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Re: Provider credibility - does it matter? was Re: Inter-provider relations
by Barry Raveendran Greene 26 Oct '96

26 Oct '96

Jeremy Porter wrote: >The Economist's model is incomplete, however I really doubt >it could be argued that Europe subsidizes the US Internet. >A large reason the cost of international leased lines are so >high is due to projectionist tariffs in international Telecom. >I understand it is cheaper to buy a leased line from the >us to Europe than the other way around. OK. So take the US 1/2 circuit costs for both halves of a Atlantic circuit. A T1 would cost 5 - 6 time more across the Atlantic vs 10 times the cost if it was 1/2 US 1/2 Euro-Telco. If the circuit was across the Pacific, and you used the US price for both 1/2s then a T1 would be 7 - 8 time more than a T1 in the US. Yes, Jeremy. You cannot escape the fact that the rest of the world subsidizes US ISP who access the Internet around the world. The economics are skewed. A customer in a ISP in country X. would pay the realistic charges for International access. A customer in a ISP in the US pay domestic access for full international connectivity. That's reality. Barry -- Barry Raveendran Greene | || || | Senior Consulting Engineering | || || | Singapore | |||| |||| | tel: +65 738-5535 ext 235 | ..:||||||:..:||||||:.. | e-mail: bgreene(a)cisco.com | c i s c o S y s t e m s |

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http://www.mids.org/weather/pingstats/
by John S. Quarterman 25 Oct '96

25 Oct '96

Some of you may find the subject URL of interest. It points to statistical summaries of a largish set of pings that we have been conducting regularly since December 1993. This is the data that persuaded Bob Metcalfe to change his prediction from complete demise of the Internet in 1996 to multiple small catastrophes. Your interpretation may vary. Geographical summaries of this data have been available for some time as the MIDS Internet Weather Report <URL:http://www.mids.org/weather>. Thanks, John John S. Quarterman <jsq(a)mids.org> Editor, Matrix Maps Quarterly and Matrix News <mids(a)mids.org> Matrix Information and Directory Services (MIDS) <URL:http://www.mids.org> +1-512-451-7602, fax: +1-512-452-0127 1106 Clayton Lane, Suite 500W Austin, TX 78723 U.S.A.

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Re: Provider credibility - does it matter? was Re: Inter-provider relations
by Vadim Antonov 25 Oct '96

25 Oct '96

Jim Dixon <jdd(a)vbc.net> wrote: >Europe heavily subsidizes the US Internet. It's not just VBCnet: the >European Internet community pays something like 90% of the costs of >traffic between Europe and North America. The same applies to the >rest of the world. Most of all Europe heavily subsidizes its own government bureaucracies. In some places it's cheaper to drag a circuit to US and back than from one European country to another. There are numerous licensing problems. Then, you forgot direct U.S. subsidies (like ICM program sponsored by NSF). Without ICM, the access costs for European (and elsewhere) countries would be quite a lot higher. Finally, the situation will change when backbone carriers will truely internationalize by expanding backbones beyond U.S., and when large European companies will expand business to U.S. (some do -- like BT which gave MCI quite a chunk of money, which at least partially were used to build MCInet). Some my friends used to work for Cable & Wireless, which is moving into Internet business as well (in U.S.). --vadim

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Re: Provider credibility - does it matter? was Re: Inter-provider relations
by Vadim Antonov 25 Oct '96

25 Oct '96

Jim Dixon <jdd(a)vbc.net> wrote: >I am not on some sort of crusade; this is not a stable arrangement and >won't last. Benefits flow both ways; in time the costs will come to >more or less match the benefits. Not because I say yes or you say no >but because the market will adjust itself. >I can see how the system currently works, and I know it's not going to last. Yes, i agree completely. Unfortunately i can't talk about what other people's plans regarging changes in economics of US-Europe connectivity. --vadim

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Re: Inter-provider relations
by Peter Kline 25 Oct '96

25 Oct '96

At 03:25 PM 10/24/96 -0400, JDF wrote: > > Interesting speech from Peter Kline at NANOG today...it seems that >AGIS's peering requirements are now so strict that AGIS today would not >peer with AGIS of only a few months ago. Nope. AGIS has been at the specified exchange points for well over a year, long before the trickle of peering requests turned into an ugly, swirling, threat-filled flood. > Then there's Peter's comment to Ron Burleson, Cheif Operating >Officer of CAIS Internet (some of you know that CAIS had a very good >relationship with Net99, which continued for a while under AGIS.) "Ron, >we're going to squish you like a bug." 1. The author of this mail was not present at the conversation, which took place when this guy Burleson, who I've never heard of, cornered me in the empty lunch room outside of the NANOG meeting room. 2. This mail makes it obvious that Burleson deliberately set out to make me say something which could be reported out of context in an attempt to make AGIS look bad. It also explains why he made sure the room was empty. 3. The comment misquoted above is also horribly out of context. Let's review the actual conversation: RB: Do you know who I am? ME: No. Should I? Have we met before? RB: I'm Ron Burleson, self important president of CGX Telecom [who?], which owns CAIS [oh. I thought Cable and Wireless bought an interest in CAIS, but I guess I was wrong.]. ME: OK. RB: You didn't [blah blah blah tirade tuned out about CAIS and AGIS]. ME: OK. RB: Why don't you return my phone calls or answer my mail? ME: For some time now I have received much more mail and many more phone calls than I can personally answer. RB: I'm going to fuck the AGIS network any way I can. ME: So, you're going to fuck the AGIS network... Here I paused to consider my responses, which could have included: - Thank you. - Thank you very much. - Fuck you. - Fuck you very much. - I'd fuck your network back, but I don't want to catch whatever's given you those running sores. - Fuck your network and the horse it rode in on. - about a million other vulgar things I could think of. but instead, I said: "Then I'll squash you like a bug," which seemed to me to be a proportionate, non-vulgar, measured, I'm-the-bigger-person response to a pretty off-the-graph, vulgar, and irresponsible tirade. > Peter is doing wonders for inter-provider relations. What do >y'all say that the rest of us follow the older, more friendly model, >instead of trying to kill each other? I didn't start it, and I'm not the one who made the threat. It is big Ron who apparently wants to kill me/AGIS. And I just don't stand around and take crap from people. > Sure, a lot of us are in competition. From today's speech, it >seems that AGIS is is more competition than the rest of us. Competition is either good or bad, pick one. Based on the grip CAIS has on the DC market, I'd guess CAIS was founded based on the idea that competition is good. My relationship with Bob Gibson has always been cordial. > But personally, if I were a small or mid-size provider, I'd rather >buy service from somebody that I've seen to be in /friendly/ competition >with their peers -- that way, once I got big enough to strike out on my >own, I could stay friendly with my old provider on a peer instead of a >customer level. This was the intention with the Net99 deal, back when >Net99 was known as "the backbone that doesn't suck." It sucked pretty bad in the end. Joe didn't give Dave any of the tools needed to run a decent network, and I think Dave did an amazing job with what he had. > Back to the point -- like it or not, we all rely on each other and >each others' networks to make the Internet happen. > We can follow the AGIS model and cut each others' throats until we >really are just a bunch of autonomous systems with the occasional path >between, or we can interconnect -- network, to use a more laoded term. AGIS has cordial relationships with other majors like ANS, NETCOM, Sprint, MCI, and uu.net, as well as many others. > I think we should be a network. > > (Please note that while I am speaking only for myself, CAIS's >business plan is more on the friendly side.) Then get an email account at AOL. I consider you to be speaking for CAIS. There's a very serious issue here for CAIS, which is that a man purporting to be its president/owner/whatever acted quite irresponsibly. The way to get even with AGIS, if that's what he needs to do, is to build a bigger better network and win over our customers, not 'fuck' the AGIS network, with all the consequences that suggested action implies for our customers. In light of Ron's comment to me, I think it would be in the best interest of AGIS's customers to email or call Mr. Ron Burleson of CAIS/CGX (email address conveniently cc'd above by JDF) and ask him how he intends to fuck AGIS (by SYN flooding or other denial of service attack, physically damaging colocates, or what). When he doesn't respond, bury his office with calls and mail, or even better, track him down at IETF or the next NANOG, get him into a corner, and demand to know why he didn't return your calls and mail. Peter

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The Cidr Report
by Tony Bates 25 Oct '96

25 Oct '96

This is an auto-generated mail on Fri Oct 25 12:00:01 PDT 1996 It is not checked before it leaves my workstation. However, hopefully you will find this report interesting and will take the time to look through this to see if you can improve the amount of aggregation you perform. The report is split into sections: 0) General Status List the route table history for the last week, list any possibly bogus routes seen and give some status on ASes. 1) Gains by aggregating at the origin AS level This lists the "Top 30" players who if they decided to aggregate their announced classful prefixes at the origin AS level could make a significant difference in the reduction of the current size of the Internet routing table. This calculation does not take into account the inclusion of holes when forming an aggregate so it is possible even larger reduction should be possible. 2) Weekly Delta A summary of the last weeks changes in terms of withdrawn and added routes. Please note that this is only a snapshot but does give some indication of ASes participating in CIDR. Clearly, it is generally a good thing to see a large amont of withdrawls. 3) Interesting aggregates Interesting here means not an aggregate made as a set of classful routes. Thanks to xara.net for giving me access to their routing tables once a day. Please send any comments about this report directly to me. In the future I hope to put some (or most) of this report up on the web. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ CIDR REPORT for 25Oct96 0) General Status Table History ------------- Date Prefixes 191096 41611 201096 41783 211096 42050 221096 42498 231096 42649 241096 42629 251096 42386 Possible Bogus Routes --------------------- AS Summary ---------- Number of ASes in routing system: 1704 Number of ASes announcing only one prefix: 686 (354 cidr, 332 classful) Largest number of cidr routes: 517 announced by AS3561 Largest number of classful routes: 1270 announced by AS174 1) Gains by aggregating at the origin AS level --- 25Oct96 --- ASnum NetsNow NetsCIDR NetGain % Gain Description AS174 1270 935 335 26.4% Performance Systems International AS3602 625 334 291 46.6% Intergrated Network Services Inc. AS2493 772 492 280 36.3% i*internet AS3301 836 574 262 31.3% TeliaNet Sweden AS279 617 401 216 35.0% SURAnet Southern AS AS3397 309 95 214 69.3% EMI-AS AS2048 352 161 191 54.3% State of Louisiana/Office of Tele AS3749 247 69 178 72.1% Tennessee Board of Regents AS1 449 310 139 31.0% BBN Planet backbone AS1691 292 157 135 46.2% BCTEL AS86 326 198 128 39.3% SURAnet Northern AS AS3804 361 235 126 34.9% WorldLinx 3 AS5769 176 65 111 63.1% Le Groupe Videotron Ltee AS813 355 245 110 31.0% UUNET Canada (ASN-UUNETCA-AS1) AS560 444 337 107 24.1% BBN Planet, New England Region (N AS2871 200 93 107 53.5% Internet Services GmbH & Co AS568 345 248 97 28.1% JIS (Joint Interconnection Servic AS2386 227 135 92 40.5% INS-AS AS2704 277 198 79 28.5% HOOKUP-NET-A AS4230 234 161 73 31.2% Embratel Brazil AS3819 101 30 71 70.3% SIGNET AS5650 192 122 70 36.5% Electric Lightwave Inc. and XMiss AS7195 104 38 66 63.5% INTERRED AS3996 118 53 65 55.1% FIRN AS3450 113 48 65 57.5% UTK AS3575 80 18 62 77.5% Seanet, Inc AS225 118 56 62 52.5% University of Virginia (VIRnet) AS855 132 71 61 46.2% NBTel AS2711 111 54 57 51.4% SUNBELT-AS AS4454 64 12 52 81.2% OIR Telecommunications, State of --- 24Oct96 --- ASnum NetsNow NetsCIDR NetGain % Gain Description AS174 1266 918 348 27.5% Performance Systems International AS3602 626 331 295 47.1% Intergrated Network Services Inc. AS2493 772 492 280 36.3% i*internet AS3301 836 574 262 31.3% TeliaNet Sweden AS279 617 404 213 34.5% SURAnet Southern AS AS3397 308 99 209 67.9% EMI-AS AS2048 351 153 198 56.4% State of Louisiana/Office of Tele AS3749 254 65 189 74.4% Tennessee Board of Regents AS1 462 321 141 30.5% BBN Planet backbone AS1691 286 154 132 46.2% BCTEL AS3804 364 235 129 35.4% WorldLinx 3 AS86 324 197 127 39.2% SURAnet Northern AS AS560 460 347 113 24.6% BBN Planet, New England Region (N AS5769 176 65 111 63.1% Le Groupe Videotron Ltee AS2871 200 93 107 53.5% Internet Services GmbH & Co AS813 352 246 106 30.1% UUNET Canada (ASN-UUNETCA-AS1) AS568 340 243 97 28.5% JIS (Joint Interconnection Servic AS2386 228 136 92 40.4% INS-AS AS2704 278 193 85 30.6% HOOKUP-NET-A AS4230 229 156 73 31.9% Embratel Brazil AS719 525 453 72 13.7% LANLINK autonomous system AS3819 101 30 71 70.3% SIGNET AS5650 192 122 70 36.5% Electric Lightwave Inc. and XMiss AS3603 105 38 67 63.8% CETCOL - Uniandes AS3996 122 56 66 54.1% FIRN AS855 132 69 63 47.7% NBTel AS3575 80 18 62 77.5% Seanet, Inc AS225 119 57 62 52.1% University of Virginia (VIRnet) AS3450 108 50 58 53.7% UTK AS3566 111 54 57 51.4% JRIVER-LINK --- 23Oct96 --- ASnum NetsNow NetsCIDR NetGain % Gain Description AS174 1252 913 339 27.1% Performance Systems International AS3602 625 331 294 47.0% Intergrated Network Services Inc. AS2493 772 492 280 36.3% i*internet AS3301 832 571 261 31.4% TeliaNet Sweden AS279 647 416 231 35.7% SURAnet Southern AS AS3397 309 100 209 67.6% EMI-AS AS2048 350 155 195 55.7% State of Louisiana/Office of Tele AS3749 255 63 192 75.3% Tennessee Board of Regents AS1 464 323 141 30.4% BBN Planet backbone AS1691 289 152 137 47.4% BCTEL AS3804 372 236 136 36.6% WorldLinx 3 AS86 324 197 127 39.2% SURAnet Northern AS AS568 380 263 117 30.8% JIS (Joint Interconnection Servic AS560 455 343 112 24.6% BBN Planet, New England Region (N AS5769 175 64 111 63.4% Le Groupe Videotron Ltee AS2871 199 92 107 53.8% Internet Services GmbH & Co AS813 346 244 102 29.5% UUNET Canada (ASN-UUNETCA-AS1) AS2386 229 137 92 40.2% INS-AS AS2704 277 192 85 30.7% HOOKUP-NET-A AS719 524 452 72 13.7% LANLINK autonomous system AS4230 224 153 71 31.7% Embratel Brazil AS3819 101 30 71 70.3% SIGNET AS5650 189 119 70 37.0% Electric Lightwave Inc. and XMiss AS3566 128 60 68 53.1% JRIVER-LINK AS3603 105 38 67 63.8% CETCOL - Uniandes AS3996 121 55 66 54.5% FIRN AS3450 112 47 65 58.0% UTK AS3575 80 18 62 77.5% Seanet, Inc AS225 120 58 62 51.7% University of Virginia (VIRnet) AS855 127 66 61 48.0% NBTel --- 22Oct96 --- ASnum NetsNow NetsCIDR NetGain % Gain Description AS174 1243 905 338 27.2% Performance Systems International AS3602 623 329 294 47.2% Intergrated Network Services Inc. AS2493 772 492 280 36.3% i*internet AS3301 832 570 262 31.5% TeliaNet Sweden AS279 612 393 219 35.8% SURAnet Southern AS AS3397 306 98 208 68.0% EMI-AS AS3749 254 65 189 74.4% Tennessee Board of Regents AS2048 334 157 177 53.0% State of Louisiana/Office of Tele AS1 439 300 139 31.7% BBN Planet backbone AS3804 372 236 136 36.6% WorldLinx 3 AS86 324 197 127 39.2% SURAnet Northern AS AS1691 279 156 123 44.1% ANS-BLK1 AS568 379 264 115 30.3% JIS (Joint Interconnection Servic AS560 452 340 112 24.8% BBN Planet, New England Region (N AS813 353 247 106 30.0% UUNET Canada (ASN-UUNETCA-AS1) AS5769 172 67 105 61.0% Le Groupe Videotron Ltee AS2871 196 91 105 53.6% Internet Services GmbH & Co AS2386 227 132 95 41.9% INS-AS AS2704 276 192 84 30.4% HOOKUP-NET-A AS4230 221 148 73 33.0% Embratel Brazil AS719 525 453 72 13.7% LANLINK autonomous system AS3819 101 30 71 70.3% SIGNET AS3603 104 38 66 63.5% CETCOL - Uniandes AS3450 112 47 65 58.0% UTK AS3976 65 2 63 96.9% NURI-ASN AS855 128 66 62 48.4% NBTel AS3575 80 18 62 77.5% Seanet, Inc AS225 120 58 62 51.7% University of Virginia (VIRnet) AS5650 179 118 61 34.1% Electric Lightwave Inc. and XMiss AS3566 114 54 60 52.6% JRIVER-LINK --- 21Oct96 --- ASnum NetsNow NetsCIDR NetGain % Gain Description AS174 1243 902 341 27.4% Performance Systems International AS3602 622 328 294 47.3% Intergrated Network Services Inc. AS2493 768 489 279 36.3% i*internet AS3301 833 571 262 31.5% TeliaNet Sweden AS279 613 394 219 35.7% SURAnet Southern AS AS3397 306 98 208 68.0% EMI-AS AS2048 346 158 188 54.3% State of Louisiana/Office of Tele AS3749 247 61 186 75.3% Tennessee Board of Regents AS1691 292 154 138 47.3% ANS-BLK1 AS3804 374 237 137 36.6% WorldLinx 3 AS1 433 296 137 31.6% BBN Planet backbone AS86 324 197 127 39.2% SURAnet Northern AS AS568 375 259 116 30.9% JIS (Joint Interconnection Servic AS813 356 247 109 30.6% UUNET Canada (ASN-UUNETCA-AS1) AS5769 176 68 108 61.4% Le Groupe Videotron Ltee AS2871 201 94 107 53.2% Internet Services GmbH & Co AS2386 228 131 97 42.5% INS-AS AS560 422 332 90 21.3% BBN Planet, New England Region (N AS2704 274 191 83 30.3% HOOKUP-NET-A AS719 526 454 72 13.7% LANLINK autonomous system AS4230 221 149 72 32.6% Embratel Brazil AS3819 101 30 71 70.3% SIGNET AS3450 112 47 65 58.0% UTK AS855 127 65 62 48.8% NBTel AS3575 80 18 62 77.5% Seanet, Inc AS225 119 57 62 52.1% University of Virginia (VIRnet) AS5650 179 118 61 34.1% Electric Lightwave Inc. and XMiss AS3566 113 52 61 54.0% JRIVER-LINK AS3996 116 58 58 50.0% FIRN AS2711 111 54 57 51.4% SUNBELT-AS --- 20Oct96 --- ASnum NetsNow NetsCIDR NetGain % Gain Description AS174 1247 908 339 27.2% Performance Systems International AS3602 623 329 294 47.2% Intergrated Network Services Inc. AS2493 769 489 280 36.4% i*internet AS3301 833 571 262 31.5% TeliaNet Sweden AS279 611 393 218 35.7% SURAnet Southern AS AS3397 306 98 208 68.0% EMI-AS AS2048 347 155 192 55.3% State of Louisiana/Office of Tele AS3749 211 53 158 74.9% Tennessee Board of Regents AS1691 292 154 138 47.3% ANS-BLK1 AS3804 374 237 137 36.6% WorldLinx 3 AS1 434 297 137 31.6% BBN Planet backbone AS86 324 197 127 39.2% SURAnet Northern AS AS568 368 257 111 30.2% JIS (Joint Interconnection Servic AS2386 227 132 95 41.9% INS-AS AS560 420 331 89 21.2% BBN Planet, New England Region (N AS2704 273 190 83 30.4% HOOKUP-NET-A AS813 240 163 77 32.1% UUNET Canada (ASN-UUNETCA-AS1) AS719 526 454 72 13.7% LANLINK autonomous system AS3819 101 30 71 70.3% SIGNET AS2871 140 76 64 45.7% Internet Services GmbH & Co AS3575 80 18 62 77.5% Seanet, Inc AS225 119 57 62 52.1% University of Virginia (VIRnet) AS855 126 65 61 48.4% NBTel AS3566 114 53 61 53.5% JRIVER-LINK AS3603 97 38 59 60.8% CETCOL - Uniandes AS3996 116 58 58 50.0% FIRN AS2711 110 53 57 51.8% SUNBELT-AS AS4230 204 148 56 27.5% Embratel Brazil AS701 818 764 54 6.6% Alternet AS4454 64 12 52 81.2% OIR Telecommunications, State of --- 19Oct96 --- ASnum NetsNow NetsCIDR NetGain % Gain Description AS174 1243 906 337 27.1% Performance Systems International AS3602 623 329 294 47.2% Intergrated Network Services Inc. AS2493 774 491 283 36.6% i*internet AS3301 833 571 262 31.5% TeliaNet Sweden AS279 612 394 218 35.6% SURAnet Southern AS AS3397 306 98 208 68.0% EMI-AS AS3749 208 53 155 74.5% Tennessee Board of Regents AS1691 292 154 138 47.3% ANS-BLK1 AS3804 373 236 137 36.7% WorldLinx 3 AS1 433 297 136 31.4% BBN Planet backbone AS86 324 197 127 39.2% SURAnet Northern AS AS568 384 267 117 30.5% JIS (Joint Interconnection Servic AS560 447 338 109 24.4% BBN Planet, New England Region (N AS2871 201 94 107 53.2% Internet Services GmbH & Co AS2386 228 131 97 42.5% INS-AS AS2704 276 193 83 30.1% HOOKUP-NET-A AS813 238 162 76 31.9% UUNET Canada (ASN-UUNETCA-AS1) AS719 526 454 72 13.7% LANLINK autonomous system AS3819 101 30 71 70.3% SIGNET AS2048 214 143 71 33.2% State of Louisiana/Office of Tele AS4230 222 152 70 31.5% Embratel Brazil AS3450 112 47 65 58.0% UTK AS855 127 65 62 48.8% NBTel AS3575 80 18 62 77.5% Seanet, Inc AS225 119 57 62 52.1% University of Virginia (VIRnet) AS3603 97 38 59 60.8% CETCOL - Uniandes AS3996 116 58 58 50.0% FIRN AS2711 110 53 57 51.8% SUNBELT-AS AS701 824 770 54 6.6% Alternet AS5650 167 114 53 31.7% Electric Lightwave Inc. and XMiss --- 18Oct96 --- ASnum NetsNow NetsCIDR NetGain % Gain Description AS174 1246 918 328 26.3% Performance Systems International AS3602 623 329 294 47.2% Intergrated Network Services Inc. AS2493 774 491 283 36.6% i*internet AS3301 833 571 262 31.5% TeliaNet Sweden AS279 619 397 222 35.9% SURAnet Southern AS AS3397 306 98 208 68.0% EMI-AS AS3749 256 61 195 76.2% Tennessee Board of Regents AS2048 346 154 192 55.5% State of Louisiana/Office of Tele AS1691 294 152 142 48.3% ANS-BLK1 AS3804 373 236 137 36.7% WorldLinx 3 AS1 427 291 136 31.9% BBN Planet backbone AS86 323 199 124 38.4% SURAnet Northern AS AS568 384 266 118 30.7% JIS (Joint Interconnection Servic AS2871 198 92 106 53.5% Internet Services GmbH & Co AS560 433 328 105 24.2% BBN Planet, New England Region (N AS2386 225 130 95 42.2% INS-AS AS2704 277 193 84 30.3% HOOKUP-NET-A AS813 240 164 76 31.7% UUNET Canada (ASN-UUNETCA-AS1) AS719 527 455 72 13.7% LANLINK autonomous system AS4230 219 147 72 32.9% Embratel Brazil AS3819 101 30 71 70.3% SIGNET AS1785 306 239 67 21.9% NYSERNet Backbone AS3450 112 47 65 58.0% UTK AS855 127 65 62 48.8% NBTel AS3575 80 18 62 77.5% Seanet, Inc AS3996 117 57 60 51.3% FIRN AS3603 97 38 59 60.8% CETCOL - Uniandes AS3566 114 55 59 51.8% JRIVER-LINK AS225 118 60 58 49.2% University of Virginia (VIRnet) AS2711 111 54 57 51.4% SUNBELT-AS 2) Weekly Delta This a daily snapshot of changes in classful routes being withdrawn and added. the deltas are calculated over a rolling 7 day period. Please bear in mind this is purely a "snapshot" and a large flucuation could be caused by a connectivity problem for example. However, this does give some indication of service providers that are moving to classless routing. Top 20 Withdrawn Routes from 18Oct96 to 25Oct96 -168 AS1785 NYSERNet Backbone -76 AS719 LANLINK autonomous system -40 AS3973 AS-SPRINTLINK-NYSERN2 -39 AS568 JIS (Joint Interconnection Servic -27 AS3972 AS-SPRINTLINK-NYSERN1 -24 AS1267 IUNET-AS -19 AS2874 Global One Services AB -18 AS3255 Ukrainian Academic and Research N -17 AS1292 ITESM Campus -- Monterrey -16 AS376 RISQ Backbone -15 AS3566 JRIVER-LINK -13 AS3628 NYSERNET-BLK -12 AS6499 PFI -11 AS1793 SprintLink Chicago IL -9 AS3749 Tennessee Board of Regents -8 AS3343 RUNNet -7 AS3354 THENET-AS-1 -6 AS3652 SPRINT-BB-NETBLK -5 AS6782 AS for the county net in Norrbott -4 AS6130 ADN-WEST Top 20 Added Routes from 18Oct96 to 25Oct96 115 AS813 UUNET Canada (ASN-UUNETCA-AS1) 102 AS5769 Le Groupe Videotron Ltee 44 AS4983 Intel Corporation Autonomous Syst 35 AS1221 AARNET-AS 27 AS5650 Electric Lightwave Inc. and XMiss 24 AS174 Performance Systems International 22 AS1 BBN Planet backbone 21 AS2561 Egyptian Networks 18 AS3559 KORNET-3559 Autonomous-system 17 AS6474 FLASHNET-AS 15 AS4230 Embratel Brazil 14 AS2277 ECUANET 13 AS2548 DIGEX-AS 11 AS6332 TELNOR 9 AS5519 Xara Networks UK AS 8 AS6347 DIAMOND 7 AS3632 INFOTEC-RTN 6 AS3564 Microserve Infromation Systems In 5 AS2568 CTSNET 4 AS3576 PREPnet-EAST 3) Interesting aggregates List of possibly interesting aggregates --------------------------------------- aggregate origin-AS AS Description 9.2.0.0/16 AS1747 IBM Watson, Yorktown Heights, 9.20.0.0/17 AS2686 Autonomous System number for I 9.67.0.0/19 AS3561 MCI 57.12.0.0/16 AS5384 Etisalat Emirates Internet 128.145.228.0/24 AS174 Performance Systems Internatio 128.167.7.0/24 AS86 SURAnet Northern AS 128.188.1.0/24 AS560 BBN Planet, New England Region 129.181.216.0/22 AS517 Xlink 130.168.105.0/24 AS1270 EUnet Germany 130.168.115.0/24 AS1270 EUnet Germany 130.168.125.0/24 AS1270 EUnet Germany 130.188.2.0/24 AS565 VTT autonomous system 130.188.3.0/24 AS565 VTT autonomous system 130.188.150.0/24 AS565 VTT autonomous system 130.188.250.0/24 AS565 VTT autonomous system 130.188.252.0/24 AS565 VTT autonomous system 130.205.64.0/18 AS3561 MCI 130.252.178.0/24 AS1321 ANS San Francisco - DNSS 11 131.114.192.0/18 AS2598 Consiglio Nazionale delle Rice 131.115.211.0/24 AS3301 TeliaNet Sweden 131.115.254.0/24 AS3301 TeliaNet Sweden 131.117.0.0/17 AS559 SWITCH, Swiss Academic and Res 132.235.204.0/24 AS3561 MCI 134.6.160.0/22 AS2706 HKSUPER 134.6.180.0/24 AS2706 HKSUPER 134.33.100.0/24 AS701 Alternet 134.129.64.0/18 AS6263 NDIN 134.198.8.0/21 AS3593 Eastern Pennsylvania Internet 134.198.16.0/21 AS3593 Eastern Pennsylvania Internet 134.198.24.0/21 AS3593 Eastern Pennsylvania Internet 134.198.32.0/21 AS3593 Eastern Pennsylvania Internet 134.198.40.0/21 AS3593 Eastern Pennsylvania Internet 134.198.48.0/21 AS3593 Eastern Pennsylvania Internet 134.198.56.0/21 AS3593 Eastern Pennsylvania Internet 134.198.64.0/21 AS3593 Eastern Pennsylvania Internet 134.198.72.0/21 AS3593 Eastern Pennsylvania Internet 134.198.96.0/21 AS3593 Eastern Pennsylvania Internet 134.198.168.0/21 AS3593 Eastern Pennsylvania Internet 134.198.192.0/21 AS3593 Eastern Pennsylvania Internet 134.198.232.0/21 AS3593 Eastern Pennsylvania Internet 134.198.240.0/21 AS3593 Eastern Pennsylvania Internet 134.204.14.0/24 AS3561 MCI 134.204.176.0/24 AS3561 MCI 134.241.109.0/24 AS560 BBN Planet, New England Region 135.14.65.0/24 AS3111 Internet Direct Inc. (ASN-DIRE 135.16.150.0/24 AS560 BBN Planet, New England Region 135.37.2.0/24 AS3561 MCI 135.37.4.0/24 AS3561 MCI 135.37.10.0/24 AS3561 MCI 135.40.66.0/24 AS3561 MCI 136.140.9.0/24 AS3561 MCI 137.62.197.0/24 AS1794 SprintLink Pennsauken NJ 138.95.80.0/24 AS701 Alternet 138.108.100.0/24 AS3561 MCI 138.182.252.0/24 AS5855 Secretary of the Navy 138.182.254.0/24 AS5855 Secretary of the Navy 139.46.35.0/24 AS560 BBN Planet, New England Region 139.61.102.0/24 AS3111 Internet Direct Inc. (ASN-DIRE 139.61.103.0/24 AS3111 Internet Direct Inc. (ASN-DIRE 139.162.128.0/17 AS1136 Unisource Internet Service NL 140.188.33.0/24 AS174 Performance Systems Internatio 140.188.64.0/24 AS174 Performance Systems Internatio 140.188.86.0/24 AS174 Performance Systems Internatio 140.188.129.0/24 AS174 Performance Systems Internatio 140.188.148.0/24 AS174 Performance Systems Internatio 140.188.198.0/24 AS174 Performance Systems Internatio 140.188.246.0/24 AS174 Performance Systems Internatio 140.188.248.0/24 AS174 Performance Systems Internatio 140.231.44.0/24 AS3561 MCI 141.227.111.0/24 AS2529 Demon Internet Ltd 142.77.19.0/24 AS813 UUNET Canada (ASN-UUNETCA-AS1) 142.77.248.0/24 AS813 UUNET Canada (ASN-UUNETCA-AS1) 142.218.120.0/24 AS2551 NETCOM On-line Communication S 143.93.32.0/19 AS517 Xlink 143.222.116.0/24 AS3407 Interpath 143.252.80.0/24 AS2856 BTnet UK Regional network 144.192.181.0/24 AS4200 AGIS (Apex Global Information 144.199.161.0/24 AS1238 ICM Malaysia (MIMOS) connectee 145.17.100.0/24 AS2856 BTnet UK Regional network 145.72.32.0/19 AS5484 BT Netherlands Regional Servic 145.72.64.0/19 AS5484 BT Netherlands Regional Servic 145.246.16.0/24 AS2856 BTnet UK Regional network 145.246.17.0/24 AS2856 BTnet UK Regional network 145.248.112.0/24 AS2706 HKSUPER 145.248.155.0/24 AS2706 HKSUPER 145.248.157.0/24 AS2706 HKSUPER 145.248.159.0/24 AS2706 HKSUPER 145.248.161.0/24 AS2706 HKSUPER 145.248.165.0/24 AS2706 HKSUPER 146.75.251.0/24 AS3301 TeliaNet Sweden 146.75.253.0/24 AS1257 SWIPnet Swedish IP Network 146.75.254.0/24 AS3301 TeliaNet Sweden 146.193.60.0/22 AS2860 IP Global, Informatica e Telec 147.85.21.0/24 AS3951 ICONNET 147.85.25.0/24 AS3951 ICONNET 147.85.39.0/24 AS3951 ICONNET 147.85.44.0/24 AS3951 ICONNET 147.85.51.0/24 AS3951 ICONNET 147.85.115.0/24 AS3951 ICONNET 147.160.0.0/17 AS3561 MCI 147.160.128.0/18 AS3561 MCI 147.160.192.0/20 AS3561 MCI 147.160.208.0/20 AS3561 MCI 147.160.224.0/20 AS3561 MCI 147.160.224.0/19 AS3561 MCI 147.206.20.0/24 AS3561 MCI 148.59.1.0/24 AS2015 Msen, Inc. 148.59.2.0/24 AS2015 Msen, Inc. 148.59.4.0/24 AS2015 Msen, Inc. 148.59.5.0/24 AS2015 Msen, Inc. 148.59.6.0/24 AS2015 Msen, Inc. 148.59.8.0/24 AS2015 Msen, Inc. 148.59.14.0/24 AS2015 Msen, Inc. 148.59.15.0/24 AS2015 Msen, Inc. 148.59.16.0/24 AS2015 Msen, Inc. 148.59.18.0/24 AS2015 Msen, Inc. 148.59.19.0/24 AS2015 Msen, Inc. 148.59.21.0/24 AS2015 Msen, Inc. 148.59.222.0/24 AS2015 Msen, Inc. 148.59.224.0/24 AS2015 Msen, Inc. 148.59.226.0/24 AS2015 Msen, Inc. 148.59.228.0/24 AS2015 Msen, Inc. 148.59.229.0/24 AS2015 Msen, Inc. 148.59.232.0/24 AS2015 Msen, Inc. 148.59.234.0/24 AS2015 Msen, Inc. 148.59.235.0/24 AS2015 Msen, Inc. 148.59.237.0/24 AS2015 Msen, Inc. 148.59.238.0/24 AS2015 Msen, Inc. 148.59.241.0/24 AS2015 Msen, Inc. 148.59.242.0/24 AS2015 Msen, Inc. 148.59.244.0/24 AS2015 Msen, Inc. 148.59.246.0/24 AS2015 Msen, Inc. 148.59.247.0/24 AS2015 Msen, Inc. 148.59.250.0/24 AS2015 Msen, Inc. 148.59.251.0/24 AS2015 Msen, Inc. 148.59.252.0/24 AS2015 Msen, Inc. 148.94.210.0/24 AS5714 EDS-WEBS 148.185.45.0/24 AS1849 PIPEX, Public IP EXchange 148.252.1.0/24 AS1849 PIPEX, Public IP EXchange 149.20.4.0/24 AS1239 SprintLink Backbone 149.20.64.0/24 AS701 Alternet 149.212.64.0/20 AS1759 Telecom Finland iNET 149.236.92.0/24 AS6292 FCI 150.61.5.1/32 AS2500 WIDE Internet AS 150.100.52.0/24 AS1792 SprintLink Stockton CA 150.185.128.0/18 AS1800 ICM-Atlantic 150.185.192.0/18 AS1800 ICM-Atlantic 152.129.186.0/24 AS4478 PNET-STL 152.163.199.0/24 AS2056 AOL-AS 152.163.200.0/24 AS2056 AOL-AS 152.163.231.0/24 AS2056 AOL-AS 152.163.232.0/23 AS2056 AOL-AS 152.163.234.0/23 AS2056 AOL-AS 152.175.128.0/17 AS1667 ANS-BLK1 152.179.0.0/17 AS1321 ANS San Francisco - DNSS 11 152.181.128.0/17 AS-set UNKNOWN 152.181.184.0/22 AS1667 ANS-BLK1 152.187.0.0/17 AS1321 ANS San Francisco - DNSS 11 152.189.128.0/17 AS1327 ANS Washington D.C. - DNSS 59 152.189.184.0/22 AS1667 ANS-BLK1 153.96.80.0/21 AS517 Xlink 153.96.92.0/24 AS517 Xlink 153.96.188.0/22 AS517 Xlink 153.96.230.0/24 AS517 Xlink 155.39.191.0/24 AS2685 IBM Global Network - US 155.134.60.0/24 AS701 Alternet 155.140.124.0/24 AS1849 PIPEX, Public IP EXchange 155.203.254.0/24 AS3561 MCI 155.229.120.0/21 AS4565 HLC Internet 155.229.176.0/21 AS7045 WEATHER 156.51.204.0/24 AS3301 TeliaNet Sweden 156.114.200.0/24 AS2529 Demon Internet Ltd 157.184.150.0/24 AS1330 ANS St. Louis - DNSS 83 157.232.100.0/24 AS3561 MCI 158.43.200.0/24 AS701 Alternet 158.118.51.0/24 AS701 Alternet 158.155.24.0/22 AS1221 AARNET-AS 158.174.254.0/24 AS2856 BTnet UK Regional network 159.24.7.0/24 AS4286 IMCI 159.87.34.0/24 AS200 BBN Planet Western Region 159.179.0.0/24 AS3561 MCI 159.197.158.0/23 AS2529 Demon Internet Ltd 159.245.84.0/22 AS1849 PIPEX, Public IP EXchange 159.245.104.0/22 AS1849 PIPEX, Public IP EXchange 160.92.129.0/24 AS2917 OLEANE - PIPEX International 160.104.0.0/17 AS701 Alternet 160.104.128.0/17 AS1290 PSINet UK Ltd. 161.6.0.0/17 AS3561 MCI 161.6.128.0/17 AS3561 MCI 161.22.0.0/24 AS1790 SprintLink Washington D.C. 161.51.224.0/20 AS1849 PIPEX, Public IP EXchange 161.52.192.0/19 AS2845 SUNET-LUND 161.120.6.0/24 AS3561 MCI 161.173.243.0/24 AS2386 INS-AS 161.223.220.0/22 AS1 BBN Planet backbone 161.223.224.0/24 AS1 BBN Planet backbone 162.17.253.0/24 AS174 Performance Systems Internatio 162.81.141.0/24 AS3561 MCI 163.12.0.0/23 AS3576 PREPnet-EAST 163.12.5.0/24 AS3576 PREPnet-EAST 163.12.8.0/21 AS3576 PREPnet-EAST 163.12.16.0/22 AS3576 PREPnet-EAST 163.12.21.0/24 AS3576 PREPnet-EAST 163.12.22.0/24 AS3576 PREPnet-EAST 163.12.23.0/24 AS3576 PREPnet-EAST 163.12.24.0/21 AS3576 PREPnet-EAST 163.12.32.0/19 AS3576 PREPnet-EAST 163.12.64.0/20 AS3576 PREPnet-EAST 163.12.81.0/24 AS3576 PREPnet-EAST 163.12.82.0/23 AS3576 PREPnet-EAST 163.12.84.0/22 AS3576 PREPnet-EAST 163.12.88.0/21 AS3576 PREPnet-EAST 163.12.96.0/19 AS3576 PREPnet-EAST 163.12.128.0/21 AS3576 PREPnet-EAST 163.12.136.0/22 AS3576 PREPnet-EAST 163.12.144.0/20 AS3576 PREPnet-EAST 163.12.160.0/19 AS3576 PREPnet-EAST 163.12.192.0/21 AS3576 PREPnet-EAST 163.12.240.0/20 AS3576 PREPnet-EAST 163.49.131.0/24 AS3561 MCI 163.49.132.0/22 AS3561 MCI 163.49.136.0/22 AS3561 MCI 163.49.140.0/23 AS3561 MCI 163.49.142.0/24 AS3561 MCI 163.168.212.0/24 AS3303 Unisource Business Networks (S 163.249.43.0/24 AS3739 NEWNET 163.249.53.0/24 AS3739 NEWNET 163.249.54.0/24 AS3739 NEWNET 163.249.57.0/24 AS3739 NEWNET 163.249.140.0/22 AS3739 NEWNET 163.249.160.0/21 AS3739 NEWNET 163.249.168.0/24 AS3739 NEWNET 163.249.169.0/24 AS3739 NEWNET 163.249.170.0/24 AS3739 NEWNET 164.52.249.0/24 AS1982 Northwest Nexus, Inc. 164.53.55.0/24 AS2706 HKSUPER 164.100.64.0/20 AS3561 MCI 164.100.80.0/24 AS4755 Videsh Sanchar Nigam Ltd. Indi 164.100.81.0/24 AS3561 MCI 164.100.82.0/23 AS3561 MCI 164.100.84.0/22 AS3561 MCI 164.100.88.0/21 AS3561 MCI 164.100.96.0/19 AS3561 MCI 164.100.167.0/24 AS3561 MCI 164.100.199.0/24 AS4755 Videsh Sanchar Nigam Ltd. Indi 164.103.3.0/24 AS3561 MCI 164.224.208.0/20 AS5855 Secretary of the Navy 165.108.130.0/24 AS3561 MCI 165.108.130.0/23 AS3561 MCI 165.108.132.0/22 AS3561 MCI 165.108.136.0/21 AS3561 MCI 165.108.144.0/22 AS3561 MCI 165.108.148.0/23 AS3561 MCI 165.113.197.0/24 AS6006 UNKNOWN 165.113.198.0/24 AS6006 UNKNOWN 165.113.199.0/24 AS6006 UNKNOWN 165.113.211.0/24 AS6006 UNKNOWN 165.113.219.0/24 AS6006 UNKNOWN 165.166.123.0/24 AS3561 MCI 165.215.64.0/18 AS4183 CompuServe, Incorporated 165.215.191.0/24 AS5090 CWI-NYD 165.247.33.0/24 AS5696 Primary AS for GoodNet 165.247.47.0/24 AS5696 Primary AS for GoodNet 165.247.77.0/24 AS5696 Primary AS for GoodNet 166.38.40.0/24 AS3561 MCI 166.147.0.0/18 AS3561 MCI 166.147.64.0/18 AS3561 MCI 166.147.128.0/18 AS3561 MCI 166.147.192.0/18 AS3561 MCI 166.150.0.0/18 AS3561 MCI 166.150.64.0/18 AS3561 MCI 166.150.128.0/18 AS3561 MCI 166.150.192.0/18 AS3561 MCI 166.151.0.0/18 AS3561 MCI 166.151.64.0/18 AS3561 MCI 166.151.128.0/18 AS3561 MCI 166.151.192.0/18 AS3561 MCI 167.77.32.0/24 AS3561 MCI 167.105.232.0/24 AS3561 MCI 167.170.6.0/23 AS3313 I.Net S.p.A. 167.170.32.0/23 AS3313 I.Net S.p.A. 167.208.125.0/24 AS3561 MCI 168.14.1.0/24 AS3561 MCI 168.14.2.0/23 AS3561 MCI 168.14.4.0/22 AS3561 MCI 168.14.8.0/21 AS3561 MCI 168.14.16.0/20 AS3561 MCI 168.29.0.0/17 AS3492 ATLANTA 168.175.70.0/24 AS3561 MCI 168.175.170.0/24 AS3561 MCI 168.175.171.0/24 AS3561 MCI 168.175.172.0/24 AS3561 MCI 168.224.128.0/24 AS2856 BTnet UK Regional network 168.247.253.0/24 AS174 Performance Systems Internatio 168.247.254.0/24 AS174 Performance Systems Internatio 169.132.80.0/24 AS5000 IDT Corporation 169.137.170.0/24 AS3407 Interpath 169.200.1.0/24 AS3561 MCI 170.115.249.0/24 AS4969 Net Access 170.194.51.0/24 AS1849 PIPEX, Public IP EXchange 170.204.82.0/23 AS1791 SprintLink Fort Worth TX 170.204.84.0/24 AS1791 SprintLink Fort Worth TX 171.18.1.0/24 AS3215 RAIN 171.25.128.0/20 AS3301 TeliaNet Sweden 171.25.128.0/19 AS3301 TeliaNet Sweden 171.25.144.0/21 AS3301 TeliaNet Sweden 171.25.152.0/21 AS3301 TeliaNet Sweden 171.30.170.0/24 AS2856 BTnet UK Regional network 194.23.1.36/30 AS3305 Internet Service Provider back 194.44.209.152/29 AS3255 Ukrainian Academic and Researc 194.44.209.196/32 AS3255 Ukrainian Academic and Researc 194.178.245.32/28 AS5417 Demon Internet Ltd 194.237.174.0/29 AS3301 TeliaNet Sweden 194.237.174.8/29 AS3301 TeliaNet Sweden 194.237.174.32/27 AS3308 TeliaNet Denmark 199.99.247.32/27 AS174 Performance Systems Internatio 199.233.98.0/25 AS6082 MAI Network Services 199.233.98.128/25 AS6082 MAI Network Services 202.50.137.64/27 AS2687 IBM Global Network - AP 204.6.105.64/26 AS2529 Demon Internet Ltd 204.148.62.0/26 AS1673 ANS-BLK1 205.156.223.176/28 AS2702 Spry AS 207.65.126.0/26 AS6203 ISDN-Net Inc.

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Re: Inter-provider relations
by Mark Cole 25 Oct '96

25 Oct '96

At 10:16 AM 10/25/96 -0400, Peter Kline wrote: >At 03:25 PM 10/24/96 -0400, JDF wrote: >> ....and I'm sure Gordon will write: ....and a few dozen others will write: But I - for one - will unsubscibe (once I figure out how).... I joined this list back when there was a good reason. Agis had some serious problems, and still are not problem free. But these kind of attacks are unneeded, useless and time wasting. Agis has improved dramtically - I wonder about the need for a list *like this*. The problem with unsubscibing is that it's like a soap opera - hard to stop watching... but I guess I should have better things to do. Well written response Peter - I regret having to unsubscribe as this is the only time I get to hear from you - but please keep improving, growing, and good luck with Gordy. BTW - I'm writing this after just having recovered from a serious Agis outage, caused by a mistake on their end. To their credit, they hung in there and got an honest mistake fixed (specifically Paula) and we're up again. I guess I could blast them like some others seem to need to, but why? We all make mistakes, we're all growing fast, and this stuff ain't easy... I'll stick by someone who just plain works hard to make it better even if it is kind of rough (and as long as I have a backup T) NetRunner Inc. -- 12173 South Dixie Highway, Miami FL 33156 305 255-5800 -- (305) 255-5493 (fax) markcole(a)netrunner.net -------------------------------------------------------------- V.34, ISDN, and WWW -- Business Connections to the Internet --------------------------------------------------------------

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Packet loss on MAE-East
by Alex.Bligh 25 Oct '96

25 Oct '96

Is anyone on MAE-East shared FDDI seeing about 5-10% packet loss to anyone not on shared FDDI? Alex Bligh Xara Networks

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Re: Provider credibility - does it matter? was Re: Inter-provider relations
by azeem＠dial.pipex.com 25 Oct '96

25 Oct '96

>AGIS is currently serving more than 200 cities in the United States with >points of presence (POPs) for Internet access, and has dedicated service >available in almost 50 countries. In addition, the company provides >backbone services to more than 700 of the estimated 3000 Internet service >providers (ISPs) around the world. > >Cook: 700 isps? Gosh. That's impressive. Anyone got any data on when they >overtook MCI, Sprint, and UUNET in market share? Leased line access to >almost 50 countries round the world? Any one seen the map of their global >network? Anyone got a list of their foreign pops? Or are they claiming >LDDS lines and POPs in this country and abroad as though they (AGIS) owned >them all. I had a long conversation with Phil Lawlor, AGIS top cheese, a couple of weeks ago: they provide IP services to ISPs in dozens of countries. These connections aren't provided by AGIS pops abroad by via international leased circuits or over international frame relay networks (like Concert). Does this mean that AGIS doesn't provide services in "50 countries"? Mmmmmm . .

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Re: Ungodly packet loss rates
by salo＠msc.edu 25 Oct '96

25 Oct '96

I read with great interest the "Ungodly packet loss rates" thread. It appears that an Internet user did a reasonably good job of articulating his frustration with the quality of Internet service he was receiving. The response from the nanog list was generally unsympathetic, (with a very few notable exceptions such as Kent, Curtis and Tony). The user was told that his mail was "inappropriate" and was even called a "whiner" and told to "shut up," (comments which apparently were not considered inappropriate). I had a couple of thoughts about this thread: o If I were writing an Internet-II proposal, I would consider using this thread to bolster my case that my community of interest needs an Internet VPN such as Internet-II because the Internet operations community is unreceptive to complaints about the service I am receiving. o If I were reviewing Internet-II proposals, I might hope that I got done with my reviews before, for example, a University president sent mail to nanog complaining about the Internet service his or her university was receiving. -tjs

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