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RE: NANOG and ARIN
by Jim Fleming 17 May '98

17 May '98

On Sunday, May 17, 1998 1:39 PM, Stephen Sprunk[SMTP:sprunk@paranet.com] wrote: @Jim Fleming wrote: @> How come all of these discussions about ARIN are not on the ARIN @> mailing list(s) ? @ @Because the bulk of people on naipr unsubscribed to get away from you, @and nanog is currently the only (while inappropriate) mailing list with @a significant audience. @ Are you saying that people discussing technical topics are really more concerned about the audience watching than the people involved in the discussion ? That sounds like marketing as opposed to a discussion. - Jim Fleming Unir Corporation - http://www.unir.net IPv8 - Designed for the Rest of the Human Race AM Radio Stations ---> http://www.DOT.AM

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RE: ARIN allocating /20 netblocks?
by Jim Fleming 17 May '98

17 May '98

On Sunday, May 17, 1998 5:56 AM, Michael Dillon[SMTP:michael@memra.com] wrote: @On Sun, 17 May 1998, Michael K. Smith wrote: @ @> Let's not forget to mention the 10,000 dialup customers who have to @> change their DNS numbers. We have sent snail-mail and e-mail over and @> over again, yet only about 1/3 of that 10k have actually made the change @> away from the old numbers. How many of those customers do you think @> we'll lose when we officially turn off the old ip's? @ @IMHO every dialup customer from every ISP in the world should use @192.168.254.1 for their DNS address and this number should be hard coded @as the default in all client software. Then this problem would go away. @ In doing that people would be moving in a direction toward IPv8. In IPv8, some IP addresses are viewed as "opaque handles" which are more like virtual addresses in a large distributed computer system. They can also be viewed as "locally-routed, specific-service, addresses". The following RFC 1918 IPv4 address ranges play a key role in the IPv8 0:0.x.x.x.x address space. User - DHCP Sub-Nets - 0:0.10.x.x.x Group - ISP Infrastructure - 0:0.172.16.0.0-0:0.172.31.0.0 World - Inter-ISP Links and Services - 0:0.192.168.1.x-0:0.192.168.254.x - Jim Fleming Unir Corporation - http://www.unir.net IPv8 - Designed for the Rest of the Human Race AM Radio Stations ---> http://www.DOT.AM

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Re: ARIN allocating /20 netblocks?
by Sean M. Doran 17 May '98

17 May '98

Karl Denninger writes: | Used previous allocation in < 3 months = Add 2 bits to the size | (ie: Used a /19 in > 3 months, get a /17 next time) | | Used previous allocation in < 6 months = Add 1 bit to the size | (ie: Used a /19 in < 6 months, get a /18 next time) | | Used previous allocation >= 6 months, <= 1 years = Same size | | Used previous allocation >= 1 year = Decrease one bit size UNLESS | you were at a /19, in which case we give you another /19 | ... | So we just got Mr. Big on the net - completely - with less than a half-dozen | announcements. This RIPE-like scheme is an extremely good one, and it would be a fantastic idea for ARIN to continue evolving towards an allocation policy very much like this. Sean.

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Re: ARIN allocating /20 netblocks?
by Sean M. Doran 17 May '98

17 May '98

Michael Dillon wrote: | In fact I can't | remember ever ... | hearing of a case in which an ISP lost a significant amount of business | because of renumbering. Renumbering is a fact of life on the Internet. People should be prepared to renumber, and technologies that facilitate easy renumbering should continue to be developed. That said, even if it were possible to renumber gracefully at any time, reducing the frequency and scope of renumbering is not in itself a bad idea. Therefore, I have no problem at all supporting an allocation policy designed to allow growing networks to undergo fewer renumberings, and to allow networks with many levels of administrative authority (as in the case of an ISP with downstream customers, some of which may also have downstream customers) to undergo nearly none. What appears to be the correct approach now has been outlined by Karl and implemented by RIPE. The test for who should get a minimum portable allocation unit (/19 these days) should be the only thing argued about. It should be easy for any ISP to obtain an initial allocation, and somewhat less easy for entities which do not re-allocate address space to others. Sean.

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RE: ARIN allocating /20 netblocks?
by Sean M. Doran 17 May '98

17 May '98

| I imagine stuff like this will just cause more and more customers to move | into environments with NAT Using NAT is not a bad thing. More and more customers will move towards NAT anyway, as NAT features and implementations improve. | or encourage them to join the bigger networks | where renumbering would be less likely. Karl's assertion is that adopting a RIPE-style system where for a fee anyone who is an ISP can get a small allocation of portable space, and add other allocations over time, is a practical solution. I agree completely. Sean.

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Re: ARIN allocating /20 netblocks?
by shields＠crosslink.net 17 May '98

17 May '98

In article <19980516152145.42206(a)mcs.net>, Karl Denninger <karl(a)mcs.net> wrote: > Why do you need to renumber out of previous space if MCI doesn't have to > when they get a bigger block handed to them? Like MCI, Jon will not need to renumber out of a /14. You only have to ever renumber out of small blocks. A /20 is not hard to renumber. -- Shields, CrossLink.

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RE: ARIN allocating /20 netblocks?
by Jamie Scheinblum 17 May '98

17 May '98

Karl makes a real good point, renumbering places an un-needed burdon on the customer; one they never asked for, and probably never expected. I imagine stuff like this will just cause more and more customers to move into environments with NAT, or encourage them to join the bigger networks where renumbering would be less likely. -Jamie (speaking only for myself) -----Original Message----- From: Karl Denninger [mailto:karl@mcs.net] Sent: Saturday, May 16, 1998 10:35 PM To: Michael Shields Cc: Jon Lewis; jamie(a)ais.net; Jeremiah Kristal; nanog(a)merit.edu Subject: Re: ARIN allocating /20 netblocks? [snip] We have some customers right now which encompass multiple downline connected parties over large geographic areas, and some of their equipment is incapable of doing things like DHCP (one comes to mind that happens to be a state agency). Renumbering THEM would be a job out of the depths of Hades itself; even broaching the subject would likely cost us the account. Any significant ISP has customers like this; there is no reason to impose these costs on you because you're smaller than someone else - no technical reason that is. -- -- Karl Denninger (karl(a)MCS.Net)| MCSNet - Serving Chicagoland and Wisconsin http://www.mcs.net/ | T1's from $600 monthly / All Lines K56Flex/DOV | NEW! Corporate ISDN Prices dropped by up to 50%! Voice: [+1 312 803-MCS1 x219]| EXCLUSIVE NEW FEATURE ON ALL PERSONAL ACCOUNTS Fax: [+1 312 803-4929] | *SPAMBLOCK* Technology now included at no cost

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Re: Wired Q: Embedded NT
by Ehab Hadi 17 May '98

17 May '98

I admit it if the perspective is to build all or a part of the WIN NT suites in a kind of a hardware or ASIC is not clear for me, the questions that I would like to raise: What version of WIN NT? is it 4.0 or beyond..? How do we expect customers will be confident enough to make this step?, Is WIN NT reliable, stable in a customized ASIC hence WIN NT would be more suitable than the general purpose hardware architecture?. Implementing standard IPv4 services on the ASIC and optimizing that still on its early stages; i.e., mostly for inter LAN routing. So, do how that will work for WIN NT?. Let's do it for multi-routed protocols in the ASIC switches and think further for the high-level embedded applications. I agree it might be a good idea if embedded NT is doing a single task such as Web caching, but not a "full fledge" switch/router. Ehab H. Hadi Northern Telecom, LTD. Voice: (613) 763-2762 Fax: (613) 763-5199 E-Mail: ehabh(a)nortel.ca >From owner-nanog(a)merit.edu Thu May 14 07:44:09 1998 >Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) > by merit.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA00208; > Thu, 14 May 1998 10:31:17 -0400 (EDT) >Received: by merit.edu (bulk_mailer v1.5); Thu, 14 May 1998 10:25:33 -0400 >Received: (from majordom@localhost) > by merit.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) id KAA29922 > for nanog-outgoing; Thu, 14 May 1998 10:25:33 -0400 (EDT) >Received: from home.merit.edu (home.merit.edu [198.108.60.42]) > by merit.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA29916 > for <nanog(a)merit.edu>; Thu, 14 May 1998 10:25:29 -0400 (EDT) >Received: (from ljb@localhost) by home.merit.edu (8.8.8/merit-2.0) id KAA11610 for nanog(a)merit.edu; Thu, 14 May 1998 10:25:29 -0400 (EDT) >Received: from wired.com (get.wired.com [204.62.131.5]) > by merit.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA16509 > for <nanog(a)merit.edu>; Wed, 13 May 1998 18:20:25 -0400 (EDT) >Received: from glave.hotwired.com (roaming-194-239.hotwired.com [206.221.194.239]) > by wired.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA09202 > for <nanog(a)merit.edu>; Wed, 13 May 1998 15:19:43 -0700 >Message-Id: <199805132219.PAA09202(a)wired.com> >X-Sender: james(a)pophost.wired.com >X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 >Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 15:19:26 -0700 >To: nanog(a)merit.edu >From: James Glave <james(a)wired.com> >Subject: Wired Q: Embedded NT >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Sender: owner-nanog(a)merit.edu > >Hi all, > >James Glave at Wired News again. This time around I am seeking opinions on >behalf of a friend up at Wired (the print magazine) -- concerning embedded >NT. I couldn't find any discussion in the nanog archive, so I'm wondering >if anoyne here has any experience with, or knowledge of, embedding NT in >networking hardware - if that even makes any sense....? > >>From: Jesse Freund <freund(a)wired.com> >>i'm working on a piece about nt-embedded and i have a couple of questions. >>i'm hoping you might be able to hook me up with a smart network operator or >>someone else in the know or perhaps you know. basically, i'm curious why >>the hell someone would want a version of nt embedded in a switch or router? >>and who provides the custom solutions nt-embedded is meant to replace? > >Thanks, all! > >jtg > >James Glave, Senior Technology Writer >Wired News http://www.wired.com (415) 276-8430 > >Unstoppable Force of the Week: "Gettin' jiggy wit' it!" > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

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Re: ARIN allocating /20 netblocks?
by owen＠DeLong.SJ.CA.US 17 May '98

17 May '98

> > Ok, so I only lose 16 T1 customers instead of 1024. > > If you lose 16 T1 customers during a renumbering of a /20, either you > don't know how to renumber, or they were already unhappy for some > other reason. > > If you tell your customers "You need to renumber because evil forces > are colluding against us," they won't be very amenable... try > explaining that they'll get better connectivity. > > The social and technical problems of renumbering a /20 are nonzero but > not large. > > I've done it. > -- > Shields, CrossLink. > Not always. I know of at least one case where a customer cannot (will not) renumber out of a /24 because they (without commenting on the intellectual prowess of this particular act) shipped a million CD's with the .128 IP address in that class C hard coded into their game. Sure, it's only one IP, one machine to renumber, but... Owen

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Re: Spring (not t) 1998 NOC Contact Test Results
by Sean Donelan 17 May '98

17 May '98

Ignore the typo in the subject line. -- Sean Donelan, Data Research Associates, Inc, St. Louis, MO Affiliation given for identification not representation

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