight?] OutPut Drops Cisco 7206VXR
by Church, Chuck 27 Oct '04

27 Oct '04

Isn't weighted fair queueing generally a bad idea on a LAN interface? Chuck Church Lead Design Engineer CCIE #8776, MCNE, MCSE Netco Government Services - Design & Implementation Team 1210 N. Parker Rd. Greenville, SC 29609 Home office: 864-335-9473 Cell: 703-819-3495 cchurch(a)netcogov.com PGP key: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x4371A48D -----Original Message----- From: owner-nanog(a)merit.edu [mailto:owner-nanog@merit.edu] On Behalf Of Gyorfy, Shawn Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2004 10:49 AM To: 'jkreger(a)lwolenczak.net' Cc: nanog(a)merit.edu Subject: RE: [Insight?] OutPut Drops Cisco 7206VXR Yeah - we have traffic shaping: policy-map Outbound-Transmission-To-Core (We have 10) class Expedited-Forwarding-To-Core priority percent 50 class Hanover_13364_14025_37272-TS-To-Core shape average 1536000 192000 15000 class Queller_3266_3268_30989-TS-To-Core shape average 700000 87500 15000 . . . (10) FastEthernet0/0 is up, line protocol is up Hardware is DEC21140A, address is 0001.636e.1c00 (bia 0001.636e.1c00) Description: Connected to Extreme Summit48 Internet address is MTU 1500 bytes, BW 100000 Kbit, DLY 100 usec, reliability 255/255, txload 12/255, rxload 3/255 Encapsulation ARPA, loopback not set Keepalive set (10 sec) Full-duplex, 100Mb/s, 100BaseTX/FX ARP type: ARPA, ARP Timeout 04:00:00 Last input 00:00:21, output 00:00:00, output hang never Last clearing of "show interface" counters 00:37:12 Input queue: 0/75/0/0 (size/max/drops/flushes); Total output drops: 5397 Queueing strategy: weighted fair Output queue: 0/1000/64/0 (size/max total/threshold/drops) Conversations 0/82/256 (active/max active/max total) Reserved Conversations 0/0 (allocated/max allocated) Available Bandwidth 25000 kilobits/sec 5 minute input rate 1505000 bits/sec, 979 packets/sec 5 minute output rate 5084000 bits/sec, 1590 packets/sec 2028319 packets input, 434456929 bytes Received 3 broadcasts, 0 runts, 0 giants, 0 throttles 0 input errors, 0 CRC, 0 frame, 0 overrun, 0 ignored 0 watchdog 0 input packets with dribble condition detected 3453733 packets output, 1359654191 bytes, 0 underruns 0 output errors, 0 collisions, 0 interface resets 0 babbles, 0 late collision, 0 deferred 0 lost carrier, 0 no carrier 0 output buffer failures, 0 output buffers swapped out Serial2/0 is up, line protocol is up Hardware is M1T-T3+ pa Description: ny-0200 V#51HFGL605916 (DS3 to 39 Broadway POP) Internet address is MTU 4470 bytes, BW 44210 Kbit, DLY 200 usec, reliability 255/255, txload 8/255, rxload 29/255 Encapsulation PPP, LCP Open Open: CDPCP, IPCP, crc 16, loopback not set Keepalive set (10 sec) Restart-Delay is 0 secs Last input 00:00:00, output 00:00:00, output hang never Last clearing of "show interface" counters 00:37:49 Input queue: 1/75/0/0 (size/max/drops/flushes); Total output drops: 0 Queueing strategy: weighted fair Output queue: 0/1000/64/0 (size/max total/threshold/drops) Conversations 0/10/256 (active/max active/max total) Reserved Conversations 0/0 (allocated/max allocated) Available Bandwidth 11052 kilobits/sec 5 minute input rate 5029000 bits/sec, 1584 packets/sec 5 minute output rate 1437000 bits/sec, 966 packets/sec 3460149 packets input, 1351120603 bytes, 0 no buffer Received 0 broadcasts, 0 runts, 0 giants, 0 throttles 0 parity 0 input errors, 0 CRC, 0 frame, 0 overrun, 0 ignored, 0 abort 2005303 packets output, 418156501 bytes, 0 underruns 0 output errors, 0 applique, 0 interface resets 0 output buffer failures, 0 output buffers swapped out 0 carrier transitions rxLOS inactive, rxLOF inactive, rxAIS inactive txAIS inactive, rxRAI inactive, txRAI inactive -----Original Message----- From: jkreger(a)lwolenczak.net [mailto:jkreger@lwolenczak.net] Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2004 10:55 AM To: Gyorfy, Shawn Subject: Re: [Insight?] OutPut Drops Cisco 7206VXR Do you have any rate limiting on the Ethernet interface? The bus error.. I would say let cisco just replace your gear... that dosen't sound good. How is the bandwidth usage soo different? That dosen't sound right.... -Justin On Tue, 26 Oct 2004, Gyorfy, Shawn wrote: > > What's up all, > > I have a question, maybe some have experienced this before- let me paint the > picture for you first - We are running VoIP- customer's are experiencing > static. > > I have a DS3 going for a Cisco 10k router to a Cisco 7206VXR M2T-T3+ pa > Interface. As of right now, the current usage is about 5.5Mbps with an > input rate of about 1425pps and output rate of 756. > > The Fast Ethernet is connected to an Extreme Switch. The FastE's usage > right now is about 20Mbps with an input rate of 868pps and an output of > 1541pps. > > On the FastE - we are seeing Output drops. They were at a constant > interval, when we were running IOS c7200-p-mz.123-9a. As per cisco, we > upgraded the IOS to c7200-p-mz.123-10 because of a possible buffer leak. > Rather than just upgrading the IOS on the current box, we swapped it out to > a new box and still recv output drops and Now the puppy decides to reboot > every 15 minutes returning a, "System returned to ROM by bus error at PC > 0x60132C44, address 0xE16E2CD at 13:38:47 UTC Tue Oct 26 2004" > > Questions: (a) What would be causing the output errors - can't the > processor and memory handle that? > (b) what is that bus error? > > > Thanks all, > > shawn. > > > > > >

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RE: Energy consumption vs % utilization?
by Hannigan, Martin 26 Oct '04

26 Oct '04

Sure but colo's dont operate on variances of power based on CPU. They operate on committed power to cabinet i.e. 120W per cabinet etc. and the ability to cool a fully loaded facility. If you had a thousand CPU's use 1W more all at the same time it's equal to about 9.5A. 1KX2W = 20A, 1KX3W=31A, etc. etc. -- Martin Hannigan (c) 617-388-2663 VeriSign, Inc. (w) 703-948-7018 Network Engineer IV Operations & Infrastructure hannigan(a)verisign.com > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-nanog(a)merit.edu [mailto:owner-nanog@merit.edu]On Behalf Of > james edwards > Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2004 4:18 PM > To: Alex Rubenstein > Cc: nanog(a)merit.edu > Subject: Re: Energy consumption vs % utilization? > > > > > Thats an insane statement. > > > > Are you saying, "You are only wasting money on things if you aren't > > profitable" ? > > > > /action shakes head. > > No, I am not but my statement did sure sound like that was what I was > saying. > I do think it is apples or oranges comparing CPU % to total > power used and > coming up > with a wasted factor. My colo needs X amps/hour just to run > at idle, I don't > call this waste. > It is the cost of doing business. Power factor causes losses. > So you need > enough customers to cover > this and other expenses. > > I guess we need a definition of waste here. > > I would say the the heat produced by pulling all the amp/hrs > is waste. It > could be possible to harvest > this and reuse it elsewhere. > > So, just because you are profitable does not mean there is no > waste but it > also depends on how you > classify waste. Also, do the methods to avoid this waste > justify (pay for > over time) their use. > > James H. Edwards > Routing and Security Administrator > At the Santa Fe Office: Internet at Cyber Mesa > jamesh(a)cybermesa.com noc(a)cybermesa.com > http://www.cybermesa.com/ContactCM > (505) 795-7101 >

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802.1x Port Security
by Eric Brown 26 Oct '04

26 Oct '04

We are trying to find a switch that will offer port security (mac address filtering to prevent a hub on a port) and 802.1x to get the machines in these scenarios onto the right vlan: Machine without a 802.1x supplicant software or the 802.1x software disabled: put them into the guest vlan Machine with 802.1x software, but the machine is not one of ours and is not authenticated: put them into the guest vlan One of our machines with 802.1x and is authenticated: put into the authenticated vlan. We've tried this with an HP 2626 with the latest OS (8.53) with both 802.1x port-access and port-security (learn modes port-access and limited-continuous) enabled, but scenario 1 fails. Has anyone had success using a guest vlan scenario when implementing 802.1x with both port-access and port-security enabled. If so what kind of switch did you use? Thanks! Eric ebrown(a)simstar.com

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RE: Energy consumption vs % utilization?
by Hannigan, Martin 26 Oct '04

26 Oct '04

This is far more complicated than this. That's why I suggested the Datacenters list. A lot is determined not just by your revenue target per square foot, but cooling, your distribution, your breaker density and sizing, etc. -M< -- Martin Hannigan (c) 617-388-2663 VeriSign, Inc. (w) 703-948-7018 Network Engineer IV Operations & Infrastructure hannigan(a)verisign.com > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-nanog(a)merit.edu [mailto:owner-nanog@merit.edu]On Behalf Of > Nils Ketelsen > Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2004 2:09 PM > To: nanog(a)merit.edu > Subject: Re: Energy consumption vs % utilization? > > > > On Tue, Oct 26, 2004 at 01:52:51PM -0400, Gregory (Grisha) > Trubetskoy wrote: > > > Sorry, this is somewhat OT. > > Also Sorry, but I think the question itself is completely flawed. > > > I'm looking for information on energy consumption vs > percent utilization. > > In other words if your datacenter consumes 720 MWh per > month, yet on > > average your servers are 98% underutilized, you are wasting > a lot of > > energy (a hot topic these days). Does anyone here have any > real data on > > this? > > What does 98% underutilized mean? > > What is the utilization of a device with fully built out RAM > that is used > to 100%, when the CPU is used 2% only? > > What is the utilization of a system, that uses two percent of the > memory and two percent of the available CPU time, when the policy > of the top secret organization owning this system requires, that the > application is running on a seperated machine? > > Sure many machines might be (computing power wise) able to > handle Firewalling, Routing, Webserving, Database Serving, > Mailserving and > storing accounting data, but still there might be very good reasons to > seperate these on different machines. > > If you take points like policy requirement (see above: > an application might by policy utilize a machine to 100%), > different types > of resources, failover etc. into account, you might end up > with different numbers then just looking at the CPU (and I > have the feeling that is what you did or were intending to do). > > Actually I think nobody does calculate "real" utilization, > as there are a lot of soft factors to be taken into account. > > Nils >

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RE: [Insight?] OutPut Drops Cisco 7206VXR
by John Neiberger 26 Oct '04

26 Oct '04

>On the FastE - we are seeing Output drops. They were at a constant >interval, when we were running IOS c7200-p-mz.123-9a. As per cisco, we >upgraded the IOS to c7200-p-mz.123-10 because of a possible buffer leak. Have you tried using a more stable IOS, like 12.2 GD? Or are you required to use 12.3? It might be enlightening to try 12.2 to see if at least some of these issues go away, particularly the bus errors. Regards, John --

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Sanvine
by Paul Bradford 26 Oct '04

26 Oct '04

Hi, is there anybody out there using Sandvine for traffic shaping.. what are the ins/outs of it? Thanks, Paul -- Paul A. Bradford Senior Network Engineer Adelphia Communications AS19548 and AS7843 Voice: 814-274-1353 AIM: llyolf

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Okay, I'm just going to _assume_...
by Bill Woodcock 26 Oct '04

26 Oct '04

...that there's some operational content somewhere in here: http://www.cisco.com/edu/peterpacket/ ...though I'm on kind of a slow link, so I'm still looking. My eternal thanks to Suresh for finding this. My day is complete. -Bill

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CanSecWest/core05 Call for Papers - May 4-6 2005 - Deadline December 6 2004
by Dragos Ruiu 26 Oct '04

26 Oct '04

CALL FOR PAPERS CanSecWest/core05 Network Security Training Conference http://cansecwest.com May 4-6 2005 Vancouver, B.C. Canada CanSecWest would like to announce the call for papers of the spring, sixth annual, CanSecWest/core05 network security training conference and the announcement of the final set of presentations for the PacSec.jp/core04 conference. The CanSecWest/core05 conference will be held on May 4-6 at the Mariott Renaissance in downtown Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada. The conference focuses on emerging information security tutorials and technology. Please submit all proposals for presentations by December 6. This year we will continue to also have two kinds of presentations, the normal one hour tutorials, and there will again be a session of the popular "lightning talks": 5 minutes max (BigHook/Gong enforced) and 1-3 slides. Selected "lightning talk" presenters will receive registration discounts (or rebates) - travel and accomodations are their responsibility. "Lightning talk" submissions should follow the same submission guidelines below. Deadline for "lightning talk" submissions is January 17th, 2005. The conference is responsible for travel and accomodations for the tutorial speakers. If you have a proposal for a tutorial session then please email a synopsis of the material and your biography, papers, and speaking background to core05(a)cansecwest.com. Tutorials are one hour in length. Only slides will be needed for the April paper deadline, full text does not have to be submitted. The CanSecWest/core05 conference consists of tutorials on technical details about current issues, innovative techniques and best practices in the information security realm. The audiences are a multi-national mix of professionals involved on a daily basis with security work: security product vendors, programmers, security officers, and network administrators. We give preference to technical details and education for a technical audience. The conference itself is a single track series of presentations in a lecture theater environment. The presentations offer speakers the opportunity to showcase on-going research and collaborate with peers while educating and highlighting advancements in security products and techniques. The focus is on innovation, tutorials, and education instead of overt product pitches. Some commercial content is tolerated, but it needs to be backed up by a technical presenter - either giving a valuable tutorial and best practices instruction or detailing significant new technology in the products. Paper proposals should consist of the following information: 1) Presenter, and geographical location (country of origin/passport) and contact info (e-mail, postal address, phone, fax). 2) Employer and/or affiliations. 3) Brief biography, list of publications and papers. 4) Any significant presentation and educational experience/background. 5) Topic synopsis, Proposed paper title, and a one paragraph description. 6) Reason why this material is innovative or significant or an important tutorial. 7) Optionally, any samples of prepared material or outlines ready. Please forward the above information to core05(a)cansecwest.com. to be considered for placement on the speaker roster. The selected papers for PacSec.jp/core04 are: George Kurtz - Google Hacking: Searching for ways to stop hackers. Shane "K2" Macaulay & Dino Dai Zovi - Wireless vulnerabilities from rogue access points. Nico Fischbach - Voice Over IP Security Maximillian Dornseif - 0wn3d by an iPod: Firewire/1394 Issues Nico Fischbach & Toby Kohlenberg - Best methods for detecting anomalies in global networks David Meltzer - Hybrid approaches for optimized network discovery Nicolas Brulez - Windows virus executable file infections and heuristic detection. Ivan Arce - Analyzing exploit code quality. Hiroaki Etoh - Stack Protection Systems (ProPolice, XP SP2...). Laurent Oudot - Countering Attack Deception Techniques. Greg Smith - Security Tutorial for Administrators. Ejovi Nuwhere - Inside Jyukinet: The Audit. More information on the PacSec.jp/core04 conference in Tokyo on November 11-12 can be found at http://pacsec.jp Advance discount registration is now open for CanSecWest/core05 at http://cansecwest.com thanks, --dr -- World Security Pros. Cutting Edge Training, Tools, and Techniques Tokyo, Japan Nov 11-12 2004 http://pacsec.jp pgpkey http://dragos.com/ kyxpgp

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