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Two administrative boo-boos?
by John Fraizer 13 Apr '01

13 Apr '01

I believe I've found two administrative boo-boos. 4 mae-east.enkido.net (198.32.187.119) [5696] 27.268 ms 23.847 ms 24.667 ms Problem #1: The hop above is showing up for traces into an exodus. $ traceroute 216.33.96.162 1 CORE-0-GE-3-1000M.CMH.ENTERZONE.NET (66.35.65.1) 0.539 ms 0.756 ms 0.893 ms 2 core1-FE1.Columbus.fnsi.net (209.115.93.129) [6259] 1.227 ms 1.500 ms 1.856 ms 3 border1-atm6-0-0-2.Reston.fnsi.net (216.29.101.50) [6259] 22.570 ms 22.259 ms 22.417 ms 4 mae-east.enkido.net (198.32.187.119) [5696] 31.558 ms 23.003 ms 23.337 ms 5 bbr01-g4-0.hrnd01.exodus.net (216.33.203.125) [3967] 32.443 ms 24.051 ms 23.436 ms 6 bbr02-p6-0.stng01.exodus.net (209.185.249.137) [3967] 24.382 ms 24.204 ms 24.299 ms 7 dcr04-g10-0.stng01.exodus.net (216.33.96.162) [3967] 24.476 ms * 24.124 ms Netname: ECI-7 Netblock: 216.32.0.0 - 216.35.255.255 Maintainer: ECI [whois.radb.net] route: 216.33.96.0/19 descr: NET-EXODUS-STNG01 origin: AS3967 mnt-by: MAINT-AS3967 changed: radb(a)bengi.exodus.net 20001106 source: RADB Paths: (3 available, best #1, table Default-IP-Routing-Table) 6259 3967 209.115.127.21 from 209.115.127.21 (206.183.226.33) Origin IGP, metric 1010, localpref 100, valid, external, best Community: 13944:6259 Last update: Mon Apr 9 12:12:15 2001 I can find no reason why these would go through enkido.net on the way to 3967. At first, I though this was just a typo in the an-addr records but, after consulting http://www.mae.net/atm/east-addr.html the address is indeed enkido's mae-east connection. Perhaps someone can explain why I'm seeing this path. Problem #2: It looks like Winstar is announcing EP space. BGP routing table entry for 198.32.187.0/24 Paths: (1 available, best #1, table Default-IP-Routing-Table) 13706 5696 66.35.64.10 from 66.35.64.10 (216.226.130.1) Origin IGP, metric 1000, localpref 100, valid, external, best Community: 13944:13706 Last update: Sat Apr 7 13:49:33 2001 --- John Fraizer EnterZone, Inc

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Re: OT-ish: netsol facist contact info?
by troy＠clownhammer.org 12 Apr '01

12 Apr '01

John- Tsk tsk for advertising on Nanog! I believe its against the list Charter. And $24 per domain? Thats highway robbery these days John. If you arent paying $10 or $11 per domain, why register at all? ;-) Check out Dotster, Joker, Ghandi, and a ton of other domain registrars for **cheap** domains. And one can always buy a block from OpenSRS and do as they please. -troy >Um, are you sure you're trying to get through to NANOG? I think you've >been trying to get through to NETSOL. > >If you're having problems with them and are worried about losing a domain >because you can't update information, etc, might I suggest you do what >large quantities of others are doing and simply transfer your domain AWAY >from the low life %^&#ards? > >You can move your domains to a different registrar fairly simply. > > >http://www.lowcostdomains.com/ > http://www.clownhammer.org

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Cincinnati curfew
by Sean Donelan 12 Apr '01

12 Apr '01

The Cincinnati riots haven't really affected the network. However, I did find an ongoing issue with both the Cincinnati Enquirer and Cincinnati Post websites served by ICIX.NET. They've been having sporadic problems. According to other media reports, the web site problems pre-date the riots.

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RE: Qwest (fwd) - the whole story
by Andy Dills 12 Apr '01

12 Apr '01

On Thu, 12 Apr 2001, Daniel Duffy wrote: > The whole story presents an entirely different picture... Yes, below is the followup post I made to inet-access (but decided not to muddy nanog with, mainly because the people who seemed to be most interested were on inet-access). Also of note is that there have already been posts to inet-access that show jake.gull(a)qwest.com sending out the EXACT same spam that William Valentine sent, roughly two weeks ago. How could two different people, one a "senior account executive", one a "major account executive", send out the exact same spam within a span of two weeks, if it was not an official program? I nominate Qwest for the RBL... Andy -------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 19:22:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Andy Dills <andy(a)xecu.net> To: <list(a)inet-access.net> cc: <joe(a)qwest.com> Subject: Full qwest thread Ok, in fairness, and based on the numerous requests for the full thread, below is the full correspondance between myself and the fine sales team at Qwest in California. Here is my reply to the first email (the full text of the email I replied to is quoted in each instance below): -- On Wed, 11 Apr 2001, Valentine, William H wrote: > Who is your current network provider? > > Will Valentine > Qwest Communications > Senior Account Executive > 925-974-4953 You're a senior account executive, and you find spam acceptable? Man, talk about "trying to get your foot in the door only to realize that the door is your mouth". And to top it all off, you're rude about it! "Who is your current network provider?" Like a traceroute or route server won't tell you that information... Please supply me with the contact information for your supervisor. Andy <.sig removed> -- I didn't hear back from Will, but quoted below is my response to the initial, very acceptable reply I received from Jake: -- On Wed, 11 Apr 2001, Gull, Jake R wrote: > > Hey Andy just a short note to contact you in regards to Will Valentines > email. Will is somewhat new to the industry, and is working hard to make > exciting things happen here at Qwest. If Qwest can help you in any way > please advise. > > > > Thank you in advance, > > Jake Gull > Major Account Executive > (925) 974-4924 Direct > (925) 932-0599 Fax > (413) 677-3789 E-Fax Hahahaha...so, when you first start out, you're a 'senior account executive'. Cute. Andy <.sig removed> -- And then he replied with a simple "No reason to be rude", nothing more, nothing less. So here was my final reply, which was a bit over the top, I'll admit. What can I say, I was on a roll, I'm really sick of sales people emailing me, and let's face it, this is Qwest we're talking about: -- On Wed, 11 Apr 2001, Gull, Jake R wrote: > No reason to be rude. > Ha! No reason to be so amazingly disengenuous either. "Senior Account Executive"...does that mean senior in high school? Or is it Qwest policy to make green sales droids "Senior Account Executives"? I find it way more likely that just like at McDonalds, "large" is really a "medium", and "super size" is "large"; "Senior Account Executive" means "Order Taker with spamming privs" and "Major Account Executive" means "Account Executive". I'm sure if I talk to the "Godlike Account Executive" I'll find an actual Senior Account Executive. I mean, seriously, call me when your company gets half a clue. I know your networking people might have a quarter of a clue between them (however you might want to let them know that fiber is useless without decent peering), so you'll really need to pick up the slack in sales. Andy -- And then, finally, the literary master that is Jake Gull replies: -- On Wed, 11 Apr 2001, Gull, Jake R wrote: > Wow, > > Pretty big words from a guy that is part owner of a "mom and pop" > internet provider.. How many employees do you have this week? Ten? > Eleven? The world is your oyster Andy go get em pal. It is pretty > hilarious, when I contacted one of your employee's today and asked if > Excunet was a publicly traded company, her reply, "what does that > mean"? Where did you get that one Burger King? (I'll bet the rest of > the Excunet gang is about as sharp as a marble) I was thinking of > investing a $100. in your company, but I wouldn't want you sharp "data > guru's" to mistake my action as a hostile takeover. Watch out > Microsoft, Execunet is playing hardball. Hi from California, where the > big dog's play. Just do me one favor Andy... STAY ON THE PORCH. > > Have a super day. And you do so as well. I'm in the process of forwarding your reply to inet-access, nanog, and your supervisors. Good luck in the unemployment line! Andy -- I'm personally not offended or bent out of shape; turn about is fair play. However, if _I_ found out that one of my representatives was emailing potential customers this way, there would be severe consequences. I mean, even if the content didn't piss me off, the poor grammar and format would. So, I thought I would pass it along ;> Andy xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Andy Dills 301-682-9972 Xecunet, LLC www.xecu.net xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Dialup * Webhosting * E-Commerce * High-Speed Access

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RE: Router Servers in a lab
by Yosi Yarchi 12 Apr '01

12 Apr '01

Sorry, I forgot the files Best Regards, Yosi Yarchi KereniX Data-Aware Optical NetworksTM ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------ Yosi Yarchi http://www.kerenix.com Phone: +972-3-9050783 Mobile: 972-58-512783 Fax: +972-3-9347720 mailto:yosi_yarchi@kerenix.com > 70 Pinsker St., Petach-Tikva 49221 ISRAEL ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------ > -----Original Message----- > From: Yosi Yarchi > Sent: Thu, April 12, 2001 8:36 PM > To: 'mike harrison'; Barrie Jones > Cc: Perry Jannette; Nanog1 > Subject: RE: Router Servers in a lab > > > Hi > > I'm using mrtd for this purpose exactly. To begin with, I > wrote small PERL script (route_stoa.pl) which takes "show ip > bgp" output of cisco router (default free, found in the > internet) and convert it to mrtd ASCII format. Then I patched > the route_atob (route_atob.c) of mrtd package to read this > file. I used sbgp to inject the full table into my router. > Assuming that the "show ip bgp" dump file is ASproc.pl (this > is actually the name I found it), the command should be > (after trimming ASproc so only pure table exist): > > gunzip --stdout ASproc.pl | route_stoa.pl -i stdin -o stdout > | route_atob -i stdin -o stdout | sbgp -i stdin .... > > Good luck > > Best Regards, > Yosi Yarchi > > KereniX Data-Aware Optical > NetworksTM > -------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------------- > Yosi Yarchi http://www.kerenix.com > Phone: +972-3-9050783 Mobile: 972-58-512783 > Fax: +972-3-9347720 > mailto:yosi_yarchi@kerenix.com > > 70 Pinsker St., Petach-Tikva 49221 ISRAEL > -------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------------- > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: mike harrison [mailto:meuon@highertech.net] > > Sent: Wed, April 11, 2001 6:27 AM > > To: Barrie Jones > > Cc: Perry Jannette; Nanog1 > > Subject: Re: Router Servers in a lab > > > > > > > > > i like mrtd better anyway, since it has the bgpsim tool. > > it allows you > > > to withdraw and announce routes to simulate flapping. has > > frequency, > > > jitter, all that fun stuff. > > > (see www.mrtd.net) > > > > Downloading.... :) --Thanks > > > > >

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RE: Router Servers in a lab
by Yosi Yarchi 12 Apr '01

12 Apr '01

Hi I'm using mrtd for this purpose exactly. To begin with, I wrote small PERL script (route_stoa.pl) which takes "show ip bgp" output of cisco router (default free, found in the internet) and convert it to mrtd ASCII format. Then I patched the route_atob (route_atob.c) of mrtd package to read this file. I used sbgp to inject the full table into my router. Assuming that the "show ip bgp" dump file is ASproc.pl (this is actually the name I found it), the command should be (after trimming ASproc so only pure table exist): gunzip --stdout ASproc.pl | route_stoa.pl -i stdin -o stdout | route_atob -i stdin -o stdout | sbgp -i stdin .... Good luck Best Regards, Yosi Yarchi KereniX Data-Aware Optical NetworksTM ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------ Yosi Yarchi http://www.kerenix.com Phone: +972-3-9050783 Mobile: 972-58-512783 Fax: +972-3-9347720 mailto:yosi_yarchi@kerenix.com > 70 Pinsker St., Petach-Tikva 49221 ISRAEL ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------ > -----Original Message----- > From: mike harrison [mailto:meuon@highertech.net] > Sent: Wed, April 11, 2001 6:27 AM > To: Barrie Jones > Cc: Perry Jannette; Nanog1 > Subject: Re: Router Servers in a lab > > > > > i like mrtd better anyway, since it has the bgpsim tool. > it allows you > > to withdraw and announce routes to simulate flapping. has > frequency, > > jitter, all that fun stuff. > > (see www.mrtd.net) > > Downloading.... :) --Thanks > >

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RE: gigabit router (was Re: Getting a "portable" /19 or /20)
by Kavi, Prabhu 12 Apr '01

12 Apr '01

Vendors have known how to solve this problem for many years. Failure to do so is a poor implementation and has nothing to do with centralized forwarding being better/worse than distributed forwarding. Prabhu ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Prabhu Kavi Phone: 1-978-264-4900 x125 Director, Adv. Prod. Planning Fax: 1-978-264-0671 Tenor Networks Email: prabhu_kavi(a)tenornetworks.com 100 Nagog Park WWW: www.tenornetworks.com Acton, MA 01720 > -----Original Message----- > From: Matt Zimmerman [mailto:mdz@csh.rit.edu] > Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 4:47 PM > To: nanog(a)merit.edu > Subject: Re: gigabit router (was Re: Getting a "portable" /19 or /20) > > > > On Wed, Apr 11, 2001 at 12:26:54AM -0700, David Schwartz wrote: > > > > > Why do you think central fowarding is superior > to distributed > > > > forwarding? > > > > > > Because you will have consistency problem. You are nearly > 100% guaranteed > > > to have them. > > > > > > Alex > > > > Ahh, so that's what you're thinking. > > > > If you have forwarding table F(X) at time X and > forwarding table F(X+1) > > at time X+1, a packet that arrives between times X and X+2 can > > reasonably be forwarded by any of the tables. There is > no special > > sequencing present or required between the packets that > involve routing > > protocols and the data packets. > > I think Alex was referring to internal consistency within the > router (between > linecards), not external consistency. For example, if > linecard X believes that > a packet should be forwarded to linecard Y, but linecard Y's > forwarding table > is older than X's, Y could misforward the packet, causing a > forwarding loop or > a dropped packet. Thus, it can be the case that neither the > old path nor the > new path is taken. > > Yes, there are ways to approach this problem, but it is a problem that > central-forwarding systems will not have. > > > We misroute packets between routers because routing > table updates don't > > happen fast enough. It's not a problem -- IP is > designed to tolerate > > packet losses and has never guaranteed sequencing. > > It is true that IP does not make guarantees about delivery, > but packet loss has > a detrimental effect on performance nonetheless. > > > The added occasional misroutes due to inconsistency will be > > proportional to the ratio of the average network > transport time for a > > routing protocol packet to the average delay in > propogating forwarding > > table changes to a linecard. You do the math. > > I think a more useful model is this: > > S(X) = (% of time that a router X spends in a consistent state) * > (packets/sec through router X) > > For the percentage of packets which will be successfully > routed. The total > end-to-end loss is 1 - S(X)^N for N identical routers. N >= > 20 is not uncommon > these days, and packets/sec gets higher all the time. > > -- > - mdz > >

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RE: gigabit router (was Re: Getting a "portable" /19 or /20)
by Kavi, Prabhu 12 Apr '01

12 Apr '01

Craig did a great job describing the problem and one valid approach to solving it. There are other valid approaches as well. Creating modern packet forwarding devices is based upon learning what did not work well in previous incarnations (such as how to synchronize these forwarding tables) and elmininating the problems (Too little bandwidth in the control plane? Add bandwidth) in the next version. Many vendors learned about the synchronized forwarding table problem years ago, either with experience on their own routers, or by getting talent from places (like BBN) that previously dealt with this. And any recent system architecture created by competent engineers should not have this problem. Prabhu > -----Original Message----- > From: Craig Partridge [mailto:craig@aland.bbn.com] > Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 10:16 AM > To: Matt Zimmerman > Cc: nanog(a)merit.edu > Subject: Re: gigabit router (was Re: Getting a "portable" /19 or /20) > > > > > In message <20010412100249.B15380(a)alcor.net>, Matt Zimmerman writes: > > >It _does_ show that distributed forwarding will be > significantly more complex > >and more difficult to implement. I am not arguing that > distributed forwarding > >is a bad thing; on the contrary, it has a logical and > demonstrated performance > >benefit. However, it comes with a cost in overall system complexity. > > Having implemented distributed forwarding once, and consulted on it a > couple of times, the answer is that it adds complexity but not where > you'd think. > > You usually only have to generate one forwarding table (the outbound > interface through which you send the packet doesn't change > depending on > whether you make the decision centrally or at the inbound interfaces). > You can try to reduce the size of the forwarding table by > excising stuff > (e.g., info on VPNs that don't run through that interface) > but forwarding > tables are pretty small so you don't have to do that if you > don't want to. > > Provided you don't do something stupid and have the outbound interface > re-evaluate the inbound interface's routing decision, then > all you need > is a way to copy the forwarding table to each interface (and if the > interfaces receive the table at slightly staggered times that's OK, > because they don't have to be perfectly consistent). > > Now I just said "all you need" -- that's a lie :-). The > major complexity is > actually getting the forwarding tables out to the inbound interfaces. > There are at least two issues: (a) bandwidth [a small > forwarding table, > times 32 or 64 ports rapidly becomes big, especially for the control > data path which is typically short on bandwidth] and (b) > finding a way to > update the forwarding table in a way that is not too > disruptive to forwarding > [incremental updates are often mindbreakingly hard to do, esp. if the > update changes the table size, or invalidates some entries -- you can > have the forwarding table doing housecleaning instead of forwarding]. > We used a bank swap -- we had an active forwarding table and > an inactive > one. Updates were sent to the inactive bank and when you had a fully > updated bank, you send a message to the forwarding processor saying > "swap banks." And, of course, the software to track which forwarding > engine had which bank live and the current state of each > bank's updates > got a little exciting. > > In short, generating the tables is easy, consistency isn't an issue, > but getting the tables to the right place, in a timely > manner, and without > getting confused and trashing a table, is a challenge. > > Thanks! > > Craig > >

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Synthetic BGP routes in a lab
by Perry Jannette 12 Apr '01

12 Apr '01

Yesterday I sent out a message inquiring about a method to inject BGP routes into a lab network. Here is a follow-up message on what I learned. Thanks to everyone that replied. There are several methods to inject synthetic routes into a lab network. 1. MRT (Multi-Threaded Routing Toolkit) is a sweet of tools that allow you to perform several different functions with BGP. a. MRTd - an IPv4/IPv6 routing daemon b. SBGP - a BGP speaker and listener, no policy routing, etc... c. BGPsim - a BGP simulator used to inject instability into the BGP network d. route_atob - converts ASCII messages to MRT format e. route_btoa - converts binary MRT messages to ASCII format Check it out at www.mrtd.net. You can get a BGP table (sh ip bgp) from a route server and format it for use with MRT. Then inject these routes with SBGP. 2. Smartbits using SmartFlow I have not attempted either of these methods yet, but MRT seems like a fairly easy solution. Perry

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RE: OT-ish: netsol facist contact info?
by Cerqua, Toby 12 Apr '01

12 Apr '01

*slap forehead* not nanog. netsol. right. -----Original Message----- From: John Fraizer [mailto:nanog@Overkill.EnterZone.Net] Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 9:37 AM To: Cerqua, Toby Cc: 'nanog(a)merit.edu' Subject: Re: OT-ish: netsol facist contact info? On Thu, 12 Apr 2001, Cerqua, Toby wrote: > > i've been trying to get through to nanog for months now to do a simple > address change. of course i used their form correctly -- several times, in > fact -- and i've exchanged emails with some lackey on the problem. once i > made the problem clear, communications dropped off sharply. anyone know a > contact with a clue? i'd rather get this done *before* the time runs out and > i lose the name. > > thanks much. of course, please respond off-list. > > -t > Um, are you sure you're trying to get through to NANOG? I think you've been trying to get through to NETSOL. If you're having problems with them and are worried about losing a domain because you can't update information, etc, might I suggest you do what large quantities of others are doing and simply transfer your domain AWAY from the low life %^&#ards? You can move your domains to a different registrar fairly simply. http://www.lowcostdomains.com/ --- John Fraizer EnterZone, Inc

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