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RE: [Re: This may be stupid but.. ]
by Wesley Vaux 11 Nov '03

11 Nov '03

I once was in a class sitting beside a CCIE that asked me what the command syntax was. I have no faith in the certified. -----Original Message----- From: Matt Levine [mailto:matt-keyword-nanog.aedae7@deliver3.com] Sent: Monday, November 10, 2003 2:50 PM To: Daniel Roesen Cc: Nanog List (E-mail) Subject: Re: [Re: This may be stupid but.. ] On Nov 10, 2003, at 2:38 PM, Daniel Roesen wrote: > > On Mon, Nov 10, 2003 at 12:51:55PM -0500, Fisher, Shawn wrote: >> I agree certifications are overated at best. >> >> Give me someone with the right attitude and I'll teach him anything. >> >> Showing the ability to get things done is the greatest skill imo. > > I once read the following and saved it away... > > "Hire and promote first on the basis of integrity; second, motivation; > third, capacity; fourth, understanding; fifth, knowledge; and last and > least, experience. Without integrity, motivation is dangerous; without > motivation, capacity is impotent; without capacity, understanding is > limited; without understanding, knowledge is meaningless; without > knowledge, experience is blind. Experience is easy to provide and > quickly put to good use by people with all the other qualities." > > Have no clue who's the origin. So what you're saying is you want cisco to certify people's integrity? :) > > > Best regards, > Daniel > > -- Matt Levine <matt(a)deliver3.com> "The Trouble with doing anything right the first time is that nobody appreciates how difficult it was." -BIX

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paging Motorola - please evacuate your ninja bots from route-views.oregon-ix.net
by Kai Schlichting 10 Nov '03

10 Nov '03

Paging Motorola. Please leave some system resources for the rest of us and LOG OFF when you're done. Thank you. bye,Kai sonet:~$ date Mon Nov 10 13:56:46 EST 2003 sonet:~$ telnet route-views.oregon-ix.net [....] route-views.oregon-ix.net>who Line User Host(s) Idle Location 2 vty 0 idle 1w3d gate01.mot.com 3 vty 1 idle 1w3d gate02.mot.com 4 vty 2 idle 1w3d 203.135.29.11 5 vty 3 idle 1w2d www.sohoskyway.net 6 vty 4 idle 1w3d mippet.ci.com.au 7 vty 5 idle 1w2d a65-124-16-8.svc.towardex.com 8 vty 6 idle 1w2d gate01.mot.com 9 vty 7 idle 1w2d gate02.mot.com 10 vty 8 idle 1w3d 216.140.58.174 11 vty 9 idle 1w3d host1.tla.com 12 vty 10 idle 1w3d gate01.mot.com 13 vty 11 idle 1w2d gate02.mot.com 14 vty 12 idle 1w3d gate01.mot.com 15 vty 13 idle 1w2d gate01.mot.com 16 vty 14 idle 2d19h gate02.mot.com 17 vty 15 idle 1w1d gate02.mot.com 18 vty 16 idle 1w1d gate01.mot.com 19 vty 17 idle 1w1d gate02.mot.com 20 vty 18 idle 1w1d gate01.mot.com 21 vty 19 idle 1w0d gate02.mot.com 22 vty 20 idle 1w0d gate02.mot.com 23 vty 21 idle 4d10h 203.130.226.203 24 vty 22 idle 5d23h gate02.mot.com 25 vty 23 idle 1w0d Blackberry.rt.ru 26 vty 24 idle 1w0d gate01.mot.com 27 vty 25 idle 1w0d gate02.mot.com 28 vty 26 idle 1w0d gate02.mot.com 29 vty 27 idle 1w0d gate01.mot.com 30 vty 28 idle 6d12h gate01.mot.com 31 vty 29 idle 3d18h gate02.mot.com 32 vty 30 idle 3d20h office.gill.force.vcn.com 33 vty 31 idle 4d16h gate02.mot.com 34 vty 32 idle 6d17h gate02.mot.com 35 vty 33 idle 2d13h gate02.mot.com 36 vty 34 idle 5d13h 203.130.226.203 37 vty 35 idle 4d22h gate01.mot.com 38 vty 36 idle 2d03h phlox.cs.wisc.edu 39 vty 37 idle 4d23h a207-99-126-144.svc.towardex.com 40 vty 38 idle 3d15h gate01.mot.com 41 vty 39 idle 3d14h gate02.mot.com 42 vty 40 idle 3d06h gate02.mot.com 43 vty 41 idle 4d05h gate02.mot.com 44 vty 42 idle 3d17h mail-out.hk.reach.com 45 vty 43 idle 3d12h gate02.mot.com 46 vty 44 idle 2d15h gate02.mot.com * 47 vty 45 idle 00:00:00 sonet.conti.nu 48 vty 46 idle 2d14h gate02.mot.com 49 vty 47 idle 2d22h gate02.mot.com 50 vty 48 idle 1d07h gate02.mot.com 51 vty 49 idle 2d01h gate02.mot.com 52 vty 50 idle 2d09h gate02.mot.com 53 vty 51 idle 00:00:14 ip-157-14.newcomamericas.net 54 vty 52 idle 00:04:10 office.gill.force.vcn.com 55 vty 53 idle 11:10:41 gate02.mot.com 56 vty 54 idle 00:00:34 gateway.panamsat.com 57 vty 55 idle 16:11:06 gate01.mot.com 58 vty 56 idle 01:40:51 johnnypc.csu.net 61 vty 59 idle 16:17:18 hq1.colosseum.com 62 vty 60 idle 2d00h gate02.mot.com 65 vty 63 idle 09:30:35 CPE-144-136-76-220.nsw.bigpond.net.au 69 vty 67 idle 00:04:49 turing.servers.luna.net 70 vty 68 idle 00:04:52 turing.servers.luna.net 71 vty 69 idle 00:04:47 turing.servers.luna.net 72 vty 70 idle 00:04:42 turing.servers.luna.net 73 vty 71 idle 00:04:45 turing.servers.luna.net 74 vty 72 idle 00:04:43 turing.servers.luna.net 76 vty 74 idle 00:04:41 turing.servers.luna.net Interface User Mode Idle Peer Address

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Re: This may be stupid but..
by Michael.Dillon＠radianz.com 10 Nov '03

10 Nov '03

> DO NOT SEND YOUR RESUME at this point of the application process. If > you do send your resume, we will assume you did not bother to > carefully read this job posting, and we will not consider your > application. > To begin taking the tests, please send your public SSH key to > jobs(a)telerama.com along with your email contact information. I like these two points. Essentially, they are ways of weeding out the large number of timewasters who just can't do the job. Who wants to open up their network infrastructure to someone who can't read and understand plain English? And how many truly experienced network engineers would not be able to generate an SSH public key if they don't already have one? But this type of technique can also be used with recruiters. It just means that you have to train them in how to identify candidates that you like. In past lives at other companies I've done this. For instance, I told the recruiters that MS certification was a bad thing and that I the only Cisco cert that was remotely interesting was CCIE. I also told them that at least half the resumes they submitted should have no certs at all. I explained the kind of UNIX experience that was good to have, i.e. using Linux or BSD at home. I also told them that I wouldn't see any candidates until I had interviewed them over the phone. This let me quickly weed out the evasive ones who were probably stretching the truth on their resumes. When I interview, I start out by asking one or two key questions that help me quickly get to the truth. For instance at one company, when I has hiring NOC folks, I started by asking them to explain traceroute to me. The answer that I wanted was one which showed that they had a detailed understanding of what was going on at the protocol level as the packets flowed through the network because that view of the network is needed to effectively troubleshoot problems. It did lead to one awkward situation with a 16 year-old who immediately started talking about ICMP echos with varying TTL and routers sending back ICMP echo-replies. I wanted to end the interview and hire him on the spot but it seemed unfair to give this young guy the idea that job interviews are that short. I believe that it is possible to train recruiters to ask one or two questions like this by giving them a few samples of the level of detail that you are looking for. For example I could have told a recruiter that the answer should mention TTL and echo-reply. If you shop for a recruiter who is willing to learn about your needs and properly select candidates according to *YOUR* requirements I think that recruiters can be much better than hiring directly. --Michael Dillon

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RE: [Re: This may be stupid but.. ]
by Fisher, Shawn 10 Nov '03

10 Nov '03

I agree certifications are overated at best. Give me someone with the right attitude and I'll teach him anything. Showing the ability to get things done is the greatest skill imo. -----Original Message----- From: Timothy R. McKee [mailto:tim@baseworx.net] Sent: Monday, November 10, 2003 11:48 AM To: joshua sahala Cc: Peter Galbavy; Richard Irving; Eric Brunner-Williams in Portland Maine; Vadim Antonov; John Brown (CV); Nanog List (E-mail) Subject: Re: [Re: This may be stupid but.. ] On Mon, 2003-11-10 at 11:36, joshua sahala wrote: > "Peter Galbavy" <peter.galbavy(a)knowtion.net> wrote: > > > Acronyms mean sh*t. When involved in any hiring process, I actively > > avoid CCIE/MSCE/etc. laden resumes. Mentioning once, fine. Using them > > like religious phrases is an indictation of, well, stupidity. > > certifications are often necessary to open the door - granted if you > were architecting internetworks when many of today's certified > 'engineers' were still in grade school, then no, certifications are > probably not needed. I consider myself one of the 'old guys' and all the experience in the world doesn't mean &%*$&%*$ to a recruiter OR a company hiring manager if you don't have the magic initials they've heard about behind your name. I was always too busy doing my 'real job' making the customers happy so I never spent time getting 'useless' certifications or developing networking relationships with other professionals for later use. Those of you with jobs, be very careful not to be lured into that trap. You've got to think of your future first and foremost. No one else will. Tim McKee > > > > i'm recruiter-proof. i'm not sure i'd want anyone who wasn't. > > > > Aye. I have *never* used my CV/Resume in getting a job. I still have > > one, but it's very out of date. > > never is a long time > > perhaps it is just the fact that i am 'new' to the field, but my resume > has gotten me all but one job, and my resume indirectly got me that one. > > my slightly bitter $0.02 > > /joshua > > > > > Peter > > > > > > > > "Walk with me through the Universe, > And along the way see how all of us are Connected. > Feast the eyes of your Soul, > On the Love that abounds. > In all places at once, seemingly endless, > Like your own existence." > - Stephen Hawking - -- Timothy R. McKee <tim(a)baseworx.net>

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Re: This may be stupid but..
by John Neiberger 10 Nov '03

10 Nov '03

>>>> <Valdis.Kletnieks(a)vt.edu> 11/10/03 12:50:47 PM >>> >On Mon, 10 Nov 2003 20:27:46 +0100, Daniel Roesen <dr(a)cluenet.de> said: >> >> On Mon, Nov 10, 2003 at 11:03:15AM +0000, Michael.Dillon(a)radianz.com wrote: >> > When I interview, I start out by asking one or two key questions that >> > help me quickly get to the truth. For instance at one company, when I >> > has hiring NOC folks, I started by asking them to explain traceroute >> > to me. >> >> "Which one? ICMP, UDP or TCP traceroute (to name the usual ones)?" > >What kind, African, or European? (Woe unto the interviewer who doesn't know. ;) Hmm...I think it would be more informative to know if the traceroute were laden or unladen. Everyone knows that unladen traceroutes display faster response times. -- --

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Email security issues
by Adi Linden 10 Nov '03

10 Nov '03

Hi, Is there a place to discuss and find solutions for email related security issues? I've just receives a nice email from my banker (ok, it claims to be from my banker) asking me to visit my banks website and confirm my email address. This email is by far the most convincing piece of fraud I received to date so far. The URL loads up the bank page plus a popup provoding a login. Looking at the source of the popup it revels that it is positively not a legit source and most likely used to harvest peoples access information. Thoughts? Adi

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.iq info update requests
by Eric Brunner-Williams in Portland Maine 10 Nov '03

10 Nov '03

Howdy folks, A .eu researcher asked about my .iq data, so I've put that data back up. I haven't spent any time keeping it current, or expanding it, but I will if people actually send me data. Some of you have, or have expressed an interest in doing something of marginal or greater utility, or are doing something real for a similar eventual operator. Some of you will recall some boneheaded proposal to snag the ccTLD under a theory of "doing good", and selling off witty names like "lacking.iq", with some of the proceeds going to the Home for Little Lost NOCs. That's not my idea. I'd like ICANN to get real or go home on the issue of seizure-by-operator-arrest of a ccTLD, and I'd like the eventual academic operator of the .iq ccTLD to have data, to use or ignore, as they see fit, which usefully functions as-is, for some definition of "useful". So, data, data, data. Please. Forward where you think interest or data exists. Eric

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OT: SAT link India to USA
by Brennan_Murphy＠NAI.com 10 Nov '03

10 Nov '03

Need a recommendation for Satellite link connecting Bangalore and sites in the U.S. Need HW vendor and managed provider recommendations. Contact me off-list. Thanks, BM

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Re: [Re: Openwave Opinions]
by joshua sahala 10 Nov '03

10 Nov '03

Suresh Ramasubramanian <suresh(a)outblaze.com> wrote: > > It is not just financial resources - it is also a factor of time to > build a filter / set of filters from scratch (even with spamassasin + > bogofilter you need to train it extensively, and tweak its rulesets to > suit your mail flow). there are some online spam archives that you can download and feed, and while it may take you a little time to write a script to push the archives at your spam filter (and if you push the archive at the filter multiple times, it may learn faster), you will have written a portable tool that you can use again and again, and will have tailored your email filters the way you want, rather than the way someone else wanted. teaching your users to foward spam to spam(a)yourdomain.com will also speed that process > Sometimes outsourcing corporate / isp mail handling to a provider like > us, criticalpath, postini etc might be a good way to go. i am no longer associated with them, but usa.net has some good stuff too, and while i would, for financial reasons, prefer to roll my own, outsourcing can be an effective way to manage your email, but it comes down to a cost/benefit analysis. > Or you might elect to get a managed antispam solution that plugs into > your mta (kind of like brightmail or spamsquelcher.org) brightmail is quite good > The unix way - one tool per job. Build a mail system out of components > - it is often the best way to go. i agree - like i said above, you can tailor it to suit your needs. one size does not necessarily fit all my $0.02 /joshua > srs > > -- > srs (postmaster|suresh)(a)outblaze.com // gpg : EDEDEFB9 > manager, outblaze.com security and antispam operations > "Walk with me through the Universe, And along the way see how all of us are Connected. Feast the eyes of your Soul, On the Love that abounds. In all places at once, seemingly endless, Like your own existence." - Stephen Hawking -

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Ex PSI legacy .us domains inactive
by Christopher X. Candreva 10 Nov '03

10 Nov '03

Over the weekend a customer of mine had his legacy .us domain under .rye.ny.us stop working, as it is no longer in the root servers. After doing some checking, a whois on rye.ny.us shows it as inactive. The customer found this list of .us delegations: http://www.neustar.us/delegated_managers/delegated_subdomains.txt A random check shows every domain listed as being with psi.net as inactive. I'm about to write a little script to check all the psi domains in that list. This is basicly a heads-up if anyone else has a domain that might be in the same catagory, or if someone from Neustar is listening, the customer's attempts to contact them so far haven't been fruitfull. The PSI deleted domains are mostly NY cities. ========================================================== Chris Candreva -- chris(a)westnet.com -- (914) 967-7816 WestNet Internet Services of Westchester http://www.westnet.com/

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