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Re: peter lothberg's mother slashdotted
by Brandon Butterworth 12 Jul '07

12 Jul '07

> Wouldn't residential fiber be > expected to radiate out from neighborhood break-out boxes, or at the > longest from a central office in the middle of town, rather than having > some central point where enough individual strands of fiber converged to > serve everybody in a 2,000 kilometer radius? CRS-1 so expensive there'll only be one per country. brandon

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None
by None 12 Jul '07

12 Jul '07

Fe4jZYBZiuiS+M8ERg/Tx2OKdNbdSK7wqbMAKQaQQVVX6rwrWXmVccyXdxuGAqMfo2ZBJK/shEp8i+3a fb5FKa4cZ/leRCvxjhexg=; Received: from [172.17.67.246] (unverified [12.104.158.98]) by mx1-b.inoc.net (build v7.5.2) with ESMTP id 127874759-1941382 for multiple; Thu, 12 Jul 2007 22:30:30 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4696AB85.1030407(a)inoc.net> Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 18:30:29 -0400 From: Robert Blayzor <rblayzor(a)inoc.net> Organization: INOC, LLC User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.4 (Windows/20070604) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mikael Abrahamsson <swmike(a)swm.pp.se> CC: nanog(a)nanog.org Subject: Re: peter lothberg's mother slashdotted References: <12997.1184264272(a)sa.vix.com> <20070712133910.B8475(a)sprockets.gibbar d.org> <Pine.LNX.4.64.0707122342300.29164(a)uplift.swm.pp.se> In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0707122342300.29164(a)uplift.swm.pp.se> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-nanog(a)merit.edu Precedence: bulk Errors-To: owner-nanog(a)merit.edu X-Loop: nanog X-Junkmail-Status: score=10/50, host=mozart.merit.edu X-Junkmail-SD-Raw: score=unknown, refid=str=0001.0A090205.4696AC2F.00CC:SCGAP167720,ss=1,fgs=0, ip=198.108.1.26, so=2006-09-22 03:48:54, dmn=5.3.14/2007-05-31 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: NonJunk X-UID: 31 Mikael Abrahamsson wrote: > It's a demonstration of backbone technology, not really access technology. It's not even that. We all know that 40G technology exists today, this article doesn't prove anything. How about they fling their magic wand some more and show us where 40G to the residential marketplace is a viable business model. By todays technology costs to make that happen and what the average residential consumer pays, your ROI is about 20 years. ;-) -Robert

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None
by None 12 Jul '07

12 Jul '07

la.org) by sumamail.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2) with ESMTP-TLS id 17590560 for nanog(a)nanog.org; Thu, 12 Jul 2007 15:22:43 -070 0 Message-ID: <4696A9B2.2080401(a)velvet.org> Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 15:22:42 -0700 From: matthew zeier <mrz(a)velvet.org> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.4 (Macintosh/20070604) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "nanog(a)nanog.org" <nanog(a)nanog.org> Subject: juniper netscreen & cisco ios ipsec Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-nanog(a)merit.edu Precedence: bulk Errors-To: owner-nanog(a)merit.edu X-Loop: nanog X-Junkmail-Status: score=10/50, host=mozart.merit.edu X-Junkmail-SD-Raw: score=unknown, refid=str=0001.0A090207.4696AA38.00BE:SCGAP167720,ss=1,fgs=0, ip=198.108.1.26, so=2006-09-22 03:48:54, dmn=5.3.14/2007-05-31 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: NonJunk X-UID: 30 This might border OT but I'm going crazy trying to get this IPSEC up between these two boxes (both in NA so maybe it is OT). If anyone has done so, drop me a line?

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peter lothberg's mother slashdotted
by Paul Vixie 12 Jul '07

12 Jul '07

http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/07/12/1236231 http://www.thelocal.se/7869/20070712/

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Re: TCP congestion
by Joel Jaeggli 12 Jul '07

12 Jul '07

om X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-nanog(a)merit.edu Precedence: bulk Errors-To: owner-nanog(a)merit.edu X-Loop: nanog X-Junkmail-Status: score=10/50, host=mozart.merit.edu X-Junkmail-SD-Raw: score=unknown, refid=str=0001.0A090203.4696A28F.00EF:SCGAP167720,ss=1,fgs=0, ip=198.108.1.26, so=2006-09-22 03:48:54, dmn=5.3.14/2007-05-31 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 27 Philip Lavine wrote: > I just don't understand how if there is 1 segment that gets lost how this coul d translate to such a catastrophic long period of slow-start. How can I minimize the impact of the inevitable segment loss/out of order over a WAN. Is QoS the only option? Different tcp congestion control algorithm... Instead of tcp reno use vegas or westwood? > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Stephen Wilcox <steve.wilcox(a)packetrade.com> > To: Philip Lavine <source_route(a)yahoo.com> > Cc: nanog <nanog(a)merit.edu> > Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 1:09:24 PM > Subject: Re: TCP congestion > > Well, if its out of order its the same as if its lost or delayed, it needs to see that missing segment before the window is full > > As mentioned you need to get dumps from both ends, you will almost definitely find that you have packet loss which tripped tcp's slow start mechanism. > > Steve > > On Thu, Jul 12, 2007 at 12:02:49PM -0700, Philip Lavine wrote: >> Even if the segment was received out of order what would cause congestion avo idance to starve the connection of legitimate traffic for 15 to 20 seconds? That is the core of the problem. >> >> ----- Original Message ---- >> From: Fred Baker <fred(a)cisco.com> >> To: Brian Knoll <Brian.Knoll(a)tradingtechnologies.com> >> Cc: Philip Lavine <source_route(a)yahoo.com>; nanog <nanog(a)merit.edu> >> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 11:56:06 AM >> Subject: Re: TCP congestion >> >> >> On Jul 12, 2007, at 11:42 AM, Brian Knoll ((TTNET)) wrote: >> >>> If the receiver is sending a DUP ACK, then the sender either never >>> received the first ACK or it didn't receive it within the timeframe it >>> expected. >> or received it out of order. >> >> Yes, a tcpdump trace is the first step. >> >> >> >> >> _____________________________________________________________________________ _______ >> Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows. Y ahoo! Answers - Check it out. >> http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545469 > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________________ ______ > Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell. > http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/ >

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None
by None 12 Jul '07

12 Jul '07

]) by chopin.merit.edu (MOS 3.8.2-GA) with ESMTP id AFJ81506; Thu, 12 Jul 2007 17:14:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from steve@localhost) by mrserver.telecomplete.net (8.13.8/8.13.8/Submit) id l6CLEgAS014617; Thu, 12 Jul 2007 22:14:42 +0100 Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 22:14:42 +0100 From: Stephen Wilcox <steve.wilcox(a)packetrade.com> To: Iljitsch van Beijnum <iljitsch(a)muada.com> Cc: Philip Lavine <source_route(a)yahoo.com>, nanog <nanog(a)merit.edu> Subject: Re: TCP congestion Message-ID: <20070712211442.GC14059(a)MrServer.telecomplete.net> References: <796919.42253.qm(a)web30811.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <922B68D8-BCB4-40B8-88 5A-2459BDFEDA34(a)muada.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <922B68D8-BCB4-40B8-885A-2459BDFEDA34(a)muada.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.2i Sender: owner-nanog(a)merit.edu Precedence: bulk Errors-To: owner-nanog(a)merit.edu X-Loop: nanog X-Junkmail-Status: score=10/50, host=mozart.merit.edu X-Junkmail-SD-Raw: score=unknown, refid=str=0001.0A090204.46969D83.005B:SCGAP167720,ss=1,fgs=0, ip=198.108.1.26, so=2006-09-22 03:48:54, dmn=5.3.14/2007-05-31 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 26 On Thu, Jul 12, 2007 at 10:54:56PM +0200, Iljitsch van Beijnum wrote: > On 12-jul-2007, at 22:27, Philip Lavine wrote: > > >I just don't understand how if there is 1 segment that gets lost > >how this could translate to such a catastrophic long period of slow- > >start. How can I minimize the impact of the inevitable segment > >loss/out of order over a WAN. Is QoS the only option? > > Also note that minimal amounts of cell loss on ATM create huge > amounts of packet loss at the IP layer. from the phrases used ('catastrophic') my feeling is that perhaps Philip isnt un derstanding that on a high speed TCP transfer a single missing bit of data can c ause the whole thing to stop and restart transmission from slow Steve

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None
by None 12 Jul '07

12 Jul '07

m [65.199.113.8]) by bach.merit.edu (MOS 3.8.2-GA) with SMTP id ADV41181; Thu, 12 Jul 2007 16:48:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from chiex01.int.tt.local ([172.17.250.113]) by chigtw01.tradingtechnologies.com (SMSSMTP 4.1.11.41) with SMTP id M200707121 5485228873 ; Thu, 12 Jul 2007 15:48:52 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: TCP congestion Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 15:48:41 -0500 Message-ID: <D4C8D8B144E6DE49AA3FC67557D58733061F40B5@chiex01> In-Reply-To: <796919.42253.qm(a)web30811.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Thread-Topic: TCP congestion Thread-Index: AcfExJFR3hrwrr66SpawYIutE51lMwAAMoGA References: <796919.42253.qm(a)web30811.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: "Brian Knoll \(TTNET\)" <Brian.Knoll(a)tradingtechnologies.com> To: "Philip Lavine" <source_route(a)yahoo.com>, "Stephen Wilcox" <steve.wilcox(a)packetrade.com> Cc: "nanog" <nanog(a)merit.edu> Sender: owner-nanog(a)merit.edu Precedence: bulk Errors-To: owner-nanog(a)merit.edu X-Loop: nanog X-Junkmail-Status: score=10/50, host=mozart.merit.edu X-Junkmail-SD-Raw: score=unknown, refid=str=0001.0A090202.4696967E.0055:SCGAP167720,ss=1,fgs=0, ip=198.108.1.26, so=2006-09-22 03:48:54, dmn=5.3.14/2007-05-31 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 22 Are you using TCP offloading on your windows box? I have seen issues with that in the past where it was dropping data. Turn it off and see if the issue goes away. =20 Are other the other connections traversing this path seeing the same issues? Still - the only definitive way to solve the problem is by getting captures from both ends. If you can isolate your wan with taps on each side and see packets being dropped, you know it's your ATM circuit. =20 QOS will not help you if you aren't exceeding bandwidth. =20 Thanks, Brian Knoll Senior Network Engineer, TTNET 312-698-6017 desk 312-823-0957 mobile -----Original Message----- From: owner-nanog(a)merit.edu [mailto:owner-nanog@merit.edu] On Behalf Of Philip Lavine Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 3:28 PM To: Stephen Wilcox Cc: nanog Subject: Re: TCP congestion I just don't understand how if there is 1 segment that gets lost how this could translate to such a catastrophic long period of slow-start. How can I minimize the impact of the inevitable segment loss/out of order over a WAN. Is QoS the only option? ----- Original Message ---- From: Stephen Wilcox <steve.wilcox(a)packetrade.com> To: Philip Lavine <source_route(a)yahoo.com> Cc: nanog <nanog(a)merit.edu> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 1:09:24 PM Subject: Re: TCP congestion Well, if its out of order its the same as if its lost or delayed, it needs to see that missing segment before the window is full As mentioned you need to get dumps from both ends, you will almost definitely find that you have packet loss which tripped tcp's slow start mechanism. Steve On Thu, Jul 12, 2007 at 12:02:49PM -0700, Philip Lavine wrote: >=20 > Even if the segment was received out of order what would cause congestion avoidance to starve the connection of legitimate traffic for 15 to 20 seconds? That is the core of the problem. >=20 > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Fred Baker <fred(a)cisco.com> > To: Brian Knoll <Brian.Knoll(a)tradingtechnologies.com> > Cc: Philip Lavine <source_route(a)yahoo.com>; nanog <nanog(a)merit.edu> > Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 11:56:06 AM > Subject: Re: TCP congestion >=20 >=20 > On Jul 12, 2007, at 11:42 AM, Brian Knoll ((TTNET)) wrote: >=20 > > If the receiver is sending a DUP ACK, then the sender either never > > received the first ACK or it didn't receive it within the timeframe it > > expected. >=20 > or received it out of order. >=20 > Yes, a tcpdump trace is the first step. >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > =20 > ________________________________________________________________________ ____________ > Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. > http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=3Dlist&sid=3D396545469 =20 ________________________________________________________________________ ____________ Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell.=20 http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/

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Re: TCP congestion
by Iljitsch van Beijnum 12 Jul '07

12 Jul '07

On 12-jul-2007, at 22:27, Philip Lavine wrote: > I just don't understand how if there is 1 segment that gets lost > how this could translate to such a catastrophic long period of slow- > start. How can I minimize the impact of the inevitable segment > loss/out of order over a WAN. Is QoS the only option? How exactly are you going to get out-of-order packets over a single link? Is there perhaps a firewall somewhere in the communication path? In that case' it's entirely possible that packets that use certain TCP options are filtered because the firewall doesn't implement these options. For instance, if there are selective acknowledgements, the firewall may not like that. Also, if you use the window scale option the firewall probably doesn't understand that and may easily conclude that a packet which is in-window with the scale factor applied is out-of-window because the scale factor _isn't_ applied and drop it, so that you miss the packet with byte 1, then get the ones with everything upto 65535 and the rest is dropped, and so many dropped packets will stop TCP dead in its tracks. Also note that minimal amounts of cell loss on ATM create huge amounts of packet loss at the IP layer.

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Re: peter lothberg's mother slashdotted
by Mikael Abrahamsson 12 Jul '07

12 Jul '07

mplete.net> <224E8D9D-CAB6-4DF0-BF69-7983DBBA68DB(a)ianai.net> Organization: People's Front Against WWW MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Sender: owner-nanog(a)merit.edu Precedence: bulk Errors-To: owner-nanog(a)merit.edu X-Loop: nanog X-Junkmail-Status: score=10/50, host=mozart.merit.edu X-Junkmail-SD-Raw: score=unknown, refid=str=0001.0A090205.46969871.011E:SCGAP167720,ss=1,fgs=0, ip=198.108.1.26, so=2006-09-22 03:48:54, dmn=5.3.14/2007-05-31 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 23 On Thu, 12 Jul 2007, Patrick W. Gilmore wrote: > His bathroom, IIRC. And I heard a rumor about his g/f's flat. I believe that was a GSR. He has his picture albums linked from <http://www.stupi.se> you might be able to find something there. I know I've seen pictures from the flat. -- Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike(a)swm.pp.se

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None
by None 12 Jul '07

12 Jul '07

mplete.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <224E8D9D-CAB6-4DF0-BF69-7983DBBA68DB(a)ianai.net> Cc: "Patrick W. Gilmore" <patrick(a)ianai.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Patrick W. Gilmore" <patrick(a)ianai.net> Subject: Re: peter lothberg's mother slashdotted Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 16:27:36 -0400 To: nanog(a)merit.edu X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) Sender: owner-nanog(a)merit.edu Precedence: bulk Errors-To: owner-nanog(a)merit.edu X-Loop: nanog X-Junkmail-Status: score=10/50, host=mozart.merit.edu X-Junkmail-SD-Raw: score=unknown, refid=str=0001.0A09020A.4696913A.0099:SCGAP167720,ss=1,fgs=0, ip=198.108.1.26, so=2006-09-22 03:48:54, dmn=5.3.14/2007-05-31 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 20 On Jul 12, 2007, at 4:06 PM, Stephen Wilcox wrote: > I guess the question is can she actually get any content to > download > 1Gbps? :) > > They cite this as worlds fastest home broadband but didnt Peter > install an OC-768 to his basement a few years ago when he was > testing some stuff for Sprint? His bathroom, IIRC. And I heard a rumor about his g/f's flat. Isn't Peter on this list? -- TFN, patrick > On Thu, Jul 12, 2007 at 06:17:52PM +0000, Paul Vixie wrote: >> >> http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/07/12/1236231 >> >> http://www.thelocal.se/7869/20070712/

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