March 1999 - Test - lists.nanog.org

A pair of interesting web site outages
by Sean Donelan 28 Mar '99

28 Mar '99

Normally I wouldn't consider either of these very interesting, but both happening at the same time has a slight operational interest. The web site www.atis.org is one of the locations the telephone industry stores its emergency contact information so carriers can contact each other. It is also the web home for the reports issued by the network reliability analysis process. The web site is currently down (4:30 EST) The web site www.whitehouse.gov is a well-known government site, containing a variaty of current event information. This web site is also currently down (4:30 EST). Both sites pass through PSI's Herndon, Virginia offices. I sent a few queries to people before sending this message, but didn't receive an immediate response. I assume its just coincidence these sites failed at the same time. But it was interesting how seemingly unrelated things can happen at the same time. -- Sean Donelan, Data Research Associates, Inc, St. Louis, MO Affiliation given for identification not representation

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Re: Network Solutions is now in the wringer
by Sean Donelan 28 Mar '99

28 Mar '99

pceasy(a)norfolk.INfi.NET (Dean Robb) writes: >While not a network operator, I think it would be most prudent to consider >and discuss (among those who ARE netops) what do to if, say, the root >server were suddenly comletely unaccessible for several days/permanently >for *whatever* reason. Duh, isn't that why there is more than one root server in the world? Remember various root servers have/are/will be unavailable for varying periods of time. Except for people who track these things closely, very few of these incidents have any noticeble impact on the Internet. The loss of any one (or even two, three, or four) root servers is not much of a crisis. However I feel some people confuse the data in the root servers, with the databases used to generate those zone files. There is a subtle, but important difference. And why simply copying the zone files is not sufficient. >Does anyone know if NSI even has an off-site mirror running? Or are all >the eggs in one basket? Without actually confirming they exist myself, NSI has reported in various forums including NANOG they have off-site backups. The GTLD's generally have much better backup, and diversity than most country TLD's, many US subdomains and ISP delegations. -- Sean Donelan, Data Research Associates, Inc, St. Louis, MO Affiliation given for identification not representation

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Re: Network Solutions is now in the wringer
by Sean Donelan 28 Mar '99

28 Mar '99

pceasy(a)norfolk.INfi.NET (Dean Robb) writes: >So who has copies of the databases? If NSI's master (the a-root?) is >unavailable, new domains obviously wouldn't propagate, but how long can the >other root servers go without getting an update? Does the system as >currently configured *require* some server somewhere to be the master and >is there one that can take over if NSI's are toast? It depends. How's that for an ambigous answer. Technically the other root servers can go for a long time (e.g. at least until the sun engulfs the earth) without getting an update. However, there are other concerns beyond the scop of this list (social, political) which may require the recovery take place sooner. Fact of the matter, this is a lot like asking who has copies of the 1-800 database in case something happens to St. Louis, MO or who has copies of the ATM card database if something happens to Secaucus, NJ. The only answer you will get is there are "disaster recovery plans," but the plans are confidential, proprietary, and you generally can't see them. How good are the plans, or do they really exist? I'm afraid we don't find out until something like Galaxy IV spins out of control and the world discovers the backup plan involves a person going out to each pager site in the country and manually re-pointing the dish at a different satellite over the course of a week. -- Sean Donelan, Data Research Associates, Inc, St. Louis, MO Affiliation given for identification not representation

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Re: Network Solutions is now in the wringer
by Stephen Sprunk 28 Mar '99

28 Mar '99

I believe Vixie stated (back in November) that all of the root server operators now manually FTP the files from NSI and load them as local masters after manual verification (http://www.cctec.com/maillists/nanog/historical/9811/msg00369.html) I don't believe it's been stated publicly whether they keep backup copies, but I'd be surprised if none of them did. Paul? Care to comment? Stephen | | Stephen Sprunk, K5SSS, CCIE #3723 :|: :|: NSA, Network Consulting Engineer :|||: :|||: 14875 Landmark Blvd #400; Dallas, TX .:|||||||:..:|||||||:. Pager: 800-365-4578 / 800-901-6078 C I S C O S Y S T E M S Email: ssprunk(a)cisco.com -----Original Message----- From: Dean Robb <pceasy(a)norfolk.infi.net> To: Sean Donelan <SEAN(a)SDG.DRA.COM> Cc: nanog(a)merit.edu <nanog(a)merit.edu> Date: Saturday, March 27, 1999 22:18 Subject: Re: Network Solutions is now in the wringer > >At 01:22 3/27/99 -0600, Sean Donelan wrote: >> >>pceasy(a)norfolk.INfi.NET (Dean Robb) writes: >>>While not a network operator, I think it would be most prudent to consider >>>and discuss (among those who ARE netops) what do to if, say, the root >>>server were suddenly comletely unaccessible for several days/permanently >>>for *whatever* reason. >> >>Duh, isn't that why there is more than one root server in the world? > >My concern is with the master server that NSI operates. My hope was that a >netop who *didn't* have a contingency plan might start putting one together. > >>However I feel some people confuse the data in the root servers, with >>the databases used to generate those zone files. There is a subtle, but >>important difference. And why simply copying the zone files is not >>sufficient. > >So who has copies of the databases? If NSI's master (the a-root?) is >unavailable, new domains obviously wouldn't propagate, but how long can the >other root servers go without getting an update? Does the system as >currently configured *require* some server somewhere to be the master and >is there one that can take over if NSI's are toast? > > > >"Small minds can only contemplate small ideas".....Unknown > >Dean Robb >Owner, PC-EASY >(757) 495-EASY [3279] >On-site computer repair, upgrades and consultations >Read my game reviews/columns in SimOps on WWW.TheGamers.Net

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Re: Fwd: Internet Domain Name Owner and ISP Address lists on CD-ROM
by Derek Balling 27 Mar '99

27 Mar '99

Many people asked for the full headers (and I thought I had included them but I obviously hadn't). Here they are : Received: from howys.mid-wales.net (howys.mid-wales.net [195.74.101.9]) by lawgiver.megacity.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA01365 for <dredd(a)megacity.org>; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 16:04:17 -0800 From: superman33(a)bigfoot.com Received: from xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx! xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Message-Id: <199903280037.AAA01252(a)howys.mid-wales.net> X-Sender: superman33(a)bigfoot.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 16:15:04 -0500 Subject: Internet Domain Name Owner and ISP Address lists on CD-ROM Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Status: >At 18:58 3/27/99 -0800, you wrote: >> >>So THIS is who's been beating up on the WHOIS servers. >> >>>From: superman33(a)bigfoot.com >>>X-Sender: superman33(a)bigfoot.com >>>X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 >>>Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 16:15:04 -0500 >>>Subject: Internet Domain Name Owner and ISP Address lists on CD-ROM >>> >>>We have compiled an international database with over 2,100,000 data >>>records of Internet Domain Name Owners (Web Site Owners) including >>>Company Name, Contact Names (owner, administrative & technical), >>>Address, Telephone and Fax Numbers, Domain Name or URL, Date the Domain >>>was first registered and E-mail Addresses and sorted it geographically. >>>This list has been reduced from the total list of over 4.6 million Domain >>>Names in our data base as many people own more than one Domain Name. >>> >>>Complete data records of Internet Domain Names are available and can be >>>sorted by City, State, Postal Zip Code, Telephone Area Code or Country. >>>Prices for this data range depending on quantity ordered. >>> >>>We also offer a Personalized Fax Service to over one million North >>>American Domain Name Owners and hundreds of thousands elsewhere, and we >>>can send your message in the form of a personalized business fax letter >>>with none of the tell tale signs of junk fax at a fraction of the cost of >>>regular mail. Call (305) 418-7385 for more information. >>> >>>CD-ROM's >>> >>>The E-mail Address Only CD list of over 2,100,000 Internet Domain >>>Name Owners is divided into directories with one directory for each >>>country. The USA is sorted by state and telephone area code, Canada is >>>sorted by province and telephone area code. Just over 1.5 million of the >>>e-mail addresses on this list are in the USA. This CD has been dubbed The >>>Ultimate Internet marketing Tool. >>> >>>This is a sorted list of over 2,100,000 Internet Domain Name Owner E-mail >>>Addresses as of March 20, 1999 and therefore it is the Cleanest E-mail >>>Address List Available Anywhere, yours to use over and over again, for a >>>FRACTION of the cost that other companies charge. Standard rates for >>>acquiring targeted e-mail lists range from 3 cents to as high as 8 cents >>>per e-mail address. Today you can own it for just US$999.95 plus shipping >>>and handling (a fraction of a cent each). >>> >>>Advertisers are often concerned that not all of the addresses on a >>>list are valid or active. We have taken every possible step to ensure >>>that the list is well-maintained and that there are no "dead addresses" >>>on the list. If you advertise to this list, your ad can reach over >>>2,100,000 unique persons who do business on the Internet and are >>>presumably interested in Internet advertising and marketing. >>> >>>Direct e-mail is the most powerful and least expensive method of >>>advertising. Why not introduce your business to millions of >>>potential customers? If used properly e-mail is the most efficient lead >>>generator available anywhere. >>> >>>There are no SIC codes available for the list and if you only want to >>>advertise to a small portion of the E-mail only list you will have to >>>purchase the entire list. >>> >>> >>>PLUS now you can purchase; >>> >>>The Definitive List of Internet Service Providers on CD. >>> >>>If you are marketing your products or services to ISP's you'll be >>>interested in this list. >>> >>>We have compiled a list of ISP's everywhere, checked to see that they all >>>have active web sites and double checked their mailing addresses through >>>the US and Canadian post offices to ensure that the information in North >>>America is as current as possible. >>> >>>Our list has over 5,000 in North America and thousands more >>>internationally. Our CD-ROM includes their company name, mailing address, >>>telephone and fax numbers, URL, e-mail address and in most cases a >>>contact name. >>> >>>The first release of this product will be March 25, 1999. The CD will >>>retail at US$1599.95 plus shipping & handling. A special introductory >>>discount of 20% will apply to orders paid before April 1999. So order >>>your copy today and take advantage of the introductory special price >>>(US$1279.96). >>> >>>Targeted data in such small quantities as this can retail and usually >>>does for as much as 50 cents per data record, now you can own it for less >>>than 16 cents per record. >>> >>>To order your copies on CD please send us a purchase order and to find >>>out more call us at (305) 418-7385. >>> >>>Portal Opportunities Inc. >>>Basseterre, St. Kitts >>>Tel/Fax - (305) 418-7385 >>> >>>If you reach our voice mail >>>please leave your name, telephone >>>number and e-mail address. >>> >> >> >> >> > > >************************************************** >Andrea Di Lecce (416) 935-6485 >Rogers@Home Network Operations >1 Mount Pleasant Road, Toronto, M4Y 2Y5 >**************************************************

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Fwd: Internet Domain Name Owner and ISP Address lists on CD-ROM
by Derek Balling 27 Mar '99

27 Mar '99

So THIS is who's been beating up on the WHOIS servers. >From: superman33(a)bigfoot.com >X-Sender: superman33(a)bigfoot.com >X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 >Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 16:15:04 -0500 >Subject: Internet Domain Name Owner and ISP Address lists on CD-ROM > >We have compiled an international database with over 2,100,000 data >records of Internet Domain Name Owners (Web Site Owners) including >Company Name, Contact Names (owner, administrative & technical), >Address, Telephone and Fax Numbers, Domain Name or URL, Date the Domain >was first registered and E-mail Addresses and sorted it geographically. >This list has been reduced from the total list of over 4.6 million Domain >Names in our data base as many people own more than one Domain Name. > >Complete data records of Internet Domain Names are available and can be >sorted by City, State, Postal Zip Code, Telephone Area Code or Country. >Prices for this data range depending on quantity ordered. > >We also offer a Personalized Fax Service to over one million North >American Domain Name Owners and hundreds of thousands elsewhere, and we >can send your message in the form of a personalized business fax letter >with none of the tell tale signs of junk fax at a fraction of the cost of >regular mail. Call (305) 418-7385 for more information. > >CD-ROM's > >The E-mail Address Only CD list of over 2,100,000 Internet Domain >Name Owners is divided into directories with one directory for each >country. The USA is sorted by state and telephone area code, Canada is >sorted by province and telephone area code. Just over 1.5 million of the >e-mail addresses on this list are in the USA. This CD has been dubbed The >Ultimate Internet marketing Tool. > >This is a sorted list of over 2,100,000 Internet Domain Name Owner E-mail >Addresses as of March 20, 1999 and therefore it is the Cleanest E-mail >Address List Available Anywhere, yours to use over and over again, for a >FRACTION of the cost that other companies charge. Standard rates for >acquiring targeted e-mail lists range from 3 cents to as high as 8 cents >per e-mail address. Today you can own it for just US$999.95 plus shipping >and handling (a fraction of a cent each). > >Advertisers are often concerned that not all of the addresses on a >list are valid or active. We have taken every possible step to ensure >that the list is well-maintained and that there are no "dead addresses" >on the list. If you advertise to this list, your ad can reach over >2,100,000 unique persons who do business on the Internet and are >presumably interested in Internet advertising and marketing. > >Direct e-mail is the most powerful and least expensive method of >advertising. Why not introduce your business to millions of >potential customers? If used properly e-mail is the most efficient lead >generator available anywhere. > >There are no SIC codes available for the list and if you only want to >advertise to a small portion of the E-mail only list you will have to >purchase the entire list. > > >PLUS now you can purchase; > >The Definitive List of Internet Service Providers on CD. > >If you are marketing your products or services to ISP's you'll be >interested in this list. > >We have compiled a list of ISP's everywhere, checked to see that they all >have active web sites and double checked their mailing addresses through >the US and Canadian post offices to ensure that the information in North >America is as current as possible. > >Our list has over 5,000 in North America and thousands more >internationally. Our CD-ROM includes their company name, mailing address, >telephone and fax numbers, URL, e-mail address and in most cases a >contact name. > >The first release of this product will be March 25, 1999. The CD will >retail at US$1599.95 plus shipping & handling. A special introductory >discount of 20% will apply to orders paid before April 1999. So order >your copy today and take advantage of the introductory special price >(US$1279.96). > >Targeted data in such small quantities as this can retail and usually >does for as much as 50 cents per data record, now you can own it for less >than 16 cents per record. > >To order your copies on CD please send us a purchase order and to find >out more call us at (305) 418-7385. > >Portal Opportunities Inc. >Basseterre, St. Kitts >Tel/Fax - (305) 418-7385 > >If you reach our voice mail >please leave your name, telephone >number and e-mail address. >

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Root servers and transition
by Sean Donelan 27 Mar '99

27 Mar '99

jdfalk(a)cybernothing.ORG (J.D. Falk) writes: > Well, let's take the most extreme case, where NetSol suddenly > ceases performing the services of the InterNIC. In such an > instance, we would hope that the root servers would continue > to function as they are, without any changes being made until > a new "A" server comes into being and is accepted by the root > server operators. In general the failure modes are the same as a huge snow storm, power failure, fiber cut, smurf attack or any of many other natural disasters which could hit the Network Solutions severing their connectivity. Speaking only of technical concerns, the root servers have seven (7) days from the date of the last update before "something" must be done. That something could be simply extending the expiration date of the zone files, and refreshing them; or changing their configuration to be primary for the root zone. Primary servers never expire; but may require some external coordination between the operators to assure consistency. This has happened on a few occasions in the past, and was generally a non-event to everyone except for those few people who keep track of these things. The zone files would be frozen at the last update until a new zone generation process was implemented. With NSI's latest pronouncements, this gets into the political realm. So I'll just leave it at that. GTLD servers operated directly by NSI, but housed in other locations have some other interesting failure modes, namely network engineer single point of failure. No matter what some network engineers may claim, I haven't found any system which could not be brought to its knees by its own network engineers. I don't believe any zones are solely dependent on the GTLD servers operation. The in-addr.arpa, .mil, and .gov zones are sourced by others, nevertheless they have some interesting historical propagation problems through the "A" root server. Ceasing to function is really the easy case. The hard one is if the data is corrupted or otherwise made unusable. I don't know what proceedures the root zone operators have in place to "roll-back" zone files to an earlier version in case of corruption happening at the same time Network Solutions becomes unavailable. -- Sean Donelan, Data Research Associates, Inc, St. Louis, MO Affiliation given for identification not representation

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must quit reading email before coffee
by Steven C. Blair 27 Mar '99

27 Mar '99

my drool cup or my vomit cup. now i don't want my coffee. admin(a)networksolutions-info.com wrote: > > Dear Valued Customer: > > This is to inform you that changes are taking place at Network Solutions' Web site. > > When you visit us at www.networksolutions.com or rs.internic.net, you'll notice that we have a new look. But our look isn't all we've changed. We've brought all of our products, services, and partner informational links together in one, simple, easy to use Web site. > > Our home page has been redesigned to help you easily find the information, services, and tools you need to establish and maintain your Internet presence. We have simplified the user interface, instructions, and help for registering or reserving a new Web address (domain name). Our new "Make Changes" section enables you to quickly find the information needed to update your Web address information. And with the addition of new products and services, Network Solutions can help you easily add value to your Web experience. As always, if you have registered your domain name(s) through one of Network Solutions' Premier program members, you may also contact them for additional products and services. > > Along with our recent doubling of capacity, this seamless integration of our Web sites is yet another way we are continually working to serve you. Whether you type in www.networksolutions.com or rs.internic.net, you'll end up at the right place. Network Solutions - the dot com peopleTM - is your one-stop shop for your Internet presence. > > We encourage you to visit us at www.networksolutions.com and learn about more ways to maximize your presence on the Internet! > > Sincerely, > > Charles A. Gomes > Vice President, Customer Programs > > NOTE: This message is being sent only to the main/administrative contact for your Web address (domain name). It is for notification purposes only. If you have any questions or comments, please contact us via our Web site. -- l&h...../sblair steve blair principal engineer | Tivoli EMEA Advanced Technology Group sblair splat dev dot tivoli dot com | Tivoli UK/Tivoli Rome/Tivoli Europe

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RE: Lawsuit threat against RBL users
by Chris Mauritz 27 Mar '99

27 Mar '99

-----Original Message----- From: Karl Denninger [mailto:karl@Denninger.Net] Sent: Thursday, November 19, 1998 10:26 AM To: Chris Mauritz; 'Sheryl Chapin'; nanog(a)merit.edu Subject: Re: Lawsuit threat against RBL users >The problem with this is that someone, sooner or later, is going to >take a run at people trying to set up what amounts to a set of contractual >requirements that exceed legal requirements - and then enforce them network >wide. > >The collusive aspect of this is downright scary, especially when coupled >with threats of depeering, active denial of service attacks, etc. *shrug* If I am an ISP, I'm free to have whatever AUP I want. IF clients don't like the AUP, they are free to shop elsewhere. I don't have the ability to force other ISPs to use my AUP or even a close facsimile...nor is there is a method to enforce your 1984 vision anyway. The net is a loose connection of public and private links. If I own a private link and I decide that I'm going to route you into /dev/null...that's what I'll do. There isn't a thing you can do about it. [snip] >There are a lot of "questionable" things that this industry does, but IMHO >this one is near or at the top of the list of things I'd talk to my counsel >about.... Knock yourself out. Be sure to let us know what your legal eagle has to say on the matter. Chris

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RSVP
by Alex P. Rudnev 27 Mar '99

27 Mar '99

Have anyone ANY example of using RSVP in real life? I mean - such case when RSVP really increase some service, not RSVP over free trunks. Aleksei Roudnev, Network Operations Center, Relcom, Moscow (+7 095) 194-19-95 (Network Operations Center Hot Line),(+7 095) 230-41-41, N 13729 (pager) (+7 095) 196-72-12 (Support), (+7 095) 194-33-28 (Fax)

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