November 1998 - Test - lists.nanog.org

ORBS: Another Vigilante Group
by Bob Allisat 20 Nov '98

20 Nov '98

I guess we have another vigilante delusional on the network with these juvenilles and their "open relay" so-called testing. I wonder if other persons on this list have had their systems attacked in a similar manner to our servers? I also wonder what damage this does to the perception of the network increasingly spiralling into a mere collection of random acts by arbitrary mentally incapable hackers. Bob Allisat Free Community Network _ bob(a)fcn.net . http://fcn.net http://fcn.net/allisat _ http://fcn.net/draft ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 11:39:28 -0800 From: orbs(a)auto.dorkslayers.com To: bob(a)fcn.net Subject: your E-mail to orbs(a)auto.dorkslayers.com Thank you for sending mail to ORBS. You will not receive another response, other than this message, from ORBS unless your message contains: 1) A request for our DNS transfer-mode agreement. 2) A request for updates to our web site. 3) Information of interest regarding a relay that my site says is closed but you have verified is not. 4) Other information of direct interest to the site maintainer (like lists of open relays, etc.) 5) A request for a manual test of one or more servers that you maintain to verify that you have indeed fixed your open relay. I may take a while to respond, if I haven't gotten back to you in a week, poke me again. You can just remove your server from the list via the web page, if it's still open it will be re-added and you will receive another blocking notification. 6) Details of the relay prevention measures in place on your server, that can be verified from outside, if you are asking to be removed from our list but your server still fails a simple relay test. Note that these should include the inability to send to more than 5 recipients per message, or an exponential time delay on a per-recipient basis, of substantial enough duration to deter spammers. Note that if I unblock you due to such measures and subsequently receive proof of spam received via your server, that you will be blocked again until you completely disable relay. All other messages will be discarded unanswered, unless I'm bored, which doesn't happen often. Note that abusive or threatening messages may be posted to various anti-spam forums, at my discretion. Your question or statement is most likely addressed below. ----- ORBS Frequently Asked Questions Q) Help! My E-mail is being blocked and I don't understand the error messages or what's going on. A) Talk to whoever runs your mail server, they have a problem that needs to be fixed. Yes, really, regardless of what they tell you (this includes Netcom users). Q) I have fixed my open relay, please take me off your list. A) Please use our web site tools as instructed in the notification message. Our resources are limited and we cannot spend time doing things for which there are automated tools. See: http://www.dorkslayers.com/orbs/closed1.cgi Q) Ok, already, my relay's fixed but you keep trying to send test messages through it. A) Sorry, for reliability sake, our test program tests every 6 hours for 3 days unless a test makes it through. The tests will stop after that time and no one will be able to submit your IP address for further testing without manual intervention on our part. Q) I've removed my closed relay using your web page but sites are still blocking my mail. A) It can take up to 6 hours for changes made to the database to make it into the ORBS zone and be propogated to all subscriber sites. Sorry for the delay. Q) How do I know you're not a spammer or hacker? A) Post a query to SPAM-L, spamtools, or news.admin.net-abuse.email. We are well known in the anti-spam community and others will vouch for what we do. Q) We use Spamshield which lets our users relay but stops spammers. A) No, it doesn't. I used to accept this but received numerous examples of spam received via Spamshield-protected servers. Check out POP before SMTP instead, it actually works. Q) ORBS made a mistake. Our server doesn't permit relay, or there is no mail server at the address you've blocked. A) You'd be surprised how often I hear this. Let me assure you, there has been no mistake. Your server will not be placed on the list unless my 'bot successfully injects an E-mail message into the IP address you were told about, and that E-mail message makes it back out to the testing address. No exceptions. Of the dozens of systems people have told me I've made a mistake on, not one has been valid. I will no longer respond to these messages. Q) I know our server is open, but I can't fix it yet. Please don't publish the address or spammers will use it. A) I don't "publish" the addresses on the list. The list is made available as a DNS zone that can be queried by servers before they accept mail from anywhere. If they find that the remote address is present in the zone, they may choose to reject the message, they may choose to add a Header field telling the recipient that the remote server is on the list, or they may do nothing. In any case, they at no time have access to the contents of the list. Q) I don't understand why I have been placed on your list, and I am the administrator of my mail server. A) You are not qualified to administer your mail server. Hire someone who is. Give them the message we sent you and point them to our web site. Q) I don't know how to close my relay, help me. A) Check out http://www.dorkslayers.com/orbs/blockedadmin.cgi There are links at the bottom of the page to sites with that information. We also list some consultants who may be able to help you. You can also do a web search for relay restriction and related terms, there are lots of resources out there. If you use a commercial MTA, call your vendor or access their support resources. Q) My current MTA cannot restrict relay. A) Unplug it. Spend $49.00 on a RedHat CD and install it. Q) I'm going to sue you if you don't take me off your list. A) Be my guest. Since mail can't be blocked by my list directly (the recipient must choose to use my list to block mail), liability really belongs to those using my list. (and yes, either the recipient of your message or their system administrator has _chosen_ to use the ORBS list to block mail). US courts have consistently upheld that recipients have the right to block based on whatever criteria they choose. Also, your server gets on my list for one reason only - it permits third-party relay. This is tested prior to your server being placed on the list. Consequently, my listing your server is a statement of fact, since I only claim that your system has failed a relay test, and cannot be considered libellous. You would be better advised to spend the money on a consultant who can close your open relay for you. Q) I need to run an open relay for my remote users. Please take me off your list. A) No. Check out authenticated SMTP, POP before SMTP or POP XMIT. If MSN and Geocities can finally fix their relays, so can you. Q) I've fixed my relay and reported it to your list, but my mail's still being blocked. A) If the web page reports that you are no longer on our list, it may still take a couple of hours to make into the DNS system. Sorry for the delay. Q) Please send me details of the spamming incident which resulted in our being added to your list. A) I cannot. I don't have that information. Q) Who reported my relay to your site? A) I don't record that information. Q) Who gave you the authority to play God or to police the Internet? A) I don't. I provide a free service that many sites find valuable, a service which helps them combat a huge problem - relay spam. Many ORBS users have written to tell me that ORBS is their single most effective tool for stopping spam. You can't argue with success. Q) Why should we take you seriously with a name like Dorkslayers, or with invalid InterNIC contact info? A) Why should I care if you take me seriously? It's your E-mail. ---- Bob Allisat Free Community Network _ bob(a)fcn.net . http://fcn.net http://fcn.net/allisat _ http://fcn.net/draft

1 0

ORBS Relay "Test" FCN ATTACK
by Bob Allisat 20 Nov '98

20 Nov '98

To whom it may concern, At 16:31 EST, an attempt to do unauthorized mail relaying through the scriba.org/FCN.NET server was made from your system. None of your users have been authorized to do so, and as such, it is being viewed at as a very serious matter. This server does not authorize non-local users to relay mail. Attempts, however, are logged. Allow us to remind you that the use of other people's domain and user names may be pursued in a court of law for breach of international copyright laws and impersonation. Today's attack was very distasteful in behavior: not closing connections properly, no proper from-line in the SMTP envelope, non-local user relay attempt, and on top of this several attempts in very few seconds. Attempting to do anything like this again may cause a lawsuit for the attempt of breaking the system. Please halt this activitiy, or risk legal action. Gard SCRIBA/FCN System Administrator PS - We have repeatedly tried to e-mail the originators of the attack but our mail has been filtered from this site. Further, our server has been attacked several time more over the course of this afternoon. We have several reccomendations to make to other people who may wish to work more constructively in this regard: - If you wish to engage in these activities obtain the permission of the Server Admin *before* attacking their machines. - Keep a database of servers you have tested (after obtaining permission) for future referance and do not repeat your actions. respectfully, Bob Allisat Free Community Network _ bob(a)fcn.net . http://fcn.net http://fcn.net/allisat _ http://fcn.net/draft To: <orbs(a)dorkslayers.com>, <nanog(a)merit.edu> Cc: <abuse(a)dorkslayers.com>, <postmaster(a)dorkslayers.com>, <admin(a)dorkslayers.com>, <abuse(a)simkin.com, postmaster(a)simkin.com>, <admin(a)simkin.com>, <sword(a)dorkslayers.com>, <ahodgson(a)simkin.com> ________________________________________________________________ ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Return-Path: junkmail Received: (from root@localhost) by scriba.org (8.8.5/8.7.3) id QAA23362 for junkmail; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 16:32:02 -0500 Received: from [199.175.137.111:2905] by scriba.org with SLIME; Thu Nov 19 16:32:01 1998 X-Slime-scriba.org: Sender= To: dorktest(a)dorkslayers.com From: sender(a)dorkslayers.com Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 01:51:21 GMT X-Token: closhouv X-Envelope-Sender: <null> Message-Id: <208.222.122.049(a)skynet.simkin.com> Subject: ORBS Relay Test X-Slime-Status: Junk X-Slime-Recepients: <dorktest(a)dorkslayers.com> This program tests for open relays. Open relays will automatically be added to the Dorkslayers Open Relay Blocking List (see http://www.dorkslayers.com/orbs/) Do not use the above addresses to contact me - use orbs(a)dorkslayers.com. ---------- Slime LOG ---------- Thu Nov 19 16:31:30 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2892] Connect Thu Nov 19 16:31:31 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2892] : HELO skynet.simkin.com Thu Nov 19 16:31:31 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2892] : MAIL FROM: <sender(a)dorkslayers.com> Thu Nov 19 16:31:31 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2892] : RCPT TO: <dorktest(a)dorkslayers.com> Thu Nov 19 16:31:31 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2892] ERROR! Attempt to relay mail to <dorktest(a)dorkslayers.com> Thu Nov 19 16:31:31 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2893] Connect Thu Nov 19 16:31:32 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2893] : HELO skynet.simkin.com Thu Nov 19 16:31:34 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2893] : MAIL FROM: <> Thu Nov 19 16:31:34 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2893] ERROR! No @ sign in from: <> Thu Nov 19 16:31:34 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2893] : RCPT TO: <dorktest(a)dorkslayers.com> Thu Nov 19 16:31:35 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2893] : DATA Thu Nov 19 16:31:35 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2893] From=junkmail Rcpt=junkmail Thu Nov 19 16:31:35 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2893] Sendmail=0 Thu Nov 19 16:31:36 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2893] : QUIT Thu Nov 19 16:31:36 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2893] Exiting Thu Nov 19 16:31:36 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2895] Connect Thu Nov 19 16:31:37 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2895] : HELO skynet.simkin.com Thu Nov 19 16:31:37 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2895] : MAIL FROM: <sender(a)dorkslayers.com> Thu Nov 19 16:31:37 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2895] : RCPT TO: <dorktest(a)dorkslayers.com> Thu Nov 19 16:31:37 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2895] ERROR! Attempt to relay mail to <dorktest(a)dorkslayers.com> Thu Nov 19 16:31:38 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2897] Connect Thu Nov 19 16:31:38 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2897] : HELO skynet.simkin.com Thu Nov 19 16:31:38 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2897] : MAIL FROM: <> Thu Nov 19 16:31:38 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2897] ERROR! No @ sign in from: <> Thu Nov 19 16:31:38 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2897] : RCPT TO: <dorktest(a)dorkslayers.com> Thu Nov 19 16:31:39 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2897] : DATA Thu Nov 19 16:31:40 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2897] From=junkmail Rcpt=junkmail Thu Nov 19 16:31:40 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2897] Sendmail=0 Thu Nov 19 16:31:40 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2897] : QUIT Thu Nov 19 16:31:40 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2897] Exiting Thu Nov 19 16:31:45 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2898] Connect Thu Nov 19 16:31:48 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2898] : HELO skynet.simkin.com Thu Nov 19 16:31:49 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2898] : MAIL FROM: <sender(a)dorkslayers.com> Thu Nov 19 16:31:49 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2898] : RCPT TO: <dorktest(a)dorkslayers.com> Thu Nov 19 16:31:49 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2898] ERROR! Attempt to relay mail to <dorktest(a)dorkslayers.com> Thu Nov 19 16:31:49 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2899] Connect Thu Nov 19 16:31:50 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2899] : HELO skynet.simkin.com Thu Nov 19 16:31:50 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2899] : MAIL FROM: <> Thu Nov 19 16:31:50 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2899] ERROR! No @ sign in from: <> Thu Nov 19 16:31:52 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2899] : RCPT TO: <dorktest(a)dorkslayers.com> Thu Nov 19 16:31:52 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2899] : DATA Thu Nov 19 16:31:52 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2899] From=junkmail Rcpt=junkmail Thu Nov 19 16:31:53 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2899] Sendmail=0 Thu Nov 19 16:31:53 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2899] : QUIT Thu Nov 19 16:31:53 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2899] Exiting Thu Nov 19 16:31:54 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2902] Connect Thu Nov 19 16:31:55 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2902] : HELO skynet.simkin.com Thu Nov 19 16:31:55 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2902] : MAIL FROM: <sender(a)dorkslayers.com> Thu Nov 19 16:31:56 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2902] : RCPT TO: <dorktest(a)dorkslayers.com> Thu Nov 19 16:31:56 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2902] ERROR! Attempt to relay mail to <dorktest(a)dorkslayers.com> Thu Nov 19 16:31:57 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2903] Connect Thu Nov 19 16:31:57 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2903] : HELO skynet.simkin.com Thu Nov 19 16:31:57 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2903] : MAIL FROM: <> Thu Nov 19 16:31:57 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2903] ERROR! No @ sign in from: <> Thu Nov 19 16:31:57 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2903] : RCPT TO: <dorktest(a)dorkslayers.com> Thu Nov 19 16:31:58 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2903] : DATA Thu Nov 19 16:31:58 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2903] From=junkmail Rcpt=junkmail Thu Nov 19 16:31:58 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2903] Sendmail=0 Thu Nov 19 16:31:59 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2903] : QUIT Thu Nov 19 16:31:59 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2903] Exiting Thu Nov 19 16:31:59 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2904] Connect Thu Nov 19 16:32:00 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2904] : HELO skynet.simkin.com Thu Nov 19 16:32:00 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2904] : MAIL FROM: <sender(a)dorkslayers.com> Thu Nov 19 16:32:00 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2904] : RCPT TO: <dorktest(a)dorkslayers.com> Thu Nov 19 16:32:00 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2904] ERROR! Attempt to relay mail to <dorktest(a)dorkslayers.com> Thu Nov 19 16:32:01 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2905] Connect Thu Nov 19 16:32:01 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2905] : HELO skynet.simkin.com Thu Nov 19 16:32:01 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2905] : MAIL FROM: <> Thu Nov 19 16:32:01 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2905] ERROR! No @ sign in from: <> Thu Nov 19 16:32:01 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2905] : RCPT TO: <dorktest(a)dorkslayers.com> Thu Nov 19 16:32:02 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2905] : DATA Thu Nov 19 16:32:02 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2905] From=junkmail Rcpt=junkmail Thu Nov 19 16:32:02 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2905] Sendmail=0 Thu Nov 19 16:32:03 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2905] : QUIT Thu Nov 19 16:32:03 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2905] Exiting Thu Nov 19 16:32:31 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2892] Idle too long - closing Thu Nov 19 16:32:37 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2895] Idle too long - closing Thu Nov 19 16:32:49 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2898] Idle too long - closing Thu Nov 19 16:32:56 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2902] Idle too long - closing Thu Nov 19 16:33:01 1998 slime [199.175.137.111:2904] Idle too long - closing ---------- Further information ---------- Internic information for dorkslayers.com: Dorkslayers International (DORKSLAYERS-DOM) 1430 - 405 Granville St. Vancouver, BC V6C 1T2 CA Domain Name: DORKSLAYERS.COM Administrative Contact, Technical Contact, Zone Contact: Sword, Dorkslayers (DS6585) sword(a)DORKSLAYERS.COM +1 (604) 555-5555 (FAX) +1 (604) 555-5555 Billing Contact: Sword, Dorkslayers (DS6585) sword(a)DORKSLAYERS.COM +1 (604) 555-5555 (FAX) +1 (604) 555-5555 199.175.137.111 is skynet.simkin.com Internic information for simkin.com: Simkin Network Consulting (SIMKIN-DOM) Suite 1430, 405 Granville St. Vancouver, BC V6C 1T2 CA Domain Name: SIMKIN.COM Administrative Contact, Technical Contact, Zone Contact: Hodgson, Alan J [Systems Specialist] (AH52) ahodgson(a)SIMKIN.COM +1 (604) 555-1234 ext. 103 (FAX) +1 (604) 555-4321 Billing Contact: Hodgson, Alan J [Systems Specialist] (AH52) ahodgson(a)SIMKIN.COM +1 (604) 555-1234 ext. 103 (FAX) +1 (604) 555-4321 Information on 199.175.137.111 from ARIN [No name] (SKYNE7-HST) SKYNET.SIMKIN.COM 199.175.137.111 ________________________________________________________________ Bob Allisat Free Community Network _ bob(a)fcn.net . http://fcn.net http://fcn.net/allisat _ http://fcn.net/draft

1 0

Re: Lawsuit threat against RBL users
by Sean Finn 20 Nov '98

20 Nov '98

At 11:39 PM 11/18/98 -0800, Roeland M.J. Meyer wrote: >That's right. It stops the practice of using a sacrificial account, from >AOL or netcom, to spam for a web-site that is otherwise protected. Does it >make a difference that they didn't spam from their own ISP? Please allow me a moment to ask: Does it make any difference whether your customer actually originated the offending msgs? Couldn't such a spamset come from one of their competitor? Or a chat room hacker that got pissed off? I understand AUP regarding what actually happens on an account. Unless the "throwaway" account can be tied to your customer, then I don't understand the justification for compromising service. (I personally don't find "it's generally true", or "it's too much trouble", or "the end justifies the means" to be especially convincing arguments.)

4 4

luser of the day award!
by owen＠dixon.DeLong.SJ.CA.US 20 Nov '98

20 Nov '98

MAPS is good. Paul is to be commended for his efforts against SPAM. Should Alan actually file suit against Paul, I, for one, will contribute whatever I can to his defense, including time as well as money. I would hope that by now there are at least a few internet-savvy lawyers out there who might even take Pauls case on a pro-bono basis. BBS PRESS has no right to expect connectivity from anyone using the MAPS list, unless they are paying that company for connectivity. The internet works because people are willing to exchange traffic on a good-neighbor basis. Suing the guy two blocks away because he put a gate up to prevent you from walking through his front yard makes very little sense. Owen

1 0

RE: Lawsuit threat against RBL users
by Bob Allisat 20 Nov '98

20 Nov '98

"Brian" writes: > You are misguided. The constitution is "*Congress* shall make no > law....." not "<insert ISP name> shall make no law........" > > Things like freedom of speech, are only really an issue for the > Govt. When it comes to the private sector, we can do what we want. > If you are a private business, like an ISP, and don't want people > to see porn, you can filter porn, and tell people that you feel no > one should see it, and if they don't like it they will go > elsewhere. > > The checks and balances on that law, are the Freedom of > Enterprise, which protects the people. We have inalienable rights that extend beyond these rights to capitalize. These rights extend onto private property, into virtual networks, beyond fire- walls (if we are behind them) and to the heart of Vixie's unconscionable activities. The guy is setting the stage for a cyber-gulag where the unacceptables are simply "Black Holed" into non-existance. First for allegedly sending mail to too many people. Next for whatever silly other offense these despots in training dream up. Slippery. Slope. Bob Allisat Free Community Network _ bob(a)fcn.net . http://fcn.net http://fcn.net/allisat _ http://fcn.net/draft

1 0

Re: Digital Bill of Rights
by Bob Allisat 20 Nov '98

20 Nov '98

Chris Cappuccio writes: > Bob, I see this in your digital bill of rights: > > The right to protection, should we so choose, from mail bombing, > automatic mailers, large, unrequested file or data transfers and > similar harassments. > > How does the RBL violate this? I agree with most judgments made > by the RBL team. I subscribe. End of story... If someone can't > send me junk mail, I still feel pretty free. If someone tries to > send legitimate mail and it fails, best of luck, hotmail exists It violates this because it is, for the most part, involuntary. Furthermore it is a violation of certain fundamental principles of freedom of association and communications besides being a kind of repulsive and rather juvenille vigilante activity in response to the rather messy liberties of a democracy. I *do* have the right to send flyers in an election to my constituents. I *do* have the right to mail announcments to my neighbours. *No-one* have the right to interfere with these lawful activities in a civil society. You are all - Vixie foremost - degrading into envelope steaming, mail trashing creeps. hardly the society I want to see for the digital age. Bob Allisat Free Community Network _ bob(a)fcn.net . http://fcn.net http://fcn.net/allisat _ http://fcn.net/draft

1 0

Re: Black Hole Vixie/RBL
by John M. Brown 20 Nov '98

20 Nov '98

Bob, let me explain a couple of things to you that you seem to not grasp! 1. As the owner of an ISP, the equipment is mine, the network connections are mine, and the right of data to pass through that equipment is mine to control. Its called private property. 2. As a business I have the authority to tell my employee's what they can and can't do AT WORK. For example, I can say that we do not allow the reading of Playboy magazines on company time or property. This is perfectly legal. Yes I am censoring my employee from reading a publication. 3. If the USG was telling us internet providers to block or filter email that contained the word BOBO, then that would (or could) be considered a violation of certain freedoms. The RBL is not a government agency. Read the FAQ 4. The MAPS RBL project is an OPT-IN program. Mail server operators that wish to make use of those services do so of their own free will. 5. How they communicate that to their users (customers) is completely a private matter between them and their users (customers). 6. We tell all of our customers that we subscribe to the MAPS RBL project and as such mail from certain sites may be blocked. Our customers *love* this feature and it is part of the reason the select us as a provider. In closing Mr. Allisat, your statements that the MAPS RBL project is intercepting private Email and is manipulating the free flow of email is false. Though is sounds true to those that lack clue, it is false. The statement that a "technician" is making the decision is also patently false. If you took the time to properly research the FAQ's, the site, etc. you would know that an officer of the company must sign a document in order to use the service, that is to receive a feed. In addition for those that are passively using the service (via DNS lookups) I am quite sure they have the approval of management. If they don't and management doesn't support the choice, then it would be reversed. What we are protecting, and what is our right to protect, is theft of service. jmbrown(a)ihighway.net Copyright 1998 by John M. Brown All rights reserved. This message may only be referenced or duplicated in its entirety. Sub parts are a violation of this limited use statement. At 01:55 AM 2/7/36 -0500, you wrote: > >Derek writes: >> There are plenty of people, who are HAPPY to have Paul's RBL (I >> recently subscribed last night finally, thank you Paul!) around to >> lighten the workloads of our servers, and to lessen the mailspools >> of our customers. > > The simple point is you or any > other technician has no ability > or right to imagine themselves > representing or in any way inter- > fering with their customers mail. > You are acting as if you have any > right to intercept any private > e-mail. You have no such right. > In manipulating the free flow > of electronic mail you are > infringing with fundamentaly > human rigts and freedoms. > > Bob Allisat > > Free Community Network _ bob(a)fcn.net . http://fcn.net > http://fcn.net/allisat _ http://fcn.net/draft >

1 0

Cisco 7500, VIP2-40, PA-TX and PA-OC3
by Rubens Kuhl Jr. 20 Nov '98

20 Nov '98

Have anyone here pushed these configurations (Cisco 7500, VIP2-40 and PA-ATM-OC3 or PA-TX) into full line-speed (155 Mbps ATM, 100 Mbps Fast Ethernet) steady-state traffic? I was wondering if, even following the one PA per VIP guideline, these configurations will achieve a operational state or incur in packet loss. Traffic pattern is supposed to be same packets/s ratio on both sides, 100% bits/s ratio on one way, smaller packets on the other direction. Rubens Kuhl Jr.

1 0

Re: Black Hole Vixie/RBL (fwd)
by Bradley J. Passwaters 19 Nov '98

19 Nov '98

On Thu, 7 Feb 2036, Bob Allisat wrote: > The simple point is you or any > other technician has no ability > or right to imagine themselves > representing or in any way inter- > fering with their customers mail. That depends on the situation. If I own a toy company with an Internet connection and I don't want certain kinds of email to be sent or received I am within my rights to stop it. If I as joe user want to use a program to refuse/blackhole certain email I am within my rights. If I as Joe User want to use an ISP/other service to blackhole mail for me that is certainly my right. If you provide end user accounts/service (IE AOL,@HOME etc) I think if you define the terms of service up front to indicate that you reject certain types of traffic than there is not a problem. Users who sign up for that service can make their own decisions about what they want. > You are acting as if you have any > right to intercept any private > e-mail. You have no such right. > In manipulating the free flow > of electronic mail you are > infringing with fundamentaly > human rigts and freedoms. Actually to my mind its alot more like RBL is a boycott. Just as PETA or Americans against Nuclear Power or the NRA tell their membership how to bring pressure to bear via elections or refusing to buy certain products the RBL provides a list of sites/companies with which others who agree with RBL's stated objectives agree not to speak. I have no problem if companies or individuals or even communities (IE end users account providers) decide to undertake this action. There is an issue about wether bitpipe providers would be held to some kind of common carrier status if that is the case than certainly they would have to pass the traffic. If not its their equipment and they can do with it as they please. It should be noted that if the Internet continues to be an important part of our lives for communicating and for finding and purchasing goods and services I would expect to see other "alliances" with their own list of places/people that they don't want to see. For good or ill there will be information filtering technology in use. bjp(a)eng.umd.edu | Disclaimer: Can you be sure I even uunet!eng.umd.edu!istari | exist: Let alone represent anyone Brad Passwaters (Network Ronin) | or anything. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Here we are. Born to be kings. We're the princes of the universe. Here we belong, fighting to survive in a war with the darkest power. Network Manager's Theme Song (QUEEN)

1 0

The NANOG email list
by Craig Labovitz 19 Nov '98

19 Nov '98

Given the recent volume of email regarding spam, domain names, usenet, and other topics, this is just a reminder that the NANOG mail list is for discussion of ISP engineering and operational topics. Posts of a political or legal nature are more appropriate for other lists,including: inet-access-request(a)earth.com com-priv(a)lists.psi.com domain-policy(a)internic.net SPAM-L (LISTSERV(a)PEACH.EASE.LSOFT.COM) Please see the NANOG email list AUP for more information: http://www.nanog.org/aup.html The NANOG email list now averages more than 1200 messages a month (more than double the monthly volume in 1996). At this volume of email exchange, rational discussion of engineering/ISP operational topics becomes untenable. Please help us maintain the quality and content of the NANOG email discussions. Questions or suggestions about the NANOG email list, and NANOG conferences should be sent to nanog-support(a)merit.edu. Thanks. - Craig & The Merit NANOG staff ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------- Craig Labovitz labovit(a)merit.edu Merit Network, Inc. http://www.merit.edu/~labovit 4251 Plymouth Road, Suite C. (734) 764-0252 (office) Ann Arbor, MI 48105-2785 (734) 647-3185 (fax)

1 0