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RE: BGP-based blackholing/hijacking patented in Australia?
by Michel Py 13 Aug '04

13 Aug '04

> Stephen J. Wilcox wrote: > This is not IP hijacking by any means, Mmmm. What tells you that these routes won't be announced to peers or won't leak? We are not supposed to see announcements for bogons nor for RFC1918 space, but we do. Thinking about it, I agree that "hijacking" is not the proper term though as it is generally understood as announcing/using a netblock that belongs to an entity long gone (preferably from the swamp, so one can try to modify everything possible in whois info and claim ownership) or is un-allocated. Would this be "kidnapping"? This is to blacklisting what wildcarding is to NXDOMAIN. If the domain does not exist, you get an error not the web page you get when it's wilcarded. If the IP is blackholed, you get an error not the web page you get when it's kidnapped. Michel.

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great networks
by Network Guru 13 Aug '04

13 Aug '04

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RE: BGP-based blackholing/hijacking patented in Australia?
by Bevan Slattery 13 Aug '04

13 Aug '04

Micheal, At 04:30 PM 13/08/2004, Michel Py wrote: >Trying to patent the wheel is not good for credibility, nor is using the >very same stinky methods as the scam artists. Appreciate the hospitable welcome to the NANOG list. For future reference your concern and feedback has been noted and filed accordingly. [b] ______________________________________ PIPE Networks/IX Services Australia disclaimer The above email should be read in conjunction with our standard disclaimer/terms which can be found at : http://www.pipenetworks.com/docs/disclaimer.htm

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RE: BGP-based blackholing/hijacking patented in Australia?
by Michel Py 13 Aug '04

13 Aug '04

> Andre Oppermann wrote: > If you remember the very old story on Slashdot where > some guy in Australia managed to secure a patent on a > "circular transportation device" (a.k.a. "Wheel") it > will explain many things... ;-) I mean no disrespect to people from down under, but I have heard several times that if Al Gore was Australian he would have secured a patent that he invented the Internet... Michel.

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RE: Current street prices for US Internet Transit
by Michel Py 13 Aug '04

13 Aug '04

Bill, In order to compare apples to apples, clarifying the measuring unit of the commit would be nice, IMHO: > William B. Norton wrote: > if you commit to 1M per month 1M per month of what exactly? Is this average for the month or subject to 95th percent tile? Michel.

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XO Mail engineers?
by Drew Weaver 13 Aug '04

13 Aug '04

It has come to my attention that XO has "done away" with some of concentric's email systems and have replaced them with new "XO SMTP servers" these new XO SMTP servers aren't allowing people who don't have their mail hosted at XO to relay mail through them even though they are XO DSL customers, you guys may want to rethink your policy on this. It is generally the responsibility of the ISP to provide the outgoing mail transport for your connected users. -Drew

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Re: BGP-based blackholing/hijacking patented in Australia?
by Robert Bonomi 12 Aug '04

12 Aug '04

> Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 11:47:22 -0700 (PDT) > From: Henry Linneweh <hrlinneweh(a)sbcglobal.net> > Subject: Re: BGP-based blackholing/hijacking patented in Australia? > > --- "Stephen J. Wilcox" <steve(a)telecomplete.co.uk> > wrote: >> >> On Thu, 12 Aug 2004, Henry Linneweh wrote: >>> >>> --- "Stephen J. Wilcox" <steve(a)telecomplete.co.uk> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> On Thu, 12 Aug 2004, Petri Helenius wrote: >>>> >>>>> We have had running code for this since early this year, so depending >>>>> on the date they filed, prior art exists well documented. >>>> (blueprints obviously predate running code) >>>> >>>> everyone has gone patent crazy, every time a new concept is developed some >>>> company applies for patent. is this the future or rfcs then? >>>> >>>> Steve >>>> >> >>> Well if it will harm the community, would it be possible to auto copyright >>> rfc's, so that the authors of a concept can prevent someone from sipping >>> their effort off? RFCs -- like aything else -- _are_ copyrighted, under current law. However, almost all, if not all, of them contain express permission for anyone to copy/reproduce them. Copyright of a process description, furthermore, does *NOT* preclude someone from -using- the the process that was so described. Aside from those 'inconsiderate' facts getting in the way, you don't have a bad idea. :) >>> Ignorance at the top doesn't mean we can't be like always leading the >>> way...... >>> >>> -Henry >>> >>> > >> one issue with that might be that the patents are >> taken out on variations of the >> core idea, imho the variations are not new ideas but >> legally they seem to get >> away with it >> >> Steve > > ok so then in the copyright let us see if can cover > all variations of the original concept as belonging to > the original author or author's as a test case for > adaption and modificaiton to copyright law. I strongly > believe in the protection of original idea's in > reference to rfc's Sorry, copyright doesn't work that way. The _expression_ the concept is protected. *NOT* the underlying concept itself. To protect a 'process', or 'mechanism', you are into the realm of _patent_ law.

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BGP-based blackholing/hijacking patented in Australia?
by Niels Bakker 12 Aug '04

12 Aug '04

http://australianit.news.com.au/articles/0,7204,10394549%5E15306%5E%5Enbv%5… 2004-08-10 (via InfoAnarchy) "Pipe has applied for a patent for its method of blocking access to deceptive websites linked to fraudulent emails that direct users to fake bank websites to capture bank account and password details. [..] "Pipe Networks managing director Bevan Slattery said Pipe had been testing a method of enabling banks, ISPs and law enforcement agencies to notify Pipe of new phishing emails. "Pipe could then distribute updated internet routing information to ISPs via the border gateway protocol, so internet users could not reach the fraudulent website." The implications of this are scary. Hijacking of IP space by a private company, supported by the government? -- Niels. -- Today's subliminal thought is:

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Teen pleads guilty in Internet attack
by Fergie (Paul Ferguson) 12 Aug '04

12 Aug '04

For your perusal: Teen pleads guilty in Internet attack SEATTLE, Washington (AP) -- A Minnesota high school senior pleaded guilty Wednesday in federal court to unleashing a variant of the "Blaster" Internet worm, which crippled more than a million computers last summer. http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/internet/08/12/internet.attack.ap/index.html - ferg -- "Fergie", a.k.a. Paul Ferguson Engineering Architecture for the Internet fergdawg(a)netzero.net or fergdawg(a)sbcglobal.net

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Current street prices for US Internet Transit
by William B. Norton 12 Aug '04

12 Aug '04

Hi all - As I'm putting together some Peering vs. Transit pricing models for an upcoming peering forum in NYC, I'd like to verify some current transit prices I am getting from the field. Here is what the peering coordinators are telling me... Sound about right to you guys? ISP Transit Commits and Prices (Tier 2 ISP buying from non-bottom feeder ISPs) --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- if you commit to 1M per month you will pay about $125/Mbps if you commit to 10M per month you will pay about $ 60/Mbps if you commit to 100M per month you will pay about $45/Mbps if you commit to 1000M per month you will pay about $30/Mbps Round Number Costs for Local Loops into an IX 100M $1000/month 1000M $4000/month If you have any actual price quote #'s that I can generalize that would be great. If you can say too high, too low, about right based on the commits, that would help also. Please note that I'm not looking for the best price one could get, but rather an average street price a Tier 2 ISP or cable company (or network savvy Content company) would pay. These prices are going to used for modelling The Business Case for Peering v2, an update to the original white paper describing when peering makes sense financially... more on this later. Thanks! Bill

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