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Re: RBL quandry - opinions hereby solicited
by Dean Anderson 24 Nov '98

24 Nov '98

Paul says his only requirement is that they stop when asked. Well, I haven't seen any evidence that they won't or don't. All I have heard is that they make you choose between their email and their service, or no email and no service. That they don't change their business when someone demands and still do business with that person is another matter. It might be arguable about whether they can or should give their list to someone else or who owns the list. But it not even questionable that they can use it themselves to promote their own services. Perhaps you are getting something from NSI that I'm not getting. I've gotten advertisements on topics like how to do DNS, etc. Things that NSI might be able to train people on. Things that registrants of domains might need training on. I haven't gotten anything from NSI that isn't part of NSI's own business, unless you count verisign stuff, which could possibly be outside, but it is still certainly related to their business, and the business of those who have domains registered with them. I actually haven't gotten any email from NSI about verisign--Its all on their we page, I think. I haven't gotten any spam from NSI about, oh, say, the latest porn site, or how to get rich quick using chain letters. I haven't heard that people who aren't customers of NSI are getting unsolicited email from NSI. But you are still missing the definition of spam: what is unsolicited email. It is not "unsolicited" when you have a previously existing relationship, especially a relationship that specifies that you agree to give NSI your email address, and you agree with NSI that they can send you email. Furthermore, you can make NSI stop sending you email simply by not doing business with them. You can register domains in other registries. NSI isn't going out and buying email lists, and spraying email. They are sending to their own customer list. This is using the RBL to bully NSI. Its not about spam. --Dean At 05:07 PM 11/21/1998 -0500, Rich Sena wrote: >Dean stop beeing a boob - it's spam - it's not hey glad your a customer >hope all is well it's hey use us to register new domains - it's being >generated to compete against other avenues of registration - lets call it >what it is - if you like it great - give it a hug and kiss and give it a >rest - the majority I would assume aren't real thrilled about it - and the >whole speil about fake email addresses cuz folk don't want to give out >theirs - is bullshit - the correct answer is "then you don't get a domain" >drive through please. > >On Mon, 16 Nov 1998, Dean Anderson wrote: > >> Not so. You can use another registry. .COM, .NET, and .ORG may be the most >> popular, but they are not the only ones. When you refuse to do business >> with NSI, they don't send you email. They don't get lists and send email >> to random people. If you don't agree to let NSI send you email, they won't >> do business with you. Everyone agreed to those terms. Can't come back and >> change them later, because you don't like it. >> >> Personally, I don't see anything wrong with most of the mail I've gotten >> from them. Some of it a bit technically insulting, but that doesn't make >> it totally unreasonable from an email ethics point of view. It certainly >> doesn't qualify as spam, since it is in fact solicited. You paid $100+ for >> the privilege. >> >> Technically, they aren't broadcasting either. They are sending email to >> their customers. Not potential future customers. Existing customers. They >> didn't buy this list from somewhere. They asked for, and required customers >> to give this information, and to give them permission to send email. >> >> You seem to be in a conflict with your own rules, since you have said that >> you don't RBL companies that are using their own internal lists. As I >> thought, you aren't operating from some kind of moral or ethical principal, >> you are just bullying others. I just don't like that, whether you happen >> to be right or not. >> >> >> 2] They are sending to folks that use the service. >> > >> >yes. which is: everybody who has a domain in COM, NET, or ORG. >> >> Ahh, it has finally come to a confrontation with someone who quite possibly >> speaks more authoritatively for everyone in those domains than you do. >> This will be interesting, to say the least. >> >> I wonder if RBLing NetSol is cause for them to put vix.com on hold. That >> would be a hoot. I suppose they actually could call you in breach of >> contract for refusing to receive email, refund your money, and cancel your >> domains. >> >> --Dean >> >> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >> Plain Aviation, Inc dean(a)av8.com >> LAN/WAN/UNIX/NT/TCPIP http://www.av8.com >> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >> > >-- >I am nothing if not net-Q! - ras(a)poppa.clubrich.tiac.net > > > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Plain Aviation, Inc dean(a)av8.com LAN/WAN/UNIX/NT/TCPIP http://www.av8.com ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

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IMAP attacks continue
by Daniel Senie 24 Nov '98

24 Nov '98

The frequency of IMAP attacks is increasing, and the number of IP addresses scanned per attack seems to be increasing as well. In the last 24 hours, I've been scanned by: fermi.math.csi.cuny.edu c149.lib.uci.edu sockeye.cob.calpoly.edu quebec.upa.qc.ca Anyone upstream of any of these able to add a Sniffer? It'd be interesting to see if someone is connected in via telnet or ssh and launching the attacks remotely. With all of these types of attack in the last several days, the systems doing the attacking have all been ones that were compromised. -- ----------------------------------------------------------------- Daniel Senie dts(a)senie.com Amaranth Networks Inc. http://www.amaranthnetworks.com

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Re: Router gets hurt!
by John Fraizer 24 Nov '98

24 Nov '98

Thats Bills way of saying, "You all think you're hot snot with this IP stuff, don't you? Well, check this out!" It is a good idea to start with but, I don't think that microsoft ever thought about what would happen in the event that there were tons of boxes on the network where the "election" was held. You can do the same thing with a couple of *nix boxes running samba if you really want to do so. At 10:01 PM 11/23/98 -0800, Jason Weisberger wrote: > >Discovered today that NT has the built in ability to drown your network >and stomp on the routers cpu. Seems if someone sets up 2 NT domain masters >or whatever that Netbios garbage is called, they attempt to "hold an >election." The election is comprised of slamming every machine it can find >and then every broadcast address it can think of with udp on port 137. > >After a few minutes of it an RSP4 gets real tired and you start losing >packets as well as the switches all falling apart after trying to forward >the zillion mbits/sec of useless data. > >Anyone else seen anything like this? > >-- >Jason Weisberger >Chief Technology Officer >SoftAware, Inc. 310/305-0275 > ------------------------------------------------------------------ Get your *FREE* Parked Domain account at http://www.EZ-Hosting.Com ------------------------------------------------------------------ John Fraizer | __ _ | The System Administrator | / / (_)__ __ ____ __ | The choice mailto:John.Fraizer@EnterZone.Net | / /__/ / _ \/ // /\ \/ / | of a GNU http://www.EnterZone.Net/ | /____/_/_//_/\_,_/ /_/\_\ | Generation PGP Key fingerprint = 7DB6 1CA2 DAA6 43DA 3AAF 44CD 258C 3D7E B425 81A8

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Router gets hurt!
by Jason Weisberger 24 Nov '98

24 Nov '98

Discovered today that NT has the built in ability to drown your network and stomp on the routers cpu. Seems if someone sets up 2 NT domain masters or whatever that Netbios garbage is called, they attempt to "hold an election." The election is comprised of slamming every machine it can find and then every broadcast address it can think of with udp on port 137. After a few minutes of it an RSP4 gets real tired and you start losing packets as well as the switches all falling apart after trying to forward the zillion mbits/sec of useless data. Anyone else seen anything like this? -- Jason Weisberger Chief Technology Officer SoftAware, Inc. 310/305-0275

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Re: NSI policy on lame delagations
by Paul Vixie 24 Nov '98

24 Nov '98

> Yet having the advantage that when your SQL- or other-based database > fails, your nameservers don't. I don't disagree with this. There's certainly a mode where BIND should be able to create its own b-tree by loading all of a zone and then managing it through a memory window. But there's also a more sparse mode where you just don't want to have another copy of your zone data, nor the resource consumption of having to make that copy, nor the delay between the times you pick to make that copy. Right now there's no choice since there's no zone API. One is coming, but not in 8.1.2++. -- Paul Vixie <paul(a)vix.com>

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Re: WebTV.Net: Censorship Central?
by Eric Germann 23 Nov '98

23 Nov '98

If Paul will add 208.222.122.40 to the RBL and Merit will use the RBL I'll bet many NANOG readers would buy a WebTV unit just to get rid of Bob... Bob, many pray that you would be added to the RBL, nightly as a matter of fact, before supplications for ones own health. Drop it. ---Bob Allisat wrote: > > > <http://fcn.net/no> > > Microsoft's Web TV Network, with hundreds of thousands of subscribers, > uses the real-time black hole list censorship software. Very disturbing > since it niether tells it's clients their mail and WWW is being censored > nor offers them the choice as to whether or not to allow this censorship. > Outside their lame anti-spam statement there is no indication of any > censorship anywhere else <http://www.webtv.net/antispam/>. > > Perhaps the people using WebTV would appreciate knowing the fact that > Web TV censors their access. Or, even better, maybe Web TV could offer > them the choice as to whether their black list is off or on (default > to off). I'd be royally pissed off if I used WebTV and found out every- > thing I did was behind some one fellow's idea of right and wrong. Shame > on Web TV Networks! More info at: > > <http://fcn.net/no> > > Paul Vixie writes: > <http://maps.vix.com/rbl/webtv.html> > > If you received an error while trying to send mail to WebTV, > > please click here. > * (next page) > > Having problems sending to WebTV? > > > > Although WebTV�(webtv.net) uses the RBL, they also have their own > > list of IP addresses they reject mail from. Just because they > > reject mail from a site does not mean that site is on the > > MAPS�RBL. > > > > You can check to see whether your IP�address is on the RBL by > > checking <URL:http://maps.vix.com/cgi-bin/lookup> ; enter your > > IP�address in the form. > > > > If you do not know what your IP�address is, please contact your > > system administrator or ISP. Complaining to us about WebTV's > > actions is, unfortunately, largely useless, as we have no control > > over how they (or anyone else) runs their systems. > > > > Please contact WebTV�for information on why your address block is > > on their list, and how to get it removed. > > Bob Allisat > > Free Community Network _ bob(a)fcn.net . http://fcn.net > http://fcn.net/allisat _ http://fcn.net/draft > > > > _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

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Re: Anyone know...
by Dean Anderson 23 Nov '98

23 Nov '98

If you got mail on saturday, then I think the next reload is monday night. --Dean At 12:41 PM 11/23/1998 -0500, Steven J. Sobol wrote: >why the InterNIC notified me that changes to a domain had been >completed on Saturday, and Whois is updated, but the root servers >still point to DNS on the old site even though there have been two >root server updates since then? Is this related to the problem we were >all discussing last week? > >-- >Steve Sobol [sjsobol(a)nacs.net] >Part-time Support Droid [support(a)nacs.net] >NACS Spaminator [abuse(a)nacs.net] > >Spotted on a bumper sticker: "Possum. The other white meat." > > > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Plain Aviation, Inc dean(a)av8.com LAN/WAN/UNIX/NT/TCPIP http://www.av8.com ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

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Re: Anyone know...
by Steven J. Sobol 23 Nov '98

23 Nov '98

On Mon, Nov 23, 1998 at 10:13:17AM -0800, Lee Henrikson wrote: > Steven, > > I am having the same problem (I am not a poster to nanog). Have been > through the update process on one domamin twice. Will be curious if > anyone knows the answer. I have a feeling I'm not the only one they screwed up. Calls to their customer service desk have resulted in "All lines are busy" messages all day long. -- Steve Sobol [sjsobol(a)nacs.net] Part-time Support Droid [support(a)nacs.net] NACS Spaminator [abuse(a)nacs.net] Spotted on a bumper sticker: "Possum. The other white meat."

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Anyone know...
by Steven J. Sobol 23 Nov '98

23 Nov '98

why the InterNIC notified me that changes to a domain had been completed on Saturday, and Whois is updated, but the root servers still point to DNS on the old site even though there have been two root server updates since then? Is this related to the problem we were all discussing last week? -- Steve Sobol [sjsobol(a)nacs.net] Part-time Support Droid [support(a)nacs.net] NACS Spaminator [abuse(a)nacs.net] Spotted on a bumper sticker: "Possum. The other white meat."

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Re: No longer: NSI policy on lame delagations
by jprovo＠ma.ultranet.com 23 Nov '98

23 Nov '98

jzp> Have you thought about moving this to a DNS/BIND related list? Much jzp> better than ranting loonies, but strayed far afield of the orginal jzp> marginally-operational thread that NSI is finally enforcing a long- jzp> standing policy. djb>Actually, a discussion of DNS/BIND implementations falls directly under djb>the charter, as described on the MERIT web site. [snip] djb>Now a specific implementation of DNS/BIND to ensure that domains do not go djb>blank during zonefile reloads and such is DEFINITELY something that djb>"ensures the stability of overall service to the network users". Whatever; we disagree and Merit doesn't lord over the list -beyond Craig's remarks at Atlanta- so others will decide if they participate or not. The existing tools "ensure stability"; even more primative implementations can do it provided they are deployed with some thought. Perhaps details related to packing all DNS service into one box are interesting to enough people here to warrant life staying in the thread. djb>My point: If you want to make this a "router-discussion-only" mailing djb>list, the charter on the website needs to be seriously overhauled, since Nowhere did I invoke "how do i configure my router for this". My point was merely that internals (plugs into your-favorite-database, memory mappings, etc) of essential services are rather interesting, but are fodder for existing lists/newsgroups. Joe "not arguing; I gave up being net.cop when usenet went to hell" Provo -- Joe Provo, Network Architect 508.229.8400 x3006 Commercial Internet Services Group Fax 508.229.2375 UltraNet Communications, Inc., an RCN Company <jprovo(a)ultra.net>

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