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RE: OK...between 12:00 and 12:10 who
by Burton, Chris 29 Jan '04

29 Jan '04

We have multiple carriers in multiple locations and have not noticed anything. Chris Burton Network Engineer Walt Disney Internet Group: Network Services The information contained in this e-mail message is confidential, intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If the reader of this e-mail is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible to deliver it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any review, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please contact Walt Disney Internet Group at 206-664-4000. -----Original Message----- From: Shazad [mailto:shazad@eservers.biz] Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 11:23 AM To: nanog(a)merit.edu Subject: RE: OK...between 12:00 and 12:10 who Sorry, I tripped over the power cables ;) On a serious note, I didn't notice anything.. Anyone else? Regards, --------------------------- Shazad, COO, CO-FOUNDER COREIX Limited. eServers.biz ________________________________ From: owner-nanog(a)merit.edu [mailto:owner-nanog@merit.edu] On Behalf Of Wesley Vaux Sent: 29 January 2004 19:13 To: nanog(a)merit.edu Subject: OK...between 12:00 and 12:10 who Which one of you guys took down the world? We have separate carriers for internet, ATM, and Phone and between this time everything blipped at the same time. Anyone else have this type of issue?

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RE: MS is vulnerable
by Susan Harris 29 Jan '04

29 Jan '04

Folks, let's move the Mac/PC discussion to more suitable lists. (I can't name 'em, but I'm sure they're out there.) Thanks.

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RE: OK...between 12:00 and 12:10 who
by Shazad 29 Jan '04

29 Jan '04

Sorry, I tripped over the power cables ;) On a serious note, I didn't notice anything.. Anyone else? Regards, --------------------------- Shazad, COO, CO-FOUNDER COREIX Limited. eServers.biz ________________________________ From: owner-nanog(a)merit.edu [mailto:owner-nanog@merit.edu] On Behalf Of Wesley Vaux Sent: 29 January 2004 19:13 To: nanog(a)merit.edu Subject: OK...between 12:00 and 12:10 who Which one of you guys took down the world? We have separate carriers for internet, ATM, and Phone and between this time everything blipped at the same time. Anyone else have this type of issue?

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RE: MS is vulnerable
by Michel Py 29 Jan '04

29 Jan '04

> Jason Lixfeld wrote: > When we got to where we were going, my mom was complaining > that her digital camera flash was full and she didn't have > another one. I told her that I could download the pictures > to my powerbook and email them to her later. As I was > connecting the camera, she asked "Well, don't you need > to download and install the softw...." she stopped > mid-sentence as the Mac found the PowerShot, opened > iphoto and proceeded to download the pictures -- no > software needed. She looked Jealous. If the Powershot was designed as a Mac-only camera, it's Canon's stupidity. I never used one, but when I plug my Sony cybershot to any PC it comes up right away without any software. Since Macs are available in stores, how do you explain that they don't get the lion's share of the market if they're so superior to the PeeCee as you claim? I have had an Apple computer for 25 years (1979 that is, and I still have my II plus). In the early eighties Apple dominated the personal computer market (yes there were TRS-80s and Commodore 64s, but Apple was the leader). Then they released the Apple ///, then the Lisa, then the Mac. At the same time, IBM released the PC, which was an overpriced piece of crud. Guess what: the Wintel platform became standard, over the established leader (Apple). Because IBM and Microsoft managed to produced what the market wanted to buy, instead of what a few gurus in an ivory tower in Cupertino thought what the ultimate PC would be. > When the last big MS virus/worm caused it's major shitstorm, > my mom asked me if I ever get infected with viruses. I said > no, I run a Mac. They are immune to these viruses. Complete BS. There are Mac viruses allright, and the reason these worms target the Windows platform is simply because there are much more of them and therefore an Outlook worm is much more likely to succeed than a Mac worm. If Apple is still around with 3% of the market, it's because Bill Gates bailed them out as he wanted to keep a competitor alive when they were in the feds cross-hairs because of that monopoly thing. I'll tell you what: if you know how to make the Mac the dominant platform, go see Steve Jobs and ask for 100 million bucks in cash in exchange for the tip. And if you're not happy with Windows, you're free to write a competitive product to replace it. That's what Microsoft did to Apple 20 years ago, BTW. It's called market economy. Michel.

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RE: MS is vulnerable
by Michel Py 29 Jan '04

29 Jan '04

> Martin Hepworth wrote: > Got a colleague who swapped hi twin 1GHZ PC for a 17" > powerbook to do his video editing side business. Guess > wot - the powerbook works much much better than his > w2k based system!! Hmmm maybe you can show me where the Macintosh version for Adobe Premiere Pro is? (Adobe sales pitch: Adobe Premiere Pro software delivers real-time editing tools for professional video production). Michel.

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RE: [Nanog] RE: MS is vulnerable
by Vivien M. 29 Jan '04

29 Jan '04

> -----Original Message----- > From: Remko Lodder [mailto:remko@elvandar.org] > Sent: January 29, 2004 12:43 PM > To: Vivien M.; 'Jason Lixfeld' > Cc: doug(a)nanog.con.com; nanog(a)merit.edu > Subject: RE: [Nanog] RE: MS is vulnerable > > > It's better to educate your mum how she keeps windows secure. > It can be done, there are a lot of Windows machine in the > wild out there that are actually almost up to date, (everyone > should be that far), I've managed to educate my dad on the critical updates. He's better at it than me, actually - when the little icon shows up in the taskbar, he knows that he's supposed to click on it and do what it tells him to do. Then again, my dad also takes his car to the dealer the day after he gets a recall letter, so perhaps he's just more responsible than many... My mom's, though, tends to have the little icon staying in the tray, unless I'm visiting... but I'm still working on educating her :) Much easier to convince her to click that icon than to make her hand over her American Express for a shiny new iBook, anyways. > let her run antivirus software, update it frequently, learn > her how to handle unknown email, how to handle weird > attachments, delete mails who look suspicious, install a > decent windows firewall that allows you to select what should > be openend and what should be closed (windows own firewall > might be in help her) Antivirus software, these days, updates itself. If you run the home/SOHO Norton line, I believe that was added in the 2002 version - the 2001 reminded you to run LiveUpdate, but you actually had to go through the wizards and stuff each time. No more, now it updates itself and just pops up a little thingy saying it did so. The big problem with "weird attachments" is that they seem to come from a trusted sender. The usual excuse is "but Joe wouldn't send me a virus", and it's very hard to make people understand that some computer out there, not even necessarily Joe's, is sending a virus in Joe's name without Joe knowing about it. At least these days, viruses aren't MS Word documents, which helps... No need for firewalls - I continue to maintain a FreeBSD firewall system at my parents' house, and I trust it a lot more than I'd trust a personal firewall. I'm weary about personal firewalls, though, because sometimes their interface causes problems (and a _properly_ locked down box shouldn't need one): eg, one relative who somehow got Norton's firewall to block outbound IE. Not easy to fix over the phone... Vivien -- Vivien M. vivienm(a)dyndns.org Assistant System Administrator Dynamic Network Services, Inc. http://www.dyndns.org/

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RE: MS is vulnerable
by Gregory Hicks 29 Jan '04

29 Jan '04

(Setting Reply-to: nanog-offtopic(a)lists.blank.org ....) > From: "Matthew Kaufman" <matthew(a)eeph.com> > Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 09:31:58 -0800 > > > This MS v Unix debate is a very interesting discussion. > > To some of you. To others of us, it is a long-dead horse. > > > However, I'd like to take a moment to inject my observations. > > I'd like the NANOG list to be restricted to Network Operations > issues, or at the very least, Network Operations plus the politics and > ranting thereof. And this is why we have the nanog offtopic list at nanog-offtopic(a)lists.blank.org >From a previous message In March 2003: > This seems like an apropos point to remind people of the existance of > nanog-offtopic(a)lists.blank.org. All of the friendly bickering with > the people you know and love and/or loathe; 100% less of the > annoying-of-Susan and people-looking-for-operational-content. > > To subscribe, drop a line to nanog-offtopic-subscribe(a)lists.blank.org. Regards, Gregory Hicks ------------------------------------------------------------------- Gregory Hicks | Principal Systems Engineer Cadence Design Systems | Direct: 408.576.3609 555 River Oaks Pkwy M/S 6B1 | Fax: 408.894.3400 San Jose, CA 95134 | Internet: ghicks(a)cadence.com "The trouble with doing anything right the first time is that nobody appreciates how difficult it was." When a team of dedicated individuals makes a commitment to act as one... the sky's the limit. Just because "We've always done it that way" is not necessarily a good reason to continue to do so... Grace Hopper, Rear Admiral, United States Navy

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Re: MS is vulnerable
by Michael.Dillon＠radianz.com 29 Jan '04

29 Jan '04

>Microsoft software is inherently less safe than Linux/*BSD software. >This is because Microsoft has favored usability over security. >This is because the market has responded better to that tradeoff. >This is because your mom doesn't want to have to hire a technical >consultant to manage her IT infrastructure when all she wants to do is get >email pictures of her grandkids. Let me see, have I got this right? Apple software is inherently less safe than Linux/*BSD software. This is because Apple has favored usability over security. This is because the market has responded better to that tradeoff. This is because your mom doesn't want to have to hire a technical consultant to manage her IT infrastructure when all she wants to do is get email pictures of her grandkids. Hmmm... The last three statements make perfect sense but that first one just doesn't seem right. Could it be that ease-of-use has nothing whatsoever to do with security? --Michael Dillon

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Control. (was Re: MS is vulnerable)
by Jamie Reid 29 Jan '04

29 Jan '04

While acknowledging that I am falling for a troll does not excuse the act itself, I would like to float an idea I think is useful. If you look at security as control, then you can measure it as the ratio of controls to features. That is, for N in/egress points there are X active policy enforcement gateways. Similarly, for all functions in a peice of software, there are X configurable controls of their inputs and outputs and en/disabled-state. The reason we have "security" vulnerabilities is that we are building (or evolving) systems that lack adequate controls relative to the sheer volume of their features. While access to source-code does not guarantee that the user will exercise their control over the software, it does provide more granular control than say, a config file, or a clickity-click-configurator. The idea behind commercial software is that it is a service in which responsibility for control is maintained by the vendor, with a few options available to the user to customize. Open source provides total control to the user, limited only by their skills or access to information. Now, whether this control I am talking about is applicable to "security" as we understand it, I will leave that to the reader, but I would speculate that this simile could allow for something like cybernetics to be applied to evaluating the security of complex systems, and possibly offer more practical solutions than the political economy of security that characterizes alot of research in the field. Best, -j -- Jamie.Reid, CISSP, jamie.reid(a)mbs.gov.on.ca Senior Security Specialist, Information Protection Centre Corporate Security, MBS 416 327 2324 >>> <doug(a)nanog.con.com> 01/29/04 09:26am >>> Microsoft software is inherently less safe than Linux/*BSD software. This is because Microsoft has favored usability over security. This is because the market has responded better to that tradeoff. This is because your mom doesn't want to have to hire a technical consultant to manage her IT infrastructure when all she wants to do is get email pictures of her grandkids. doug

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Subject: Re: MS is vulnerable
by J. Oquendo 29 Jan '04

29 Jan '04

>Microsoft software is inherently less safe than Linux/*BSD software. >This is because Microsoft has favored usability over security. >This is because the market has responded better to that tradeoff. >This is because your mom doesn't want to have to hire a technical >consultant to manage her IT infrastructure when all she wants to do is get >email pictures of her grandkids. // /Let me see, have I got this right? /Apple software is inherently less safe than Linux/*BSD software. /This is because Apple has favored usability over security. /This is because the market has responded better to that tradeoff. /This is because your mom doesn't want to have to hire a technical /consultant to manage her IT infrastructure when all she wants to do is get /email pictures of her grandkids. / /Hmmm... / /The last three statements make perfect sense but that first /one just doesn't seem right. Could it be that ease-of-use /has nothing whatsoever to do with security? / /--Michael Dillon What I gathered was TSR80's are making a comback for their ease of use This is because Tandy/Radio Shack is the last bastion of hope This is perhaps because people like that retro feeling This is because your ex girlfriend suggested you buy this (TSR80) so she won't have to hire a technical consultant to have her pictures removed from www.revengeworld.com or www.mobog.com being webcams and TSR's are a no no. J. Oquendo =+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+ Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? - Juvenal J. Oquendo GPG Key ID 0x51F9D78D Fingerprint 2A48 BA18 1851 4C99 CA22 0619 DB63 F2F7 51F9 D78D http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x51F9D78D sil @ politrix . org http://www.politrix.org sil @ infiltrated . net http://www.infiltrated.net

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