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SEMI-OT: NOCs and networking students
by Andrew Dorsett 17 Apr '01

17 Apr '01

Hey, I've been lurking for several months, reading and absorbing from the vast knowledge on this list. I got to admit that I have learned a lot about the innards of BGP and network operations. Plus I'm building my resource list of people who can answer questions. :) (I'm a college student, employee of an ISP and network guy, won some national awards for Internetworking) So if you have posted, thanks for the information, it's nice to actually learn something for a change....unlike in college.... Now here is my semi-ot post... I am also very involved in a Cisco Networking Academy in a high-school in Greensboro, NC. I helped push the program to what it is today, while I was a high school student. I am hoping that someone on this list would like to teach these kids some and offer field trip opportunities. Would anyone mind hosting a group of students to tour a NOC or a datacenter, somewhere in NC? I only know of C&W having a NOC in Raleigh, if I remember correctly. But I'm open to anything, and I'm sure they would be also. Thanks, Andrew --- <zerocool(a)netpath.net> http://www.andrewsworld.net/ ICQ: 2895251 Cisco Certified Network Associate Development Assistant: Netpath/Stratonet, Inc. (http://www.netpath.net/) Email: dorsett(a)netpath.net "Learn from the mistakes of others. You won't live long enough to make all of them yourself."

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Re: "Cisco MPLS-based VPNs" & BGP Stability
by Robert Raszuk 17 Apr '01

17 Apr '01

Hi Dave, > It raises the question of whether or not you put your VPN's BGP routes on the > same peering infrastructure that you use for your EF traffic. First thx for your mail. Second reg your inter-as design let me explain a bit more what I meant by saying easily :). The most scalable soultion for inter-AS support of mpls-vpns you get by direct vpnv4 multihop sessions betwen peering ASs vpnv4 relfectors. So the vpnv4 prefix exchanges can be totally still separated from any ipv4 peerings. For this to work you need additionally: * exchange prefixes to your PEs next hops with labels between your ASs, * disable next hop insertion on the EBGP session from RRs. In this desgin you still don't need to have any intersection of vpnv4 and ipv4 routes. > Merging your isolated VPN environment with the Internet in any way could have Well maybe with an exception that for a small number of VPNs merging global Internet table with MPLS-VPNs customers on the same PEs does not reduce your ipv4 stability at all. So if you accept this the financial aspect of building isolated l3 vpns while maintaining the same level of ipv4 characteristics can be easily achived by adding one or few (depending on the number of vpn customer's routes) RRs. R. > Dave Siegel wrote: > > On Tue, Apr 17, 2001 at 02:04:48PM -0700, Robert Raszuk reportedly typed: > > Danny, > > > > > which clearly impacts unicast stuff as well. > > > > As a matter of fact a lot of today's mpls-vpn deployments use different > > set of relflector's hardware for vpnv4 routes plus are using default > > route for providing internet access for mpls-vpn customers so I don't > > really see how those SPs/ISPs would impact with mpls-vpns any ipv4 bgp > > Internet infrastructure or bgp stability. > > Indeed, the VPN infrastructure is a TE overlay on your MPLS network, and the > BGP information stays at the edge. This design does not, by itself, impact > the BGP stability of your (EF) Internet product. > > > Total AF isolation can be also > > easily achived even for inter-as mpls-vpns as well with correctly > > architected design. > > I wouldn't say "easily" acheived, but it does need to be correctly architected, > especially an inter-provider MPLS VPN. > > It raises the question of whether or not you put your VPN's BGP routes on the > same peering infrastructure that you use for your EF traffic. In a purely theoretical > world, perhaps this is trivial to establish QoS on network borders, and exchange > routes for EF class (Internet) along with your AF (business/VPN), but this might > not be so practical in reality, at least not today. > > In a purely isolated design, VPN routers on the VPN overlay mesh would be > designated as gateways to other providers, dedicated to AF, and dedicated to > interconnecting with other providers for VPNs only. Designing this is pretty easy, > but building this dedicated infrastructure for inter-provider VPN takes time, money, > business cases, and new contract negotiations. > > Merging your isolated VPN environment with the Internet in any way could have > disasterous effects on your ability to deliver on AF traffic garantees, even > with QoS enabled. > > At least for now, "don't cross the streams." > > Dave > > > R. > > > > > > > Danny McPherson wrote: > > > > > > I thought this might be of interest to folks here, it looks > > > strikingly similar to draft-behringer-mpls-security-00.txt, > > > which has uni-directionally discussed on the IETF's PPVPN > > > mailing list a while back. > > > > > > I think a more pragmatic approach could have actually been > > > useful, however, this would likely require a non-commissioned > > > perspective. IMO, things like "Hiding the Service Provider > > > Core Network" aren't very practical. > > > > > > I'd also like to get feedback on how folks see things like > > > MPLS/BGP VPNs impacting Internet route table stability and > > > convergence. After all, simply because it's not necessarily > > > envisioned (by some) to be deployed inter-domain, it does > > > make heavy use of BGP, which clearly impacts unicast stuff as > > > well. > > > > > > -danny > > > > > > ------- Forwarded Message > > > > > > Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 12:08:01 -0400 > > > To: mpls-ops(a)mplsrc.com > > > From: Christopher Lewis <chrlewis(a)cisco.com> > > > Subject: Security on MPLS VPNs > > > > > > The Mier group released a report that showed MPLS VPNs offer the same level > > > of security that frame relay and ATM networks do. That report is available at > > > http://www.mier.com/reports/cisco/MPLS-VPNs.pdf > > > > > > - ------- > > > The MPLS-OPS Mailing List > > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://www.mplsrc.com/mplsops.shtml > > > Archive: http://www.mplsrc.com/mpls-ops_archive.shtml > > > > > > ------- End of Forwarded Message > > -- > Dave Siegel > These opinions may not necessarily reflect that of my employer > HOME 520-579-0450 dave at siegelie dot com > WORK 520-572-9041 dsiegel at gblx dot net > Director, Global IP Network Design, Global Crossing

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"Cisco MPLS-based VPNs" & BGP Stability
by Danny McPherson 17 Apr '01

17 Apr '01

I thought this might be of interest to folks here, it looks strikingly similar to draft-behringer-mpls-security-00.txt, which has uni-directionally discussed on the IETF's PPVPN mailing list a while back. I think a more pragmatic approach could have actually been useful, however, this would likely require a non-commissioned perspective. IMO, things like "Hiding the Service Provider Core Network" aren't very practical. I'd also like to get feedback on how folks see things like MPLS/BGP VPNs impacting Internet route table stability and convergence. After all, simply because it's not necessarily envisioned (by some) to be deployed inter-domain, it does make heavy use of BGP, which clearly impacts unicast stuff as well. -danny ------- Forwarded Message Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 12:08:01 -0400 To: mpls-ops(a)mplsrc.com From: Christopher Lewis <chrlewis(a)cisco.com> Subject: Security on MPLS VPNs The Mier group released a report that showed MPLS VPNs offer the same level of security that frame relay and ATM networks do. That report is available at http://www.mier.com/reports/cisco/MPLS-VPNs.pdf - ------- The MPLS-OPS Mailing List Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://www.mplsrc.com/mplsops.shtml Archive: http://www.mplsrc.com/mpls-ops_archive.shtml ------- End of Forwarded Message

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Anyone else experiencing major problems with Verizon in PA/NJ today?
by alex＠yuriev.com 17 Apr '01

17 Apr '01

Since about 11am we have had all of fast-packet based services flap dozens of time, and about 50 circuits that have Verizon tails from other carriers go into constant flap state. The Verizon's callcenters are clearly overloaded with some of the calls getting fast busy and hold-times close of over 1 hour... Worldcom is saying that there are some major problems at Wayne, PA switch center of Verizon that are causing it... Alex

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RE: What is the number of a clueful Sales agent at C&W ?
by Dee McKinney 17 Apr '01

17 Apr '01

Assuming you are a man of faith, this requires divine intervention. First God would have to make one and place him near a phone. -----Original Message----- From: Mr. James W. Laferriere [mailto:babydr@baby-dragons.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2001 8:42 AM To: nanog(a)merit.edu Subject: What is the number of a clueful Sales agent at C&W ? Hello All , Subject about says it all . One of my compadre's has been stuck to the phone with not one single clue from anyone that has answered . Fyi , Looking for oc-3 connectivity . Tia , JimL +----------------------------------------------------------------+ | James W. Laferriere | System Techniques | Give me VMS | | Network Engineer | 25416 22nd So | Give me Linux | | babydr(a)baby-dragons.com | DesMoines WA 98198 | only on AXP | +----------------------------------------------------------------+

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BGP speaking AT&T engineer
by alex＠yuriev.com 17 Apr '01

17 Apr '01

Hello, Does anyone know of any BGP-speaking AT&T engineer? For last few hours their NOC had been unsuccessfully trying to find such person to fix what appears to be a problem inside AT&T's network... Thanks, Alex

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Re: CA rolling blackout notification service
by Sean Donelan 17 Apr '01

17 Apr '01

On Mon, 16 April 2001, "J.D. Falk" wrote: > http://www.sfgate.com/newsletters/energy/ Depending on who you believe, this summer will have 34 days (state officials) to 50 days (industry officials) of power interruptions and rolling blackouts in California. http://biz.yahoo.com/st/010416/23649.html Because the transmission grid is shared, even if you have long-term power contracts with suppliers, your electric power may still be interrupted to maintain the grid's integrity. The North American Electric Reliability Council will release their summer 2001 reliability assessment in late May or June.

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CA rolling blackout notification service
by J.D. Falk 17 Apr '01

17 Apr '01

http://www.sfgate.com/newsletters/energy/ -- J.D. Falk "A well-balanced breakfast is an important start <jdfalk(a)cybernothing.org> to a good ressurection." -- Kristie Home

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Re: Getting a "portable" /19 or /20
by Richard A. Steenbergen 16 Apr '01

16 Apr '01

On Tue, Apr 10, 2001 at 01:29:25PM -0700, Majdi S. Abbas wrote: > > On Tue, Apr 10, 2001 at 02:22:45PM -0600, Aaron Dewell wrote: > > Well, I did say up to a 7200, and a 7200 won't exactly forward an > > OC-192 line rate. No interface cards either. > > Precisely my point...no interface cards. Yes, you can route > ethernet, and maybe even a T1 or two...you can't do serious T1 or DS3 > aggregation or anything larger than an OC-3 or so with that PC. There is absolutily no (technical) reason that you cannot successfully "route" gigabit ethernet at line rate using off the shelf and extremely cheap PC technology and a bit of clue. Note that this specifically does not cover a Linux "router", as denoted by the "a bit of clue" clause. Also note that Zebra is stable and useful only when it is doing nothing or next to nothing. Do not assume that because you have never seen something done [well], or because you lack the knowledge to do something [well], that it cannot be done [well]. This also applies to accepting vendor excuses for what can or cannot be done. -- Richard A Steenbergen <ras(a)e-gerbil.net> http://www.e-gerbil.net/ras PGP Key ID: 0x138EA177 (67 29 D7 BC E8 18 3E DA B2 46 B3 D8 14 36 FE B6)

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RE: Qwest (fwd)
by Andy Dills 16 Apr '01

16 Apr '01

Hey, just for kicks I thought I'd forward this along. A little history: I got contacted today by some droid from qwest saying "Who is your network provider?" That's it, 100% of the email. So I wrote back busting his chops a little bit, and his boss writes me trying to cover his ass, and I bust his bosses chops a little, and then I get the following forwarded reply. Anybody know some contacts at qwest who would like to see this? Andy xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Andy Dills 301-682-9972 Xecunet, LLC www.xecu.net xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Dialup * Webhosting * E-Commerce * High-Speed Access ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 17:07:41 -0400 From: "Gull, Jake R" <jake.gull(a)qwest.com> To: 'Andy Dills' <andy(a)xecu.net> Subject: RE: Qwest Wow, Pretty big words from a guy that is part owner of a "mom and pop" internet provider.. How many employees do you have this week? Ten? Eleven? The world is your oyster Andy go get em pal. It is pretty hilarious, when I contacted one of your employee's today and asked if Excunet was a publicly traded company, her reply, "what does that mean"? Where did you get that one Burger King? (I'll bet the rest of the Excunet gang is about as sharp as a marble) I was thinking of investing a $100. in your company, but I wouldn't want you sharp "data guru's" to mistake my action as a hostile takeover. Watch out Microsoft, Execunet is playing hardball. Hi from California, where the big dog's play. Just do me one favor Andy... STAY ON THE PORCH. Have a super day.

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