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Spam Haters list
by Brett L. Hawn 22 Feb '97

22 Feb '97

Since I offered, I've done so... I just finished up setting up the 'spamhaters' list here at nol.net, it is private, requires owner approval for subscriptions/submissions and requires confirmation from the subscriber themselves. If you would like to join the list please email spamhaters-request(a)nol.net. [-] Brett L. Hawn (blh @ nol dot net) [-] [-] Networks On-Line - Houston, Texas [-] [-] 713-467-7100 [-]

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franchises
by randy＠psg.com 22 Feb '97

22 Feb '97

I have been asked to help two different municipalities understand franchise models and norms for fiber CAP and for cable-IP. If you have some clues, I would appreciate Email, as this is probably not a NANOG discussion. randy

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Re: How to spam nicely?
by Vadim Antonov 22 Feb '97

22 Feb '97

The recipe for being a "good" bulk mailer is simple -- never send any bulk mail to people who didn't explicitly ask for it. But then, that's what you're already doing. (I'd also add a specific question on wherer a person wants to receive e-mail on your product registration form, if you don't have it there already). (A usual pitfall is not providing a user with an easy way to unsubscibe, and catching invalid addresses -- but modern mailing-list software handles that just fine). Provide a registration form at your Web site. Make Web site interesting and informative. People will come (my company's website already logged over 50k hits, though there were no any other advertisements or PR activity). Good luck! --vadim

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On the subject of spam...
by Meg Jahnke 22 Feb '97

22 Feb '97

Thought this might be of some interest since we've been talking about spam lately (I personally like the bit about "net cops" :-) Full headers included for your amusement. -meg meg(a)cerf.net > Forwarded message: > From productlink(a)usa.net Fri Feb 21 19:06:01 1997 > Return-Path: productlink(a)usa.net > Received: from mtigwc03.worldnet.att.net (mailhost.worldnet.att.net > [204.127.131.3]) by nic.cerf.net (8.8.5/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA05271 for <meg(a)cerf.net>; > Fri, 21 Feb 1997 19:10:29 -0800 (PST) > Message-Id: <199702220310.TAA05271(a)nic.cerf.net> > Received: from q.qqq.com ([206.171.250.44]) by mtigwc03.worldnet.att.net > (post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with SMTP id AAA3017; > Sat, 22 Feb 1997 03:06:50 +0000 > From: Product Link <productlink(a)usa.net> > Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 19:08:48 PST > Subject: We Will Send Your Bulk Email > Status: R > > *If you want to be removed from our mailing list, please respond to this > email and put "Remove" in the subject line. > > We will send out your bulk E Mail. Period. No qualifiers, no conditions, > no nonsense...and we'll do it at the best prices. > > We are Product Link. We are a business partner with a marketing > company which develops buyers for its clients' products through electronic > marketing; primarily broadcast fax. Together, we have over a hundred clients, > almost 10% of which are Fortune 500 companies. We have numerous staff, > and have just begun, at client request, to send high volumes of E Mail. > > If you're new to bulk E Mail marketing, as we were a short time ago, I can > confirm that all the E Mails you've been getting from E Mail software > companies about how great E Mail marketing is; well, they're true. However, > as those of you who have already purchased software and have tried bulk > E mail know, nothing good ever comes easy. > > Our staff has spent millions of advertising dollars on our clients' behalf; > everything from commercials on the Superbowl to ads in the New York Times, > to full page spreads in Scientific American.; not to mention the sending > of over 1,000,000 marketing faxes a year for major corporations. > > Bulk E mail has been quite an eye opener. > > The Internet, the on line services and ISP providers are full of shrill, > self appointed "net cops," whose mission in life seems to be dumping on those > who have the audacity to sell product via E Mail. I don't wish nor intend > to debate the issue here, except to say that if you've purchased bulk E Mail > software (or intend to), you've already found out that when you attempt to > use it, your ISP provider will shut you down, your E Mail account will be > bombed, and electronic flames will become a way of life. > > Since we have a low tolerance for allowing small groups of vocal fanatics > to dictate our business life, we set up our own system to send out Bulk > E Mail. This system will be greatly expanded in 30 days or so (we're > installing more T lines), but we currently have room on our system to send > out Bulk E Mail for a limited number of companies or individuals other > than ourselves. > > We'll send out your order, large or small. We'll do it quickly, and > we'll do it at a really great price. You can supply the list, or we'll > supply the list. Place an order with us, and we'll give you advice on > how to set up your E Mail so your on line service won't shut you down, how > to write your material, and much more. We will also write your marketing > material, if you so desire. If you supply a list, we can run it through > our computer program to sort out all duplicates and bad AOL or CompuServe > addresses. If you buy a list from us, we will guarantee that the exact > number of names you order will go out; if we send a list for you and a > number of addresses are not delivered, we will send out more E Mails until > you get delivered exactly what you ordered. We can even tell you how to > confirm that your list was sent. > > We also have programs that can filter out E Mail "bombs" and other > irritating toys played with at your expense by people who don't > have a life. > > When we first began exploring bulk E mail, we contacted numerous firms > advertising that they would send out bulk E mail. What we got was > answering machines, disconnected numbers, and no call backs. The one firm > that did contract us would only send limited numbers of E mails for > us, and then only if we had already sent the list out once and taken off all > the removes (go figure...if we could send out the list once, what did we > need them for?). We finally got so exasperated, we set up our own system. > And are we glad we did. Speaking as a marketing man with over 30 years > experience in major advertising, E Mail marketing will change the face of > advertising and cost of sale forever. I do not believe that has ever been > a vehicle like it in history to allow anyone of any size and any budget to > advertise and sell their products literally overnight. We employ 18 people, > and I guarantee you that when you E Mail us back, you'll get a call. > Right away. And the office phone number we give you, will have a live > person at the other end. > > Following is a price list to give you an idea of the > quality of our company. Please bear in mind that Bulk E Mail is > effective in large numbers; i.e., 25,000 and above. > > Price List To Send Bulk E Mail: > > Amount Cost Set Up (One Time Fee) > > 25,000 $150.00 $50.00 > > 50,000 $275.00 $50.00 > > 75,000 $400.00 $50.00 > > 100,000 $550.00 $50.00 > > > Bulk E Mail amounts above 100,000 per sending will be bid on a > case by case basis. If you wish to modem us a list, there may be a > small charge for down load depending on list size. If you wish us to >"clean" your list (remove all duplicates and bad addresses), we will supply a > bid on a case by case basis as with writing your marketing materials and > other services. > > If we may be of service to you, respond to this email with your name, > company name, and phone number, or may also call us directly at > (805) 654-4042. Thank you. >

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How to spam nicely?
by Joseph C. Pistritto 22 Feb '97

22 Feb '97

Ok, now that I have your attention. I'd like suggestions from members of the community on the best way to do bulk mailings to our user base (not product recommendations specifically or anything like that), but obvious pitfalls to watch out for. Our "mass mailing" policy in general has been pretty net-friendly, in that we only send mail to people who have registered our product at the address they gave us when they did so (we don't buy lists, etc.), and might be interested in the specific thing we're telling them about, and we only attempt to send each person mail once. We also don't do this very often and keep our mailing lists pretty current. So, any suggestions to make our having to send a bunch of mail more pleasant for the rest of the net? If any of you out there have specific experience with bulk mailing, I'd love to hear about it to avoid stepping on land mines others have already "detected", etc. Thanks in advance. -jcp-

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Re: Cyber Promotions
by John R. Sosebee 21 Feb '97

21 Feb '97

At 05:27 PM 2/20/97 -0700, Christian Nielsen wrote: >On Thu, 20 Feb 1997, Deepak Jain wrote: > There is a piece on NPR this morning about Cyber Promotions and how they are in court now with AOL, Prodigy ... and "others" for blocking their mail by using domain names .. Cyber Promotions says this is a very valuable service for many people ... aaaaaahhhhhhhhhh !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! >X-> >X->Question is, who *will* be their upstream provider? As soon as you know >X->an address block for their ?new? network(s), please let us all know. > >well, my guess would be > >Cyberpromotions Email Service (MASSMARKET2-DOM) MASSMARKET.COM > >by............ > > >cyberpromo.philadelphia1.agis.net (206.185.158.2) > > >Agis..... > > >matterhorn:~$ whois cyberpromotions >Cyberpromotions Email Service (BU1KEMAI-DOM) BU1KEMAI1.COM >Cyberpromotions Email Service (EMAIL2YOU-DOM) EMAIL2YOU.COM >Cyberpromotions Email Service (MASSMARKET2-DOM) MASSMARKET.COM >Cyberpromotions Email Service (STOPTHEBLOCK-DOM) STOPTHEBLOCK.COM >Cyberpromotions Email Service (SENDER2-DOM) SENDER3.COM >Cyberpromotions Email Service (SENDERTHREE-DOM) SENDERTHREE3.COM >Cyberpromotions Email Service (BULKMAGNET-DOM) BULKMAGNET.COM >Cyberpromotions Email Service (BULKINTERNET-DOM) BULKINTERNET.COM >Cyberpromotions Email Service (BULKREADIT-DOM) BULKREADIT.COM >Cyberpromotions Email Service (BULKPOWER-DOM) BULKPOWER.COM >Cyberpromotions Email Service (BULKSEEIT-DOM) BULKSEEIT.COM >Cyberpromotions Email Service (BULKINQUIRIES-DOM) BULKINQUIRIES.COM >Cyberpromotions Email Service (BULKRESPONSES-DOM) BULKRESPONSES.COM >Cyberpromotions Email Service (BULKSENDIT-DOM) BULKSENDIT.COM > > >Christian > John sosebee(a)bellsouth.net (770) 392-4300

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Information Sharing
by Hostmaster[IP Registration] 21 Feb '97

21 Feb '97

Anyone with RFC references, technical sources or URLs related to the following topics would be greatly appreciated: EIGRP When an IP number is assigned to a network, does it appear as a table entry in a router at some location or does it appear only as a possible path from a specific ASN (speaking on a global level--as it would appear from an Internet access point).

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Re: Flapping /16 prefix, why?
by Rob Liebschutz 21 Feb '97

21 Feb '97

> Sorry for littering NANOG with this email, but I'm hoping for a little > education on this matter from some of the larger National Service > Providers. > > This morning we had a customer call in concerning a network hole. > Upon investigation, I found the following.. > > BGP routing table entry for 166.82.0.0/16, version 541808 > Paths: (1 available, best #1, advertised over IBGP, EBGP) > 1793 1239 1790 3505 3505 > 144.228.159.17 from 144.228.159.17 (144.228.159.1) > Origin IGP, metric 0, valid, external, best > Community: 1 > Dampinfo: penalty 656, flapped 18 times in 02:19:29 > > Two immediate things came to mind here. > > 1. This is a /16 that is flapping. > 2. The end user is using AS path prepending for some reason. > > With these two facts in mind, the following questions arise. > > Anchoring or tying down of a route with a static route to null seems > to be a very basic idea (far more basic that AS path prepending), so > why isn't this route tied down? If their is a link flapping somewhere between the border of the AS where the route is announced and your network, your going to see flapping regardless of weather the route is tied down. I previously though that tying down my routes was the best thing. This may be so for the heath of the Internet, but I've had substantial problems with the LAN interface on one of my routers. Everytime the LAN interface goes down, my routes would get blackholed. So the Health of the Internet may be better if I tie down my route, but, my customers will be happier if a failure on my LAN interface causes my traffic to be routed over another NAP instead of blackholed. On another of my routers, on which I've never had problems with the LAN interface, I do tie the route down. > > I only see one route to this prefix, why are they prepending? (I admit > that only the user of this prefix can answer this question, and I also > admit that with 53 flaps on the books so far, the other provider may > be dampening the route for us *thank you*) > > Finally, does Sprint not apply *any* dampening to customer routes? > > > > My cat is long dead (10 years at least), so it's safe from my curiosity. > > Chris A. Icide > Nap.Net, L.L.C. > >

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Flapping /16 prefix, why?
by Chris A. Icide 21 Feb '97

21 Feb '97

Sorry for littering NANOG with this email, but I'm hoping for a little education on this matter from some of the larger National Service Providers. This morning we had a customer call in concerning a network hole. Upon investigation, I found the following.. BGP routing table entry for 166.82.0.0/16, version 541808 Paths: (1 available, best #1, advertised over IBGP, EBGP) 1793 1239 1790 3505 3505 144.228.159.17 from 144.228.159.17 (144.228.159.1) Origin IGP, metric 0, valid, external, best Community: 1 Dampinfo: penalty 656, flapped 18 times in 02:19:29 Two immediate things came to mind here. 1. This is a /16 that is flapping. 2. The end user is using AS path prepending for some reason. With these two facts in mind, the following questions arise. Anchoring or tying down of a route with a static route to null seems to be a very basic idea (far more basic that AS path prepending), so why isn't this route tied down? I only see one route to this prefix, why are they prepending? (I admit that only the user of this prefix can answer this question, and I also admit that with 53 flaps on the books so far, the other provider may be dampening the route for us *thank you*) Finally, does Sprint not apply *any* dampening to customer routes? My cat is long dead (10 years at least), so it's safe from my curiosity. Chris A. Icide Nap.Net, L.L.C.

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Re: policy routing and netflow (was Re: karl and paul, expostulating )
by Brett D. Watson 21 Feb '97

21 Feb '97

well *i* dind't think it was a bad name, i think we were getting into a semantics battle. (access-list filtering vs. policy route map filtering). if i come up with a better name thought, i'll let you know :) -brett > > they call source based routing > "policy routing". bad choice of names i guess but that's what they > call it. > > My most profuse apologies. Just so I don't make the same mistake again, > what should I have called it? > > ;-) > > Tony >

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