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Root DNS servers
by Joseph Nuara 22 Apr '05

22 Apr '05

Does anyone know what is currently happening with the root DNS servers? I'm currently unable to do A and MX lookups on some domains while my service providers DNS server appears to be ok ...

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Re: New worm?
by Chris Boyd 22 Apr '05

22 Apr '05

On Apr 21, 2005, at 11:24 PM, Charles Cala wrote: > i've seen file sharing/p2p/spam bots set up like that. > > removed a few, the hard way. > > (un mounted the drives, set them up on another box, and cleaned them) > > what does the virus scan turn up? > Don't know yet, as the support staff gone for the day at this time. --Chris

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Any supply a live contact for mac.com?
by D. Campbell MacInnes 22 Apr '05

22 Apr '05

Hey, Can anyone who has a good contact for mail/abuse issues at Mac.com please contact me offline? I've already tried the traditional routes with no success. Thanks. --Campbell

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The Cidr Report
by cidr-report＠potaroo.net 22 Apr '05

22 Apr '05

This report has been generated at Fri Apr 22 21:44:56 2005 AEST. The report analyses the BGP Routing Table of an AS4637 (Reach) router and generates a report on aggregation potential within the table. Check http://www.cidr-report.org/as4637 for a current version of this report. Recent Table History Date Prefixes CIDR Agg 15-04-05 156270 107049 16-04-05 156458 107074 17-04-05 156453 107094 18-04-05 156496 107190 19-04-05 156537 107298 20-04-05 156687 107243 21-04-05 156814 107312 22-04-05 156923 107451 AS Summary 19392 Number of ASes in routing system 7957 Number of ASes announcing only one prefix 1468 Largest number of prefixes announced by an AS AS7018 : ATT-INTERNET4 - AT&T WorldNet Services 90503424 Largest address span announced by an AS (/32s) AS721 : DLA-ASNBLOCK-AS - DoD Network Information Center Aggregation Summary The algorithm used in this report proposes aggregation only when there is a precise match using the AS path, so as to preserve traffic transit policies. Aggregation is also proposed across non-advertised address space ('holes'). --- 22Apr05 --- ASnum NetsNow NetsAggr NetGain % Gain Description Table 157106 107454 49652 31.6% All ASes AS4323 1094 226 868 79.3% TWTC - Time Warner Telecom AS18566 791 8 783 99.0% COVAD - Covad Communications AS4134 888 216 672 75.7% CHINANET-BACKBONE No.31,Jin-rong Street AS721 1113 561 552 49.6% DLA-ASNBLOCK-AS - DoD Network Information Center AS7018 1468 948 520 35.4% ATT-INTERNET4 - AT&T WorldNet Services AS27364 518 22 496 95.8% ACS-INTERNET - Armstrong Cable Services AS22773 479 23 456 95.2% CCINET-2 - Cox Communications Inc. AS6197 886 468 418 47.2% BATI-ATL - BellSouth Network Solutions, Inc AS3602 507 141 366 72.2% SPRINT-CA-AS - Sprint Canada Inc. AS17676 430 77 353 82.1% JPNIC-JP-ASN-BLOCK Japan Network Information Center AS9929 346 44 302 87.3% CNCNET-CN China Netcom Corp. AS4766 570 277 293 51.4% KIXS-AS-KR Korea Telecom AS6478 387 101 286 73.9% ATT-INTERNET3 - AT&T WorldNet Services AS7545 488 217 271 55.5% TPG-INTERNET-AP TPG Internet Pty Ltd AS9583 718 450 268 37.3% SIFY-AS-IN Sify Limited AS6140 399 141 258 64.7% IMPSAT-USA - ImpSat AS14654 264 6 258 97.7% WAYPORT - Wayport AS9443 373 122 251 67.3% INTERNETPRIMUS-AS-AP Primus Telecommunications AS1239 911 663 248 27.2% SPRINTLINK - Sprint AS23126 253 15 238 94.1% KMCTELCOM-DIA - KMC Telecom, Inc. AS15270 267 36 231 86.5% AS-PAETEC-NET - PaeTec.net -a division of PaeTecCommunications, Inc. AS4755 450 220 230 51.1% VSNL-AS Videsh Sanchar Nigam Ltd. Autonomous System AS6198 455 232 223 49.0% BATI-MIA - BellSouth Network Solutions, Inc AS5668 489 270 219 44.8% AS-5668 - CenturyTel Internet Holdings, Inc. AS2386 840 623 217 25.8% INS-AS - AT&T Data Communications Services AS9498 287 73 214 74.6% BBIL-AP BHARTI BT INTERNET LTD. AS11456 320 112 208 65.0% NUVOX - NuVox Communications, Inc. AS6167 274 78 196 71.5% CELLCO-PART - Cellco Partnership AS22909 349 157 192 55.0% DNEO-OSP1 - Comcast Cable Communications, Inc. AS6517 315 125 190 60.3% YIPESCOM - Yipes Communications, Inc. Total 16929 6652 10277 60.7% Top 30 total Possible Bogus Routes 24.246.0.0/17 AS7018 ATT-INTERNET4 - AT&T WorldNet Services 24.246.128.0/18 AS7018 ATT-INTERNET4 - AT&T WorldNet Services 64.17.32.0/24 AS5024 BRIDGE - BridgeNet, LC 64.17.33.0/24 AS5024 BRIDGE - BridgeNet, LC 64.17.37.0/24 AS5024 BRIDGE - BridgeNet, LC 64.127.0.0/18 AS7018 ATT-INTERNET4 - AT&T WorldNet Services 66.37.96.0/20 AS3764 IA-HOU-AS - Internet America, Inc. 66.164.232.0/24 AS6197 BATI-ATL - BellSouth Network Solutions, Inc 67.47.0.0/17 AS4765 WORLDNET-AS World Net & Services Co., Ltd. 67.47.0.0/18 AS4765 WORLDNET-AS World Net & Services Co., Ltd. 67.47.64.0/18 AS4765 WORLDNET-AS World Net & Services Co., Ltd. 172.32.0.0/24 AS7011 CITLINK - Citizens Utilities 172.122.28.0/24 AS210 WEST-NET-WEST - Utah Education Network 192.30.93.0/24 AS17757 HPAUS-AP HP Australia 192.30.94.0/24 AS17757 HPAUS-AP HP Australia 192.40.105.0/24 AS5515 SONERA-GLOBAL-IP Sonera Solution Autonomous System 192.43.230.0/24 AS7575 AARNET-AS-AP Australian Academic and Reasearch Network (AARNet) 192.44.0.0/19 AS702 AS702 MCI EMEA - Commercial IP service provider in Europe 192.44.0.0/24 AS5501 FRAUNHOFER-CLUSTER-BW Fraunhofer Gesellschaft 192.70.164.0/24 AS25689 NRCNET-AS - National Research Council of Canada 192.81.182.0/24 AS719 ELISA-AS Elisa Oyj 192.81.183.0/24 AS719 ELISA-AS Elisa Oyj 192.81.184.0/24 AS719 ELISA-AS Elisa Oyj 192.119.135.0/24 AS270 PSCNI-AS - National Aeronautics and Space Administration 192.124.252.0/22 AS680 DFN-IP service G-WiN 192.133.6.0/24 AS4004 GLOBALONE-EQUANT-UK Equant UK & Greece Autonomous System 192.135.50.0/24 AS7018 ATT-INTERNET4 - AT&T WorldNet Services 192.136.53.0/24 AS8346 SONATEL-AS Autonomous System 192.153.144.0/21 AS721 DLA-ASNBLOCK-AS - DoD Network Information Center 192.172.0.0/19 AS721 DLA-ASNBLOCK-AS - DoD Network Information Center 192.188.208.0/20 AS721 DLA-ASNBLOCK-AS - DoD Network Information Center 192.200.100.0/24 AS7018 ATT-INTERNET4 - AT&T WorldNet Services 196.2.95.0/24 AS8668 TELONE-AS TelOne Zimbabwe P/L 196.3.162.0/24 AS6083 AFRINIC African Network Information Center 198.23.26.0/24 AS4390 BELLATLANTIC-COM - Bell Atlantic, Inc. 198.97.72.0/21 AS721 DLA-ASNBLOCK-AS - DoD Network Information Center 198.97.80.0/20 AS721 DLA-ASNBLOCK-AS - DoD Network Information Center 198.97.88.0/24 AS89 NUSC-CSTLNET-AS - Naval Underwater Systems Center 198.97.240.0/20 AS721 DLA-ASNBLOCK-AS - DoD Network Information Center 198.97.247.0/24 AS3475 LANT-AFLOAT - Department of the Navy 198.101.4.0/22 AS721 DLA-ASNBLOCK-AS - DoD Network Information Center 198.136.32.0/20 AS19329 MCNET - Martin County Board of County Commissioners 198.144.32.0/19 AS3998 CITY-NET - CityNet, Inc. 198.160.171.0/24 AS7046 UUNET-CUSTOMER - UUNET Technologies, Inc. 198.161.87.0/24 AS6539 GROUPTLCOM - GT Group Telecom Services Corp. 198.163.155.0/24 AS684 MBNET-AS - Manitoba Regional Network 198.167.0.0/16 AS7456 INTERHOP - Interhop Network SERVICES Inc. 198.167.163.0/24 AS15290 ALLST-15290 - Allstream Corp. Corporation Allstream 198.168.0.0/16 AS701 ALTERNET-AS - UUNET Technologies, Inc. 198.169.0.0/16 AS803 SASKTEL - SaskTel 198.232.133.0/24 AS23075 SKOTOS-AS - Skotos Tech, Inc 199.10.0.0/16 AS721 DLA-ASNBLOCK-AS - DoD Network Information Center 199.60.0.0/20 AS271 BCNET-AS - University of British Columbia 199.96.44.0/23 AS19092 360NETWORKS-US - 360Networks (USA) Inc. 199.96.46.0/24 AS19092 360NETWORKS-US - 360Networks (USA) Inc. 199.114.0.0/21 AS721 DLA-ASNBLOCK-AS - DoD Network Information Center 199.114.128.0/18 AS721 DLA-ASNBLOCK-AS - DoD Network Information Center 199.114.130.0/24 AS721 DLA-ASNBLOCK-AS - DoD Network Information Center 199.114.132.0/24 AS721 DLA-ASNBLOCK-AS - DoD Network Information Center 199.114.134.0/24 AS3541 ITSDN-U4 - DISA/UNRRA 199.114.136.0/24 AS27044 DDN-ASNBLK1 - DoD Network Information Center 199.114.138.0/24 AS721 DLA-ASNBLOCK-AS - DoD Network Information Center 199.114.140.0/24 AS3544 ITSDN-U7 - DISA/UNRRA 199.114.142.0/24 AS721 DLA-ASNBLOCK-AS - DoD Network Information Center 199.114.144.0/24 AS721 DLA-ASNBLOCK-AS - DoD Network Information Center 199.114.148.0/24 AS721 DLA-ASNBLOCK-AS - DoD Network Information Center 199.114.150.0/24 AS721 DLA-ASNBLOCK-AS - DoD Network Information Center 199.114.152.0/24 AS27033 DDN-ASNBLK1 - DoD Network Information Center 199.114.154.0/24 AS1733 CENTAF-SWA - AF DDN PMO 199.114.156.0/24 AS27034 DDN-ASNBLK1 - DoD Network Information Center 199.114.160.0/24 AS1733 CENTAF-SWA - AF DDN PMO 199.120.32.0/19 AS16582 NEXTLEVELINTERNET - NEXTLEVEL INTERNET, INC. 199.121.0.0/16 AS721 DLA-ASNBLOCK-AS - DoD Network Information Center 199.123.0.0/18 AS721 DLA-ASNBLOCK-AS - DoD Network Information Center 199.123.16.0/20 AS721 DLA-ASNBLOCK-AS - DoD Network Information Center 199.123.80.0/21 AS721 DLA-ASNBLOCK-AS - DoD Network Information Center 199.189.32.0/19 AS7332 IQUEST-AS - IQuest Internet 199.202.0.0/16 AS701 ALTERNET-AS - UUNET Technologies, Inc. 202.72.240.0/20 AS24320 RAILCOM Mongolian Railway Commercial Center Railcom 202.86.252.0/22 AS4748 RESOLINK-AS Resources Linke Network Limited 202.93.0.0/20 AS4134 CHINANET-BACKBONE No.31,Jin-rong Street 202.164.224.0/19 AS7599 IPXC-AS-AP IP Exchange 203.32.4.0/23 AS7617 TELEONE-HK TeleTeleOne (HK) Limited 203.62.0.0/17 AS7572 AARNET-ACT-RNO Australian Academic and Reasearch Network (AARNet) 203.99.0.0/19 AS17746 ORCONINTERNET-NZ-AP Orcon Internet 203.99.142.0/24 AS9826 ILINK-HK-AP iLink.net Ltd 203.210.69.0/24 AS17536 PRODIGY-AS-AP Prodidgy Telecommunications 204.48.118.0/23 AS29912 CITIZENS-PROPERTY-INSURANCE-CORPORATION - Citizens Property Insurance Corporation 204.48.119.0/24 AS29912 CITIZENS-PROPERTY-INSURANCE-CORPORATION - Citizens Property Insurance Corporation 204.154.125.0/24 AS3952 TELLABS-ASN - TELLABS Operations, Inc. 204.154.126.0/24 AS3952 TELLABS-ASN - TELLABS Operations, Inc. 204.154.127.0/24 AS3952 TELLABS-ASN - TELLABS Operations, Inc. 204.194.110.0/23 AS30653 EXOBIT - Exobit Networks Inc. 205.150.0.0/15 AS701 ALTERNET-AS - UUNET Technologies, Inc. 206.108.96.0/19 AS577 BACOM - Bell Advanced Communications Inc. 206.128.104.0/21 AS11709 VIC - VIRTUAL INTERACTIVE CENTER 206.167.57.0/24 AS376 RISQ-AS - Reseau Interordinateurs Scientique Quebecois (RISQ) 206.191.64.0/18 AS15290 ALLST-15290 - Allstream Corp. Corporation Allstream 206.191.96.0/19 AS15290 ALLST-15290 - Allstream Corp. Corporation Allstream 207.231.96.0/19 AS11194 NUNETPA - NuNet Inc 208.53.224.0/19 AS13576 SDNET - SOUTH DAKOTA NETWORK 208.138.48.0/20 AS6971 ATG-1 - Advanced Telcom Group, Inc 209.27.51.0/24 AS14132 INTERNETGATEWAY - Internet Gateway Inc. 209.134.0.0/18 AS8082 WORLDSITE - Worldsite Networks 209.205.69.0/24 AS21578 Universidad autonoma de Bucaramanga 209.205.70.0/24 AS21578 Universidad autonoma de Bucaramanga 209.205.81.0/24 AS15066 SkyNet de Colombia S.A. 209.205.82.0/24 AS15066 SkyNet de Colombia S.A. 209.205.84.0/24 AS15066 SkyNet de Colombia S.A. 209.213.32.0/19 AS10629 INTERPAC - Inter-Pacific Network Services 209.213.48.0/24 AS10629 INTERPAC - Inter-Pacific Network Services 209.213.49.0/24 AS10629 INTERPAC - Inter-Pacific Network Services 209.222.137.0/24 AS27429 TIL - Telesat International Ltd. 209.251.0.0/19 AS11036 SISCOM - SISCOM, Inc 216.37.110.0/23 AS4264 CERNET-ASN-BLOCK - California Education and Research Federation Network 216.82.160.0/20 AS13823 CALYX-USA - Calyx Internet Access Corp. 216.96.128.0/18 AS7018 ATT-INTERNET4 - AT&T WorldNet Services 216.145.200.0/21 AS20304 JVLNET - JVLNET Internet Services 216.171.96.0/20 AS3356 LEVEL3 Level 3 Communications Please see http://www.cidr-report.org for the full report ------------------------------------ Copies of this report are mailed to: nanog(a)merit.edu eof-list(a)ripe.net apops(a)apops.net routing-wg(a)ripe.net afnog(a)afnog.org swinog(a)swinog.ch

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Getting a BGP table in to a lab
by Nathan Ward 22 Apr '05

22 Apr '05

I'm trying to come up with a way to get a full BGP routing table in to my lab. I'm not really fussed about keeping it up to date, so a snapshot is fine. At the moment, I'm thinking about spending a few hours hacking together a BGP daemon in perl to peer with and record a table from a production router, disconnect, and then start peering with lab routers. Am I reinventing a wheel here? -- Nathan Ward

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RE: Getting a BGP table in to a lab
by Reeves, Rob 21 Apr '05

21 Apr '05

Andre summed it up nicely for me here. I suppose quagga's stability is somewhat relative to the actual environment it's being used in. In our case, it was a live environment with nearly 20 full routing tables in constant flux (the usual table churn from various providers). We moved on to something else prior to the multithreading fixes being deployed, so I can't say how much better it is now. There were several occasions when we had to roll back from a version upgrade due to process-crashing bugs. That was also a bit bothersome. Overall, though, I think quagga could definitely be useful for a lab environment. In our testing lab, it was actually *too* stable. We had to come up with a way to create constant table updates from the lab peers in order to confirm the cause of a crash. :) -Rob Arnold Nipper wrote: > > On 21.04.2005 17:17 Reeves, Rob wrote >> >> Quagga is great for smaller implementations, but it doesn't scale >> very well. It eats up a lot of CPU, so once you hit a certain number >> of BGP peers, it may start intermittently flapping BGP sessions, or >> even just crash the bgpd process entirely. > > For what numbers? I've two quaggas, ~150 peers each, doing as-path and > *full* prefix filtering for each peer (Config is around 9MB). CPU is > idle 99.x% mostly ... Yea, but not 150 full feeds. With some full feeds flapping Quagga has a hard time. This is mostly due to poor scheduling of its poor internal multithred scheduler. Fortunatly the root cause has been identified and fixes are currently being discussed on the Quagga lists. Nontheless I prefer OpenBGPd because its internal design is made for many full feeds and it's parts run asynchonously from each other. The only missing thing there is full filtering capabilities which are under development currently. And of course that I pay the time for one of the OpenBGPd developers employed at my company. ;-) If you want to tip the jar too you are most welcome. -- Andre [Oppermann] [aka andre(a)FreeBSD.ORG] ( http://www.networx.ch )

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RE: Getting a BGP table in to a lab
by Reeves, Rob 21 Apr '05

21 Apr '05

Quagga is great for smaller implementations, but it doesn't scale very well. It eats up a lot of CPU, so once you hit a certain number of BGP peers, it may start intermittently flapping BGP sessions, or even just crash the bgpd process entirely. Although, I don't recall whether or not the newer versions support multi-threading for dual processors now... -Rob -----Original Message----- From: owner-nanog(a)merit.edu [mailto:owner-nanog@merit.edu] On Behalf Of Frotzler, Florian Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2005 4:35 AM To: nanog(a)merit.edu Subject: RE: Getting a BGP table in to a lab Hi, Zebra is outdated, the successor is called quagga (at least on debian) and is capable of providing most of the vendor C BGP features, though MD5 autentication is still experimental I think. We used to push a handful of BGP full feeds on our quagga router and it didn't stumble a bit. OSPF also works quite well, btw. Florian > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-nanog(a)merit.edu [mailto:owner-nanog@merit.edu] On > Behalf Of Scott Morris > Sent: Donnerstag, 21. April 2005 02:50 > To: swm(a)emanon.com; 'Nathan Ward'; nanog(a)merit.edu > Subject: RE: Getting a BGP table in to a lab > > > Forget part of my reply here... I thought someone was > posting from the CCIE forum stuff I do. > > So disregard the lack-of-caffeine-induced, retarded command > about no router being able to support a full feed. :) > > My apologies.... > > Zebra is still a good idea though! > > Scott > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-nanog(a)merit.edu [mailto:owner-nanog@merit.edu] On > Behalf Of Scott Morris > Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 8:42 PM > To: 'Nathan Ward'; nanog(a)merit.edu > Subject: RE: Getting a BGP table in to a lab > > > None of the routers that are tested in the lab are capable of > supporting a full BGP feed.... > > If you just want to play with BGP stuff, you can use Zebra > (unix) or go to www.nantech.com and get their BGP4WIN program. > > That may help you a bit more. > > Scott > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-nanog(a)merit.edu [mailto:owner-nanog@merit.edu] On > Behalf Of Nathan Ward > Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 8:35 PM > To: nanog(a)merit.edu > Subject: Getting a BGP table in to a lab > > > I'm trying to come up with a way to get a full BGP routing > table in to my lab. > I'm not really fussed about keeping it up to date, so a > snapshot is fine. > At the moment, I'm thinking about spending a few hours > hacking together a BGP daemon in perl to peer with and record > a table from a production router, disconnect, and then start > peering with lab routers. > > Am I reinventing a wheel here? > > -- > Nathan Ward > > > >

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AW: Getting a BGP table in to a lab
by John van Oppen 21 Apr '05

21 Apr '05

I agree... I have around 75 peers on a box that actually does the routing running quagga, and there appears to be no problem. My only issues have been with version upgrades having bugs in them, but those problems are due to my inadequate testing. I also utilize supervise scripts (daemontools)to keep all the The best feature is being able to use the same route maps I use on my cisco boxes. John :) -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: Arnold Nipper [mailto:arnold@nipper.de] Gesendet: Thursday, April 21, 2005 2:09 PM An: Reeves, Rob Cc: nanog(a)merit.edu Betreff: Re: Getting a BGP table in to a lab On 21.04.2005 17:17 Reeves, Rob wrote > > Quagga is great for smaller implementations, but it doesn't scale very > well. It eats up a lot of CPU, so once you hit a certain number of > BGP peers, it may start intermittently flapping BGP sessions, or even > just crash the bgpd process entirely. For what numbers? I've two quaggas, ~150 peers each, doing as-path and *full* prefix filtering for each peer (Config is around 9MB). CPU is idle 99.x% mostly ... Arnold -- Arnold Nipper, AN45

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RE: Getting a BGP table in to a lab
by Frotzler, Florian 21 Apr '05

21 Apr '05

Hi, Zebra is outdated, the successor is called quagga (at least on debian) and is capable of providing most of the vendor C BGP features, though MD5 autentication is still experimental I think. We used to push a handful of BGP full feeds on our quagga router and it didn't stumble a bit. OSPF also works quite well, btw. Florian > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-nanog(a)merit.edu [mailto:owner-nanog@merit.edu] On > Behalf Of Scott Morris > Sent: Donnerstag, 21. April 2005 02:50 > To: swm(a)emanon.com; 'Nathan Ward'; nanog(a)merit.edu > Subject: RE: Getting a BGP table in to a lab > > > Forget part of my reply here... I thought someone was > posting from the CCIE forum stuff I do. > > So disregard the lack-of-caffeine-induced, retarded command > about no router being able to support a full feed. :) > > My apologies.... > > Zebra is still a good idea though! > > Scott > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-nanog(a)merit.edu [mailto:owner-nanog@merit.edu] On > Behalf Of Scott Morris > Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 8:42 PM > To: 'Nathan Ward'; nanog(a)merit.edu > Subject: RE: Getting a BGP table in to a lab > > > None of the routers that are tested in the lab are capable of > supporting a full BGP feed.... > > If you just want to play with BGP stuff, you can use Zebra > (unix) or go to www.nantech.com and get their BGP4WIN program. > > That may help you a bit more. > > Scott > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-nanog(a)merit.edu [mailto:owner-nanog@merit.edu] On > Behalf Of Nathan Ward > Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 8:35 PM > To: nanog(a)merit.edu > Subject: Getting a BGP table in to a lab > > > I'm trying to come up with a way to get a full BGP routing > table in to my lab. > I'm not really fussed about keeping it up to date, so a > snapshot is fine. > At the moment, I'm thinking about spending a few hours > hacking together a BGP daemon in perl to peer with and record > a table from a production router, disconnect, and then start > peering with lab routers. > > Am I reinventing a wheel here? > > -- > Nathan Ward > > > >

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RE: Getting a BGP table in to a lab
by Fergie (Paul Ferguson) 21 Apr '05

21 Apr '05

...or if you just want to look at BGP route/path stuff, try one of the route servers. Here's a good link: http://www.inetdaemon.com/tools/route_servers.html - ferg -- "Scott Morris" <swm(a)emanon.com> wrote: None of the routers that are tested in the lab are capable of supporting a full BGP feed.... If you just want to play with BGP stuff, you can use Zebra (unix) or go to www.nantech.com and get their BGP4WIN program. That may help you a bit more. Scott -- "Fergie", a.k.a. Paul Ferguson Engineering Architecture for the Internet fergdawg(a)netzero.net or fergdawg(a)sbcglobal.net ferg's tech blog: http://fergdawg.blogspot.com/

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