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Re: [NANOG] Microsoft.com PMTUD black hole?
by Iljitsch van Beijnum 07 May '08

07 May '08

On 6 mei 2008, at 23:48, Valdis.Kletnieks(a)vt.edu wrote: >> A more common approach is to rewrite the MSS option in all TCP SYNs >> with a smaller value so there won't be TCP segments large enough to >> trigger the problem. AFAIK, all boxes that do PPPoE do this. > And just the other day, you were saying: >> Very few people out there use an MTU significantly below 1500 >> bytes. A >> 1500-byte MTU will give you an _average_ packet size of ~1000 on >> long- >> lived TCP flows because there is one tiny ACK for every two full size >> data segments. Right. Why is that noteworthy? I have a lot more to say about MTU issues in this draft about negotating MTUs between two hosts/routers on a subnet so jumboframes can be deployed without manual configuration: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-van-beijnum-multi-mtu-02.txt > Apparently, there's a *reason* why RFC1122, section 3.3.3 says: > It is generally desirable to avoid local fragmentation and to > choose EMTU_S low enough to avoid fragmentation in any gateway > along the path. In the absence of actual knowledge of the > minimum MTU along the path, the IP layer SHOULD use > EMTU_S <= 576 whenever the destination address is not on a > connected network, and otherwise use the connected network's > MTU. Tell it to Microsoft and their ICMP-filtering friends...

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[NANOG] Did Youtube not pay their domain bill?
by sthaug＠nethelp.no 06 May '08

06 May '08

Did Youtube not pay their domain bill? % dig @a.gtld-servers.net. ns yotube.com yotube.com. 2D IN NS ns1.parked.com. yotube.com. 2D IN NS ns2.parked.com. Steinar Haug, Nethelp consulting, sthaug(a)nethelp.no

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[NANOG] would ip6 help us safeing energy ?
by Marc Manthey 06 May '08

06 May '08

hello i have a question : " IF we would use multicast" streaming ONLY, for appropriet content , would `nt this " decrease " the overall internet traffic ? Isn´t this an argument for ip6 / greenip6 ;) aswell ? just my 2 cents marc -- Les enfants teribbles - research and deployment Marc Manthey - Hildeboldplatz 1a D - 50672 Köln - Germany Tel.:0049-221-3558032 Mobil:0049-1577-3329231 jabber :marc@kgraff.net blog : http://www.let.de ipv6 http://www.ipsix.org _______________________________________________ NANOG mailing list NANOG(a)nanog.org http://mailman.nanog.org/mailman/listinfo/nanog

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Re: [NANOG] OSPF minutia, and, technote publication venues
by Nathan Ward 06 May '08

06 May '08

On 6/05/2008, at 1:19 PM, Steven M. Bellovin wrote: > "Steve"? I assume you meant "Paul".... No, Steve Gibbard referred to not having control of routers, Paul referred to customers. -- Nathan Ward

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Re: [NANOG] Larger packets to save power, was: Re: would ip6 help us safeing energy ?
by Iljitsch van Beijnum 05 May '08

05 May '08

On 5 mei 2008, at 17:14, Valdis.Kletnieks(a)vt.edu wrote: >> Obviously there is a lot to be gained at that end, but that doesn't >> mean we should ignore power use in the network. One thing that could >> help here is to increase the average packet size. Whenever I've >> looked, this has always hovered around 500 bytes for internet >> traffic. >> If we can get jumboframes widely deployed, > You don't need jumboframes, you just need to have working Path MTU > Discovery. > Or hand-nail your MSS to 1400 or something. But if you don't do > either of > those, you basically need to assume that the minimum MTU is 512 or so. ??? Very few people out there use an MTU significantly below 1500 bytes. A 1500-byte MTU will give you an _average_ packet size of ~1000 on long- lived TCP flows because there is one tiny ACK for every two full size data segments. (In the other direction, but let's not make things too complicated right now.) The reason that the average is more like half that is that on short interactions the last packet is shorter, and of course there's stuff like gaming, VoIP, DNS that simply uses small packets. >> Now obviously this only works in practice if routers and switches >> actually use less power when there are fewer packets, which is not a >> given. It helps even more if the maximum throughput isn't based on >> 64- >> byte packets. Why do people demand that, anyway? > Max throughput, or max packets/sec? Max data throughput happens at > the > *other* end, with 9K mobygrams... Right, with 9k packets you only need to send around 13 kpps to fill up 1 Gbps, with 1500 bytes it's some 83 kpps. Helps in overhead, TCP performance and (potentially) power use. But someone who is sending a 200 byte packet today isn't going to send something larger when her MTU is increased from 1500 to 9000 so the _average_ won't increase by a factor 6. >> PS. Am I the only one who is annoyed by the reduction in usable >> subject space by the superfluous [NANOG]? > Those of us who are *really* annoyed by stuff like that usually cook > up a procmail recipe to strip it out.. :) I got my procmail set up so it mostly does what I need right now, better not mess with it...

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[NANOG] Strange network behaviour
by Douglas K. Rand 05 May '08

05 May '08

We had a very strange problem today. Two of our hosts could not reach a server, but only those two hosts. All of our other hosts could reach those servers fine. (OK, I didn't try ALL of our IPs, but the half dozen I did try worked fine.) I checked all of our firewalls and routers, and everywhere I looked all of the traffic was exiting our network just fine. I saw on our edge routers the traffic going out, just no traffic back to the two hosts in question. (We had good bidirectional traffic to all of our other hosts.) And the two hosts in question were only having problems connecting to ftp.agnewsonline.com. Lets start with a traceroute from a working host, the orginating host is 12.192.92.14: [~]% traceroute -I ftp.agnewsonline.com traceroute to agnewsonline.com (64.46.45.226), 64 hops max, 60 byte packets 1 12.192.92.3 (12.192.92.3) 0.257 ms 0.171 ms 0.163 ms 2 pluto-0 (12.192.93.13) 0.401 ms 0.296 ms 0.294 ms 3 ixion-att (12.192.93.244) 1.260 ms 0.463 ms 1.116 ms 4 12.87.125.249 (12.87.125.249) 14.838 ms 9.314 ms 9.755 ms 5 tbr2.cgcil.ip.att.net (12.122.99.122) 24.528 ms 24.788 ms 23.009 ms 6 ggr2.cgcil.ip.att.net (12.123.6.69) 22.362 ms 23.410 ms 22.335 ms 7 192.205.33.186 (192.205.33.186) 23.448 ms 24.074 ms 29.405 ms 8 ae-31-53.ebr1.Chicago1.Level3.net (4.68.101.94) 22.800 ms 32.598 ms 36.093 ms 9 ae-68.ebr3.Chicago1.Level3.net (4.69.134.58) 23.446 ms 21.599 ms 34.060 ms 10 ae-3.ebr2.Denver1.Level3.net (4.69.132.61) 61.517 ms 57.482 ms 56.606 ms 11 ae-2.ebr2.Seattle1.Level3.net (4.69.132.53) 96.484 ms 114.264 ms 96.984 ms 12 ae-23-52.car3.Seattle1.Level3.net (4.68.105.36) 91.295 ms 88.700 ms 89.705 ms 13 BIG-PIPE-IN.car3.Seattle1.Level3.net (4.71.152.26) 90.053 ms 90.511 ms 92.072 ms 14 rc1wh-pos14-0.vc.shawcable.net (66.163.76.1) 90.062 ms 93.489 ms 90.757 ms 15 rc2wh-pos0-15-2-0.vc.shawcable.net (66.163.69.181) 96.527 ms 91.743 ms 97.254 ms 16 rd1ht-tge1-1-1.ok.shawcable.net (66.163.77.18) 101.412 ms 114.160 ms 100.530 ms 17 ra1ht-ge3-1.ok.shawcable.net (66.163.72.134) 105.651 ms 101.336 ms 101.628 ms 18 rx0ht-rack-force-2.ok.bigpipeinc.com (64.251.64.50) 111.960 ms 101.535 ms 116.136 ms 19 rf1.01.rackforce.net (69.10.128.198) 583.192 ms 491.170 ms 598.406 ms 20 64.46.45.226 (64.46.45.226) 110.207 ms 108.718 ms 107.279 ms A traceroute from one of the hosts that doesn't work would reach ae-3.ebr2.Denver1.Level3.net but go no further. I then tried pinging the routers I couldn't reach. I could not ping: ae-3.ebr2.Denver1.Level3.net (4.69.132.61) ae-2.ebr2.Seattle1.Level3.net (4.69.132.53) ae-23-52.car3.Seattle1.Level3.net (4.68.105.36) BIG-PIPE-IN.car3.Seattle1.Level3.net (4.71.152.26) but when I started pinging rc1wh-pos14-0.vc.shawcable.net (66.163.76.1) not only did I start getting responses, but everything started working to ftp.agnewsonline.com too, but just from that host. It really seemed that pinging that router some how fixed my problem. Well, I'm not sure I really believed that, but I still had another host that couldn't reach ftp.agnewsonline.com, so on that host I started a ping. I'll add my comments to describe what I was doing in another window in /* */: [~]% ping ftp.agnewsonline.com PING agnewsonline.com (64.46.45.226): 56 data bytes /* At this point in another window I started a nother ping: */ /* ping 66.163.76.1 and immediately this ping started working ... */ 64 bytes from 64.46.45.226: icmp_seq=18 ttl=108 time=104.617 ms 64 bytes from 64.46.45.226: icmp_seq=19 ttl=108 time=105.775 ms 64 bytes from 64.46.45.226: icmp_seq=20 ttl=108 time=101.569 ms --- agnewsonline.com ping statistics --- 22 packets transmitted, 3 packets received, 86% packet loss round-trip min/avg/max/stddev = 101.569/103.987/105.775/1.774 ms It was like I threw a switch. The single outbound ICMP packet to rc1wh-pos14-0.vc.shawcable.net (66.163.76.1) fixed everything for that host. I was wondering if anybody has any clue what might be going on. I've never experienced a problem like this before.

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[NANOG] Was Burma off the air due to the Cyclone ?
by Marshall Eubanks 05 May '08

05 May '08

After a request, I can confirm that Burma / Myanmar dropped off the BGP tables here over the weekend : bgp.sum.May_2_00:07:00_EDT_2008: AS 9988 MPT- AP | 3 hops | as path 174 2914 9988 bgp.sum.May_2_00:07:00_EDT_2008: AS 18399 BAGAN-TRANSIT- AS | 4 hops | as path 174 2914 9988 18399 bgp.sum.May_2_06:07:01_EDT_2008: AS 9988 MPT- AP | 3 hops | as path 174 2914 9988 bgp.sum.May_2_06:07:01_EDT_2008: AS 18399 BAGAN-TRANSIT- AS | 4 hops | as path 174 2914 9988 18399 bgp.sum.May_2_12:07:00_EDT_2008: AS 9988 MPT- AP | 3 hops | as path 174 2914 9988 bgp.sum.May_2_12:07:00_EDT_2008: AS 18399 BAGAN-TRANSIT- AS | 4 hops | as path 174 2914 9988 18399 bgp.sum.May_2_18:07:00_EDT_2008: AS 9988 MPT- AP | 5 hops | as path 174 7473 7700 9881 9988 bgp.sum.May_5_00:07:00_EDT_2008: AS 9988 MPT- AP | 4 hops | as path 174 2914 9304 9988 bgp.sum.May_5_06:07:01_EDT_2008: AS 9988 MPT- AP | 4 hops | as path 174 2914 9304 9988 bgp.sum.May_5_06:07:01_EDT_2008: AS 18399 BAGAN-TRANSIT- AS | 5 hops | as path 174 2914 9304 9988 18399 bgp.sum.May_5_10:37:42_EDT_2008: AS 9988 MPT- AP | 4 hops | as path 174 2914 9304 9988 bgp.sum.May_5_10:37:42_EDT_2008: AS 18399 BAGAN-TRANSIT- AS | 5 hops | as path 174 2914 9304 9988 18399 bgp.sum.May_5_12:07:01_EDT_2008: AS 9988 MPT- AP | 4 hops | as path 174 2914 9304 9988 bgp.sum.May_5_12:07:01_EDT_2008: AS 18399 BAGAN-TRANSIT- AS | 5 hops | as path 174 2914 9304 9988 18399 and was missing totally on May 3 and 4. Note that the path has changed, with 7700 SINGTEL-DVBIP-AS-AP [NSK1-AP] {Singapore 588397, SG} SINGAPORE TELECOMMUNICATIONS LTD 9304 HUTCHISON-AS-AP [IH17-AP] {HONG KONG, HK} Hutchison Telecom (HK) - Mobile, pager, fixed network now being involved. Is it possible that the Cyclone on Saturday took Burma off of the air ? http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7384041.stm Regards Marshall

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[NANOG] Deadline Extension UBICOMM 2008, September 29 - October 4, Valencia, Spain
by Jaime Lloret Mauri 04 May '08

04 May '08

Please consider to contribute to and/or forward to the appropriate groups the following opportunity to submit and publish original scientific results. Apologies for cross-postings. ============== UBICOMM 2008 Call for Papers =============== CALL FOR PAPERS, TUTORIALS, PANELS UBICOMM 2008, The Second International Conference on Mobile Ubiquitous Computing, Systems, Services and Technologies September 29 - October 4, Valencia, Spain General page: http://www.iaria.org/conferences2008/UBICOMM08.html Call for Papers: http://www.iaria.org/conferences2008/CfPUBICOMM08.html Important deadlines: Submission deadline May 15, 2008 Notification June 15, 2008 Registration and camera ready July 20, 2008 Submissions will be peer-reviewed, published by IEEE CS Press, posted in IEEE Digital Library, and indexed with the major indexes. Extended versions of selected papers will be invited for specialized journals. UBICOMM 2008 Special Area Tracks (details in the CfP on site): Fundamentals Semantics of ubiquity; Ubiquitous knowledge; Knowledge discovery mechanisms; Profiling ubiquitous environments; Ubiquitous technologies for education, learning, and training Mobility Ubiquitous computing; Wearable computing; Mobile computing; Nomadic computing; Mobile commerce; Mobile learning Information Ubiquity Ubiquitous information appliances; Information retrieval and filtering; Context awareness; Control of ubiquitous data; Data management and processing; Data replication, migration and dissemination Ubiquitous Multimedia Systems and Processing Multimedia content recognition, indexing and search; Mobile graphics, games and entertainment; Ubiquitous multimedia applications and systems; Streaming mobile multimedia; Mobile media management; Multimedia ubiquitous platforms; Multimedia Indexing and Compression; Image and Signal Processing; Virtual reality in ubiquitous systems Wireless Technologies Bluetooth; 802.11.x; 802.15.x; ZigBee; WiMax Web Services Web 2.0; Semantic web; Web services; Ontology; Web Services evolution; Web Services applications Ubiquitous networks Ubiquitous networks; Network management; Network performance evaluation; Networks and technology convergence; Internet access in ubiquitous systems; Ubiquitous mesh, ad hoc and sensor networks; RFID; Reconfigurability and personalization of ubiquitous networks Ubiquitous devices and operative systems Design of devices for ubiquitous systems; Mobile devices; Wearable devices; Embedded systems; Operative systems for ubiquitous devices; Real-time operating systems and scheduling Ubiquitous mobile services and protocols Frameworks, architectures, and languages for ubiquitous services; Queries, transactions and workflows in mobile and ubiquitous Networks; Algorithms for ubiquitous systems; SLA/QoS in ubiquitous services; Ontology based services; Location-based services; Protocols and interaction mechanisms for ubiquitous services; Mobile services and service convergence; Service discovery mechanisms; Tracking in ubiquitous environments; Measurement, control, and management of ubiquitous services; Design and development of ubiquitous services; Wireless/mobile service delivery Ubiquitous software and security Ambient components; Agent technologies; Software for spontaneous interoperation; Dependability guarantees; Security; Key Management and Authentication; Trust; Privacy; Fault-tolerance; Multimedia Information Security Collaborative ubiquitous systems Cooperative networks for ubiquitous systems; Cooperative applications for ubiquitous networks; Handheld and wearable systems for interaction in collaborative groups and communities; Ad hoc collaboration in ubiquitous computing environments; Awareness of collaboration and of work environment; Inherently mobile collaborative work User and applications Mobile user interfaces; Ubiquitous user-generated content (weblogs, wikis, etc.); Mobile and ubiquitous computing support for collaborative learning; User modeling and personalization; Context- and location-aware applications; Toolkits, testbeds, development environments; Tools and techniques for designing, implementing, & evaluating ubiquitous systems; Constructing, deploying and prototyping of ubiquitous applications; Evaluation of user models for ubiquitous environments; On-line analytical techniques; Human-computer interaction in ubiquitous computing environments; Ubiquitous e-Development (business, science, health, etc.); Case Studies; Emerging industrial/business/scientific ubiquitous scenarios; Ambient intelligence; Social issues and implications of ubiquitous system ================================ UBICOMM 2008 Chairs General Chair Jaime Lloret Mauri, Polytechnic University of Valencia, Spain Program Committee Chairs Narcís Cardona, Polytechnic University of Valencia, Spain Kwang-Cheng Chen, Taiwan National University, Taiwan Steering Committee Chair Petre Dini, Cisco Systems, Inc. / Concordia University, Canada =============================================== --

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[NANOG] Deadline Extension UBICOMM 2008, September 29 - October 4, Valencia, Spain
by Jaime Lloret Mauri 04 May '08

04 May '08

Please consider to contribute to and/or forward to the appropriate groups the following opportunity to submit and publish original scientific results. Apologies for cross-postings. ============== UBICOMM 2008 Call for Papers =============== CALL FOR PAPERS, TUTORIALS, PANELS UBICOMM 2008, The Second International Conference on Mobile Ubiquitous Computing, Systems, Services and Technologies September 29 - October 4, Valencia, Spain General page: http://www.iaria.org/conferences2008/UBICOMM08.html Call for Papers: http://www.iaria.org/conferences2008/CfPUBICOMM08.html Important deadlines: Submission deadline May 15, 2008 Notification June 15, 2008 Registration and camera ready July 20, 2008 Submissions will be peer-reviewed, published by IEEE CS Press, posted in IEEE Digital Library, and indexed with the major indexes. Extended versions of selected papers will be invited for specialized journals. UBICOMM 2008 Special Area Tracks (details in the CfP on site): Fundamentals Semantics of ubiquity; Ubiquitous knowledge; Knowledge discovery mechanisms; Profiling ubiquitous environments; Ubiquitous technologies for education, learning, and training Mobility Ubiquitous computing; Wearable computing; Mobile computing; Nomadic computing; Mobile commerce; Mobile learning Information Ubiquity Ubiquitous information appliances; Information retrieval and filtering; Context awareness; Control of ubiquitous data; Data management and processing; Data replication, migration and dissemination Ubiquitous Multimedia Systems and Processing Multimedia content recognition, indexing and search; Mobile graphics, games and entertainment; Ubiquitous multimedia applications and systems; Streaming mobile multimedia; Mobile media management; Multimedia ubiquitous platforms; Multimedia Indexing and Compression; Image and Signal Processing; Virtual reality in ubiquitous systems Wireless Technologies Bluetooth; 802.11.x; 802.15.x; ZigBee; WiMax Web Services Web 2.0; Semantic web; Web services; Ontology; Web Services evolution; Web Services applications Ubiquitous networks Ubiquitous networks; Network management; Network performance evaluation; Networks and technology convergence; Internet access in ubiquitous systems; Ubiquitous mesh, ad hoc and sensor networks; RFID; Reconfigurability and personalization of ubiquitous networks Ubiquitous devices and operative systems Design of devices for ubiquitous systems; Mobile devices; Wearable devices; Embedded systems; Operative systems for ubiquitous devices; Real-time operating systems and scheduling Ubiquitous mobile services and protocols Frameworks, architectures, and languages for ubiquitous services; Queries, transactions and workflows in mobile and ubiquitous Networks; Algorithms for ubiquitous systems; SLA/QoS in ubiquitous services; Ontology based services; Location-based services; Protocols and interaction mechanisms for ubiquitous services; Mobile services and service convergence; Service discovery mechanisms; Tracking in ubiquitous environments; Measurement, control, and management of ubiquitous services; Design and development of ubiquitous services; Wireless/mobile service delivery Ubiquitous software and security Ambient components; Agent technologies; Software for spontaneous interoperation; Dependability guarantees; Security; Key Management and Authentication; Trust; Privacy; Fault-tolerance; Multimedia Information Security Collaborative ubiquitous systems Cooperative networks for ubiquitous systems; Cooperative applications for ubiquitous networks; Handheld and wearable systems for interaction in collaborative groups and communities; Ad hoc collaboration in ubiquitous computing environments; Awareness of collaboration and of work environment; Inherently mobile collaborative work User and applications Mobile user interfaces; Ubiquitous user-generated content (weblogs, wikis, etc.); Mobile and ubiquitous computing support for collaborative learning; User modeling and personalization; Context- and location-aware applications; Toolkits, testbeds, development environments; Tools and techniques for designing, implementing, & evaluating ubiquitous systems; Constructing, deploying and prototyping of ubiquitous applications; Evaluation of user models for ubiquitous environments; On-line analytical techniques; Human-computer interaction in ubiquitous computing environments; Ubiquitous e-Development (business, science, health, etc.); Case Studies; Emerging industrial/business/scientific ubiquitous scenarios; Ambient intelligence; Social issues and implications of ubiquitous system ================================ UBICOMM 2008 Chairs General Chair Jaime Lloret Mauri, Polytechnic University of Valencia, Spain Program Committee Chairs Narcís Cardona, Polytechnic University of Valencia, Spain Kwang-Cheng Chen, Taiwan National University, Taiwan Steering Committee Chair Petre Dini, Cisco Systems, Inc. / Concordia University, Canada =============================================== --

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[NANOG] [Fwd: Re: outages@isotf.org]
by virendra rode // 04 May '08

04 May '08

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi, We are on the final stages of getting the host operational that has taken longer than we expected. This was a combination of application / hardware related issue that caused a prolonged outage. We deeply regret the delay and we should have outages mailing operational soon. The goal is to pull the host out of operation without affecting the service in the future. Thanks all for your patience during this prolonged delay. regards, /virendra - -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [NANOG] outages(a)isotf.org Date: Sun, 4 May 2008 00:50:11 -0500 (CDT) From: Gadi Evron <ge(a)linuxbox.org> To: justin(a)sharpone.net CC: nanog(a)nanog.org References: <481D49D5.6050302(a)sharpone.net> That list oaught to be working again in a matter of days. On Sat, 3 May 2008, Justin Sharp wrote: > Hello, > > Forgive me if this has been covered previously. > > I have recently discovered this list and have found it a gold mine of > information. I've now traded 3 hours of my life reading through archives > and have even found reference to specific recent outages that my company > suffered to which we never really did get a RFO from the ISP. > > In the archives, I have read of another list which I am interested in at > outages(a)isotf.org. I've tried visiting the site, and subscribing at > http://www.isotf.org/mailman/listinfo/outages (as mentioned in several > archived messages) but it doesn't seem to exist there anymore. Also > tried to search this list for information as to whether it had moved or > been discontinued, etc (google site searches, etc). Has this list been > discontinued? If not, is it still open to the public, and what is its > new location, that I might subscribe? > > Regards, > > --Justin > > _______________________________________________ > NANOG mailing list > NANOG(a)nanog.org > http://mailman.nanog.org/mailman/listinfo/nanog > _______________________________________________ NANOG mailing list NANOG(a)nanog.org http://mailman.nanog.org/mailman/listinfo/nanog -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFIHgTgpbZvCIJx1bcRAmzBAJoCtjUyQ4sFAwRlKv9q+HF5wtmGbACfXXCl JP9n+9Hb5gb9G43MQrjzkC0= =9kiY -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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