September 2002 - Test - lists.nanog.org

Talked about this before
by Pawlukiewicz Jane 09 Sep '02

09 Sep '02

Hi, Quick Question, how much memory does the bgp tables actually take. I'm estimating 32 mb in my plan, but I'm worried that's not enough. Thanks, Jane

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What have we learned in 3 decades? Not much.
by Valdis.Kletnieks＠vt.edu 09 Sep '02

09 Sep '02

The guys who did the Multics penetration tests for the Air Force have re-released it, with commentary on what 30 years has changed (and more importantly, not changed). Most depressing quote: Thus, systems that are weaker than Multics are consid- ered for use in environments in excess of what even Mul- tics could deliver without restructuring around a security kernel. There really seem to be only four possible con- clusions from this: either (1) today's systems are really much more secure than we claim; (2) today's potential attackers are much less capable or motivated; (3) the in- formation being processed is much less valuable; or (4) people are unwilling or unable to recognize the compel- ling need to employ much better technical solutions. http://domino.watson.ibm.com/library/cyberdig.nsf/papers/FDEFBEBC9DD3E35485…

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IP address fee??
by Owens, Shane (EPIK.ORL) 09 Sep '02

09 Sep '02

Quick question, does there exist a practice of charging customer for IP address blocks used? My theory is that the first Class C is included with the service, but I'm wondering what happens when the customer wants 2,3,4 or more? Shane

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Network Attacks
by Manolo Hernandez 09 Sep '02

09 Sep '02

How are you all handling network attacks from say China? We had attack today from China Aerospace. RIPE said it was unallocated, ARIN said it was APNIC, APNIC has no valid info on them. What can one do? -- Manolo Hernandez - Network Administrator "The only source of knowledge is experience." - A. Einstein

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Praise to XO's Security/Abuse
by John M. Brown 09 Sep '02

09 Sep '02

Jason at XO's security/abuse staff. Very helpful chap Solved a problem with a downstream client of theirs that was pounding a network I help out.... Yes, I know off topic, but more on topic as this list SHOULD be about people HELPING people do good in these difficult times. YMMV, but I'm happy. Have a great day John Brown Chagres Technologies, Inc

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re: Internet connection secure from surveilance?
by John Palmer 09 Sep '02

09 Sep '02

Here is my reply to Joe Your solution is good. In general, anyone worried about this kind of invasion of privacy should arrange to run their own root servers. The more the merrier. This is not neccessarily about having multiple roots with colliding TLDs, but about security from surveillance. One discouraging fact is that even if everyone moves to localized root servers, the USG still controls the servers for .COM/.NET and .ORG as well as, most definitly .GOV and .MIL. The same trick that they can play at the root server level can also be played at the gtld-server level. They can just rig [A-M].GTLD-SERVERS.NET instead of the roots. They may not be able to capture all of the traffic that a user generates, but most of it, since most websites/domains are in the "big three" and those are controlled by USG. John ----- Original Message ----- From: <baptista(a)dot-god.com> To: <ga(a)dnso.org> Sent: Monday, September 09, 2002 11:28 Subject: [ga] is your Internet connection secure from surveilance? > I have attached a draft PDF file addressed to Canada's privacy and > information commissioners which outlines my concerns respecting privacy > issues in root operations. > > I would welcome any comments. Please email them directly to me. > > kindest regards > joe baptista >

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RE: National Moment of Silence
by Chris Boyd 09 Sep '02

09 Sep '02

I doubt that the Kazaa servents will get shut down either. > -----Original Message----- > From: Greg Maxwell [SMTP:gmaxwell@martin.fl.us] > Sent: Monday, September 09, 2002 1:14 PM > To: Hank Nussbacher > Cc: nanog(a)merit.edu > Subject: Re: National Moment of Silence > > > On Mon, 9 Sep 2002, Hank Nussbacher wrote: > > > Is anyone planning on measuring backbone loads during the National > Moment > > of Silence at 8:46 a.m. Eastern Standard Time on 9/11? > > > > -Hank > > Moment of slience? backbone loads? > ... When a user on a network HTTP GETs a porno, and no one polls their > SNMP counters, does it make a sound? >

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Juniper T Series routers
by Bob Procter 09 Sep '02

09 Sep '02

Does anyone have any opinions on the Juniper T Series routers that they can share? Reply off-list, I'm happy to summarise responses. Thanks & regards, Bob Procter, ntl Group Limited. The contents of this email and any attachments are sent for the personal attention of the addressee(s) only and may be confidential. If you are not the intended addressee, any use, disclosure or copying of this email and any attachments is unauthorised - please notify the sender by return and delete the message. Any representations or commitments expressed in this email are subject to contract. ntl Group Limited

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Eugene Call for Presentations
by Susan Harris 09 Sep '02

09 Sep '02

Hi - just a reminder that abstracts are due this Monday, Sept. 16. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * CALL FOR PRESENTATIONS NANOG 26 GENERAL SESSION TUTORIALS SPECIAL RESEARCH/OPERATIONS FORUM October 27-29, 2002 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * The North American Network Operators' Group (NANOG) will hold its 26th meeting October 27-29, 2002, in Eugene, Oregon. The meeting will be hosted by the University of Oregon and Sprint. Registration opens September 4. NANOG 26 is a special occasion - the first joint meeting with ARIN, the American Registry for Internet Numbers. ARIN manages IP numbers for North and South America, the Caribbean, and sub-Saharan Africa. NANOG will meet as usual from Sunday to Tuesday, and ARIN from Wednesday to Friday. NANOG conferences provide a forum for the coordination and dissemination of technical information related to large-scale (i.e., national/international) Internet backbone networking technologies and operational practices. Meetings are held three times each year, and include two days of short presentations, plus afternoon/evening tutorial sessions and special forums. The meetings are informal, with an emphasis on relevance to current backbone engineering practices. NANOG conferences draw over 500 participants, mainly consisting of engineering staff from national service providers, and members of the research and education community. The meeting will be held at the Hilton Eugene and Conference Center. For more information about NANOG meetings, schedules, and logistics, see: http://www.nanog.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ CALL FOR PRESENTATIONS NANOG invites presentations on backbone engineering, coordination, and research topics. Presentations should highlight issues relating to technology already deployed or soon to be deployed in core Internet backbones and exchange points. Previous meetings have included presentations on: - Backbone traffic engineering - Inter-provider security and routing protocol authentication - Routing scalability in backbone infrastructures - Security issues for the Internet core - Routing policy specification and backbone router configuration - Building large-scale measurement infrastructure - Cooperative inter-provider caching - Alternatives to hot-potato routing - Recommendations on queue management and congestion avoidance - Experience with differentiated services - Inter-domain multicast deployment - Backbone network failure analysis Tutorials have covered topics such as: - IP traffic management - BGP multihoming guide - ISP security: real world techniques - IP multicast technologies The special research/operations forum offers researchers a short time slot to present ongoing work for evaluation and feedback from the operations community. Topics include routing, network performance, statistical measurement and analysis, and protocol development and implementation. Researchers from academia, government, and industry are invited to participate. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ HOW TO PRESENT Submit a detailed abstract or outline describing the presentation in email to nanog-support(a)nanog.org. The deadline for proposals is September 16, 2002. While the majority of speaking slots will be filled by September 16, a limited number of slots will be available after that date for topics that are exceptionally timely and important. Submissions will be reviewed by the NANOG Program Committee, and presenters will be notified of acceptance by September 30, 2002. NANOG also welcomes suggestions/recommendations for tutorials, panels and other presentation topics. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Re: Baltimore train tunnels (was Re: Vulnerbilities of Interconnection)
by William B. Norton 08 Sep '02

08 Sep '02

At 09:47 PM 9/7/2002 -0400, Sean Donelan wrote: >Unlike phone calls, TCP traffic doesn't occur in fixed bandwidth >increments. TCP traffic, 90% of Internet traffic, is elastic. By design, >TCP adjusts the traffic rate to keep the bottleneck congested. As the >bottleneck moves, traffic reacts by increasing or decreasing the rate to >match the available capacity. This feedback occurs independently of what >is happening on nearby traffic paths. Even if there is available >capacity on elsewhere, the current Internet design is not very good at >using it. Some people view this as an inefficient use of available >capacity, other people view it as a self-protective mechanism. Thank Goodness for well-behaved applications, right? ( Misbehaving TCP stacks and UDP-based apps don't obey these back off rules. ) I remember Van Jacobson gave a presentation back in 1997 that spoke about the problems with applications that didn't exhibit these characteristics: http://www.academ.com/nanog/october1997/ It would be interesting to see some recent verification that well-behaved TCP-apps are the norm on the Internet...any data out there in this regard? Bill

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