October 2003 - Test - lists.nanog.org

RE: Tomatoes for Verisign at NANOG 29
by Vachon, Scott 16 Oct '03

16 Oct '03

> all > those who approve > of the wildcards would put their token-of-choice in another pile. > Might I suggest the "joker" out of a deck of playing cards ? ; ) Learn more about Paymentech's payment processing services at www.paymentech.com THIS MESSAGE IS CONFIDENTIAL. This e-mail message and any attachments are proprietary and confidential information intended only for the use of the recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not print, distribute, or copy this message or any attachments. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender by return e-mail and delete this message and any attachments from your computer.

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Re: Tomatoes for Verisign at NANOG 29
by Owen DeLong 16 Oct '03

16 Oct '03

I have no religion about the particular choice of fruit/vegetable (yes, I know tomatoes are technically fruit). However, I think we should try to stick to Red and the symbolism of the tomato cannot be denied. It has long been used as a response to bad implementation and that is exactly what we are responding to here. I would welcome your oranges or any other fruit/vegetable of protest, but, I think tomatoes make the best statement. I have no financial or other interest in tomatoes (although I think they're tasty), and there is no tomato cabal of which I am aware. Owen --On Thursday, October 16, 2003 16:02 -0400 Robert Drake <rdrake(a)sprint.net> wrote: > You guys aren't members of a secret tomato vendor cabal or anything > are you? > > Is other fruit allowed during the silent protest? I'm thinking about > bringing oranges. > > :) > > Robert > > Owen DeLong(owen@delong.com)@2003-10-16 12:01:04 -0700: >> >> I would also suggest that we try to make contact with a second-harvest or >> other organization that may be able to use the tomatoes afterwards. >> >> Owen >> >> >> --On Thursday, October 16, 2003 11:36 -0700 "Wayne E. Bouchard" >> <web(a)typo.org> wrote: >> >> > >> > Just a brief statement that kinda goes without saying but I'll say it >> > anyway. >> > >> > >> > Although I'm not going to be there personally, I do intend to watch >> > the netcast. >> > >> > I would just ask (and I'm sure merit folks share this) that despite >> > the actions that have been taken by verisign and the conflicts etc, >> > that people please be curteous and not just outright harrass their >> > representatives but allow them to make their presentation as they >> > intend. (The last thing we need to do is lend credence to the >> > statements that have been made in the press regarding this community.) >> > >> > On Thu, Oct 16, 2003 at 11:19:59AM -0700, JC Dill wrote: >> >> >> >> Dan and Owen, I nominate you two for the tomato acquisition and >> >> distribution committee. >> >> >> >> To recap: At NANOG 29 in Chicago, on Monday October 20th at 9:15 am a >> >> session on "VeriSign's Wildcard Record: Effects and Responses" will be >> >> held, with Mark Kosters and Matt Larson from VeriSign and Suzanne >> >> Woolf from ISC: >> >> >> >> <http://www.nanog.org/mtg-0310/dns.html> >> >> >> >> If you are attending NANOG 29, please attend this session and wear a >> >> red shirt. If possible, please buy/bring a tomato. Take your tomato >> >> to the front of the room and place them in a pile before Verisign, to >> >> make it absolutely clear how you feel about Verisign's wildcards and >> >> sitefinder. Please do not throw your tomatoes. >> >> >> >> I wish I could be there! >> >> >> >> Now to make sure that someone with clue from the Chicago Sun Times and >> >> the Chicago Tribune are both there, with photographers. Does anyone >> >> on this list have any contacts at either of these papers? >> >> >> >> jc >> > >> > --- >> > Wayne Bouchard >> > web(a)typo.org >> > Network Dude >> > http://www.typo.org/~web/ >> >> >> > > -- > Robert Drake > Sprintlink NTAC Internet > +140 464 90 372 (03 45 3C 6F 04)

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Re: Tomatoes for Verisign at NANOG 29
by Stewart, William C (Bill), RTSLS 16 Oct '03

16 Oct '03

I have to agree with Scott. Be professional. Y'all can use tomato.net as examples if you want (though actually that one belongs to buydomains.com, which buys potentially resellable domain names.) A more important concern is that they keep mentioning that they've been talking to web users and looking out for the interests of web consumers, while not mentioning their impact on email users and consumers.

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RE: Tomatoes for Verisign at NANOG 29
by Dan Lockwood 16 Oct '03

16 Oct '03

I will do my best to get the tomatos. How many do you think we will need? Dan -----Original Message----- From: owner-nanog(a)merit.edu [mailto:owner-nanog@merit.edu] On Behalf Of JC Dill Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2003 12:12 To: NANOG Subject: Re: Tomatoes for Verisign at NANOG 29 At 12:00 PM 10/16/2003, Owen DeLong wrote: >Agreed. I plan to wear a red shirt and bring a tomatoe. The tomato >will sit quietly on the table near me. It will not be used as a >projectile no matter how much Verisign tries to convince me it should. >Really. I will not throw the tomato at Verisign no matter how much they >deserve it. > >Wayne is right. For this to have the desired effect, we need to make >it a peaceful and symbolic protest, not a brawl. EXACTLY. >I would also suggest that we try to make contact with a second-harvest >or other organization that may be able to use the tomatoes afterwards. Great idea! Can we count on Dan for tomato acquisition and for Owen for post-protest dispersal to a foodbank? jc (I so wish I could be there!) -- JC Dill 370 Altair #353 Sunnyvale, CA 94086 650-669-1664 jcdill(a)vo.cnchost.com AIM: UltraJCDill Y!IM: jcdill

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RE: Site Finder
by Dan Lockwood 16 Oct '03

16 Oct '03

Recognizing that I am not an 'expert', I have got to ask just one question. Can these people at Verisign really think that they know better than all of the real experts that have worked with/on the DNS over the years. It seems rather silly to assume that a few people have more knowledge than the collective community. Furthermore, I feel that Ray makes an excellent point in that the concensus seems to be that we, as the Internet community, do _NOT_ want this type of tinkering with something that works very well; especially since the purpose is to increase advertising revenue. Verisign is clearly acting against the concensus. What effective action can we take as a collective group to get the point across that we will not tollerate this type of behavior? Dan -----Original Message----- From: owner-nanog(a)merit.edu [mailto:owner-nanog@merit.edu] On Behalf Of Ray Bellis Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2003 8:08 To: nanog list Subject: Site Finder Quoting Rusty Lewis from http://verisign.com/corporate/news/2003/pr_20031007b.html?sl=070804 "We will continue to take feedback from both Internet users and the technical community on how we can ensure that the service is available for the many Internet users who clearly like it." Well that's very simple Rusty - stop screwing around with *our* DNS and write a plugin for IE to catch NXDOMAIN, just like the Google toolbar does. That'll allow 90% of the browsing population a *choice*, something the wildcard clearly does not. Ray -- Ray Bellis, MA(Oxon) - Technical Director community internet plc - ts.com Ltd Windsor House, 12 High Street, Kidlington, Oxford, OX5 2PJ tel: +44 1865 856000 email: ray.bellis(a)community.net.uk fax: +44 1865 856001 web: http://www.community.net.uk/

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Re: Tomatoes for Verisign at NANOG 29
by Scott Bradner 16 Oct '03

16 Oct '03

> Dan and Owen, I nominate you two for the tomato acquisition and > distribution committee. lets not tomatoes != knowledge (nor are an indicator of same) Scot

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Re: Tomatoes for Verisign at NANOG 29
by Howard C. Berkowitz 16 Oct '03

16 Oct '03

>>>If you are attending NANOG 29, please attend this session and wear a >>>red shirt. >> >>Ahem. Many of us are Star Trek experts, and it will take a LOT more than >>this to get people to wear a red shirt. >> >Huh? I'm somewhat familiar with Star Trek, and, I realize the red shirts >are usually the first to die Right the first time! >> > >Porjecting the movie shows some level of group leadership support. >Stacking tomatoes shows just how much of the community is opposed >to wildcards. I think in this case, a physical show of tomatoes is >more effective. You're right--it's just that I enjoy the movies as one of the worst implementations ever done. Seemed appropriate. The neatly stacked voting pyramid is an excellent idea, especially if there were any media coverage. Sort of reminiscent of the end of Conan the Destroyer, as the torches go out.

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Re: more on VeriSign to revive redirect service
by Michael.Dillon＠radianz.com 16 Oct '03

16 Oct '03

>Just out of curiousity, I wonder how many domain registrations those of us >on nanog represent? Contract sanctions from ICANN are one thing, taking >all of our business elsewhere might also be effective at getting a point >across (though it might also backfire - pushing Verisign to be even more >agressive at taking advantage of their positioning). There are alternative suppliers for registering domain names and SSL certs. Look here http://referrals.tucows.com/ for registrars that are alternatives to Verisign for .com and .net. Also, give your customers information about the .biz, .info and .us domains and ask them if they would choose those rather than .com. An awful lot of people want .com because they really don't know anything about the alternatives. In this day and age, people don't guess URLs anymore by sticking .com at the end of a word so there is no longer any advantage to using a .com domain name over a .biz or .info or .us. People learn about domain names from advertising or by clicking a link on a web page. In both cases .biz, .info and .us work just as well. And don't forget to hire away all the best people from Verisign to cripple their ability to execute effectively. If they are willing to hurt your business for their own profit, then why shouldn't you hurt their business for your profit? Remember, there is nothing inherent in Verisign's products that makes them better than the competing alternatives. Their only advantage is that their products were there first so people have formed the habit of buying from them without thinking. --Michael Dillon

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OT: Dark Fiber in Portland/Beaverton Area
by Brennan_Murphy＠NAI.com 16 Oct '03

16 Oct '03

Email me if you are familiar with the fiber landscape (dark/lit) or lack thereof in the Portland/Beaverton areas. Thanks, BM

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RE: [Fwd: [IP] VeriSign to revive redirect service]
by Dan Lockwood 16 Oct '03

16 Oct '03

OK, so who is responsible for bringing the fruit? Does our registration fee cover that? :D Dan -----Original Message----- From: owner-nanog(a)merit.edu [mailto:owner-nanog@merit.edu] On Behalf Of JC Dill Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2003 9:05 To: NANOG Subject: Re: [Fwd: [IP] VeriSign to revive redirect service] At 02:56 AM 10/16/2003, Suresh Ramasubramanian wrote: >Ouch. >http://news.com.com/2100-1038_3-5092133.html > >VeriSign to revive redirect service >by Declan McCullagh > >VeriSign will give a 30- to 60-day notice before resuming a >controversial and temporarily suspended feature that redirected many >.com and .net domains, company representatives said Wednesday. I'm not going to be at NANOG in Chicago next Monday (October 20th), but if I were, I'd be in the foyer Monday morning with a few crates of tomatoes, selling individual tomatoes. If everyone who attends NANOG goes to the 9:15 session on Monday morning <http://www.nanog.org/mtg-0310/dns.html> and takes a single large tomato into the session with them, that this will make a VISIBLE sign to Verisign. It will make for a great photo opportunity, and turn this issue into something that the ordinary press can more easily explain to the non-technical Internet using masses. I also suggest that people wear red shirts on Monday. Enable the press to write about how Network Operators obviously and visibly *demonstrated* their unhappiness with Verisign. Try "Network Operators are seeing Red over Sitefinder" or "Verisign gets pelted with tomatoes over Sitefinder" as a headline. Note: I'm not actually suggesting that people pelt Verisign representatives with the tomatoes, you could just individually walk up to the front of the room and put your tomatoes in a pile where they can be seen. A pile of 500 tomatoes that are brought there individually, each tomato representing the opinion of a NANOG participant, *will* make an impact. jc

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