August 1999 - Test - lists.nanog.org

Re: "Engineer" (Was: Tech contact for Qwest?)
by Vadim Antonov 23 Aug '99

23 Aug '99

David Brouda <david(a)brouda.com> wrote: > Now, I have mentioned three key words: engineer, professional, and ethics. > As a student of engineering, I believe that these three words go > hand-in-hand. The facts that somebody is being professional, educated and ethical does not guarantee that he has any idea of what he is doing. The catch is that a clueless person is generally unware that he's clueless, so he can be quite eithcal and professional in what he thinks he is doing. Watch the hordes of ATM zealots - many of them with very impressive credentials. Does not make their "contribution" any more worthwhile. --vadim

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Off topic: Numbers of Internet engineers/operators
by Pete Kruckenberg 23 Aug '99

23 Aug '99

This is probably off-topic for the list, so I apologize. I'm trying to find some numbers (surveys, etc) that show the numbers of network engineers and operators (ie operations people, network engineers, network architects, possibly systems engineers, sysadmins, etc--for both Internet and/or intranet networks) that are working on the Internet today and maybe projections for the future. Numbers on personnel shortages would be good, too. Thanks for any references you can give me. Pete.

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mailing list
by Larry Birch 23 Aug '99

23 Aug '99

I made a post recently and was informed that it was off topic and that I should consult "newbie" mailing lists for questions of this type. I have a desire to develop some "clue" but unfortunantly I was not given any direction as to where to go to subscribe to these mailing lists. If someone would please point me in the direction of these mailing lists I would appreciate it. Off list responses are fine lbirch(a)wans.net . I realize this is not on-topic so please no flame.

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Re: cheap GPS
by Sean Donelan 23 Aug '99

23 Aug '99

>It's too early to say with high confidence, but you had to stretch pretty >far away from the question you asked (will it cause time problems with >NTP, etc) to find a problem with the GPS rollover. General reports are >that it went better than expected and that few critical systems were >impacted. If you had asked whether anyone would be hit by the rollover, I >would have said of course there were going to be systems and people hit. >It may be fun to watch the PR wars that result. I carefully avoided asking about NTP or any specific uses of the time signals. My question was would the GPS rollover cause more or fewer problems than when NIST set daylight savings time wrong in 1992. Approximately 600 people have reported problems, so far, due to the GPS rollover. NIST claimed fewer than a dozen reported problems when daylight savings time was set incorrectly in 1992. 12 < 600 Both are pretty small numbers, but as you point out people aren't very good at understanding extremely rare risks. You need to be carefull when you say XYZ will cause almost no problems, you didn't mean they specifically wouldn't have a problem with XYZ. See airplane crash, nuclear plant meltdown, etc. It is a PR problem, and technical people aren't always the best ones at explaining how a risk affects the public. -- Sean Donelan, Data Research Associates, Inc, St. Louis, MO Affiliation given for identification not representation

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Re: cheap GPS
by Sean Donelan 23 Aug '99

23 Aug '99

SEAN(a)dra.COM (Sean Donelan) writes: >>http://www.navcen.uscg.mil/gps/geninfo/y2k/gpsweek.htm >> >> Something to look forward to. :) > >Any predictions whether this will have more or fewer affects than >NIST setting daylight savings time in the wrong month a few years >ago on WWV/B? Those wagering the GPS roller over would have fewer affects, I think you lost. Pioneer, Japan reports they have 450 people answering phones from customers with car GPS navigation systems which have failed. Japan's MITA estimates 95,000 units in Japan are affected. I couldn't find anything on the engligh-language Pioneer.co.jp web pages about the problem. The US Air Force reports the satellites and control system rolled over without incident. The US Coast Guard has received no reports of civilian problems within the USA this evening. -- Sean Donelan, Data Research Associates, Inc, St. Louis, MO Affiliation given for identification not representation

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Re: cheap GPS
by Sean Donelan 23 Aug '99

23 Aug '99

bmanning(a)vacation.karoshi.COM writes: >http://www.navcen.uscg.mil/gps/geninfo/y2k/gpsweek.htm > > Something to look forward to. :) Any predictions whether this will have more or fewer affects than NIST setting daylight savings time in the wrong month a few years ago on WWV/B? -- Sean Donelan, Data Research Associates, Inc, St. Louis, MO Affiliation given for identification not representation

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Re: "Engineer" (Was: Tech contact for Qwest?)
by Sean Donelan 22 Aug '99

22 Aug '99

david(a)brouda.COM (David Brouda) writes: >Two of the definitions of an "engineer" are: In Missouri you can only call yourself an engineer if you hold a Missouri P.E. license or you wear a stripped hat and drive a train. -- Sean Donelan, Data Research Associates, Inc, St. Louis, MO Affiliation given for identification not representation

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"Engineer" (Was: Tech contact for Qwest?)
by David Brouda 22 Aug '99

22 Aug '99

I have to agree with the statement that the title of Engineer is thrown about a great deal. Two of the definitions of an "engineer" are: - a person who is trained in or follows as a profession a branch of engineering - a person who carries through an enterprise by skillful or artful contrivance (Engineering can be defined as: the application of science and mathematics by which the properties of matter and the sources of energy in nature are made useful to people) A "profession" is defined as: - a calling requiring specialized knowledge and often long and intensive academic preparation <Definitions from Merriam Webster, http://www.m-w.com> I have been working as an "Engineer" (by title) for an ISP for the past three and a half years. I am also entering my fifth year in a five year undergraduate electrical engineering curriculum. In school we are taught what it means to be an "engineer" and what a "professional," "professionalism" are. Almost all engineering students at every college and university are taught 'engineering ethics.' The National Society of Professional Engineers has a code of ethics which has six fundamental canons: Engineers, in the fulfillment of their professional duties, shall: 1. Hold paramount the safety, health and welfare of the public. 2. Perform services only in areas of their competence. 3. Issue public statements only in an objective and truthful manner. 4. Act for each employer or client as faithful agents or trustees. 5. Avoid deceptive acts. 6. Conduct themselves honorably, responsibly, ethically, and lawfully so as to enhance the honor, reputation, and usefulness of the profession. <National Society of Professional Engineers, http://www.nspe.org> Most engineering societies and professional organizations have similar codes of ethics. Now, I have mentioned three key words: engineer, professional, and ethics. As a student of engineering, I believe that these three words go hand-in-hand. While I am not trying to lecture anyone, I am merely trying to point out what an engineer really is. You don't have to have a degree or be part of a professional organization to be an engineer, you merely have to be trained with specialized knowledge in the application of mathematics and science and use that knowledge in a manner that will benefit the public. Of course, anyone can call themselves, or be called, or be given the title of engineer; but, that doesn't mean they are an engineer. (The English language has words that have specific meanings. By using the words for something they were not intended for, we make those words lose their original meaning.) Everyone is entitled to their own opinions. The above statements are merely the opinions which I have formed over the past four years. Someone else can feel free to define and discuss what an "operator" and "technician" are and how those are different from what an "engineer" is. David Brouda Four-Fifths of an Engineer by education, one year by application; One year operator by application and one and a half years technician by application.

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Re: FW: Tech contact for Qwest?
by Paul Vixie 22 Aug '99

22 Aug '99

ekgermann(a)cctec.com (Eric Germann) writes: > I think today most are a little too liberal with the term engineer. Those > of us who went the traditional route of education and earned the title as > an ME, EE or CE sometimes bristle that we're lumped in with the guy who > just passed his CNE from the books. hmmm. then, how do you feel about being lumped in with highschool dropouts who have no certification whatsoever? -- Paul Vixie <vixie(a)mibh.net> >> But what *IS* the internet? > It's the largest equivalence class in the reflexive transitive > symmetric closure of the relationship "can be reached by an IP > packet from". --Seth Breidbart

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Tech contact for Qwest?
by Brian Tackett 21 Aug '99

21 Aug '99

All, Anyone have a knowledgeable technical contact for Qwest? We've been working through the night to resolve some problems and been totally unable to talk to anyone who will tell us anything beyond "It must be your CPE". Any help would be greatly appreciated

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