October 2001 - Test - lists.nanog.org

RE: [NEWS] FBI To Require ISPs To Reconfigure E-mail Systems (fwd)
by Paul Wouters 24 Oct '01

24 Oct '01

I could have sworn I was subscribed to nanog-post :) Paul ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 12:49:32 +0200 (MET DST) From: Paul Wouters <paul(a)xtdnet.nl> To: batz <batsy(a)vapour.net> Cc: Mike Batchelor <mikebat(a)tmcs.net>, nanog list <nanog(a)merit.edu> Subject: RE: [NEWS] FBI To Require ISPs To Reconfigure E-mail Systems (fwd) On Thu, 18 Oct 2001, batz wrote: > :What would wiretap laws be like if individuals had been able all along to > :operate their own telco switch, if they so desired? > > Funny you should mention that, as I think we are about to find out. The NL has already answered this question last januari. When asked who needs to be tappable, the answer is "everyone who is offering a public internet service". Dutch law defines telecommunication as the "transport of an electronic signal from once physical device to another" and has defined an IP number as a physical device. Tapped data needs to be sent through a special protocol, the Transport of Intercepted IP Traffic (TIIT). Only registered telco's can legally obtain the specification, which apart from a Dutch standard is an ETSI draft. More information on www.opentap.org (it was on cryptome a while ago) (Or hopefully soon my HAL2001 talk will be online at www.hal2001.org) But it is clear to see where this will al end. Windows users on cable or adsl, running SSL/SASL mailservers on their own desktop, without MX fallbacks, and without ISP smarthosts. As a result of sep 11, crypto law proposals haven't really changed much in the NL (move to controlable 'trusted third parties') but it has put the issue on the table, out in the open, instead of being sneaked in through some forgotten political door. Polls helt by newspapers in the last week showed a majority was in favour of stronger laws for crypto and mandatory carrying of ID at all times. I'll just pray that our democracy will never reach a state where every decision will be made through internet based referendums. Paul ps. Yes, if following the letter of the law, SSH is illegal for ISP's. However, no one has dared yet to submit a key escrow patch to the OpenSSH team :) -- We can't have these hidden economies and foul politics in this age anymore. It is just *too* dangerous --- Howard Davies' (FSA) financial views extrapolated

3 2

Re: [NEWS] FBI To Require ISPs To Reconfigure E-mail Systems (fwd)
by Paul Wouters 24 Oct '01

24 Oct '01

---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 14:07:08 +0200 (MET DST) From: Paul Wouters <paul(a)xtdnet.nl> Cc: nanog(a)merit.edu, patrice(a)xs4all.nl Subject: Re: [NEWS] FBI To Require ISPs To Reconfigure E-mail Systems (fwd) On 24 Oct 2001, Paul Vixie wrote: > Redefining what an ISP is, in order to evade the FBI's intent, lacks respect. Redefining an ISP to be an unpaid Private Investigator, Police officer, Lawyer, Judge and Executioner all in one, what many laws have done or are about to do, totally lack respect for its citizens it is supposed to guide. What kind of society have we become when the BVD (Dutch FBI) classify the nations top internet experts as "anarchistic enemies of the state" because they're holding a conference (www.hal2001.org) on privacy, digital rights, and freedom. Paul, your work for the common good (bind, ISC, etc) has earned my deepest respect. But the national security agencies who want to turn this world in a police state have not. They cannot order my respect. They can not take my respect. It's just not there. Yes, working arounds laws, even fundamental human rights, is not the best way to address these issues, but it seems currently, it is one of the few options I have left. What can I do when I only have privacy and freedom left on paper, as an archaic symbol of the past? The legal system has grown beyond the timespan for individuals to have much meaningful influence if you play it by that system, hence you don't play it that way anymore. I know technology, so I'll battle it with technology and let other people who know more about law fight it on their terrain. Hopefully we'll manage to get the laws under control again, instead of being totally controlled by laws. Laws are meant to help citizens and their disputes in a society, and the more ridicilous laws are passed, the more the citizens will treat them only as guidelines. You can't have the cake and eat it too. If only letting of this steam could power an engine :) Paul -- We can't have these hidden economies and foul politics in this age anymore. It is just *too* dangerous --- Howard Davies' (Chairman FSA) financial views extrapolated

2 1

Re: Unix Timestamp
by Henry Yen 24 Oct '01

24 Oct '01

Previously Henry Yen wrote: > Linux 6.2 and up switched to sh-utils-2.0, > which uses "-r" as "refer to date of file", so there's now a clear > divergence. for all those who "reminded" me... --->> There is no such thing as Linux 6.2, the latest release is 2.4.13. s/Linux 6.2/Redhat 6.2/ slap! (ouchy!) :-P ObLinux: linux user since 1993. -- Henry Yen Aegis Information Systems, Inc. Senior Systems Programmer Hicksville, New York

1 0

Re: [NEWS] FBI To Require ISPs To Reconfigure E-mail Systems (fwd)
by Paul Vixie 24 Oct '01

24 Oct '01

Nothing to see. Move along. > > Somewhere along with the power to vote particular politicians in or out > > must come some respect for the laws those people create, even the ones we > > don't think are perfect. > > ... Even the courts say we shouldn't respect laws we feel are unjust. ... I think of civil disobedience as "some respect for the laws" since folks like Randy whose conscience would not permit them to obey certain laws knew that they would likely go to jail and did what they did anyway. Redefining what an ISP is, in order to evade the FBI's intent, lacks respect.

1 0

Washington DC power failures
by Sean Donelan 23 Oct '01

23 Oct '01

Washington DC power company PEPCO had more underground fires at 17th and M streets NW. This has affected some circuits out of carriers with facilities on 1200 block of L street.

3 3

Postmaster 'best practices' query
by David Lesher 23 Oct '01

23 Oct '01

A query to help educate me. Feel free to flame away; the week is young. Every site should accept/respond to "postmaster" -- T/F? Or is it "Every site running mail".... Or every box running mail? IOW: Which of the following are required vice recommended vice best practives, etc. a) postmaster(a)example.com b) postmaster(a)mail.example.com c) postmaster(a)wizzbang.example.com d) postmaster(a)pop.example.com e) postmaster(a)cisco.example.com and most important to me: where to I go to justify the decisions on same? -- A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz(a)nrk.com & no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433 is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

7 7

Fwd: Re: Postmaster 'best practices' query
by Rodney Thayer 23 Oct '01

23 Oct '01

>The Host Requirements RFC says that if you support "receiver SMTP", you >must support the reserved mailbox "Postmaster". > >In my experience, interpreting that statement has been a pre-existing >exercise for the readers for nearly a decade, with many results. The Host Requirements RFC also says, I believe, that you are to respond to PING -- try that with www.microsoft.com. My point is, it appears that the Host Requirements RFC seems to be "interpreted" in the real world. Lots of sites seem to not implement postmaster. But then again, sites seem to not maintain contact info in the whois database that's valid, and I would think that would impact network operations even more... Is there a BCP-like list somewhere? Or has this, like other things, been discusssed to death on NANOG in decades gone by...

2 1

Training and civil defense
by Sean Donelan 23 Oct '01

23 Oct '01

The military tends to be more open about their activites than private companies. The Air Force public affairs office put out this report how they kept the National Military Command Center running during the crisis on September 11. http://www.af.mil/news/Sep2001/n20010918_1305.shtml The key thing to notice is the level of training and equipment available to the personnel. Although this involved the military, you will see similar level of training among operators of chemical plants and nuclear plants who need to stay at their posts while safely shutting down the plant. It is not common among Internet operators. In general untrained people should stay out of the way, or evacuate. It really isn't an issue of bravery, or volunteering to stay at the helm of a sinking ship. Untrained people are a risk to both themselves and to other people around them. If your aren't trained how to handle bombs, hazardous materials, etc you should evacuate. Evacuating your NOC, or colo or call center may be the best thing to do during a crisis (hurricane, bombing, anthrax, etc). But ISPs should pre-plan how they will keep their network running in a lights-out/unattended situation. In addition, you should pre-plan with your local emergency responders what they will do. Very few emergency responders have received training how to deal with an a typical telephone CO or Internet exchange point. I've talked to fire departments in the Bay Area, and several of them are worried about sending firefighters inside some Internet data centers in an emergency.

1 0

Re: [NEWS] FBI To Require ISPs To Reconfigure E-mail Systems (fwd)
by Paul Vixie 23 Oct '01

23 Oct '01

Warning: dangerously irrelevant and completely off-topic for the NANOG list. > I'd never have guessed that Vixie was a supporter of a police state. You've got me all wrong. I support the police in my state (country). > I'll stop supporting democracy when they pry my vote out of my cold dead > hands.... Right. When my kids and I line up for exercises at the local school most mornings, you'll find me, hat in one hand and the other over my heart, facing the flag, reciting the Pledge of Allegiance, and meaning every word of it except maybe the part about God which I consider to be ambiguous. And when paying taxes I am particularly glad that the cost of my family's security comes at merely a cost measurable as a fraction of my income. YMMV of course. If you don't like the deal you're being offered you should find a better one. Somewhere along with the power to vote particular politicians in or out must come some respect for the laws those people create, even the ones we don't think are perfect. The FBI has a hellish job on their hands right now. Actually it's been a hellish job for a long time but it seems like only recently we're all aware of how hellish it is. I don't think that redefining what an ISP is in order to blunt the obvious intent of Omnivore (or whatever) is a useful exercise of democratic power.

9 8

universal whois
by Mark Kosters 23 Oct '01

23 Oct '01

Hi Following our presentation at NANOG 23... VeriSign Applied Research has started to undertake a project called Universal Whois - aka uwho. The hope of this project is to attempt to create a better administrative lookup service for the various registries, registrars, and RIR's. Right now, we are in the requirements phase and would appreciate your input via the uwho(a)lists.verisignlabs.com mailing list (use the uwho-request thing to subscribe). The web site is located at http://uwho.verisignlabs.com which decribes the project in a bit more detail. Thanks, Mark -- Mark Kosters markk(a)netsol.com Verisign Applied Research

1 0