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RE: Choosing a Service/Hosting Provider
by Irwin Lazar 24 Feb '01

24 Feb '01

the strange thing is that we don't see network quality (in terms of low latency, high 9's availability, etc.) being much of a concern among our customers. I think the basic attitude is that there isn't much difference in terms of service quality among the tier 1 providers: internet connectivity, frame relay and ATM service are pretty much viewed as commodities, so the more pressing issue becomes customer service/support, SLA management, cost and availability. Irwin -----Original Message----- From: Chris Kleban [mailto:ckleban@sitesmith.com] Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 12:23 PM To: Irwin Lazar; 'Eric Gauthier'; nanog(a)merit.edu Subject: RE: Choosing a Service/Hosting Provider Well, one thing that was left out that the very important is the network quality. I am going to quote someone (not sure who): "good, fast, cheap (pick two)". Chris -----Original Message----- From: owner-nanog(a)merit.edu [mailto:owner-nanog@merit.edu]On Behalf Of Irwin Lazar Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 11:41 AM To: 'Eric Gauthier'; 'nanog(a)merit.edu' Subject: RE: Choosing a Service/Hosting Provider Our consulting practice spends a lot of time on this very issue. I'd rate the top three things that our customers are looking for from SP's are as follows: - Customer Service - a single point of contact, pro-active network management, and fast provisioning. Poor customer service, IMHO, is the single biggest complaint I hear from our customers about their current service providers - Cost - especially considering market slow-downs - Geographic Availability - being able to provide service where its needed and when its needed, via a single point of contact if partnership arrangements are required. I'd also add financial stability as another concern. Companies are very wary about putting their lifeblood onto a service provider's network when that service provider isn't financially stable. Irwin ----- Irwin Lazar - ilazar(a)tbg.com <mailto:ilazar@tbg.com> Senior Consultant, The Burton Group Office: 703-742-9659 Cell: 703-402-4119 http://www.tbg.com/ "The Ultimate Resource For Network Architects" -----Original Message----- From: Eric Gauthier [mailto:eric@roxanne.org] Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 11:29 AM To: nanog(a)merit.edu Subject: Choosing a Service/Hosting Provider Hello, I'm pretty sure that this question has been picked to death on this list, but I couldn't find a good thread in the nanog archives. If there is one in there, can someone drop me a pointer off-list? Anyways, here is my question: What should people look for when choosing a service or hosting provider? Thanks. Eric

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reverse Traceroute
by pbergman＠rhythms.net 24 Feb '01

24 Feb '01

I just played with this reverse traceroute tool from www.traceloop.com and it looks cool. It's kind of a cross between an automated lookingglass system and napster. Anyway, they are just starting their alpha testing and they need more test points. btw, I have no affiliation, just thought it was cool... Paul Bergman Network Engineer Rhythms NetConnections, Inc.

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Choosing a Service/Hosting Provider
by Eric Gauthier 24 Feb '01

24 Feb '01

Hello, I'm pretty sure that this question has been picked to death on this list, but I couldn't find a good thread in the nanog archives. If there is one in there, can someone drop me a pointer off-list? Anyways, here is my question: What should people look for when choosing a service or hosting provider? Thanks. Eric

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The Cidr Report
by Tony Bates 24 Feb '01

24 Feb '01

This is an auto-generated mail on Fri Feb 23 23:00:02 PST 2001 It is not checked before it leaves my workstation. However, hopefully you will find this report interesting and will take the time to look through this to see if you can improve the amount of aggregation you perform. The report is split into sections: 0) General Status List the route table history for the last week, list any possibly bogus routes seen and give some status on ASes. 1) Gains by aggregating at the origin AS level This lists the "Top 30" players who if they decided to aggregate their announced classful prefixes at the origin AS level could make a significant difference in the reduction of the current size of the Internet routing table. This calculation does not take into account the inclusion of holes when forming an aggregate so it is possible even larger reduction should be possible. 2) Weekly Delta A summary of the last weeks changes in terms of withdrawn and added routes. Please note that this is only a snapshot but does give some indication of ASes participating in CIDR. Clearly, it is generally a good thing to see a large amont of withdrawls. 3) Interesting aggregates Interesting here means not an aggregate made as a set of classful routes. Thanks to xara.net for giving me access to their routing tables once a day. Please send any comments about this report directly to me. Check http://www.employees.org/~tbates/cidr-report.html for a daily update of this report. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ CIDR REPORT for 23Feb01 0) General Status Table History ------------- Date Prefixes 110201 96509 120201 96907 200201 96086 200201 96219 200201 96217 210201 96188 220201 96107 230201 96158 Check http://www.employees.org/~tbates/cidr.plot.html for a plot of the table history. Possible Bogus Routes --------------------- *** Bogus 91.16.23.0/24 from AS11770 AS Summary ---------- Number of ASes in routing system: 10023 Number of ASes announcing only one prefix: 5876 (3327 cidr, 2549 classful) Largest number of cidr routes: 959 announced by AS701 Largest number of classful routes: 1714 announced by AS701 1) Gains by aggregating at the origin AS level --- 23Feb01 --- ASnum NetsNow NetsCIDR NetGain % Gain Description AS701 1714 1502 212 12.4% UUNET Technologies, Inc. AS1221 640 487 153 23.9% Telstra Pty Ltd AS8006 145 19 126 86.9% Systems & Software Consortium, In AS7545 193 73 120 62.2% TPG Internet Pty Ltd AS9269 163 52 111 68.1% Internet service Provider in Hong AS13999 109 7 102 93.6% Mega Cable S.A. de C.V. AS6595 161 62 99 61.5% DoD Education Activity Network As AS4293 380 287 93 24.5% Cable & Wireless USA AS6429 192 101 91 47.4% RdC Internet AS271 197 107 90 45.7% University of British Columbia AS8013 330 244 86 26.1% PSINet Ltd. Canada AS705 329 243 86 26.1% UUNET Technologies, Inc. AS7496 103 22 81 78.6% Power Up AS4755 207 127 80 38.6% Videsh Sanchar Nigam Ltd. Autonom AS4151 242 166 76 31.4% USDA AS1942 136 64 72 52.9% FR-CICG-GRENOBLE AS7018 631 560 71 11.3% AT&T AS577 235 166 69 29.4% Bell Advanced Communications Inc. AS7046 322 254 68 21.1% UUNET Technologies, Inc. AS5106 101 37 64 63.4% Ameritech Advanced Data Services, AS724 220 157 63 28.6% DLA Systems Automation Center AS1727 156 93 63 40.4% Commander Naval Surface force US AS11170 64 1 63 98.4% Bewell Net AS3464 154 92 62 40.3% Alabama SuperComputer Network AS174 483 421 62 12.8% PSINet Inc. AS3749 118 59 59 50.0% Tennessee Board of Regents AS16758 63 6 57 90.5% IKON Office Solutions AS6413 67 11 56 83.6% Southern Online Systems, Inc. AS376 132 76 56 42.4% Reseau Interordinateurs Scientiqu AS226 148 92 56 37.8% Los Nettos For the rest of the previous weeks gain information please see http://www.employees.org:80/~tbates/cidr-report.html 2) Weekly Delta Please see http://www.employees.org:80/~tbates/cidr-report.html for this part of the report 3) Interesting aggregates Please see http://www.employees.org:80/~tbates/cidr-report.html for this part of the report

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Re: Update for noc .nl problem..
by Shawn McMahon 23 Feb '01

23 Feb '01

On Fri, Feb 23, 2001 at 03:23:52PM -0800, Ben Browning wrote: > > delete an account, I keep my own counsel on the matter. All you will ever > hear is "I will take care of that" or "I have already taken care of that". > In order to get this kind of proprietary customer data from, you'd damn > well better have a subpoena or a court order, because anything short of > that will be like trying to suck a dead bunny through a straw. And that, > IMNSHO, is precisely how it should be. And so, in order to be assured that things are actually being taken care of, I must either take your word for it, or drag everybody into court. Whatever; if you enjoy being in court that much, so be it. Of course, when it's one of mine hacking your network, you better hope I don't act the same way; otherwise a 15 minute problem turns into a multi-month one.

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Re:Update for noc .nl problem..
by CARL P HIRSCH 23 Feb '01

23 Feb '01

I'm curious - how many ISPs hold to this kind of policy of being tight-lipped until subpoenaed? Personally, I'm kind of glad to see this response from @home. I know I would want to see an ISP I used do the same thing if confronted by The Law. Maybe that's just the Bill of Rights lover in me. Having said that, it sucks that they're forcing you to get the lawyers and the cops involved. I'd often prefer to see things handled on an informal basis of professional courtesy. Especially when real damage is done such as in your case. -carl hirsch network analyst sargent & lundy llc ____________________Reply Separator____________________ Subject: Update for noc .nl problem.. Author: owner-nanog-outgoing(a)merit.edu Date: 2/23/01 3:09 PM Spoke to someone from the home.com abuse department... Basic conversation was, We won't give you the information, Untill you subpeona us. Well time to get the lawyers involved. -- Scott Walker scott(a)unspeakable.org Cell 954.444.3408 http://www.unspeakable.org Network/Security Administrator There are two ways to write error-free programs. Only the third one works.

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Update for noc .nl problem..
by Scott Walker 23 Feb '01

23 Feb '01

Spoke to someone from the home.com abuse department... Basic conversation was, We won't give you the information, Untill you subpeona us. Well time to get the lawyers involved. -- Scott Walker scott(a)unspeakable.org Cell 954.444.3408 http://www.unspeakable.org Network/Security Administrator There are two ways to write error-free programs. Only the third one works.

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Re: home.nl NOC contact number.
by Scott Walker 23 Feb '01

23 Feb '01

I all ready tried.... response I got was "Ohh, home.nl, that's a different company completly. So it's not out problem" Me: "Well, can I get the phone number?" Them: "Uhhh, I don't have it... Sorry" Quoting Mr. M <mistrM(a)socal.rr.com>: > > Does anyone happen to have a contact number for home.nl's noc? I need to > > speak with someone there ASAP about a incident that just occured. > > The @home cable network. Why am I not surprised? > > Anyway, if you can find a number for the one in .nl call their US noc for > home.com I'm sure they can get somone that speaks English on the phone for > you. > > > M -- Scott Walker scott(a)unspeakable.org Cell 954.444.3408 http://www.unspeakable.org Network/Security Administrator Life would be so much easier if we could just look at the source code.

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Re: rfc 1918?
by SMcGrath＠dhhs.state.nh.us 23 Feb '01

23 Feb '01

Agreed Valdis, Our upstream's use 1918 addresses internally so that 1918 addresses are constantly bouncing off our filters we have an aggressive egress filter which makes sure no 1918's leak and pollute the internet ;-} and filtering on core routers is a suboptimal solution RFC 1819 addresses (10 points to the person who knows the predecessor) NEED to be filtered at the border IMHO. Scott Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu@merit.edu on 02/22/2001 10:14:35 PM Sent by: owner-nanog(a)merit.edu To: Mark Radabaugh <mark(a)amplex.net> cc: North America Network Operators Group Mailing List <nanog(a)merit.edu> Subject: Re: rfc 1918? On Thu, 22 Feb 2001 19:12:14 EST, Mark Radabaugh <mark(a)amplex.net> said: > At our egress points the filters are fairly short -- they allow only traffic > with our IP source addresses to leave. This was my interpretation of the RFC's. Thank you. The rest of the network appreciates you doing your part. > Some in this discussion seem to be saying that we should also filter for RFC1918 > destinations. Am I reading this correctly? That's probably optional. But if you have the router resources to do it. every little bit helps. You probably should filter and log it, to find out why one of your hosts is trying to send to a 1918 address outside your site - if you're not using 1918 space, it shouldn't happen, and if you ARE using it, the packet should have ended up inside your net, not on your border router. In either case, if a packet is trying to leave your net bound for a 1918 destination, something is probably seriously wrong(*). (*) I'll leave ICMP replies from 1918-addressed P2P links out for the moment ;) > I can see that packets destined for RFC1918 addresses will leave our network > (due to default routes) but are promptly dropped at the first BGP speaking > router they encounter. Is it worth the extra router processing time to check > all outgoing packet destinations as well? I can't see where this extra > filtering is worth the trouble. There's 2 main classes of "next router": 1) You don't filter, but it goes to the OTHER end of the link and promptly gets stomped by a fascist filter that refuses to accept any source address that's outside the adddress block that's supposed to be at your end. 2) You don't filter, they don't filter either, because they actually USE 1918 space for their own stuff, so your packets wtih 1918 source addresses and real destination addresses manage to go a LONG way before hitting anything that will stop them (as the original poster showed, the packets could actually *arrive* at the destination, with no way to reply). Remember - this filtering often can't be done on core routers due to performance issues, so if it doesn't get done at the border routers it probably won't happen... Valdis Kletnieks Operating Systems Analyst Virginia Tech

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Re: home.nl NOC contact number.
by Scott Walker 23 Feb '01

23 Feb '01

Someone from the .nl domain got into our database server, and proceeded to delete everything.. I got his ip... So I'm hunting him down... We got backups, but still ... This was a pretty big deal.. Quoting Scott A. McIntyre <scott(a)xs4all.nl>: > Also sprach Scott Walker (scott(a)unspeakable.org) > > > > > Does anyone happen to have a contact number for home.nl's noc? I need to > > speak with someone there ASAP about a incident that just occured. > > > > Sadly, I would not expect much by reply from them. > > Technical Contact: > Andre van Leeuwen > Phone: +31 20 885 5733 > E-mail: andre(a)corp.nl.home.com > > > In theory, is what is in RIPE, however, as I report events to them all > the time, we hear almost nothing. What was the incident, out of > curiosity? > -- Scott Walker scott(a)unspeakable.org Cell 954.444.3408 http://www.unspeakable.org Network/Security Administrator QUOTE OF THE DAY: `

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