May 1998 - Test - lists.nanog.org

NANOG 13 HOTEL INFO
by Pam Ciesla 22 May '98

22 May '98

I just found out that the Hyatt no longer has rooms available on June 8. The following are hotels near the Hyatt: Ritz-Carlton Dearborn 300 Town Center Dr (about a mile) 313-441-2000 $205 + tax per night Courtyard by Marriott 5200 Mercury Dr Dearborn, MI 313-271-1400 5 minutes by car $64-$104 + tax per night (depending on date) The Dearborn Inn (very nice old hotel) 20301 Oakwood Blvd. Dearborn, MI 313-271-2700 $109 + tax per night 10 minutes by car Quality Inn 21430 Michigan Ave Dearborn, MI 313-565-7250 1 mile $79-$99 + tax per night depending on room. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Pam Ciesla 734-936-0172 - phone Merit Network, Inc. 734-647-3185 - fax University of Michigan 4251 Plymouth Road Bldg. I, Suite C Ann Arbor, MI 48105-2785 -----------------------------------------------------------------------

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Re: apnic, censorship, and other fecal matter.
by shields＠crosslink.net 22 May '98

22 May '98

In article <Pine.LNX.3.95.980522010051.723p-100000(a)tarkin.fdt.net>, Jon Lewis <jlewis(a)inorganic5.fdt.net> wrote: > I think someone's .procmailrc is broken. Try adding the following close > to the top. I don't know how many times I've posted this. It makes naong utterly clean for me. :0: * ^Message-Id: .*(unety\.net|unir\.net)> $JUNK :0: * ^(References|In-Reply-To): .*(unety\.net|unir\.net) $JUNK :0: * ^TOJimFleming(a)(unety\.net|unir.corp) $JUNK I set $JUNK to a date-dependent file which gets rotated for ten days just i case I need to retrieve a false positive... you can set it to /dev/null if you like simpler solutions. nanog's SNR seems to me to have gone down *sharply* lately, even in the non-Fleming threads. I'd guess the Fleming threads are bad too, but not having seen them, I don't know. -- Shields, CrossLink.

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cflowd and HPUX
by Brad Roldan 22 May '98

22 May '98

*** This is a programming specific question. I recently tried porting cflowd over to HPUX (10.20). Surprisingly, I only needed to change two lines of code in the daemon to get everything working. The problem is that cflowd core dumps after a few minutes of running. The following messages appear in my syslog: May 15 19:02:11 netflow cflowd[1287]: [E] ports.c:327 mmap() failed for /opt/Data/cflow/15.1.200.36.port.cur: Not enough space May 15 19:02:12 netflow cflowd[1288]: [E] cflowd.c:851 manager (proc 1287) exited. Exiting. mmap() returns ENOMEM (no more memory) even though I have plenty of memory left! If anyone has encountered this problem, I'd like to know how you got around it. (and no, I can't go out and buy a Sun box :) Thanks for 'da help Brad -- Brad Roldan Hewlett Packard Network Engineer Palo Alto, Ca broldan(a)corp.hp.com 650-236-3005

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Interweather source code
by Michael Dillon 22 May '98

22 May '98

There is an article at the bottom of this page http://www.macosrumors.com/ about a distributed client system to gather standard, accurate statistics about the network. They are considering releasing the source code to this system similar to Netscape's release of Mozilla. -- Michael Dillon - Internet & ISP Consulting Memra Communications Inc. - E-mail: michael(a)memra.com http://www.memra.com - *check out the new name & new website*

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RE: FW: APNIC's Censorship
by Jim Fleming 22 May '98

22 May '98

On Thursday, May 21, 1998 4:12 AM, Michael Dillon[SMTP:michael@memra.com] wrote: @On Thu, 21 May 1998, Jim Fleming wrote: @ @> Laina Raveendran Greene is currently a candidate in the Internet @> Society's political elections... @> http://www.isoc.org/members/vote/98election/98candinfo.shtml#LAINA @> REVEENDREN GREENE she has a background with the ITU and large telco @> interests which Michael Dillon falsely claims I have. @ @This sounds like you are saying that you do NOT have a background with @large telco interets. Then how do you explain your statement posted to the @IETF mailing list on Nov 1/1996 saying that you used to work for AT&T's @Bell Labs? Here is what you said: @ @ No, Bill Frezza worked primarily in Holmdel, NJ. @ @ Phil Karn and I worked together at Bell Labs Indian Hill, in @ Naperville, IL. @ @ "ihnss" was located there...if you go back that far... @ @Are you attempting to "coverup" your background? @ @Did they tell you to deny everything? @ @> > There is a different between being part of the process and raising @> > valid @> > question and the disruptive attacks Jim launched against the APNIC and @> > Asia/Pacific ISP community. While Jim was launching his attacks, solid @> > discussion was attempted by JPNIC member to clarify items from the @ @How long have you been involved in these "covert" operations in Asia? @ @You seem to spend a lot of time collecting information about Internet @organizations and writing disruptive emails. Who pays you for all this @time? @ @Have you ever had CIA "psychops" training? I hear they are very good. @ @ @-- @Michael Dillon - Internet & ISP Consulting @Memra Communications Inc. - E-mail: michael(a)memra.com @http://www.memra.com - *check out the new name & new website* @ @ @ @ @@@@ http://www.ntia.doc.gov/ntiahome/domainname/130dftmail/marchindex.htm "Comments on the Technical Management of Internet Domain Names Cumulative Index March, 1998 @@@@@@@@@@ @@@@ http://www.ntia.doc.gov/ntiahome/domainname/130dftmail/03_23_98-2.htm March 23, 1998 Part Two ... - Unir Corporation; Jim Fleming JimFleming(a)doorstep.unety.net .... @@@@@@@ - Jim Fleming Unir Corporation - http://www.unir.net/IPv8 IPv8 - Designed for the Rest of the Human Race AM Radio Stations ---> http://www.DOT.AM

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Re: a little thought on exchanging traffic
by Sean Donelan 21 May '98

21 May '98

>Anyone thought about eliminating large physical exchange points and replacing >them with a more distributed architecture? Yes, lots of folks have given it lots of thought. >Multiple data centers interconnected over ATM in a single metro area run by >indepdenant entities who are free to provide any level of service or value >add they wish. The fundamental problem is there are no magic pixie dust in this business. Sure, some people like to put out press releases saying how they've solved all the worlds problems using the Magic Frambulator. But what they've usually done is ignored half the problem. The Sanfrancisco NAP is actually a distributed architecture of several ATM switches around the bay area. And although the SF-NAP is handling far less traffic than MAE-East on a daily basis, it too has suffered from the problems of congested trunk lines between the switches. There have been other proposals too. Most of the 'solutions' I've seen have had either far fewer number of interconnects, or far less total cross-connect bandwidth. It seems to be very difficult to get both. When they get close to either the number of connections, or the amount of traffic, they seem to run into the same walls. -- Sean Donelan, Data Research Associates, Inc, St. Louis, MO Affiliation given for identification not representation

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RE: Fwd: FW: Removal from APNIC lists
by John Fraizer - Administrator 21 May '98

21 May '98

At 12:19 PM 5/20/98 -0500, you wrote: >In other words, if someone were to block the entire 202.x.x.x >range they would be assured they would not lose any contact >with North America ? I don't know about that but when I blocked all IP's assigned to APNIC, my credit card fraud rate went down drasticly. Lil' bastards. ------- John Fraizer (tvo) | __ _ | The System Administrator | / / (_)__ __ ____ __ | The choice mailto:tvo@EnterZone.Net | / /__/ / _ \/ // /\ \/ / | of a GNU http://www.EnterZone.Net/ | /____/_/_//_/\_,_/ /_/\_\ | Generation A 486 is a terrible thing to waste...

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RE: a little thought on exchanging traffic
by Jim Fleming 21 May '98

21 May '98

On Wednesday, May 20, 1998 6:18 AM, Sean Donelan[SMTP:SEAN@SDG.DRA.COM] wrote: @>Anyone thought about eliminating large physical exchange points and replacing @>them with a more distributed architecture? @ @Yes, lots of folks have given it lots of thought. @ @>Multiple data centers interconnected over ATM in a single metro area run by @>indepdenant entities who are free to provide any level of service or value @>add they wish. @ @The fundamental problem is there are no magic pixie dust in this business. @Sure, some people like to put out press releases saying how they've solved @all the worlds problems using the Magic Frambulator. But what they've usually @done is ignored half the problem. @ Or...they have designed systems that have the wrong goals... For example, some people design routers to "attract packets" like magnets. They design protocols for routers to tell other routers what packets to send them. Why on earth do people and companies want packets ? Processing packets costs time and money. Imagine a world where routers tell other routers what NOT to send them. Routers should be designed to "repel packets" and to quickly get rid of the ones they have. They should also be designed to send them as quickly as possible to the place they belong and not to some black-hole called a NAP so that people can puff out their chests about their NAP being bigger than the next NAP. With the introduction of next-generation Internet systems, we might have a chance to reverse some of the thinking that has produced the current bottle-necks. Organizations like NANOG can play a key role because ultimately the buck stops at your networks, routers, firewalls, servers, etc. The key to the future is to make sure packets do not also stop there or come there when you do not want them. ;-) - Jim Fleming Unir Corporation - http://www.unir.net/IPv8 IPv8 - Designed for the Rest of the Human Race AM Radio Stations ---> http://www.DOT.AM

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Cisco ATM DS3 port adapter?
by Louis Destree 21 May '98

21 May '98

Greetings, I've been up one side and down the other of CCO, but I can't find an ATM DS3 port adapter for the VIP cards. They make vauge references to them online, but I can't find a part number. Anyone know if such a beastie exists? Have a part number? Thanks, Louis -- Louis A. Destree Senior Network Engineer FlashNet Communications destree(a)flash.net

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Re: The questions stand
by Scott Gardner Anderson 21 May '98

21 May '98

On Thu, 21 May 1998, Karl Denninger wrote: > > On Thu, May 21, 1998 at 12:44:11AM -0400, John Fraizer - Administrator wrote: > > > > Lets see how they are performing today, shall we? > > [somebox]:~# traceroute customer.of.blah-12345-we-are-a-nap.net [snip] > > Wow. Now, that's some lightning speed. <sic> > > And NOW, lets look at someone with a real Tier One provider: > > [somebox]:~# traceroute www.mcs.net > > traceroute: Warning: Multiple interfaces found; using x.x.x.x @ eth0 > > traceroute to www.mcs.net (205.164.8.12), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets > > 1 (Default Gateway) (x.x.x.1) 0.495 ms 0.415 ms 0.385 ms > > 2 (Tier One provider) (x.x.x.21) 2.424 ms 1.630 ms 1.529 ms > > 3 aads.good.net (198.32.130.49) 15.131 ms 13.261 ms 13.930 ms > > 4 mcsnet.chicago.good.net (207.98.189.130) 14.775 ms 15.296 ms 16.193 ms > > 5 www.mcs.net (205.164.8.12) 14.592 ms 14.750 ms 14.504 ms > > BTW: Karl, lightning fast as always to your site. > > Then again, my background and engineering efforts have been geared towards > the Fortune-50 marketplace and OLTP environments where ANY packet loss or > significant hysteresis in the transport times is considered unacceptable. > Seems to depend on where you sit. John is only a few hops away (on the same 'Tier 1' provider?) as Karl, so traffic is dependant on only three parties maintaining a clean network. Across another backbone (via public view sage.aspire.net) it's not so clean, probably due to packet loss across the Tier 1 provider that they use (UUNet) or loss at an exchange point between UUNet and Napnet to get to Karl's network. ----205.164.8.12 PING Statistics---- 15 packets transmitted, 13 packets received, 13% packet loss round-trip (ms) min/avg/max = 40/52/190 Meanwhile, it's clean from where I sit: ----205.164.8.12 PING Statistics---- 21 packets transmitted, 21 packets received, 0% packet loss round-trip (ms) min/avg/max = 85/96/299 and Aspire is clean from here: ----sage.aspire.net PING Statistics---- 16 packets transmitted, 16 packets received, 0% packet loss round-trip (ms) min/avg/max = 23/30/54 but I see loss from NetAxs to me: ----199.184.165.2 PING Statistics---- 24 packets transmitted, 22 packets received, 8% packet loss round-trip (ms) min/avg/max = 29/48/70 while it's clean from NetAxs to MCS: ----www.mcs.net PING Statistics---- 17 packets transmitted, 17 packets received, 0% packet loss round-trip (ms) min/avg/max = 22/26/37 Despite our best intentions, packet loss and delay will always exists from our networks to certain destinations, no matter whether we use 'Tier 1' providers or companies that are creating private NAPs of their own. And how it looks from me to you doesn't mean much, in the long run - how it looks across the board from you to your customer's destinations is what makes a difference. If that's accomplished with a small backbone provider, a big player like MCI, or some local 'private nap' company shouldn't make any difference to anyone but yourself. SGA

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