- NANOG - lists.nanog.org

Re: moving to IPv6
by Sean M. Doran 03 Nov '97

03 Nov '97

Alex Bligh <amb(a)gxn.net> writes: > Sean seems to predicts death of end to end > network layer addressing. How about the > death of end to end internet? Instead > run with a core of IPv4 numbered routers > and application layer gateways. Run everything > else in private address space. 10.0.0.0/8 > has pleny of room. Alex has followed things closely and has just moved back into the realm of the smart ALG, which is another of my favourite topics. As his message is something I cannot really improve upon, let me just say that I completely agree that for many protocols, his end is a good one, and has the benefit not only of conserving IP addresses to the point that IPv4ever looks likely but also reducing unecessary duplicate traffic. The one clarification, though, is that running everything in private address space does not imply the end of end-to-end Internetworking; it is dropping in smart ALGs that means the death of the inefficient end-to-end nature of several popular protocols. Sean.

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Re: moving to IPv6
by Sean M. Doran 03 Nov '97

03 Nov '97

Rodney Joffe <rjoffe(a)genuity.net> writes: > It seems to me that if there is going to be a change in the way that we > look at addresses, routing, and NAT, it would be in everyone's interest > if we were able to build border NAT devices that besides telling an > incoming packet where to go, was also able to tell it what route to take > through the internal network. Not just relying on the internal routing > data, but also making decisions based on the real-time performance > inside the network, and the nature of the traffic (TCP vs. UDP, HTTP vs > FTP vs TELNET vs MAIL). I know it touches on QOS, but QOS is reactive, > this could be proactive. > > Once the box has to do the work, and look at each packet and address, > why not add smarts? Note that with respect to the idea that one can make interesting forwarding decisions across a routing domain based on such things as source address, input interface, packet size, protocol, etc., there is a strong conceptual affinity between NAT and MPLS. Wheras MPLS is a protocol-neutral map-and-encapsulate system, NAT is a protocol-specific translation. There are enormous potential synergies between the two, particularly when, as Rodney suggests, one starts considering policy based on what MPLS calls FECs (Forwarding Equivalency Classes). However, the two are not interchangeable; MPLS should not modify payloads (it should not KNOW what the payload is) and doing lots of packet-munging at the NAT level is a poor (and in some cases extremely difficult) way to propagate policy information from router to router. You are the second sound person recently to suggest routing based on observed load. This sort of thing scares me (cf. Peter Lothberg's 101-is-full-use-280-280-is-full-use-101-repeat San Francisco Bay Area highway analogy in the past, and Radia Perlman's "congestion control is a very difficult problem in a network" et succ., s. 9.12 in _Interconnections_). Frankly I am worried that the amount of control traffic and processing needed to implement fine-grain congestion avoiding forwarding will overwhelm network devices. A better approach is probably to run with Van Jacobson's recent appeals to use intelligence in gateways to make non-high-quality traffic fairer so that for that traffic no congestion-avoiding forwarding needs to be done. High-quality (i.e., extra $) traffic could then be dealt with in a variety of ways ranging from queue manipulation and selective disabling of fairness-enforcement to using MPLS or an equivalent to direct traffic across different infrastructure. Sean.

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Re: Communities
by Sean M. Doran 03 Nov '97

03 Nov '97

The route object found via 'whois -h whois.ripe.net AS1755' may serve as a useful case study for people interested in using communities to influence routing policy. Sean. P.S.: whois.ra.net will work too for those of you with poor connectivity to Europe or scratching your heads about why whois.ripe.net doesn't seem to work right now...

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Hello, mci?
by Alex Rubenstein 02 Nov '97

02 Nov '97

http://www.security.mci.net/dostrack Not Found The requested object was not found on this server. Hrmph. Where?

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Re: Notes from the October 1997 meeting
by sob＠academ.com 02 Nov '97

02 Nov '97

I can convert them. I will be happy to return the converted slide to you once they are done. -- Stan | Academ Consulting Services |internet: sob(a)academ.com Olan | For more info on academ, see this |uucp: {mcsun|amdahl}!academ!sob Barber | URL- http://www.academ.com/academ |Opinions expressed are only mine.

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Did I really get spammed from this mailing list?
by des 02 Nov '97

02 Nov '97

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Notes from the October 1997 meeting
by sob＠academ.com 02 Nov '97

02 Nov '97

They will start appearing at this URL as soon as I can get them done. I am still missing a number of slides from a number of the presenters. http://www.academ.com/nanog/oct1997 Thanks. -- Stan | Academ Consulting Services |internet: sob(a)academ.com Olan | For more info on academ, see this |uucp: {mcsun|amdahl}!academ!sob Barber | URL- http://www.academ.com/academ |Opinions expressed are only mine.

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Re: NAT etc. (was: Spam Control Considered Harmful)
by Tim Salo 02 Nov '97

02 Nov '97

> Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 17:37:57 -0500 > From: "Jay R. Ashworth" <jra(a)scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> > To: "You're welcome" <nanog(a)merit.edu> > Subject: Re: NAT etc. (was: Spam Control Considered Harmful) > [...] > Well, yes, Paul, but unless I misunderstood you, that's exactly the > point. If a client inside a NAT cloud does a DNS lookup to a > supposedly authoritative server outside, and the NAT box is _required_ > to strip off the signature (which it would, because it has to change > the data), then it's not possibile, by definition, for any client > inside such a NAT box to make any use of SecDNS. > > The point is that you _can't_ regenerate the signature, usefully to the > client, anyway, precisely because _it is a signature_. Presumably, the NAT could, o Verify the signature of the DNS responses it receives, and dump any responses that don't meet its [authentication] criteria, or o Sign the the response it creates and let the client verify the NAT's signature. Presumably, the client will trust the NAT. -tjs

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Eugene Kashpureff Arrested for Wire Fraud
by Adam Alexander 02 Nov '97

02 Nov '97

http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,15927,00.html Adam Alexander yacko(a)dal.net, yacko(a)home.net, yacko(a)neXusNET.org ------------------ Network Administrator of neXus Networks DALnet IRC Operator - qis.md.us.dal.net

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OK.
by Alex Rubenstein 02 Nov '97

02 Nov '97

I am a moron; I can't figure it out. How do you make a cisco so that you can rsh into it (to use Mr. Kerns looking glass)? TIA>

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