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Re: outages, quality monitoring, trouble tickets, etc
by ulmo＠Q.Net 07 Dec '95

07 Dec '95

> Since error reporting sucks in most network applications, it becomes > the fault of whatever help desk happens to take the customers phone call. Bingo! Ever since ten years ago, I've wanted *all* my programs to automatically detect larger-than-usual delays (more than 5ms?) and start giving *exact* status reports, such as "your host is doing DNS query", getting more detailed as the delay gets worse, getting the status and error information dynamically from the intermediaries "host x.y.z is doing a query of nameservers of the BAZ.COM domain in your host flappy.c.e.baz.com, and out of seven route servers 4 have failed, currently trying ... a.root-servers.net ... ICMP unreachable by router X-Y-Z based on data obtained from ..." and on and on until either utter failure or success; the greater the delays from what's reasonable, the more status information gets queried and automatically offered; if any point freezes, you'd know who is responsible. Programs should use a common library of routines which would pop up a window of the responsible organization for the error at hand, and the proper email address to send complaints to; an automated, standard computer-interpretable complaint should be registered automatically similar to syslog but internetted, and a button the user can press to add comments, opinions, etc. or even send further emails (and attaching CC's, making local copies, etc.). I'm amazed it even works 50% of the time, too. I understand why it doesn't work more often; a zillion pieces. We could use the tools (I mean computers) at hand better to inform us of these problems. Yes, I want it to be like my Volvo -- a light lights up whenever a bulb stops working, but better yet the computer can tell me which light is out, and can automatically order the spare part from the right factory. When I'm in Mosaic or Netscape, there's no reason it shouldn't tell me that a diode in a CSU/DSU just blew out in Wyoming, owned by Joe Bizzlededof, and that his staff has an average response time of six hours to fix such a problem, and that his functionaries have been notified, and whether or not I should expect workarounds and what actions I would have to take in order to use them (mostly, this is none -- wait n minutes for routers to find another route and the route will work again?) And, the same thing with a route missing from a router table. Is this crazy? I don't think so! Everything is getting so complex, we need: 1) to know when users can't use the network; thus the automatic feedback mechanisms from end-to-end 2) to know what things to fix to minimize #1 (we're not all trillionares and get to buy redundant everythings; we have to know which items manufactured by who and which programs maintained by who are bound to be more reliable than which others, so we can choose good items or know which ones need redundancy or other protective measures). 3) users to know exactly who to blame, so that help desks get *appropriate* calls rather than *inappropriate* ones. (the get-calls metephore is starting to get old; get-email will be more and more appropriate), and so that users know which organizations not to spend money on. In many cases, users are help desks fixing other peoples' problems. It's all hierarchical, everyone's the top and everyone's the bottom. I believe programmers should experiment with these things, and standards should be drafted, specifically for feedback-to-user-of-actual-problem and end-to-end automatic error reporting in *both* directions (so that each side of the connection and each end of the stack of layers knows what to fix), and responsible party lookup automation (who to *really* bother when there's just no other way (right now, 95% of the time)). Bradley Allen <Ulmo(a)Q.Net>

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05 Dec '95

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Charter Information
by simon＠higgs.com 05 Dec '95

05 Dec '95

Can someone please send me charter & subscription info for the Nanog list. Thanks, _____S_i_m_o_n___H_i_g_g_s______________________H_i_g_g_s___A_m_e_r_i_c_a_____ ... "I'm fine - it's the others" .............. President/CEO ............... _____e-mail:_simon@higgs.com____________________http://www.higgs.com/_________

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None
by Pam Ciesla 04 Dec '95

04 Dec '95

Larry: I have removed you from the nanog mail list. Pam Ciesla >From list-admin(a)merit.edu Sun Dec 3 11:58:26 1995 Received: from merit.edu (merit.edu [35.1.1.42]) by home.merit.edu (8.7.1/merit-2.0) with SMTP id LAA03987; Sun, 3 Dec 1995 11:58:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from achilles.ctd.anl.gov (achilles.ctd.anl.gov [146.137.72.1]) by merit.edu (8.6.12/merit-2.0) with ESMTP id LAA18823 for <nanog(a)merit.edu>; Sun, 3 Dec 1995 11:31:40 -0500 Received: from falstaff.ctd.anl.gov (falstaff.ctd.anl.gov [146.137.64.30]) by achilles.ctd.anl.gov (8.6.11/8.6.11) with ESMTP id KAA10378 for <nanog(a)merit.edu>; Sun, 3 Dec 1995 10:31:39 -0600 From: Larry Amiot <b10523(a)achilles.ctd.anl.gov> Received: (b10523@localhost) by falstaff.ctd.anl.gov (8.6.11/8.6.11) id KAA20525 for nanog(a)merit.edu; Sun, 3 Dec 1995 10:31:37 -0600 Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 10:31:37 -0600 Message-Id: <199512031631.KAA20525(a)falstaff.ctd.anl.gov> To: nanog(a)merit.edu Status: RO Please remove me from the nanog(a)merit.edu email list....Larry Larry Amiot Electronics & Computing Technologies Division Argonne National Laboratory 9700 South Cass Avenue Argonne, Il 60439-4844 Phone: (708) 252-5432 Fax: (708) 252-9689 Internet: amiot(a)anl.gov Bitnet: B10523@ANLVM X.400: /C=US/ADMD=/PRMD=ANL/S=amiot

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subscribe
by mduckett＠bellsouth.net 04 Dec '95

04 Dec '95

subscribe ------------------------------------- E-mail: mduckett(a)bellsouth.net Michael Duckett Network Engineering Manager 1100 Johnson Ferry Rd, Suite 200 Atlanta, Ga. 30342 770 392-4324 fax 404 392-4360 This message was sent by Chameleon -------------------------------------

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Re: Censorship, Obligations, and Legal Responsibility
by Sean Doran 03 Dec '95

03 Dec '95

I hate to throw a wet blanket at Alan, but I would really prefer to redirect this kind of philosophical/legal question to either the cix-members list or to com-priv. I don't want to see NANOG dissolve into a forum for discussing legal issues, principally because a/ it's *NA*NOG, and the law is different in places in north america outside the USA, which many people invariably tend to forget, and b/ such discussions invariably attract long-winded flamefests. Given that such issues really don't overly affect network operations at this point in time, perhaps we won't be too bad off not dealing with them on this mailing list. Sean.

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None
by Larry Amiot 03 Dec '95

03 Dec '95

Please remove me from the nanog(a)merit.edu email list....Larry Larry Amiot Electronics & Computing Technologies Division Argonne National Laboratory 9700 South Cass Avenue Argonne, Il 60439-4844 Phone: (708) 252-5432 Fax: (708) 252-9689 Internet: amiot(a)anl.gov Bitnet: B10523@ANLVM X.400: /C=US/ADMD=/PRMD=ANL/S=amiot

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Re: Censorship, Obligations, and Legal Responsibility
by Sean Doran 03 Dec '95

03 Dec '95

I should also point out that the reason I suggested cix-members is simply because the CIX has gone to bat with an amicus brief in a case involving precisely this question, and while I know Bob Collet reads NANOG with his Sprint hat on, asking him about the very angry Church of Scientology matter is best done in a place where he wears his CIX hat, I think. Besides, I'm sure he has scads of information about this entire set of issues he'd love to share. :) Sean.

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Censorship, Obligations, and Legal Responsibility
by Alan Hannan 03 Dec '95

03 Dec '95

With the publicity surrounding the recently announced coalition and agreement eliminating 'pornography' from certain providers, I am curious as to what our group's thoughts are wrt potential legal expoure to us in the following two areas: A| Network Connectivity Providing and B| Usenet Network News Providing. I have arguments in my head both ways on the question: "Is the NSP|ISP responsible for content of their Pipes|NNTP feed?" I would be curious to hear what the concensus (as if there might be one) is. -alan

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Re: Westnet and Utah outage
by Scott Huddle 02 Dec '95

02 Dec '95

So this is to imply that you do have a problem w/ Sprint and that you are picking on them in a specific way? -scott > From list-admin(a)merit.edu Wed Nov 22 09:23:19 1995 > Date: Wed, 22 Nov 1995 09:20:38 -0500 (EST) > From: Gordon Cook <gcook(a)tigger.jvnc.net> > Reply-To: cook(a)cookreport.com > To: nanog(a)merit.edu > Subject: Westnet and Utah outage > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type> : > TEXT/PLAIN> ; > charset=US-ASCII> > Content-Length: 762 > > small clarification. I have no problem with westnet and do not mean to > be picking on it in anyway. I have a friend who lives in westnet's > service area who gets bothered by these outages and passes them on to me. > > ******************************************************************** > Gordon Cook, Editor & Publisher Subscript.: Individ-ascii $85 > The COOK Report on Internet Non Profit. $150 > 431 Greenway Ave, Ewing, NJ 08618 Small Corp & Gov't $200 > (609) 882-2572 Corporate $350 > Internet: cook(a)cookreport.com Corporate. Site Lic $650 > Newly expanded COOK Report Web Pages http://pobox.com/cook/ > ******************************************************************** > > >

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