June 2001 - Test - lists.nanog.org

RE: New NAP Opening in Miami this week
by Rowland, Alan D 29 Jun '01

29 Jun '01

I'd venture a significant portion of Florida is a mere 32 feet above sea level. -Al -----Original Message----- From: David Lesher [mailto:wb8foz@nrk.com] Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 12:38 PM To: nanog(a)merit.edu Subject: Re: New NAP Opening in Miami this week Unnamed Administration sources reported that Larry Diffey said: > > > > The facility is a whopping 32 feet above sea level! Err... I would say "mere" myself. The bigger question is how far out of reach of a storm surge is it? And is EVERYTHING 32' up? MPOE fiber junctions, power feeds, parking spaces for semi-truck generator? -- A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz(a)nrk.com & no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433 is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

7 6

Network Riddle
by Chris Rapier 29 Jun '01

29 Jun '01

So, I've a problem which is probably best though of as a riddle... With an ip matrix containing src/dst ip and ports (of flows, not individual packets) distilled from a 60 second long tcpdump how can you determine who server and who is the client. Restrictions: 1) You cannot assume that you will have access to the syn, syn/ack or close packets. 2) You cannot assume that well known ports are actually well known. Ergo, seeing port 80 does not necessarily indicate the corresponding host is a server. 3) You are only seeing things half duplex. In other words, you only see inbound or outbound traffic at any one time but you can tell if what you are seeing is inbound or outbound. I've been banging my head against a wall with this for a while. None of the solutions I can think of seem terribly good. These include - looking for multiple flows with the same source or dst IP and tracking how many times any one port appears. If it appears in some percentage of the connections then you know that port is stable and probably a server. This doesn't work if you only have one flow. Looking at the size of the packets. If the average size indicates ACKs then you can at least determine directionality. Which may or may not be entirely worthless. Any ideas? Has anyone done anything on this before? Chris Rapier Network Programmer Pittsburgh Supercomputing Center

3 4

ISP's who filter ICMP during DoS?
by ASV 29 Jun '01

29 Jun '01

Does anyone have a list of which ISPs are willing to filter ICMP packets for you when your network is being (D)DoS'd, and which prefer to simply blackhole / disconnect you, and which will do absolutely nothing?? I'm finding it hard to gather this information and it occured to me that this is an obvious factor when choosing an ISP! Thanks,

4 3

Re: Open Peers at PAIX
by Paul Vixie 29 Jun '01

29 Jun '01

cnielsen(a)nielsen.net (Christian Nielsen) writes: > if and when paix links to mae-west-ames, you can get a link to the FDDI > exchange. there is always PBNap and MAE-WEST-ATM (tho I dont know the costs) Won't work that way. PAIX is locating a switch in Ames whenever the contracts and fiber are complete. Ames will likewise locate a switch at PAIX. But it will be two switching fabrics that are each extended to the other's colo area, not one bridged switching fabric like MAE-W/Ames used to be. Anyone who wants to be on both fabrics will be able to do that by buying a port on each, which will be possible in either the PAIX-PAO1, PAIX-SFO1, or Ames colo facilities. -- Paul Vixie <vixie(a)eng.paix.net> President, PAIX.Net Inc. (MFNX.O)

1 0

East Coast Outages?
by John Kloian III 28 Jun '01

28 Jun '01

I've just had several calls, even one from a reporter back east in Maryland. Apparently mae-east and west are down. Can anyone veryify an outage, ANYWHERE? internettrafficreport.com shows mae-west down and serverbank.net shows mae-east down (both with 100% packet-loss). Anything? ~ - John

4 3

RE: New NAP Opening in Miami this week
by David S. Diaz 28 Jun '01

28 Jun '01

My mistake, the RA is hot as or today at the Mix. I was just corrected off list. ----- Actually Bellsouth is hot. I have been to the sites. The fibre is and hot. Im sure there are things like the RA that may not be hot yet if that is what is being referred to. It's a good network with fibre from different carries on diverse routes. The interesting prospect I think is that since they have nodes in locations like W. Palm Beach and Ft. Lauderdale (not just miami) your local loop from these areas would be significantly cheaper than running to that other NAP in Miami. This may be attractive for carriers or backbones in that area. The Mix nodes are also located at locations like transoceanic fibre nodes. Since it's a layer 1 network also, geeez maybe it's good for cheap transport. I think the NOTA building that was built was built well. 32ft is not bad for florida at all. It seems like a fine colo with one concern, it's in an evacation area. Which means u need to have key people there before the storm restrictions kick in or they arent getting there. As we know, no one gets rich building a nap, this is model plans on making money from colo space which is also tough right now. The other model is a, hey we dont care where u are at, use us for peering and hmmm we can do wave service and local loops and whatever else you can come up with for a dwdm/optical switched core network. It is going to be interesting to see how both naps evolve and develop differentiating services. One negative with the mix-nap is that they used blue and orange colors, Univ of Florida, for their tshirts. What an insult :-) dave At 4:10 PM -0400 6/28/01, Daniel Golding wrote: >AFAIK, the Bellsouth MIX is a long way from operation. > >- Daniel Golding > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-nanog(a)merit.edu [mailto:owner-nanog@merit.edu]On Behalf Of >> Mark Borchers >> Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 3:45 PM >> To: nanog(a)merit.edu >> Subject: RE: New NAP Opening in Miami this week >> >> >> >> Two, actually. Refer to http://www.nanog.org/mtg-0102/florida.html >> <http://www.nanog.org/mtg-0102/florida.html> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Larry Diffey [mailto:ldiffey@technologyforward.com] >> Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 2:41 PM >> To: nanog(a)merit.edu >> Subject: New NAP Opening in Miami this week >> >> >> According to this story >> <http://www.zdnet.com/intweek/stories/news/0,4164,2779717,00.html> on >> zdnet, there is a large NAP opening this week in Miami. This NAP will >> primarily be used to pipe traffic to and from Latin and South America. > > > > The facility is a whopping 32 feet above sea level! > >

4 3

Jim Ellis
by David Lesher 28 Jun '01

28 Jun '01

AP reports that Jim Ellis, cofounder of Usenet, died today of non-Hodgkins lymphoma. -- A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz(a)nrk.com & no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433 is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

1 0

RE: East Coast Outages?
by Richard A. Steenbergen 28 Jun '01

28 Jun '01

On Thu, Jun 28, 2001 at 02:55:36PM -0700, John Kloian III wrote: > > Thanks for all the responses. I should have first prefaced my > original post with: "I cannot verify that anythting is actually down > because Ican get to everything I mentioned." I thought it weird > getting a call from a reporter in Maryland stating that he and several > ISPs are seeing a "major" outage that I nor my engineers can verify. Further proof that neither you nor reporters from Maryland should be relied upon to state anything useful about the internet. -- Richard A Steenbergen <ras(a)e-gerbil.net> http://www.e-gerbil.net/ras PGP Key ID: 0x138EA177 (67 29 D7 BC E8 18 3E DA B2 46 B3 D8 14 36 FE B6)

1 0

RE: East Coast Outages?
by John Kloian III 28 Jun '01

28 Jun '01

Thanks for all the responses. I should have first prefaced my original post with: "I cannot verify that anythting is actually down because I can get to everything I mentioned." I thought it weird getting a call from a reporter in Maryland stating that he and several ISPs are seeing a "major" outage that I nor my engineers can verify. ~ - John On Thu, 28 Jun 2001, Susan L. Collicott wrote: > >internettrafficreport.com shows everything in the world as 'down', as far >as I can see ... :) > >Susan > >On Thu, 28 Jun 2001, Daniel Golding wrote: > >> >> John, >> >> Needless to say, MAE-EAST ATM and MAE-WEST ATM are both up. If this is news >> that MAE-East FDDI is down, than it is, unfortunately, a bit late. :) >> >> Besides, I thought Opnix didn't need to worry about those terrible public >> peering points... >> >> - Dan >> >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: owner-nanog(a)merit.edu [mailto:owner-nanog@merit.edu]On Behalf Of >> > John Kloian III >> > Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 4:53 PM >> > To: nanog(a)merit.edu >> > Subject: East Coast Outages? >> > >> > >> > >> > I've just had several calls, even one from a reporter back east in >> > Maryland. Apparently mae-east and west are down. Can anyone veryify an >> > outage, ANYWHERE? internettrafficreport.com shows mae-west down and >> > serverbank.net shows mae-east down (both with 100% packet-loss). >> > Anything? >> > >> > >> > ~ >> > - John >> > >> >> > > >

1 0

Re: Peering Breakeven Analysis White Paper
by PETER JANSEN 28 Jun '01

28 Jun '01

Bill: I would be very interested reading and commenting on your peering paper. Best regards Peter Jansen Senior Manager, Global Peering Cable & Wireless Global e-mail: peter.jansen(a)cw.net Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 14:46 -0400 (EDT) From: "William B. Norton" <wbn(a)equinix.com> To: nanog(a)merit.edu CC: wbn(a)equinix.com Sender: owner-nanog(a)merit.edu Delivered-to: nanog-outgoing(a)trapdoor.merit.edu Delivered-to: nanog(a)trapdoor.merit.edu Delivered-to: nanog(a)merit.edu Subject: Peering Breakeven Analysis White Paper Hi all - After about 6 months, I've finally finished a presentable draft of a community white paper I'd like to share with a handful of interested folks. The draft is titled "The Peering Breakeven Analysis Graph: An ISP Peering Cost Savings Analysis" and finishes up the research I've done with the Peering Coordinator Community. It complements the "Internet Service Providers and Peering" white paper that I know many of you have read and focuses on its business case for peering that Bill St. Arnaud cited at a NANOG. Here is the Abstract: -------------------------------- During the recent economic turmoil, Internet Service Providers are looking for ways to reduce their costs of providing Internet services. Chief among their costs are telecommunications costs, the cost of getting traffic to the other networks of the Internet. Discussions with ISP Peering Coordinators identified Internet Service Provider (ISP) "Peering" as one of the most effective methods of reducing telecommunications costs for ISPs. The ISP Peering Coordinator's job is to establish and effectively manage this interconnection between ISPs. Goals include maximizing efficiency and minimizing costs of interconnect costs. As demonstrated in the "Internet Service Providers and Peering " earlier work, the job requires a rare combination of technical and business acumen with good people and negotiating skills. This paper introduces the ISP Peering Coordinators terminology and the tools and analysis typically used. We demonstrate these with a specific implementation and generalize them in the form "Peering Break Even Analysis Graph". This is the business case for Internet Service Provider peering based on current practices and market prices. ------------------------------------- If you can help and have the inclination to read it (it is only six pages) and comment, please send me e-mail: wbn(a)equinix.com Thanks - Bill ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------- William B. Norton Co-Founder and Chief Technical Liaison Equinix wbn(a)equinix.com 650.315.8635

1 0