Whats going on at Cogent
Anyone else seen terrible support and high turnover of sales/account people at Cogent the last few months? Is there something going on over there internally? I'm sure some people will say Cogent has always been crap but in the past their account reps and support were pretty good. It seems to have gone downhill the last 12 months really bad. Regards, Ryan
I am glad I'm not the only one. I've noticed similar. Just when I get used to one rep it seems I have a new one. On Tue, Oct 16, 2018, 6:04 AM Ryan Gelobter <ryan.g@atwgpc.net> wrote:
Anyone else seen terrible support and high turnover of sales/account people at Cogent the last few months? Is there something going on over there internally? I'm sure some people will say Cogent has always been crap but in the past their account reps and support were pretty good. It seems to have gone downhill the last 12 months really bad.
Regards, Ryan
I think I noticed this actually start a bit longer than that. Around the time they started charging for BGP sessions and IP blocks on existing customers. So at least a year but I think closer to two years ago. On Tue, Oct 16, 2018, 6:22 AM John Hurley <j0hn.hurl3y@gmail.com> wrote:
I am glad I'm not the only one. I've noticed similar. Just when I get used to one rep it seems I have a new one.
On Tue, Oct 16, 2018, 6:04 AM Ryan Gelobter <ryan.g@atwgpc.net> wrote:
Anyone else seen terrible support and high turnover of sales/account people at Cogent the last few months? Is there something going on over there internally? I'm sure some people will say Cogent has always been crap but in the past their account reps and support were pretty good. It seems to have gone downhill the last 12 months really bad.
Regards, Ryan
Have had the same sales rep for several years now; unfortunately he has no ability to fix their IPv6 peering issue so we’re slowly removing circuits, but otherwise for a handful of 10gig DIA circuits it’s been stable. From: NANOG <nanog-bounces@nanog.org> on behalf of Ryan Gelobter <ryan.g@atwgpc.net> Date: Tuesday, October 16, 2018 at 6:04 AM To: NANOG <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Whats going on at Cogent Anyone else seen terrible support and high turnover of sales/account people at Cogent the last few months? Is there something going on over there internally? I'm sure some people will say Cogent has always been crap but in the past their account reps and support were pretty good. It seems to have gone downhill the last 12 months really bad. Regards, Ryan
On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 5:16 AM David Hubbard <dhubbard@dino.hostasaurus.com> wrote:
Have had the same sales rep for several years now; unfortunately he has no ability to fix their IPv6 peering issue so we’re slowly removing circuits, but otherwise for a handful of 10gig DIA circuits it’s been stable.
Yep, this. Whenever Cogent calls, this is what i tell them. Black-holing HE and Google ipv6 traffic, which is what they do if i use a default route from them, is dead on arrival. Shows they make bad decisions and dont put the customer first, or even create such an illusion. *From: *NANOG <nanog-bounces@nanog.org> on behalf of Ryan Gelobter <
ryan.g@atwgpc.net> *Date: *Tuesday, October 16, 2018 at 6:04 AM *To: *NANOG <nanog@nanog.org> *Subject: *Whats going on at Cogent
Anyone else seen terrible support and high turnover of sales/account people at Cogent the last few months? Is there something going on over there internally? I'm sure some people will say Cogent has always been crap but in the past their account reps and support were pretty good. It seems to have gone downhill the last 12 months really bad.
Regards,
Ryan
They call me every few months. the last time they emailed me I said I wasn't interested because of the HE issue. I have yet to get another email....... On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 9:29 AM, Ca By <cb.list6@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 5:16 AM David Hubbard < dhubbard@dino.hostasaurus.com> wrote:
Have had the same sales rep for several years now; unfortunately he has no ability to fix their IPv6 peering issue so we’re slowly removing circuits, but otherwise for a handful of 10gig DIA circuits it’s been stable.
Yep, this. Whenever Cogent calls, this is what i tell them. Black-holing HE and Google ipv6 traffic, which is what they do if i use a default route from them, is dead on arrival. Shows they make bad decisions and dont put the customer first, or even create such an illusion.
*From: *NANOG <nanog-bounces@nanog.org> on behalf of Ryan Gelobter <
ryan.g@atwgpc.net> *Date: *Tuesday, October 16, 2018 at 6:04 AM *To: *NANOG <nanog@nanog.org> *Subject: *Whats going on at Cogent
Anyone else seen terrible support and high turnover of sales/account people at Cogent the last few months? Is there something going on over there internally? I'm sure some people will say Cogent has always been crap but in the past their account reps and support were pretty good. It seems to have gone downhill the last 12 months really bad.
Regards,
Ryan
When I call and mention it I’m told that it’s HE’s fault (despite the lovely cake), but when I also bring Google, then they tell me to get a different provider just for this traffic, or meet them at an IX and send my traffic from there. About the staff rotation I’ve seen it too, and I’ve also seen an increase in salespeople calling, for example when an AS is registered etc. in addition to the normal calls..
On 16 Oct 2018, at 16:54, Dovid Bender <dovid@telecurve.com> wrote:
They call me every few months. the last time they emailed me I said I wasn't interested because of the HE issue. I have yet to get another email.......
On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 9:29 AM, Ca By <cb.list6@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 5:16 AM David Hubbard <dhubbard@dino.hostasaurus.com> wrote: Have had the same sales rep for several years now; unfortunately he has no ability to fix their IPv6 peering issue so we’re slowly removing circuits, but otherwise for a handful of 10gig DIA circuits it’s been stable.
Yep, this. Whenever Cogent calls, this is what i tell them. Black-holing HE and Google ipv6 traffic, which is what they do if i use a default route from them, is dead on arrival. Shows they make bad decisions and dont put the customer first, or even create such an illusion.
From: NANOG <nanog-bounces@nanog.org> on behalf of Ryan Gelobter <ryan.g@atwgpc.net> Date: Tuesday, October 16, 2018 at 6:04 AM To: NANOG <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Whats going on at Cogent
Anyone else seen terrible support and high turnover of sales/account people at Cogent the last few months? Is there something going on over there internally? I'm sure some people will say Cogent has always been crap but in the past their account reps and support were pretty good. It seems to have gone downhill the last 12 months really bad.
Regards,
Ryan
I don't really get the Cogent/Google peering issues. I've been hearing this for years... How about fixing it already? Telling customer to get other transit providers to get to a given network is really bad. On a side note, HE is still HE but they're trying really hard to be a good netcitizen. They've finally pushed filtering for peers: http://routing.he.net. I wouldn't get transit from them, but in some markets, they're the only affordable IP transit providers. On Oct 16 2018, at 10:04 am, DaKnOb <daknob.mac@gmail.com> wrote:
When I call and mention it I’m told that it’s HE’s fault (despite the lovely cake), but when I also bring Google, then they tell me to get a different provider just for this traffic, or meet them at an IX and send my traffic from there.
About the staff rotation I’ve seen it too, and I’ve also seen an increase in salespeople calling, for example when an AS is registered etc. in addition to the normal calls..
On 16 Oct 2018, at 16:54, Dovid Bender <dovid@telecurve.com (mailto:dovid@telecurve.com)> wrote:
They call me every few months. the last time they emailed me I said I wasn't interested because of the HE issue. I have yet to get another email.......
On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 9:29 AM, Ca By <cb.list6@gmail.com (mailto:cb.list6@gmail.com)> wrote:
On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 5:16 AM David Hubbard <dhubbard@dino.hostasaurus.com (mailto:dhubbard@dino.hostasaurus.com)> wrote:
Have had the same sales rep for several years now; unfortunately he has no ability to fix their IPv6 peering issue so we’re slowly removing circuits, but otherwise for a handful of 10gig DIA circuits it’s been stable.
Yep, this. Whenever Cogent calls, this is what i tell them. Black-holing HE and Google ipv6 traffic, which is what they do if i use a default route from them, is dead on arrival. Shows they make bad decisions and dont put the customer first, or even create such an illusion.
From: NANOG <nanog-bounces@nanog.org (mailto:nanog-bounces@nanog.org)> on behalf of Ryan Gelobter <ryan.g@atwgpc.net (mailto:ryan.g@atwgpc.net)> Date: Tuesday, October 16, 2018 at 6:04 AM To: NANOG <nanog@nanog.org (mailto:nanog@nanog.org)> Subject: Whats going on at Cogent
Anyone else seen terrible support and high turnover of sales/account people at Cogent the last few months? Is there something going on over there internally? I'm sure some people will say Cogent has always been crap but in the past their account reps and support were pretty good. It seems to have gone downhill the last 12 months really bad.
Regards,
Ryan
We have been very happy with HE. It was a no brainer over cogent. They are smaller (so are we). When there are issues they are real fast to fix them, you also get the personal touch which you don't get with others. On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 10:10 AM, Eric Dugas <edugas@unknowndevice.ca> wrote:
I don't really get the Cogent/Google peering issues. I've been hearing this for years... How about fixing it already? Telling customer to get other transit providers to get to a given network is really bad.
On a side note, HE is still HE but they're trying really hard to be a good netcitizen. They've finally pushed filtering for peers: http://routing.he.net. I wouldn't get transit from them, but in some markets, they're the only affordable IP transit providers.
On Oct 16 2018, at 10:04 am, DaKnOb <daknob.mac@gmail.com> wrote:
When I call and mention it I’m told that it’s HE’s fault (despite the lovely cake), but when I also bring Google, then they tell me to get a different provider just for this traffic, or meet them at an IX and send my traffic from there.
About the staff rotation I’ve seen it too, and I’ve also seen an increase in salespeople calling, for example when an AS is registered etc. in addition to the normal calls..
On 16 Oct 2018, at 16:54, Dovid Bender <dovid@telecurve.com> wrote:
They call me every few months. the last time they emailed me I said I wasn't interested because of the HE issue. I have yet to get another email.......
On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 9:29 AM, Ca By <cb.list6@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 5:16 AM David Hubbard < dhubbard@dino.hostasaurus.com> wrote:
Have had the same sales rep for several years now; unfortunately he has no ability to fix their IPv6 peering issue so we’re slowly removing circuits, but otherwise for a handful of 10gig DIA circuits it’s been stable.
Yep, this. Whenever Cogent calls, this is what i tell them. Black-holing HE and Google ipv6 traffic, which is what they do if i use a default route from them, is dead on arrival. Shows they make bad decisions and dont put the customer first, or even create such an illusion.
*From: *NANOG <nanog-bounces@nanog.org> on behalf of Ryan Gelobter < ryan.g@atwgpc.net> *Date: *Tuesday, October 16, 2018 at 6:04 AM *To: *NANOG <nanog@nanog.org> *Subject: *Whats going on at Cogent
Anyone else seen terrible support and high turnover of sales/account people at Cogent the last few months? Is there something going on over there internally? I'm sure some people will say Cogent has always been crap but in the past their account reps and support were pretty good. It seems to have gone downhill the last 12 months really bad.
Regards, Ryan
Is he.net smaller than Cogent? Over the past 24 hours we had 6.7 Gbps peak from our HE link and 336 Mbps peak from our Cogent link. This is inbound traffic. We are eyeballs and our outbound is a small fraction of our inbound. Regards. Baldur On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 4:17 PM Dovid Bender <dovid@telecurve.com> wrote:
We have been very happy with HE. It was a no brainer over cogent. They are smaller (so are we). When there are issues they are real fast to fix them, you also get the personal touch which you don't get with others.
On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 10:10 AM, Eric Dugas <edugas@unknowndevice.ca> wrote:
I don't really get the Cogent/Google peering issues. I've been hearing this for years... How about fixing it already? Telling customer to get other transit providers to get to a given network is really bad.
On a side note, HE is still HE but they're trying really hard to be a good netcitizen. They've finally pushed filtering for peers: http://routing.he.net. I wouldn't get transit from them, but in some markets, they're the only affordable IP transit providers.
On Oct 16 2018, at 10:04 am, DaKnOb <daknob.mac@gmail.com> wrote:
When I call and mention it I’m told that it’s HE’s fault (despite the lovely cake), but when I also bring Google, then they tell me to get a different provider just for this traffic, or meet them at an IX and send my traffic from there.
About the staff rotation I’ve seen it too, and I’ve also seen an increase in salespeople calling, for example when an AS is registered etc. in addition to the normal calls..
On 16 Oct 2018, at 16:54, Dovid Bender <dovid@telecurve.com> wrote:
They call me every few months. the last time they emailed me I said I wasn't interested because of the HE issue. I have yet to get another email.......
On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 9:29 AM, Ca By <cb.list6@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 5:16 AM David Hubbard < dhubbard@dino.hostasaurus.com> wrote:
Have had the same sales rep for several years now; unfortunately he has no ability to fix their IPv6 peering issue so we’re slowly removing circuits, but otherwise for a handful of 10gig DIA circuits it’s been stable.
Yep, this. Whenever Cogent calls, this is what i tell them. Black-holing HE and Google ipv6 traffic, which is what they do if i use a default route from them, is dead on arrival. Shows they make bad decisions and dont put the customer first, or even create such an illusion.
*From: *NANOG <nanog-bounces@nanog.org> on behalf of Ryan Gelobter < ryan.g@atwgpc.net> *Date: *Tuesday, October 16, 2018 at 6:04 AM *To: *NANOG <nanog@nanog.org> *Subject: *Whats going on at Cogent
Anyone else seen terrible support and high turnover of sales/account people at Cogent the last few months? Is there something going on over there internally? I'm sure some people will say Cogent has always been crap but in the past their account reps and support were pretty good. It seems to have gone downhill the last 12 months really bad.
Regards, Ryan
I guess first thing's first... you aren't doing anything to force the traffic that way, are you? If you've got IPv6 deployed, chances are that no Google will be coming over that Cogent. :-) CAIDA says Cogent is bigger. http://as-rank.caida.org/asns/174/as-core http://as-rank.caida.org/asns/6939/as-core Being an eyeball network, what's going to impact that kind of usage the most is where the next up connections to Netflix, Google, Akamai, Cloudflare, etc. are located. If they're closer via HE than Cogent, that's where your traffic will come from. Looking at your network specifically, Netflix isn't on either IX that you're on, so that HE traffic very well could be a majority Netflix. What do your netflows say? ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP ----- Original Message ----- From: "Baldur Norddahl" <baldur.norddahl@gmail.com> To: nanog@nanog.org Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2018 3:20:12 AM Subject: Re: Whats going on at Cogent Is he.net smaller than Cogent? Over the past 24 hours we had 6.7 Gbps peak from our HE link and 336 Mbps peak from our Cogent link. This is inbound traffic. We are eyeballs and our outbound is a small fraction of our inbound. Regards. Baldur On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 4:17 PM Dovid Bender < dovid@telecurve.com > wrote: We have been very happy with HE. It was a no brainer over cogent. They are smaller (so are we). When there are issues they are real fast to fix them, you also get the personal touch which you don't get with others. On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 10:10 AM, Eric Dugas < edugas@unknowndevice.ca > wrote: <blockquote> I don't really get the Cogent/Google peering issues. I've been hearing this for years... How about fixing it already? Telling customer to get other transit providers to get to a given network is really bad. On a side note, HE is still HE but they're trying really hard to be a good netcitizen. They've finally pushed filtering for peers: http://routing.he.net . I wouldn't get transit from them, but in some markets, they're the only affordable IP transit providers. On Oct 16 2018, at 10:04 am, DaKnOb < daknob.mac@gmail.com > wrote: <blockquote> When I call and mention it I’m told that it’s HE’s fault (despite the lovely cake), but when I also bring Google, then they tell me to get a different provider just for this traffic, or meet them at an IX and send my traffic from there. About the staff rotation I’ve seen it too, and I’ve also seen an increase in salespeople calling, for example when an AS is registered etc. in addition to the normal calls.. On 16 Oct 2018, at 16:54, Dovid Bender < dovid@telecurve.com > wrote: <blockquote> They call me every few months. the last time they emailed me I said I wasn't interested because of the HE issue. I have yet to get another email....... On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 9:29 AM, Ca By < cb.list6@gmail.com > wrote: <blockquote> On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 5:16 AM David Hubbard < dhubbard@dino.hostasaurus.com > wrote: <blockquote> Have had the same sales rep for several years now; unfortunately he has no ability to fix their IPv6 peering issue so we’re slowly removing circuits, but otherwise for a handful of 10gig DIA circuits it’s been stable. Yep, this. Whenever Cogent calls, this is what i tell them. Black-holing HE and Google ipv6 traffic, which is what they do if i use a default route from them, is dead on arrival. Shows they make bad decisions and dont put the customer first, or even create such an illusion. <blockquote> From: NANOG < nanog-bounces@nanog.org > on behalf of Ryan Gelobter < ryan.g@atwgpc.net > Date: Tuesday, October 16, 2018 at 6:04 AM To: NANOG < nanog@nanog.org > Subject: Whats going on at Cogent Anyone else seen terrible support and high turnover of sales/account people at Cogent the last few months? Is there something going on over there internally? I'm sure some people will say Cogent has always been crap but in the past their account reps and support were pretty good. It seems to have gone downhill the last 12 months really bad. Regards, Ryan </blockquote> </blockquote> </blockquote> </blockquote> </blockquote> </blockquote>
If he only uses a default route then his outbound routing won’t have anything to do with what destinations are closer, etc Aaron
On Oct 21, 2018, at 7:39 AM, Mike Hammett <nanog@ics-il.net> wrote:
I guess first thing's first... you aren't doing anything to force the traffic that way, are you?
If you've got IPv6 deployed, chances are that no Google will be coming over that Cogent. :-)
CAIDA says Cogent is bigger.
http://as-rank.caida.org/asns/174/as-core http://as-rank.caida.org/asns/6939/as-core
Being an eyeball network, what's going to impact that kind of usage the most is where the next up connections to Netflix, Google, Akamai, Cloudflare, etc. are located. If they're closer via HE than Cogent, that's where your traffic will come from.
Looking at your network specifically, Netflix isn't on either IX that you're on, so that HE traffic very well could be a majority Netflix.
What do your netflows say?
----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions
Midwest Internet Exchange
The Brothers WISP
From: "Baldur Norddahl" <baldur.norddahl@gmail.com> To: nanog@nanog.org Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2018 3:20:12 AM Subject: Re: Whats going on at Cogent
Is he.net smaller than Cogent? Over the past 24 hours we had 6.7 Gbps peak from our HE link and 336 Mbps peak from our Cogent link. This is inbound traffic. We are eyeballs and our outbound is a small fraction of our inbound.
Regards.
Baldur
On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 4:17 PM Dovid Bender <dovid@telecurve.com> wrote: We have been very happy with HE. It was a no brainer over cogent. They are smaller (so are we). When there are issues they are real fast to fix them, you also get the personal touch which you don't get with others.
On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 10:10 AM, Eric Dugas <edugas@unknowndevice.ca> wrote: I don't really get the Cogent/Google peering issues. I've been hearing this for years... How about fixing it already? Telling customer to get other transit providers to get to a given network is really bad.
On a side note, HE is still HE but they're trying really hard to be a good netcitizen. They've finally pushed filtering for peers: http://routing.he.net. I wouldn't get transit from them, but in some markets, they're the only affordable IP transit providers.
On Oct 16 2018, at 10:04 am, DaKnOb <daknob.mac@gmail.com> wrote:
When I call and mention it I’m told that it’s HE’s fault (despite the lovely cake), but when I also bring Google, then they tell me to get a different provider just for this traffic, or meet them at an IX and send my traffic from there.
About the staff rotation I’ve seen it too, and I’ve also seen an increase in salespeople calling, for example when an AS is registered etc. in addition to the normal calls..
On 16 Oct 2018, at 16:54, Dovid Bender <dovid@telecurve.com> wrote:
They call me every few months. the last time they emailed me I said I wasn't interested because of the HE issue. I have yet to get another email.......
On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 9:29 AM, Ca By <cb.list6@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 5:16 AM David Hubbard <dhubbard@dino.hostasaurus.com> wrote: Have had the same sales rep for several years now; unfortunately he has no ability to fix their IPv6 peering issue so we’re slowly removing circuits, but otherwise for a handful of 10gig DIA circuits it’s been stable.
Yep, this. Whenever Cogent calls, this is what i tell them. Black-holing HE and Google ipv6 traffic, which is what they do if i use a default route from them, is dead on arrival. Shows they make bad decisions and dont put the customer first, or even create such an illusion.
From: NANOG <nanog-bounces@nanog.org> on behalf of Ryan Gelobter <ryan.g@atwgpc.net> Date: Tuesday, October 16, 2018 at 6:04 AM To: NANOG <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Whats going on at Cogent
Anyone else seen terrible support and high turnover of sales/account people at Cogent the last few months? Is there something going on over there internally? I'm sure some people will say Cogent has always been crap but in the past their account reps and support were pretty good. It seems to have gone downhill the last 12 months really bad.
Regards, Ryan
I didn't explicitly refer to outbound routing in my post, but maybe this is a tangent. The outbound routing is a major factor in CDNs like Cloudflare that are anycasted and serve from the same node the request is received on. For other CDNs, your outbound routing strategy will have a lesser impact. I intentionally didn't get technical with my response because "closer" could mean many things, depending on routing configurations, IX connections, CDN magic sauce, etc. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aaron1" <aaron1@gvtc.com> To: "Mike Hammett" <nanog@ics-il.net> Cc: nanog@nanog.org Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2018 11:51:53 AM Subject: Re: Whats going on at Cogent If he only uses a default route then his outbound routing won’t have anything to do with what destinations are closer, etc Aaron On Oct 21, 2018, at 7:39 AM, Mike Hammett < nanog@ics-il.net > wrote: I guess first thing's first... you aren't doing anything to force the traffic that way, are you? If you've got IPv6 deployed, chances are that no Google will be coming over that Cogent. :-) CAIDA says Cogent is bigger. http://as-rank.caida.org/asns/174/as-core http://as-rank.caida.org/asns/6939/as-core Being an eyeball network, what's going to impact that kind of usage the most is where the next up connections to Netflix, Google, Akamai, Cloudflare, etc. are located. If they're closer via HE than Cogent, that's where your traffic will come from. Looking at your network specifically, Netflix isn't on either IX that you're on, so that HE traffic very well could be a majority Netflix. What do your netflows say? ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP ----- Original Message ----- From: "Baldur Norddahl" < baldur.norddahl@gmail.com > To: nanog@nanog.org Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2018 3:20:12 AM Subject: Re: Whats going on at Cogent Is he.net smaller than Cogent? Over the past 24 hours we had 6.7 Gbps peak from our HE link and 336 Mbps peak from our Cogent link. This is inbound traffic. We are eyeballs and our outbound is a small fraction of our inbound. Regards. Baldur On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 4:17 PM Dovid Bender < dovid@telecurve.com > wrote: <blockquote> We have been very happy with HE. It was a no brainer over cogent. They are smaller (so are we). When there are issues they are real fast to fix them, you also get the personal touch which you don't get with others. On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 10:10 AM, Eric Dugas < edugas@unknowndevice.ca > wrote: <blockquote> I don't really get the Cogent/Google peering issues. I've been hearing this for years... How about fixing it already? Telling customer to get other transit providers to get to a given network is really bad. On a side note, HE is still HE but they're trying really hard to be a good netcitizen. They've finally pushed filtering for peers: http://routing.he.net . I wouldn't get transit from them, but in some markets, they're the only affordable IP transit providers. On Oct 16 2018, at 10:04 am, DaKnOb < daknob.mac@gmail.com > wrote: <blockquote> When I call and mention it I’m told that it’s HE’s fault (despite the lovely cake), but when I also bring Google, then they tell me to get a different provider just for this traffic, or meet them at an IX and send my traffic from there. About the staff rotation I’ve seen it too, and I’ve also seen an increase in salespeople calling, for example when an AS is registered etc. in addition to the normal calls.. On 16 Oct 2018, at 16:54, Dovid Bender < dovid@telecurve.com > wrote: <blockquote> They call me every few months. the last time they emailed me I said I wasn't interested because of the HE issue. I have yet to get another email....... On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 9:29 AM, Ca By < cb.list6@gmail.com > wrote: <blockquote> On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 5:16 AM David Hubbard < dhubbard@dino.hostasaurus.com > wrote: <blockquote> Have had the same sales rep for several years now; unfortunately he has no ability to fix their IPv6 peering issue so we’re slowly removing circuits, but otherwise for a handful of 10gig DIA circuits it’s been stable. Yep, this. Whenever Cogent calls, this is what i tell them. Black-holing HE and Google ipv6 traffic, which is what they do if i use a default route from them, is dead on arrival. Shows they make bad decisions and dont put the customer first, or even create such an illusion. <blockquote> From: NANOG < nanog-bounces@nanog.org > on behalf of Ryan Gelobter < ryan.g@atwgpc.net > Date: Tuesday, October 16, 2018 at 6:04 AM To: NANOG < nanog@nanog.org > Subject: Whats going on at Cogent Anyone else seen terrible support and high turnover of sales/account people at Cogent the last few months? Is there something going on over there internally? I'm sure some people will say Cogent has always been crap but in the past their account reps and support were pretty good. It seems to have gone downhill the last 12 months really bad. Regards, Ryan </blockquote> </blockquote> </blockquote> </blockquote> </blockquote> </blockquote> </blockquote>
Bear in mind that many orgs will prefer their cheapest link for outbound, and I'm pretty sure HE is cheaper than Cogent. Someone else's outbound traffic going through HE means your inbound traffic coming through HE. On Sun, Oct 21, 2018 at 1:19 PM, Mike Hammett <nanog@ics-il.net> wrote:
I didn't explicitly refer to outbound routing in my post, but maybe this is a tangent.
The outbound routing is a major factor in CDNs like Cloudflare that are anycasted and serve from the same node the request is received on. For other CDNs, your outbound routing strategy will have a lesser impact.
I intentionally didn't get technical with my response because "closer" could mean many things, depending on routing configurations, IX connections, CDN magic sauce, etc.
----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> ------------------------------ *From: *"Aaron1" <aaron1@gvtc.com> *To: *"Mike Hammett" <nanog@ics-il.net> *Cc: *nanog@nanog.org *Sent: *Sunday, October 21, 2018 11:51:53 AM
*Subject: *Re: Whats going on at Cogent
If he only uses a default route then his outbound routing won’t have anything to do with what destinations are closer, etc
Aaron
On Oct 21, 2018, at 7:39 AM, Mike Hammett <nanog@ics-il.net> wrote:
I guess first thing's first... you aren't doing anything to force the traffic that way, are you?
If you've got IPv6 deployed, chances are that no Google will be coming over that Cogent. :-)
CAIDA says Cogent is bigger.
http://as-rank.caida.org/asns/174/as-core http://as-rank.caida.org/asns/6939/as-core
Being an eyeball network, what's going to impact that kind of usage the most is where the next up connections to Netflix, Google, Akamai, Cloudflare, etc. are located. If they're closer via HE than Cogent, that's where your traffic will come from.
Looking at your network specifically, Netflix isn't on either IX that you're on, so that HE traffic very well could be a majority Netflix.
What do your netflows say?
----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> ------------------------------ *From: *"Baldur Norddahl" <baldur.norddahl@gmail.com> *To: *nanog@nanog.org *Sent: *Sunday, October 21, 2018 3:20:12 AM *Subject: *Re: Whats going on at Cogent
Is he.net smaller than Cogent? Over the past 24 hours we had 6.7 Gbps peak from our HE link and 336 Mbps peak from our Cogent link. This is inbound traffic. We are eyeballs and our outbound is a small fraction of our inbound.
Regards.
Baldur
On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 4:17 PM Dovid Bender <dovid@telecurve.com> wrote:
We have been very happy with HE. It was a no brainer over cogent. They are smaller (so are we). When there are issues they are real fast to fix them, you also get the personal touch which you don't get with others.
On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 10:10 AM, Eric Dugas <edugas@unknowndevice.ca> wrote:
I don't really get the Cogent/Google peering issues. I've been hearing this for years... How about fixing it already? Telling customer to get other transit providers to get to a given network is really bad.
On a side note, HE is still HE but they're trying really hard to be a good netcitizen. They've finally pushed filtering for peers: http://routing.he.net. I wouldn't get transit from them, but in some markets, they're the only affordable IP transit providers.
On Oct 16 2018, at 10:04 am, DaKnOb <daknob.mac@gmail.com> wrote:
When I call and mention it I’m told that it’s HE’s fault (despite the lovely cake), but when I also bring Google, then they tell me to get a different provider just for this traffic, or meet them at an IX and send my traffic from there.
About the staff rotation I’ve seen it too, and I’ve also seen an increase in salespeople calling, for example when an AS is registered etc. in addition to the normal calls..
On 16 Oct 2018, at 16:54, Dovid Bender <dovid@telecurve.com> wrote:
They call me every few months. the last time they emailed me I said I wasn't interested because of the HE issue. I have yet to get another email.......
On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 9:29 AM, Ca By <cb.list6@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 5:16 AM David Hubbard < dhubbard@dino.hostasaurus.com> wrote:
Have had the same sales rep for several years now; unfortunately he has no ability to fix their IPv6 peering issue so we’re slowly removing circuits, but otherwise for a handful of 10gig DIA circuits it’s been stable.
Yep, this. Whenever Cogent calls, this is what i tell them. Black-holing HE and Google ipv6 traffic, which is what they do if i use a default route from them, is dead on arrival. Shows they make bad decisions and dont put the customer first, or even create such an illusion.
*From: *NANOG <nanog-bounces@nanog.org> on behalf of Ryan Gelobter < ryan.g@atwgpc.net> *Date: *Tuesday, October 16, 2018 at 6:04 AM *To: *NANOG <nanog@nanog.org> *Subject: *Whats going on at Cogent
Anyone else seen terrible support and high turnover of sales/account people at Cogent the last few months? Is there something going on over there internally? I'm sure some people will say Cogent has always been crap but in the past their account reps and support were pretty good. It seems to have gone downhill the last 12 months really bad.
Regards, Ryan
Hello Our network is connected as follows: 1) We are fully IPv6 deployed 2) We have direct peerings with Google, Apple, Microsoft, Akamai, Cloudflare, etc 3) We have cache servers from Netflix and Akamai 4) We are peered with the route servers on NL-IX and STHIX CPH. 5) Transit from HE, Cogent, GlobalConnect. I am not doing anything to force traffic to the Cogent link (why would I?). But I am not doing anything to force it off either. The nice people at Cogent will regularly call me and ask if I want to buy more transit. However I can not make their network deliver more traffic. I only fully control the outbound and that is a small fraction of our inbound. I understand that measured by "AS rank" Cogent might have more, but that does not translate to traffic in our case. This got to be a problem for them. Regards, Baldur On Sun, Oct 21, 2018 at 2:41 PM Mike Hammett <nanog@ics-il.net> wrote:
I guess first thing's first... you aren't doing anything to force the traffic that way, are you?
If you've got IPv6 deployed, chances are that no Google will be coming over that Cogent. :-)
CAIDA says Cogent is bigger.
http://as-rank.caida.org/asns/174/as-core http://as-rank.caida.org/asns/6939/as-core
Being an eyeball network, what's going to impact that kind of usage the most is where the next up connections to Netflix, Google, Akamai, Cloudflare, etc. are located. If they're closer via HE than Cogent, that's where your traffic will come from.
Looking at your network specifically, Netflix isn't on either IX that you're on, so that HE traffic very well could be a majority Netflix.
What do your netflows say?
----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> ------------------------------ *From: *"Baldur Norddahl" <baldur.norddahl@gmail.com> *To: *nanog@nanog.org *Sent: *Sunday, October 21, 2018 3:20:12 AM *Subject: *Re: Whats going on at Cogent
Is he.net smaller than Cogent? Over the past 24 hours we had 6.7 Gbps peak from our HE link and 336 Mbps peak from our Cogent link. This is inbound traffic. We are eyeballs and our outbound is a small fraction of our inbound.
Regards.
Baldur
On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 4:17 PM Dovid Bender <dovid@telecurve.com> wrote:
We have been very happy with HE. It was a no brainer over cogent. They are smaller (so are we). When there are issues they are real fast to fix them, you also get the personal touch which you don't get with others.
On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 10:10 AM, Eric Dugas <edugas@unknowndevice.ca> wrote:
I don't really get the Cogent/Google peering issues. I've been hearing this for years... How about fixing it already? Telling customer to get other transit providers to get to a given network is really bad.
On a side note, HE is still HE but they're trying really hard to be a good netcitizen. They've finally pushed filtering for peers: http://routing.he.net. I wouldn't get transit from them, but in some markets, they're the only affordable IP transit providers.
On Oct 16 2018, at 10:04 am, DaKnOb <daknob.mac@gmail.com> wrote:
When I call and mention it I’m told that it’s HE’s fault (despite the lovely cake), but when I also bring Google, then they tell me to get a different provider just for this traffic, or meet them at an IX and send my traffic from there.
About the staff rotation I’ve seen it too, and I’ve also seen an increase in salespeople calling, for example when an AS is registered etc. in addition to the normal calls..
On 16 Oct 2018, at 16:54, Dovid Bender <dovid@telecurve.com> wrote:
They call me every few months. the last time they emailed me I said I wasn't interested because of the HE issue. I have yet to get another email.......
On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 9:29 AM, Ca By <cb.list6@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 5:16 AM David Hubbard < dhubbard@dino.hostasaurus.com> wrote:
Have had the same sales rep for several years now; unfortunately he has no ability to fix their IPv6 peering issue so we’re slowly removing circuits, but otherwise for a handful of 10gig DIA circuits it’s been stable.
Yep, this. Whenever Cogent calls, this is what i tell them. Black-holing HE and Google ipv6 traffic, which is what they do if i use a default route from them, is dead on arrival. Shows they make bad decisions and dont put the customer first, or even create such an illusion.
*From: *NANOG <nanog-bounces@nanog.org> on behalf of Ryan Gelobter < ryan.g@atwgpc.net> *Date: *Tuesday, October 16, 2018 at 6:04 AM *To: *NANOG <nanog@nanog.org> *Subject: *Whats going on at Cogent
Anyone else seen terrible support and high turnover of sales/account people at Cogent the last few months? Is there something going on over there internally? I'm sure some people will say Cogent has always been crap but in the past their account reps and support were pretty good. It seems to have gone downhill the last 12 months really bad.
Regards, Ryan
Cogent is bigger. HE is more widely peered, especially in IPv6. I may be somewhat prejudice, though I don’t work for HE any more. Most on this list know the history so I won’t repeat it here. Owen
On Oct 21, 2018, at 05:39 , Mike Hammett <nanog@ics-il.net> wrote:
I guess first thing's first... you aren't doing anything to force the traffic that way, are you?
If you've got IPv6 deployed, chances are that no Google will be coming over that Cogent. :-)
CAIDA says Cogent is bigger.
http://as-rank.caida.org/asns/174/as-core <http://as-rank.caida.org/asns/174/as-core> http://as-rank.caida.org/asns/6939/as-core <http://as-rank.caida.org/asns/6939/as-core>
Being an eyeball network, what's going to impact that kind of usage the most is where the next up connections to Netflix, Google, Akamai, Cloudflare, etc. are located. If they're closer via HE than Cogent, that's where your traffic will come from.
Looking at your network specifically, Netflix isn't on either IX that you're on, so that HE traffic very well could be a majority Netflix.
What do your netflows say?
----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> From: "Baldur Norddahl" <baldur.norddahl@gmail.com> To: nanog@nanog.org Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2018 3:20:12 AM Subject: Re: Whats going on at Cogent
Is he.net <http://he.net/> smaller than Cogent? Over the past 24 hours we had 6.7 Gbps peak from our HE link and 336 Mbps peak from our Cogent link. This is inbound traffic. We are eyeballs and our outbound is a small fraction of our inbound.
Regards.
Baldur
On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 4:17 PM Dovid Bender <dovid@telecurve.com <mailto:dovid@telecurve.com>> wrote: We have been very happy with HE. It was a no brainer over cogent. They are smaller (so are we). When there are issues they are real fast to fix them, you also get the personal touch which you don't get with others.
On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 10:10 AM, Eric Dugas <edugas@unknowndevice.ca <mailto:edugas@unknowndevice.ca>> wrote: I don't really get the Cogent/Google peering issues. I've been hearing this for years... How about fixing it already? Telling customer to get other transit providers to get to a given network is really bad.
On a side note, HE is still HE but they're trying really hard to be a good netcitizen. They've finally pushed filtering for peers: http://routing.he.net <http://routing.he.net/>. I wouldn't get transit from them, but in some markets, they're the only affordable IP transit providers.
On Oct 16 2018, at 10:04 am, DaKnOb <daknob.mac@gmail.com <mailto:daknob.mac@gmail.com>> wrote:
When I call and mention it I’m told that it’s HE’s fault (despite the lovely cake), but when I also bring Google, then they tell me to get a different provider just for this traffic, or meet them at an IX and send my traffic from there.
About the staff rotation I’ve seen it too, and I’ve also seen an increase in salespeople calling, for example when an AS is registered etc. in addition to the normal calls..
On 16 Oct 2018, at 16:54, Dovid Bender <dovid@telecurve.com <mailto:dovid@telecurve.com>> wrote:
They call me every few months. the last time they emailed me I said I wasn't interested because of the HE issue. I have yet to get another email.......
On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 9:29 AM, Ca By <cb.list6@gmail.com <mailto:cb.list6@gmail.com>> wrote:
On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 5:16 AM David Hubbard <dhubbard@dino.hostasaurus.com <mailto:dhubbard@dino.hostasaurus.com>> wrote: Have had the same sales rep for several years now; unfortunately he has no ability to fix their IPv6 peering issue so we’re slowly removing circuits, but otherwise for a handful of 10gig DIA circuits it’s been stable.
Yep, this. Whenever Cogent calls, this is what i tell them. Black-holing HE and Google ipv6 traffic, which is what they do if i use a default route from them, is dead on arrival. Shows they make bad decisions and dont put the customer first, or even create such an illusion.
From: NANOG <nanog-bounces@nanog.org <mailto:nanog-bounces@nanog.org>> on behalf of Ryan Gelobter <ryan.g@atwgpc.net <mailto:ryan.g@atwgpc.net>> Date: Tuesday, October 16, 2018 at 6:04 AM To: NANOG <nanog@nanog.org <mailto:nanog@nanog.org>> Subject: Whats going on at Cogent
Anyone else seen terrible support and high turnover of sales/account people at Cogent the last few months? Is there something going on over there internally? I'm sure some people will say Cogent has always been crap but in the past their account reps and support were pretty good. It seems to have gone downhill the last 12 months really bad.
Regards, Ryan
If there is history about HE I should know before signing up with them I'd love to know off list. If it's just between you and HE I hope it wasn't too bad, and I'd be happy to listen, but I don't feel like it's something you need to share at all. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 5:43 PM, Owen DeLong <owen@delong.com> wrote:
Cogent is bigger.
HE is more widely peered, especially in IPv6.
I may be somewhat prejudice, though I don’t work for HE any more. Most on this list know the history so I won’t repeat it here.
Owen
On Oct 21, 2018, at 05:39 , Mike Hammett <nanog@ics-il.net> wrote:
I guess first thing's first... you aren't doing anything to force the traffic that way, are you?
If you've got IPv6 deployed, chances are that no Google will be coming over that Cogent. :-)
CAIDA says Cogent is bigger.
http://as-rank.caida.org/asns/174/as-core http://as-rank.caida.org/asns/6939/as-core
Being an eyeball network, what's going to impact that kind of usage the most is where the next up connections to Netflix, Google, Akamai, Cloudflare, etc. are located. If they're closer via HE than Cogent, that's where your traffic will come from.
Looking at your network specifically, Netflix isn't on either IX that you're on, so that HE traffic very well could be a majority Netflix.
What do your netflows say?
----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> ------------------------------ *From: *"Baldur Norddahl" <baldur.norddahl@gmail.com> *To: *nanog@nanog.org *Sent: *Sunday, October 21, 2018 3:20:12 AM *Subject: *Re: Whats going on at Cogent
Is he.net smaller than Cogent? Over the past 24 hours we had 6.7 Gbps peak from our HE link and 336 Mbps peak from our Cogent link. This is inbound traffic. We are eyeballs and our outbound is a small fraction of our inbound.
Regards.
Baldur
On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 4:17 PM Dovid Bender <dovid@telecurve.com> wrote:
We have been very happy with HE. It was a no brainer over cogent. They are smaller (so are we). When there are issues they are real fast to fix them, you also get the personal touch which you don't get with others.
On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 10:10 AM, Eric Dugas <edugas@unknowndevice.ca> wrote:
I don't really get the Cogent/Google peering issues. I've been hearing this for years... How about fixing it already? Telling customer to get other transit providers to get to a given network is really bad.
On a side note, HE is still HE but they're trying really hard to be a good netcitizen. They've finally pushed filtering for peers: http://routing.he.net. I wouldn't get transit from them, but in some markets, they're the only affordable IP transit providers.
On Oct 16 2018, at 10:04 am, DaKnOb <daknob.mac@gmail.com> wrote:
When I call and mention it I’m told that it’s HE’s fault (despite the lovely cake), but when I also bring Google, then they tell me to get a different provider just for this traffic, or meet them at an IX and send my traffic from there.
About the staff rotation I’ve seen it too, and I’ve also seen an increase in salespeople calling, for example when an AS is registered etc. in addition to the normal calls..
On 16 Oct 2018, at 16:54, Dovid Bender <dovid@telecurve.com> wrote:
They call me every few months. the last time they emailed me I said I wasn't interested because of the HE issue. I have yet to get another email.......
On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 9:29 AM, Ca By <cb.list6@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 5:16 AM David Hubbard < dhubbard@dino.hostasaurus.com> wrote:
Have had the same sales rep for several years now; unfortunately he has no ability to fix their IPv6 peering issue so we’re slowly removing circuits, but otherwise for a handful of 10gig DIA circuits it’s been stable.
Yep, this. Whenever Cogent calls, this is what i tell them. Black-holing HE and Google ipv6 traffic, which is what they do if i use a default route from them, is dead on arrival. Shows they make bad decisions and dont put the customer first, or even create such an illusion.
*From: *NANOG <nanog-bounces@nanog.org> on behalf of Ryan Gelobter < ryan.g@atwgpc.net> *Date: *Tuesday, October 16, 2018 at 6:04 AM *To: *NANOG <nanog@nanog.org> *Subject: *Whats going on at Cogent
Anyone else seen terrible support and high turnover of sales/account people at Cogent the last few months? Is there something going on over there internally? I'm sure some people will say Cogent has always been crap but in the past their account reps and support were pretty good. It seems to have gone downhill the last 12 months really bad.
Regards, Ryan
We've had HE for 4 years. Pretty great company with good bandwidth. Most of our traffic prefers them. Their support is top notch as well. On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 10:20 AM Josh Luthman <josh@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
If there is history about HE I should know before signing up with them I'd love to know off list.
If it's just between you and HE I hope it wasn't too bad, and I'd be happy to listen, but I don't feel like it's something you need to share at all.
Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373
On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 5:43 PM, Owen DeLong <owen@delong.com> wrote:
Cogent is bigger.
HE is more widely peered, especially in IPv6.
I may be somewhat prejudice, though I don’t work for HE any more. Most on this list know the history so I won’t repeat it here.
Owen
On Oct 21, 2018, at 05:39 , Mike Hammett <nanog@ics-il.net> wrote:
I guess first thing's first... you aren't doing anything to force the traffic that way, are you?
If you've got IPv6 deployed, chances are that no Google will be coming over that Cogent. :-)
CAIDA says Cogent is bigger.
http://as-rank.caida.org/asns/174/as-core http://as-rank.caida.org/asns/6939/as-core
Being an eyeball network, what's going to impact that kind of usage the most is where the next up connections to Netflix, Google, Akamai, Cloudflare, etc. are located. If they're closer via HE than Cogent, that's where your traffic will come from.
Looking at your network specifically, Netflix isn't on either IX that you're on, so that HE traffic very well could be a majority Netflix.
What do your netflows say?
----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> ------------------------------ *From: *"Baldur Norddahl" <baldur.norddahl@gmail.com> *To: *nanog@nanog.org *Sent: *Sunday, October 21, 2018 3:20:12 AM *Subject: *Re: Whats going on at Cogent
Is he.net smaller than Cogent? Over the past 24 hours we had 6.7 Gbps peak from our HE link and 336 Mbps peak from our Cogent link. This is inbound traffic. We are eyeballs and our outbound is a small fraction of our inbound.
Regards.
Baldur
On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 4:17 PM Dovid Bender <dovid@telecurve.com> wrote:
We have been very happy with HE. It was a no brainer over cogent. They are smaller (so are we). When there are issues they are real fast to fix them, you also get the personal touch which you don't get with others.
On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 10:10 AM, Eric Dugas <edugas@unknowndevice.ca> wrote:
I don't really get the Cogent/Google peering issues. I've been hearing this for years... How about fixing it already? Telling customer to get other transit providers to get to a given network is really bad.
On a side note, HE is still HE but they're trying really hard to be a good netcitizen. They've finally pushed filtering for peers: http://routing.he.net. I wouldn't get transit from them, but in some markets, they're the only affordable IP transit providers.
On Oct 16 2018, at 10:04 am, DaKnOb <daknob.mac@gmail.com> wrote:
When I call and mention it I’m told that it’s HE’s fault (despite the lovely cake), but when I also bring Google, then they tell me to get a different provider just for this traffic, or meet them at an IX and send my traffic from there.
About the staff rotation I’ve seen it too, and I’ve also seen an increase in salespeople calling, for example when an AS is registered etc. in addition to the normal calls..
On 16 Oct 2018, at 16:54, Dovid Bender <dovid@telecurve.com> wrote:
They call me every few months. the last time they emailed me I said I wasn't interested because of the HE issue. I have yet to get another email.......
On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 9:29 AM, Ca By <cb.list6@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 5:16 AM David Hubbard < dhubbard@dino.hostasaurus.com> wrote:
Have had the same sales rep for several years now; unfortunately he has no ability to fix their IPv6 peering issue so we’re slowly removing circuits, but otherwise for a handful of 10gig DIA circuits it’s been stable.
Yep, this. Whenever Cogent calls, this is what i tell them. Black-holing HE and Google ipv6 traffic, which is what they do if i use a default route from them, is dead on arrival. Shows they make bad decisions and dont put the customer first, or even create such an illusion.
*From: *NANOG <nanog-bounces@nanog.org> on behalf of Ryan Gelobter < ryan.g@atwgpc.net> *Date: *Tuesday, October 16, 2018 at 6:04 AM *To: *NANOG <nanog@nanog.org> *Subject: *Whats going on at Cogent
Anyone else seen terrible support and high turnover of sales/account people at Cogent the last few months? Is there something going on over there internally? I'm sure some people will say Cogent has always been crap but in the past their account reps and support were pretty good. It seems to have gone downhill the last 12 months really bad.
Regards, Ryan
-- Darin Steffl Minnesota WiFi www.mnwifi.com 507-634-WiFi <http://www.facebook.com/minnesotawifi> Like us on Facebook <http://www.facebook.com/minnesotawifi>
I am also interested in hearing about this. I think it's relevant to the current thread. On Tue, Oct 23, 2018, 11:22 AM Josh Luthman <josh@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
If there is history about HE I should know before signing up with them I'd love to know off list.
If it's just between you and HE I hope it wasn't too bad, and I'd be happy to listen, but I don't feel like it's something you need to share at all.
Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373
On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 5:43 PM, Owen DeLong <owen@delong.com> wrote:
Cogent is bigger.
HE is more widely peered, especially in IPv6.
I may be somewhat prejudice, though I don’t work for HE any more. Most on this list know the history so I won’t repeat it here.
Owen
On Oct 21, 2018, at 05:39 , Mike Hammett <nanog@ics-il.net> wrote:
I guess first thing's first... you aren't doing anything to force the traffic that way, are you?
If you've got IPv6 deployed, chances are that no Google will be coming over that Cogent. :-)
CAIDA says Cogent is bigger.
http://as-rank.caida.org/asns/174/as-core http://as-rank.caida.org/asns/6939/as-core
Being an eyeball network, what's going to impact that kind of usage the most is where the next up connections to Netflix, Google, Akamai, Cloudflare, etc. are located. If they're closer via HE than Cogent, that's where your traffic will come from.
Looking at your network specifically, Netflix isn't on either IX that you're on, so that HE traffic very well could be a majority Netflix.
What do your netflows say?
----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> ------------------------------ *From: *"Baldur Norddahl" <baldur.norddahl@gmail.com> *To: *nanog@nanog.org *Sent: *Sunday, October 21, 2018 3:20:12 AM *Subject: *Re: Whats going on at Cogent
Is he.net smaller than Cogent? Over the past 24 hours we had 6.7 Gbps peak from our HE link and 336 Mbps peak from our Cogent link. This is inbound traffic. We are eyeballs and our outbound is a small fraction of our inbound.
Regards.
Baldur
On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 4:17 PM Dovid Bender <dovid@telecurve.com> wrote:
We have been very happy with HE. It was a no brainer over cogent. They are smaller (so are we). When there are issues they are real fast to fix them, you also get the personal touch which you don't get with others.
On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 10:10 AM, Eric Dugas <edugas@unknowndevice.ca> wrote:
I don't really get the Cogent/Google peering issues. I've been hearing this for years... How about fixing it already? Telling customer to get other transit providers to get to a given network is really bad.
On a side note, HE is still HE but they're trying really hard to be a good netcitizen. They've finally pushed filtering for peers: http://routing.he.net. I wouldn't get transit from them, but in some markets, they're the only affordable IP transit providers.
On Oct 16 2018, at 10:04 am, DaKnOb <daknob.mac@gmail.com> wrote:
When I call and mention it I’m told that it’s HE’s fault (despite the lovely cake), but when I also bring Google, then they tell me to get a different provider just for this traffic, or meet them at an IX and send my traffic from there.
About the staff rotation I’ve seen it too, and I’ve also seen an increase in salespeople calling, for example when an AS is registered etc. in addition to the normal calls..
On 16 Oct 2018, at 16:54, Dovid Bender <dovid@telecurve.com> wrote:
They call me every few months. the last time they emailed me I said I wasn't interested because of the HE issue. I have yet to get another email.......
On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 9:29 AM, Ca By <cb.list6@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 5:16 AM David Hubbard < dhubbard@dino.hostasaurus.com> wrote:
Have had the same sales rep for several years now; unfortunately he has no ability to fix their IPv6 peering issue so we’re slowly removing circuits, but otherwise for a handful of 10gig DIA circuits it’s been stable.
Yep, this. Whenever Cogent calls, this is what i tell them. Black-holing HE and Google ipv6 traffic, which is what they do if i use a default route from them, is dead on arrival. Shows they make bad decisions and dont put the customer first, or even create such an illusion.
*From: *NANOG <nanog-bounces@nanog.org> on behalf of Ryan Gelobter < ryan.g@atwgpc.net> *Date: *Tuesday, October 16, 2018 at 6:04 AM *To: *NANOG <nanog@nanog.org> *Subject: *Whats going on at Cogent
Anyone else seen terrible support and high turnover of sales/account people at Cogent the last few months? Is there something going on over there internally? I'm sure some people will say Cogent has always been crap but in the past their account reps and support were pretty good. It seems to have gone downhill the last 12 months really bad.
Regards, Ryan
It isn't IMO Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 11:32 AM, Ross Tajvar <ross@tajvar.io> wrote:
I am also interested in hearing about this. I think it's relevant to the current thread.
On Tue, Oct 23, 2018, 11:22 AM Josh Luthman <josh@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
If there is history about HE I should know before signing up with them I'd love to know off list.
If it's just between you and HE I hope it wasn't too bad, and I'd be happy to listen, but I don't feel like it's something you need to share at all.
Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373&entry=gmail&source=g> Suite 1337 <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373&entry=gmail&source=g> Troy, OH 45373 <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373&entry=gmail&source=g>
On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 5:43 PM, Owen DeLong <owen@delong.com> wrote:
Cogent is bigger.
HE is more widely peered, especially in IPv6.
I may be somewhat prejudice, though I don’t work for HE any more. Most on this list know the history so I won’t repeat it here.
Owen
On Oct 21, 2018, at 05:39 , Mike Hammett <nanog@ics-il.net> wrote:
I guess first thing's first... you aren't doing anything to force the traffic that way, are you?
If you've got IPv6 deployed, chances are that no Google will be coming over that Cogent. :-)
CAIDA says Cogent is bigger.
http://as-rank.caida.org/asns/174/as-core http://as-rank.caida.org/asns/6939/as-core
Being an eyeball network, what's going to impact that kind of usage the most is where the next up connections to Netflix, Google, Akamai, Cloudflare, etc. are located. If they're closer via HE than Cogent, that's where your traffic will come from.
Looking at your network specifically, Netflix isn't on either IX that you're on, so that HE traffic very well could be a majority Netflix.
What do your netflows say?
----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> ------------------------------ *From: *"Baldur Norddahl" <baldur.norddahl@gmail.com> *To: *nanog@nanog.org *Sent: *Sunday, October 21, 2018 3:20:12 AM *Subject: *Re: Whats going on at Cogent
Is he.net smaller than Cogent? Over the past 24 hours we had 6.7 Gbps peak from our HE link and 336 Mbps peak from our Cogent link. This is inbound traffic. We are eyeballs and our outbound is a small fraction of our inbound.
Regards.
Baldur
On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 4:17 PM Dovid Bender <dovid@telecurve.com> wrote:
We have been very happy with HE. It was a no brainer over cogent. They are smaller (so are we). When there are issues they are real fast to fix them, you also get the personal touch which you don't get with others.
On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 10:10 AM, Eric Dugas <edugas@unknowndevice.ca> wrote:
I don't really get the Cogent/Google peering issues. I've been hearing this for years... How about fixing it already? Telling customer to get other transit providers to get to a given network is really bad.
On a side note, HE is still HE but they're trying really hard to be a good netcitizen. They've finally pushed filtering for peers: http://routing.he.net. I wouldn't get transit from them, but in some markets, they're the only affordable IP transit providers.
On Oct 16 2018, at 10:04 am, DaKnOb <daknob.mac@gmail.com> wrote:
When I call and mention it I’m told that it’s HE’s fault (despite the lovely cake), but when I also bring Google, then they tell me to get a different provider just for this traffic, or meet them at an IX and send my traffic from there.
About the staff rotation I’ve seen it too, and I’ve also seen an increase in salespeople calling, for example when an AS is registered etc. in addition to the normal calls..
On 16 Oct 2018, at 16:54, Dovid Bender <dovid@telecurve.com> wrote:
They call me every few months. the last time they emailed me I said I wasn't interested because of the HE issue. I have yet to get another email.......
On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 9:29 AM, Ca By <cb.list6@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 5:16 AM David Hubbard < dhubbard@dino.hostasaurus.com> wrote:
Have had the same sales rep for several years now; unfortunately he has no ability to fix their IPv6 peering issue so we’re slowly removing circuits, but otherwise for a handful of 10gig DIA circuits it’s been stable.
Yep, this. Whenever Cogent calls, this is what i tell them. Black-holing HE and Google ipv6 traffic, which is what they do if i use a default route from them, is dead on arrival. Shows they make bad decisions and dont put the customer first, or even create such an illusion.
*From: *NANOG <nanog-bounces@nanog.org> on behalf of Ryan Gelobter < ryan.g@atwgpc.net> *Date: *Tuesday, October 16, 2018 at 6:04 AM *To: *NANOG <nanog@nanog.org> *Subject: *Whats going on at Cogent
Anyone else seen terrible support and high turnover of sales/account people at Cogent the last few months? Is there something going on over there internally? I'm sure some people will say Cogent has always been crap but in the past their account reps and support were pretty good. It seems to have gone downhill the last 12 months really bad.
Regards, Ryan
On Oct 23, 2018, at 10:32 AM, Ross Tajvar <ross@tajvar.io> wrote:
I am also interested in hearing about this. I think it's relevant to the current thread.
Speaking only for myself, there are companies where I have done short-term contracts, and where I am definitely not interested in any further employment opportunities with them. OTOH, I am totally happy to continue to be a customer of theirs. Further discussion of that sort of thing would not be appropriate here. If Josh is in the same boat with HE, I totally understand. For the Network Time Foundation (and related projects), I think we've been pretty happy as a customer of HE, but then we're just a small customer of theirs. -- Brad Knowles <brad@shub-internet.org> Please forgive any typos. I'm fighting a failing keyboard on my laptop, in addition to having a broken finger.
Sorry all. I misread Owen's email. I'm not trying to air his private business to the list. On Tue, Oct 23, 2018, 8:20 PM Brad Knowles <brad@shub-internet.org> wrote:
On Oct 23, 2018, at 10:32 AM, Ross Tajvar <ross@tajvar.io> wrote:
I am also interested in hearing about this. I think it's relevant to the current thread.
Speaking only for myself, there are companies where I have done short-term contracts, and where I am definitely not interested in any further employment opportunities with them. OTOH, I am totally happy to continue to be a customer of theirs.
Further discussion of that sort of thing would not be appropriate here. If Josh is in the same boat with HE, I totally understand.
For the Network Time Foundation (and related projects), I think we've been pretty happy as a customer of HE, but then we're just a small customer of theirs.
-- Brad Knowles <brad@shub-internet.org>
Please forgive any typos. I'm fighting a failing keyboard on my laptop, in addition to having a broken finger.
On 10/23/2018 08:47 PM, Ross Tajvar wrote:
Sorry all. I misread Owen's email. I'm not trying to air his private business to the list.
There is no secret - a quick search on the terms HE, Cogent and peering (and possibly cake) will give you the answer. Presumably Owen is not expounding because he used to work for HE.
On Tue, Oct 23, 2018, 8:20 PM Brad Knowles <brad@shub-internet.org <mailto:brad@shub-internet.org>> wrote:
On Oct 23, 2018, at 10:32 AM, Ross Tajvar <ross@tajvar.io <mailto:ross@tajvar.io>> wrote:
> I am also interested in hearing about this. I think it's relevant to the current thread.
Speaking only for myself, there are companies where I have done short-term contracts, and where I am definitely not interested in any further employment opportunities with them. OTOH, I am totally happy to continue to be a customer of theirs.
Further discussion of that sort of thing would not be appropriate here. If Josh is in the same boat with HE, I totally understand.
For the Network Time Foundation (and related projects), I think we've been pretty happy as a customer of HE, but then we're just a small customer of theirs.
-- Brad Knowles <brad@shub-internet.org <mailto:brad@shub-internet.org>>
Please forgive any typos. I'm fighting a failing keyboard on my laptop, in addition to having a broken finger.
-- John PGP Public Key: 412934AC
Mainly I wasn’t expounding because I’m surprised to learn that there’s anyone on this list unfamiliar with it. Didn’t want to bore people. I tended to speak my mind while I worked for HE, I’m certainly not going to stop as a result of no longer working there. ;-) Owen
On Oct 24, 2018, at 04:51 , John Peach <john-nanog@peachfamily.net> wrote:
On 10/23/2018 08:47 PM, Ross Tajvar wrote:
Sorry all. I misread Owen's email. I'm not trying to air his private business to the list.
There is no secret - a quick search on the terms HE, Cogent and peering (and possibly cake) will give you the answer. Presumably Owen is not expounding because he used to work for HE.
On Tue, Oct 23, 2018, 8:20 PM Brad Knowles <brad@shub-internet.org <mailto:brad@shub-internet.org>> wrote: On Oct 23, 2018, at 10:32 AM, Ross Tajvar <ross@tajvar.io <mailto:ross@tajvar.io>> wrote: > I am also interested in hearing about this. I think it's relevant to the current thread. Speaking only for myself, there are companies where I have done short-term contracts, and where I am definitely not interested in any further employment opportunities with them. OTOH, I am totally happy to continue to be a customer of theirs. Further discussion of that sort of thing would not be appropriate here. If Josh is in the same boat with HE, I totally understand. For the Network Time Foundation (and related projects), I think we've been pretty happy as a customer of HE, but then we're just a small customer of theirs. -- Brad Knowles <brad@shub-internet.org <mailto:brad@shub-internet.org>> Please forgive any typos. I'm fighting a failing keyboard on my laptop, in addition to having a broken finger.
-- John PGP Public Key: 412934AC
I wasn't familiar with it, so thanks for sharing! The Google search for 'he cogent cake' was entertaining. Hard to believe that conflict is going on 9+ years.. Kenny -----Original Message----- From: NANOG <nanog-bounces@nanog.org> On Behalf Of Owen DeLong Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2018 2:54 PM To: nanog list <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Re: Whats going on at Cogent Mainly I wasn’t expounding because I’m surprised to learn that there’s anyone on this list unfamiliar with it. Didn’t want to bore people. I tended to speak my mind while I worked for HE, I’m certainly not going to stop as a result of no longer working there. ;-) Owen
On Oct 24, 2018, at 04:51 , John Peach <john-nanog@peachfamily.net> wrote:
On 10/23/2018 08:47 PM, Ross Tajvar wrote:
Sorry all. I misread Owen's email. I'm not trying to air his private business to the list.
There is no secret - a quick search on the terms HE, Cogent and peering (and possibly cake) will give you the answer. Presumably Owen is not expounding because he used to work for HE.
On Tue, Oct 23, 2018, 8:20 PM Brad Knowles <brad@shub-internet.org <mailto:brad@shub-internet.org>> wrote: On Oct 23, 2018, at 10:32 AM, Ross Tajvar <ross@tajvar.io <mailto:ross@tajvar.io>> wrote: > I am also interested in hearing about this. I think it's relevant to the current thread. Speaking only for myself, there are companies where I have done short-term contracts, and where I am definitely not interested in any further employment opportunities with them. OTOH, I am totally happy to continue to be a customer of theirs. Further discussion of that sort of thing would not be appropriate here. If Josh is in the same boat with HE, I totally understand. For the Network Time Foundation (and related projects), I think we've been pretty happy as a customer of HE, but then we're just a small customer of theirs. -- Brad Knowles <brad@shub-internet.org <mailto:brad@shub-internet.org>> Please forgive any typos. I'm fighting a failing keyboard on my laptop, in addition to having a broken finger.
-- John PGP Public Key: 412934AC
On Thu, Oct 25, 2018 at 1:54 PM Kenny Taylor <kenny.taylor@kccd.edu> wrote:
I wasn't familiar with it, so thanks for sharing! The Google search for 'he cogent cake' was entertaining. Hard to believe that conflict is going on 9+ years..
Kenny
I can vouch for it. The cake was delicious and moist. And it was not a lie. ;)
Maybe Cogent refuses to work with Google so nobody can search for evidence of said cake.... :) On Thu, Oct 25, 2018 at 4:55 PM Kenny Taylor <kenny.taylor@kccd.edu> wrote:
I wasn't familiar with it, so thanks for sharing! The Google search for 'he cogent cake' was entertaining. Hard to believe that conflict is going on 9+ years..
Kenny
-----Original Message----- From: NANOG <nanog-bounces@nanog.org> On Behalf Of Owen DeLong Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2018 2:54 PM To: nanog list <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Re: Whats going on at Cogent
Mainly I wasn’t expounding because I’m surprised to learn that there’s anyone on this list unfamiliar with it.
Didn’t want to bore people.
I tended to speak my mind while I worked for HE, I’m certainly not going to stop as a result of no longer working there. ;-)
Owen
On Oct 24, 2018, at 04:51 , John Peach <john-nanog@peachfamily.net> wrote:
On 10/23/2018 08:47 PM, Ross Tajvar wrote:
Sorry all. I misread Owen's email. I'm not trying to air his private business to the list.
There is no secret - a quick search on the terms HE, Cogent and peering (and possibly cake) will give you the answer. Presumably Owen is not expounding because he used to work for HE.
On Tue, Oct 23, 2018, 8:20 PM Brad Knowles <brad@shub-internet.org <mailto:brad@shub-internet.org>> wrote: On Oct 23, 2018, at 10:32 AM, Ross Tajvar <ross@tajvar.io <mailto:ross@tajvar.io>> wrote: > I am also interested in hearing about this. I think it's relevant to the current thread. Speaking only for myself, there are companies where I have done short-term contracts, and where I am definitely not interested in any further employment opportunities with them. OTOH, I am totally happy to continue to be a customer of theirs. Further discussion of that sort of thing would not be appropriate here. If Josh is in the same boat with HE, I totally understand. For the Network Time Foundation (and related projects), I think we've been pretty happy as a customer of HE, but then we're just a small customer of theirs. -- Brad Knowles <brad@shub-internet.org <mailto: brad@shub-internet.org>> Please forgive any typos. I'm fighting a failing keyboard on my laptop, in addition to having a broken finger.
-- John PGP Public Key: 412934AC
Let me Bing that for you. Oh, wait. On 10/30/18 9:41 AM, Tom Beecher wrote:
Maybe Cogent refuses to work with Google so nobody can search for evidence of said cake....
:)
On Thu, Oct 25, 2018 at 4:55 PM Kenny Taylor <kenny.taylor@kccd.edu <mailto:kenny.taylor@kccd.edu>> wrote:
I wasn't familiar with it, so thanks for sharing! The Google search for 'he cogent cake' was entertaining. Hard to believe that conflict is going on 9+ years..
Kenny
-----Original Message----- From: NANOG <nanog-bounces@nanog.org <mailto:nanog-bounces@nanog.org>> On Behalf Of Owen DeLong Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2018 2:54 PM To: nanog list <nanog@nanog.org <mailto:nanog@nanog.org>> Subject: Re: Whats going on at Cogent
Mainly I wasn’t expounding because I’m surprised to learn that there’s anyone on this list unfamiliar with it.
Didn’t want to bore people.
I tended to speak my mind while I worked for HE, I’m certainly not going to stop as a result of no longer working there. ;-)
Owen
> On Oct 24, 2018, at 04:51 , John Peach <john-nanog@peachfamily.net <mailto:john-nanog@peachfamily.net>> wrote: > > On 10/23/2018 08:47 PM, Ross Tajvar wrote: >> Sorry all. I misread Owen's email. I'm not trying to air his private business to the list. > > There is no secret - a quick search on the terms HE, Cogent and peering (and possibly cake) will give you the answer. Presumably Owen is not expounding because he used to work for HE. > >> On Tue, Oct 23, 2018, 8:20 PM Brad Knowles <brad@shub-internet.org <mailto:brad@shub-internet.org> <mailto:brad@shub-internet.org <mailto:brad@shub-internet.org>>> wrote: >> On Oct 23, 2018, at 10:32 AM, Ross Tajvar <ross@tajvar.io <mailto:ross@tajvar.io> >> <mailto:ross@tajvar.io <mailto:ross@tajvar.io>>> wrote: >> > I am also interested in hearing about this. I think it's relevant >> to the current thread. >> Speaking only for myself, there are companies where I have done >> short-term contracts, and where I am definitely not interested in >> any further employment opportunities with them. OTOH, I am totally >> happy to continue to be a customer of theirs. >> Further discussion of that sort of thing would not be appropriate >> here. If Josh is in the same boat with HE, I totally understand. >> For the Network Time Foundation (and related projects), I think >> we've been pretty happy as a customer of HE, but then we're just a >> small customer of theirs. >> -- Brad Knowles <brad@shub-internet.org <mailto:brad@shub-internet.org> <mailto:brad@shub-internet.org <mailto:brad@shub-internet.org>>> >> Please forgive any typos. I'm fighting a failing keyboard on my >> laptop, in addition to having a broken finger. > > > > > -- > John > PGP Public Key: 412934AC
We've adopted sending cakes a couple times in that same spirit. They've been met with equal success. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Peach" <john-nanog@peachfamily.net> To: "North American Network Operators' Group" <nanog@nanog.org> Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2018 6:51:39 AM Subject: Re: Whats going on at Cogent On 10/23/2018 08:47 PM, Ross Tajvar wrote:
Sorry all. I misread Owen's email. I'm not trying to air his private business to the list.
There is no secret - a quick search on the terms HE, Cogent and peering (and possibly cake) will give you the answer. Presumably Owen is not expounding because he used to work for HE.
On Tue, Oct 23, 2018, 8:20 PM Brad Knowles <brad@shub-internet.org <mailto:brad@shub-internet.org>> wrote:
On Oct 23, 2018, at 10:32 AM, Ross Tajvar <ross@tajvar.io <mailto:ross@tajvar.io>> wrote:
I am also interested in hearing about this. I think it's relevant to the current thread.
Speaking only for myself, there are companies where I have done short-term contracts, and where I am definitely not interested in any further employment opportunities with them. OTOH, I am totally happy to continue to be a customer of theirs.
Further discussion of that sort of thing would not be appropriate here. If Josh is in the same boat with HE, I totally understand.
For the Network Time Foundation (and related projects), I think we've been pretty happy as a customer of HE, but then we're just a small customer of theirs.
-- Brad Knowles <brad@shub-internet.org <mailto:brad@shub-internet.org>>
Please forgive any typos. I'm fighting a failing keyboard on my laptop, in addition to having a broken finger.
-- John PGP Public Key: 412934AC
HE is happy to peer with Cogent and would love to solve this issue. Thanks Walt From: NANOG <nanog-bounces@nanog.org<mailto:nanog-bounces@nanog.org>> on behalf of DaKnOb <daknob.mac@gmail.com<mailto:daknob.mac@gmail.com>> Date: Tuesday, October 16, 2018 at 7:04 AM To: Dovid Bender <dovid@telecurve.com<mailto:dovid@telecurve.com>> Cc: NANOG <nanog@nanog.org<mailto:nanog@nanog.org>> Subject: Re: Whats going on at Cogent When I call and mention it I’m told that it’s HE’s fault (despite the lovely cake), but when I also bring Google, then they tell me to get a different provider just for this traffic, or meet them at an IX and send my traffic from there. About the staff rotation I’ve seen it too, and I’ve also seen an increase in salespeople calling, for example when an AS is registered etc. in addition to the normal calls.. On 16 Oct 2018, at 16:54, Dovid Bender <dovid@telecurve.com<mailto:dovid@telecurve.com>> wrote: They call me every few months. the last time they emailed me I said I wasn't interested because of the HE issue. I have yet to get another email....... On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 9:29 AM, Ca By <cb.list6@gmail.com<mailto:cb.list6@gmail.com>> wrote: On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 5:16 AM David Hubbard <dhubbard@dino.hostasaurus.com<mailto:dhubbard@dino.hostasaurus.com>> wrote: Have had the same sales rep for several years now; unfortunately he has no ability to fix their IPv6 peering issue so we’re slowly removing circuits, but otherwise for a handful of 10gig DIA circuits it’s been stable. Yep, this. Whenever Cogent calls, this is what i tell them. Black-holing HE and Google ipv6 traffic, which is what they do if i use a default route from them, is dead on arrival. Shows they make bad decisions and dont put the customer first, or even create such an illusion. From: NANOG <nanog-bounces@nanog.org<mailto:nanog-bounces@nanog.org>> on behalf of Ryan Gelobter <ryan.g@atwgpc.net<mailto:ryan.g@atwgpc.net>> Date: Tuesday, October 16, 2018 at 6:04 AM To: NANOG <nanog@nanog.org<mailto:nanog@nanog.org>> Subject: Whats going on at Cogent Anyone else seen terrible support and high turnover of sales/account people at Cogent the last few months? Is there something going on over there internally? I'm sure some people will say Cogent has always been crap but in the past their account reps and support were pretty good. It seems to have gone downhill the last 12 months really bad. Regards, Ryan
I'm in the process of turning up a Cogent circuit in Cologix (Columbus) and hope to be finished in the next week or so. So far my experience has been great. The only thing I didn't like was the monthly sales call asking me to sign the contract, reminding me they are available. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 10:20 AM, Walt <walt@wollny.org> wrote:
HE is happy to peer with Cogent and would love to solve this issue.
Thanks
Walt
From: NANOG <nanog-bounces@nanog.org> on behalf of DaKnOb < daknob.mac@gmail.com> Date: Tuesday, October 16, 2018 at 7:04 AM To: Dovid Bender <dovid@telecurve.com> Cc: NANOG <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Re: Whats going on at Cogent
When I call and mention it I’m told that it’s HE’s fault (despite the lovely cake), but when I also bring Google, then they tell me to get a different provider just for this traffic, or meet them at an IX and send my traffic from there.
About the staff rotation I’ve seen it too, and I’ve also seen an increase in salespeople calling, for example when an AS is registered etc. in addition to the normal calls..
On 16 Oct 2018, at 16:54, Dovid Bender <dovid@telecurve.com> wrote:
They call me every few months. the last time they emailed me I said I wasn't interested because of the HE issue. I have yet to get another email.......
On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 9:29 AM, Ca By <cb.list6@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 5:16 AM David Hubbard < dhubbard@dino.hostasaurus.com> wrote:
Have had the same sales rep for several years now; unfortunately he has no ability to fix their IPv6 peering issue so we’re slowly removing circuits, but otherwise for a handful of 10gig DIA circuits it’s been stable.
Yep, this. Whenever Cogent calls, this is what i tell them. Black-holing HE and Google ipv6 traffic, which is what they do if i use a default route from them, is dead on arrival. Shows they make bad decisions and dont put the customer first, or even create such an illusion.
*From: *NANOG <nanog-bounces@nanog.org> on behalf of Ryan Gelobter <
ryan.g@atwgpc.net> *Date: *Tuesday, October 16, 2018 at 6:04 AM *To: *NANOG <nanog@nanog.org> *Subject: *Whats going on at Cogent
Anyone else seen terrible support and high turnover of sales/account people at Cogent the last few months? Is there something going on over there internally? I'm sure some people will say Cogent has always been crap but in the past their account reps and support were pretty good. It seems to have gone downhill the last 12 months really bad.
Regards,
Ryan
On Oct 16, 2018, at 10:20 AM, Walt <walt@wollny.org> wrote:
HE is happy to peer with Cogent and would love to solve this issue.
Thanks
As someone who really depends upon full internet access I can’t purchase from either supplier due to this. This mirrors what Ca By said, need a place where there’s full reachability. I would factor that into your purchases/network design. You can design around this, but it also may be too much effort. - Jared
Yeah google is the issue for us. We provide web services and a LOT of our customers have software that is making calls of various types to Google services, or even just email delivery to Google hosted email; if all but a Cogent transit link to a given data center were down, all of those customers’ sites would begin failing at some level because the servers generally try v6 if the application level wasn’t explicit. Cogent doesn’t seem to care since their CEO is in some pissing match with Google. They must be deriving enough revenue from last mile v4-only turn ups that they don’t really care about dual stack customers. That being said, can’t say I’ve been impressed with their MPLS / metroE offerings either. When doing the pricing/sizing routine on a project, I learned that they have an internal concept of src-dst flows on those types of circuits, and if they can’t see your labels, or otherwise hash the traffic, or it all truly is point to point, you may not get the full bandwidth, or may need to buy a capacity larger than what the flow will be. From: NANOG <nanog-bounces@nanog.org> on behalf of DaKnOb <daknob.mac@gmail.com> Date: Tuesday, October 16, 2018 at 10:06 AM To: Dovid Bender <dovid@telecurve.com> Cc: NANOG <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Re: Whats going on at Cogent When I call and mention it I’m told that it’s HE’s fault (despite the lovely cake), but when I also bring Google, then they tell me to get a different provider just for this traffic, or meet them at an IX and send my traffic from there. About the staff rotation I’ve seen it too, and I’ve also seen an increase in salespeople calling, for example when an AS is registered etc. in addition to the normal calls.. On 16 Oct 2018, at 16:54, Dovid Bender <dovid@telecurve.com<mailto:dovid@telecurve.com>> wrote: They call me every few months. the last time they emailed me I said I wasn't interested because of the HE issue. I have yet to get another email....... On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 9:29 AM, Ca By <cb.list6@gmail.com<mailto:cb.list6@gmail.com>> wrote: On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 5:16 AM David Hubbard <dhubbard@dino.hostasaurus.com<mailto:dhubbard@dino.hostasaurus.com>> wrote: Have had the same sales rep for several years now; unfortunately he has no ability to fix their IPv6 peering issue so we’re slowly removing circuits, but otherwise for a handful of 10gig DIA circuits it’s been stable. Yep, this. Whenever Cogent calls, this is what i tell them. Black-holing HE and Google ipv6 traffic, which is what they do if i use a default route from them, is dead on arrival. Shows they make bad decisions and dont put the customer first, or even create such an illusion. From: NANOG <nanog-bounces@nanog.org<mailto:nanog-bounces@nanog.org>> on behalf of Ryan Gelobter <ryan.g@atwgpc.net<mailto:ryan.g@atwgpc.net>> Date: Tuesday, October 16, 2018 at 6:04 AM To: NANOG <nanog@nanog.org<mailto:nanog@nanog.org>> Subject: Whats going on at Cogent Anyone else seen terrible support and high turnover of sales/account people at Cogent the last few months? Is there something going on over there internally? I'm sure some people will say Cogent has always been crap but in the past their account reps and support were pretty good. It seems to have gone downhill the last 12 months really bad. Regards, Ryan
That’s also true.. If you have a 10G connection between two DCs, and they can’t hash the traffic, you can only use 1/4th or 1/5th of the connection. Basically it is 10G but only 2G per flow. If you get transit at both places and then use a tunnel, which is a different service and may not satisfy all requirements, then you can use the full 10G, even with one flow. Otherwise you need to split it into 5 or more flows. I guess people really don’t like Cogent judging by the fact that one unrelated email caused all this to happen again.. :-)
On 16 Oct 2018, at 18:01, David Hubbard <dhubbard@dino.hostasaurus.com> wrote:
Yeah google is the issue for us. We provide web services and a LOT of our customers have software that is making calls of various types to Google services, or even just email delivery to Google hosted email; if all but a Cogent transit link to a given data center were down, all of those customers’ sites would begin failing at some level because the servers generally try v6 if the application level wasn’t explicit. Cogent doesn’t seem to care since their CEO is in some pissing match with Google. They must be deriving enough revenue from last mile v4-only turn ups that they don’t really care about dual stack customers.
That being said, can’t say I’ve been impressed with their MPLS / metroE offerings either. When doing the pricing/sizing routine on a project, I learned that they have an internal concept of src-dst flows on those types of circuits, and if they can’t see your labels, or otherwise hash the traffic, or it all truly is point to point, you may not get the full bandwidth, or may need to buy a capacity larger than what the flow will be.
From: NANOG <nanog-bounces@nanog.org> on behalf of DaKnOb <daknob.mac@gmail.com> Date: Tuesday, October 16, 2018 at 10:06 AM To: Dovid Bender <dovid@telecurve.com> Cc: NANOG <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Re: Whats going on at Cogent
When I call and mention it I’m told that it’s HE’s fault (despite the lovely cake), but when I also bring Google, then they tell me to get a different provider just for this traffic, or meet them at an IX and send my traffic from there.
About the staff rotation I’ve seen it too, and I’ve also seen an increase in salespeople calling, for example when an AS is registered etc. in addition to the normal calls..
On 16 Oct 2018, at 16:54, Dovid Bender <dovid@telecurve.com> wrote:
They call me every few months. the last time they emailed me I said I wasn't interested because of the HE issue. I have yet to get another email.......
On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 9:29 AM, Ca By <cb.list6@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 5:16 AM David Hubbard <dhubbard@dino.hostasaurus.com> wrote: Have had the same sales rep for several years now; unfortunately he has no ability to fix their IPv6 peering issue so we’re slowly removing circuits, but otherwise for a handful of 10gig DIA circuits it’s been stable.
Yep, this. Whenever Cogent calls, this is what i tell them. Black-holing HE and Google ipv6 traffic, which is what they do if i use a default route from them, is dead on arrival. Shows they make bad decisions and dont put the customer first, or even create such an illusion.
From: NANOG <nanog-bounces@nanog.org> on behalf of Ryan Gelobter <ryan.g@atwgpc.net> Date: Tuesday, October 16, 2018 at 6:04 AM To: NANOG <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Whats going on at Cogent
Anyone else seen terrible support and high turnover of sales/account people at Cogent the last few months? Is there something going on over there internally? I'm sure some people will say Cogent has always been crap but in the past their account reps and support were pretty good. It seems to have gone downhill the last 12 months really bad.
Regards, Ryan
at 11:34 AM, DaKnOb <daknob.mac@gmail.com> wrote:
I guess people really don’t like Cogent judging by the fact that one unrelated email caused all this to happen again.. :-)
Cogent have more pain points on average but they’re still the best option for getting to other Cogent customers. It’s not really hard to design around their shortcomings. I’d rather have 30 small links and be well-connected than two large ones and be SOL because someone refuses to peer. I can’t speak to their MPLS service, because cogent’s the last company I’d ever trust with my backbone.
Agreed. A couple IXes, Cogent, HE, and a couple others. Add more IXes and others as needed. Eyeballs should be fine with the above. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest-IX http://www.midwest-ix.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel Corbe" <dcorbe@hammerfiber.com> To: "DaKnOb" <daknob.mac@gmail.com> Cc: "NANOG" <nanog@nanog.org> Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2018 10:44:10 AM Subject: Re: Whats going on at Cogent at 11:34 AM, DaKnOb <daknob.mac@gmail.com> wrote:
I guess people really don’t like Cogent judging by the fact that one unrelated email caused all this to happen again.. :-)
Cogent have more pain points on average but they’re still the best option for getting to other Cogent customers. It’s not really hard to design around their shortcomings. I’d rather have 30 small links and be well-connected than two large ones and be SOL because someone refuses to peer. I can’t speak to their MPLS service, because cogent’s the last company I’d ever trust with my backbone.
As an eyeball network operator, Cogent has served me well for several years, I can say that they are probably the easiest and most relaxed and most accessible to work with from my experience compared to my other providers, I’m comparing to 3 other well-known providers It seems like when I call Cogent the person that answers the phone is the person that solves my problem, other providers I have to go through multiple layers of people to get to someone who knows how to do what I need them to do Cogent has typically been the cheapest also However Cogent seems to be the dirtiest in regards to DDOS... however Telia might be catching up... in times past when I receive volumetric DDOS, Cogent typically ranks with the highest on my providers ... AT&T and spectrum seem to be a bit cleaner I also have the long-standing v6 google issue So yeah, pros and cons, but that’s true about most things, pros and cons Aaron
On Oct 16, 2018, at 12:08 PM, Mike Hammett <nanog@ics-il.net> wrote:
Agreed. A couple IXes, Cogent, HE, and a couple others. Add more IXes and others as needed. Eyeballs should be fine with the above.
----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com
Midwest-IX http://www.midwest-ix.com
From: "Daniel Corbe" <dcorbe@hammerfiber.com> To: "DaKnOb" <daknob.mac@gmail.com> Cc: "NANOG" <nanog@nanog.org> Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2018 10:44:10 AM Subject: Re: Whats going on at Cogent
at 11:34 AM, DaKnOb <daknob.mac@gmail.com> wrote:
I guess people really don’t like Cogent judging by the fact that one unrelated email caused all this to happen again.. :-)
Cogent have more pain points on average but they’re still the best option for getting to other Cogent customers. It’s not really hard to design around their shortcomings. I’d rather have 30 small links and be well-connected than two large ones and be SOL because someone refuses to peer.
I can’t speak to their MPLS service, because cogent’s the last company I’d ever trust with my backbone.
* aaron1@gvtc.com (Aaron1) [Wed 17 Oct 2018, 00:17 CEST]:
However Cogent seems to be the dirtiest in regards to DDOS... however Telia might be catching up... in times past when I receive volumetric DDOS, Cogent typically ranks with the highest on my providers ... AT&T and spectrum seem to be a bit cleaner
So you're saying, Cogent and Telia have the best backbones and interconnects and thus deliver the most of your traffic to you, even at times of peak utilization? -- Niels.
Or he's saying that cogent has the biggest network of compromised users. Usually ipv4 only eyeball networks tend to have the most bots on net. On Tue, 16 Oct 2018 at 19:22, Niels Bakker <niels=nanog@bakker.net> wrote:
* aaron1@gvtc.com (Aaron1) [Wed 17 Oct 2018, 00:17 CEST]:
However Cogent seems to be the dirtiest in regards to DDOS... however Telia might be catching up... in times past when I receive volumetric DDOS, Cogent typically ranks with the highest on my providers ... AT&T and spectrum seem to be a bit cleaner
So you're saying, Cogent and Telia have the best backbones and interconnects and thus deliver the most of your traffic to you, even at times of peak utilization?
-- Niels.
I guess those bots have to sit somewhere. I don’t know that they would be in routers as much as they would be in Microsoft Windows… so if that’s what you meant, then I see what you mean Michael Niels, I like my cogent and telia internet connections… I just recall seeing more ddos on cogent then I did on my previous att, and current spectrum… telia is showing a good bit of ddos also Let’s put it this way, I can thank Cogent and Telia for helping my get better in my ddos mitigation skills J … there’s a bright side to everything huh Aaron From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces@nanog.org] On Behalf Of Michael Crapse Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2018 8:37 PM To: NANOG list Subject: Re: Whats going on at Cogent Or he's saying that cogent has the biggest network of compromised users. Usually ipv4 only eyeball networks tend to have the most bots on net. On Tue, 16 Oct 2018 at 19:22, Niels Bakker <niels=nanog@bakker.net> wrote: * aaron1@gvtc.com (Aaron1) [Wed 17 Oct 2018, 00:17 CEST]:
However Cogent seems to be the dirtiest in regards to DDOS... however Telia might be catching up... in times past when I receive volumetric DDOS, Cogent typically ranks with the highest on my providers ... AT&T and spectrum seem to be a bit cleaner
So you're saying, Cogent and Telia have the best backbones and interconnects and thus deliver the most of your traffic to you, even at times of peak utilization? -- Niels.
Cogent has done well to remediate the compromised MikroTik routers on their network. 3,000 IPv4 hosts were found on Aug. 25 ( https://twitter.com/bad_packets/status/1033256704941514752) and today, only a hundred: https://censys.io/ipv4?q=%28%28%28%22CoinHive.Anonymous%22%29+AND+%28MikroTik%29%29+AND+location.country_code%3A+US%29+AND+autonomous_system.description.raw%3A+%22COGENT-174+-+Cogent+Communications%22& __ *Troy Mursch* On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 12:05 PM Aaron Gould <aaron1@gvtc.com> wrote:
I guess those bots have to sit somewhere. I don’t know that they would be in routers as much as they would be in Microsoft Windows… so if that’s what you meant, then I see what you mean Michael
Niels, I like my cogent and telia internet connections… I just recall seeing more ddos on cogent then I did on my previous att, and current spectrum… telia is showing a good bit of ddos also
Let’s put it this way, I can thank Cogent and Telia for helping my get better in my ddos mitigation skills J … there’s a bright side to everything huh
Aaron
*From:* NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces@nanog.org] *On Behalf Of *Michael Crapse *Sent:* Tuesday, October 16, 2018 8:37 PM *To:* NANOG list *Subject:* Re: Whats going on at Cogent
Or he's saying that cogent has the biggest network of compromised users. Usually ipv4 only eyeball networks tend to have the most bots on net.
On Tue, 16 Oct 2018 at 19:22, Niels Bakker <niels=nanog@bakker.net> wrote:
* aaron1@gvtc.com (Aaron1) [Wed 17 Oct 2018, 00:17 CEST]:
However Cogent seems to be the dirtiest in regards to DDOS... however Telia might be catching up... in times past when I receive volumetric DDOS, Cogent typically ranks with the highest on my providers ... AT&T and spectrum seem to be a bit cleaner
So you're saying, Cogent and Telia have the best backbones and interconnects and thus deliver the most of your traffic to you, even at times of peak utilization?
-- Niels.
Speaking of Cogent service (and I know you guys are watching), I'd love to get someone's help off-list turning up a p2p that has been moved to billing despite being told loud and clear it doesn't work. I half-expected it to not work when I found out there was a type 2 provider involved, but I definitely did not expect to be billed for it... -Matt On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 12:09 PM Mike Hammett <nanog@ics-il.net> wrote:
Agreed. A couple IXes, Cogent, HE, and a couple others. Add more IXes and others as needed. Eyeballs should be fine with the above.
----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com
Midwest-IX http://www.midwest-ix.com
________________________________ From: "Daniel Corbe" <dcorbe@hammerfiber.com> To: "DaKnOb" <daknob.mac@gmail.com> Cc: "NANOG" <nanog@nanog.org> Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2018 10:44:10 AM Subject: Re: Whats going on at Cogent
at 11:34 AM, DaKnOb <daknob.mac@gmail.com> wrote:
I guess people really don’t like Cogent judging by the fact that one unrelated email caused all this to happen again.. :-)
Cogent have more pain points on average but they’re still the best option for getting to other Cogent customers. It’s not really hard to design around their shortcomings. I’d rather have 30 small links and be well-connected than two large ones and be SOL because someone refuses to peer.
I can’t speak to their MPLS service, because cogent’s the last company I’d ever trust with my backbone.
Oh how funny I’m working on a billing issue with them for a circuit they turned up but didn’t connect to the MMR for 2 months... -Ben
On Oct 16, 2018, at 3:20 PM, Matt Erculiani <merculiani@gmail.com> wrote:
Speaking of Cogent service (and I know you guys are watching), I'd love to get someone's help off-list turning up a p2p that has been moved to billing despite being told loud and clear it doesn't work. I half-expected it to not work when I found out there was a type 2 provider involved, but I definitely did not expect to be billed for it...
-Matt
On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 12:09 PM Mike Hammett <nanog@ics-il.net> wrote:
Agreed. A couple IXes, Cogent, HE, and a couple others. Add more IXes and others as needed. Eyeballs should be fine with the above.
----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com
Midwest-IX http://www.midwest-ix.com
________________________________ From: "Daniel Corbe" <dcorbe@hammerfiber.com> To: "DaKnOb" <daknob.mac@gmail.com> Cc: "NANOG" <nanog@nanog.org> Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2018 10:44:10 AM Subject: Re: Whats going on at Cogent
at 11:34 AM, DaKnOb <daknob.mac@gmail.com> wrote:
I guess people really don’t like Cogent judging by the fact that one unrelated email caused all this to happen again.. :-)
Cogent have more pain points on average but they’re still the best option for getting to other Cogent customers. It’s not really hard to design around their shortcomings. I’d rather have 30 small links and be well-connected than two large ones and be SOL because someone refuses to peer.
I can’t speak to their MPLS service, because cogent’s the last company I’d ever trust with my backbone.
Oh that's disturbing . We just signed up a few months ago for a circuit at an MMR and are still waiting for delivery. Matt. On 17/10/18 10:23 am, Ben Cannon wrote:
Oh how funny I’m working on a billing issue with them for a circuit they turned up but didn’t connect to the MMR for 2 months...
-Ben
On Oct 16, 2018, at 3:20 PM, Matt Erculiani <merculiani@gmail.com> wrote:
Speaking of Cogent service (and I know you guys are watching), I'd love to get someone's help off-list turning up a p2p that has been moved to billing despite being told loud and clear it doesn't work. I half-expected it to not work when I found out there was a type 2 provider involved, but I definitely did not expect to be billed for it...
-Matt
On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 12:09 PM Mike Hammett <nanog@ics-il.net> wrote:
Agreed. A couple IXes, Cogent, HE, and a couple others. Add more IXes and others as needed. Eyeballs should be fine with the above.
----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com
Midwest-IX http://www.midwest-ix.com
________________________________ From: "Daniel Corbe" <dcorbe@hammerfiber.com> To: "DaKnOb" <daknob.mac@gmail.com> Cc: "NANOG" <nanog@nanog.org> Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2018 10:44:10 AM Subject: Re: Whats going on at Cogent
at 11:34 AM, DaKnOb <daknob.mac@gmail.com> wrote:
I guess people really don’t like Cogent judging by the fact that one unrelated email caused all this to happen again.. :-) Cogent have more pain points on average but they’re still the best option for getting to other Cogent customers. It’s not really hard to design around their shortcomings. I’d rather have 30 small links and be well-connected than two large ones and be SOL because someone refuses to peer.
I can’t speak to their MPLS service, because cogent’s the last company I’d ever trust with my backbone.
-- /* Matt Perkins Direct 1300 137 379 Spectrum Networks Ptd. Ltd. Office 1300 133 299 matt@spectrum.com.au Level 6, 350 George Street Sydney 2000 Spectrum Networks is a member of the Communications Alliance & TIO */
But their support daily. They blamed the DC, our suite, the MMR, all in that order. Don’t let them, it was Mia-parched at their core router... -Ben
On Oct 16, 2018, at 4:51 PM, Matt Perkins <matt@spectrum.com.au> wrote:
Oh that's disturbing . We just signed up a few months ago for a circuit at an MMR and are still waiting for delivery.
Matt.
On 17/10/18 10:23 am, Ben Cannon wrote: Oh how funny I’m working on a billing issue with them for a circuit they turned up but didn’t connect to the MMR for 2 months...
-Ben
On Oct 16, 2018, at 3:20 PM, Matt Erculiani <merculiani@gmail.com> wrote:
Speaking of Cogent service (and I know you guys are watching), I'd love to get someone's help off-list turning up a p2p that has been moved to billing despite being told loud and clear it doesn't work. I half-expected it to not work when I found out there was a type 2 provider involved, but I definitely did not expect to be billed for it...
-Matt
On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 12:09 PM Mike Hammett <nanog@ics-il.net> wrote:
Agreed. A couple IXes, Cogent, HE, and a couple others. Add more IXes and others as needed. Eyeballs should be fine with the above.
----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com
Midwest-IX http://www.midwest-ix.com
________________________________ From: "Daniel Corbe" <dcorbe@hammerfiber.com> To: "DaKnOb" <daknob.mac@gmail.com> Cc: "NANOG" <nanog@nanog.org> Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2018 10:44:10 AM Subject: Re: Whats going on at Cogent
at 11:34 AM, DaKnOb <daknob.mac@gmail.com> wrote:
I guess people really don’t like Cogent judging by the fact that one unrelated email caused all this to happen again.. :-) Cogent have more pain points on average but they’re still the best option for getting to other Cogent customers. It’s not really hard to design around their shortcomings. I’d rather have 30 small links and be well-connected than two large ones and be SOL because someone refuses to peer.
I can’t speak to their MPLS service, because cogent’s the last company I’d ever trust with my backbone.
-- /* Matt Perkins Direct 1300 137 379 Spectrum Networks Ptd. Ltd. Office 1300 133 299 matt@spectrum.com.au Level 6, 350 George Street Sydney 2000 Spectrum Networks is a member of the Communications Alliance & TIO */
That's *ALWAYS* been my experience with Cogent. *cue e-mail from Cogent rep* ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest-IX http://www.midwest-ix.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ryan Gelobter" <ryan.g@atwgpc.net> To: "NANOG" <nanog@nanog.org> Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2018 5:02:59 AM Subject: Whats going on at Cogent Anyone else seen terrible support and high turnover of sales/account people at Cogent the last few months? Is there something going on over there internally? I'm sure some people will say Cogent has always been crap but in the past their account reps and support were pretty good. It seems to have gone downhill the last 12 months really bad. Regards, Ryan
participants (31)
-
Aaron Gould -
Aaron1
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Baldur Norddahl -
Ben Cannon -
Brad Knowles -
Bryan Holloway -
Ca By -
DaKnOb -
Daniel Corbe -
Darin Steffl -
David Hubbard -
Dovid Bender -
Eric Dugas -
Jared Mauch -
John Hurley -
John Peach -
Josh Luthman -
Kenny Taylor -
Matt Erculiani -
Matt Perkins -
Matthew Petach -
Michael Crapse -
Mike Hammett -
Niels Bakker -
Owen DeLong -
Ross Tajvar -
Ryan Gelobter -
Tom Beecher -
Troy Mursch -
valdis.kletnieks＠vt.edu -
Walt