- NANOG - lists.nanog.org

Re: Beer and Gear surprise
by Ukyo Kuonji 22 Feb '01

22 Feb '01

I, for one, HAVE organized a conference, and a rally. I know of the hard, often thankless, work that it takes to put together a successful conference. If a NANOG meeting ever came to my town (which I would love for my company to host), I would gladly volunteer to pitch in. Unfortunately, there isn't much to do or see in this town, so I suspect that it wouldn't be a highly attended conference. I appreciate the hard work that everyone did to put on what I would consider another successful NANOG. I certainly enjoyed it, and will continue to go to additional meetings, even if there is no "gear". I only have an issue of expecting one thing, and getting quite another, without warning or knowing about the true reason why. It's like going to McDonalds to get a meal and finding out your Big Mac is on a regular bun instead of the sesame seed bun because the guy that cleaned the restrooms took offence to all the seeds in the toilet. Think of the people that went to NANOG like your kids. You go get them a Happy Meal only to find out that there is no surprise inside. Your kids still get to eat, and that was the important thing, but are still disappointed that they didn't get their toy. UK --- Opinions in this email are the personal opinions of the author and are not associated with author's employer. This email account is a not the regular email account of the author and is being used for the protection of the employer. On Wed, Feb 21, Vijay wrote: The Merit people spend an incredible amount of time and effort doing this conference so we (the spoiled brats) can get together face to face and discuss our day jobs and instead of thanking them, we're whining up a storm over some pieces of schwag? Running something this large and running it this well is _hard_, folks. If we had some ham, we could have a ham and cheese sandwich if we had some cheese. /vijay _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

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Re: Beer and Gear surprise
by Hank Nussbacher 22 Feb '01

22 Feb '01

At 22:04 21/02/01 -0500, Daniel L. Golding wrote: >There is an easy solution here. If folks are really incensed about the >lack of vendor goodies and/or the level of excitement on certain panels, >they can: > >1) Volunteer to speak at future NANOG meetings on stuff they feel is more >exciting > >2) Provide feedback on the survey > >3) Buy Merit and run it themselves Just the 35.0.0.0/8 alone should be worth about $1b. :-) -Hank >4) Turn NANOG into a membership organization run by an elected board. > >I suggest #1 and #2. If you have lots of money, you could always try >#3. #4 is intrigueing, but I doubt the collective will to accomplish it, >particularly as this issue is a dearth of vendor supplied undergarments, >which, while tragic, is not exactly the sort of cause that folks would >rally around. > >Daniel Golding NetRail,Inc. >"Better to light a candle than to curse the darkness" > >On Wed, 21 Feb 2001, John M . Brown wrote: > > > > > Yes, a specific single person at MERIT found the boxer shourts > > offensive. In talking with many other people at that NANOG, > > both male and female, they didn't find the shorts offensive and > > infact where sought after. > > > > Thus a "gray market" in cisco shorts was created, preventing Cisco > > from taking it in the "shorts". > > > > If that has now grown to "vendors can't give anything" out, then > > its a SAD SAD SAD DAY. > > > > I certainly hope those at MERIT will help educate the power to be.. > > > > NANOG now has gone Corporate, In fact I am surprised MERIT is sponsoring > > Beer, I mean someone could get tipsy and have an accident (other > > than dropping there shorts). > > > > It reminds me of those start-ups that have beer thirty on the back > > loading dock on fridays. They grow, people enjoy hanging out, working > > hard and having some fun. > > > > Then one day someone decides its not "the right image, or something" > > and the friday 4:30 parties are killed. Its the dawn of Corporate > > Image and RED TAPE. > > > > I seriously hope NANOG doesn't go that way. > > > > I mention no names, as to protect the stuffy and the guilty. > > > > jmbrown > > > > > > On Wed, Feb 21, 2001 at 01:13:50AM -0500, Adam Rothschild wrote: > > > > > > [ Warning: this message is void of any operational content. ] > > > > > > On Tue, Feb 20, 2001 at 11:36:55PM -0600, Ukyo Kuonji wrote: > > > > Did I miss some discussion about the Beer and Gear surprise? I, > > > > personally, feel somewhat cheated that there was no "gear" available > > > > from the vendors in attendance. > > > > > > <rumor> > > > > > > Sponsors were specifically asked _not_ to give out clothing, as the > > > Cisco boxer shorts distributed at NANOG 20 were somehow deemed > > > offensive and discriminatory. > > > > > > </rumor> > > > > > > Don't get me wrong, Beer and Gear was definitely time well spent, I > > > just found the "gear" aspect (assuming that's in reference to > > > freebies, not hardware demonstrated by vendors) a bit lacking. ;) > > > > > > Long live free vendorware. > > > > > > -adam > > > > >

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Access Control
by Smith, Rick 22 Feb '01

22 Feb '01

Does anyone use Proximity sensors to allow a magnetic keycard to unlock the doors of their facilities ? If so, what brand ? What software do you run behind it ? Will it work with Windows 2000 Domain controllers to provide seamless entry / exit across a nationwide network ? Thanks, Rick Smith Director of Technical Services Applied Tactical Systems (A division of Vertex Interactive, Inc.) http://www.atsworld.com --- http://www.vertexinteractive.com (973) 808 - 1750 x382

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Re: Beer and Gear surprise
by owen＠dixon.delong.sj.ca.us 22 Feb '01

22 Feb '01

> > > In talking with many other people at that NANOG, > > both male and female, they didn't find the shorts offensive and > > infact where sought after. > > zoc-int-brk01#shorts? > % Unrecognized command > > John, _I_ found it offensive. When I need underwear, I damned well go to > a department store. I don't go looking for them at a conference. If > you're at a conference looking for underwear rather than hoping to > exchange clue, I'd suggest you're there for the wrong reason. > > -Bill > > > > A conference... I'm not sure about that. _THE_ NANOG conference is definitely the wrong venue for "Looking" for underwear. But as I understand it, there has been a long tradition of Internet-arranged conferences that resulted in the exchange of underwear/etc. We now return you to your regularly scheduled program. This was not the email you were looking for. Move along. Move along. Owen

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Re: Beer and Gear surprise
by owen＠dixon.delong.sj.ca.us 22 Feb '01

22 Feb '01

> I AM a little concerned if this was a decision made by Merit. Last I knew, > this was a NANOG meeting, not a Merit meeting. I do not believe that Merit > should be making a decision of this nature without the direct input of the > NANOG membership. If I missed this in October or November, I apologize. > <fact> There is no NANOG membership. There is the NANOG community. There are no firm criteria for citizenship in said community, so it would be difficult to define a voting process in terms of who does or does not get to vote. </fact> Owen > --- > Opinions in this email are the personal opinions of the author and are not > associated with author's employer. This email account is a not the regular > email account of the author and is being used for the protection of the > employer. > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > From: Stephen Stuart <stuart(a)mfnx.net> > To: Adam Rothschild <asr(a)latency.net> > CC: Ukyo Kuonji <kawaii_iinazuke(a)hotmail.com>, nanog(a)merit.edu > Subject: Re: Beer and Gear surprise > Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 02:43:34 -0800 > > > <rumor> > > > > Sponsors were specifically asked _not_ to give out clothing, as the > > Cisco boxer shorts distributed at NANOG 20 were somehow deemed > > offensive and discriminatory. > > > > </rumor> > > <fact> > > At NANOG 20, there was a mad rush from the meeting room before > technical talks were over for the day to get to the Beer and Gear to > suck up all the vendor trinkets. This was perceived as being > astoundingly disrespectful to the people who take the time to put > together a presentation and deliver it. > > </fact> > > Stephen > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > >

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Re: Beer and Gear surprise
by owen＠dixon.delong.sj.ca.us 22 Feb '01

22 Feb '01

> > [ Warning: this message is void of any operational content. ] > > On Tue, Feb 20, 2001 at 11:36:55PM -0600, Ukyo Kuonji wrote: > > Did I miss some discussion about the Beer and Gear surprise? I, > > personally, feel somewhat cheated that there was no "gear" available > > from the vendors in attendance. > > <rumor> > > Sponsors were specifically asked _not_ to give out clothing, as the > Cisco boxer shorts distributed at NANOG 20 were somehow deemed > offensive and discriminatory. > > </rumor> > > Don't get me wrong, Beer and Gear was definitely time well spent, I > just found the "gear" aspect (assuming that's in reference to > freebies, not hardware demonstrated by vendors) a bit lacking. ;) > > Long live free vendorware. > > -adam > > Er... I can understand offensive (I don't agree, but I can understand), but I don't understand how they were discriminatory. The only people in my house that like to wear Boxers are my two daughters. I'm a tighty whitey person myself. Most of my daughters female friends claim to prefer boxers too. Maybe it's just local to SJ. Owen

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Re: Beer and Gear surprise
by owen＠dixon.delong.sj.ca.us 22 Feb '01

22 Feb '01

> I have found this on the web site: > > "In striving to achieve these goals, all tutorials and presentations, > including BOF presentations, are reviewed in advance and are limited to > those entirely of a general technical nature, explicitly prohibiting > material that relates to any specific product or service offerings. For > similar reasons, equipment exhibits are limited to the "Beer 'n Gear" > sessions, and vendor giveaways are not permitted at any time during the > meeting." > > I'm not sure if there was a vote of the membership, or what, but I had > certainly missed it. > > Does anyone have more information on this? > I agree with your general point that the vendor giveaways should be restored to the beer 'n gear. I did not notice any sort of vote. I think it was decided by the folks at Merit. Someone said it was the result of one person at Merit reacting to a particular Cisco giveaway (underpants?) at one of the last two NANOGs which I missed. Anyway, Merit, if your listening, bring back the vendor chachkies (sp?) at the Beer & Gear. It's supposed to be the exception to the Purley Academic nature of NANOG, and I really don't see drawing a line where booze and food are OK and flashlights, pens, t-shirts, underwear, etc. are bad, just because food doesn't stay with you (unless it's bad or you eat too much). Owen

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Beer and Gear surprise
by Ukyo Kuonji 22 Feb '01

22 Feb '01

Did I miss some discussion about the Beer and Gear surprise? I, personally, feel somewhat cheated that there was no "gear" available from the vendors in attendance. If I had known that there was to be no freebees, I certainly could have went to dinner early and not hung around to look at equipment that I already have seen directly from the vendors. I did not spend money to come out to Atlanta to get hit upon by vendors. If I had wanted to look at vendors, I could have went to some other conferences and spent more time looking at equipment that I won't be recommending for deployment. Without some freebees to draw the nanog conference attendees to the vendors, I don't even see the point of continuing to have the the Beer and Gear part. I have found this on the web site: "In striving to achieve these goals, all tutorials and presentations, including BOF presentations, are reviewed in advance and are limited to those entirely of a general technical nature, explicitly prohibiting material that relates to any specific product or service offerings. For similar reasons, equipment exhibits are limited to the "Beer 'n Gear" sessions, and vendor giveaways are not permitted at any time during the meeting." I'm not sure if there was a vote of the membership, or what, but I had certainly missed it. Does anyone have more information on this? UK --- Opinions in this email are the personal opinions of the author and are not associated with author's employer. This email account is a not the regular email account of the author and is being used for the protection of the employer. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

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Re: Beer and Gear surprise
by Richard A. Steenbergen 22 Feb '01

22 Feb '01

On Wed, Feb 21, 2001 at 08:40:03PM -0500, Jared Mauch wrote: > > If i were a vendor i'd at least make them talk to me or get a > business card/name on a sign-in sheet before they got their goodies. > It's better business than showing up and giving away 550 t-shirts at a > considerable cost to me with no return on my investment other than the > advertizing value. Not to drag this discussion out any longer then it needs to be, but 550 t-shirts is hardly a budgetary nightmare considering the amount of money that the people who attend NANOG spend on these vendors. I very much doubt any real discussions with vendors take place over and beer and gear, its an opportunity to build goodwill and for people to get an upclose look at new equipment they might not otherwise have the opportunity to see. IMHO, This entire discussion is really quite sad. Yes the boxers and "IP Everywhere" shirts are not items you'll find in the Cisco Marketplace, but I didn't think the point of the beer and gear was to get drunk and be politically correct. People go their to socialize, have a good time, and yes they like to get neat little toys and clothing. If you cannot deal with this you don't have to go, noone said you had to take off your suit and tie and put on a Cisco t-shirt. As for the "outrage" over people leaving conferences early, maybe the problem is that the presentation is less interesting then a tshirt. I know I'm not the only one who was praying for someone to snipe the presenter off the stage during that 2 hour long MPLS VPN nightmare. And yes I've said as much in my survey. </2cents> -- Richard A Steenbergen <ras(a)e-gerbil.net> http://www.e-gerbil.net/ras PGP Key ID: 0x138EA177 (67 29 D7 BC E8 18 3E DA B2 46 B3 D8 14 36 FE B6)

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Re:RE: Monitoring/Trending Software -- Which Package(s) do y
by CARL P HIRSCH 22 Feb '01

22 Feb '01

Just curious, Would HP's Openview Network Node Manager be suitable for this application? I evaluated NNM some time ago but found it rather bloated and I figured that it would really only be truly useful in an HP-UX environment where NNM could integrate with all the other Openview components. One thing I found appealing is that NNM sits on an Oracle backend (according to the marketroids, anyhow), meaning that you could run reports till the cows came home. I've always been told that trend analysis is where OpenView Network Node Manager shines. Plus, it's Fully Buzzword Compliant. Every IT manager's eyes light up when they hear "OpenView", but is it really useful in a real-world scenario? For network monitoring, I've actually grown to really like IpSwitch Software's WhatsUp Gold. I wrote it off for a long time but grudgingly tried it out during a time crunch and was pretty impressed. It's bare-bones, and NT-only, but it's so durn easy to get up and running with it in a pinch. It handles ICMP, SNMP, and RMON with threshold alerts. I'm thinking it supports a wide variety of MIBs. I found its reporting a bit lacking, though. It probably would be more or less useless for trend analysis. I'm sure I'd get more out of MRTG is I was more comfortable with Perl. One of my projects has been to investigate monitoring/trending solutions under Linux/*BSD. Apparently somebody just created a Debian distribution for net telemetry collection. I haven't found much under Linux for RMON yet, and there certainly doesn't appear to be anything like a free full-featured monitoring/trending suite out there. Any suggestions? -carl hirsch network analyst sargent & lundy llc chicago 60603 ____________________Reply Separator____________________ Subject: RE: Monitoring/Trending Software -- Which Package(s) do you Author: owner-nanog-outgoing(a)merit.edu Date: 2/21/01 9:45 AM Actually you probably need to look at VitalNet.. This is a competing product to Concorde NetHealth... -----Original Message----- From: John Starta [mailto:john@starta.org] Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 9:23 PM To: Lee Watterworth Lucent's VitalSuite (either SP or Enterprise) software is definitely worth a look. You can find detailed information about it on their web site: http://www.lucentnps.com/software/ jas At 05:44 PM 2/20/01 -0500, Lee Watterworth wrote: >I have been handed the task of finding a monitoring/trending package for >our network and systems. > >I will be looking at the package's collection mechanism for flexibility >(snmp gets, traps, rmon), and the variety/configurability of the reports >it can produce. The package should be able to provide (configurable) >alerts when threshholds are met/surpassed. > >I have been evaluating Concord's eHealth Suite, and would like to evaluate >other options before I commit to a particular package. > >Any feedback would be great. > >-Lee.

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