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Re: UPS and generator interaction?
by David Lesher 30 Mar '04

30 Mar '04

Oh, another detail. Some 98% of the UPSi around are "standby" units. They sit and trickle their batteries until the line fails, then quickly kick in. They take 'n' hours to recharge when the line returns. But there exist another genus. These 'full time' units ALWAYS run the load from the UPS inverter; and have a big AC line->DC "battery charger" -- big enough so as to keep up. The advantage is a very high degree of line isolation. Any surge, sag, glitch, spike may affect the AC->DC side of the equation, but will have to get past the battery plant and inverter for the load to see it. Note it does not even care what the input frequency is. I know of one large unit that was sent to Mexico City. At the time, it was 50Hz, but there was some announced plan for the city to go to 60, Real Soon Now. The UPS "battery charger" ran on anything between say 40-70 Hz, but the inverter made 60.0 Hz, period. Such units are not common or cheap. In the low end, Sola Corp used to make some in the low (1-3?) KVA range. Top end, how many KVA do you need? I think the one going to Mexico City was 500KVA. If your power is really rotten [Here, Guyana comes to mind...] you may want to spend more up front. Side thought, but not a NANOG topic. What in your data center really cares if your generator puts out 57 or 63 Hz, not 60.0? Why? -- A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz(a)nrk.com & no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433 is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

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New cisco exploit published in the media today
by Henry Linneweh 30 Mar '04

30 Mar '04

Cisco warns of new hacking toolkit http://www.infoworld.com/article/04/03/29/HNhackingtoolkit_1.html exploit location http://www.blackangels.it/ -Henry

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RE: UPS and generator interaction?
by Dave Hilton 30 Mar '04

30 Mar '04

I had trouble like this years ago. Seems that some UPSes only recognize sine-wave AC power, whereas some UPSes provice something more like sawtooth or square-wave AC power. Inserting a Variac (very inefficient) between the generator and the sensitive UPSes fixed the problem. Dave Hilton SysAdmin Entelos Dum Spiro, Spero -----Original Message----- From: Mike Lewinski [mailto:mike@rockynet.com] Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 10:54 AM To: Brian (nanog-list) Cc: nanog(a)merit.edu Subject: Re: UPS and generator interaction? Brian (nanog-list) wrote: > Does anyone know of a way to get a UPS to trigger a generator to > start, and to switch over to the generator power automatically or does > this type of thing just not exist? What Patrick said. But, on a minor note that probably won't affect your Symmetra but I'm posting in case anyone else here can shed light on.... we had a power event this AM. The transfer switch did it's magic and all was good... Except for two new APC1400's- they failed once the batteries drained. I triple-checked that they were on the right panel, played with sensitivity, even tried daisy-chaining one off a good working 2200. Nothing I did would convince the two 1400s they had power. Once the house power was restored they came back to life and look normal. I later learned that two of our colo customers with APC1400s had the same problem :( Other models (even a couple non-essential lower-end, dumb APC 450s and 650s) didn't blink at the generator power. Mike

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UPS and generator interaction?
by Brian (nanog-list) 30 Mar '04

30 Mar '04

Does anyone know of a way to get a UPS to trigger a generator to start, and to switch over to the generator power automatically or does this type of thing just not exist? Right now we've got a APC Symmetra UPS at 12kva, with no generator. The UPS keeps us running for about 45 minutes, which just isn't enough time. I called APC, but they didn't seem to have any type of automatic solution. Their method is to hook it up to a switch, and manually change the feed to the UPS from the building power to the generator power and back, but it sure would be nice to have something more automated (to save me from running like a madman when the UPS page wakes me up at 4am). I'd be very grateful to hear of any solutions that you guys have come up with in this arena. Also, any recommendations for generators? I'm not looking for something huge, just something that can be mounted on a roof. If I have to pour diesel into it every couple hours, that's fine too. Thanks in advance, Brian

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RE: UPS and generator interaction?
by kwallace＠pcconnection.com 29 Mar '04

29 Mar '04

Brian (nanog-list) wrote: > Does anyone know of a way to get a UPS to trigger a generator to start, and > to switch over to the generator power automatically or does this type of > thing just not exist? What Patrick said. >But, on a minor note that probably won't affect your Symmetra but I'm >posting in case anyone else here can shed light on.... we had a power >event this AM. The transfer switch did it's magic and all was good... >Except for two new APC1400's- they failed once the batteries drained. I >triple-checked that they were on the right panel, played with >sensitivity, even tried daisy-chaining one off a good working 2200. >Nothing I did would convince the two 1400s they had power. Once the >house power was restored they came back to life and look normal. I later >learned that two of our colo customers with APC1400s had the same >problem :( Other models (even a couple non-essential lower-end, dumb APC >450s and 650s) didn't blink at the generator power. >Mike If you are sure they were on an EP panel, then you may want to verify the generator frequency/voltage. We had an old 120KVA UPS that was VERY sensitive to frequency, and would stay on battery while the generator was running, even if the frequency was only off 1/2 cycle. Regards, Keith

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Re: UPS and generator interaction?
by Robert Boyle 29 Mar '04

29 Mar '04

At 01:26 PM 3/29/2004, you wrote: >I'd be very grateful to hear of any solutions that you guys have come up >with in this arena. Also, any recommendations for generators? I'm not >looking for something huge, just something that can be mounted on a roof. >If I have to pour diesel into it every couple hours, that's fine too. You need an automatic transfer switch. Asco and Kohler both make very good ones. Square-D, GE and the other electrical component companies make medium and huge units, but it sounds like you need a small one. This would normally be installed along with your generator. R Tellurian Networks - The Ultimate Internet Connection http://www.tellurian.com | 888-TELLURIAN | 973-300-9211 "Good will, like a good name, is got by many actions, and lost by one." - Francis Jeffrey

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Access in Steamboat Springs CO
by Adam Maloney 29 Mar '04

29 Mar '04

Anyone providing access in Steamboat Springs care to give me dial-up access for a few days? I'd just need an hour or so a day through April 2nd. I also detected a wireless provider here called Springloose - if you guys are on-list, I wouldn't mind wireless access either :) I will be happy to return the favor if you're ever in the Twin Cities area. Adam Maloney Systems Administrator Sihope Communications

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Level3 LA issues?
by Scott Francis 29 Mar '04

29 Mar '04

One of their LA switches has dropped the last 1800 consecutive packets sent through it ... as I'm a customer of a customer, details have been pretty scarce so far. Anybody else seeing issues with L3 in Los Angeles, or is it just me? I haven't been able to find a publicly-accessible network status page at level3.com so far ... thanks, -- Scott Francis | darkuncle(at)darkuncle(dot)net | 0x5537F527 Less and less is done until non-action is achieved when nothing is done, nothing is left undone. -- the Tao of Sysadmin

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RE: CCO goes down the tubes
by Howard C. Berkowitz 29 Mar '04

29 Mar '04

At 6:58 AM -0800 3/29/04, Michel Py wrote: > > Maybe I'm the only one left who sees a need to be >> able to check on things from a vt100 at a remote site. > >You are not. A telnet version without all the fluffy bullshit would be >more than welcome. > I suppose it's trivial in the grand scheme of things, but on a fairly small screen, I can'tget full access to the search without scrolling to the right. We wouldn't want to reduce the priority of advertising information display to the user who probably has already bought equipment and has a question about it, would we? Perhaps a nastier effect is that the more eye candy, the harder it is to use disability access features. One of the incredibly positive social effects of the Internet is that it is inclusionary, not exclusionary. The regrettable tendency of many enterprises to equate the Internet with the latest and greatest in Web technology leads to both economic and sensory exclusion. Personally, I resent having to buy new hardware to run the new operating system that runs the new browser that runs the latest plugin, in order to see straightforward reference material [1]. In addition, the more visually intensive an interface metaphor, the more difficult it is to adapt it to magnified images, text-to-speech, or other things needed for people with visual disabilities. The more mouse/trackball/pointing device intensive, the more difficult it is to adapt to people with motor disabilities -- including the all-too-common repetitive stress injuries to hands.

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Telus Vancouver/Burnaby contact?
by Eric Kuhnke 29 Mar '04

29 Mar '04

Could somebody from Telus (preferably the Vancouver/Burnaby office) please contact me off-list? This is in regards to CRTC decisions 1995-15, 1996-1484, 2000-13 and most importantly 2003-54.

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