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Re: North America not interested in IP V6
by Michael.Dillon＠radianz.com 01 Aug '03

01 Aug '03

>I have been plotting the IPv6 ASNs for some time. These should be the >ISPs running IPv6. See: >http://www.nlnetlabs.nl/ipv6/measurements/index.html It would be interesting to see an analysis that combines this data with Geoff Huston's IPv4 analysis http://www.potaroo.net/ispcolumn/2003-07-v4-address-lifetime/ale.html and see if we can predict the point at which the number of IPv6 addresses deployed begins to exceed the number of IPv4 addresses deployed? I realize that the IPv6 analysis is routes only, but one should be able to determine how many addresses are available in each ASN. One could reasonably assume that at the point where the Internet shifts to IPv6 as the core protocol, more than half of the interfaces with an IPv4 address will also have an IPv6 address. So to get to that point, one could make some assumptions about the allocation of IPv6 /48's based on the observed trends in IPv4 /32's. I'm not sure where one would take this, but I think a lot of people would be interested in seeing some type of well-presented analysis of these questions. --Michael Dillon

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The Cidr Report
by cidr-report＠potaroo.net 01 Aug '03

01 Aug '03

This report has been generated at Fri Aug 1 21:47:29 2003 AEST. The report analyses the BGP Routing Table of an AS4637 (Reach) router and generates a report on aggregation potential within the table. Check http://www.cidr-report.org/as4637 for a current version of this report. Recent Table History Date Prefixes CIDR Agg 25-07-03 123891 88138 26-07-03 123856 88157 27-07-03 123966 88143 28-07-03 123954 88176 29-07-03 124038 88237 30-07-03 124119 88201 31-07-03 123983 88248 01-08-03 123769 88232 AS Summary 15543 Number of ASes in routing system 6147 Number of ASes announcing only one prefix 1473 Largest number of prefixes announced by an AS AS701 : ALTERNET-AS UUNET Technologies, Inc. 73223680 Largest address span announced by an AS (/32s) AS568 : SUMNET-AS DISO-UNRRA Aggregation Summary The algorithm used in this report proposes aggregation only when there is a precise match using the AS path, so as to preserve traffic transit policies. Aggregation is also proposed across non-advertised address space ('holes'). --- 01Aug03 --- ASnum NetsNow NetsAggr NetGain % Gain Description Table 123844 88259 35585 28.7% All ASes AS7132 851 237 614 72.2% SBIS-AS SBC Internet Services - Southwest AS701 1473 1035 438 29.7% ALTERNET-AS UUNET Technologies, Inc. AS4323 616 179 437 70.9% TW-COMM Time Warner Communications, Inc. AS7018 1359 951 408 30.0% ATT-INTERNET4 AT&T WorldNet Services AS7843 604 225 379 62.7% ADELPHIA-AS Adelphia Corp. AS3908 894 528 366 40.9% SUPERNETASBLK SuperNet, Inc. AS6197 557 216 341 61.2% BATI-ATL BellSouth Network Solutions, Inc AS11305 358 38 320 89.4% INTERLAND-NET1 Interland Incorporated AS1221 1056 743 313 29.6% ASN-TELSTRA Telstra Pty Ltd AS6198 500 193 307 61.4% BATI-MIA BellSouth Network Solutions, Inc AS1239 973 676 297 30.5% SPRINTLINK Sprint AS4355 402 112 290 72.1% ERMS-EARTHLNK EARTHLINK, INC AS6347 359 93 266 74.1% DIAMOND SAVVIS Communications Corporation AS25844 257 9 248 96.5% SKADDEN1 Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher & Flom LLP AS27364 317 84 233 73.5% ACS-INTERNET Armstrong Cable Services AS17676 250 24 226 90.4% GIGAINFRA Softbank BB Corp. AS22773 234 14 220 94.0% CCINET-2 Cox Communications Inc. Atlanta AS209 524 310 214 40.8% ASN-QWEST Qwest AS705 482 305 177 36.7% ALTERNET-AS UUNET Technologies, Inc. AS6327 199 25 174 87.4% SHAWFIBER Shaw Fiberlink Limited AS2386 398 229 169 42.5% INS-AS AT&T Data Communications Services AS2048 255 88 167 65.5% LANET-1 State of Louisiana AS17557 308 145 163 52.9% PKTELECOM-AS-AP Pakistan Telecom AS14654 162 3 159 98.1% WAYPORT Wayport AS6140 291 137 154 52.9% IMPSAT-USA ImpSat AS690 435 287 148 34.0% MERIT-AS-27 Merit Network Inc. AS3602 229 83 146 63.8% SPRINT-CA-AS Sprint Canada Inc. AS20115 472 326 146 30.9% CHARTER-NET-HKY-NC Charter Communications AS6517 203 63 140 69.0% YIPESCOM Yipes Communications, Inc. AS9583 241 101 140 58.1% SATYAMNET-AS Satyam Infoway Ltd., Total 15259 7459 7800 51.1% Top 30 total Possible Bogus Routes 10.5.5.0/24 AS4637 REACH Reach Network Border AS 24.119.0.0/16 AS11492 CABLEONE CABLE ONE 61.12.32.0/24 AS7545 TPG-INTERNET-AP TPG Internet Pty Ltd 61.12.34.0/24 AS7545 TPG-INTERNET-AP TPG Internet Pty Ltd 64.30.64.0/19 AS14900 USLEC-CORP-1 USLEC Corp. 66.41.192.0/18 AS13367 ATT-BBND-B AT&T Broadband 132.0.0.0/10 AS568 SUMNET-AS DISO-UNRRA 137.0.0.0/13 AS568 SUMNET-AS DISO-UNRRA 138.136.0.0/13 AS568 SUMNET-AS DISO-UNRRA 140.240.0.0/13 AS1 GNTY-1 Genuity 158.0.0.0/13 AS568 SUMNET-AS DISO-UNRRA 165.212.0.0/16 AS7424 USANET USA.Net 166.16.0.0/16 AS7132 SBIS-AS SBC Internet Services - Southwest 192.43.230.0/24 AS4738 SAARDNET-AS South Australian Academic Research and Development Network 192.44.0.0/19 AS702 ALTERNET-AS UUNET Technologies, Inc. 192.83.16.0/20 AS5515 SONERA-GLOBAL-IP Sonera Solution Autonomous System 192.83.32.0/19 AS5515 SONERA-GLOBAL-IP Sonera Solution Autonomous System 192.83.64.0/19 AS5515 SONERA-GLOBAL-IP Sonera Solution Autonomous System 192.83.96.0/22 AS5515 SONERA-GLOBAL-IP Sonera Solution Autonomous System 192.83.100.0/24 AS5515 SONERA-GLOBAL-IP Sonera Solution Autonomous System 192.119.135.0/24 AS270 PSCNI-AS National Aeronautics and Space Administration 192.124.252.0/22 AS680 AS680 DFN-IP service G-WiN 192.135.50.0/24 AS7018 ATT-INTERNET4 AT&T WorldNet Services 192.136.79.0/24 AS719 AS719 LANLINK autonomous system 192.153.136.0/21 AS568 SUMNET-AS DISO-UNRRA 192.153.144.0/21 AS568 SUMNET-AS DISO-UNRRA 192.172.0.0/19 AS568 SUMNET-AS DISO-UNRRA 192.188.208.0/20 AS568 SUMNET-AS DISO-UNRRA 192.228.0.0/16 AS4637 REACH Reach Network Border AS 192.243.32.0/23 AS2044 PALIN-AS Palin Aquisitions Inc. 193.0.0.0/21 AS3333 RIPE-NCC-AS RIPE NCC 193.108.205.0/24 AS21006 PDR-AS PDR AS for announcing own routes 193.149.128.0/18 AS8220 COLT COLT Internet - International Backbone - www.colt.net 193.222.192.0/19 AS21102 ASN-KIOSKAG KIOSK Autonomous System 193.242.80.0/20 AS286 AS286 KPN Eurorings Backbone AS 194.13.0.0/17 AS1103 SURFNET-NL SURFnet, The Netherlands 194.42.208.0/20 AS702 ALTERNET-AS UUNET Technologies, Inc. 195.80.233.0/24 AS12654 AS12654 RIPE NCC RIS Project. 195.85.220.0/24 AS8196 CLARANETDE Claranet Deutschland GmbH 198.23.26.0/24 AS4390 BELLATLANTIC-COM Bell Atlantic, Inc. 198.97.72.0/21 AS568 SUMNET-AS DISO-UNRRA 198.97.80.0/20 AS568 SUMNET-AS DISO-UNRRA 198.97.88.0/24 AS89 NUSC-CSTLNET-AS Naval Underwater Systems Center 198.97.192.0/20 AS568 SUMNET-AS DISO-UNRRA 198.97.240.0/20 AS568 SUMNET-AS DISO-UNRRA 198.98.8.0/21 AS3701 NERONET Oregon Joint Graduate Schools of Engineering 198.101.4.0/22 AS568 SUMNET-AS DISO-UNRRA 198.136.32.0/20 AS19329 MCNET Martin County Board of County Commissioners 198.144.32.0/19 AS3998 CITY-NET CityNet, Inc. 198.161.87.0/24 AS6539 GROUPTLCOM GT Group Telecom Services Corp. 198.161.165.0/24 AS852 ASN852 Telus Advanced Communications 198.163.155.0/24 AS684 MBNET-AS Manitoba Regional Network 198.167.0.0/16 AS7456 INTERHOP Interhop Network SERVICES Inc. 198.167.163.0/24 AS15290 ATTCA-15290 AT&T Canada Telecom Services Company 198.168.0.0/16 AS701 ALTERNET-AS UUNET Technologies, Inc. 198.169.0.0/16 AS803 SASKTEL SaskTel 198.232.133.0/24 AS23075 SKOTOS-AS Skotos Tech, Inc 199.10.0.0/16 AS568 SUMNET-AS DISO-UNRRA 199.60.0.0/20 AS271 BCNET-AS University of British Columbia 199.79.32.0/20 AS3701 NERONET Oregon Joint Graduate Schools of Engineering 199.84.0.0/16 AS701 ALTERNET-AS UUNET Technologies, Inc. 199.114.0.0/18 AS568 SUMNET-AS DISO-UNRRA 199.114.0.0/21 AS568 SUMNET-AS DISO-UNRRA 199.114.128.0/18 AS568 SUMNET-AS DISO-UNRRA 199.114.140.0/24 AS3544 ITSDN-U7 DISA/UNRRA 199.120.32.0/19 AS16582 NEXTLEVELINTERNET NEXTLEVEL INTERNET, INC. 199.121.0.0/16 AS568 SUMNET-AS DISO-UNRRA 199.123.16.0/20 AS568 SUMNET-AS DISO-UNRRA 199.123.80.0/21 AS568 SUMNET-AS DISO-UNRRA 199.189.32.0/19 AS7332 IQUEST-AS IQuest Internet 199.202.0.0/16 AS701 ALTERNET-AS UUNET Technologies, Inc. 201.118.64.0/20 AS19151 WEBUSENET-1 WebUseNet Corp 202.3.144.0/24 AS17557 PKTELECOM-AS-AP Pakistan Telecom 202.3.145.0/24 AS17557 PKTELECOM-AS-AP Pakistan Telecom 202.3.146.0/24 AS17557 PKTELECOM-AS-AP Pakistan Telecom 202.3.147.0/24 AS17557 PKTELECOM-AS-AP Pakistan Telecom 202.3.148.0/24 AS17557 PKTELECOM-AS-AP Pakistan Telecom 202.3.149.0/24 AS17557 PKTELECOM-AS-AP Pakistan Telecom 202.3.150.0/24 AS17557 PKTELECOM-AS-AP Pakistan Telecom 202.3.151.0/24 AS17557 PKTELECOM-AS-AP Pakistan Telecom 202.3.152.0/24 AS17557 PKTELECOM-AS-AP Pakistan Telecom 202.3.153.0/24 AS17557 PKTELECOM-AS-AP Pakistan Telecom 202.3.154.0/24 AS17557 PKTELECOM-AS-AP Pakistan Telecom 202.3.155.0/24 AS17557 PKTELECOM-AS-AP Pakistan Telecom 202.3.156.0/24 AS17557 PKTELECOM-AS-AP Pakistan Telecom 202.3.157.0/24 AS17557 PKTELECOM-AS-AP Pakistan Telecom 202.3.158.0/24 AS17557 PKTELECOM-AS-AP Pakistan Telecom 202.3.159.0/24 AS17557 PKTELECOM-AS-AP Pakistan Telecom 202.4.252.0/22 AS4808 CNCGROUP-BJ CNCGROUP-BJ 202.4.255.0/24 AS4799 UNSPECIFIED Ji Tong Communications Co., Ltd. 202.6.96.0/24 AS4761 INDOSAT1-AP INDOSATNET-ASN 202.6.97.0/24 AS4761 INDOSAT1-AP INDOSATNET-ASN 202.6.99.0/24 AS4761 INDOSAT1-AP INDOSATNET-ASN 202.10.72.0/21 AS9716 AUSTAR-AS-AP Austar Entertainement 202.44.112.0/20 AS17458 CWNETDG-IO-AP Cable and Wireless 202.122.76.0/24 AS17553 TIMELESS-AP System Integration provider 202.130.224.0/20 AS4808 CNCGROUP-BJ CNCGROUP-BJ 202.130.240.0/21 AS4808 CNCGROUP-BJ CNCGROUP-BJ 202.130.248.0/22 AS4812 CHINANET-SH-AP China Telecom (Group) 202.130.252.0/22 AS4812 CHINANET-SH-AP China Telecom (Group) 202.136.254.0/23 AS4808 CNCGROUP-BJ CNCGROUP-BJ 202.136.254.0/24 AS4808 CNCGROUP-BJ CNCGROUP-BJ 202.142.130.0/23 AS17820 DIL-AP DIRECT INTERNET LTD. 202.142.132.0/22 AS17820 DIL-AP DIRECT INTERNET LTD. 202.143.48.0/21 AS4795 INDOSAT2-ID-AP INDOSATNET-ASN 202.143.56.0/21 AS4795 INDOSAT2-ID-AP INDOSATNET-ASN 202.161.0.0/19 AS10097 FLOWCOM flow communications level 2 541 kent st sydney nsw 2000 202.161.0.0/21 AS4634 -No Whois Entry- 202.161.8.0/21 AS4634 -No Whois Entry- 202.164.192.0/19 AS7599 IPXC-AS-AP IP Exchange 202.165.0.0/19 AS9443 INTERNETPRIMUS-AS-AP Primus Telecommunications 203.62.0.0/17 AS7572 AARNET-ACT-RNO Australian Academic and Reasearch Network (AARNet) 203.76.128.0/24 AS9729 IS-AP iAdvantage Limited 203.76.224.0/24 AS9549 COMDEK-ISP-AS-AP Comdek ISP 203.78.125.0/24 AS17653 PCM-HK-AP Pacific Century Matrix 203.86.2.0/23 AS4058 APNIC-4058 Asia Pacific Network Information Centre 203.90.192.0/20 AS9658 ETPI-IDS-AS-AP Eastern Telecoms Phils., Inc. 203.135.99.0/24 AS2687 IBM-MMD-AS IBM 203.135.224.0/19 AS4058 APNIC-4058 Asia Pacific Network Information Centre 203.162.192.0/18 AS7643 VNN-AS-AP Vietnam Posts and Telecommunications (VNPT) 203.171.96.0/19 AS703 ALTERNET-AS UUNET Technologies, Inc. 203.171.102.0/24 AS703 ALTERNET-AS UUNET Technologies, Inc. 204.19.224.0/19 AS816 UUNET-AS4 UUNET Technologies, Inc. 204.29.189.0/24 AS11755 WAYMARKCOMM Waymark Internet Services, Inc. 204.52.232.0/24 AS7177 DFWNET DFW Internet Services, Inc. 204.89.225.0/24 AS2495 KANREN Kansas Research and Education Network 204.154.240.0/21 AS11572 MEDIACOM Mediacom,llc / RidgeNet 204.192.0.0/10 AS3644 SPR-VPN Sprint 204.194.110.0/23 AS10588 ICSNET Intelligent Computer Solutions, Inc 205.150.0.0/15 AS701 ALTERNET-AS UUNET Technologies, Inc. 206.41.32.0/19 AS14824 NEWSOUTH NewSouth Communications Corp. 206.81.187.0/24 AS19194 JOVITA Sentris Network LLC 206.82.64.0/18 AS7029 ALLTELNET Alltel Information Services, Inc. 206.108.34.0/24 AS852 ASN852 Telus Advanced Communications 206.108.35.0/24 AS852 ASN852 Telus Advanced Communications 206.126.0.0/19 AS5750 FLEXNET-HAWAII FlexNet Inc. 206.167.57.0/24 AS376 RISQ-AS Reseau Interordinateurs Scientique Quebecois (RISQ) 206.191.64.0/18 AS15290 ATTCA-15290 AT&T Canada Telecom Services Company 206.251.69.0/24 AS27429 TIL Telesat International Ltd. 207.47.39.0/24 AS816 UUNET-AS4 UUNET Technologies, Inc. 207.92.0.0/14 AS2551 ICG ICG NetAhead, Inc. 207.162.192.0/19 AS4589 EASYNET Easynet Group Plc 207.231.96.0/19 AS11194 NUNETPA NuNet Inc 208.65.232.0/23 AS701 ALTERNET-AS UUNET Technologies, Inc. 208.81.187.0/24 AS19194 JOVITA Sentris Network LLC 208.104.103.0/24 AS1239 SPRINTLINK Sprint 209.104.252.0/22 AS12030 PACIFIC-ONLINE-PON Pacific Online Services 209.108.0.0/14 AS2551 ICG ICG NetAhead, Inc. 209.151.128.0/19 AS816 UUNET-AS4 UUNET Technologies, Inc. 209.160.73.0/24 AS13415 LUMIX Lumix Communications, Inc. 209.160.209.0/24 AS13415 LUMIX Lumix Communications, Inc. 209.169.219.0/24 AS189 GENUITY-AS189 Genuity 209.169.223.0/24 AS189 GENUITY-AS189 Genuity 209.172.0.0/18 AS7770 TRITON Triton Technologies, Inc. 209.213.32.0/19 AS10629 INTERPAC Inter-Pacific Network Services 209.213.50.0/24 AS10629 INTERPAC Inter-Pacific Network Services 209.213.51.0/24 AS10629 INTERPAC Inter-Pacific Network Services 209.213.55.0/24 AS10629 INTERPAC Inter-Pacific Network Services 209.213.56.0/24 AS10629 INTERPAC Inter-Pacific Network Services 209.213.160.0/19 AS4355 ERMS-EARTHLNK EARTHLINK, INC 209.222.137.0/24 AS27429 TIL Telesat International Ltd. 209.240.96.0/19 AS10815 KCNET KCnet, Inc. 209.251.0.0/19 AS11036 SISCOM SISCOM, Inc 209.251.64.0/19 AS10266 NETWAY-AS MDC, Inc. 210.4.20.0/22 AS10095 -No Whois Entry- 210.4.60.0/24 AS10095 -No Whois Entry- 210.4.61.0/24 AS10095 -No Whois Entry- 210.213.0.0/19 AS6453 TELEGLOBE-AS Teleglobe Inc 211.27.156.0/24 AS9768 PUBNET1-AS KT 216.18.224.0/21 AS11458 IMBRIS IMBRIS, INC. 216.18.224.0/22 AS11458 IMBRIS IMBRIS, INC. 216.18.228.0/22 AS11458 IMBRIS IMBRIS, INC. 216.47.32.0/19 AS11304 SPLUS Solutions Plus Inc. 216.96.128.0/18 AS7018 ATT-INTERNET4 AT&T WorldNet Services 216.153.0.0/17 AS6203 ISDN-NET ISDN-Net Inc. 216.226.108.0/22 AS3602 SPRINT-CA-AS Sprint Canada Inc. 217.71.128.0/20 AS29147 NSKEDU-AS Educational Network Please see http://www.cidr-report.org for the full report ------------------------------------ Copies of this report are mailed to: nanog(a)merit.edu eof-list(a)ripe.net apops(a)apops.net routing-wg(a)ripe.net afnog(a)afnog.org

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RE: North America not interested in IP V6
by sthaug＠nethelp.no 01 Aug '03

01 Aug '03

> In europe, when any consumer gets a net connection it's sold as > a pipe to do anything you want with (as long as it abides by laws > and netiquette. That is certainly not the case everywhere in Europe. In Norway, there are several operators that have limitations on your use of xDSL, for instance ("no servers", "only x GB per month of downloads" etc). Steinar Haug, Nethelp consulting, sthaug(a)nethelp.no

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RE: North America not interested in IP V6
by Ben Buxton 01 Aug '03

01 Aug '03

> From: Cougar [mailto:cougar@random.ee] > > On Thu, 31 Jul 2003, Ben Buxton wrote: > > > And further to this...will it be required (or wise at all) > to register > > individual /48 delegations when it becomes commonplace to > allocate them > > to standard home users? > [----] > > Plus, putting in and maintaining hundreds of thousands of > entries (we > > have a > > lot of users) would be quite impractical. > > How many home users need /48 ? I see here almost no home > users who need > more than /64.. Read RFC 3177, it recommends /48 so that users get given enough space to never have to worry. We cant predict what will happen in 15 years, so we shouldnt put artifical limitations on this. And includes reasons as to why that was decided upon. Its such a shame that a lot of companies want to restrict innovation by insisting that consumers will only want or need a single ip addres or subnet. Or that people only ever need to access web sites with their net connection. This seems especially so in the states and aus. In europe, when any consumer gets a net connection it's sold as a pipe to do anything you want with (as long as it abides by laws and netiquette. It seems that this silly restrictive mentality will remain even with ipv6... BB

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RE: WANTED: ISPs with DDoS defense solutions
by McBurnett, Jim 01 Aug '03

01 Aug '03

Paul Vixie said: lots of late night pondering tonight. the anti-nat anti-firewall pure-end-to-end crowd has always argued in favour of "every host for itself" but in a world with a hundred million unmanaged but reprogrammable devices is that really practical? if *all* dsl and cablemodem plants firewalled inbound SYN packets and/or only permitted inbound UDP in direct response to prior valid outbound UDP, would rob really have seen a ~140Khost botnet this year? -- ----- YEAH but if I wanted to do it, the best way would be behind the firewall... They would have to put in PIX 535 with GIGE and segment the network into DMZs.. HMM.. I think that if the cable modem had a built in router with NAT this problem could be solved partially.. I did a test about 6 months ago. almost a honeypot, but not quite. put a standard windows ME system on a RW IP put a $60 cable router in front of a similiar system. the ME was compromised and made into a Bot in 3 hours. The $60 router protected one was not compromised in the 2 weeks it was used. Both had AV and were updated daily via automation. IF only cable operators would at least STRESS the security issues OR make the AUP's Stick.. Some of you may have seen my emails asking for help from Charter about security issues. It took me almost 4 months to get someones attention, and then only after I brought up several ARIN and other policies they violated. I hate to say it but I don't think we will see anything change here.. And if so not enough to matter.... maybe from 140K to 120K anyway I am ranting... J

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RE: abuse case management
by William Devine, II 01 Aug '03

01 Aug '03

I started using OTRS (Open Ticket Request System) a month or so ago and LOVE IT. You can setup pre-canned response templates and have multiple users login and maintain various queues. It's open source and works VERY well. http://www.otrs.org/ william -----Original Message----- From: owner-nanog(a)merit.edu [mailto:owner-nanog@merit.edu] On Behalf Of Mikael Abrahamsson Sent: Friday, August 01, 2003 4:08 AM To: nanog(a)nanog.org Subject: abuse case management Is there an abuse case management system as freeware somewhere, something like all the ticket/case handling packages out there, but more specifically aimed at abuse/complaint handling. I googled some but couldnt find any. My idea is that it should provide functions to do the following flow: Abuse complaint comes in via email, is scanned if it's in a certain format, if it is, put it directly into the case handling system. If not, This email is presented to the handler on a web page. The handler looks at the email and decides whether the email has enough information in it to be a complete abuse complaint. If NO, press button to send back a form to the one who complained stating what information is needed and that they can either fill in the email form and return the email, or go to a web page and fill it in (the link should go to their original complaint so they can add information). If YES, the handler puts complaint IP adress, time and type of complaint in some web fields and then presses another button to put the complaint (now categorized) into the case handling system. This, coupled to a customer IP database, will enable daily reporting on top customers who get complained about, bundling of complaints per customer etc, plus it makes the process of cases without enough information take 5-10 seconds to handle. This is a variation on the telia web way that was complained about a month back or so, in that it enables the same categorization by a handler in an efficiant (?) way. It was mentioned in the earlier discussion that we should have a standardized way of reporting abuse via email. Was anything ever done about this, or should we try to just make a de facto form that might spread if more ISPs adopt it? Do the spamcop etc people have any suggestions on how to handle the huge amount of complaints they generate? Any suggestions welcome. -- Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike(a)swm.pp.se

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RE: WANTED: ISPs with DDoS defense solutions
by Tomas Daniska 01 Aug '03

01 Aug '03

> >However, I would like to see Java or Other Language to run on the > routers, > >(I know you can install and play Quake on one vendor´s > boxes) but I mean > >to do things really belonging to the router but so far I > have yet to see > a vendor > >to take programmable boxen (outside their own development) seriously. > > >Maybe it´s just too hard. > > It's not hard at all technically. The hard part is that > manufacturers do > not want to have to provide support for such flexible boxes > when they have > such a hard time just dealing with the complexity of existing general > purpose routers. Current routers are trying to be all things to all well, although not available for the ip routing stuff, IOS possesess a tcl interpreter and you can deploy virtually anything for voice purposes. you can program your own signalling, voice call processing, interaction with external systems... just bring your fantasy, and some level of tcl skills, too :) and it *is* supported -- deejay

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Re: WANTED: ISPs with DDoS defense solutions
by Michael.Dillon＠radianz.com 01 Aug '03

01 Aug '03

>However, I would like to see Java or Other Language to run on the routers, >(I know you can install and play Quake on one vendor´s boxes) but I mean >to do things really belonging to the router but so far I have yet to see a vendor >to take programmable boxen (outside their own development) seriously. >Maybe it´s just too hard. It's not hard at all technically. The hard part is that manufacturers do not want to have to provide support for such flexible boxes when they have such a hard time just dealing with the complexity of existing general purpose routers. Current routers are trying to be all things to all people. They have far too many knobs and their routing software runs on far too many hardware platforms. If they let you run scripts on the box itself, there would be a combinatorial explosion in complexity which would make it a lot harder for the manufacturer's router gurus to help you. But you can still build this yourself for some environments using something like Click, the modular software router. http://www.pdos.lcs.mit.edu/click/ You may not be able to get the type of interfaces that you need because of the need for driver support. Click simplifies the task by using Linux device drivers but Click is not Linux and does not use the Linux kernel. However you can integrate Click into a Linux system as a kernel module rather like building a real-time Linux system There are various manufacturers that make PCI WAN interface cards that can be used in such boxes. http://www.pt.com/products/prodgroup_access.html http://www.brooktrout.com/products/netaccess_pri_pci/ http://www.iphase.com/products/specificProduct.cfm/2/8/190 The real question is whether or not this type of build-your-own router is feasible financially because of the small quantities involved compared to a box manufacturer. And where in your network could you confidently deploy such boxes when you know that you will have to support them yourself. Personally, I think the most interesting spot to try these boxen would be at the provider edge and the customer edge because it's not hard to think up value-added services that could be provided by such boxes and generate additional revenue. --Michael Dillon

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abuse case management
by Mikael Abrahamsson 01 Aug '03

01 Aug '03

Is there an abuse case management system as freeware somewhere, something like all the ticket/case handling packages out there, but more specifically aimed at abuse/complaint handling. I googled some but couldnt find any. My idea is that it should provide functions to do the following flow: Abuse complaint comes in via email, is scanned if it's in a certain format, if it is, put it directly into the case handling system. If not, This email is presented to the handler on a web page. The handler looks at the email and decides whether the email has enough information in it to be a complete abuse complaint. If NO, press button to send back a form to the one who complained stating what information is needed and that they can either fill in the email form and return the email, or go to a web page and fill it in (the link should go to their original complaint so they can add information). If YES, the handler puts complaint IP adress, time and type of complaint in some web fields and then presses another button to put the complaint (now categorized) into the case handling system. This, coupled to a customer IP database, will enable daily reporting on top customers who get complained about, bundling of complaints per customer etc, plus it makes the process of cases without enough information take 5-10 seconds to handle. This is a variation on the telia web way that was complained about a month back or so, in that it enables the same categorization by a handler in an efficiant (?) way. It was mentioned in the earlier discussion that we should have a standardized way of reporting abuse via email. Was anything ever done about this, or should we try to just make a de facto form that might spread if more ISPs adopt it? Do the spamcop etc people have any suggestions on how to handle the huge amount of complaints they generate? Any suggestions welcome. -- Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike(a)swm.pp.se

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Re: WANTED: ISPs with DDoS defense solutions
by Paul Vixie 31 Jul '03

31 Jul '03

> Private deployment of software written in C is very different from a > major public release, especially so when included with source code. you're right. when i've been involved in non-opensource products which were written in C and then shipped as binaries, i was scared to death about the lack of public review relative to the size of the user base, and i always argued for rather expen$ive SQA to make up for the weakness of not getting free SQA from all those security companies looking to make a name for themselves by being first to discover a vulnerability. or was that not what you meant?

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