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Campus size Wireless LAN
by Eric Brown 22 Jul '04

22 Jul '04

Anyone have experience with Proxim's tsunami quickbridge for wireless connectivity between buildings at line of site distances under 1 mile? It's cheaper than Cisco and looks good on paper. Looking for the good bad and ugly. Thanks in advance! -Eric

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RE: T1 short-haul vs. long-haul
by Michel Py 22 Jul '04

22 Jul '04

>> SmartJack with demarcation point in the office (or >> same floor) instead of the building entrance point I can't emphasize enough the importance of this, read ahead. > Mark Kent wrote: > You are not likely going to be able to control that, > it depends on how the install tech's day is going. > Strictly speaking, I believe they are supposed to put > it at the MPOE. For the smart jack, it depends on the telco and/or if the telco also is the CLEC. Example1: You buy the T1 from AT&T, and they use SBC (formerly Pacific Bell) as the CLEC. The only way you will get the demarc extended in your premises is to have the router managed by AT&T, and then the demarc is the Ethernet port of their router. If you have your own router the demarc is the smart jack, the smart jack is at the MPOE and anything between the smart jack and you is your responsibility, which is terrible as I will explain below. Example2: You buy the circuit from XO and they are their own CLEC. As you hold the sales droid by the cojones you will be able to have the demarc extended to your premises. > As you order the circuit specify where you want it to > end up ("server room, 2nd floor") and that you want an > extended demarc (will cost extra). Yes, yes, yes. It is worth the extra cost. > AT install time, make sure someone is around to cajole the > installer into getting the NIU as close as you can to where > your router will be. This is where there isn't much you can do about. I have tried several times to "cajole" with 200 bucks in cash and/or other incentives; it did not happen. > The installer should test from the extended > demarc (make sure they do). The installer and all the techs always test from the demarc, whether or not it's extended. What you DON'T want to do is to extend the demarc yourself (because you don't actually extend it), and here's why: - Let's assume example 1 above. - The demarc is at the MPOE; the smart jack is 1ft away from the NIU; you have a 300ft cat5 cable between the smart jack and the CSU/DSU in your premises. - You drop packets; you have 65 identically configured sites, you replaced the router and the CSU/DSU twice already, and you still drop packets. As the config can't be at fault as it works fine on the other 64 sites and the hardware can't be at fault since you replaced every piece of it including the power cord and the patch cords twice, it's obviously a circuit issue, right? - You call AT&T. "It works on my side" (remember this sentence). - You call SBC. "It works on my side". That is, if you get them to talk to you as the circuit goes to AT&T and they will likely say "talk to them". - You call AT&T again. "It works on my side". - You call your AT&T sales droid and threaten not to pay the bill and sue them. - After 2 days of ping-pong you finally get an SBC tech to come and test the line (possibly by lying at the number of CRC errors). - The SBC tech comes, plugs the pattern tester at the smart jack, loops the remote CSU/DSU, and it all tests clean. - The SBC tech report that the circuit is clean, now you're back dealing with AT&T. - More time passes by. You finally get the AT&T tech to come. He does the same as the SBC tech: plugs the tester at the demarc and runs bit patterns. "It works on my side". - You say: but I need it to work at my router, not in the MPOE room. Tough luck, buddy. Our responsibility stops at the demarc; it tests clean, we don't give a rip if you extended the demarc to your office. Tough luck. Sometimes pattern testers detect line issues, sometimes they don't. Now you have to move your CSU/DSU and router in the MPOE room (possibly open to all winds) and _prove_ them that it's a circuit issue. Morale: you want the demarc extended to the same room you have the CSU/DSU in your premises, ESPECIALLY if there is more than one company involved. > Get a standard built-in T1 dsu like as been mentioned in > previous posts. Plug it into the extended demarc with an > ethernet patch cable. Yes indeed. CAT5 is your friend even if it's not necessary on paper. Michel.

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Identity theft case could be largest so far
by Fergie (Paul Ferguson) 22 Jul '04

22 Jul '04

Important enough to not be off-topic. http://www.cnn.com/2004/LAW/07/21/cyber.theft/index.html - ferg -- "Fergie", a.k.a. Paul Ferguson Engineering Architecture for the Internet fergdawg(a)netzero.net or fergdawg(a)sbcglobal.net

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RE: Campus size Wireless LAN
by Eric Brown 21 Jul '04

21 Jul '04

Thanks for the info! That's exactly what I need. -----Original Message----- From: owner-nanog(a)merit.edu [mailto:owner-nanog@merit.edu] On Behalf Of Scott Blomquist Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 4:22 PM To: nanog(a)merit.edu Subject: Re: Campus size Wireless LAN > On Jul 21, 2004, at 2:01 PM, Eric Brown wrote: > >> >> Anyone have experience with Proxim's tsunami quickbridge for wireless >> connectivity between buildings at line of site distances under 1 mile? >> It's cheaper than Cisco and looks good on paper. Looking for the good >> bad and ugly. Thanks in advance! >> >> -Eric Just a quick note, I'm running the Proxim AP600 units (Tsunami baby brothers) with great results. 48-54Mb/s for .5 mile shot. Easily remote configurable, quick setup and much cheaper than the Tsunami if all your doing is a quick P2P. my $.02 Scott -- Scott V. Blomquist,A-SA-CN-NRK TINLC(tm) #2598 ITI/Bear&Co Rochester, VT 802-767-3174(v) 802-767-3726(f) "Any technology sufficiently advanced is indistinguishable from Magic." A. C. Clarke

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RE: T1 short-haul vs. long-haul
by Burton, Chris 21 Jul '04

21 Jul '04

I would watch out on the ADSL lines; most carriers I have dealt with in the past on these types of circuits fall under the residential category and there for do not have the same type of SLA's (24x7 support or response window) that say an SDSL business account would. Depending on the required uptime you may want to stick with SDSL (Usually 2.0Mbs Up/Down) if you go with any of the xDSL types of circuits and verify with the Telco that their SLA fit your business needs. Of course if cost is not a object and you require a strong SLA for the circuit I would stick with a T1 or even a reasonably priced Fractional T3 assuming you have or can get the equipment. Chris Burton Network Engineer Walt Disney Internet Group: Network Services The information contained in this e-mail message is confidential, intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If the reader of this e-mail is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible to deliver it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any review, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please contact Walt Disney Internet Group at 206-664-4000. -----Original Message----- From: owner-nanog(a)merit.edu [mailto:owner-nanog@merit.edu] On Behalf Of Jon R. Kibler Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 9:45 AM To: Andre Oppermann Cc: nanog(a)merit.edu Subject: Re: T1 short-haul vs. long-haul Andre: If your distance for the short-haul is less than 10 miles or so (line-of-sight), I would go wireless. Reasons: a) you can get 10-30MBps on wireless vs. 1.4Mbps for T1. b) if you already have an antenna or other high-point, you can own the wireless network for about what the Telco would charge for a T-1 over about a year. If you really want a wire circuit, for long-haul or short-haul, consider multiple xDSL connections. For example, under the current pricing we are seeing, we can install 8 ADSL circuits for about what one T-1 would cost. With 8 ADSLs, you would be getting >10 Mbps inbound and 2.8Mbps outbound -- equivalent to 8 inbound T-1s and 2 outbound T-1s for the same price as a single T-1. Just some thoughts. Jon Kibler -- Jon R. Kibler Chief Technical Officer A.S.E.T., Inc. Charleston, SC USA (843) 849-8214 ================================================== Filtered by: TRUSTEM.COM's Email Filtering Service http://www.trustem.com/ No Spam. No Viruses. Just Good Clean Email.

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RE: T1 short-haul vs. long-haul
by Hannigan, Martin 21 Jul '04

21 Jul '04

Actually, it has little to do with the techs day. It's all provisioning. At the local mom and pop CLEC, it actually may be the techs day. YMMV. :) DSX indicates a cross connect in the loop. A cross connect is a dumb mechanical device that does nothing except put access points in the "long haul" circuit so that you can troubleshoot in case of an error or failure. The X connect, depending upon interconnect or full cross connect capability, determines how much test, add, drop, or move capability you have. All the cross connect equipment I am aware of is capable of E1/T1. A smartjack is a dumb device as well, just creating a loop when you disconnect from it which enables the telco to test facing themselves. That's why you want one in your cabinet facing them. If you want to insure you are not a TYPE 2 powered drop from the CO or remote, find out what the CLLI code of providers net is and use that as the Z end when ordering. If they don't have equipment and are going to buy a tail circuit, the last mile, give them someone elses mux CLLI and tell them it's a "preferred provider". The CLLI code is almost always printed/taped/labeled on the front of the device. As far as distance goes, I can cover a 150,000 s/f collocation space from one end to the other with shielded ABAM and wire wrap termination blocks. For this purpose, an ethernet cable should be fine for a long ways. :) You can tweak out the LBO if necessary, but you want to do this only if you have to. Messing with the dB levels could be problematic and should be done in conjuction with the provider. -M -- Martin Hannigan (c) 617-388-2663 VeriSign, Inc. (w) 703-948-7018 Network Engineer IV Operations & Infrastructure hannigan(a)verisign.com > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-nanog(a)merit.edu [mailto:owner-nanog@merit.edu]On Behalf Of > Mark Kent > Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 12:40 PM > To: nanog(a)merit.edu > Subject: Re: T1 short-haul vs. long-haul > > > > >> o SmartJack with demarcation point in the office (or same > floor) instead > >> of the building entrance point > > You are not likely going to be able to control that, > it depends on how the install tech's day is going. > Strictly speaking, I believe they are supposed to put > it at the MPOE. > > >> If I am unlucky the T1 gets delivered either directly or > via repeaters as > > You are worrying about this too much. > > Order the T1 (ESF, B8ZS). As you order the circuit specify where you > want it to end up ("server room, 2nd floor") and that you > want an extended > demarc (will cost extra). > > AT install time, make sure someone is around to cajole the installer > into getting the NIU as close as you can to where your router will be. > The installer should test from the extended demarc (make sure > they do). > > Get a standard built-in T1 dsu like as been mentioned in > previous posts. > Plug it into the extended demarc with an ethernet patch cable. > > Now, even though I say to not worry, it is important to remember the > #1 lesson when dealing with telephone companies. I figure it is the > same all over the world, but just in case it isn't, I'll > repeat it here: > > The telco is not your friend. > > -mark >

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DLS Service Simulator
by miyazawa＠brasiltelecom.com.br 21 Jul '04

21 Jul '04

We would like to make a system setup capable to automatically test several points of our network (different BRAS, different DNS Servers, etc), mainly using PPPoE Does anyone have or heard about this kind of "DSL simulator"? -Hamilton DDD para todo o Brasil e DDI para o mundo inteiro. Pense 14, Fale 14, Ligue 14

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Re: T1 short-haul vs. long-haul
by Mark Kent 21 Jul '04

21 Jul '04

>> I don't think standard ethernet pinouts are correct. You want a cable >> with pins 1&2 on one twisted pair and 4&5 on another (7&8 for DDS 56K). Correct has nothing to do with it. Any straight-through cable will work just fine. It's just from the jack to the equipment... and it's already been specified that the extended demarc has been made to the place specified by the customer (i.e., near the router). If you're only going 14 feet (up a wall, across a ladder, down a rack) then you can use silver satin, or just about any straight-through cable you find on the floor or under the tiles or in the trunk of your car. -mark

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Follow the money - Extortion gang caught
by Sean Donelan 21 Jul '04

21 Jul '04

Its easier to follow the money. DDOS gang arrested in Russia. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/3914363.stm The National High-Tech Crime Unit, which led the investigation, tracked down the racketeers by tracing money transfers between the three men and ten gang members who had been arrested in Latvia in November.

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Inexpensive Telephone Conference Bridge System
by Robert A. Hayden 21 Jul '04

21 Jul '04

While this isn't directly networking related, I thought any followups might be of interest so I'm posting here. I'm looking to find a fairly inexpensive piece of hardware that will allow me to set up a easy permanent telephone conference bridge. The purpose would be to allow engineers and managers to call into a fixed rotary number to communicate during network outages. In my perfect world, this widget would simply take some quantity of POTs lines in to the back (maybe 12 to 24) or less-optimum but still workable a channelized T1 or PRI that we could figure out how to mux together ourselves) and bridge everyone together. A password and other things is nice but honestly not important. We use CENTREX systems here so getting POTs drops is easy while channelized services are much more difficult. I'm trying not to do this without a super fancy (and expensive) PBX system. The more turn-key the better. Just set it up and go. We have ideas for hacking something up with a linux box, but I'd prefer something a little more designed for the task. Any ideas? Robert Hayden University of Wisconsin Madison

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