November 2003 - Test - lists.nanog.org

RE: Router with 2 (or more) interfaces in same network
by Truman, Michelle, RTSLS 11 Nov '03

11 Nov '03

Well you can do it if you are bridging... Michelle Truman CCIE # 8098 Principal Technical Consultant AT&T Solutions Center 651-998-0949 mtruman(a)att.com -----Original Message----- From: Leo Bicknell [mailto:bicknell@ufp.org] Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2003 8:56 AM To: nanog(a)trapdoor.merit.edu Subject: Re: Router with 2 (or more) interfaces in same network In a message written on Tue, Nov 11, 2003 at 08:35:34AM +0000, Sugar, Sylvia wrote: > I am curious to know if its possible to have a router with its two interfaces, say configured as, > 1.1.1.1/16 and 1.1.1.2/16. Theoretically, i see nothing which can stop a router from doing this. Cisco's don't let you do this. I have always considered that broken, although I'm sure Cisco thinks it's a feature. Other routers (of note FreeBSD boxes) do this just fine. In almost all cases I've seen it done it was for more bandwidth to the box (typically inbound only, because there are no good tools on Unix boxes to split the traffic between the outgoing interfaces). I've seen it done a lot in labs where you have something like this: client 1 | | client 5 client 2 +----B----+ client 6 client 3 | | client 7 client 4 | | client 8 | | file-server-router-box | Internet Where all the clients are in one subnet, there are two interfaces, and the networks are separated (today the left and right groups on two different switches, I drew the old school picture of thinwire with a bridge in the middle. While this will work (with some boxes, again Cisco's won't let you configure the same subnet on two interfaces), it is at best a hack that helps in some specific instances. It is quite clearly not good network design. Maybe they have one of those specific instances but I'd get a lot more detail and be sure before you offer up this hack as otherwise you've got a messy config that didn't do what the customer wanted anyway. -- Leo Bicknell - bicknell(a)ufp.org - CCIE 3440 PGP keys at http://www.ufp.org/~bicknell/ Read TMBG List - tmbg-list-request(a)tmbg.org, www.tmbg.org

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RE: Router with 2 (or more) interfaces in same network
by Lucas Iglesias 11 Nov '03

11 Nov '03

If you bridge, you are actually not doing routing =) You can configure a channel group with FE, but anyway it would be concider by the router as if you have only 1 interface. Regards. -----Mensaje original----- De: Frank Louwers [mailto:frank@openminds.be] Enviado el: Martes, 11 de Noviembre de 2003 11:22 a.m. Para: Lucas Iglesias CC: 'Sugar, Sylvia'; nanog(a)trapdoor.merit.edu Asunto: Re: Router with 2 (or more) interfaces in same network On Tue, Nov 11, 2003 at 11:19:21AM -0300, Lucas Iglesias wrote: > > As I know, according to the routing theory, it has no sense to have 2 > interfaces on the same net. what if you bridge on one interface, but want to have a second "backup" interface in case your config/router fscks up with the bridge? Vriendelijke groeten, Frank Louwers -- Openminds bvba www.openminds.be Tweebruggenstraat 16 - 9000 Gent - Belgium

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RE: Router with 2 (or more) interfaces in same network
by Lucas Iglesias 11 Nov '03

11 Nov '03

As I know, according to the routing theory, it has no sense to have 2 interfaces on the same net. At least, on Cisco routers is not allowed. kind regards. -----Mensaje original----- De: Sugar, Sylvia [mailto:truesylvia@yahoo.co.uk] Enviado el: Martes, 11 de Noviembre de 2003 05:36 a.m. Para: nanog(a)trapdoor.merit.edu Asunto: Router with 2 (or more) interfaces in same network Hi, I am curious to know if its possible to have a router with its two interfaces, say configured as, 1.1.1.1/16 and 1.1.1.2/16. Theoretically, i see nothing which can stop a router from doing this. But practically, is it of any use? And if used, then, when and why will somebody want to use such a kind of configuration? Would appreciate if somebody could enlighten me on this. Regards, Rasputin P.S. I have a customer who insists he wants to do this, without providing any explanations! ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://mail.messenger.yahoo.co.uk

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RE: Router with 2 (or more) interfaces in same network
by Shawn Solomon 11 Nov '03

11 Nov '03

I would guess that they actually want 1 of the following: Redundancy of some sort. Increased bandwidth to the router. -- Shawn Solomon Senior Network Engineer / Systems Design IHETS / ITN 317.263.8875 ssolomon(a)ind.net fx317.263.8831 -----Original Message----- From: Sugar, Sylvia [mailto:truesylvia@yahoo.co.uk] Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2003 3:36 AM To: nanog(a)trapdoor.merit.edu Subject: Router with 2 (or more) interfaces in same network Hi, I am curious to know if its possible to have a router with its two interfaces, say configured as, 1.1.1.1/16 and 1.1.1.2/16. Theoretically, i see nothing which can stop a router from doing this. But practically, is it of any use? And if used, then, when and why will somebody want to use such a kind of configuration? Would appreciate if somebody could enlighten me on this. Regards, Rasputin P.S. I have a customer who insists he wants to do this, without providing any explanations! ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://mail.messenger.yahoo.co.uk

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law enforcement contacts
by Alex Yuriev 10 Nov '03

10 Nov '03

Hi, Anyone has any good law enforcement contacts that have enough clue ( or could be educated in process ) to work on catching and nailing DOS originators? Please drop me email off the list. Alex

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Re: [Re: This may be stupid but.. ]
by joshua sahala 10 Nov '03

10 Nov '03

"Peter Galbavy" <peter.galbavy(a)knowtion.net> wrote: > > A willingness, nay - a NEED, to learn and be open to new concepts is > what forward moving technology sectors (like ours I hope) need. definately - however, i know of some very smart people, with a huge drive to learn, were relegated to clueless tasks because they didn't have many many years of experience. there is a distrubing trend amongst managers/etc where they think that if you haven't already done the job for several years, you can't learn to do it, or don't have the skill to do it. i am not saying that this is universal (as demonstrated by several posts here to that effect), but i think that these are exceptions > Acronyms mean sh*t. When involved in any hiring process, I actively > avoid CCIE/MSCE/etc. laden resumes. Mentioning once, fine. Using them > like religious phrases is an indictation of, well, stupidity. certifications are often necessary to open the door - granted if you were architecting internetworks when many of today's certified 'engineers' were still in grade school, then no, certifications are probably not needed. experience is a catch-22, you need experience to get a job, but you need a job to get experience. i am not saying that certifications are a panacea, but lacking the ability to say that i built $major_isp, my certs have helped me (a little) in getting past the recruiter/hr to where my technical skills can be demonstrated > > i'm recruiter-proof. i'm not sure i'd want anyone who wasn't. > > Aye. I have *never* used my CV/Resume in getting a job. I still have > one, but it's very out of date. never is a long time perhaps it is just the fact that i am 'new' to the field, but my resume has gotten me all but one job, and my resume indirectly got me that one. my slightly bitter $0.02 /joshua > Peter > > "Walk with me through the Universe, And along the way see how all of us are Connected. Feast the eyes of your Soul, On the Love that abounds. In all places at once, seemingly endless, Like your own existence." - Stephen Hawking -

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RE: [Re: This may be stupid but.. ]
by Wesley Vaux 10 Nov '03

10 Nov '03

I once was in a class sitting beside a CCIE that asked me what the command syntax was. I have no faith in the certified. -----Original Message----- From: Matt Levine [mailto:matt-keyword-nanog.aedae7@deliver3.com] Sent: Monday, November 10, 2003 2:50 PM To: Daniel Roesen Cc: Nanog List (E-mail) Subject: Re: [Re: This may be stupid but.. ] On Nov 10, 2003, at 2:38 PM, Daniel Roesen wrote: > > On Mon, Nov 10, 2003 at 12:51:55PM -0500, Fisher, Shawn wrote: >> I agree certifications are overated at best. >> >> Give me someone with the right attitude and I'll teach him anything. >> >> Showing the ability to get things done is the greatest skill imo. > > I once read the following and saved it away... > > "Hire and promote first on the basis of integrity; second, motivation; > third, capacity; fourth, understanding; fifth, knowledge; and last and > least, experience. Without integrity, motivation is dangerous; without > motivation, capacity is impotent; without capacity, understanding is > limited; without understanding, knowledge is meaningless; without > knowledge, experience is blind. Experience is easy to provide and > quickly put to good use by people with all the other qualities." > > Have no clue who's the origin. So what you're saying is you want cisco to certify people's integrity? :) > > > Best regards, > Daniel > > -- Matt Levine <matt(a)deliver3.com> "The Trouble with doing anything right the first time is that nobody appreciates how difficult it was." -BIX

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paging Motorola - please evacuate your ninja bots from route-views.oregon-ix.net
by Kai Schlichting 10 Nov '03

10 Nov '03

Paging Motorola. Please leave some system resources for the rest of us and LOG OFF when you're done. Thank you. bye,Kai sonet:~$ date Mon Nov 10 13:56:46 EST 2003 sonet:~$ telnet route-views.oregon-ix.net [....] route-views.oregon-ix.net>who Line User Host(s) Idle Location 2 vty 0 idle 1w3d gate01.mot.com 3 vty 1 idle 1w3d gate02.mot.com 4 vty 2 idle 1w3d 203.135.29.11 5 vty 3 idle 1w2d www.sohoskyway.net 6 vty 4 idle 1w3d mippet.ci.com.au 7 vty 5 idle 1w2d a65-124-16-8.svc.towardex.com 8 vty 6 idle 1w2d gate01.mot.com 9 vty 7 idle 1w2d gate02.mot.com 10 vty 8 idle 1w3d 216.140.58.174 11 vty 9 idle 1w3d host1.tla.com 12 vty 10 idle 1w3d gate01.mot.com 13 vty 11 idle 1w2d gate02.mot.com 14 vty 12 idle 1w3d gate01.mot.com 15 vty 13 idle 1w2d gate01.mot.com 16 vty 14 idle 2d19h gate02.mot.com 17 vty 15 idle 1w1d gate02.mot.com 18 vty 16 idle 1w1d gate01.mot.com 19 vty 17 idle 1w1d gate02.mot.com 20 vty 18 idle 1w1d gate01.mot.com 21 vty 19 idle 1w0d gate02.mot.com 22 vty 20 idle 1w0d gate02.mot.com 23 vty 21 idle 4d10h 203.130.226.203 24 vty 22 idle 5d23h gate02.mot.com 25 vty 23 idle 1w0d Blackberry.rt.ru 26 vty 24 idle 1w0d gate01.mot.com 27 vty 25 idle 1w0d gate02.mot.com 28 vty 26 idle 1w0d gate02.mot.com 29 vty 27 idle 1w0d gate01.mot.com 30 vty 28 idle 6d12h gate01.mot.com 31 vty 29 idle 3d18h gate02.mot.com 32 vty 30 idle 3d20h office.gill.force.vcn.com 33 vty 31 idle 4d16h gate02.mot.com 34 vty 32 idle 6d17h gate02.mot.com 35 vty 33 idle 2d13h gate02.mot.com 36 vty 34 idle 5d13h 203.130.226.203 37 vty 35 idle 4d22h gate01.mot.com 38 vty 36 idle 2d03h phlox.cs.wisc.edu 39 vty 37 idle 4d23h a207-99-126-144.svc.towardex.com 40 vty 38 idle 3d15h gate01.mot.com 41 vty 39 idle 3d14h gate02.mot.com 42 vty 40 idle 3d06h gate02.mot.com 43 vty 41 idle 4d05h gate02.mot.com 44 vty 42 idle 3d17h mail-out.hk.reach.com 45 vty 43 idle 3d12h gate02.mot.com 46 vty 44 idle 2d15h gate02.mot.com * 47 vty 45 idle 00:00:00 sonet.conti.nu 48 vty 46 idle 2d14h gate02.mot.com 49 vty 47 idle 2d22h gate02.mot.com 50 vty 48 idle 1d07h gate02.mot.com 51 vty 49 idle 2d01h gate02.mot.com 52 vty 50 idle 2d09h gate02.mot.com 53 vty 51 idle 00:00:14 ip-157-14.newcomamericas.net 54 vty 52 idle 00:04:10 office.gill.force.vcn.com 55 vty 53 idle 11:10:41 gate02.mot.com 56 vty 54 idle 00:00:34 gateway.panamsat.com 57 vty 55 idle 16:11:06 gate01.mot.com 58 vty 56 idle 01:40:51 johnnypc.csu.net 61 vty 59 idle 16:17:18 hq1.colosseum.com 62 vty 60 idle 2d00h gate02.mot.com 65 vty 63 idle 09:30:35 CPE-144-136-76-220.nsw.bigpond.net.au 69 vty 67 idle 00:04:49 turing.servers.luna.net 70 vty 68 idle 00:04:52 turing.servers.luna.net 71 vty 69 idle 00:04:47 turing.servers.luna.net 72 vty 70 idle 00:04:42 turing.servers.luna.net 73 vty 71 idle 00:04:45 turing.servers.luna.net 74 vty 72 idle 00:04:43 turing.servers.luna.net 76 vty 74 idle 00:04:41 turing.servers.luna.net Interface User Mode Idle Peer Address

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Re: This may be stupid but..
by Michael.Dillon＠radianz.com 10 Nov '03

10 Nov '03

> DO NOT SEND YOUR RESUME at this point of the application process. If > you do send your resume, we will assume you did not bother to > carefully read this job posting, and we will not consider your > application. > To begin taking the tests, please send your public SSH key to > jobs(a)telerama.com along with your email contact information. I like these two points. Essentially, they are ways of weeding out the large number of timewasters who just can't do the job. Who wants to open up their network infrastructure to someone who can't read and understand plain English? And how many truly experienced network engineers would not be able to generate an SSH public key if they don't already have one? But this type of technique can also be used with recruiters. It just means that you have to train them in how to identify candidates that you like. In past lives at other companies I've done this. For instance, I told the recruiters that MS certification was a bad thing and that I the only Cisco cert that was remotely interesting was CCIE. I also told them that at least half the resumes they submitted should have no certs at all. I explained the kind of UNIX experience that was good to have, i.e. using Linux or BSD at home. I also told them that I wouldn't see any candidates until I had interviewed them over the phone. This let me quickly weed out the evasive ones who were probably stretching the truth on their resumes. When I interview, I start out by asking one or two key questions that help me quickly get to the truth. For instance at one company, when I has hiring NOC folks, I started by asking them to explain traceroute to me. The answer that I wanted was one which showed that they had a detailed understanding of what was going on at the protocol level as the packets flowed through the network because that view of the network is needed to effectively troubleshoot problems. It did lead to one awkward situation with a 16 year-old who immediately started talking about ICMP echos with varying TTL and routers sending back ICMP echo-replies. I wanted to end the interview and hire him on the spot but it seemed unfair to give this young guy the idea that job interviews are that short. I believe that it is possible to train recruiters to ask one or two questions like this by giving them a few samples of the level of detail that you are looking for. For example I could have told a recruiter that the answer should mention TTL and echo-reply. If you shop for a recruiter who is willing to learn about your needs and properly select candidates according to *YOUR* requirements I think that recruiters can be much better than hiring directly. --Michael Dillon

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RE: [Re: This may be stupid but.. ]
by Fisher, Shawn 10 Nov '03

10 Nov '03

I agree certifications are overated at best. Give me someone with the right attitude and I'll teach him anything. Showing the ability to get things done is the greatest skill imo. -----Original Message----- From: Timothy R. McKee [mailto:tim@baseworx.net] Sent: Monday, November 10, 2003 11:48 AM To: joshua sahala Cc: Peter Galbavy; Richard Irving; Eric Brunner-Williams in Portland Maine; Vadim Antonov; John Brown (CV); Nanog List (E-mail) Subject: Re: [Re: This may be stupid but.. ] On Mon, 2003-11-10 at 11:36, joshua sahala wrote: > "Peter Galbavy" <peter.galbavy(a)knowtion.net> wrote: > > > Acronyms mean sh*t. When involved in any hiring process, I actively > > avoid CCIE/MSCE/etc. laden resumes. Mentioning once, fine. Using them > > like religious phrases is an indictation of, well, stupidity. > > certifications are often necessary to open the door - granted if you > were architecting internetworks when many of today's certified > 'engineers' were still in grade school, then no, certifications are > probably not needed. I consider myself one of the 'old guys' and all the experience in the world doesn't mean &%*$&%*$ to a recruiter OR a company hiring manager if you don't have the magic initials they've heard about behind your name. I was always too busy doing my 'real job' making the customers happy so I never spent time getting 'useless' certifications or developing networking relationships with other professionals for later use. Those of you with jobs, be very careful not to be lured into that trap. You've got to think of your future first and foremost. No one else will. Tim McKee > > > > i'm recruiter-proof. i'm not sure i'd want anyone who wasn't. > > > > Aye. I have *never* used my CV/Resume in getting a job. I still have > > one, but it's very out of date. > > never is a long time > > perhaps it is just the fact that i am 'new' to the field, but my resume > has gotten me all but one job, and my resume indirectly got me that one. > > my slightly bitter $0.02 > > /joshua > > > > > Peter > > > > > > > > "Walk with me through the Universe, > And along the way see how all of us are Connected. > Feast the eyes of your Soul, > On the Love that abounds. > In all places at once, seemingly endless, > Like your own existence." > - Stephen Hawking - -- Timothy R. McKee <tim(a)baseworx.net>

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