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RE: Fiber Converters, was RE: DS3 Coax..
by Bender, Andrew 18 Apr '03

18 Apr '03

Might be worth moving up to an honest-to-goodness ADM... there are very reasonable ones for point applications such as these, and they are made for continuous CO operation, unlike the wall-wart powered devices that seem to be so popular. A number of our customers have had some luck with these: http://www.oasystel.com/Products/Minimux155/Minimux155.htm Regards, Andrew Bender taqua.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Christopher J. Wolff [mailto:chris@bblabs.com] > Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2003 12:13 PM > To: nanog(a)merit.edu > Subject: Fiber Converters, was RE: DS3 Coax.. > > > > Andy, > > Thank you for bringing up fiber converters. I have a comment I was > trying to bring to the list that escaped this old man's memory. > > To the best of my recollection, I have not implemented a > fiber converter > that lasted more than say, 12 months. I've tried different > brands with > no luck. > > So, my question is, does a 'ruggedized' fiber/coax/X-baseT converter > exist? > > Regards, > Christopher J. Wolff, VP CIO > Broadband Laboratories, Inc. > http://www.bblabs.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-nanog(a)merit.edu [mailto:owner-nanog@merit.edu] On > Behalf Of > Andy Ellifson > Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2003 10:07 AM > To: Mike (meuon) Harrison; nanog(a)merit.edu > Subject: Re: DS3 Coax.. > > > 735 DS-3 cable has a specification max length of 225'. 734 DS-3 cable > has a specification max length of 450'. When you use this long cable > length, the mux that is providing the DS-3 needs to have the pads > removed (or provisioned) for a long cable run. > > Transition Networks (and others) make DS-3 fiber converters. They are > not cheap. This would be my preferred method as fiber > (especially OSP) > is much better suited for outdoor exposure and temperature changes. > > -Andy > > --- "Mike (meuon) Harrison" <meuon(a)highertech.net> wrote: > > > > > > I need to run a DS3 across our parking lot.. Seriously. > > > > What's the max length I can use coax for (I know, gotta use a GID), > > and what's the best brand/type of coax I can use? It'll be through > > innerduct.. Looking for some real world answers from people that do > > a LOT more of this than me.. (It might take 350-400 feet). > > > > > > > > > >

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Sorry, refresh my memory if possible.
by Drew Weaver 17 Apr '03

17 Apr '03

Does anyone know the URL of the AS search? I used to have it in my favorites. By AS search I mean you type in an AS number and it shows you all of the networks that are announcing/broadcasting it in the BGP table. Thanks, -Drew

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selective auto-aggregation
by bdragon＠gweep.net 17 Apr '03

17 Apr '03

I believe we're losing the aggregation war. More and more entities are deaggregating, and not announcing their largest aggregates which makes prefix-length filtering less effective. I'ld like to propose the concept of selective aggregation, whereby a router can be configured to aggregate based upon rules. For example, if an RIR allocation boundary for a particular /8 is /21, that routes which are longer than /21 could be aggregated to /21 rather than discarded. Obviously, this would only be effective facing one's transit, since aggregating a peer would violate most peering agreements. In transit-free networks, this functionality would not be useful. Similarly, the ability to auto-aggregate contiguous networks originated by the same AS, which could be applied even to routes with lengths shorter than an RIR boundary. This functionality could be useful facing ones peers. This type of thing would need to be selective, since permitted deaggregation (no-export tagged routes with meaningful MEDs) can still be useful between entities which agree to such things. If we can, I'ld like to avoid a holy war on whether deaggregating is someone's god given right, and stick to the premise that there are networks who will enforce aggregation policies, and want to do so in the most effective manner possible.

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RE: DS3 Coax..
by Mike (meuon) Harrison 17 Apr '03

17 Apr '03

> They might not be so nice after the next electrical storm or ground fault > rolls through the area and toasts something expensive... We are actually plugging into what they are calling a 'GID' Ground Interupter Device. btw: Several of the buildings here have HUGE bundles of coax between them.. all underground (like this will be)... no real problems (yet). Our wireless rack equipment rack (up on the third floor) is fed on isolated (floating) power, and has it's own VERY heavy grounding system.. I've watched lighting balls crawl the rack.. and everything kept working. Found Belden quad-shield outdoor (but not direct burial) RG-6 for $110/1000ft..

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Re: Independent space from ARIN (fwd)
by Lee Howard 17 Apr '03

17 Apr '03

Email change kept this off the list originally. . . ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 16:02:13 -0400 (EDT) From: lhoward(a)uu.net To: Stephen Sprunk <stephen(a)sprunk.org> Cc: Bill Woodcock <woody(a)pch.net>, North American Noise and Off-topic Gripes <nanog(a)merit.edu> Subject: Re: Independent space from ARIN ObDisclosure: I'm the Treasurer for ARIN. It's my job to make sure ARIN has enough money. Common wisdom has it that IPv6 will render the RIRs unnecessary, because no one will ever come back for a second request. Registration Services Group is certainly the most visible department in terms of most peoples' day-to-day interaction with ARIN. But even if we get to a certain saturation threshhold where North America only requires one person to handle allocations, other services will still be required. For instance, we will still need the Engineering group if we expect to delegate reverse zones IP6.ARPA and provide WHOIS. Possibly more, if the public decides you want ARIN to provide CA services related to sBGP and DNSSEC proposals (as presented at the last two meetings). Maybe v6 obsoletes those requirements, I don't know. How much service Member Services has to provide is up to the Members, of course, but so far the idea of open policy development has seemed to require open policy meetings. Education should continue to be a part of ARIN's charter, especially where other organizations (e.g., governments) act with insufficient understanding. In the science-fiction future of inexhaustible addresses, somebody has to pay for those services above, which means there has to be a business department to handle billing. By the time you have all those departments, you're going to need an administrative group to make sure ARIN can actually operate. Interestingly, an ARIN that never handles a second request for address space looks a lot like the ARIN of today. We're still trying to work out the fee structure for IPv6, by the way, and I'm always soliciting suggestions. At the moment, the current system (annual renewals for four categories of space) is the best suggestion. In direct response to your comment, I should say: - The RIRs don't technically lease addresses, at least not in the legal sense. - Addresses are not granted permanently because they aren't owned. The RIRs coordinate to ensure global uniqueness, not to sell or lease. - There's always work to do, even if additional allocations is only part. ppml(a)arin.net would be a good place to debate the future of ARIN services. Lee On Mon, 14 Apr 2003, Stephen Sprunk wrote: > Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 14:09:05 -0500 > From: Stephen Sprunk <stephen(a)sprunk.org> > To: Bill Woodcock <woody(a)pch.net> > Cc: North American Noise and Off-topic Gripes <nanog(a)merit.edu> > Subject: Re: Independent space from ARIN > > > Thus spake "Bill Woodcock" <woody(a)pch.net> > > When the day arrives when people don't want new IPv4 addresses, or > > there aren't any to be had, and everybody who needs v6 addresses has > > them, how is the registry going to be paid for? > > That's why RIRs lease addresses to you, not sell them -- they get to keep > collecting money forever even if they do no additional work. > > S > > Stephen Sprunk "God does not play dice." --Albert Einstein > CCIE #3723 "God is an inveterate gambler, and He throws the > K5SSS dice at every possible opportunity." --Stephen Hawking >

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Re: Independent space from ARIN
by Lee Howard 17 Apr '03

17 Apr '03

My email address changed, so this didn't make it to the list yesterday. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 12:38:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Lee Howard <lee.howard(a)mci.com> To: E.B. Dreger <eddy+public+spam(a)noc.everquick.net> Cc: nanog(a)merit.edu Subject: Re: Independent space from ARIN ObDisclosure: I'm the Treasurer for ARIN. We audit our financials every year. Audits are done by a reputable firm that specializes in not-for-profit organizations, and who provides no other services to us. Last year's audit report is available on ARIN's web page. This year's audit is in the final stages; then it goes to the Finance Committee, then the Board of Trustees, then it gets posted to the web site. I also present the audit report at the first Members' Meeting following the acceptance of the report by the Board. Fringe benefits include tuition assistance and a vacation/sick pool, plus normal insurance, 401(k), etc. They are reasonably generous, but not unreasonably generous. ICANN Support is based on an agreement between the RIRs and ICANN. I note that in the process of ICANN Evolution and Reform, the Boards of the RIRs have been working with ICANN, and it's conceivable that this relationship may ultimately change. Information available on the web page of your friendly neighborhood RIR, the ASO, or ICANN. "Other Internet support" includes support for the RADB and the RFC Editor. We felt that supporting those activities was consistent with the mission of ARIN. If the membership disagrees, you can say so to the Board of Trustees, whose names and email addresses are on ARIN's web site, or you can elect new Trustees. ARIN's governance, including expenditures, is set up to provide oversight without disabling its effectiveness. It is assumed that ten thousand ASN holders (for instance) can't possibly all keep themselves well-informed on ARIN's day-to-day operations, nor should they have to. That's why we have a Chief Executive Officer, in whom I have great confidence, and an elected Board of Trustees. If you are dissatisfied with your representation, you can voice your dissatisfaction or you can vote (if you're a member). Speaking only for myself, I note that you have expressed dissatisfaction with ARIN's expenditures, and the Treasurer has personally responded. ARIN Members who want more details on ARIN's finances can email me personally or ask questions at the Members' Meeting. The next one is in the Fall in Chicago, being held jointly with NANOG. Please let me know what else I can do to make sure ARIN is operated in an open and responsible manner consistent with the public interest. Lee Howard Treasurer and Member of Board of Trustees ARIN On Tue, 15 Apr 2003, E.B. Dreger wrote: > Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 15:24:41 +0000 (GMT) > From: E.B. Dreger <eddy+public+spam(a)noc.everquick.net> > To: nanog(a)merit.edu > Subject: Re: Independent space from ARIN > > > SJW> Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 13:43:39 +0100 (BST) > SJW> From: Stephen J. Wilcox > > > SJW> Thats not _that_ large a turnover, $6m, and $2.3m for > SJW> salaries isnt that big. Altho I wonder what the $1m of > SJW> fringe benefits are! > > SJW> Not for profit simply means the company keeps hold of any > SJW> profits it makes and reinvests/reduces fees as a result. It > SJW> doesnt stop you paying senior staff large salaries tho as > SJW> thats wages overhead not profit... > > How true... many not-for-profit and non-profit organizations have > some very cherry financials, and are sitting much prettier than > many for-profit entities. > > I have an idea: > > Perhaps ARIN needs to explain each dollar in/out with the same > amount of detail and scrutiny involved with IP allocations. All > money spent needs to be extremely well documented; summaries are > insufficient. Show actual receipts, reports explaining the > necessity of the expenditures, and proof that the expenditures > were the most efficient choices. > > It seems many are curious about fringe benefits. That makes as > good of a starting point as any. "ICANN support" and "other > Internet support" also look interesting. > > Because ARIN is to serve the Internet community, perhaps it > should be controlled by such, with Internet-community reps voting > on each ARIN expenditure. One representative per ASN? Per > netblock? Per IP address would be the worst approach, with those > holding unjustified /8 blocks getting unfair voting clout. > > Domain registration service improved when a few competitors came > to town. That also is a { uniqueness & authority delegation } > service. Parallels? I think so... > > > Eddy > -- > Brotsman & Dreger, Inc. - EverQuick Internet Division > Bandwidth, consulting, e-commerce, hosting, and network building > Phone: +1 (785) 865-5885 Lawrence and [inter]national > Phone: +1 (316) 794-8922 Wichita > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 11:23:58 +0000 (GMT) > From: A Trap <blacklist(a)brics.com> > To: blacklist(a)brics.com > Subject: Please ignore this portion of my mail signature. > > These last few lines are a trap for address-harvesting spambots. > Do NOT send mail to <blacklist(a)brics.com>, or you are likely to > be blocked. >

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RE: FW: DNS Servers
by Ray Burkholder 17 Apr '03

17 Apr '03

To make a long story short, we suffered an inadvertent MS W2K AD DNS DoS. [Microsoft Windows 2000 Active Directory Domain Name Service Denial of Service] The company misconfigured their stuff and sent all their lookups our way with milliseconds between requests. We ended up blocking their address, and things returned to normal. Ray Burkholder > -----Original Message----- > From: Dan Streufert [mailto:danstreufert@cox.net] > Sent: April 17, 2003 12:13 > To: Ray Burkholder > Cc: tgraf(a)icss.com > Subject: Re: FW: DNS Servers > > > Ray, > > What domain are you talking about? Can you describe in more > detail the problems you are seeing? Who hosts your domain name? > > Thanks, > > Dan > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Ray Burkholder [mailto:ray@oneunified.net] > > Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2003 7:25 PM > > To: Todd Graf > > Subject: DNS Servers > > > > > > Is there anybody out there who is seeing that their DNS servers are > > going in and out of operation? We have 5 DNS servers, the > service, not > > the server, is available/not-available/available. Am I > imagining things > > or is something funky happening? > > > > Ray Burkholder > > > >

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RE: DS3 Coax..
by Mike (meuon) Harrison 17 Apr '03

17 Apr '03

Joel: > you could run media converters for it (www.transition.com is what I use). Thank you for all the WONDERFUL feedback. Just to answer some questions.. for those that are curious. - Why DS3/Coax? Because room in this POP (a ROHN Building) is really really tight, and they said if we brought it in Coax, and plugged almost directly in we could do it (semi-cheap, fast and easy). - We'll run 2 pair of coax, and 4/6 pair of fiber, but currently there is no room or approval to properly terminate fiber.. (a nice shelf, etc..) that may change on actual install.. using some small stand alone media converters (like the transitions) may allow us to do it. - Why do it? Because our property is contiguous with the Sprint POP next door.. and I need to say Mega-Kudos to Sprint for being willing to let a small ISP like us do this for a DS3 upstream and being decent to work with so far..

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Re: DS3 Coax..
by Dave Israel 17 Apr '03

17 Apr '03

Just out of curiosity: Why does it have to be DS3? Could another circuit type that can do at least 45 megs and reach at least 400 feet work? On 4/17/2003 at 11:36:34 -0400, Mike (meuon) Harrison said: > > > I need to run a DS3 across our parking lot.. Seriously. > > What's the max length I can use coax for (I know, gotta use a GID), > and what's the best brand/type of coax I can use? It'll be through > innerduct.. Looking for some real world answers from people that do > a LOT more of this than me.. (It might take 350-400 feet). > > >

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RE: DS3 Coax..
by Ejay Hire 17 Apr '03

17 Apr '03

I've had at around ~450 feet, but you have to change the LBO/Cable length in the CSU. -----Original Message----- From: Robert E. Seastrom [mailto:rs@seastrom.com] Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2003 10:51 AM To: Mike (meuon) Harrison Cc: nanog(a)merit.edu Subject: Re: DS3 Coax.. "Mike (meuon) Harrison" <meuon(a)highertech.net> writes: > I need to run a DS3 across our parking lot.. Seriously. > > What's the max length I can use coax for (I know, gotta use a GID), > and what's the best brand/type of coax I can use? It'll be through > innerduct.. Looking for some real world answers from people that do > a LOT more of this than me.. (It might take 350-400 feet). The textbook limit is 450' for 735 cable. I've had poor luck pushing the limit, and don't know offhand if using some other flavor of 75 ohm cable buys you anything. Were I in your position, I'd have glass pulled and use a coax to fiber media converter such as http://www6.adc.com/ecom/hier?NODE=OND68947, http://www.versitron.com/DS3T3.html, or http://www.rad-direct.com/DATASHEET/FOM-T3.pdf (the latter of which I've used personally) on each end. No, it's not the cheap way to do it, but it eliminates ground loops and other such nastiness that can ruin your whole day. ---Rob

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