RIPE NCC Executive Board election
Many of you here may be dues-paying members of both ARIN and RIPE. Those of you who are may wish to be aware of the fact that there will be an election held on (I believe) May 14th, just a day or two from now, for three open RIPE NCC Executive Board seats. I have it on good authority that one of the candidates running for the open RIPE NCC board seats in this election has hired legal counsel in South Africa, and that said legal counsel has then proceeded to threaten various officials of the City of Cape Town, South Africa with possible legal action if they do not relinquish to him their rights in and title to the 165.25.0.0/16 block, a block that all historical records, including even ARIN "WhoWas" historical records show, clearly and unambiguously, has been legally registered to the City of Cape Town for over twenty years. (I am assured that at no time did the City of Cape Town ever sell, trade, or barter away their rights to this valuable IPv4 block, and that they are defending themselves, as best as they can, against this attempt to extort them out of their rightful prooperty.) Where I come from, this kind of thing is called barratry, but you be the judge. In any case, prior to the RIPE election, I wanted to let you all know these facts about the candidate in question, as well as a number of additional startling facts relating to the people who nominated this candidate for a RIPE NCC Executive board seat, as documented by my friend, South African journalist Jan Vermeulen: https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/350973-man-connected-to-african-ip-a... I could go into more detail about many of the nominators mentioned in the above article, but I don't want to make this email too long, so I'll await some explict request for that additional info. For now it should suffice to make at least some of the basic facts more widely available, a task which is accomplished just by sharing the above link, IMHO. Regards, rfg P.S. I have been specifically and explicitly enjoined and constrained from posting here anything at all that might smack of being either partisan or of an even vaguely "political" nature, and thus, I will refrain from doing so. I would be remiss hoever if I did not at least note in passing that history records that in times such as these, when people of good character and good intent are, as they rightly should be, focused on the health and safety of themselves, their loved ones, and their professional collegues, and when the gaze of the world is elsewhere, persons of less than honorable intent reach for power and, with unfortunate regularity, obtain it. I cannot and do not ask that those of you who have been saddled with personal or local crises during this sad time turn away from those responsibilities to give attention to matters of Internet governance, however urgent those may appear at the moment. For all of us, our first- order duty lies nearby, with family, friends, and collegues. But for those of you who still have a few cycles to spare, I do ask that you consider carefully the newfound and critical importance of this tool, this Internet, in the lives of so many millions, all around the world, and the self-evident risks of its governance being handed over, by default or otherwise, to persons with an interest only in what is best for them personally, to the exclusion of all else. P.P.S. I would be posting this info and the above link also to the very relevant RIPE members-discuss mailing list, but as I am not a due-paying member of RIPE, I have no ability to do so. Separately, due in no small part to the candidate's own recent and manifest on-list transgressions on that very list, that list has recently been switched to a heavy-handed moderation, under which, it seems, even discussion of the pros and cons of candidates in the upcoming RIPE NCC Executive Board election are now categorized as "too controversial" and thus, themselves, are now entirely off-limits. I cannot help but be reminded of a catch-phrase that I saw somewhere, not too long ago: "Democracy dies in darkness." -- anon
Hi Ronald, The election starts today, but in order to be able to vote, you need to pre-register with your organizations before 16:00 Amsterdam time *today*. Here is the info and registration link: https://www.ripe.net/participate/meetings/gm/meetings/may-2020/voting-at-the... and the list of candidates and links to their bios: https://www.ripe.net/participate/meetings/gm/meetings/may-2020/confirmed-can... Regards, Jordi @jordipalet El 13/5/20 11:52, "NANOG en nombre de Ronald F. Guilmette" <nanog-bounces@nanog.org en nombre de rfg@tristatelogic.com> escribió: Many of you here may be dues-paying members of both ARIN and RIPE. Those of you who are may wish to be aware of the fact that there will be an election held on (I believe) May 14th, just a day or two from now, for three open RIPE NCC Executive Board seats. I have it on good authority that one of the candidates running for the open RIPE NCC board seats in this election has hired legal counsel in South Africa, and that said legal counsel has then proceeded to threaten various officials of the City of Cape Town, South Africa with possible legal action if they do not relinquish to him their rights in and title to the 165.25.0.0/16 block, a block that all historical records, including even ARIN "WhoWas" historical records show, clearly and unambiguously, has been legally registered to the City of Cape Town for over twenty years. (I am assured that at no time did the City of Cape Town ever sell, trade, or barter away their rights to this valuable IPv4 block, and that they are defending themselves, as best as they can, against this attempt to extort them out of their rightful prooperty.) Where I come from, this kind of thing is called barratry, but you be the judge. In any case, prior to the RIPE election, I wanted to let you all know these facts about the candidate in question, as well as a number of additional startling facts relating to the people who nominated this candidate for a RIPE NCC Executive board seat, as documented by my friend, South African journalist Jan Vermeulen: https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/350973-man-connected-to-african-ip-a... I could go into more detail about many of the nominators mentioned in the above article, but I don't want to make this email too long, so I'll await some explict request for that additional info. For now it should suffice to make at least some of the basic facts more widely available, a task which is accomplished just by sharing the above link, IMHO. Regards, rfg P.S. I have been specifically and explicitly enjoined and constrained from posting here anything at all that might smack of being either partisan or of an even vaguely "political" nature, and thus, I will refrain from doing so. I would be remiss hoever if I did not at least note in passing that history records that in times such as these, when people of good character and good intent are, as they rightly should be, focused on the health and safety of themselves, their loved ones, and their professional collegues, and when the gaze of the world is elsewhere, persons of less than honorable intent reach for power and, with unfortunate regularity, obtain it. I cannot and do not ask that those of you who have been saddled with personal or local crises during this sad time turn away from those responsibilities to give attention to matters of Internet governance, however urgent those may appear at the moment. For all of us, our first- order duty lies nearby, with family, friends, and collegues. But for those of you who still have a few cycles to spare, I do ask that you consider carefully the newfound and critical importance of this tool, this Internet, in the lives of so many millions, all around the world, and the self-evident risks of its governance being handed over, by default or otherwise, to persons with an interest only in what is best for them personally, to the exclusion of all else. P.P.S. I would be posting this info and the above link also to the very relevant RIPE members-discuss mailing list, but as I am not a due-paying member of RIPE, I have no ability to do so. Separately, due in no small part to the candidate's own recent and manifest on-list transgressions on that very list, that list has recently been switched to a heavy-handed moderation, under which, it seems, even discussion of the pros and cons of candidates in the upcoming RIPE NCC Executive Board election are now categorized as "too controversial" and thus, themselves, are now entirely off-limits. I cannot help but be reminded of a catch-phrase that I saw somewhere, not too long ago: "Democracy dies in darkness." -- anon ********************************************** IPv4 is over Are you ready for the new Internet ? http://www.theipv6company.com The IPv6 Company This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it.
Hello Everyone, My apology for not providing an official response to the first "The Ronald Show" that took place here many months ago, I was out of hospital after full anesthesia and it took me months to get back to myself. What was done towards me and what being done to me by Ronald is an intentional personal attack against me and I will explain. I didn't agree to provide private business documents to the illegal anonymous organization "The Spamhaus Project" that they tried to extort from me - then I found out who are the real people behind the illegal anonymous organization "The Spamhaus Project" - and then they started to attack me (including here on Nanog, with false information, when I was out of hospital and wasn't in the condition to respond to them). "The Spamhaus Project" is an illegal anonymous organization according to their own words in their own following presentation: https://www.scribd.com/document/445894312/Spamhaus-Illegal-Private-Data-Viol... They wrote in it that they receive on a regular basis - massive amount of illegaly-obtained privacy data from their contacts in many internet companies and internet organizations - and then they share it in illegal way (without any warrant) with Law Enforcement Agencies - this is the reason that Law Enforcement Agencies are doing nothing regarding the illegal anonymous organization "The Spamhaus Project". Ronald Guilmette is the front person of the illegal anonymous organization "The Spamhaus Project". ---- and that said legal counsel has then proceeded to threaten various officials of the City of Cape Town, South Africa with possible legal action if they do not relinquish to him their rights in and title to the 165.25.0.0/16 block ---- This is a complete lie, in order to shame CoCT I will not share their internal correspondences. Anyone interested to know more information can email me directly. ---- "I am assured that at no time did the City of Cape Town ever sell, trade, or barter away their rights to this valuable IPv4 block" ---- Ronald is "assured" exactly as he is "assured" that all Dutch people are criminals and all Colombian network oeprators are criminals and all Chicago citizens are criminals according to his statements in the following links: https://imgur.com/AcmgwEX https://imgur.com/WUZvdNJ https://imgur.com/a/Rzrbxkz Ronald was called an antisemitic and a racist person here on Nanog in the following two links, by people which are not related to me: https://imgur.com/AQCmZlk https://imgur.com/a/Rzrbxkz In the first "The Ronald Show" many months ago - Ronald called me in two antisemitic names that are being used to relate to Jews in Shakespeare literature (just like Ronald is relating to Shakespeare in https://imgur.com/AcmgwEX ) - as part of his defamation campaign towards me - none of you raised a voice and not only that but some Nanog subscribers enjoyed his racism and antisemitism (without a single proof against me) as was written here by them (with a popcorn). The "source" in "The Spamhaus Project" that supported and pumped Ronald Imagination is the criminal of the anonymous twitter account: https://twitter.com/underthebreach , that person according to his own words in his own criminal anonymous twitter account - is a master of cyber influence operations (meaning to influence people without a single proof) - that person is also an employee of the Israeli-based company GeoEdge and they are a direct competitor of a company that used the netblocks that Ronald attacked - not only that but Ronald also attacked another Israeli-based company called Divineworks (here in Nanog) and they are also a direct competitor of the Israeli-based company GeoEdge. What was done here is a cyber influence operation without a single proof because of a business competition. That criminal https://twitter.com/underthebreach which is a member of "The Spamhaus Project" and pumped Ronald Imagination - is not the only person which is abusing the power of "The Spamhaus Project" for commericial goals, that are many many more people and companies behind the illegal anonymous organization "The Spamhaus Project" which are making profit from it, for example: - Vincent Schonau from Open-Xchange (AKA "Vincenet Hanna" of "The Spamhaus Project") that "The Spamhaus Project" is attacking the competitors of Open-Xchange. - Laura Atkins from WordToTheWise which is selling a Spamhaus listing removal service (https://wordtothewise.com) Real identities behind "The Spamhaus Project": "Mike Anderson" - Michael O'Reirdan (Chairman Emeritus of W3AAWG) and Professor Ross Anderson from Cambridge university (both known as "Mike Anderson" of "The Spamhaus Project") "Rob Shultz" - Rob McEwen (https://www.invaluement.com/) "Thomas Morrison" - Daniel R. Thomas (https://personal.cis.strath.ac.uk/d.thomas/) "Pete Dawes" - Ildiko Pete (https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~ip358/) "Vincent Hanna" - Vincent Schonau of Open-Xchange (https://www.linkedin.com/in/vincentschonau/) "Milly Fawcett" - Kelly Molloy of FarSight Security (https://www.linkedin.com/in/kelly-molloy-b886442/) Among others. Companies behind the illegal anonymous organization "The Spamhaus Project": ThreatSTOP FarSight Security Fastly Dyn Cymru Abusix Among others. Regarding the article that Ronald shared, in it there is clearly written: "It must be noted that Cohen is not being accused of any illegal activity in this report." But it doesn't change the fact that the article was clearly written only for Ronald to be able to post it and to proceed with the illegal "cyber influence operation" to attack me without a single proof. The article was written by the instruction of the "The Spamhaus Project" mob and then Ronald made this post according to the instruction from "The Spamhaus Project" mob. A coordinated illegal "cyber influence operation" without a single proof. Many subscribers of the Nanog list are members of the illegal anonymous organization "The Spamhaus Project" - Ronald Guilmette is just their front clown - expect many of them to jump now and to defame me here without a single proof (because this is how the illegal anonynous organization "The Spamhaus Project" works) - and you can ask them a simple single question - "show us a single proof" - and - "if you cannot show us a single proof then please stop spamming the mailing list". Ronald at the end of his post keep spreading lies and writing: "less than honorable intent reach for power" "to persons with an interest only in what is best for them personally, to the exclusion of all else" "Democracy dies in darkness." When in reality I invented three new pantets for the best of the whole Internet community and I will work to implement them if I will be elected: IPv4+ that will mitigate the "IPv4 Exhaustion" problem and will add more 4,294,967,296 IPv4 addresses: (can be implemented with software updates and not all internet hosts in the world will have to be updated - home routers and home modems which are the vast majority of routing equipment in the world - will not need to be updated and will support more 4,294,967,296 IPv4 addresses with IPv4+ ) https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/members-discuss/2020-April/003676.ht... Completely mitigating the global email spam problem in a clean and automatic way: (and also mitigating the illegal anonymous organization "The Spamhaus Project") https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/members-discuss/2020-April/003778.ht... Completely mitigating spoofed ip amplification DDoS attacks and spoofed ip traffic with is a source for criminality: https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/members-discuss/2020-April/003902.ht... They ("The Spamhaus Project" mob) wants to keep controlling RIPE and any other internet organizations - I want to liberate RIPE - I want to make sure that that illegal anonymous organization that violates any thing which is sacred in the Interent (freedom, free speech and connectivity) - will have no footprint in RIPE. My full agenda can be read here: https://www.ripe.net/participate/meetings/gm/meetings/may-2020/candidate-bio... Ronald is afraid from me being elected because he knows that if I will be elected I will put an end to the illgal anonymous organization "The Spamhaus Project" which is intimidating and harassing many organizations and many businesses worldwide. Kind Regards, Elad ________________________________ From: NANOG <nanog-bounces@nanog.org> on behalf of Ronald F. Guilmette <rfg@tristatelogic.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 12:50 PM To: nanog@nanog.org <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: RIPE NCC Executive Board election Many of you here may be dues-paying members of both ARIN and RIPE. Those of you who are may wish to be aware of the fact that there will be an election held on (I believe) May 14th, just a day or two from now, for three open RIPE NCC Executive Board seats. I have it on good authority that one of the candidates running for the open RIPE NCC board seats in this election has hired legal counsel in South Africa, and that said legal counsel has then proceeded to threaten various officials of the City of Cape Town, South Africa with possible legal action if they do not relinquish to him their rights in and title to the 165.25.0.0/16 block, a block that all historical records, including even ARIN "WhoWas" historical records show, clearly and unambiguously, has been legally registered to the City of Cape Town for over twenty years. (I am assured that at no time did the City of Cape Town ever sell, trade, or barter away their rights to this valuable IPv4 block, and that they are defending themselves, as best as they can, against this attempt to extort them out of their rightful prooperty.) Where I come from, this kind of thing is called barratry, but you be the judge. In any case, prior to the RIPE election, I wanted to let you all know these facts about the candidate in question, as well as a number of additional startling facts relating to the people who nominated this candidate for a RIPE NCC Executive board seat, as documented by my friend, South African journalist Jan Vermeulen: https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/350973-man-connected-to-african-ip-a... I could go into more detail about many of the nominators mentioned in the above article, but I don't want to make this email too long, so I'll await some explict request for that additional info. For now it should suffice to make at least some of the basic facts more widely available, a task which is accomplished just by sharing the above link, IMHO. Regards, rfg P.S. I have been specifically and explicitly enjoined and constrained from posting here anything at all that might smack of being either partisan or of an even vaguely "political" nature, and thus, I will refrain from doing so. I would be remiss hoever if I did not at least note in passing that history records that in times such as these, when people of good character and good intent are, as they rightly should be, focused on the health and safety of themselves, their loved ones, and their professional collegues, and when the gaze of the world is elsewhere, persons of less than honorable intent reach for power and, with unfortunate regularity, obtain it. I cannot and do not ask that those of you who have been saddled with personal or local crises during this sad time turn away from those responsibilities to give attention to matters of Internet governance, however urgent those may appear at the moment. For all of us, our first- order duty lies nearby, with family, friends, and collegues. But for those of you who still have a few cycles to spare, I do ask that you consider carefully the newfound and critical importance of this tool, this Internet, in the lives of so many millions, all around the world, and the self-evident risks of its governance being handed over, by default or otherwise, to persons with an interest only in what is best for them personally, to the exclusion of all else. P.P.S. I would be posting this info and the above link also to the very relevant RIPE members-discuss mailing list, but as I am not a due-paying member of RIPE, I have no ability to do so. Separately, due in no small part to the candidate's own recent and manifest on-list transgressions on that very list, that list has recently been switched to a heavy-handed moderation, under which, it seems, even discussion of the pros and cons of candidates in the upcoming RIPE NCC Executive Board election are now categorized as "too controversial" and thus, themselves, are now entirely off-limits. I cannot help but be reminded of a catch-phrase that I saw somewhere, not too long ago: "Democracy dies in darkness." -- anon
On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 01:46:01PM +0000, Elad Cohen wrote:
Hello Everyone,
My apology for not providing an official response to the first "The Ronald Show" that took place here many months ago, I was out of hospital after full anesthesia and it took me months to get back to myself.
Ah, yeah.
I cannot help but be reminded of a catch-phrase that I saw somewhere, not too long ago:
"Democracy dies in darkness." -- anon
That's the Washington Post's tagline, not "anon". Whatever happened to the good old days of Jim Fleming? sigh. ... JG -- Joe Greco - sol.net Network Services - Milwaukee, WI - http://www.sol.net "The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'"-Asimov
* elad@netstyle.io (Elad Cohen) [Wed 13 May 2020, 15:46 CEST]:
Ronald was called an antisemitic and a racist person here on Nanog in the following two links, by people which are not related to me: https://imgur.com/AQCmZlk
Since you're quoting me here, let me reiterate that I was out of line in that posting, as I posted to the mailing list at the time as well. -- Niels.
LOL the IPv4+ thing was a pretty entertaining read. You clearly don’t have even a basic understanding of the v4 packet structure, or that the octet display concept is simply for human benefit. IPv6 can be implemented with ‘software updates’ too… From: NANOG <nanog-bounces@nanog.org> on behalf of Elad Cohen <elad@netstyle.io> Date: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 at 9:47 AM To: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg@tristatelogic.com>, "nanog@nanog.org" <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election Hello Everyone, My apology for not providing an official response to the first "The Ronald Show" that took place here many months ago, I was out of hospital after full anesthesia and it took me months to get back to myself. What was done towards me and what being done to me by Ronald is an intentional personal attack against me and I will explain. I didn't agree to provide private business documents to the illegal anonymous organization "The Spamhaus Project" that they tried to extort from me - then I found out who are the real people behind the illegal anonymous organization "The Spamhaus Project" - and then they started to attack me (including here on Nanog, with false information, when I was out of hospital and wasn't in the condition to respond to them). "The Spamhaus Project" is an illegal anonymous organization according to their own words in their own following presentation: https://www.scribd.com/document/445894312/Spamhaus-Illegal-Private-Data-Viol... They wrote in it that they receive on a regular basis - massive amount of illegaly-obtained privacy data from their contacts in many internet companies and internet organizations - and then they share it in illegal way (without any warrant) with Law Enforcement Agencies - this is the reason that Law Enforcement Agencies are doing nothing regarding the illegal anonymous organization "The Spamhaus Project". Ronald Guilmette is the front person of the illegal anonymous organization "The Spamhaus Project". ---- and that said legal counsel has then proceeded to threaten various officials of the City of Cape Town, South Africa with possible legal action if they do not relinquish to him their rights in and title to the 165.25.0.0/16 block ---- This is a complete lie, in order to shame CoCT I will not share their internal correspondences. Anyone interested to know more information can email me directly. ---- "I am assured that at no time did the City of Cape Town ever sell, trade, or barter away their rights to this valuable IPv4 block" ---- Ronald is "assured" exactly as he is "assured" that all Dutch people are criminals and all Colombian network oeprators are criminals and all Chicago citizens are criminals according to his statements in the following links: https://imgur.com/AcmgwEX https://imgur.com/WUZvdNJ https://imgur.com/a/Rzrbxkz Ronald was called an antisemitic and a racist person here on Nanog in the following two links, by people which are not related to me: https://imgur.com/AQCmZlk https://imgur.com/a/Rzrbxkz In the first "The Ronald Show" many months ago - Ronald called me in two antisemitic names that are being used to relate to Jews in Shakespeare literature (just like Ronald is relating to Shakespeare in https://imgur.com/AcmgwEX ) - as part of his defamation campaign towards me - none of you raised a voice and not only that but some Nanog subscribers enjoyed his racism and antisemitism (without a single proof against me) as was written here by them (with a popcorn). The "source" in "The Spamhaus Project" that supported and pumped Ronald Imagination is the criminal of the anonymous twitter account: https://twitter.com/underthebreach , that person according to his own words in his own criminal anonymous twitter account - is a master of cyber influence operations (meaning to influence people without a single proof) - that person is also an employee of the Israeli-based company GeoEdge and they are a direct competitor of a company that used the netblocks that Ronald attacked - not only that but Ronald also attacked another Israeli-based company called Divineworks (here in Nanog) and they are also a direct competitor of the Israeli-based company GeoEdge. What was done here is a cyber influence operation without a single proof because of a business competition. That criminal https://twitter.com/underthebreach which is a member of "The Spamhaus Project" and pumped Ronald Imagination - is not the only person which is abusing the power of "The Spamhaus Project" for commericial goals, that are many many more people and companies behind the illegal anonymous organization "The Spamhaus Project" which are making profit from it, for example: - Vincent Schonau from Open-Xchange (AKA "Vincenet Hanna" of "The Spamhaus Project") that "The Spamhaus Project" is attacking the competitors of Open-Xchange. - Laura Atkins from WordToTheWise which is selling a Spamhaus listing removal service (https://wordtothewise.com) Real identities behind "The Spamhaus Project": "Mike Anderson" - Michael O'Reirdan (Chairman Emeritus of W3AAWG) and Professor Ross Anderson from Cambridge university (both known as "Mike Anderson" of "The Spamhaus Project") "Rob Shultz" - Rob McEwen (https://www.invaluement.com/) "Thomas Morrison" - Daniel R. Thomas (https://personal.cis.strath.ac.uk/d.thomas/) "Pete Dawes" - Ildiko Pete (https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~ip358/) "Vincent Hanna" - Vincent Schonau of Open-Xchange (https://www.linkedin.com/in/vincentschonau/) "Milly Fawcett" - Kelly Molloy of FarSight Security (https://www.linkedin.com/in/kelly-molloy-b886442/) Among others. Companies behind the illegal anonymous organization "The Spamhaus Project": ThreatSTOP FarSight Security Fastly Dyn Cymru Abusix Among others. Regarding the article that Ronald shared, in it there is clearly written: "It must be noted that Cohen is not being accused of any illegal activity in this report." But it doesn't change the fact that the article was clearly written only for Ronald to be able to post it and to proceed with the illegal "cyber influence operation" to attack me without a single proof. The article was written by the instruction of the "The Spamhaus Project" mob and then Ronald made this post according to the instruction from "The Spamhaus Project" mob. A coordinated illegal "cyber influence operation" without a single proof. Many subscribers of the Nanog list are members of the illegal anonymous organization "The Spamhaus Project" - Ronald Guilmette is just their front clown - expect many of them to jump now and to defame me here without a single proof (because this is how the illegal anonynous organization "The Spamhaus Project" works) - and you can ask them a simple single question - "show us a single proof" - and - "if you cannot show us a single proof then please stop spamming the mailing list". Ronald at the end of his post keep spreading lies and writing: "less than honorable intent reach for power" "to persons with an interest only in what is best for them personally, to the exclusion of all else" "Democracy dies in darkness." When in reality I invented three new pantets for the best of the whole Internet community and I will work to implement them if I will be elected: IPv4+ that will mitigate the "IPv4 Exhaustion" problem and will add more 4,294,967,296 IPv4 addresses: (can be implemented with software updates and not all internet hosts in the world will have to be updated - home routers and home modems which are the vast majority of routing equipment in the world - will not need to be updated and will support more 4,294,967,296 IPv4 addresses with IPv4+ ) https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/members-discuss/2020-April/003676.ht... Completely mitigating the global email spam problem in a clean and automatic way: (and also mitigating the illegal anonymous organization "The Spamhaus Project") https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/members-discuss/2020-April/003778.ht... Completely mitigating spoofed ip amplification DDoS attacks and spoofed ip traffic with is a source for criminality: https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/members-discuss/2020-April/003902.ht... They ("The Spamhaus Project" mob) wants to keep controlling RIPE and any other internet organizations - I want to liberate RIPE - I want to make sure that that illegal anonymous organization that violates any thing which is sacred in the Interent (freedom, free speech and connectivity) - will have no footprint in RIPE. My full agenda can be read here: https://www.ripe.net/participate/meetings/gm/meetings/may-2020/candidate-bio... Ronald is afraid from me being elected because he knows that if I will be elected I will put an end to the illgal anonymous organization "The Spamhaus Project" which is intimidating and harassing many organizations and many businesses worldwide. Kind Regards, Elad ________________________________ From: NANOG <nanog-bounces@nanog.org> on behalf of Ronald F. Guilmette <rfg@tristatelogic.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 12:50 PM To: nanog@nanog.org <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: RIPE NCC Executive Board election Many of you here may be dues-paying members of both ARIN and RIPE. Those of you who are may wish to be aware of the fact that there will be an election held on (I believe) May 14th, just a day or two from now, for three open RIPE NCC Executive Board seats. I have it on good authority that one of the candidates running for the open RIPE NCC board seats in this election has hired legal counsel in South Africa, and that said legal counsel has then proceeded to threaten various officials of the City of Cape Town, South Africa with possible legal action if they do not relinquish to him their rights in and title to the 165.25.0.0/16 block, a block that all historical records, including even ARIN "WhoWas" historical records show, clearly and unambiguously, has been legally registered to the City of Cape Town for over twenty years. (I am assured that at no time did the City of Cape Town ever sell, trade, or barter away their rights to this valuable IPv4 block, and that they are defending themselves, as best as they can, against this attempt to extort them out of their rightful prooperty.) Where I come from, this kind of thing is called barratry, but you be the judge. In any case, prior to the RIPE election, I wanted to let you all know these facts about the candidate in question, as well as a number of additional startling facts relating to the people who nominated this candidate for a RIPE NCC Executive board seat, as documented by my friend, South African journalist Jan Vermeulen: https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/350973-man-connected-to-african-ip-a... I could go into more detail about many of the nominators mentioned in the above article, but I don't want to make this email too long, so I'll await some explict request for that additional info. For now it should suffice to make at least some of the basic facts more widely available, a task which is accomplished just by sharing the above link, IMHO. Regards, rfg P.S. I have been specifically and explicitly enjoined and constrained from posting here anything at all that might smack of being either partisan or of an even vaguely "political" nature, and thus, I will refrain from doing so. I would be remiss hoever if I did not at least note in passing that history records that in times such as these, when people of good character and good intent are, as they rightly should be, focused on the health and safety of themselves, their loved ones, and their professional collegues, and when the gaze of the world is elsewhere, persons of less than honorable intent reach for power and, with unfortunate regularity, obtain it. I cannot and do not ask that those of you who have been saddled with personal or local crises during this sad time turn away from those responsibilities to give attention to matters of Internet governance, however urgent those may appear at the moment. For all of us, our first- order duty lies nearby, with family, friends, and collegues. But for those of you who still have a few cycles to spare, I do ask that you consider carefully the newfound and critical importance of this tool, this Internet, in the lives of so many millions, all around the world, and the self-evident risks of its governance being handed over, by default or otherwise, to persons with an interest only in what is best for them personally, to the exclusion of all else. P.P.S. I would be posting this info and the above link also to the very relevant RIPE members-discuss mailing list, but as I am not a due-paying member of RIPE, I have no ability to do so. Separately, due in no small part to the candidate's own recent and manifest on-list transgressions on that very list, that list has recently been switched to a heavy-handed moderation, under which, it seems, even discussion of the pros and cons of candidates in the upcoming RIPE NCC Executive Board election are now categorized as "too controversial" and thus, themselves, are now entirely off-limits. I cannot help but be reminded of a catch-phrase that I saw somewhere, not too long ago: "Democracy dies in darkness." -- anon
LOL at people that are against anything besides IPv6 when it will take much much more time until IPv6 will be fully deployed. You clearly didn't understand how IPv4+ works. ________________________________ From: NANOG <nanog-bounces@nanog.org> on behalf of David Hubbard <dhubbard@dino.hostasaurus.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 8:17 PM To: nanog@nanog.org <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election LOL the IPv4+ thing was a pretty entertaining read. You clearly don’t have even a basic understanding of the v4 packet structure, or that the octet display concept is simply for human benefit. IPv6 can be implemented with ‘software updates’ too… From: NANOG <nanog-bounces@nanog.org> on behalf of Elad Cohen <elad@netstyle.io> Date: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 at 9:47 AM To: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg@tristatelogic.com>, "nanog@nanog.org" <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election Hello Everyone, My apology for not providing an official response to the first "The Ronald Show" that took place here many months ago, I was out of hospital after full anesthesia and it took me months to get back to myself. What was done towards me and what being done to me by Ronald is an intentional personal attack against me and I will explain. I didn't agree to provide private business documents to the illegal anonymous organization "The Spamhaus Project" that they tried to extort from me - then I found out who are the real people behind the illegal anonymous organization "The Spamhaus Project" - and then they started to attack me (including here on Nanog, with false information, when I was out of hospital and wasn't in the condition to respond to them). "The Spamhaus Project" is an illegal anonymous organization according to their own words in their own following presentation: https://www.scribd.com/document/445894312/Spamhaus-Illegal-Private-Data-Viol... They wrote in it that they receive on a regular basis - massive amount of illegaly-obtained privacy data from their contacts in many internet companies and internet organizations - and then they share it in illegal way (without any warrant) with Law Enforcement Agencies - this is the reason that Law Enforcement Agencies are doing nothing regarding the illegal anonymous organization "The Spamhaus Project". Ronald Guilmette is the front person of the illegal anonymous organization "The Spamhaus Project". ---- and that said legal counsel has then proceeded to threaten various officials of the City of Cape Town, South Africa with possible legal action if they do not relinquish to him their rights in and title to the 165.25.0.0/16 block ---- This is a complete lie, in order to shame CoCT I will not share their internal correspondences. Anyone interested to know more information can email me directly. ---- "I am assured that at no time did the City of Cape Town ever sell, trade, or barter away their rights to this valuable IPv4 block" ---- Ronald is "assured" exactly as he is "assured" that all Dutch people are criminals and all Colombian network oeprators are criminals and all Chicago citizens are criminals according to his statements in the following links: https://imgur.com/AcmgwEX https://imgur.com/WUZvdNJ https://imgur.com/a/Rzrbxkz Ronald was called an antisemitic and a racist person here on Nanog in the following two links, by people which are not related to me: https://imgur.com/AQCmZlk https://imgur.com/a/Rzrbxkz In the first "The Ronald Show" many months ago - Ronald called me in two antisemitic names that are being used to relate to Jews in Shakespeare literature (just like Ronald is relating to Shakespeare in https://imgur.com/AcmgwEX ) - as part of his defamation campaign towards me - none of you raised a voice and not only that but some Nanog subscribers enjoyed his racism and antisemitism (without a single proof against me) as was written here by them (with a popcorn). The "source" in "The Spamhaus Project" that supported and pumped Ronald Imagination is the criminal of the anonymous twitter account: https://twitter.com/underthebreach , that person according to his own words in his own criminal anonymous twitter account - is a master of cyber influence operations (meaning to influence people without a single proof) - that person is also an employee of the Israeli-based company GeoEdge and they are a direct competitor of a company that used the netblocks that Ronald attacked - not only that but Ronald also attacked another Israeli-based company called Divineworks (here in Nanog) and they are also a direct competitor of the Israeli-based company GeoEdge. What was done here is a cyber influence operation without a single proof because of a business competition. That criminal https://twitter.com/underthebreach which is a member of "The Spamhaus Project" and pumped Ronald Imagination - is not the only person which is abusing the power of "The Spamhaus Project" for commericial goals, that are many many more people and companies behind the illegal anonymous organization "The Spamhaus Project" which are making profit from it, for example: - Vincent Schonau from Open-Xchange (AKA "Vincenet Hanna" of "The Spamhaus Project") that "The Spamhaus Project" is attacking the competitors of Open-Xchange. - Laura Atkins from WordToTheWise which is selling a Spamhaus listing removal service (https://wordtothewise.com) Real identities behind "The Spamhaus Project": "Mike Anderson" - Michael O'Reirdan (Chairman Emeritus of W3AAWG) and Professor Ross Anderson from Cambridge university (both known as "Mike Anderson" of "The Spamhaus Project") "Rob Shultz" - Rob McEwen (https://www.invaluement.com/) "Thomas Morrison" - Daniel R. Thomas (https://personal.cis.strath.ac.uk/d.thomas/) "Pete Dawes" - Ildiko Pete (https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~ip358/) "Vincent Hanna" - Vincent Schonau of Open-Xchange (https://www.linkedin.com/in/vincentschonau/) "Milly Fawcett" - Kelly Molloy of FarSight Security (https://www.linkedin.com/in/kelly-molloy-b886442/) Among others. Companies behind the illegal anonymous organization "The Spamhaus Project": ThreatSTOP FarSight Security Fastly Dyn Cymru Abusix Among others. Regarding the article that Ronald shared, in it there is clearly written: "It must be noted that Cohen is not being accused of any illegal activity in this report." But it doesn't change the fact that the article was clearly written only for Ronald to be able to post it and to proceed with the illegal "cyber influence operation" to attack me without a single proof. The article was written by the instruction of the "The Spamhaus Project" mob and then Ronald made this post according to the instruction from "The Spamhaus Project" mob. A coordinated illegal "cyber influence operation" without a single proof. Many subscribers of the Nanog list are members of the illegal anonymous organization "The Spamhaus Project" - Ronald Guilmette is just their front clown - expect many of them to jump now and to defame me here without a single proof (because this is how the illegal anonynous organization "The Spamhaus Project" works) - and you can ask them a simple single question - "show us a single proof" - and - "if you cannot show us a single proof then please stop spamming the mailing list". Ronald at the end of his post keep spreading lies and writing: "less than honorable intent reach for power" "to persons with an interest only in what is best for them personally, to the exclusion of all else" "Democracy dies in darkness." When in reality I invented three new pantets for the best of the whole Internet community and I will work to implement them if I will be elected: IPv4+ that will mitigate the "IPv4 Exhaustion" problem and will add more 4,294,967,296 IPv4 addresses: (can be implemented with software updates and not all internet hosts in the world will have to be updated - home routers and home modems which are the vast majority of routing equipment in the world - will not need to be updated and will support more 4,294,967,296 IPv4 addresses with IPv4+ ) https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/members-discuss/2020-April/003676.ht... Completely mitigating the global email spam problem in a clean and automatic way: (and also mitigating the illegal anonymous organization "The Spamhaus Project") https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/members-discuss/2020-April/003778.ht... Completely mitigating spoofed ip amplification DDoS attacks and spoofed ip traffic with is a source for criminality: https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/members-discuss/2020-April/003902.ht... They ("The Spamhaus Project" mob) wants to keep controlling RIPE and any other internet organizations - I want to liberate RIPE - I want to make sure that that illegal anonymous organization that violates any thing which is sacred in the Interent (freedom, free speech and connectivity) - will have no footprint in RIPE. My full agenda can be read here: https://www.ripe.net/participate/meetings/gm/meetings/may-2020/candidate-bio... Ronald is afraid from me being elected because he knows that if I will be elected I will put an end to the illgal anonymous organization "The Spamhaus Project" which is intimidating and harassing many organizations and many businesses worldwide. Kind Regards, Elad ________________________________ From: NANOG <nanog-bounces@nanog.org> on behalf of Ronald F. Guilmette <rfg@tristatelogic.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 12:50 PM To: nanog@nanog.org <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: RIPE NCC Executive Board election Many of you here may be dues-paying members of both ARIN and RIPE. Those of you who are may wish to be aware of the fact that there will be an election held on (I believe) May 14th, just a day or two from now, for three open RIPE NCC Executive Board seats. I have it on good authority that one of the candidates running for the open RIPE NCC board seats in this election has hired legal counsel in South Africa, and that said legal counsel has then proceeded to threaten various officials of the City of Cape Town, South Africa with possible legal action if they do not relinquish to him their rights in and title to the 165.25.0.0/16 block, a block that all historical records, including even ARIN "WhoWas" historical records show, clearly and unambiguously, has been legally registered to the City of Cape Town for over twenty years. (I am assured that at no time did the City of Cape Town ever sell, trade, or barter away their rights to this valuable IPv4 block, and that they are defending themselves, as best as they can, against this attempt to extort them out of their rightful prooperty.) Where I come from, this kind of thing is called barratry, but you be the judge. In any case, prior to the RIPE election, I wanted to let you all know these facts about the candidate in question, as well as a number of additional startling facts relating to the people who nominated this candidate for a RIPE NCC Executive board seat, as documented by my friend, South African journalist Jan Vermeulen: https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/350973-man-connected-to-african-ip-a... I could go into more detail about many of the nominators mentioned in the above article, but I don't want to make this email too long, so I'll await some explict request for that additional info. For now it should suffice to make at least some of the basic facts more widely available, a task which is accomplished just by sharing the above link, IMHO. Regards, rfg P.S. I have been specifically and explicitly enjoined and constrained from posting here anything at all that might smack of being either partisan or of an even vaguely "political" nature, and thus, I will refrain from doing so. I would be remiss hoever if I did not at least note in passing that history records that in times such as these, when people of good character and good intent are, as they rightly should be, focused on the health and safety of themselves, their loved ones, and their professional collegues, and when the gaze of the world is elsewhere, persons of less than honorable intent reach for power and, with unfortunate regularity, obtain it. I cannot and do not ask that those of you who have been saddled with personal or local crises during this sad time turn away from those responsibilities to give attention to matters of Internet governance, however urgent those may appear at the moment. For all of us, our first- order duty lies nearby, with family, friends, and collegues. But for those of you who still have a few cycles to spare, I do ask that you consider carefully the newfound and critical importance of this tool, this Internet, in the lives of so many millions, all around the world, and the self-evident risks of its governance being handed over, by default or otherwise, to persons with an interest only in what is best for them personally, to the exclusion of all else. P.P.S. I would be posting this info and the above link also to the very relevant RIPE members-discuss mailing list, but as I am not a due-paying member of RIPE, I have no ability to do so. Separately, due in no small part to the candidate's own recent and manifest on-list transgressions on that very list, that list has recently been switched to a heavy-handed moderation, under which, it seems, even discussion of the pros and cons of candidates in the upcoming RIPE NCC Executive Board election are now categorized as "too controversial" and thus, themselves, are now entirely off-limits. I cannot help but be reminded of a catch-phrase that I saw somewhere, not too long ago: "Democracy dies in darkness." -- anon
"As a matter of fact" - if you created an implementation please send me the sourcecode. ________________________________ From: Töma Gavrichenkov <ximaera@gmail.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 10:02 PM To: Elad Cohen <elad@netstyle.io> Cc: David Hubbard <dhubbard@dino.hostasaurus.com>; NANOG <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election Peace, On Wed, May 13, 2020, 8:33 PM Elad Cohen <elad@netstyle.io<mailto:elad@netstyle.io>> wrote: You clearly didn't understand how IPv4+ works. That's because it doesn't work! Just like the rest of your "solutions", as a matter of fact. -- Töma
Peace, On Wed, May 13, 2020, 10:07 PM Elad Cohen <elad@netstyle.io> wrote:
"As a matter of fact" - if you created an implementation please send me the sourcecode.
Wait, so you're coming up publicly with a proposal you don't even have a reference implementation for?! Oh, my. -- Töma
So you didn't even test the implementation and didn't create it - so why you are writing "As a matter of fact". Which fact ? any evidence ? ________________________________ From: Töma Gavrichenkov <ximaera@gmail.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 10:25 PM To: Elad Cohen <elad@netstyle.io> Cc: David Hubbard <dhubbard@dino.hostasaurus.com>; NANOG <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election Peace, On Wed, May 13, 2020, 10:07 PM Elad Cohen <elad@netstyle.io<mailto:elad@netstyle.io>> wrote: "As a matter of fact" - if you created an implementation please send me the sourcecode. Wait, so you're coming up publicly with a proposal you don't even have a reference implementation for?! Oh, my. -- Töma
Peace, On Wed, May 13, 2020, 10:27 PM Elad Cohen <elad@netstyle.io> wrote:
So you didn't even test the implementation and didn't create it - so why you are writing "As a matter of fact". Which fact ? any evidence ?
No, Elad. It is *you* who needs to prove that your concept works. Unless you do it, it is wise (and generally acceptable in IETF and the likes) to assume it doesn't. So far, you haven't done so. Having said so, when it comes to your "anti-spoofing solution" (sic!), I even have dedicated certain time reviewing it and writing a response. Based on the concepts I've seen, I honestly wonder if you ever got the appropriate engineering degree. By the way, what you have published as your "biography" on the RIPE Exec Board candidate page doesn't quite help to sort out the latter statement. -- Töma
For you nothing will work. ________________________________ From: Töma Gavrichenkov <ximaera@gmail.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 10:39 PM To: Elad Cohen <elad@netstyle.io> Cc: David Hubbard <dhubbard@dino.hostasaurus.com>; NANOG <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election Peace, On Wed, May 13, 2020, 10:27 PM Elad Cohen <elad@netstyle.io<mailto:elad@netstyle.io>> wrote: So you didn't even test the implementation and didn't create it - so why you are writing "As a matter of fact". Which fact ? any evidence ? No, Elad. It is *you* who needs to prove that your concept works. Unless you do it, it is wise (and generally acceptable in IETF and the likes) to assume it doesn't. So far, you haven't done so. Having said so, when it comes to your "anti-spoofing solution" (sic!), I even have dedicated certain time reviewing it and writing a response. Based on the concepts I've seen, I honestly wonder if you ever got the appropriate engineering degree. By the way, what you have published as your "biography" on the RIPE Exec Board candidate page doesn't quite help to sort out the latter statement. -- Töma
On 2020-05-13 22:53, Töma Gavrichenkov wrote:
Peace,
On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 10:43 PM Elad Cohen <elad@netstyle.io> wrote:
For you nothing will work.
Is it a personal attack?
IPv6 is working good for me so far ;-)
-- Töma It works for Elad as well. He is pushing others for IPv4+ suffering, while he is happily using IPv6. (Anybody can check his x-originating-ip header) ROTFL
Peace, On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 12:18 AM Denys Fedoryshchenko <nuclearcat@nuclearcat.com> wrote:
On 2020-05-13 22:53, Töma Gavrichenkov wrote:
On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 10:43 PM Elad Cohen <elad@netstyle.io> wrote:
For you nothing will work.
IPv6 is working good for me so far ;-)
It works for Elad as well. He is pushing others for IPv4+ suffering, while he is happily using IPv6. (Anybody can check his x-originating-ip header) ROTFL
Wow!! Kudos for noticing that. This is hilarious :-) -- Töma
I would like to apologize before the whole Nanog community, there are people which are very very obsessed to me and following me everywhere, such as Denys and Toma, you can see what Denys wrote in the following link: https://imgur.com/a/PAdx9xz I wish good luck to their candidate in these elections. ________________________________ From: NANOG <nanog-bounces@nanog.org> on behalf of Denys Fedoryshchenko <nuclearcat@nuclearcat.com> Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2020 12:18 AM To: Töma Gavrichenkov <ximaera@gmail.com> Cc: NANOG <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election On 2020-05-13 22:53, Töma Gavrichenkov wrote:
Peace,
On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 10:43 PM Elad Cohen <elad@netstyle.io> wrote:
For you nothing will work.
Is it a personal attack?
IPv6 is working good for me so far ;-)
-- Töma It works for Elad as well. He is pushing others for IPv4+ suffering, while he is happily using IPv6. (Anybody can check his x-originating-ip header) ROTFL
Elad, How do you expect to get elected when you are attacking the very people who will be voting in the election? Further, it would seem you have very little experience in actually operating large scale networks, network equipment or softwarr. You do realize that a LARGE number of devices on the Internet run operating systems that are no longer vendor supported? So even if you could convince ALL vendors to support IPV4+ (nearly impossible), how do you plan to solve the devices I mentioned?Perhaps it's because you can't, and neither can IPV6, except a subset of those devices already support IPV6, so there will less devices left behind than with your solution. The more you talk, the more uneducated you sound. Shane On Wed, May 13, 2020, 3:48 PM Elad Cohen <elad@netstyle.io> wrote:
For you nothing will work. ------------------------------ *From:* Töma Gavrichenkov <ximaera@gmail.com> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 13, 2020 10:39 PM *To:* Elad Cohen <elad@netstyle.io> *Cc:* David Hubbard <dhubbard@dino.hostasaurus.com>; NANOG < nanog@nanog.org> *Subject:* Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election
Peace,
On Wed, May 13, 2020, 10:27 PM Elad Cohen <elad@netstyle.io> wrote:
So you didn't even test the implementation and didn't create it - so why you are writing "As a matter of fact". Which fact ? any evidence ?
No, Elad. It is *you* who needs to prove that your concept works. Unless you do it, it is wise (and generally acceptable in IETF and the likes) to assume it doesn't.
So far, you haven't done so.
Having said so, when it comes to your "anti-spoofing solution" (sic!), I even have dedicated certain time reviewing it and writing a response. Based on the concepts I've seen, I honestly wonder if you ever got the appropriate engineering degree.
By the way, what you have published as your "biography" on the RIPE Exec Board candidate page doesn't quite help to sort out the latter statement.
-- Töma
Peace,
On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 11:01 PM Shane Ronan <shane@ronan-online.com> wrote:
On Wed, May 13, 2020, 3:48 PM Elad Cohen <elad@netstyle.io> wrote:
From: Töma Gavrichenkov <ximaera@gmail.com> No, Elad. It is *you* who needs to prove that your concept works.
For you nothing will work.
How do you expect to get elected when you are attacking the very people who will be voting in the election?
Thank you, but, well, I don't treat this as a real insult after all. I've got some prior experience, and I've learned how to forgive and forget. 10 years ago I was pursuing my PhD degree, and I've been teaching bachelor wannabees on how to write Haskell code at the time. I must say I've heard worse things from first year students about me then :-) -- Töma
"forgive and forget." Thank you for your vote. ________________________________ From: Töma Gavrichenkov <ximaera@gmail.com> Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2020 12:45 AM To: Shane Ronan <shane@ronan-online.com> Cc: Elad Cohen <elad@netstyle.io>; NANOG <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election Peace,
On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 11:01 PM Shane Ronan <shane@ronan-online.com> wrote:
On Wed, May 13, 2020, 3:48 PM Elad Cohen <elad@netstyle.io> wrote:
From: Töma Gavrichenkov <ximaera@gmail.com> No, Elad. It is *you* who needs to prove that your concept works.
For you nothing will work.
How do you expect to get elected when you are attacking the very people who will be voting in the election?
Thank you, but, well, I don't treat this as a real insult after all. I've got some prior experience, and I've learned how to forgive and forget. 10 years ago I was pursuing my PhD degree, and I've been teaching bachelor wannabees on how to write Haskell code at the time. I must say I've heard worse things from first year students about me then :-) -- Töma
Peace, On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 12:48 AM Elad Cohen <elad@netstyle.io> wrote:
"forgive and forget." Thank you for your vote.
Well, when I forget anything that doesn't make sense about your proposals, there's nothing left to think of! Ergo, not at all, because I'm clearly not voting for you :-) -- Töma
Who you are voting? ________________________________ From: Töma Gavrichenkov <ximaera@gmail.com> Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2020 12:51 AM To: Elad Cohen <elad@netstyle.io> Cc: Shane Ronan <shane@ronan-online.com>; NANOG <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election Peace, On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 12:48 AM Elad Cohen <elad@netstyle.io> wrote:
"forgive and forget." Thank you for your vote.
Well, when I forget anything that doesn't make sense about your proposals, there's nothing left to think of! Ergo, not at all, because I'm clearly not voting for you :-) -- Töma
Peace, On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 12:53 AM Elad Cohen <elad@netstyle.io> wrote:
Who you are voting?
Who me what?.. Alright, At this point, given that I've reviewed all of your proposals — some of those lengthy reviews were sent to members-discuss at ripe dot net before (though it has never been the right place either to post your "concepts" or to review them — IETF secdispatch is, as I've told you numerous times before) — I'm going to toss a coin, which is a coin without the option of you. Sleep well. -- Töma
More of an "ideas guy" I guess On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 3:33 PM Töma Gavrichenkov <ximaera@gmail.com> wrote:
Peace,
On Wed, May 13, 2020, 10:07 PM Elad Cohen <elad@netstyle.io> wrote:
"As a matter of fact" - if you created an implementation please send me the sourcecode.
Wait, so you're coming up publicly with a proposal you don't even have a reference implementation for?!
Oh, my.
-- Töma
More accurately, you clearly don’t understand exactly how IPv4+ doesn’t work. Owen
On May 13, 2020, at 10:30 , Elad Cohen <elad@netstyle.io> wrote:
LOL at people that are against anything besides IPv6 when it will take much much more time until IPv6 will be fully deployed. You clearly didn't understand how IPv4+ works.
I understand the following sentence: https://icannwiki.org/Owen_DeLong "Owen has a special interest in policy as it relates to IPv4 exhaustion and IPv6 deployment." ________________________________ From: Owen DeLong <owen@delong.com> Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2020 12:03 AM To: Elad Cohen <elad@netstyle.io> Cc: David Hubbard <dhubbard@dino.hostasaurus.com>; nanog@nanog.org <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election More accurately, you clearly don’t understand exactly how IPv4+ doesn’t work. Owen On May 13, 2020, at 10:30 , Elad Cohen <elad@netstyle.io<mailto:elad@netstyle.io>> wrote: LOL at people that are against anything besides IPv6 when it will take much much more time until IPv6 will be fully deployed. You clearly didn't understand how IPv4+ works.
On Wed, 13 May 2020 17:17:07 -0000, David Hubbard said:
LOL the IPv4+ thing was a pretty entertaining read. You clearly don’t have even a basic understanding of the v4 packet structure, or that the octet display concept is simply for human benefit. IPv6 can be implemented with ‘software updates’ too…
Yes, it was quite the chuckle, approaching the IPv8 proposal and that guy who kept insisting that an octet was misnumbered and could represent 257 addresses...
From: NANOG <nanog-bounces@nanog.org> on behalf of Elad Cohen <elad@netstyle.io> Date: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 at 9:47 AM To: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg@tristatelogic.com>, "nanog@nanog.org" <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election
Hello Everyone,
My apology for not providing an official response to the first "The Ronald Show" that took place here many months ago, I was out of hospital after full anesthesia and it took me months to get back to myself.
I'm pretty sure Elad should have used this next part for backing up his assertion that he was totally out of it during April. Because he's doing a really good job here of demonstrating that he doesn't understand how the Internet works well enough to qualify for a seat on the RIPE board:
When in reality I invented three new pantets for the best of the whole Internet community and I will work to implement them if I will be elected:
IPv4+ that will mitigate the "IPv4 Exhaustion" problem and will add more (...) https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/members-discuss/2020-April/003676.ht...
Completely mitigating the global email spam problem in a clean and automatic way: (...) https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/members-discuss/2020-April/003778.ht...
Completely mitigating spoofed ip amplification DDoS attacks and spoofed ip (...) https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/members-discuss/2020-April/003902.ht...
Dude, you sound like a rambling loon in this e-mail. Hate to break it to you, but there's nothing illegal about Spamhaus or what it does. This has been proven in court cases before. Your supposed 'invention' for IPv4+ has been suggested before many times publicly in different variations (like for example, .999), and usually laughed at, because it lacks a fundamental understanding of how IPv4 was designed and why it was designed that way. Your anti-spam 'solutions' are just another "ultimate solution to the spam problem" that isn't going to work, and that quite a few us of laugh at every time someone brings up their own version of it. Being a former DNSbl maintainer, I've seen e-mails like this hundreds of times from people like you. Some things never change, do they? On 5/13/2020 7:46 AM, Elad Cohen wrote:
Hello Everyone,
My apology for not providing an official response to the first "The Ronald Show" that took place here many months ago, I was out of hospital after full anesthesia and it took me months to get back to myself.
What was done towards me and what being done to me by Ronald is an intentional personal attack against me and I will explain.
I didn't agree to provide private business documents to the illegal anonymous organization "The Spamhaus Project" that they tried to extort from me - then I found out who are the real people behind the illegal anonymous organization "The Spamhaus Project" - and then they started to attack me (including here on Nanog, with false information, when I was out of hospital and wasn't in the condition to respond to them).
"The Spamhaus Project" is an illegal anonymous organization according to their own words in their own following presentation:
https://www.scribd.com/document/445894312/Spamhaus-Illegal-Private-Data-Viol...
They wrote in it that they receive on a regular basis - massive amount of illegaly-obtained privacy data from their contacts in many internet companies and internet organizations - and then they share it in illegal way (without any warrant) with Law Enforcement Agencies - this is the reason that Law Enforcement Agencies are doing nothing regarding the illegal anonymous organization "The Spamhaus Project".
Ronald Guilmette is the front person of the illegal anonymous organization "The Spamhaus Project".
---- /and that said legal counsel has then / /proceeded to threaten various officials of the City of Cape Town, / /South Africa with possible legal action if they do not relinquish / /to him their rights in and title to the 165.25.0.0/16 block/ ---- This is a complete lie, in order to shame CoCT I will not share their internal correspondences. Anyone interested to know more information can email me directly.
---- /"I am assured that at no time did the City of Cape Town ever sell, trade, or barter away their rights to this valuable IPv4 block"/ ---- Ronald is "assured" exactly as he is "assured" that all Dutch people are criminals and all Colombian network oeprators are criminals and all Chicago citizens are criminals according to his statements in the following links: https://imgur.com/AcmgwEX https://imgur.com/WUZvdNJ https://imgur.com/a/Rzrbxkz
Ronald was called an antisemitic and a racist person here on Nanog in the following two links, by people which are not related to me: https://imgur.com/AQCmZlk https://imgur.com/a/Rzrbxkz
In the first "The Ronald Show" many months ago - Ronald called me in two antisemitic names that are being used to relate to Jews in Shakespeare literature (just like Ronald is relating to Shakespeare in https://imgur.com/AcmgwEX ) - as part of his defamation campaign towards me - none of you raised a voice and not only that but some Nanog subscribers enjoyed his racism and antisemitism (without a single proof against me) as was written here by them (with a popcorn).
The "source" in "The Spamhaus Project" that supported and pumped Ronald Imagination is the criminal of the anonymous twitter account: https://twitter.com/underthebreach , that person according to his own words in his own criminal anonymous twitter account - is a master of cyber influence operations (meaning to influence people without a single proof) - that person is also an employee of the Israeli-based company GeoEdge and they are a direct competitor of a company that used the netblocks that Ronald attacked - not only that but Ronald also attacked another Israeli-based company called Divineworks (here in Nanog) and they are also a direct competitor of the Israeli-based company GeoEdge. What was done here is a cyber influence operation without a single proof because of a business competition.
That criminal https://twitter.com/underthebreach which is a member of "The Spamhaus Project" and pumped Ronald Imagination - is not the only person which is abusing the power of "The Spamhaus Project" for commericial goals, that are many many more people and companies behind the illegal anonymous organization "The Spamhaus Project" which are making profit from it, for example:
- Vincent Schonau from Open-Xchange (AKA "Vincenet Hanna" of "The Spamhaus Project") that "The Spamhaus Project" is attacking the competitors of Open-Xchange. - Laura Atkins from WordToTheWise which is selling a Spamhaus listing removal service (https://wordtothewise.com)
Real identities behind "The Spamhaus Project":
"Mike Anderson" - Michael O'Reirdan (Chairman Emeritus of W3AAWG) and Professor Ross Anderson from Cambridge university (both known as "Mike Anderson" of "The Spamhaus Project") "Rob Shultz" - Rob McEwen (https://www.invaluement.com/) "Thomas Morrison" - Daniel R. Thomas (https://personal.cis.strath.ac.uk/d.thomas/) "Pete Dawes" - Ildiko Pete (https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~ip358/) "Vincent Hanna" - Vincent Schonau of Open-Xchange (https://www.linkedin.com/in/vincentschonau/) "Milly Fawcett" - Kelly Molloy of FarSight Security (https://www.linkedin.com/in/kelly-molloy-b886442/) Among others.
Companies behind the illegal anonymous organization "The Spamhaus Project": ThreatSTOP FarSight Security Fastly Dyn Cymru Abusix Among others.
Regarding the article that Ronald shared, in it there is clearly written:
"It must be noted that Cohen is not being accused of any illegal activity in this report."
But it doesn't change the fact that the article was clearly written only for Ronald to be able to post it and to proceed with the illegal "cyber influence operation" to attack me without a single proof. The article was written by the instruction of the "The Spamhaus Project" mob and then Ronald made this post according to the instruction from "The Spamhaus Project" mob. A coordinated illegal "cyber influence operation" without a single proof.
Many subscribers of the Nanog list are members of the illegal anonymous organization "The Spamhaus Project" - Ronald Guilmette is just their front clown - expect many of them to jump now and to defame me here without a single proof (because this is how the illegal anonynous organization "The Spamhaus Project" works) - and you can ask them a simple single question - "show us a single proof" - and - "if you cannot show us a single proof then please stop spamming the mailing list".
Ronald at the end of his post keep spreading lies and writing: "less than honorable intent reach for power" "to persons with an interest only in what is best for them personally, to the exclusion of all else" "Democracy dies in darkness."
When in reality I invented three new pantets for the best of the whole Internet community and I will work to implement them if I will be elected:
IPv4+ that will mitigate the "IPv4 Exhaustion" problem and will add more 4,294,967,296 IPv4 addresses: (can be implemented with software updates and not all internet hosts in the world will have to be updated - home routers and home modems which are the vast majority of routing equipment in the world - will not need to be updated and will support more 4,294,967,296 IPv4 addresses with IPv4+ ) https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/members-discuss/2020-April/003676.ht...
Completely mitigating the global email spam problem in a clean and automatic way: (and also mitigating the illegal anonymous organization "The Spamhaus Project") https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/members-discuss/2020-April/003778.ht...
Completely mitigating spoofed ip amplification DDoS attacks and spoofed ip traffic with is a source for criminality: https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/members-discuss/2020-April/003902.ht...
They ("The Spamhaus Project" mob) wants to keep controlling RIPE and any other internet organizations - I want to liberate RIPE - I want to make sure that that illegal anonymous organization that violates any thing which is sacred in the Interent (freedom, free speech and connectivity) - will have no footprint in RIPE.
My full agenda can be read here: https://www.ripe.net/participate/meetings/gm/meetings/may-2020/candidate-bio...
Ronald is afraid from me being elected because he knows that if I will be elected I will put an end to the illgal anonymous organization "The Spamhaus Project" which is intimidating and harassing many organizations and many businesses worldwide.
Kind Regards, Elad ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *From:* NANOG <nanog-bounces@nanog.org> on behalf of Ronald F. Guilmette <rfg@tristatelogic.com> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 13, 2020 12:50 PM *To:* nanog@nanog.org <nanog@nanog.org> *Subject:* RIPE NCC Executive Board election Many of you here may be dues-paying members of both ARIN and RIPE.
Those of you who are may wish to be aware of the fact that there will be an election held on (I believe) May 14th, just a day or two from now, for three open RIPE NCC Executive Board seats.
I have it on good authority that one of the candidates running for the open RIPE NCC board seats in this election has hired legal counsel in South Africa, and that said legal counsel has then proceeded to threaten various officials of the City of Cape Town, South Africa with possible legal action if they do not relinquish to him their rights in and title to the 165.25.0.0/16 block, a block that all historical records, including even ARIN "WhoWas" historical records show, clearly and unambiguously, has been legally registered to the City of Cape Town for over twenty years. (I am assured that at no time did the City of Cape Town ever sell, trade, or barter away their rights to this valuable IPv4 block, and that they are defending themselves, as best as they can, against this attempt to extort them out of their rightful prooperty.)
Where I come from, this kind of thing is called barratry, but you be the judge.
In any case, prior to the RIPE election, I wanted to let you all know these facts about the candidate in question, as well as a number of additional startling facts relating to the people who nominated this candidate for a RIPE NCC Executive board seat, as documented by my friend, South African journalist Jan Vermeulen:
https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/350973-man-connected-to-african-ip-a...
I could go into more detail about many of the nominators mentioned in the above article, but I don't want to make this email too long, so I'll await some explict request for that additional info. For now it should suffice to make at least some of the basic facts more widely available, a task which is accomplished just by sharing the above link, IMHO.
Regards, rfg
P.S. I have been specifically and explicitly enjoined and constrained from posting here anything at all that might smack of being either partisan or of an even vaguely "political" nature, and thus, I will refrain from doing so. I would be remiss hoever if I did not at least note in passing that history records that in times such as these, when people of good character and good intent are, as they rightly should be, focused on the health and safety of themselves, their loved ones, and their professional collegues, and when the gaze of the world is elsewhere, persons of less than honorable intent reach for power and, with unfortunate regularity, obtain it.
I cannot and do not ask that those of you who have been saddled with personal or local crises during this sad time turn away from those responsibilities to give attention to matters of Internet governance, however urgent those may appear at the moment. For all of us, our first- order duty lies nearby, with family, friends, and collegues. But for those of you who still have a few cycles to spare, I do ask that you consider carefully the newfound and critical importance of this tool, this Internet, in the lives of so many millions, all around the world, and the self-evident risks of its governance being handed over, by default or otherwise, to persons with an interest only in what is best for them personally, to the exclusion of all else.
P.P.S. I would be posting this info and the above link also to the very relevant RIPE members-discuss mailing list, but as I am not a due-paying member of RIPE, I have no ability to do so. Separately, due in no small part to the candidate's own recent and manifest on-list transgressions on that very list, that list has recently been switched to a heavy-handed moderation, under which, it seems, even discussion of the pros and cons of candidates in the upcoming RIPE NCC Executive Board election are now categorized as "too controversial" and thus, themselves, are now entirely off-limits.
I cannot help but be reminded of a catch-phrase that I saw somewhere, not too long ago:
"Democracy dies in darkness." -- anon
-- Brielle Bruns The Summit Open Source Development Group http://www.sosdg.org / http://www.ahbl.org
Spamhaus is an illegal anonymous organization according to their own words in their own following private presentation: https://www.scribd.com/document/445894312/Spamhaus-Illegal-Private-Data-Viol... When they sued in court it wasn't related to them providing massive amount of illgaly-obtained privacy data on a regular basis to Law Enforcement Agencies (without any warrant), please don't mislead the readers. The principals in IPv4+ weren't suggested anywhere else, can you provide a link ? instead of misleading the readers again. Not even a single fact in your reply, only hollow big words. ________________________________ From: NANOG <nanog-bounces@nanog.org> on behalf of Brielle <bruns@2mbit.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 8:28 PM To: nanog@nanog.org <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election Dude, you sound like a rambling loon in this e-mail. Hate to break it to you, but there's nothing illegal about Spamhaus or what it does. This has been proven in court cases before. Your supposed 'invention' for IPv4+ has been suggested before many times publicly in different variations (like for example, .999), and usually laughed at, because it lacks a fundamental understanding of how IPv4 was designed and why it was designed that way. Your anti-spam 'solutions' are just another "ultimate solution to the spam problem" that isn't going to work, and that quite a few us of laugh at every time someone brings up their own version of it. Being a former DNSbl maintainer, I've seen e-mails like this hundreds of times from people like you. Some things never change, do they? On 5/13/2020 7:46 AM, Elad Cohen wrote:
Hello Everyone,
My apology for not providing an official response to the first "The Ronald Show" that took place here many months ago, I was out of hospital after full anesthesia and it took me months to get back to myself.
What was done towards me and what being done to me by Ronald is an intentional personal attack against me and I will explain.
I didn't agree to provide private business documents to the illegal anonymous organization "The Spamhaus Project" that they tried to extort from me - then I found out who are the real people behind the illegal anonymous organization "The Spamhaus Project" - and then they started to attack me (including here on Nanog, with false information, when I was out of hospital and wasn't in the condition to respond to them).
"The Spamhaus Project" is an illegal anonymous organization according to their own words in their own following presentation:
https://www.scribd.com/document/445894312/Spamhaus-Illegal-Private-Data-Viol...
They wrote in it that they receive on a regular basis - massive amount of illegaly-obtained privacy data from their contacts in many internet companies and internet organizations - and then they share it in illegal way (without any warrant) with Law Enforcement Agencies - this is the reason that Law Enforcement Agencies are doing nothing regarding the illegal anonymous organization "The Spamhaus Project".
Ronald Guilmette is the front person of the illegal anonymous organization "The Spamhaus Project".
---- /and that said legal counsel has then / /proceeded to threaten various officials of the City of Cape Town, / /South Africa with possible legal action if they do not relinquish / /to him their rights in and title to the 165.25.0.0/16 block/ ---- This is a complete lie, in order to shame CoCT I will not share their internal correspondences. Anyone interested to know more information can email me directly.
---- /"I am assured that at no time did the City of Cape Town ever sell, trade, or barter away their rights to this valuable IPv4 block"/ ---- Ronald is "assured" exactly as he is "assured" that all Dutch people are criminals and all Colombian network oeprators are criminals and all Chicago citizens are criminals according to his statements in the following links: https://imgur.com/AcmgwEX https://imgur.com/WUZvdNJ https://imgur.com/a/Rzrbxkz
Ronald was called an antisemitic and a racist person here on Nanog in the following two links, by people which are not related to me: https://imgur.com/AQCmZlk https://imgur.com/a/Rzrbxkz
In the first "The Ronald Show" many months ago - Ronald called me in two antisemitic names that are being used to relate to Jews in Shakespeare literature (just like Ronald is relating to Shakespeare in https://imgur.com/AcmgwEX ) - as part of his defamation campaign towards me - none of you raised a voice and not only that but some Nanog subscribers enjoyed his racism and antisemitism (without a single proof against me) as was written here by them (with a popcorn).
The "source" in "The Spamhaus Project" that supported and pumped Ronald Imagination is the criminal of the anonymous twitter account: https://twitter.com/underthebreach , that person according to his own words in his own criminal anonymous twitter account - is a master of cyber influence operations (meaning to influence people without a single proof) - that person is also an employee of the Israeli-based company GeoEdge and they are a direct competitor of a company that used the netblocks that Ronald attacked - not only that but Ronald also attacked another Israeli-based company called Divineworks (here in Nanog) and they are also a direct competitor of the Israeli-based company GeoEdge. What was done here is a cyber influence operation without a single proof because of a business competition.
That criminal https://twitter.com/underthebreach which is a member of "The Spamhaus Project" and pumped Ronald Imagination - is not the only person which is abusing the power of "The Spamhaus Project" for commericial goals, that are many many more people and companies behind the illegal anonymous organization "The Spamhaus Project" which are making profit from it, for example:
- Vincent Schonau from Open-Xchange (AKA "Vincenet Hanna" of "The Spamhaus Project") that "The Spamhaus Project" is attacking the competitors of Open-Xchange. - Laura Atkins from WordToTheWise which is selling a Spamhaus listing removal service (https://wordtothewise.com)
Real identities behind "The Spamhaus Project":
"Mike Anderson" - Michael O'Reirdan (Chairman Emeritus of W3AAWG) and Professor Ross Anderson from Cambridge university (both known as "Mike Anderson" of "The Spamhaus Project") "Rob Shultz" - Rob McEwen (https://www.invaluement.com/) "Thomas Morrison" - Daniel R. Thomas (https://personal.cis.strath.ac.uk/d.thomas/) "Pete Dawes" - Ildiko Pete (https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~ip358/) "Vincent Hanna" - Vincent Schonau of Open-Xchange (https://www.linkedin.com/in/vincentschonau/) "Milly Fawcett" - Kelly Molloy of FarSight Security (https://www.linkedin.com/in/kelly-molloy-b886442/) Among others.
Companies behind the illegal anonymous organization "The Spamhaus Project": ThreatSTOP FarSight Security Fastly Dyn Cymru Abusix Among others.
Regarding the article that Ronald shared, in it there is clearly written:
"It must be noted that Cohen is not being accused of any illegal activity in this report."
But it doesn't change the fact that the article was clearly written only for Ronald to be able to post it and to proceed with the illegal "cyber influence operation" to attack me without a single proof. The article was written by the instruction of the "The Spamhaus Project" mob and then Ronald made this post according to the instruction from "The Spamhaus Project" mob. A coordinated illegal "cyber influence operation" without a single proof.
Many subscribers of the Nanog list are members of the illegal anonymous organization "The Spamhaus Project" - Ronald Guilmette is just their front clown - expect many of them to jump now and to defame me here without a single proof (because this is how the illegal anonynous organization "The Spamhaus Project" works) - and you can ask them a simple single question - "show us a single proof" - and - "if you cannot show us a single proof then please stop spamming the mailing list".
Ronald at the end of his post keep spreading lies and writing: "less than honorable intent reach for power" "to persons with an interest only in what is best for them personally, to the exclusion of all else" "Democracy dies in darkness."
When in reality I invented three new pantets for the best of the whole Internet community and I will work to implement them if I will be elected:
IPv4+ that will mitigate the "IPv4 Exhaustion" problem and will add more 4,294,967,296 IPv4 addresses: (can be implemented with software updates and not all internet hosts in the world will have to be updated - home routers and home modems which are the vast majority of routing equipment in the world - will not need to be updated and will support more 4,294,967,296 IPv4 addresses with IPv4+ ) https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/members-discuss/2020-April/003676.ht...
Completely mitigating the global email spam problem in a clean and automatic way: (and also mitigating the illegal anonymous organization "The Spamhaus Project") https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/members-discuss/2020-April/003778.ht...
Completely mitigating spoofed ip amplification DDoS attacks and spoofed ip traffic with is a source for criminality: https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/members-discuss/2020-April/003902.ht...
They ("The Spamhaus Project" mob) wants to keep controlling RIPE and any other internet organizations - I want to liberate RIPE - I want to make sure that that illegal anonymous organization that violates any thing which is sacred in the Interent (freedom, free speech and connectivity) - will have no footprint in RIPE.
My full agenda can be read here: https://www.ripe.net/participate/meetings/gm/meetings/may-2020/candidate-bio...
Ronald is afraid from me being elected because he knows that if I will be elected I will put an end to the illgal anonymous organization "The Spamhaus Project" which is intimidating and harassing many organizations and many businesses worldwide.
Kind Regards, Elad ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *From:* NANOG <nanog-bounces@nanog.org> on behalf of Ronald F. Guilmette <rfg@tristatelogic.com> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 13, 2020 12:50 PM *To:* nanog@nanog.org <nanog@nanog.org> *Subject:* RIPE NCC Executive Board election Many of you here may be dues-paying members of both ARIN and RIPE.
Those of you who are may wish to be aware of the fact that there will be an election held on (I believe) May 14th, just a day or two from now, for three open RIPE NCC Executive Board seats.
I have it on good authority that one of the candidates running for the open RIPE NCC board seats in this election has hired legal counsel in South Africa, and that said legal counsel has then proceeded to threaten various officials of the City of Cape Town, South Africa with possible legal action if they do not relinquish to him their rights in and title to the 165.25.0.0/16 block, a block that all historical records, including even ARIN "WhoWas" historical records show, clearly and unambiguously, has been legally registered to the City of Cape Town for over twenty years. (I am assured that at no time did the City of Cape Town ever sell, trade, or barter away their rights to this valuable IPv4 block, and that they are defending themselves, as best as they can, against this attempt to extort them out of their rightful prooperty.)
Where I come from, this kind of thing is called barratry, but you be the judge.
In any case, prior to the RIPE election, I wanted to let you all know these facts about the candidate in question, as well as a number of additional startling facts relating to the people who nominated this candidate for a RIPE NCC Executive board seat, as documented by my friend, South African journalist Jan Vermeulen:
https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/350973-man-connected-to-african-ip-a...
I could go into more detail about many of the nominators mentioned in the above article, but I don't want to make this email too long, so I'll await some explict request for that additional info. For now it should suffice to make at least some of the basic facts more widely available, a task which is accomplished just by sharing the above link, IMHO.
Regards, rfg
P.S. I have been specifically and explicitly enjoined and constrained from posting here anything at all that might smack of being either partisan or of an even vaguely "political" nature, and thus, I will refrain from doing so. I would be remiss hoever if I did not at least note in passing that history records that in times such as these, when people of good character and good intent are, as they rightly should be, focused on the health and safety of themselves, their loved ones, and their professional collegues, and when the gaze of the world is elsewhere, persons of less than honorable intent reach for power and, with unfortunate regularity, obtain it.
I cannot and do not ask that those of you who have been saddled with personal or local crises during this sad time turn away from those responsibilities to give attention to matters of Internet governance, however urgent those may appear at the moment. For all of us, our first- order duty lies nearby, with family, friends, and collegues. But for those of you who still have a few cycles to spare, I do ask that you consider carefully the newfound and critical importance of this tool, this Internet, in the lives of so many millions, all around the world, and the self-evident risks of its governance being handed over, by default or otherwise, to persons with an interest only in what is best for them personally, to the exclusion of all else.
P.P.S. I would be posting this info and the above link also to the very relevant RIPE members-discuss mailing list, but as I am not a due-paying member of RIPE, I have no ability to do so. Separately, due in no small part to the candidate's own recent and manifest on-list transgressions on that very list, that list has recently been switched to a heavy-handed moderation, under which, it seems, even discussion of the pros and cons of candidates in the upcoming RIPE NCC Executive Board election are now categorized as "too controversial" and thus, themselves, are now entirely off-limits.
I cannot help but be reminded of a catch-phrase that I saw somewhere, not too long ago:
"Democracy dies in darkness." -- anon
-- Brielle Bruns The Summit Open Source Development Group http://www.sosdg.org / http://www.ahbl.org
Meant to send this to the list, but hit reply instead of reply to list. Oops. Fixed. On 5/13/2020 11:35 AM, Elad Cohen wrote:
The principals in IPv4+ weren't suggested anywhere else, can you provide a link ? instead of misleading the readers again.
Those of us who have actually been involved here and elsewhere for a very long time have seen people bring it up every year. Their ultimate solution to the IPv4 issue. Like I said, we all just chuckle at it whenever anyone makes a big deal about it. There's a fundamental lack of understanding from people on why you can't just 'bolt on' more addresses to IPv4. Data structures in memory, software APIs and syscalls, hex notations, subnetting, route determination and propigation with internet routing protocols like BGP, hardware CAM, among many other things.
Not even a single fact in your reply, only hollow big words.
I'm not here to do your homework. Its not my fault you lack the understanding as to why people are openly mocking you here on your 'inventions'. -- Brielle Bruns The Summit Open Source Development Group http://www.sosdg.org / http://www.ahbl.org
----- There's a fundamental lack of understanding from people on why you can't just 'bolt on' more addresses to IPv4. Data structures in memory, software APIs and syscalls, hex notations, subnetting, route determination and propigation with internet routing protocols like BGP, hardware CAM, among many other things. ----- All of it will be resolved with a software update, and BGP will be updated to support IPv4+ with backward compatibility. ----- I'm not here to do your homework. Its not my fault you lack the understanding as to why people are openly mocking you here on your 'inventions'. ----- Nobody is "mocking" besides IPv6 fans that are against any solution until IPv6 will be fully deployed which can take more 20 years from now. ________________________________ From: NANOG <nanog-bounces@nanog.org> on behalf of Brielle <bruns@2mbit.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 8:56 PM To: NANOG list <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election Meant to send this to the list, but hit reply instead of reply to list. Oops. Fixed. On 5/13/2020 11:35 AM, Elad Cohen wrote:
The principals in IPv4+ weren't suggested anywhere else, can you provide a link ? instead of misleading the readers again.
Those of us who have actually been involved here and elsewhere for a very long time have seen people bring it up every year. Their ultimate solution to the IPv4 issue. Like I said, we all just chuckle at it whenever anyone makes a big deal about it. There's a fundamental lack of understanding from people on why you can't just 'bolt on' more addresses to IPv4. Data structures in memory, software APIs and syscalls, hex notations, subnetting, route determination and propigation with internet routing protocols like BGP, hardware CAM, among many other things.
Not even a single fact in your reply, only hollow big words.
I'm not here to do your homework. Its not my fault you lack the understanding as to why people are openly mocking you here on your 'inventions'. -- Brielle Bruns The Summit Open Source Development Group http://www.sosdg.org / http://www.ahbl.org
On 5/13/2020 12:09 PM, Elad Cohen wrote:
----- /There's a fundamental lack of understanding from people on why you can't just 'bolt on' more addresses to IPv4. Data structures in memory, software APIs and syscalls, hex notations, subnetting, route determination and propigation with internet routing protocols like BGP, hardware CAM, among many other things./ ----- All of it will be resolved with a software update, and BGP will be updated to support IPv4+ with backward compatibility.
You mean what everyone's already implemented with IPv6? A complete overhaul/replacement for IPv4, with all the changes already done and fully supported in most major software packages, servers, routers, and switches? Enlighten me on why you are so obsessed with re-implementing IPv6 as IPv4+? -
/I'm not here to do your homework. Its not my fault you lack the understanding as to why people are openly mocking you here on your 'inventions'./ ----- Nobody is "mocking" besides IPv6 fans that are against any solution until IPv6 will be fully deployed which can take more 20 years from now.
Yes, because the all powerful IPv6 cartel is working with the Lumber Cartel to stifle your 'inventions' for 'solving' the world's IP and spam problems. -- Brielle Bruns The Summit Open Source Development Group http://www.sosdg.org / http://www.ahbl.org
I really love that the entire premise of this stems from that people doing 'software upgrades' to IPv4-2 - Electric Boogaloo would be any faster than those same people just migrating to IPv6. Seriously hilarious. If they won't move to something already supported on their software, why would operators do software upgrades to buggy code. On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 2:18 PM Brielle <bruns@2mbit.com> wrote:
On 5/13/2020 12:09 PM, Elad Cohen wrote:
----- /There's a fundamental lack of understanding from people on why you can't just 'bolt on' more addresses to IPv4. Data structures in memory, software APIs and syscalls, hex notations, subnetting, route determination and propigation with internet routing protocols like BGP, hardware CAM, among many other things./ ----- All of it will be resolved with a software update, and BGP will be updated to support IPv4+ with backward compatibility.
You mean what everyone's already implemented with IPv6? A complete overhaul/replacement for IPv4, with all the changes already done and fully supported in most major software packages, servers, routers, and switches?
Enlighten me on why you are so obsessed with re-implementing IPv6 as IPv4+?
-
/I'm not here to do your homework. Its not my fault you lack the understanding as to why people are openly mocking you here on your 'inventions'./ ----- Nobody is "mocking" besides IPv6 fans that are against any solution until IPv6 will be fully deployed which can take more 20 years from now.
Yes, because the all powerful IPv6 cartel is working with the Lumber Cartel to stifle your 'inventions' for 'solving' the world's IP and spam problems.
-- Brielle Bruns The Summit Open Source Development Group http://www.sosdg.org / http://www.ahbl.org
We will take your path, lets wait 20 years for IPv6 to be fully deployed. ________________________________ From: NANOG <nanog-bounces@nanog.org> on behalf of Brielle <bruns@2mbit.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 9:16 PM To: NANOG list <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election On 5/13/2020 12:09 PM, Elad Cohen wrote:
----- /There's a fundamental lack of understanding from people on why you can't just 'bolt on' more addresses to IPv4. Data structures in memory, software APIs and syscalls, hex notations, subnetting, route determination and propigation with internet routing protocols like BGP, hardware CAM, among many other things./ ----- All of it will be resolved with a software update, and BGP will be updated to support IPv4+ with backward compatibility.
You mean what everyone's already implemented with IPv6? A complete overhaul/replacement for IPv4, with all the changes already done and fully supported in most major software packages, servers, routers, and switches? Enlighten me on why you are so obsessed with re-implementing IPv6 as IPv4+? -
/I'm not here to do your homework. Its not my fault you lack the understanding as to why people are openly mocking you here on your 'inventions'./ ----- Nobody is "mocking" besides IPv6 fans that are against any solution until IPv6 will be fully deployed which can take more 20 years from now.
Yes, because the all powerful IPv6 cartel is working with the Lumber Cartel to stifle your 'inventions' for 'solving' the world's IP and spam problems. -- Brielle Bruns The Summit Open Source Development Group http://www.sosdg.org / http://www.ahbl.org
Akamai already has 15% peak IPv6 traffic: https://blogs.akamai.com/2020/02/at-21-tbps-reaching-new-levels-of-ipv6-traf... Some internet service providers may have more than half of their traffic as IPv6. Some countries are now crossing more than 50% IPv6 availability: https://www.google.com/intl/en/ipv6/statistics.html Why do you think you can overtake the IPv6 train? Why would we want to abandon the work already done? ons. 13. maj 2020 20.27 skrev Elad Cohen <elad@netstyle.io>:
We will take your path, lets wait 20 years for IPv6 to be fully deployed. ------------------------------ *From:* NANOG <nanog-bounces@nanog.org> on behalf of Brielle < bruns@2mbit.com> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 13, 2020 9:16 PM *To:* NANOG list <nanog@nanog.org> *Subject:* Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election
On 5/13/2020 12:09 PM, Elad Cohen wrote:
----- /There's a fundamental lack of understanding from people on why you can't just 'bolt on' more addresses to IPv4. Data structures in memory, software APIs and syscalls, hex notations, subnetting, route determination and propigation with internet routing protocols like BGP, hardware CAM, among many other things./ ----- All of it will be resolved with a software update, and BGP will be updated to support IPv4+ with backward compatibility.
You mean what everyone's already implemented with IPv6? A complete overhaul/replacement for IPv4, with all the changes already done and fully supported in most major software packages, servers, routers, and switches?
Enlighten me on why you are so obsessed with re-implementing IPv6 as IPv4+?
-
/I'm not here to do your homework. Its not my fault you lack the understanding as to why people are openly mocking you here on your 'inventions'./ ----- Nobody is "mocking" besides IPv6 fans that are against any solution until IPv6 will be fully deployed which can take more 20 years from now.
Yes, because the all powerful IPv6 cartel is working with the Lumber Cartel to stifle your 'inventions' for 'solving' the world's IP and spam problems.
-- Brielle Bruns The Summit Open Source Development Group http://www.sosdg.org / http://www.ahbl.org
I suspect he’d want to slow adoption and push his frankestein IPv4 because any extension of IPv4 use makes the netblocks’s he’s obtained questionable ‘ownership’ of more valuable, in theory. From: NANOG <nanog-bounces+dhubbard=dino.hostasaurus.com@nanog.org> on behalf of Baldur Norddahl <baldur.norddahl@gmail.com> Date: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 at 5:02 PM To: "nanog@nanog.org" <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election Akamai already has 15% peak IPv6 traffic: https://blogs.akamai.com/2020/02/at-21-tbps-reaching-new-levels-of-ipv6-traf... Some internet service providers may have more than half of their traffic as IPv6. Some countries are now crossing more than 50% IPv6 availability: https://www.google.com/intl/en/ipv6/statistics.html Why do you think you can overtake the IPv6 train? Why would we want to abandon the work already done?
LOL so much heat and lies from IPv6 fans that don't want IPv4+ to be deployed. ________________________________ From: NANOG <nanog-bounces@nanog.org> on behalf of David Hubbard <dhubbard@dino.hostasaurus.com> Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2020 12:10 AM To: nanog@nanog.org <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election I suspect he’d want to slow adoption and push his frankestein IPv4 because any extension of IPv4 use makes the netblocks’s he’s obtained questionable ‘ownership’ of more valuable, in theory. From: NANOG <nanog-bounces+dhubbard=dino.hostasaurus.com@nanog.org> on behalf of Baldur Norddahl <baldur.norddahl@gmail.com> Date: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 at 5:02 PM To: "nanog@nanog.org" <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election Akamai already has 15% peak IPv6 traffic: https://blogs.akamai.com/2020/02/at-21-tbps-reaching-new-levels-of-ipv6-traf... Some internet service providers may have more than half of their traffic as IPv6. Some countries are now crossing more than 50% IPv6 availability: https://www.google.com/intl/en/ipv6/statistics.html Why do you think you can overtake the IPv6 train? Why would we want to abandon the work already done?
admins, can we can this worm can back and .. get back to work ? kthxbi. On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 5:29 PM Elad Cohen <elad@netstyle.io> wrote:
LOL so much heat and lies from IPv6 fans that don't want IPv4+ to be deployed. ________________________________ From: NANOG <nanog-bounces@nanog.org> on behalf of David Hubbard <dhubbard@dino.hostasaurus.com> Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2020 12:10 AM To: nanog@nanog.org <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election
I suspect he’d want to slow adoption and push his frankestein IPv4 because any extension of IPv4 use makes the netblocks’s he’s obtained questionable ‘ownership’ of more valuable, in theory.
From: NANOG <nanog-bounces+dhubbard=dino.hostasaurus.com@nanog.org> on behalf of Baldur Norddahl <baldur.norddahl@gmail.com> Date: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 at 5:02 PM To: "nanog@nanog.org" <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election
Akamai already has 15% peak IPv6 traffic:
https://blogs.akamai.com/2020/02/at-21-tbps-reaching-new-levels-of-ipv6-traf...
Some internet service providers may have more than half of their traffic as IPv6.
Some countries are now crossing more than 50% IPv6 availability:
https://www.google.com/intl/en/ipv6/statistics.html
Why do you think you can overtake the IPv6 train? Why would we want to abandon the work already done?
Another member of the illegal anonymous organization "The Spamhaus Project". ________________________________ From: Christopher Morrow <morrowc.lists@gmail.com> Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2020 12:34 AM To: Elad Cohen <elad@netstyle.io> Cc: David Hubbard <dhubbard@dino.hostasaurus.com>; nanog@nanog.org <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election admins, can we can this worm can back and .. get back to work ? kthxbi. On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 5:29 PM Elad Cohen <elad@netstyle.io> wrote:
LOL so much heat and lies from IPv6 fans that don't want IPv4+ to be deployed. ________________________________ From: NANOG <nanog-bounces@nanog.org> on behalf of David Hubbard <dhubbard@dino.hostasaurus.com> Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2020 12:10 AM To: nanog@nanog.org <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election
I suspect he’d want to slow adoption and push his frankestein IPv4 because any extension of IPv4 use makes the netblocks’s he’s obtained questionable ‘ownership’ of more valuable, in theory.
From: NANOG <nanog-bounces+dhubbard=dino.hostasaurus.com@nanog.org> on behalf of Baldur Norddahl <baldur.norddahl@gmail.com> Date: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 at 5:02 PM To: "nanog@nanog.org" <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election
Akamai already has 15% peak IPv6 traffic:
https://blogs.akamai.com/2020/02/at-21-tbps-reaching-new-levels-of-ipv6-traf...
Some internet service providers may have more than half of their traffic as IPv6.
Some countries are now crossing more than 50% IPv6 availability:
https://www.google.com/intl/en/ipv6/statistics.html
Why do you think you can overtake the IPv6 train? Why would we want to abandon the work already done?
On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 5:35 PM Elad Cohen <elad@netstyle.io> wrote:
Another member of the illegal anonymous organization "The Spamhaus Project".
wait, what?
________________________________ From: Christopher Morrow <morrowc.lists@gmail.com> Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2020 12:34 AM To: Elad Cohen <elad@netstyle.io> Cc: David Hubbard <dhubbard@dino.hostasaurus.com>; nanog@nanog.org <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election
admins, can we can this worm can back and .. get back to work ? kthxbi.
On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 5:29 PM Elad Cohen <elad@netstyle.io> wrote:
LOL so much heat and lies from IPv6 fans that don't want IPv4+ to be deployed. ________________________________ From: NANOG <nanog-bounces@nanog.org> on behalf of David Hubbard <dhubbard@dino.hostasaurus.com> Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2020 12:10 AM To: nanog@nanog.org <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election
I suspect he’d want to slow adoption and push his frankestein IPv4 because any extension of IPv4 use makes the netblocks’s he’s obtained questionable ‘ownership’ of more valuable, in theory.
From: NANOG <nanog-bounces+dhubbard=dino.hostasaurus.com@nanog.org> on behalf of Baldur Norddahl <baldur.norddahl@gmail.com> Date: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 at 5:02 PM To: "nanog@nanog.org" <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election
Akamai already has 15% peak IPv6 traffic:
https://blogs.akamai.com/2020/02/at-21-tbps-reaching-new-levels-of-ipv6-traf...
Some internet service providers may have more than half of their traffic as IPv6.
Some countries are now crossing more than 50% IPv6 availability:
https://www.google.com/intl/en/ipv6/statistics.html
Why do you think you can overtake the IPv6 train? Why would we want to abandon the work already done?
Elad, It's those kinds of quick accusations that are damaging your reputation. To boil your three ideas down to a sentence, they're throwing pixie dust on top of existing technologies, instead of embracing the current feature set that has existed for decades. I mentioned BCP38 as a method around spoofed DDOS attacks on RIPE, and your IPv4+ idea is only keeping IPv4 around longer than it should. IPv6 has been around for decades, and battle tested with major companies like Digital Equipment Corporation in the 90's. If you want your ideas to gain any sort of foothold, write the code demonstrating a proof of concept with a couple of Linux VMs, showing off the client and router changes, and release it for the community to play around with. Actions speak louder than words. Just like RIPE votes, and listing your email address as spam. Have a good one. Ryan Hamel On May 13 2020, at 2:39 pm, Christopher Morrow <morrowc.lists@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 5:35 PM Elad Cohen <elad@netstyle.io> wrote:
Another member of the illegal anonymous organization "The Spamhaus Project".
wait, what?
________________________________ From: Christopher Morrow <morrowc.lists@gmail.com> Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2020 12:34 AM To: Elad Cohen <elad@netstyle.io> Cc: David Hubbard <dhubbard@dino.hostasaurus.com>; nanog@nanog.org <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election
admins, can we can this worm can back and .. get back to work ? kthxbi.
On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 5:29 PM Elad Cohen <elad@netstyle.io> wrote:
LOL so much heat and lies from IPv6 fans that don't want IPv4+ to be deployed. ________________________________ From: NANOG <nanog-bounces@nanog.org> on behalf of David Hubbard <dhubbard@dino.hostasaurus.com> Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2020 12:10 AM To: nanog@nanog.org <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election
I suspect he’d want to slow adoption and push his frankestein IPv4 because any extension of IPv4 use makes the netblocks’s he’s obtained questionable ‘ownership’ of more valuable, in theory.
From: NANOG <nanog-bounces+dhubbard=dino.hostasaurus.com@nanog.org> on behalf of Baldur Norddahl <baldur.norddahl@gmail.com> Date: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 at 5:02 PM To: "nanog@nanog.org" <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election
Akamai already has 15% peak IPv6 traffic:
https://blogs.akamai.com/2020/02/at-21-tbps-reaching-new-levels-of-ipv6-traf...
Some internet service providers may have more than half of their traffic as IPv6.
Some countries are now crossing more than 50% IPv6 availability:
https://www.google.com/intl/en/ipv6/statistics.html
Why do you think you can overtake the IPv6 train? Why would we want to abandon the work already done?
Respectfully: How can something be deployed if it doesn't even exist? I think we'd all be better off focusing on deploying real things with real implementations--you know, like IPv6... And not debating the merits of a protocol that doesn't exist except in.. Umm.. "theory". And I'll save you some research. I'm not part of some ipv6 spamhaus illuminati group. Kinda wish I was--I've always wanted to be part of an exclusive club. -Neil On May 13, 2020, 17:31, at 17:31, Elad Cohen <elad@netstyle.io> wrote:
LOL so much heat and lies from IPv6 fans that don't want IPv4+ to be deployed. ________________________________ From: NANOG <nanog-bounces@nanog.org> on behalf of David Hubbard <dhubbard@dino.hostasaurus.com> Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2020 12:10 AM To: nanog@nanog.org <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election
I suspect he’d want to slow adoption and push his frankestein IPv4 because any extension of IPv4 use makes the netblocks’s he’s obtained questionable ‘ownership’ of more valuable, in theory.
From: NANOG <nanog-bounces+dhubbard=dino.hostasaurus.com@nanog.org> on behalf of Baldur Norddahl <baldur.norddahl@gmail.com> Date: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 at 5:02 PM To: "nanog@nanog.org" <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election
Akamai already has 15% peak IPv6 traffic:
https://blogs.akamai.com/2020/02/at-21-tbps-reaching-new-levels-of-ipv6-traf...
Some internet service providers may have more than half of their traffic as IPv6.
Some countries are now crossing more than 50% IPv6 availability:
https://www.google.com/intl/en/ipv6/statistics.html
Why do you think you can overtake the IPv6 train? Why would we want to abandon the work already done?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAeqVGP-GPM -- -Barry Shein Software Tool & Die | bzs@TheWorld.com | http://www.TheWorld.com Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: +1 617-STD-WRLD | 800-THE-WRLD The World: Since 1989 | A Public Information Utility | *oo*
On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 10:57 AM Brielle <bruns@2mbit.com> wrote:
There's a fundamental lack of understanding from people on why you can't just 'bolt on' more addresses to IPv4. Data structures in memory, software APIs and syscalls, hex notations, subnetting, route determination and propigation with internet routing protocols like BGP, hardware CAM, among many other things.
Hi Brielle, http://bill.herrin.us/network/ipxl.html Someone said much as you did way back in 2007. It bugged me, this defeatism that said there was no way IPv4 could have been incrementally updated to support more addresses, that a greenfield protocol was the only path forward. So I designed an upgrade factoring in the need for pre- and post-upgrade stacks and networks to interoperate over a period of years. It took all of 4 printed pages. It's clear IPv6 is the path forward. It was clear in 2007. But don't for a second believe that's because IPv4 could not have been upgraded in place. That's a failure of imagination. I now return you to the scheduled brawl between Guilmette and Cohen. Regards, Bill Herrin -- William Herrin bill@herrin.us https://bill.herrin.us/
On 5/13/2020 12:42 PM, William Herrin wrote:
Hi Brielle,
http://bill.herrin.us/network/ipxl.html
Someone said much as you did way back in 2007. It bugged me, this defeatism that said there was no way IPv4 could have been incrementally updated to support more addresses, that a greenfield protocol was the only path forward. So I designed an upgrade factoring in the need for pre- and post-upgrade stacks and networks to interoperate over a period of years. It took all of 4 printed pages.
It's clear IPv6 is the path forward. It was clear in 2007. But don't for a second believe that's because IPv4 could not have been upgraded in place. That's a failure of imagination.
Interesting, thank you for the insight and some detailed breakdown. I'm actually really glad someone with some more experience jumped in with some actual background in this effort. One thing that cropped up in my mind from the late 90s and AFAIK still goes on today - isn't it pretty well documented that more then a small number of 'professional' firewalls have a habit of just outright discarding/rejecting/barfing on packets with options in them that they don't recognize? IE: PMTU/ECN blackhole redux. Of course since IPx1 requires some stack upgrades, so that point is moot really. Sigh. Back to the original thought that its just easier to go IPv6 then try to 'fix' whats already out there. -- Brielle Bruns The Summit Open Source Development Group http://www.sosdg.org / http://www.ahbl.org
LOL funny seeing you changing your mind by 180 degrees when someone you know in the community writing to you the exact same thing. Grow a backbone please. ________________________________ From: NANOG <nanog-bounces@nanog.org> on behalf of Brielle <bruns@2mbit.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 9:57 PM To: NANOG list <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election On 5/13/2020 12:42 PM, William Herrin wrote:
Hi Brielle,
http://bill.herrin.us/network/ipxl.html
Someone said much as you did way back in 2007. It bugged me, this defeatism that said there was no way IPv4 could have been incrementally updated to support more addresses, that a greenfield protocol was the only path forward. So I designed an upgrade factoring in the need for pre- and post-upgrade stacks and networks to interoperate over a period of years. It took all of 4 printed pages.
It's clear IPv6 is the path forward. It was clear in 2007. But don't for a second believe that's because IPv4 could not have been upgraded in place. That's a failure of imagination.
Interesting, thank you for the insight and some detailed breakdown. I'm actually really glad someone with some more experience jumped in with some actual background in this effort. One thing that cropped up in my mind from the late 90s and AFAIK still goes on today - isn't it pretty well documented that more then a small number of 'professional' firewalls have a habit of just outright discarding/rejecting/barfing on packets with options in them that they don't recognize? IE: PMTU/ECN blackhole redux. Of course since IPx1 requires some stack upgrades, so that point is moot really. Sigh. Back to the original thought that its just easier to go IPv6 then try to 'fix' whats already out there. -- Brielle Bruns The Summit Open Source Development Group http://www.sosdg.org / http://www.ahbl.org
On Wed, 13 May 2020, Elad Cohen wrote:
LOL funny seeing you changing your mind by 180 degrees when someone you know in the community writing to you the exact same thing.
"In addition, the sockets API should be extended to support IPxl with a new socket domain PF_IPXL which is identical to PF_INET in every respect save that the IP addresses are 8 bytes long instead of 4." Do you realise that this means you're requiring changing *every* socket-speaking application in the world? It's taken us decades to get applications to use the new struct to support IPv6+IPv4, resetting the timer back to 0 and starting over does not help deployment. It just kicks it another 20 years down the line. You're just inventing yet another incompatible standard and you have to touch everything, DHCP, DNS all applications etc. -- Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike@swm.pp.se
---- Do you realise that this means you're requiring changing *every* socket-speaking application in the world? ---- Every internet host that will want to speak IPv4+ , will have an update (for example through the operating systems automatic updates mechanisms) ---- It's taken us decades to get applications to use the new struct to support IPv6+IPv4, resetting the timer back to 0 and starting over does not help deployment. It just kicks it another 20 years down the line. ---- I wrote about the usage of a roundtable in order to implement everything fast (the roundtable will include one representative from each of the operating system vendors, one representative from each of the routing equipment manufacturers and one representative from each of the 5 RIR's), if I will be elected to RIPE board I will do everything in my power so this roundtable will be formed fast and that the needed updates will be created fast. Each party in the roundtable will receive an amount of free IPv4 addresses from the new IPv4+ pool, and each ASN will also receive for example a /21 , home-routers and home-modems will not be needed to be updated and they will support IPv4+. ---- You're just inventing yet another incompatible standard and you have to touch everything, DHCP, DNS all applications etc. ---- There is an adjustment to IPv4+ that the format of addresses will not be [0-655365].[0-655365]v4 - but it will be [256-511].[0-255].[0-255].[0-255] So IPv4+ addresses will be in the format of IPv4 addresses - it will end-user adoption of IPv4+ easier and also integration in the applicative layer easier (as application developers will only need to set that the first number can be higher instead to support a new format of [0-655365].[0-655365]v4 ) ________________________________ From: Mikael Abrahamsson <swmike@swm.pp.se> Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 10:22 PM To: Elad Cohen <elad@netstyle.io> Cc: Brielle <bruns@2mbit.com>; NANOG list <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election On Wed, 13 May 2020, Elad Cohen wrote:
LOL funny seeing you changing your mind by 180 degrees when someone you know in the community writing to you the exact same thing.
"In addition, the sockets API should be extended to support IPxl with a new socket domain PF_IPXL which is identical to PF_INET in every respect save that the IP addresses are 8 bytes long instead of 4." Do you realise that this means you're requiring changing *every* socket-speaking application in the world? It's taken us decades to get applications to use the new struct to support IPv6+IPv4, resetting the timer back to 0 and starting over does not help deployment. It just kicks it another 20 years down the line. You're just inventing yet another incompatible standard and you have to touch everything, DHCP, DNS all applications etc. -- Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike@swm.pp.se
It just keeps getting dumber by the minute. My home ISP hasn’t even updated firmware to one that supports v6, but yeah, they’re surely going to update to your Frankenstein ipv4 because you’re going to give them a taste of addresses from the nightmare pool that will reach even less of the internet than v6. From: NANOG <nanog-bounces@nanog.org> on behalf of Elad Cohen <elad@netstyle.io> Date: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 at 3:41 PM To: Mikael Abrahamsson <swmike@swm.pp.se> Cc: NANOG list <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election ---- Do you realise that this means you're requiring changing *every* socket-speaking application in the world? ---- Every internet host that will want to speak IPv4+ , will have an update (for example through the operating systems automatic updates mechanisms) ---- It's taken us decades to get applications to use the new struct to support IPv6+IPv4, resetting the timer back to 0 and starting over does not help deployment. It just kicks it another 20 years down the line. ---- I wrote about the usage of a roundtable in order to implement everything fast (the roundtable will include one representative from each of the operating system vendors, one representative from each of the routing equipment manufacturers and one representative from each of the 5 RIR's), if I will be elected to RIPE board I will do everything in my power so this roundtable will be formed fast and that the needed updates will be created fast. Each party in the roundtable will receive an amount of free IPv4 addresses from the new IPv4+ pool, and each ASN will also receive for example a /21 , home-routers and home-modems will not be needed to be updated and they will support IPv4+. ---- You're just inventing yet another incompatible standard and you have to touch everything, DHCP, DNS all applications etc. ---- There is an adjustment to IPv4+ that the format of addresses will not be [0-655365].[0-655365]v4 - but it will be [256-511].[0-255].[0-255].[0-255] So IPv4+ addresses will be in the format of IPv4 addresses - it will end-user adoption of IPv4+ easier and also integration in the applicative layer easier (as application developers will only need to set that the first number can be higher instead to support a new format of [0-655365].[0-655365]v4 ) ________________________________ From: Mikael Abrahamsson <swmike@swm.pp.se> Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 10:22 PM To: Elad Cohen <elad@netstyle.io> Cc: Brielle <bruns@2mbit.com>; NANOG list <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election On Wed, 13 May 2020, Elad Cohen wrote:
LOL funny seeing you changing your mind by 180 degrees when someone you know in the community writing to you the exact same thing.
"In addition, the sockets API should be extended to support IPxl with a new socket domain PF_IPXL which is identical to PF_INET in every respect save that the IP addresses are 8 bytes long instead of 4." Do you realise that this means you're requiring changing *every* socket-speaking application in the world? It's taken us decades to get applications to use the new struct to support IPv6+IPv4, resetting the timer back to 0 and starting over does not help deployment. It just kicks it another 20 years down the line. You're just inventing yet another incompatible standard and you have to touch everything, DHCP, DNS all applications etc. -- Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike@swm.pp.se
Your home ISP will support IPv4+ packets exactly as it is now, because IPv4+ is based on the exact current IPv4 packet format. With the needed roundtable - IPv4+ will be deployed in the whole internet and fast. ________________________________ From: NANOG <nanog-bounces@nanog.org> on behalf of David Hubbard <dhubbard@dino.hostasaurus.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 10:44 PM To: NANOG list <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election It just keeps getting dumber by the minute. My home ISP hasn’t even updated firmware to one that supports v6, but yeah, they’re surely going to update to your Frankenstein ipv4 because you’re going to give them a taste of addresses from the nightmare pool that will reach even less of the internet than v6. From: NANOG <nanog-bounces@nanog.org> on behalf of Elad Cohen <elad@netstyle.io> Date: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 at 3:41 PM To: Mikael Abrahamsson <swmike@swm.pp.se> Cc: NANOG list <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election ---- Do you realise that this means you're requiring changing *every* socket-speaking application in the world? ---- Every internet host that will want to speak IPv4+ , will have an update (for example through the operating systems automatic updates mechanisms) ---- It's taken us decades to get applications to use the new struct to support IPv6+IPv4, resetting the timer back to 0 and starting over does not help deployment. It just kicks it another 20 years down the line. ---- I wrote about the usage of a roundtable in order to implement everything fast (the roundtable will include one representative from each of the operating system vendors, one representative from each of the routing equipment manufacturers and one representative from each of the 5 RIR's), if I will be elected to RIPE board I will do everything in my power so this roundtable will be formed fast and that the needed updates will be created fast. Each party in the roundtable will receive an amount of free IPv4 addresses from the new IPv4+ pool, and each ASN will also receive for example a /21 , home-routers and home-modems will not be needed to be updated and they will support IPv4+. ---- You're just inventing yet another incompatible standard and you have to touch everything, DHCP, DNS all applications etc. ---- There is an adjustment to IPv4+ that the format of addresses will not be [0-655365].[0-655365]v4 - but it will be [256-511].[0-255].[0-255].[0-255] So IPv4+ addresses will be in the format of IPv4 addresses - it will end-user adoption of IPv4+ easier and also integration in the applicative layer easier (as application developers will only need to set that the first number can be higher instead to support a new format of [0-655365].[0-655365]v4 ) ________________________________ From: Mikael Abrahamsson <swmike@swm.pp.se> Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 10:22 PM To: Elad Cohen <elad@netstyle.io> Cc: Brielle <bruns@2mbit.com>; NANOG list <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election On Wed, 13 May 2020, Elad Cohen wrote:
LOL funny seeing you changing your mind by 180 degrees when someone you know in the community writing to you the exact same thing.
"In addition, the sockets API should be extended to support IPxl with a new socket domain PF_IPXL which is identical to PF_INET in every respect save that the IP addresses are 8 bytes long instead of 4." Do you realise that this means you're requiring changing *every* socket-speaking application in the world? It's taken us decades to get applications to use the new struct to support IPv6+IPv4, resetting the timer back to 0 and starting over does not help deployment. It just kicks it another 20 years down the line. You're just inventing yet another incompatible standard and you have to touch everything, DHCP, DNS all applications etc. -- Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike@swm.pp.se
It is curious how many times we have heard that, not only heard in NANOG and other NOGs, but also in IETF, even debated in long thread with several IDs, and for some strange reason, we all missed that or maybe because nobody got the running code to demonstrate his/her point in a realistic way? Instead, IPv6 is working for everyone that invest just a little bit of effort, in the only credible long-term solution. Of course, like in any aspect of our life, always some people will believe that they can keep using legacy tools, I still see some people using abacus instead of the “calc.app”, it is nice, just for fun, but is not smart neither productive. It is matter of what the world needs. Regards, Jordi @jordipalet El 13/5/20 21:58, "NANOG en nombre de Elad Cohen" <nanog-bounces@nanog.org en nombre de elad@netstyle.io> escribió: Your home ISP will support IPv4+ packets exactly as it is now, because IPv4+ is based on the exact current IPv4 packet format. With the needed roundtable - IPv4+ will be deployed in the whole internet and fast. From: NANOG <nanog-bounces@nanog.org> on behalf of David Hubbard <dhubbard@dino.hostasaurus.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 10:44 PM To: NANOG list <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election It just keeps getting dumber by the minute. My home ISP hasn’t even updated firmware to one that supports v6, but yeah, they’re surely going to update to your Frankenstein ipv4 because you’re going to give them a taste of addresses from the nightmare pool that will reach even less of the internet than v6. From: NANOG <nanog-bounces@nanog.org> on behalf of Elad Cohen <elad@netstyle.io> Date: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 at 3:41 PM To: Mikael Abrahamsson <swmike@swm.pp.se> Cc: NANOG list <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election ---- Do you realise that this means you're requiring changing *every* socket-speaking application in the world? ---- Every internet host that will want to speak IPv4+ , will have an update (for example through the operating systems automatic updates mechanisms) ---- It's taken us decades to get applications to use the new struct to support IPv6+IPv4, resetting the timer back to 0 and starting over does not help deployment. It just kicks it another 20 years down the line. ---- I wrote about the usage of a roundtable in order to implement everything fast (the roundtable will include one representative from each of the operating system vendors, one representative from each of the routing equipment manufacturers and one representative from each of the 5 RIR's), if I will be elected to RIPE board I will do everything in my power so this roundtable will be formed fast and that the needed updates will be created fast. Each party in the roundtable will receive an amount of free IPv4 addresses from the new IPv4+ pool, and each ASN will also receive for example a /21 , home-routers and home-modems will not be needed to be updated and they will support IPv4+. ---- You're just inventing yet another incompatible standard and you have to touch everything, DHCP, DNS all applications etc. ---- There is an adjustment to IPv4+ that the format of addresses will not be [0-655365].[0-655365]v4 - but it will be [256-511].[0-255].[0-255].[0-255] So IPv4+ addresses will be in the format of IPv4 addresses - it will end-user adoption of IPv4+ easier and also integration in the applicative layer easier (as application developers will only need to set that the first number can be higher instead to support a new format of [0-655365].[0-655365]v4 ) From: Mikael Abrahamsson <swmike@swm.pp.se> Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 10:22 PM To: Elad Cohen <elad@netstyle.io> Cc: Brielle <bruns@2mbit.com>; NANOG list <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election On Wed, 13 May 2020, Elad Cohen wrote:
LOL funny seeing you changing your mind by 180 degrees when someone you know in the community writing to you the exact same thing.
"In addition, the sockets API should be extended to support IPxl with a new socket domain PF_IPXL which is identical to PF_INET in every respect save that the IP addresses are 8 bytes long instead of 4." Do you realise that this means you're requiring changing *every* socket-speaking application in the world? It's taken us decades to get applications to use the new struct to support IPv6+IPv4, resetting the timer back to 0 and starting over does not help deployment. It just kicks it another 20 years down the line. You're just inventing yet another incompatible standard and you have to touch everything, DHCP, DNS all applications etc. -- Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike@swm.pp.se ********************************************** IPv4 is over Are you ready for the new Internet ? http://www.theipv6company.com The IPv6 Company This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it.
Regards, Jordi "The IPv6 Company" ________________________________ From: NANOG <nanog-bounces@nanog.org> on behalf of JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via NANOG <nanog@nanog.org> Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 11:17 PM To: NANOG list <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election It is curious how many times we have heard that, not only heard in NANOG and other NOGs, but also in IETF, even debated in long thread with several IDs, and for some strange reason, we all missed that or maybe because nobody got the running code to demonstrate his/her point in a realistic way? Instead, IPv6 is working for everyone that invest just a little bit of effort, in the only credible long-term solution. Of course, like in any aspect of our life, always some people will believe that they can keep using legacy tools, I still see some people using abacus instead of the “calc.app”, it is nice, just for fun, but is not smart neither productive. It is matter of what the world needs. Regards, Jordi @jordipalet El 13/5/20 21:58, "NANOG en nombre de Elad Cohen" <nanog-bounces@nanog.org<mailto:nanog-bounces@nanog.org> en nombre de elad@netstyle.io<mailto:elad@netstyle.io>> escribió: Your home ISP will support IPv4+ packets exactly as it is now, because IPv4+ is based on the exact current IPv4 packet format. With the needed roundtable - IPv4+ will be deployed in the whole internet and fast. ________________________________ From: NANOG <nanog-bounces@nanog.org> on behalf of David Hubbard <dhubbard@dino.hostasaurus.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 10:44 PM To: NANOG list <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election It just keeps getting dumber by the minute. My home ISP hasn’t even updated firmware to one that supports v6, but yeah, they’re surely going to update to your Frankenstein ipv4 because you’re going to give them a taste of addresses from the nightmare pool that will reach even less of the internet than v6. From: NANOG <nanog-bounces@nanog.org> on behalf of Elad Cohen <elad@netstyle.io> Date: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 at 3:41 PM To: Mikael Abrahamsson <swmike@swm.pp.se> Cc: NANOG list <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election ---- Do you realise that this means you're requiring changing *every* socket-speaking application in the world? ---- Every internet host that will want to speak IPv4+ , will have an update (for example through the operating systems automatic updates mechanisms) ---- It's taken us decades to get applications to use the new struct to support IPv6+IPv4, resetting the timer back to 0 and starting over does not help deployment. It just kicks it another 20 years down the line. ---- I wrote about the usage of a roundtable in order to implement everything fast (the roundtable will include one representative from each of the operating system vendors, one representative from each of the routing equipment manufacturers and one representative from each of the 5 RIR's), if I will be elected to RIPE board I will do everything in my power so this roundtable will be formed fast and that the needed updates will be created fast. Each party in the roundtable will receive an amount of free IPv4 addresses from the new IPv4+ pool, and each ASN will also receive for example a /21 , home-routers and home-modems will not be needed to be updated and they will support IPv4+. ---- You're just inventing yet another incompatible standard and you have to touch everything, DHCP, DNS all applications etc. ---- There is an adjustment to IPv4+ that the format of addresses will not be [0-655365].[0-655365]v4 - but it will be [256-511].[0-255].[0-255].[0-255] So IPv4+ addresses will be in the format of IPv4 addresses - it will end-user adoption of IPv4+ easier and also integration in the applicative layer easier (as application developers will only need to set that the first number can be higher instead to support a new format of [0-655365].[0-655365]v4 ) ________________________________ From: Mikael Abrahamsson <swmike@swm.pp.se> Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 10:22 PM To: Elad Cohen <elad@netstyle.io> Cc: Brielle <bruns@2mbit.com>; NANOG list <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election On Wed, 13 May 2020, Elad Cohen wrote:
LOL funny seeing you changing your mind by 180 degrees when someone you know in the community writing to you the exact same thing.
"In addition, the sockets API should be extended to support IPxl with a new socket domain PF_IPXL which is identical to PF_INET in every respect save that the IP addresses are 8 bytes long instead of 4." Do you realise that this means you're requiring changing *every* socket-speaking application in the world? It's taken us decades to get applications to use the new struct to support IPv6+IPv4, resetting the timer back to 0 and starting over does not help deployment. It just kicks it another 20 years down the line. You're just inventing yet another incompatible standard and you have to touch everything, DHCP, DNS all applications etc. -- Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike@swm.pp.se ********************************************** IPv4 is over Are you ready for the new Internet ? http://www.theipv6company.com The IPv6 Company This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it.
I’m a very transparent guy, nothing to hide about how much I do for the community, including voluntary work for many folks that need and want to implement IPv6. Probably that explains it! El 13/5/20 22:32, "Elad Cohen" <elad@netstyle.io> escribió: Regards, Jordi "The IPv6 Company" From: NANOG <nanog-bounces@nanog.org> on behalf of JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via NANOG <nanog@nanog.org> Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 11:17 PM To: NANOG list <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election It is curious how many times we have heard that, not only heard in NANOG and other NOGs, but also in IETF, even debated in long thread with several IDs, and for some strange reason, we all missed that or maybe because nobody got the running code to demonstrate his/her point in a realistic way? Instead, IPv6 is working for everyone that invest just a little bit of effort, in the only credible long-term solution. Of course, like in any aspect of our life, always some people will believe that they can keep using legacy tools, I still see some people using abacus instead of the “calc.app”, it is nice, just for fun, but is not smart neither productive. It is matter of what the world needs. Regards, Jordi @jordipalet El 13/5/20 21:58, "NANOG en nombre de Elad Cohen" <nanog-bounces@nanog.org en nombre de elad@netstyle.io> escribió: Your home ISP will support IPv4+ packets exactly as it is now, because IPv4+ is based on the exact current IPv4 packet format. With the needed roundtable - IPv4+ will be deployed in the whole internet and fast. From: NANOG <nanog-bounces@nanog.org> on behalf of David Hubbard <dhubbard@dino.hostasaurus.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 10:44 PM To: NANOG list <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election It just keeps getting dumber by the minute. My home ISP hasn’t even updated firmware to one that supports v6, but yeah, they’re surely going to update to your Frankenstein ipv4 because you’re going to give them a taste of addresses from the nightmare pool that will reach even less of the internet than v6. From: NANOG <nanog-bounces@nanog.org> on behalf of Elad Cohen <elad@netstyle.io> Date: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 at 3:41 PM To: Mikael Abrahamsson <swmike@swm.pp.se> Cc: NANOG list <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election ---- Do you realise that this means you're requiring changing *every* socket-speaking application in the world? ---- Every internet host that will want to speak IPv4+ , will have an update (for example through the operating systems automatic updates mechanisms) ---- It's taken us decades to get applications to use the new struct to support IPv6+IPv4, resetting the timer back to 0 and starting over does not help deployment. It just kicks it another 20 years down the line. ---- I wrote about the usage of a roundtable in order to implement everything fast (the roundtable will include one representative from each of the operating system vendors, one representative from each of the routing equipment manufacturers and one representative from each of the 5 RIR's), if I will be elected to RIPE board I will do everything in my power so this roundtable will be formed fast and that the needed updates will be created fast. Each party in the roundtable will receive an amount of free IPv4 addresses from the new IPv4+ pool, and each ASN will also receive for example a /21 , home-routers and home-modems will not be needed to be updated and they will support IPv4+. ---- You're just inventing yet another incompatible standard and you have to touch everything, DHCP, DNS all applications etc. ---- There is an adjustment to IPv4+ that the format of addresses will not be [0-655365].[0-655365]v4 - but it will be [256-511].[0-255].[0-255].[0-255] So IPv4+ addresses will be in the format of IPv4 addresses - it will end-user adoption of IPv4+ easier and also integration in the applicative layer easier (as application developers will only need to set that the first number can be higher instead to support a new format of [0-655365].[0-655365]v4 ) From: Mikael Abrahamsson <swmike@swm.pp.se> Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 10:22 PM To: Elad Cohen <elad@netstyle.io> Cc: Brielle <bruns@2mbit.com>; NANOG list <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election On Wed, 13 May 2020, Elad Cohen wrote:
LOL funny seeing you changing your mind by 180 degrees when someone you know in the community writing to you the exact same thing.
"In addition, the sockets API should be extended to support IPxl with a new socket domain PF_IPXL which is identical to PF_INET in every respect save that the IP addresses are 8 bytes long instead of 4." Do you realise that this means you're requiring changing *every* socket-speaking application in the world? It's taken us decades to get applications to use the new struct to support IPv6+IPv4, resetting the timer back to 0 and starting over does not help deployment. It just kicks it another 20 years down the line. You're just inventing yet another incompatible standard and you have to touch everything, DHCP, DNS all applications etc. -- Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike@swm.pp.se ********************************************** IPv4 is over Are you ready for the new Internet ? http://www.theipv6company.com The IPv6 Company This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it. ********************************************** IPv4 is over Are you ready for the new Internet ? http://www.theipv6company.com The IPv6 Company This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it.
I'll vote for you! ________________________________ From: NANOG <nanog-bounces@nanog.org> on behalf of JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via NANOG <nanog@nanog.org> Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 11:46 PM To: NANOG list <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election I’m a very transparent guy, nothing to hide about how much I do for the community, including voluntary work for many folks that need and want to implement IPv6. Probably that explains it! El 13/5/20 22:32, "Elad Cohen" <elad@netstyle.io<mailto:elad@netstyle.io>> escribió: Regards, Jordi "The IPv6 Company" ________________________________ From: NANOG <nanog-bounces@nanog.org> on behalf of JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via NANOG <nanog@nanog.org> Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 11:17 PM To: NANOG list <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election It is curious how many times we have heard that, not only heard in NANOG and other NOGs, but also in IETF, even debated in long thread with several IDs, and for some strange reason, we all missed that or maybe because nobody got the running code to demonstrate his/her point in a realistic way? Instead, IPv6 is working for everyone that invest just a little bit of effort, in the only credible long-term solution. Of course, like in any aspect of our life, always some people will believe that they can keep using legacy tools, I still see some people using abacus instead of the “calc.app”, it is nice, just for fun, but is not smart neither productive. It is matter of what the world needs. Regards, Jordi @jordipalet El 13/5/20 21:58, "NANOG en nombre de Elad Cohen" <nanog-bounces@nanog.org<mailto:nanog-bounces@nanog.org> en nombre de elad@netstyle.io<mailto:elad@netstyle.io>> escribió: Your home ISP will support IPv4+ packets exactly as it is now, because IPv4+ is based on the exact current IPv4 packet format. With the needed roundtable - IPv4+ will be deployed in the whole internet and fast. ________________________________ From: NANOG <nanog-bounces@nanog.org> on behalf of David Hubbard <dhubbard@dino.hostasaurus.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 10:44 PM To: NANOG list <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election It just keeps getting dumber by the minute. My home ISP hasn’t even updated firmware to one that supports v6, but yeah, they’re surely going to update to your Frankenstein ipv4 because you’re going to give them a taste of addresses from the nightmare pool that will reach even less of the internet than v6. From: NANOG <nanog-bounces@nanog.org> on behalf of Elad Cohen <elad@netstyle.io> Date: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 at 3:41 PM To: Mikael Abrahamsson <swmike@swm.pp.se> Cc: NANOG list <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election ---- Do you realise that this means you're requiring changing *every* socket-speaking application in the world? ---- Every internet host that will want to speak IPv4+ , will have an update (for example through the operating systems automatic updates mechanisms) ---- It's taken us decades to get applications to use the new struct to support IPv6+IPv4, resetting the timer back to 0 and starting over does not help deployment. It just kicks it another 20 years down the line. ---- I wrote about the usage of a roundtable in order to implement everything fast (the roundtable will include one representative from each of the operating system vendors, one representative from each of the routing equipment manufacturers and one representative from each of the 5 RIR's), if I will be elected to RIPE board I will do everything in my power so this roundtable will be formed fast and that the needed updates will be created fast. Each party in the roundtable will receive an amount of free IPv4 addresses from the new IPv4+ pool, and each ASN will also receive for example a /21 , home-routers and home-modems will not be needed to be updated and they will support IPv4+. ---- You're just inventing yet another incompatible standard and you have to touch everything, DHCP, DNS all applications etc. ---- There is an adjustment to IPv4+ that the format of addresses will not be [0-655365].[0-655365]v4 - but it will be [256-511].[0-255].[0-255].[0-255] So IPv4+ addresses will be in the format of IPv4 addresses - it will end-user adoption of IPv4+ easier and also integration in the applicative layer easier (as application developers will only need to set that the first number can be higher instead to support a new format of [0-655365].[0-655365]v4 ) ________________________________ From: Mikael Abrahamsson <swmike@swm.pp.se> Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 10:22 PM To: Elad Cohen <elad@netstyle.io> Cc: Brielle <bruns@2mbit.com>; NANOG list <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election On Wed, 13 May 2020, Elad Cohen wrote:
LOL funny seeing you changing your mind by 180 degrees when someone you know in the community writing to you the exact same thing.
"In addition, the sockets API should be extended to support IPxl with a new socket domain PF_IPXL which is identical to PF_INET in every respect save that the IP addresses are 8 bytes long instead of 4." Do you realise that this means you're requiring changing *every* socket-speaking application in the world? It's taken us decades to get applications to use the new struct to support IPv6+IPv4, resetting the timer back to 0 and starting over does not help deployment. It just kicks it another 20 years down the line. You're just inventing yet another incompatible standard and you have to touch everything, DHCP, DNS all applications etc. -- Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike@swm.pp.se ********************************************** IPv4 is over Are you ready for the new Internet ? http://www.theipv6company.com The IPv6 Company This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it. ********************************************** IPv4 is over Are you ready for the new Internet ? http://www.theipv6company.com The IPv6 Company This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it.
Wait, is there supposed to be some sort of conspiracy? I'll bet that Steve Deering couldn't be happier being as far away from this as possible on some deserted island off the coast of BC. Mike On 5/13/20 1:46 PM, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via NANOG wrote:
I’m a very transparent guy, nothing to hide about how much I do for the community, including voluntary work for many folks that need and want to implement IPv6.
Probably that explains it!
El 13/5/20 22:32, "Elad Cohen" <elad@netstyle.io <mailto:elad@netstyle.io>> escribió:
Regards,
Jordi "The IPv6 Company"
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:*NANOG <nanog-bounces@nanog.org> on behalf of JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via NANOG <nanog@nanog.org> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 13, 2020 11:17 PM *To:* NANOG list <nanog@nanog.org> *Subject:* Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election
It is curious how many times we have heard that, not only heard in NANOG and other NOGs, but also in IETF, even debated in long thread with several IDs, and for some strange reason, we all missed that or maybe because nobody got the running code to demonstrate his/her point in a realistic way?
Instead, IPv6 is working for everyone that invest just a little bit of effort, in the only credible long-term solution.
Of course, like in any aspect of our life, always some people will believe that they can keep using legacy tools, I still see some people using abacus instead of the “calc.app”, it is nice, just for fun, but is not smart neither productive.
It is matter of what the world needs.
Regards,
Jordi
@jordipalet
El 13/5/20 21:58, "NANOG en nombre de Elad Cohen" <nanog-bounces@nanog.org <mailto:nanog-bounces@nanog.org> en nombre de elad@netstyle.io <mailto:elad@netstyle.io>> escribió:
Your home ISP will support IPv4+ packets exactly as it is now, because IPv4+ is based on the exact current IPv4 packet format. With the needed roundtable - IPv4+ will be deployed in the whole internet and fast.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:*NANOG <nanog-bounces@nanog.org> on behalf of David Hubbard <dhubbard@dino.hostasaurus.com> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 13, 2020 10:44 PM *To:* NANOG list <nanog@nanog.org> *Subject:* Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election
It just keeps getting dumber by the minute. My home ISP hasn’t even updated firmware to one that supports v6, but yeah, they’re surely going to update to your Frankenstein ipv4 because you’re going to give them a taste of addresses from the nightmare pool that will reach even less of the internet than v6.
*From: *NANOG <nanog-bounces@nanog.org> on behalf of Elad Cohen <elad@netstyle.io> *Date: *Wednesday, May 13, 2020 at 3:41 PM *To: *Mikael Abrahamsson <swmike@swm.pp.se> *Cc: *NANOG list <nanog@nanog.org> *Subject: *Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election
----
/Do you realise that this means you're requiring changing *every* socket-speaking application in the world?/
----
Every internet host that will want to speak IPv4+ , will have an update (for example through the operating systems automatic updates mechanisms)
----
/It's taken us decades to get applications to use the new struct to support IPv6+IPv4, resetting the timer back to 0 and starting over does not help deployment. It just kicks it another 20 years down the line./
----
I wrote about the usage of a roundtable in order to implement everything fast (the roundtable will include one representative from each of the operating system vendors, one representative from each of the routing equipment manufacturers and one representative from each of the 5 RIR's), if I will be elected to RIPE board I will do everything in my power so this roundtable will be formed fast and that the needed updates will be created fast. Each party in the roundtable will receive an amount of free IPv4 addresses from the new IPv4+ pool, and each ASN will also receive for example a /21 , home-routers and home-modems will not be needed to be updated and they will support IPv4+.
----
/You're just inventing yet another incompatible standard and you have to touch everything, DHCP, DNS all applications etc./
----
There is an adjustment to IPv4+ that the format of addresses will not be [0-655365].[0-655365]v4 - but it will be [256-511].[0-255].[0-255].[0-255]
So IPv4+ addresses will be in the format of IPv4 addresses - it will end-user adoption of IPv4+ easier and also integration in the applicative layer easier (as application developers will only need to set that the first number can be higher instead to support a new format of [0-655365].[0-655365]v4 )
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:*Mikael Abrahamsson <swmike@swm.pp.se> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 13, 2020 10:22 PM *To:* Elad Cohen <elad@netstyle.io> *Cc:* Brielle <bruns@2mbit.com>; NANOG list <nanog@nanog.org> *Subject:* Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election
On Wed, 13 May 2020, Elad Cohen wrote:
LOL funny seeing you changing your mind by 180 degrees when someone you know in the community writing to you the exact same thing.
"In addition, the sockets API should be extended to support IPxl with a new socket domain PF_IPXL which is identical to PF_INET in every respect save that the IP addresses are 8 bytes long instead of 4."
Do you realise that this means you're requiring changing *every* socket-speaking application in the world?
It's taken us decades to get applications to use the new struct to support IPv6+IPv4, resetting the timer back to 0 and starting over does not help deployment. It just kicks it another 20 years down the line.
You're just inventing yet another incompatible standard and you have to touch everything, DHCP, DNS all applications etc.
-- Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike@swm.pp.se
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This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it.
On Wed, 13 May 2020, Elad Cohen wrote:
---- Do you realise that this means you're requiring changing *every* socket-speaking application in the world? ---- Every internet host that will want to speak IPv4+ , will have an update (for example through the operating systems automatic updates mechanisms)
And every piece of software that works with / supports IPv4. When you've convinced Cisco, Juniper, Arista, and a few other router vendors to implement, and have submitted patches for the Linux kernel and userspace to implement IPv4+ (good luck with all that...and expect to be met with "Can we have some of what you've been smoking?"), then you can start pushing your next gen IP concepts. Until then, it's a total non-starter. If this person can't be removed from the list for wasting everyone's time, I suggest filing him right under Jim Flemming. :0 * ^From:.*(jfleming(@anet\.com|unety\.net)|ipv6nog@gmail\.com) /dev/null :0 * (^TO|^From:).*<elad@netstyle.io> /dev/null I'm out of this thread...I've already seen the above rule do its job. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Jon Lewis, MCP :) | I route StackPath, Sr. Neteng | therefore you are _________ http://www.lewis.org/~jlewis/pgp for PGP public key_________
On Wed, 13 May 2020 17:00:14 -0400, Jon Lewis said:
When you've convinced Cisco, Juniper, Arista, and a few other router vendors to implement, and have submitted patches for the Linux kernel and userspace to implement IPv4+ (good luck with all that...and expect to be met with "Can we have some of what you've been smoking?"), then you can start pushing your next gen IP concepts. Until then, it's a total non-starter.
At least when Dave Taht was pushing his "make the class E space usable", he had patches and testing for multiple systems. Turns out that not many systems check for 'first octet >= 240', but actually test for the class D space and using class E Just Works an amazing percent of the time.... (Yes, I was surprised myself, but deploying it is still very much in the "effort better spent deploying IPv6" territory...)
On May 13, 2020, at 12:36 , Elad Cohen <elad@netstyle.io> wrote:
---- Do you realise that this means you're requiring changing *every* socket-speaking application in the world? ---- Every internet host that will want to speak IPv4+ , will have an update (for example through the operating systems automatic updates mechanisms)
Uh… You left out Every Application on Every Host. How do all of those applications get updated (some fo which are in-house custom code whose maintainers long since retired). If you’re recoding all the applications, that’s pretty much the last hurdle left at this point for IPv6, so what’s the advantage of IPv4+ at this point? None whatsoever.
---- It's taken us decades to get applications to use the new struct to support IPv6+IPv4, resetting the timer back to 0 and starting over does not help deployment. It just kicks it another 20 years down the line. ---- I wrote about the usage of a roundtable in order to implement everything fast (the roundtable will include one representative from each of the operating system vendors, one representative from each of the routing equipment manufacturers and one representative from each of the 5 RIR's), if I will be elected to RIPE board I will do everything in my power so this roundtable will be formed fast and that the needed updates will be created fast. Each party in the roundtable will receive an amount of free IPv4 addresses from the new IPv4+ pool, and each ASN will also receive for example a /21 , home-routers and home-modems will not be needed to be updated and they will support IPv4+.
---- You're just inventing yet another incompatible standard and you have to touch everything, DHCP, DNS all applications etc. ---- There is an adjustment to IPv4+ that the format of addresses will not be [0-655365].[0-655365]v4 - but it will be [256-511].[0-255].[0-255].[0-255] So IPv4+ addresses will be in the format of IPv4 addresses - it will end-user adoption of IPv4+ easier and also integration in the applicative layer easier (as application developers will only need to set that the first number can be higher instead to support a new format of [0-655365].[0-655365]v4 )
So you want to retain all the need for NAT, continue to make end-users second-class citizens, avoid most of the gains and improvements of IPv6, while reducing the workload involved in adoption by (oh, wait, you’re increasing the workload required)… Where’s the win in this, exactly? Owen
From: Mikael Abrahamsson <swmike@swm.pp.se> Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 10:22 PM To: Elad Cohen <elad@netstyle.io> Cc: Brielle <bruns@2mbit.com>; NANOG list <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election
On Wed, 13 May 2020, Elad Cohen wrote:
LOL funny seeing you changing your mind by 180 degrees when someone you know in the community writing to you the exact same thing.
"In addition, the sockets API should be extended to support IPxl with a new socket domain PF_IPXL which is identical to PF_INET in every respect save that the IP addresses are 8 bytes long instead of 4."
Do you realise that this means you're requiring changing *every* socket-speaking application in the world?
It's taken us decades to get applications to use the new struct to support IPv6+IPv4, resetting the timer back to 0 and starting over does not help deployment. It just kicks it another 20 years down the line.
You're just inventing yet another incompatible standard and you have to touch everything, DHCP, DNS all applications etc.
-- Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike@swm.pp.se
You are right, more IPv4 addresses are not needed. ________________________________ From: Owen DeLong <owen@delong.com> Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2020 12:17 AM To: Elad Cohen <elad@netstyle.io> Cc: Mikael Abrahamsson <swmike@swm.pp.se>; NANOG list <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election On May 13, 2020, at 12:36 , Elad Cohen <elad@netstyle.io<mailto:elad@netstyle.io>> wrote: ---- Do you realise that this means you're requiring changing *every* socket-speaking application in the world? ---- Every internet host that will want to speak IPv4+ , will have an update (for example through the operating systems automatic updates mechanisms) Uh… You left out Every Application on Every Host. How do all of those applications get updated (some fo which are in-house custom code whose maintainers long since retired). If you’re recoding all the applications, that’s pretty much the last hurdle left at this point for IPv6, so what’s the advantage of IPv4+ at this point? None whatsoever. ---- It's taken us decades to get applications to use the new struct to support IPv6+IPv4, resetting the timer back to 0 and starting over does not help deployment. It just kicks it another 20 years down the line. ---- I wrote about the usage of a roundtable in order to implement everything fast (the roundtable will include one representative from each of the operating system vendors, one representative from each of the routing equipment manufacturers and one representative from each of the 5 RIR's), if I will be elected to RIPE board I will do everything in my power so this roundtable will be formed fast and that the needed updates will be created fast. Each party in the roundtable will receive an amount of free IPv4 addresses from the new IPv4+ pool, and each ASN will also receive for example a /21 , home-routers and home-modems will not be needed to be updated and they will support IPv4+. ---- You're just inventing yet another incompatible standard and you have to touch everything, DHCP, DNS all applications etc. ---- There is an adjustment to IPv4+ that the format of addresses will not be [0-655365].[0-655365]v4 - but it will be [256-511].[0-255].[0-255].[0-255] So IPv4+ addresses will be in the format of IPv4 addresses - it will end-user adoption of IPv4+ easier and also integration in the applicative layer easier (as application developers will only need to set that the first number can be higher instead to support a new format of [0-655365].[0-655365]v4 ) So you want to retain all the need for NAT, continue to make end-users second-class citizens, avoid most of the gains and improvements of IPv6, while reducing the workload involved in adoption by (oh, wait, you’re increasing the workload required)… Where’s the win in this, exactly? Owen ________________________________ From: Mikael Abrahamsson <swmike@swm.pp.se<mailto:swmike@swm.pp.se>> Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 10:22 PM To: Elad Cohen <elad@netstyle.io<mailto:elad@netstyle.io>> Cc: Brielle <bruns@2mbit.com<mailto:bruns@2mbit.com>>; NANOG list <nanog@nanog.org<mailto:nanog@nanog.org>> Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election On Wed, 13 May 2020, Elad Cohen wrote:
LOL funny seeing you changing your mind by 180 degrees when someone you know in the community writing to you the exact same thing.
"In addition, the sockets API should be extended to support IPxl with a new socket domain PF_IPXL which is identical to PF_INET in every respect save that the IP addresses are 8 bytes long instead of 4." Do you realise that this means you're requiring changing *every* socket-speaking application in the world? It's taken us decades to get applications to use the new struct to support IPv6+IPv4, resetting the timer back to 0 and starting over does not help deployment. It just kicks it another 20 years down the line. You're just inventing yet another incompatible standard and you have to touch everything, DHCP, DNS all applications etc. -- Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike@swm.pp.se<mailto:swmike@swm.pp.se>
On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 11:58 AM Brielle <bruns@2mbit.com> wrote:
One thing that cropped up in my mind from the late 90s and AFAIK still goes on today - isn't it pretty well documented that more then a small number of 'professional' firewalls have a habit of just outright discarding/rejecting/barfing on packets with options in them that they don't recognize?
Hi Brielle, That's not the half of it. Pull very hard on that thread and you'll quickly find your way in to the PMTUD problem. Path MTU discovery is the one place in the IP architecture which abandons the end-to-end principle. If an intermediate device fails to communicate to the sender that it's packet is too large for a hop, TCP between the sender and receiver fails. In practice this happens a lot and for many, many reasons. It's a very broken design. Operationally, we address this with all sorts of tricks like assuring the MTU on a link always supports a 1500 byte packet and rewriting the TCP MSS option in TCP SYN packets whenever we know it won't. None of these is a 100% solution so we still regularly field failure reports where a user successfully connects to a service but no data is transferred. Dig in to how Amazon AWS deals with EC2 instances with a 9000 byte MTU talking with the Internet some time. The MSS gets chopped in TCP and AWS generates a local frag needed message for UDP. Regards, Bill Herrin -- William Herrin bill@herrin.us https://bill.herrin.us/
On 5/13/20 2:42 PM, William Herrin wrote:
It's clear IPv6 is the path forward. It was clear in 2007. But don't for a second believe that's because IPv4 could not have been upgraded in place. That's a failure of imagination.
IPv6 is the way forward, it has the buy in and damn near critical mass. It dumps most of the extra crap in the headers we don't need anymore and the alignment makes it rather easy to process in hardware. This last part can't be over emphasized; it's not just rewriting software, it's hardware upgrades in most cases. Remember doing v6 on a 7206?* Punt it to the CPU and let it fall over at 1000 pps, right? I may have overstated the performance of that, but at the time we didn't care, 99.9% of all IPv6 was ping and traceroute. When it becomes the preferred delivery network for content, a software based router isn't going to cut it. -- Bryan Fields 727-409-1194 - Voice http://bryanfields.net *it's not a dig at cisco or any vendor. It was a thoroughly outdated router 10 years ago, and we can't expect it to have kept up. Merely illustrating a point.
On 5/13/2020 9:46 AM, Elad Cohen wrote:
Real identities behind "The Spamhaus Project": <snip> "Rob Shultz" - Rob McEwen (https://www.invaluement.com/)
Elad made this public allegation one of RIPE "Open Source Working Group" mailing lists, that he started here: https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/opensource-wg/2020-April.txt Here is my response to this allegation (new thread): https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/opensource-wg/2020-May/000093.html It went back and forth - you can read all the *drama* in that thread. Elad "doubled down" by publicly saying to me: /*"You are a complete liar. You are Rob Shultz."*/ I then put it to bed in the following thread: https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/opensource-wg/2020-May/000100.html If anyone has the SLIGHTEST SUSPICION that this might be true, PLEASE read those threads. He ended up being put on "moderated" status on the RIPE forum and was publicly reprimanded here: https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/opensource-wg/2020-May/000099.html He called me a "liar" - but has produced ZERO evidence to support his assertion - even though I "called his bluff" and asked him to "put up for shut up". He wouldn't "shut up" - but he also is not capable for "putting up" because the only evidence he has - is delusions that only exist inside his mind. I'm not a psychiatrist - but Elad is either very maliciously and unprofessionally lying to attack anti-spam people - or has a serious mental illness and needs psychiatric help. One or the other. Does this mean everything he says is factually wrong? I didn't claim that. I don't have the time nor inclination to fact check his long rants. But I do know that I'm not, nor have ever been, "Rob Schultz" and that I don't secretly work with/for Spamhaus in any way/shape/form. And I really don't like being called a "liar" on a public forum by someone. There are many out there who might run across posts like that and not bother to get the whole context, and might not know the real truth. So things like this can become an annoyance for many years to come. -- Rob McEwen https://www.invaluement.com
"The Spamhaus Project" is an illegal anonymous organization according to their own words in their own following presentation:
https://www.scribd.com/document/445894312/Spamhaus-Illegal-Private-Data-Viol... <https://www.scribd.com/document/445894312/Spamhaus-Illegal-Private-Data-Violation> This is the second time I’ve seen you make this claim in public. I see nothing in the slide deck you linked which claims they are illegal.
Nor does it say that they are anonymous, in fact, the CIO’s name (Richard D G Cox) is prominently displayed on the title slide. I seriously doubt that if they were truly the criminals you say they are, they would be permitted to name the FBI as a partner on their website: https://www.spamhaus.org/organization/ <https://www.spamhaus.org/organization/> I also sincerely doubt that if they were criminals, as you state, that they would be admitted as members, let alone receive awards from the National Cber-Forensics and Training Alliance. Indeed, ISPA has also presented them with an “Internet Hero Award”. Frankly, when it comes to the issues of criminality, I think Spamhaus has significantly more credibility than you do.
They wrote in it that they receive on a regular basis - massive amount of illegaly-obtained privacy data from their contacts in many internet companies and internet organizations - and then they share it in illegal way (without any warrant) with Law Enforcement Agencies - this is the reason that Law Enforcement Agencies are doing nothing regarding the illegal anonymous organization "The Spamhaus Project”.
That’s an awfully strange interpretation of (presumably): “Spamhaus holds a lot of information provided in confidence by industry players — on the understanding that it can be made available to LEAs where needed.”
Ronald Guilmette is the front person of the illegal anonymous organization "The Spamhaus Project”.
Uh, sure, and I’m the Prince of Whales.
---- and that said legal counsel has then proceeded to threaten various officials of the City of Cape Town, South Africa with possible legal action if they do not relinquish to him their rights in and title to the 165.25.0.0/16 block ---- This is a complete lie, in order to shame CoCT I will not share their internal correspondences. Anyone interested to know more information can email me directly.
At this point, the best you’ve got on this list is an a-said/b-said with no public evidence on either side. In such a case, it boils down to credibility and frankly, IMHO, yours is lacking.
---- "I am assured that at no time did the City of Cape Town ever sell, trade, or barter away their rights to this valuable IPv4 block" ---- Ronald is "assured" exactly as he is "assured" that all Dutch people are criminals and all Colombian network oeprators are criminals and all Chicago citizens are criminals according to his statements in the following links: https://imgur.com/AcmgwEX <https://imgur.com/AcmgwEX> https://imgur.com/WUZvdNJ <https://imgur.com/WUZvdNJ> https://imgur.com/a/Rzrbxkz <https://imgur.com/a/Rzrbxkz> Quote 1 might be bad style on RFG’s part, but style and eloquence have never been his strong suits. OTOH, he is, in my experience, a meticulous researcher and brutally honest. I also note that you have carefully resorted to an image of a plain text blob with no header matter and no way to authenticate or verify the source or validate the attribution as factual. I don’t doubt that it is an actual RFG quote (at least it sounds like something he’d say), but why not link to the actual list archive where you got it? Are you attempting to hide the rest of the thread from closer scrutiny while cherry-picking quotes you hope support your narrative? FWIW: Cogent sales reps who actually respond <https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2019-September/102992.html> is the original thread from the NANOG archives.
Qoute 2 strikes me as an innocent snark said in jest. FWIW: Colombia Network Operators Group <https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2019-September/103083.html> is the original thread from the NANOG archives. Quote 3 is the most amusing in that the person all but states that you, Mr. Cohen, are acting guilty of the allegations made by RFG and that the original poster thinks you both have things to answer for. FWIW: Quoted thread here: Prominent horse racing identities (was Re: Elad Cohen) <https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2020-January/105585.html>
Ronald was called an antisemitic and a racist person here on Nanog in the following two links, by people which are not related to me: https://imgur.com/AQCmZlk <https://imgur.com/AQCmZlk> https://imgur.com/a/Rzrbxkz <https://imgur.com/a/Rzrbxkz> Ron has UI problems, to be sure. Not the least of which, he doesn’t filter and doesn’t put any effort into political correctness. He definitely lacks polish and a certain level of social skills.
I don’t think for one second that he is actually a racist or a bigot. He identifies patterns and calls out what he sees. Often without regard for the collateral damage. You, Mr. Cohen, are not collateral. You are dead center of the wrongdoing he’s been pointing out.
In the first "The Ronald Show" many months ago - Ronald called me in two antisemitic names that are being used to relate to Jews in Shakespeare literature (just like Ronald is relating to Shakespeare in https://imgur.com/AcmgwEX <https://imgur.com/AcmgwEX> ) - as part of his defamation campaign towards me - none of you raised a voice and not only that but some Nanog subscribers enjoyed his racism and antisemitism (without a single proof against me) as was written here by them (with a popcorn).
Just because RFG used racist terms and you happen to be Israeli (and for all I know Jewish, too), doesn’t mean that his accusations against you are baseless or inaccurate. Is it your claim that the following article: https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/318205-the-big-south-african-ip-addr... <https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/318205-the-big-south-african-ip-address-heist-how-millions-are-made-on-the-grey-market.html> is entirely baseless? Do you have any documentation to support such a claim? Just out of curiosity… Is this you, too? https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-dismisses-head-of-co-ed-idf-unit-for-suspe... <https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-dismisses-head-of-co-ed-idf-unit-for-suspected-relationship-with-subordinate/> Owen
---- This is the second time I’ve seen you make this claim in public. I see nothing in the slide deck you linked which claims they are illegal. ---- According to their private presentation in the following link - they receive on a regular basis private data from their contacts in internet companies and internet organizations in illegal way - and then they share it with Law Enforcement Agencies in illegal way (without any warrant). https://www.scribd.com/document/445894312/Spamhaus-Illegal-Private-Data-Viol... ---- Nor does it say that they are anonymous, in fact, the CIO’s name (Richard D G Cox) is prominently displayed on the title slide. ---- Spamhaus using fake names such as "Mike Anderson", "Rob Shultz", "Thomas Morrison", "Pete Dewas" - is a fact. Richard D G Cox name is displayed in the presentation - because it was a private presentation that was displayed in a private event and they never knew that it will become public. ---- I seriously doubt that if they were truly the criminals you say they are, they would be permitted to name the FBI as a partner on their website: https://www.spamhaus.org/organization/ ---- They are helping Law Enforcement Agencies on a regular basis and in very high volume according to their own presentation (by sharing with them all the illegaly-obtained privacy data) - so Law Enforcement Agencies look the other way. ---- I also sincerely doubt that if they were criminals, as you state, that they would be admitted as members, let alone receive awards from the National Cber-Forensics and Training Alliance. ---- Some of the employees of Spamhaus are past members of Law Enforcement Agencies, such as Andrew Fried (from deteque.com - owned by Spamhaus) - which was a former special agent in USA government before hoped to his new job at Spamhaus. They are connected to the Law Enforcement Agencies in the Western world. ---- Indeed, ISPA has also presented them with an “Internet Hero Award”. ---- Yes, they help Law Enforcement Agencies, but in illegal way. ---- Frankly, when it comes to the issues of criminality, I think Spamhaus has significantly more credibility than you do. ---- Thank you for keep taking part in the illegal cyber influence operation. I dislike the word "credibility" - I like the words facts and data. Facts and data are booleans and don't let imbaciles like you are to have an opinion, please relate to facts and to data. ---- That’s an awfully strange interpretation of (presumably): “Spamhaus holds a lot of information provided in confidence by industry players — on the understanding that it can be made available to LEAs where needed.” ---- confidence means illegal unless you are an imbacile, industry players means internet companies and internet organizations, "on the understanding" - meaning that their contacts that shared with them the mass privcay data know that this data can be available to LEAs without any warrant "where needed". ---- Uh, sure, and I’m the Prince of Whales. ---- Ronald doesn't deny it, so you are denying it for him? ---- At this point, the best you’ve got on this list is an a-said/b-said with no public evidence on either side. In such a case, it boils down to credibility and frankly, IMHO, yours is lacking. ---- Yours lacking. You are asking from me to share with you private business documents publicly ? who are you ? ---- Quote 1 might be bad style on RFG’s part, but style and eloquence have never been his strong suits. ---- People that cover up racism are worst than racists. ---- a meticulous researcher and brutally honest ---- Proofs ? Facts ? Data ? Ever heared on any of these ? instead of mumbling here that Coconut Guilmette is a meticulous researcher and brutally honest. Here just one note on his "honesty", Coconut Guilmette wrote here in Nanog the text in the following link: https://imgur.com/xWSq3g3 I was never contacted by CoCT like he wrote nor anyone else was contacted, he lied to you all, not only that - but internal correspondences of CoCT proof the complete opposite of what he wrote - Alister of CoCT explained to Coconut Guilmette in his imagination what he wrote there - Coconut Guilmette will not be able to show a single proof to anything in that linked text paragraph of his. I'm willing to show evidences of the exact opposite to one respected member of Nanog and he will confirm it to the Nanog community (for example to William Herrin). ---- Are you attempting to hide the rest of the thread from closer scrutiny while cherry-picking quotes you hope support your narrative? ---- Racism is racism, you are again trying to to justify racism. The person that called Ronald a racist and the person that called Ronald an antisemitic - both of them read everything he wrote. ---- Quote 3 is the most amusing in that the person all but states that you, Mr. Cohen, are acting guilty of the allegations made by RFG and that the original poster thinks you both have things to answer for. ---- No, that response regarding me was due to the lies of Coconut Guilmette like I showed above. And there were many many more lies - everything that Coconut Guilmette wrote about me was without any single proof against me - only from his imagination. Are you comparing the quote of stating that I need to answer to the lies of Coconut Guilmette to the quote which is stating that Ronald is an antisemitic ??? ---- Ron has UI problems, to be sure. Not the least of which, he doesn’t filter and doesn’t put any effort into political correctness. He definitely lacks polish and a certain level of social skills. ---- Nice way to cover up a person which is a racist and an antisemitic, and was called a racist and an antisemitic not by me but by people which are not related to me. ---- I don’t think for one second that he is actually a racist or a bigot. He identifies patterns and calls out what he sees. Often without regard for the collateral damage. ---- Patterns like country-origin ? city-origin ? race-patterns ? This is called racism, you are still trying to cover up a racist and an antisemitic. ---- You, Mr. Cohen, are not collateral. You are dead center of the wrongdoing he’s been pointing out. ---- The only wrongdoing is him not going to a complete health check and you covering up a racist and an antisemitic. ---- Just because RFG used racist terms and you happen to be Israeli (and for all I know Jewish, too), doesn’t mean that his accusations against you are baseless or inaccurate. ---- or Proof-less ??? And now in this sentence you are confirming that he is a racist and antisemitic - so why you wrote all the above? ---- Is it your claim that the following article: https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/318205-the-big-south-african-ip-addr... is entirely baseless? Do you have any documentation to support such a claim? ---- Here is the latest ordered article from the illegal anonymous organization "The Spamhaus Project" in that site: https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/350973-man-connected-to-african-ip-a... And in it you can see that is written: "It must be noted that Cohen is not being accused of any illegal activity in this report." That is the last article after the mumbo-jumbo that you linked. The site wrote it because they know that as you wrote - everything is entirely baseless - but it doesn't matter to them - all they want is to defame me and to hurt my chances to join the RIPE board, because they know that I will put an end to the illegal anonymous organization "The Spamhaus Project" if I will be elected, the defamation towards me is only because I dared to stand up against the illegal anonymouos organization "The Spamhaus Project". ---- Just out of curiosity… Is this you, too? https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-dismisses-head-of-co-ed-idf-unit-for-suspe... ---- Just out of curiosity... Is this you, too? https://hawaiianeyetours.com/files/672%20Size%20Images/humpback_whale_breach... ________________________________ From: Owen DeLong <owen@delong.com> Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2020 12:07 AM To: Elad Cohen <elad@netstyle.io> Cc: Ronald F. Guilmette <rfg@tristatelogic.com>; nanog@nanog.org <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election "The Spamhaus Project" is an illegal anonymous organization according to their own words in their own following presentation: https://www.scribd.com/document/445894312/Spamhaus-Illegal-Private-Data-Viol... This is the second time I’ve seen you make this claim in public. I see nothing in the slide deck you linked which claims they are illegal. Nor does it say that they are anonymous, in fact, the CIO’s name (Richard D G Cox) is prominently displayed on the title slide. I seriously doubt that if they were truly the criminals you say they are, they would be permitted to name the FBI as a partner on their website: https://www.spamhaus.org/organization/ I also sincerely doubt that if they were criminals, as you state, that they would be admitted as members, let alone receive awards from the National Cber-Forensics and Training Alliance. Indeed, ISPA has also presented them with an “Internet Hero Award”. Frankly, when it comes to the issues of criminality, I think Spamhaus has significantly more credibility than you do. They wrote in it that they receive on a regular basis - massive amount of illegaly-obtained privacy data from their contacts in many internet companies and internet organizations - and then they share it in illegal way (without any warrant) with Law Enforcement Agencies - this is the reason that Law Enforcement Agencies are doing nothing regarding the illegal anonymous organization "The Spamhaus Project”. That’s an awfully strange interpretation of (presumably): “Spamhaus holds a lot of information provided in confidence by industry players — on the understanding that it can be made available to LEAs where needed.” Ronald Guilmette is the front person of the illegal anonymous organization "The Spamhaus Project”. Uh, sure, and I’m the Prince of Whales. ---- and that said legal counsel has then proceeded to threaten various officials of the City of Cape Town, South Africa with possible legal action if they do not relinquish to him their rights in and title to the 165.25.0.0/16 block ---- This is a complete lie, in order to shame CoCT I will not share their internal correspondences. Anyone interested to know more information can email me directly. At this point, the best you’ve got on this list is an a-said/b-said with no public evidence on either side. In such a case, it boils down to credibility and frankly, IMHO, yours is lacking. ---- "I am assured that at no time did the City of Cape Town ever sell, trade, or barter away their rights to this valuable IPv4 block" ---- Ronald is "assured" exactly as he is "assured" that all Dutch people are criminals and all Colombian network oeprators are criminals and all Chicago citizens are criminals according to his statements in the following links: https://imgur.com/AcmgwEX https://imgur.com/WUZvdNJ https://imgur.com/a/Rzrbxkz Quote 1 might be bad style on RFG’s part, but style and eloquence have never been his strong suits. OTOH, he is, in my experience, a meticulous researcher and brutally honest. I also note that you have carefully resorted to an image of a plain text blob with no header matter and no way to authenticate or verify the source or validate the attribution as factual. I don’t doubt that it is an actual RFG quote (at least it sounds like something he’d say), but why not link to the actual list archive where you got it? Are you attempting to hide the rest of the thread from closer scrutiny while cherry-picking quotes you hope support your narrative? FWIW: Cogent sales reps who actually respond<https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2019-September/102992.html> is the original thread from the NANOG archives. Qoute 2 strikes me as an innocent snark said in jest. FWIW: Colombia Network Operators Group<https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2019-September/103083.html> is the original thread from the NANOG archives. Quote 3 is the most amusing in that the person all but states that you, Mr. Cohen, are acting guilty of the allegations made by RFG and that the original poster thinks you both have things to answer for. FWIW: Quoted thread here: Prominent horse racing identities (was Re: Elad Cohen)<https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2020-January/105585.html> Ronald was called an antisemitic and a racist person here on Nanog in the following two links, by people which are not related to me: https://imgur.com/AQCmZlk https://imgur.com/a/Rzrbxkz Ron has UI problems, to be sure. Not the least of which, he doesn’t filter and doesn’t put any effort into political correctness. He definitely lacks polish and a certain level of social skills. I don’t think for one second that he is actually a racist or a bigot. He identifies patterns and calls out what he sees. Often without regard for the collateral damage. You, Mr. Cohen, are not collateral. You are dead center of the wrongdoing he’s been pointing out. In the first "The Ronald Show" many months ago - Ronald called me in two antisemitic names that are being used to relate to Jews in Shakespeare literature (just like Ronald is relating to Shakespeare in https://imgur.com/AcmgwEX ) - as part of his defamation campaign towards me - none of you raised a voice and not only that but some Nanog subscribers enjoyed his racism and antisemitism (without a single proof against me) as was written here by them (with a popcorn). Just because RFG used racist terms and you happen to be Israeli (and for all I know Jewish, too), doesn’t mean that his accusations against you are baseless or inaccurate. Is it your claim that the following article: https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/318205-the-big-south-african-ip-addr... is entirely baseless? Do you have any documentation to support such a claim? Just out of curiosity… Is this you, too? https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-dismisses-head-of-co-ed-idf-unit-for-suspe... Owen
Can you please let it go? Or even better go some place else ? I am sure many thank you. On 5/13/20 9:20 PM, Elad Cohen wrote:
---- /This is the second time I’ve seen you make this claim in public. I see nothing in the slide deck you linked which claims they are illegal./ ---- According to their private presentation in the following link - they receive on a regular basis private data from their contacts in internet companies and internet organizations in illegal way - and then they share it with Law Enforcement Agencies in illegal way (without any warrant).
https://www.scribd.com/document/445894312/Spamhaus-Illegal-Private-Data-Viol...
---- /Nor does it say that they are anonymous, in fact, the CIO’s name (Richard D G Cox) is prominently displayed on the title slide./ ---- Spamhaus using fake names such as "Mike Anderson", "Rob Shultz", "Thomas Morrison", "Pete Dewas" - is a fact. Richard D G Cox name is displayed in the presentation - because it was a private presentation that was displayed in a private event and they never knew that it will become public.
---- /I seriously doubt that if they were truly the criminals you say they are, they would be permitted to name the FBI as a partner on their website: https://www.spamhaus.org/organization// ---- They are helping Law Enforcement Agencies on a regular basis and in very high volume according to their own presentation (by sharing with them all the illegaly-obtained privacy data) - so Law Enforcement Agencies look the other way.
---- /I also sincerely doubt that if they were criminals, as you state, that they would be admitted as members, let alone receive awards from the National Cber-Forensics and Training Alliance./ ---- Some of the employees of Spamhaus are past members of Law Enforcement Agencies, such as Andrew Fried (from deteque.com - owned by Spamhaus) - which was a former special agent in USA government before hoped to his new job at Spamhaus. They are connected to the Law Enforcement Agencies in the Western world.
---- /Indeed, ISPA has also presented them with an “Internet Hero Award”./ ---- Yes, they help Law Enforcement Agencies, but in illegal way.
---- /Frankly, when it comes to the issues of criminality, I think Spamhaus has significantly more credibility than you do./ ---- Thank you for keep taking part in the illegal cyber influence operation. I dislike the word "credibility" - I like the words facts and data. Facts and data are booleans and don't let imbaciles like you are to have an opinion, please relate to facts and to data.
---- /That’s an awfully strange interpretation of (presumably): / /“Spamhaus holds a lot of information provided in confidence by industry players — on the understanding that it can be made available to LEAs where needed.” / ---- confidence means illegal unless you are an imbacile, industry players means internet companies and internet organizations, "on the understanding" - meaning that their contacts that shared with them the mass privcay data know that this data can be available to LEAs without any warrant "where needed".
---- /Uh, sure, and I’m the Prince of Whales./ ---- Ronald doesn't deny it, so you are denying it for him?
---- /At this point, the best you’ve got on this list is an a-said/b-said with no public evidence on either side. In such a case, it boils down to credibility and frankly, IMHO, yours is lacking./ ---- Yours lacking. You are asking from me to share with you private business documents publicly ? who are you ?
---- /Quote 1 might be bad style on RFG’s part, but style and eloquence have never been his strong suits./ ---- People that cover up racism are worst than racists.
---- /a meticulous researcher and brutally honest/ ---- Proofs ? Facts ? Data ? Ever heared on any of these ? instead of mumbling here that Coconut Guilmette is a meticulous researcher and brutally honest.
Here just one note on his "honesty", Coconut Guilmette wrote here in Nanog the text in the following link:
I was never contacted by CoCT like he wrote nor anyone else was contacted, he lied to you all, not only that - but internal correspondences of CoCT proof the complete opposite of what he wrote - Alister of CoCT explained to Coconut Guilmette in his imagination what he wrote there - Coconut Guilmette will not be able to show a single proof to anything in that linked text paragraph of his. I'm willing to show evidences of the exact opposite to one respected member of Nanog and he will confirm it to the Nanog community (for example to William Herrin).
---- /Are you attempting to hide the rest of the thread from closer scrutiny while cherry-picking quotes you hope support your narrative?/ ---- Racism is racism, you are again trying to to justify racism. The person that called Ronald a racist and the person that called Ronald an antisemitic - both of them read everything he wrote.
---- /Quote 3 is the most amusing in that the person all but states that you, Mr. Cohen, are acting guilty of the allegations made by RFG and that the original poster thinks you both have things to answer for./ ---- No, that response regarding me was due to the lies of Coconut Guilmette like I showed above. And there were many many more lies - everything that Coconut Guilmette wrote about me was without any single proof against me - only from his imagination. Are you comparing the quote of stating that I need to answer to the lies of Coconut Guilmette to the quote which is stating that Ronald is an antisemitic ???
---- /Ron has UI problems, to be sure. Not the least of which, he doesn’t filter and doesn’t put any effort into political correctness. He definitely lacks polish and a certain level of social skills./ ---- Nice way to cover up a person which is a racist and an antisemitic, and was called a racist and an antisemitic not by me but by people which are not related to me.
---- /I don’t think for one second that he is actually a racist or a bigot. He identifies patterns and calls out what he sees. Often without regard for the collateral damage./ ---- Patterns like country-origin ? city-origin ? race-patterns ? This is called racism, you are still trying to cover up a racist and an antisemitic.
---- /You, Mr. Cohen, are not collateral. You are dead center of the wrongdoing he’s been pointing out./ ---- The only wrongdoing is him not going to a complete health check and you covering up a racist and an antisemitic.
---- /Just because RFG used racist terms and you happen to be Israeli (and for all I know Jewish, too), doesn’t mean that his accusations against you are baseless or inaccurate./ ---- or Proof-less ??? And now in this sentence you are confirming that he is a racist and antisemitic - so why you wrote all the above?
---- /Is it your claim that the following article: / /https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/318205-the-big-south-african-ip-addr... / /is entirely baseless? Do you have any documentation to support such a claim?/ ---- Here is the latest ordered article from the illegal anonymous organization "The Spamhaus Project" in that site:
https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/350973-man-connected-to-african-ip-a...
And in it you can see that is written:
"It must be noted that Cohen is not being accused of any illegal activity in this report."
That is the last article after the mumbo-jumbo that you linked.
The site wrote it because they know that as you wrote - everything is entirely baseless - but it doesn't matter to them - all they want is to defame me and to hurt my chances to join the RIPE board, because they know that I will put an end to the illegal anonymous organization "The Spamhaus Project" if I will be elected, the defamation towards me is only because I dared to stand up against the illegal anonymouos organization "The Spamhaus Project".
---- /Just out of curiosity… Is this you, too? / /https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-dismisses-head-of-co-ed-idf-unit-for-suspe... / ---- Just out of curiosity... Is this you, too? https://hawaiianeyetours.com/files/672%20Size%20Images/humpback_whale_breach...
------------------------------------------------------------------------ *From:* Owen DeLong <owen@delong.com> *Sent:* Thursday, May 14, 2020 12:07 AM *To:* Elad Cohen <elad@netstyle.io> *Cc:* Ronald F. Guilmette <rfg@tristatelogic.com>; nanog@nanog.org <nanog@nanog.org> *Subject:* Re: RIPE NCC Executive Board election
"The Spamhaus Project" is an illegal anonymous organization according to their own words in their own following presentation:
https://www.scribd.com/document/445894312/Spamhaus-Illegal-Private-Data-Viol...
This is the second time I’ve seen you make this claim in public. I see nothing in the slide deck you linked which claims they are illegal.
Nor does it say that they are anonymous, in fact, the CIO’s name (Richard D G Cox) is prominently displayed on the title slide.
I seriously doubt that if they were truly the criminals you say they are, they would be permitted to name the FBI as a partner on their website: https://www.spamhaus.org/organization/
I also sincerely doubt that if they were criminals, as you state, that they would be admitted as members, let alone receive awards from the National Cber-Forensics and Training Alliance.
Indeed, ISPA has also presented them with an “Internet Hero Award”.
Frankly, when it comes to the issues of criminality, I think Spamhaus has significantly more credibility than you do.
They wrote in it that they receive on a regular basis - massive amount of illegaly-obtained privacy data from their contacts in many internet companies and internet organizations - and then they share it in illegal way (without any warrant) with Law Enforcement Agencies - this is the reason that Law Enforcement Agencies are doing nothing regarding the illegal anonymous organization "The Spamhaus Project”.
That’s an awfully strange interpretation of (presumably):
“Spamhaus holds a lot of information provided in confidence by industry players — on the understanding that it can be made available to LEAs where needed.”
Ronald Guilmette is the front person of the illegal anonymous organization "The Spamhaus Project”.
Uh, sure, and I’m the Prince of Whales.
---- /and that said legal counsel has then / /proceeded to threaten various officials of the City of Cape Town, / /South Africa with possible legal action if they do not relinquish / /to him their rights in and title to the 165.25.0.0/16 block/ ---- This is a complete lie, in order to shame CoCT I will not share their internal correspondences. Anyone interested to know more information can email me directly.
At this point, the best you’ve got on this list is an a-said/b-said with no public evidence on either side. In such a case, it boils down to credibility and frankly, IMHO, yours is lacking.
---- /"I am assured that at no time did the City of Cape Town ever sell, trade, or barter away their rights to this valuable IPv4 block"/ ---- Ronald is "assured" exactly as he is "assured" that all Dutch people are criminals and all Colombian network oeprators are criminals and all Chicago citizens are criminals according to his statements in the following links: https://imgur.com/AcmgwEX https://imgur.com/WUZvdNJ https://imgur.com/a/Rzrbxkz
Quote 1 might be bad style on RFG’s part, but style and eloquence have never been his strong suits. OTOH, he is, in my experience, a meticulous researcher and brutally honest. I also note that you have carefully resorted to an image of a plain text blob with no header matter and no way to authenticate or verify the source or validate the attribution as factual. I don’t doubt that it is an actual RFG quote (at least it sounds like something he’d say), but why not link to the actual list archive where you got it? Are you attempting to hide the rest of the thread from closer scrutiny while cherry-picking quotes you hope support your narrative? FWIW: Cogent sales reps who actually respond <https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2019-September/102992.html> is the original thread from the NANOG archives.
Qoute 2 strikes me as an innocent snark said in jest. FWIW: Colombia Network Operators Group <https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2019-September/103083.html> is the original thread from the NANOG archives.
Quote 3 is the most amusing in that the person all but states that you, Mr. Cohen, are acting guilty of the allegations made by RFG and that the original poster thinks you both have things to answer for. FWIW: Quoted thread here: Prominent horse racing identities (was Re: Elad Cohen) <https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2020-January/105585.html>
Ronald was called an antisemitic and a racist person here on Nanog in the following two links, by people which are not related to me: https://imgur.com/AQCmZlk https://imgur.com/a/Rzrbxkz
Ron has UI problems, to be sure. Not the least of which, he doesn’t filter and doesn’t put any effort into political correctness. He definitely lacks polish and a certain level of social skills.
I don’t think for one second that he is actually a racist or a bigot. He identifies patterns and calls out what he sees. Often without regard for the collateral damage.
You, Mr. Cohen, are not collateral. You are dead center of the wrongdoing he’s been pointing out.
In the first "The Ronald Show" many months ago - Ronald called me in two antisemitic names that are being used to relate to Jews in Shakespeare literature (just like Ronald is relating to Shakespeare in https://imgur.com/AcmgwEX ) - as part of his defamation campaign towards me - none of you raised a voice and not only that but some Nanog subscribers enjoyed his racism and antisemitism (without a single proof against me) as was written here by them (with a popcorn).
Just because RFG used racist terms and you happen to be Israeli (and for all I know Jewish, too), doesn’t mean that his accusations against you are baseless or inaccurate.
Is it your claim that the following article: https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/318205-the-big-south-african-ip-addr...
is entirely baseless? Do you have any documentation to support such a claim?
Just out of curiosity… Is this you, too? https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-dismisses-head-of-co-ed-idf-unit-for-suspe...
Owen
Subject changed per request from NANOG staff.
On May 13, 2020, at 19:20 , Elad Cohen <elad@netstyle.io> wrote:
---- This is the second time I’ve seen you make this claim in public. I see nothing in the slide deck you linked which claims they are illegal. ---- According to their private presentation in the following link - they receive on a regular basis private data from their contacts in internet companies and internet organizations in illegal way - and then they share it with Law Enforcement Agencies in illegal way (without any warrant).
https://www.scribd.com/document/445894312/Spamhaus-Illegal-Private-Data-Viol... <https://www.scribd.com/document/445894312/Spamhaus-Illegal-Private-Data-Violation>
You keep claiming that they receive this data in an illegal way, yet have not substantiated that claim with any actual evidence. Continuing to point to the same slide deck which only states that they hold a lot of information provided in confidence by industry players and that the “players” in question provide the information with the understanding that Spamhaus may pass it on to LEA “where needed”. There’s nothing in the slide deck about the nature of the information (nothing says it is private data, though I suppose that might be implied to some extent by “provided in confidence”). Certainly nothing says that it is illegal for their contacts to provide said data or that they don’t have appropriate permission from the data owners, etc.
---- Nor does it say that they are anonymous, in fact, the CIO’s name (Richard D G Cox) is prominently displayed on the title slide. ---- Spamhaus using fake names such as "Mike Anderson", "Rob Shultz", "Thomas Morrison", "Pete Dewas" - is a fact. Richard D G Cox name is displayed in the presentation - because it was a private presentation that was displayed in a private event and they never knew that it will become public.
You’ll need to provide a basis and some evidence to back that up. Otherwise, it’s just your word, which frankly, IMHO, isn’t worth the electrons it’s transmitted on.
---- I seriously doubt that if they were truly the criminals you say they are, they would be permitted to name the FBI as a partner on their website: https://www.spamhaus.org/organization/ <https://www.spamhaus.org/organization/> ---- They are helping Law Enforcement Agencies on a regular basis and in very high volume according to their own presentation (by sharing with them all the illegaly-obtained privacy data) - so Law Enforcement Agencies look the other way.
Not generally the way criminals work. Again, “illegally obtained privacy data” is your accusation without evidence so far. Do you have a basis for this claim? Do you have evidence to support it?
---- I also sincerely doubt that if they were criminals, as you state, that they would be admitted as members, let alone receive awards from the National Cber-Forensics and Training Alliance. ---- Some of the employees of Spamhaus are past members of Law Enforcement Agencies, such as Andrew Fried (from deteque.com <http://deteque.com/> - owned by Spamhaus) - which was a former special agent in USA government before hoped to his new job at Spamhaus. They are connected to the Law Enforcement Agencies in the Western world.
So your claim is that the FBI is supporting former agents who have become career criminals and are operating organizations that should be prosecuted under the RICO act? That’s quite an accusation… Care to present any evidence to back it up? Truth is an absolute defense to defamation in the US, but unless you have some evidence to back that up, the only thing protecting you from a successful lawsuit at this point is probably: + Your credibility is so completely lacking, it’s unlikely your (likely false) accusations are causing actual harm (the plaintiff must show harm) + They probably consider it to be not worth their time and expense to bother with you.
---- Indeed, ISPA has also presented them with an “Internet Hero Award”. ---- Yes, they help Law Enforcement Agencies, but in illegal way.
You keep saying this as if continuing to repeat it while still providing zero evidence to support the claim somehow makes it more believable. It is true that repeating a lie makes it more likely for others to fall for it, but only if those to whom you are repeating the lie aren’t aware that it’s a lie. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illusory_truth_effect <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illusory_truth_effect> The problem you have here is that your audience knows better.
---- Frankly, when it comes to the issues of criminality, I think Spamhaus has significantly more credibility than you do. ---- Thank you for keep taking part in the illegal cyber influence operation. I dislike the word "credibility" - I like the words facts and data. Facts and data are booleans and don't let imbaciles like you are to have an opinion, please relate to facts and to data.
Fact: Your IPv4+ idea makes no sense. Fact: Your proposed solution to dDOS is a non-starter for multiple technical reasons. Fact: Your proposed solution(s) to the SPAM problem are impractical at best and likely do more harm than good. Fact: You have admitted that you have little to no operational network engineering experience. Fact: I’ve been doing this for more than 25 years and I have a deep understanding of how the network actually works. Fact: You’ve provided zero evidence to support your specious accusations against Spamhaus. Fact: Spamhaus has a good reputation in this community for the most part. Fact: You’ve now engaged in an ad hominem attack which is prohibited on this list by its charter. Fact: You mis-spelled imbecile in your ad hominem attack.
---- That’s an awfully strange interpretation of (presumably): “Spamhaus holds a lot of information provided in confidence by industry players — on the understanding that it can be made available to LEAs where needed.” ---- confidence means illegal unless you are an imbacile, industry players means internet companies and internet organizations, "on the understanding" - meaning that their contacts that shared with them the mass privcay data know that this data can be available to LEAs without any warrant "where needed”.
No, “in confidence" means “in private” unless you are (apparently) incapable of spelling imbecile. Meaning that the expectation exists between the sharing party and Spamhaus that the information will not be further disclosed by Spamhaus other than as expected in the (tacit) agreement between the sharing party and Spamhaus. It says nothing about the nature of the data being shared, nor does it say anything about the legality of said sharing. I would say “industry players” actually means “people of significance within the industry”. Finally, yes, “on the understanding” means exactly that… The people who shared the data with Spamhaus did so knowing full well that Spamhaus may share the data with LEA without any warrant. You don’t need a warrant if the data owner has consented to the disclosure, just as the police do not need a warrant if they ask “May we search your home?” and you say “yes”.
---- Uh, sure, and I’m the Prince of Whales. ---- Ronald doesn't deny it, so you are denying it for him?
I’m neither confirming nor denying that RFG is associated with Spamhaus, frankly I don’t know. I tend to doubt that Spamhaus would make RFG their “front person”. I happen to like Ron. He’s a good researcher. However, even I recognize his shortcomings when it comes to public interface and as such, I am not inclined to believe that anyone would make him their “Front Person”.
---- At this point, the best you’ve got on this list is an a-said/b-said with no public evidence on either side. In such a case, it boils down to credibility and frankly, IMHO, yours is lacking. ---- Yours lacking. You are asking from me to share with you private business documents publicly ? who are you ?
I’m not asking you to do anything. You’re making public accusations and then refusing to provide any evidence to support them. As such, you lack credibility. If you wish to create credibility, then find a way to back up your accusations. Otherwise, I humbly suggest you crawl back under the rock from whence you came. Who am I? I’m an experienced network engineer and network architect with 25+ years in this industry serving my 5th 3-year term as an elected representative of the IP number resource community in North America, parts of the Caribbean, and certain other territories around the world. I’m a long-standing member of the NANOG community with a strong track record of support for a free and open internet available to all.
---- Quote 1 might be bad style on RFG’s part, but style and eloquence have never been his strong suits. ---- People that cover up racism are worst than racists.
I’m not covering up anything. I freely admit that RFG made a poor choice of words and has a particularly bad way of expressing himself. Frankly, I suspect RFG’s age and limited ability to filter his own speech leads to his use of terms he doesn’t even realize carry racist connotations. I don’t defend his choice of terminology, but I question the claim that he harbors any ill will towards any entire class of people other than criminals and spammers.
---- a meticulous researcher and brutally honest ---- Proofs ? Facts ? Data ? Ever heared on any of these ? instead of mumbling here that Coconut Guilmette is a meticulous researcher and brutally honest.
I’ve never met a coconut that could speak. That’s a fact. I’m pretty sure from phone conversations and other communication I’ve had with RFG that he is not, in fact, a coconut. I’d even go so far as to say it is a fact that RFG is not a coconut.
Here just one note on his "honesty", Coconut Guilmette wrote here in Nanog the text in the following link:
You do love your screenshots without context or attribution, don’t you… Yet another example of your attempts to manipulate the facts. Original full text of post here: https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2019-September/103073.html <https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2019-September/103073.html>
I was never contacted by CoCT like he wrote nor anyone else was contacted, he lied to you all, not only that - but internal correspondences of CoCT proof the complete opposite of what he wrote - Alister of CoCT explained to Coconut Guilmette in his imagination what he wrote there - Coconut Guilmette will not be able to show a single proof to anything in that linked text paragraph of his. I'm willing to show evidences of the exact opposite to one respected member of Nanog and he will confirm it to the Nanog community (for example to William Herrin).
I’ve reached out to Mr. Van Tonder. I will await his reply to see whose story is confirmed and post the information to the list. Evidence would, indeed, be a nice change of pace from your claims thus far.
---- Are you attempting to hide the rest of the thread from closer scrutiny while cherry-picking quotes you hope support your narrative? ---- Racism is racism, you are again trying to to justify racism. The person that called Ronald a racist and the person that called Ronald an antisemitic - both of them read everything he wrote.
Huh? The person who called him a racist (Niels) retracted his claim and apologized. Did you miss that part of the thread? It was sent specifically TO YOU in addition to NANOG. As I said, you are cherry-picking the pieces of messages that you believe support your claims. I notice you again deleted my link to the actual thread.
---- Quote 3 is the most amusing in that the person all but states that you, Mr. Cohen, are acting guilty of the allegations made by RFG and that the original poster thinks you both have things to answer for. ---- No, that response regarding me was due to the lies of Coconut Guilmette like I showed above. And there were many many more lies - everything that Coconut Guilmette wrote about me was without any single proof against me - only from his imagination. Are you comparing the quote of stating that I need to answer to the lies of Coconut Guilmette to the quote which is stating that Ronald is an antisemitic ???
No, that response was entirely legitimate and specifically called out YOUR ACTIONS.
---- Ron has UI problems, to be sure. Not the least of which, he doesn’t filter and doesn’t put any effort into political correctness. He definitely lacks polish and a certain level of social skills. ---- Nice way to cover up a person which is a racist and an antisemitic, and was called a racist and an antisemitic not by me but by people which are not related to me.
Again, the person who called him a racist recanted, so continuing to base your claim there doesn’t work as well as you hope. As to the claim he is antisemitic, I agree he used antisemitic language. I remain unconvinced that he harbors actual antisemitic feelings. There is a difference between a person who is genuinely antisemitic and a person who will make the mistake of using antisemitic language to describe jewish criminals.
---- I don’t think for one second that he is actually a racist or a bigot. He identifies patterns and calls out what he sees. Often without regard for the collateral damage. ---- Patterns like country-origin ? city-origin ? race-patterns ? This is called racism, you are still trying to cover up a racist and an antisemitic.
Again, I think RFG’s choice of language was poor, indeed. He’s admitted as much. Racism is when the person genuinely believes that the bad actors from a particular race (or in its extended meaning, nationality, etc.) are indicative of the entire group being bad actors. While RFG’s lack of social skills (for lack of a better description) may lead to his use of such language, I remain unconvinced that he actually harbors such feelings, as indicated by his subsequent conversation with Niels.
---- You, Mr. Cohen, are not collateral. You are dead center of the wrongdoing he’s been pointing out. ---- The only wrongdoing is him not going to a complete health check and you covering up a racist and an antisemitic.
I’m covering up nothing. I’ve put everything out in the open. I’m not defending RFG’s choice of language, nor would I defend his attitude if I believed that it matched his language.
---- Just because RFG used racist terms and you happen to be Israeli (and for all I know Jewish, too), doesn’t mean that his accusations against you are baseless or inaccurate. ---- or Proof-less ??? And now in this sentence you are confirming that he is a racist and antisemitic - so why you wrote all the above?
Uh, no, I’m confirming that he used racist language. I never denied that.
---- Is it your claim that the following article: https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/318205-the-big-south-african-ip-addr... <https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/318205-the-big-south-african-ip-address-heist-how-millions-are-made-on-the-grey-market.html> is entirely baseless? Do you have any documentation to support such a claim? ---- Here is the latest ordered article from the illegal anonymous organization "The Spamhaus Project" in that site:
https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/350973-man-connected-to-african-ip-a... <https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/350973-man-connected-to-african-ip-address-heist-running-for-board-position-at-european-ip-address-organisation.html>
And in it you can see that is written:
"It must be noted that Cohen is not being accused of any illegal activity in this report.”
Yeah, that’s boilerplate to get past the legal department by turning it into an opinion piece so that any libel or defamation suit would likely be summarily dismissed. Also, technically, it’s questionable whether IP address hijacking actually constitutes criminal activity under the laws of various jurisdictions or not. Nonetheless, it is perceived as anti-social at best in this community and I suspect most of us would consider it criminal conduct under the tacit understandings that make the community and the internet work, if not under the actual laws of the various lands in question.
That is the last article after the mumbo-jumbo that you linked.
Sure… Care to provide any evidence to discredit said article, or are you again just asking us to take it on faith that you are the aggrieved party and the journalists, RFG, and Spamhaus are all bullying you for no legitimate reason? Owen
Could I request NANOG to remove this thread completely and take the soap opera elsewhere. dc From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces+david.cooke=baesystemsdetica.com@nanog.org] On Behalf Of Owen DeLong Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2020 1:55 PM To: Elad Cohen Cc: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Operational value and legality of Spamhaus vs. unfounded accusations by Elad Cohen PHISHING ALERT This email has been sent from an account outside of the BAE Systems network. Be aware that this could be a phishing attempt. For more guidance, search "phishing email" on Connect. If you think this is a phishing email report it using the "PhishMe" button on Outlook. Subject changed per request from NANOG staff. On May 13, 2020, at 19:20 , Elad Cohen <elad@netstyle.io<mailto:elad@netstyle.io>> wrote: ---- This is the second time I’ve seen you make this claim in public. I see nothing in the slide deck you linked which claims they are illegal. ---- According to their private presentation in the following link - they receive on a regular basis private data from their contacts in internet companies and internet organizations in illegal way - and then they share it with Law Enforcement Agencies in illegal way (without any warrant). https://www.scribd.com/document/445894312/Spamhaus-Illegal-Private-Data-Violation<https://www.scribd.com/document/445894312/Spamhaus-Illegal-Private-Data-Violation > You keep claiming that they receive this data in an illegal way, yet have not substantiated that claim with any actual evidence. Continuing to point to the same slide deck which only states that they hold a lot of information provided in confidence by industry players and that the “players” in question provide the information with the understanding that Spamhaus may pass it on to LEA “where needed”. There’s nothing in the slide deck about the nature of the information (nothing says it is private data, though I suppose that might be implied to some extent by “provided in confidence”). Certainly nothing says that it is illegal for their contacts to provide said data or that they don’t have appropriate permission from the data owners, etc. ---- Nor does it say that they are anonymous, in fact, the CIO’s name (Richard D G Cox) is prominently displayed on the title slide. ---- Spamhaus using fake names such as "Mike Anderson", "Rob Shultz", "Thomas Morrison", "Pete Dewas" - is a fact. Richard D G Cox name is displayed in the presentation - because it was a private presentation that was displayed in a private event and they never knew that it will become public. You’ll need to provide a basis and some evidence to back that up. Otherwise, it’s just your word, which frankly, IMHO, isn’t worth the electrons it’s transmitted on. ---- I seriously doubt that if they were truly the criminals you say they are, they would be permitted to name the FBI as a partner on their website: https://www.spamhaus.org/organization/<https://www.spamhaus.org/organization/ > ---- They are helping Law Enforcement Agencies on a regular basis and in very high volume according to their own presentation (by sharing with them all the illegaly-obtained privacy data) - so Law Enforcement Agencies look the other way. Not generally the way criminals work. Again, “illegally obtained privacy data” is your accusation without evidence so far. Do you have a basis for this claim? Do you have evidence to support it? ---- I also sincerely doubt that if they were criminals, as you state, that they would be admitted as members, let alone receive awards from the National Cber-Forensics and Training Alliance. ---- Some of the employees of Spamhaus are past members of Law Enforcement Agencies, such as Andrew Fried (from deteque.com<http://deteque.com/ > - owned by Spamhaus) - which was a former special agent in USA government before hoped to his new job at Spamhaus. They are connected to the Law Enforcement Agencies in the Western world. So your claim is that the FBI is supporting former agents who have become career criminals and are operating organizations that should be prosecuted under the RICO act? That’s quite an accusation… Care to present any evidence to back it up? Truth is an absolute defense to defamation in the US, but unless you have some evidence to back that up, the only thing protecting you from a successful lawsuit at this point is probably: + Your credibility is so completely lacking, it’s unlikely your (likely false) accusations are causing actual harm (the plaintiff must show harm) + They probably consider it to be not worth their time and expense to bother with you. ---- Indeed, ISPA has also presented them with an “Internet Hero Award”. ---- Yes, they help Law Enforcement Agencies, but in illegal way. You keep saying this as if continuing to repeat it while still providing zero evidence to support the claim somehow makes it more believable. It is true that repeating a lie makes it more likely for others to fall for it, but only if those to whom you are repeating the lie aren’t aware that it’s a lie. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illusory_truth_effect<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illusory_truth_effect > The problem you have here is that your audience knows better. ---- Frankly, when it comes to the issues of criminality, I think Spamhaus has significantly more credibility than you do. ---- Thank you for keep taking part in the illegal cyber influence operation. I dislike the word "credibility" - I like the words facts and data. Facts and data are booleans and don't let imbaciles like you are to have an opinion, please relate to facts and to data. Fact: Your IPv4+ idea makes no sense. Fact: Your proposed solution to dDOS is a non-starter for multiple technical reasons. Fact: Your proposed solution(s) to the SPAM problem are impractical at best and likely do more harm than good. Fact: You have admitted that you have little to no operational network engineering experience. Fact: I’ve been doing this for more than 25 years and I have a deep understanding of how the network actually works. Fact: You’ve provided zero evidence to support your specious accusations against Spamhaus. Fact: Spamhaus has a good reputation in this community for the most part. Fact: You’ve now engaged in an ad hominem attack which is prohibited on this list by its charter. Fact: You mis-spelled imbecile in your ad hominem attack. ---- That’s an awfully strange interpretation of (presumably): “Spamhaus holds a lot of information provided in confidence by industry players — on the understanding that it can be made available to LEAs where needed.” ---- confidence means illegal unless you are an imbacile, industry players means internet companies and internet organizations, "on the understanding" - meaning that their contacts that shared with them the mass privcay data know that this data can be available to LEAs without any warrant "where needed”. No, “in confidence" means “in private” unless you are (apparently) incapable of spelling imbecile. Meaning that the expectation exists between the sharing party and Spamhaus that the information will not be further disclosed by Spamhaus other than as expected in the (tacit) agreement between the sharing party and Spamhaus. It says nothing about the nature of the data being shared, nor does it say anything about the legality of said sharing. I would say “industry players” actually means “people of significance within the industry”. Finally, yes, “on the understanding” means exactly that… The people who shared the data with Spamhaus did so knowing full well that Spamhaus may share the data with LEA without any warrant. You don’t need a warrant if the data owner has consented to the disclosure, just as the police do not need a warrant if they ask “May we search your home?” and you say “yes”. ---- Uh, sure, and I’m the Prince of Whales. ---- Ronald doesn't deny it, so you are denying it for him? I’m neither confirming nor denying that RFG is associated with Spamhaus, frankly I don’t know. I tend to doubt that Spamhaus would make RFG their “front person”. I happen to like Ron. He’s a good researcher. However, even I recognize his shortcomings when it comes to public interface and as such, I am not inclined to believe that anyone would make him their “Front Person”. ---- At this point, the best you’ve got on this list is an a-said/b-said with no public evidence on either side. In such a case, it boils down to credibility and frankly, IMHO, yours is lacking. ---- Yours lacking. You are asking from me to share with you private business documents publicly ? who are you ? I’m not asking you to do anything. You’re making public accusations and then refusing to provide any evidence to support them. As such, you lack credibility. If you wish to create credibility, then find a way to back up your accusations. Otherwise, I humbly suggest you crawl back under the rock from whence you came. Who am I? I’m an experienced network engineer and network architect with 25+ years in this industry serving my 5th 3-year term as an elected representative of the IP number resource community in North America, parts of the Caribbean, and certain other territories around the world. I’m a long-standing member of the NANOG community with a strong track record of support for a free and open internet available to all. ---- Quote 1 might be bad style on RFG’s part, but style and eloquence have never been his strong suits. ---- People that cover up racism are worst than racists. I’m not covering up anything. I freely admit that RFG made a poor choice of words and has a particularly bad way of expressing himself. Frankly, I suspect RFG’s age and limited ability to filter his own speech leads to his use of terms he doesn’t even realize carry racist connotations. I don’t defend his choice of terminology, but I question the claim that he harbors any ill will towards any entire class of people other than criminals and spammers. ---- a meticulous researcher and brutally honest ---- Proofs ? Facts ? Data ? Ever heared on any of these ? instead of mumbling here that Coconut Guilmette is a meticulous researcher and brutally honest. I’ve never met a coconut that could speak. That’s a fact. I’m pretty sure from phone conversations and other communication I’ve had with RFG that he is not, in fact, a coconut. I’d even go so far as to say it is a fact that RFG is not a coconut. Here just one note on his "honesty", Coconut Guilmette wrote here in Nanog the text in the following link: https://imgur.com/xWSq3g3<https://imgur.com/xWSq3g3 > You do love your screenshots without context or attribution, don’t you… Yet another example of your attempts to manipulate the facts. Original full text of post here: https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2019-September/103073.html<https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2019-September/103073.html > I was never contacted by CoCT like he wrote nor anyone else was contacted, he lied to you all, not only that - but internal correspondences of CoCT proof the complete opposite of what he wrote - Alister of CoCT explained to Coconut Guilmette in his imagination what he wrote there - Coconut Guilmette will not be able to show a single proof to anything in that linked text paragraph of his. I'm willing to show evidences of the exact opposite to one respected member of Nanog and he will confirm it to the Nanog community (for example to William Herrin). I’ve reached out to Mr. Van Tonder. I will await his reply to see whose story is confirmed and post the information to the list. Evidence would, indeed, be a nice change of pace from your claims thus far. ---- Are you attempting to hide the rest of the thread from closer scrutiny while cherry-picking quotes you hope support your narrative? ---- Racism is racism, you are again trying to to justify racism. The person that called Ronald a racist and the person that called Ronald an antisemitic - both of them read everything he wrote. Huh? The person who called him a racist (Niels) retracted his claim and apologized. Did you miss that part of the thread? It was sent specifically TO YOU in addition to NANOG. As I said, you are cherry-picking the pieces of messages that you believe support your claims. I notice you again deleted my link to the actual thread. ---- Quote 3 is the most amusing in that the person all but states that you, Mr. Cohen, are acting guilty of the allegations made by RFG and that the original poster thinks you both have things to answer for. ---- No, that response regarding me was due to the lies of Coconut Guilmette like I showed above. And there were many many more lies - everything that Coconut Guilmette wrote about me was without any single proof against me - only from his imagination. Are you comparing the quote of stating that I need to answer to the lies of Coconut Guilmette to the quote which is stating that Ronald is an antisemitic ??? No, that response was entirely legitimate and specifically called out YOUR ACTIONS. ---- Ron has UI problems, to be sure. Not the least of which, he doesn’t filter and doesn’t put any effort into political correctness. He definitely lacks polish and a certain level of social skills. ---- Nice way to cover up a person which is a racist and an antisemitic, and was called a racist and an antisemitic not by me but by people which are not related to me. Again, the person who called him a racist recanted, so continuing to base your claim there doesn’t work as well as you hope. As to the claim he is antisemitic, I agree he used antisemitic language. I remain unconvinced that he harbors actual antisemitic feelings. There is a difference between a person who is genuinely antisemitic and a person who will make the mistake of using antisemitic language to describe jewish criminals. ---- I don’t think for one second that he is actually a racist or a bigot. He identifies patterns and calls out what he sees. Often without regard for the collateral damage. ---- Patterns like country-origin ? city-origin ? race-patterns ? This is called racism, you are still trying to cover up a racist and an antisemitic. Again, I think RFG’s choice of language was poor, indeed. He’s admitted as much. Racism is when the person genuinely believes that the bad actors from a particular race (or in its extended meaning, nationality, etc.) are indicative of the entire group being bad actors. While RFG’s lack of social skills (for lack of a better description) may lead to his use of such language, I remain unconvinced that he actually harbors such feelings, as indicated by his subsequent conversation with Niels. ---- You, Mr. Cohen, are not collateral. You are dead center of the wrongdoing he’s been pointing out. ---- The only wrongdoing is him not going to a complete health check and you covering up a racist and an antisemitic. I’m covering up nothing. I’ve put everything out in the open. I’m not defending RFG’s choice of language, nor would I defend his attitude if I believed that it matched his language. ---- Just because RFG used racist terms and you happen to be Israeli (and for all I know Jewish, too), doesn’t mean that his accusations against you are baseless or inaccurate. ---- or Proof-less ??? And now in this sentence you are confirming that he is a racist and antisemitic - so why you wrote all the above? Uh, no, I’m confirming that he used racist language. I never denied that. ---- Is it your claim that the following article: https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/318205-the-big-south-african-ip-address-heist-how-millions-are-made-on-the-grey-market.html<https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/318205-the-big-south-african-ip-address-heist-how-millions-are-made-on-the-grey-market.html > is entirely baseless? Do you have any documentation to support such a claim? ---- Here is the latest ordered article from the illegal anonymous organization "The Spamhaus Project" in that site: https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/350973-man-connected-to-african-ip-address-heist-running-for-board-position-at-european-ip-address-organisation.html<https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/350973-man-connected-to-african-ip-address-heist-running-for-board-position-at-european-ip-address-organisation.html > And in it you can see that is written: "It must be noted that Cohen is not being accused of any illegal activity in this report.” Yeah, that’s boilerplate to get past the legal department by turning it into an opinion piece so that any libel or defamation suit would likely be summarily dismissed. Also, technically, it’s questionable whether IP address hijacking actually constitutes criminal activity under the laws of various jurisdictions or not. Nonetheless, it is perceived as anti-social at best in this community and I suspect most of us would consider it criminal conduct under the tacit understandings that make the community and the internet work, if not under the actual laws of the various lands in question. That is the last article after the mumbo-jumbo that you linked. Sure… Care to provide any evidence to discredit said article, or are you again just asking us to take it on faith that you are the aggrieved party and the journalists, RFG, and Spamhaus are all bullying you for no legitimate reason? Owen BAE Systems will collect and process information about you that may be subject to data protection laws. For more information about how we use and disclose your personal information, how we protect your information, our legal basis to use your information, your rights and who you can contact, please refer to the relevant sections of our Privacy note at www.baesystems.com/en/cybersecurity/privacy <http://www.baesystems.com/en/cybersecurity/privacy> Please consider the environment before printing this email. This message should be regarded as confidential. If you have received this email in error please notify the sender and destroy it immediately. Statements of intent shall only become binding when confirmed in hard copy by an authorised signatory. The contents of this email may relate to dealings with other companies under the control of BAE Systems PLC, details of which can be found at http://www.baesystems.com/Businesses/index.htm.
participants (26)
-
Baldur Norddahl -
Brielle -
Bryan Fields -
bzs＠theworld.com -
Christopher Morrow -
Cooke, David -
David Hubbard -
Denys Fedoryshchenko -
Elad Cohen -
Joe Greco -
Jon Lewis -
JORDI PALET MARTINEZ -
Michael Thomas -
Mikael Abrahamsson -
Neil Hanlon -
niels=nanog＠bakker.net -
Owen DeLong -
Randy Bush -
Richard -
Rob McEwen -
Ronald F. Guilmette -
Ryan Hamel -
Shane Ronan -
Töma Gavrichenkov -
Valdis Klētnieks -
William Herrin