September 2000 - Test - lists.nanog.org

Re: ARIN Policy on IP-based Web Hosting
by smd＠clock.org 01 Sep '00

01 Sep '00

Hm, this is vaguely about the tension in how network-friendly to make applications... Jim Mercer writes: | just think how crippled make(1) would be without extensions. Hm, let's see, in NetBSD's make(1) regime, the current sys.mk has the declarations below. What stops you from using a different suffix convention than <foo>".c" and friends? I see no reason why make(1) couldn't be extended to deal with arbitrary prefix/infix/suffix identifiers, or even something complicated like a set of regexps. COMPILE.c?= ${CC} ${CFLAGS} ${CPPFLAGS} -c LINK.c?= ${CC} ${CFLAGS} ${CPPFLAGS} ${LDFLAGS} CXX?= c++ CXXFLAGS?= ${CFLAGS} COMPILE.cc?= ${CXX} ${CXXFLAGS} ${CPPFLAGS} -c LINK.cc?= ${CXX} ${CXXFLAGS} ${CPPFLAGS} ${LDFLAGS} OBJC?= ${CC} OBJCFLAGS?= ${CFLAGS} COMPILE.m?= ${OBJC} ${OBJCFLAGS} ${CPPFLAGS} -c LINK.m?= ${OBJC} ${OBJCFLAGS} ${CPPFLAGS} ${LDFLAGS} ... # C .c: ${LINK.c} -o ${.TARGET} ${.IMPSRC} ${LDLIBS} .c.o: ${COMPILE.c} ${.IMPSRC} .c.a: ${COMPILE.c} ${.IMPSRC} ${AR} ${ARFLAGS} $@ $*.o rm -f $*.o .c.ln: ${LINT} ${LINTFLAGS} ${CPPFLAGS:M-[IDU]*} -i ${.IMPSRC} # C++ .cc .cpp .cxx .C: ${LINK.cc} -o ${.TARGET} ${.IMPSRC} ${LDLIBS} .cc.o .cpp.o .cxx.o .C.o: ${COMPILE.cc} ${.IMPSRC} etc. Finally, compared to the equivalents in, for example, the Common LISP universe, make(1) *IS* crippled, suffix-convention or not. The assumption many network people have that "everything is an X", for varous values of X (endianness, VAXishness, Microsoftishness, UNIXish) has always been a real problem, and has led to interesting problems (e.g., taking a file froma TENEX machine, changing directories on a VMS server). HTTP for its sins does abstract away some of the worst user-visible problems (e.g. do you need to care what platform the web server is running on?) The major problem I have with ftp, from the perspective of someone trying to build networks, is that most clients generally do not do passive-mode ftp by default, despite many years of harranguing going waaaaay back to Vadim Antonov's argument for that here. Another plug: NetBSD's ftp(1) man page says: epsv4 Toggle the use of the extended EPSV and EPRT commands on IPv4 connections; first try EPSV / EPRT, and then PASV / PORT. This is enabled by default. [with fallback to active on fail -smd] This is, in my opinion, Doing The Right Thing. Sean.

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RE: ARIN Policy on IP-based Web Hosting (fwd)
by sigma＠pair.com 01 Sep '00

01 Sep '00

>There is only a small number of services that currently really require >dedicated IPs. HTTPS and Anonymous FTP. Although, the HTTPS is a concern - >not that many customers actually use the Anonymous FTP service. We ended up >offering Anonymous FTP as a premium service (I like to think that this cuts >down on warez and script kiddie distribution). Aha, I was waiting for someone to say that. So it's going to be OK to use per-host IP addresses if it's sold as a "premium" service? So that business model is OK, but not another? What if we say all of our services are "premium"? What if too many of your customers start paying you for that "premium" service? Where's the threshold? Are you more justified in your IP usage because you charge your customers more for it? By what justification does this poorly-thought-out policy interfere with business models or competitive advantages between hosts? >A few customers will whine, but 98% don't know >the difference, understand and accept the limititations, or are just so damn >happy it works that they don't mind. Great for your customers, then. >Although I do agree that ARIN does tend to be anal, I believe some system >architects would have shot us all in the foot by now if they hadn't put >their foot down. We just have to be cleverer than them and I think that >shouldn't be too hard, right? Are you proposing to circumvent the policy? Kevin

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Re: IPv6 allocatin (was Re: ARIN Policy on IP-based Web Hosting)
by smd＠clock.org 01 Sep '00

01 Sep '00

| When, do you think, will IPv6 come someywhere close to being | significantly deployed? When pigs fly and the devil invests in snow-removal equipment. Sean.

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Re: ARIN Policy on IP-based Web Hosting
by David Charlap 01 Sep '00

01 Sep '00

David Greer wrote: > > I think you are confusing MAC's and DOS here. My recollection is that > DOS stored filenames in 11 contiguous characters without the ".". It > being assumed that the last three characters were the extension. No. It is an 8-byte field and a 3-byte field. The fact that these fields are adjacent to each other in the structure does not transform them into a single 11-byte field. Note that when the name is less than 8 characters, the name field is padded with NULLs, and the extension remains stored in the same place (bytes 9-11, relative to the first byte of the name). > Macintoshes did / do store the extension as a separate entity in the > structure. Macs don't have any concept of extensions whatsoever. File type information is stored completely separately and has nothing at all to do with filenames. The system shell (and most applications) do not give users the ability to view or alter the four-byte file-type codes. -- David

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Re: ARIN Policy on IP-based Web Hosting
by David Charlap 01 Sep '00

01 Sep '00

"Roeland M.J. Meyer" wrote: > > everything to the right side of the final dot. Such as in > "/etc/named.conf" the extension is "conf". A better example is > "/usr/local/src/whois.1.9.0/readme.txt" where the extension is "txt". True, in a literal understanding. But in the sense of "a part of the filename used to identify the format or purpose of the file content", it's not always correct. "extension" is a term that stems from the DOS days, when it was actually stored separately in the directory structure of the file system. Today, however, you find this information encoded into filenames in a wide variety of ways. Type information may be in the form of a prefix, a suffix, multiple prefixes, or multiple suffixes. It may be delimited by periods, dashes, other characters, or even by no characters at all. For example: conf.modules myarchive.tar.gz libstdc++-2-libc6.1-1-2.9.0.a kernel-headers-2.2.16-3.i386.rpm An "extension" is only one specific subset of the infinite number of possible ways that type information can be, and often is, encoded into filenames. Unfortunately, this creates the reality that any code which tries to deduce a file type from a filename will require a huge (and ever increasing) set of parsing rules (probably some form of regular expressions) in order to to the job properly. Even more unfortunately, the Windows world hasn't figured this out yet, and only looks at strings that follow a period at the end of a name. -- David

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Root zone change -- Informational message
by Verd, Brad 01 Sep '00

01 Sep '00

Informational Message: The IP for m.gtld-servers.net will be changed in the authoritative list for .com, .net, and .org. Changes will be reflected in the zone with serial number 2000083001 -------------------------------------- Brad Verd gTLD Operations Manager Network Solutions Registry Email - bverd(a)netsol.com ---------------------------------------

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Re: ARIN Policy on IP-based Web Hosting
by Scott Bradner 01 Sep '00

01 Sep '00

< > ISOC has a defined membership - nanog does not < No. But ARIN does. And this is an ARIN issue, not a NANOG one, as Alec < pointed out. yes it is an ARIN issue but ARIN established teh public policy meeting and mailing list to take input - it would be nice to have a way of understanding the level of support for a proposal in the ops community before the ARIN members go off to vote Scott

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RE: ARIN Policy on IP-based Web Hosting
by Scott Bradner 01 Sep '00

01 Sep '00

> How about voting on the Internet ISOC style? who should vote? ISOC has a defined membership - nanog does not the issue of how to figure out consensus on a mailing list is not an easy one - its one of the things the IETF has a lot of fun with Scott

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Re: ARIN Policy on IP-based Web Hosting
by Scott Bradner 01 Sep '00

01 Sep '00

> as such referring to any > meetings they might hold as "public" would seem to me to be somewhat of a > misnomer. ARIN hosts a public policy meeting that anyone, member or not, can attend (there is a fee for non-members to cover the actual costs of the meeting) there is also a member meeting for members - the next public policy meeting is in early october in the Dulles area Scott

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BART strikes again - Pacbell/SFO
by Sean Donelan 01 Sep '00

01 Sep '00

A contractor for BART (Bay Area Rapid Transit) in San Francisco drilled into a Pacific Bell cable near the San Francisco Airport today. In addition to disruptingphone service, it also took out some of the circuits used for reservation computers at SFO.

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