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Network MOO?
by Eric Osborne 26 Aug '97

26 Aug '97

I saw a pointer to the IPNmoo off of www.nanog.com, and this got me thinking - how many other people would be interested in a Nanog-flavor MOO? IPNmoo doesn't seem to be running (www.nlanr.net:4766) I've had a bit of experience running a MOO, and it seems like it might be a useful thing to have. I may even be able to provider server space, if there's enough interest. Comments? eric

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Re: Network MOO?
by Bill Woodcock 26 Aug '97

26 Aug '97

There are terms of use for the IPNmoo, basically that your marketing folks won't run around badmouthing other people when you find out about other people's outages through it. So you need to get an account to log in. Mail kc(a)nlanr.net or labovit(a)merit.edu to find out more about it. It's very useful, but like the infamous outage-discussion mailing lists, two is not better. :-) -Bill Woodcock

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Netrail woes (was Re: Atlanta-NAP down (fwd))
by Sean M. Doran 26 Aug '97

26 Aug '97

I just read this after clearing out old NANOG mail... Jon Lewis <jlewis(a)inorganic5.fdt.net> writes: > The Atlanta NAP (www.atlanta-nap.net run by Nathan Stratton) is down, > probably for good. We're a customer (luckily a multihomed one!), and > the word is WORLDCOM pulled all their circuits due to debts. So all the > netrail.net mailing lists and stuff will be down too. 8 mae-east2-nap.Washington.mci.net (204.70.1.222) 107.596 ms 195.051 ms 90.187 ms 9 mae-east.netrail.net (192.41.177.228) 97.759 ms 128.468 ms 108.682 ms 10 mae-east.netrail.net (192.41.177.228) 121.353 ms !H 92.724 ms !H 92.384 ms !H 23 144.228.10.42 (144.228.10.42) 178.501 ms 181.052 ms * 24 mae-east.netrail.net (192.41.177.228) 204.067 ms 206.366 ms * 25 mae-east.netrail.net (192.41.177.228) 208.59 ms !H 197.928 ms !H 207.262 ms !H You know, although I do feel bad for Netrail and its customers, I did read this with a keen appreciation for the irony, given Mr Stratton's public comments about how badly BBN's power system was misdesigned for allowing them to take multi-hour outages, particularly in light of the fact that the outage in question was beyond BBN's immediate ability to fix, and not BBN's fault. It didn't have the personal tastiness of Mr Bass's unfortunate encounter with bad weather a year or so ago, but frankly, I can't help but engage in schadenfreude anyway. I also wonder how the millions of GRFs and the billions of other high-tech expensive pieces of equipment in Netrail's large network Mr Stratton often commented upon are coping right now. One final extract, from <Pine.BSF.3.95q.970716143738.3017A-100000(a)netrail.net> posted to NANOG during the recent backhoe season: "Ya, we are going to kill worldcom for this [outage caused by a fibre-cut]". No tickee, no complainee? The moral of this story: bad things happen to everyone. But when it happens to braggarts who seem to specialize in doing things better than people who are trying their best, it's terribly, terribly cool. --:) Take note, please, Mr Fleming (inventor and super genius). Sean.

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Re: ICMP Attacks???????
by Paul G. Donner 26 Aug '97

26 Aug '97

At 03:26 PM 8/21/97 -0500, Jon Green wrote: >On Thu, 21 Aug 1997 13:18:34 -0700, fair(a)clock.org writes: >> >>There is another mitigation: everyone here should commit to filtering >>customer packets at the customer premesis router (or at the dial in for >>PPP/SLIP) such that it is not possible for a customer to send a packet into >>the network that has an IP source address on it that is not assigned to >>that customer. That is, no more lying about source addresses. > >Every time I show a customer of mine how to configure a router, I >try to educate them on this. We need some kind of massive marketing >effort to get this out to people though. People would do it, but nobody >knows about it. Why not include it as part of "their" contractual obligations by placing it in the text of the contract as well as by including an instructional whitepaper. You can't really enforce it but at least you get the coverage you want. Besides, if the customer is as clueless as most (and I say that in a benign way) they may not know that you can't or wouldn't really enforce it. > >Maybe we should get CyberPromo to spam all the technical contacts >in Internic's database to tell them how to do filtering. :) > >-Jon > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > * Jon Green * "Life's a dance * > * jcgreen(a)netINS.net * you learn as you go" * > * Finger for Geek Code/PGP * * > * #include "std_disclaimer.h" * http://www.netins.net/showcase/jcgreen * > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >

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Re: Idea... [was Re: Netrail woes]
by Brian Horvitz 26 Aug '97

26 Aug '97

Didn't we talk about this in Tampa? It seems to me that the slacker in all of us doesn't want to be bothered with multiple lists any more than we want to be bothered with a bunch of messages that we don't read. This will also give rise to more "don't post that here" messages. Brian -----Original Message----- From: Ed Morin <edm(a)nwnexus.wa.com> To: nanog(a)merit.edu <nanog(a)merit.edu> Date: Tuesday, August 26, 1997 11:52 AM Subject: Idea... [was Re: Netrail woes] >Since this seems to be an on-going problem... > >How about creating a _new_ list called nanog-chat which can be used >for this sort of purpose. This way, when somebody feels like chatting >_AND HAS THE TIME_, they can skip over to the list, scan for a thread >that looks interesting and participate. The regular nanog list can >then be kept free of this clutter that many of us do not have time >for. (My current inbox of nanog stuff is over 3,000 messages and it's >a loosing battle. Doing _something_ to help the signal-to-chat ratio >would be most helpful.) > >Ed > >On Tue, 26 Aug 1997, Joe McGuckin wrote: > >> >> >> ----- Begin Included Message ----- >> >> >> Vary much not correct. All of our WORLDCOM circuits have been paid, and >> never were late. Worldcom terminated our service because NetRail refused >> to pay over 300K in circuits that NetRail never ordered. We have paid >> them this amount to get our network back up. >> >> ------------------------------------------------------- >> >> We've had this problem with MFS in the past. Although it wasn't 300K! >> >> After they threatened to pull the plug on all our circuits, we got >> MFS corporate accounts receivable on a conference call with our (then) >> weasley sales rep. After the AR manager learned that there was not a signed >> sales order for the circuits, he told the sales guy that the local office >> would have to eat the unpaid bill. >> >> joe >> > >___________________________________________________________________________ > Ed Morin edm(a)nwnexus.com > Northwest Nexus - Professional Internet Services Bellevue, WA USA > Voice: 425 455-3505 Web: http://www.nwnexus.com Info: info(a)nwnexus.com > >

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Re: Netrail woes (was Re: Atlanta-NAP down (fwd))
by Joe McGuckin 26 Aug '97

26 Aug '97

----- Begin Included Message ----- Vary much not correct. All of our WORLDCOM circuits have been paid, and never were late. Worldcom terminated our service because NetRail refused to pay over 300K in circuits that NetRail never ordered. We have paid them this amount to get our network back up. ------------------------------------------------------- We've had this problem with MFS in the past. Although it wasn't 300K! After they threatened to pull the plug on all our circuits, we got MFS corporate accounts receivable on a conference call with our (then) weasley sales rep. After the AR manager learned that there was not a signed sales order for the circuits, he told the sales guy that the local office would have to eat the unpaid bill. joe

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Re: Broadcast ICMP's at Mae East from Nacamar / Nacamar Contact
by Sean M. Doran 26 Aug '97

26 Aug '97

>(On more than one occasion I have wondered why there is so much >non-NA activity on an ostensibly NA specific list.) I am one of those pests you just can't get rid of, Bill. However, to be a sophist for a moment, "North American Network Operators' Group" can still include me, since, while the network here isn't North American, there is technically a North American involved in operating it. (Heck, a colleague of mine is *in* North America richt now, even) Besides, you never know when or if we will expand into North America, like several other European-based colleagues here who have equipment and infrastructure in the U.S. and elsewhere in North America. (Quick quiz: where does schnell.ebone.net live?) I note that part of EUNET's network is North American, so this also covers Per Bilse. I note that Per even made a _operationally relevant_ announcement here yesterday, so like don't knock the people providing actual content on this list. --:) Sean.

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Re: ICMP Attacks???????
by Joe Rhett 26 Aug '97

26 Aug '97

> > That's not a fault of the router vendor, or the software. > > Stipulated. but neither of those excuses protect the net. Not concerning with protecting the 'Net. The 'Net should be protected by cluefull ISPs. Your idea is to waste CPU cycles to prevent people from reading the manual. > I've yet to have anyone explain to me why adding a requirement to tell > the router that a given port has other routers behind it, instead of > hosts, "won't work in many, many implementations"... by which I assume > you mean many networks, rather than many router brands. You obviously fail to understand corporate networks. Since corporate networks are still 90-9?% of the router business, your requirements for what the 'Net needs are irrelevant. (also irrelevant since the functionality is there. You just have to RFTM..) > > Not enough reason. Small picture. Pretty silly proposition. I can think of > > many better propositions, with much better reasons, that I'd rather see put > > forward. > Pointers? Replace BGP with PATH metrics and congestion info. More intelligent route filters More adaptive response to route table fluctuations. Defined backups when routing table destablizes. Automatic local priority updates when routing table fluctates (Bay has it, noone else does). Defined actions for loss/gain of specific routes. Better path info update in OSPF. Common path info exchange in OSPF (wake up Cisco) Cleaner route switching in OSPF. On-Demand SVC Frame Interfaces. Real code, real purpose, real function. Not code to prevent people from reading the manual. -- Joe Rhett Systems Engineer JRhett(a)ISite.Net ISite Services PGP keys and contact information: http://www.navigist.com/Staff/JRhett

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Broadcast ICMP's at Mae East from Nacamar / Nacamar Contact
by Thomas Trede 26 Aug '97

26 Aug '97

Hello, the problems with the broadcast ICMP's at Mae East have been fixed meanwhile. The Nacamar Network Operations Center can be reached via eMail: noc(a)nacamar.net or via phone: +49 6103 9901 62. If anyone still sees an ICMP Broadcast problem at Mae East, please contact our NOC or directly me. Regards, Thomas PS: I was on a business trip for two weeks and was unsubscribed from the NANOG mailing list... ------------------------------------------------------------------- Thomas Trede NACAMAR Data Communications Senior Network Engineer P.O.Box 102262 63268 Dreieich / Germany e-mail: trede(a)nacamar.net voice: +49-6103-993-910 www : www.nacamar.net fax : +49-6103-993-999 -------------------------------------------------------------------

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Native Multicast (Was: Re: Contest! )
by Eric Kozowski 26 Aug '97

26 Aug '97

>PS: The real prize should go to the *next* person to post useful technical >content. OK, I'll take a stab at it, although it'll be in the form of a technical question, which will hopefully draw technical content/answers. I'm getting ready to run some native multicast on our backbone, mainly as an experiment in replacing our existing set of DVRMP/MRouted tunnels. Equipment is cisco 7XXX and 4500, with a 2501 CPE router (my home connection). Most are running some flavor of 11.2, with one or two still running 11.1. I'm looking for tips and suggestions from folks who are actually running native multicast in a cisco environment. While I've been getting help from Dave Meyer (Thanks, Dave!), I figure that others could benefit from the same information, hence my posting here. -Eric

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