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Re: Routing Protocol Simulators -Reply
by neal castagnoli 03 Mar '97

03 Mar '97

Craig, Novell built one for NLSP. NLSP models the IS - IS protocol for IPX. The simulator creates a variety of topologies, allows you to specify change rates in those topologies, and also allows you to create your own. Some of the topologies are a cube, one that models what an ISP deploying IPX might look like, and one that models RIP. I'm not sure whether additional topologies have been added. You can contact AE Natarajan for more information (he is copied on this email message). --Neal >>> "Craig A. Haney" <craig(a)seamless.kludge.net> 02/28/97 03:43pm >>> At 18:02 -0500 2/28/97, Daniel O Awduche wrote: >I am in need of routing protocol simulators, and would be >most appreciative if information can be provided on >available packages (commercial and/or public domain). >In particular, packages that can provide realistic >simulation of the ISIS and/or OSPF protocols would be >most ideal. > >Thank you for your time. > >Daniel Awduche. >awduche(a)zonker.ecs.umass.edu Try calling Prof. Ranbir Sidu. Their product may be of interest. TeleniX Corporation (TELENIX-DOM) 3982 White Rose Way Ellicott City, MD 21042-5822 USA Domain Name: TELENIX.COM Administrative Contact: Sidhu, Ranbir (RS2941) telenix(a)ACCESS.DIGEX.NET (410)750-3213 Technical Contact, Zone Contact: Clark Internet Services, Inc. (CIS5-ORG) dns(a)CLARK.NET (410) 995-0550 Fax- (410) 995-0495 Billing Contact: Sidhu, Ranbir (RS2941) telenix(a)ACCESS.DIGEX.NET (410)750-3213 Record last updated on 20-Jan-97. Record created on 01-Aug-96. -craig -------------------------------------------------------------------- Craig A. Haney Cando Consulting - The Internetwork People 703.448.9826 :Tel 2031 Madrillon Springs Court 703.448.9786 :Fax Vienna, VA 22182-3764 http://seamless.kludge.net

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Frame Relay Question
by Scott Reubelt 03 Mar '97

03 Mar '97

I have a question that could or should be able to be answered by this group. I'm looking to simulate a Frame Relay Internet environment between a couple of routers. This will be internal and not connected to the internet, yet. I will also need the ability to add nodes to this simulated WAN. Does someone have a quick and dirty HW & SW list that I will need to purchase?? Thanks, -- Scott F. Reubelt sreubelt(a)whistle.com (http://www.whistle.com)

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Re: "routing table slots" and the real problem
by Paul Ferguson 03 Mar '97

03 Mar '97

At 01:39 PM 3/2/97 -0500, Perry E. Metzger wrote: > >True enough. Of course, this doesn't mean that we can't have routing >table growth, as we will have processor capacity growth, but it does >mean that the growth of the routing tables must be kept in line with >what the router processors can do. > True enough. However, it might also be novel to keep the cost down to a level that people can actually afford. - paul

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Re: The Big Squeeze
by Sean Donelan 03 Mar '97

03 Mar '97

>> I would suggest that the largest percentage of flapping prefixes in the >> global routing system belong to prefixes longer than /19. > >Hence the convention to damp differently for different lengths. See one of >the foils in http://www.psg.com/~randy/970210.nanog/, which suggests that we >over here start following the European lead on this. Is the route computation of a /8 prefix flapping once a second any different than a /24 flapping once a second? If /8's are "naturally" more stable, then why allow them to flap more before dampening them? When dampening was first being rolled out I remember one of the early networks that got hit was PSI's net 38/8. Treating flapping prefixes differently based on length has more to do with how many people scream when prefixes covering a large amount of address space get dampened than the impact of the route flap of an individual prefix on the router. Although most folks have permanently filtered it, isn't 1/8 still the flappiest prefix of all. -- Sean Donelan, Data Research Associates, Inc, St. Louis, MO Affiliation given for identification not representation

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Re: Frame Relay Question
by Kenneth E. Gray 03 Mar '97

03 Mar '97

Depends on how you want to simulate the frame. A cisco router can act as a switch, but it doesn't FECN or BECN...so, if you're actually testing newer features like Frame Relay Traffic Shaping you would be hard pressed to see any benefit 8^). However, quick and dirty emulation can be done with an old cisco router (I personally use an AGS+ running 10.3 - the highest it can go - with a ton of serial ports). At 04:37 PM 3/3/97 +0000, Scott Reubelt wrote: >I have a question that could or should be able to be answered by this >group. > >I'm looking to simulate a Frame Relay Internet environment between a >couple of routers. This will be internal and not connected to the >internet, yet. I will also need the ability to add nodes to this >simulated WAN. Does someone have a quick and dirty HW & SW list that I >will need to purchase?? > >Thanks, >-- > >Scott F. Reubelt >sreubelt(a)whistle.com (http://www.whistle.com) > > Ken Gray || || ISP Systems Engineer || || Reston, Virginia USA |||| |||| tel: +1.703.397.5942 ..:||||||:..:||||||:.. e-mail: kegray(a)cisco.com c i s c o S y s t e m s fax: +1.703.397.5999

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Re: The Big Squeeze
by Paul Ferguson 03 Mar '97

03 Mar '97

At 10:23 PM 3/2/97 -0600, Sean Donelan wrote: > >Is the route computation of a /8 prefix flapping once a second any >different than a /24 flapping once a second? If /8's are "naturally" >more stable, then why allow them to flap more before dampening them? > How many /8's are in the global routing system v. /24's? - paul

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Re: "routing table slots" and the real problem
by Paul Ferguson 03 Mar '97

03 Mar '97

At 03:48 PM 3/2/97 -0800, Vadim Antonov wrote: > >I'd like to point out that flap dampening is a band-aid; the real solutions >are in eliminating sources of flap, rather than easying symptoms. > Vadim, I'd love to hear your suggestions on this one. ;-) - paul

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Re: "routing table slots" and the real problem
by Paul Ferguson 03 Mar '97

03 Mar '97

At 02:37 PM 3/2/97 -0800, Vadim Antonov wrote: > >Not the case with one vendor's boxes. Memory _was_ the issue >after introducing CIDR. AGS/+s and early 7000s were running out >of memory, not out of CPU cycles. > Witness the birth of boxes which have 32Mb, 64Mb, 128Mb, etc., memory. >--vadim > >This message is brought to you by the society for history preservation :) > Yes, I know. I was there. :-) - paul

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Re: "routing table slots" and the real problem
by Paul Ferguson 03 Mar '97

03 Mar '97

At 01:25 PM 3/2/97, Joseph T. Klein wrote: >We are re-designing the Internet to make up for the fact the >largest manufacturers of routers has been slow to develop and >deploy systems that can keep up with the growth curve. A lot of >this comes down to size of the memory bus on low cost systems. > Without launching into a long, tiresome response here, I would suggest that this is correct, yet incorrect. The statistics that I have seen indicates that we (collectively) are not behind the curve here. Of course, there are extraneous issues which do not relate to the router vendors (availability of fiber, etc.), but let's not go down that rat hole. > >If router manufacturers worked on hardware and all used an open >software standard ... such as gated ... we would all be better off. >Open standards allow all of us to benefit from the work of others. I like open standards just as much as the next guy, but let's be realistic here. There is a difference between 'open standards' with regards to getting bits from point a to point b (the protocols developed within the IETF and elsewhere) and operating systems. I would suggest that the former is much more important than the latter. - paul

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Re: The Big Squeeze
by Paul Ferguson 03 Mar '97

03 Mar '97

At 04:03 PM 3/2/97 -0600, Scott Huddle wrote: > >I'll assert that if the costs of accepting a route announcement are >non-zero that this can only happen if there is a market for >announcements and a system of settlements between providers. > >If the costs are zero, then why have the filters? > I'd suggest that costs are non-zero, and they cannot be quantified by dollars, at least today. Since the majority of instability in the global Internet is originated by prefixes longer than /19's, the amount of resources consumed is an exercise left for the reader. - paul

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