COVID-19 vs. our Networks
With talk of there being an involuntary statewide (WA) and then national quarantines (house arrest) for multiple weeks, has anyone put thought into the impacts of this on your networks if/when this comes to fruition? We're already pushing the limits with telecommuters / those that are WFH, but I can only imagine what things will look like with everyone stuck at home for any duration of time.
We’ve already had 1 building delay us access pushing us into an SLA breach due to COVID-19 fuckups. I mean “procedures". -Ben. -Ben Cannon CEO 6x7 Networks & 6x7 Telecom, LLC ben@6by7.net <mailto:ben@6by7.net>
On Mar 12, 2020, at 10:22 AM, g@1337.io <lists@1337.io> wrote:
With talk of there being an involuntary statewide (WA) and then national quarantines (house arrest) for multiple weeks, has anyone put thought into the impacts of this on your networks if/when this comes to fruition?
We're already pushing the limits with telecommuters / those that are WFH, but I can only imagine what things will look like with everyone stuck at home for any duration of time.
Ben; I am sure your SLA's have force majeure clauses. I mean, they must, right? On Thu, Mar 12, 2020 at 2:57 PM Ben Cannon <ben@6by7.net> wrote:
We’ve already had 1 building delay us access pushing us into an SLA breach due to COVID-19 fuckups. I mean “procedures". -Ben.
-Ben Cannon CEO 6x7 Networks & 6x7 Telecom, LLC ben@6by7.net
On Mar 12, 2020, at 10:22 AM, g@1337.io <lists@1337.io> wrote:
With talk of there being an involuntary statewide (WA) and then national quarantines (house arrest) for multiple weeks, has anyone put thought into the impacts of this on your networks if/when this comes to fruition?
We're already pushing the limits with telecommuters / those that are WFH, but I can only imagine what things will look like with everyone stuck at home for any duration of time.
-- Fletcher Kittredge GWI 207-602-1134 www.gwi.net
Oh they do, we just don’t like having to explain to our customers anything other than “we’ve fixed it before you called.” I hate downtime. -Ben Cannon CEO 6x7 Networks & 6x7 Telecom, LLC ben@6by7.net <mailto:ben@6by7.net>
On Mar 12, 2020, at 12:04 PM, Fletcher Kittredge <fkittred@gwi.net> wrote:
Ben;
I am sure your SLA's have force majeure clauses. I mean, they must, right?
On Thu, Mar 12, 2020 at 2:57 PM Ben Cannon <ben@6by7.net <mailto:ben@6by7.net>> wrote: We’ve already had 1 building delay us access pushing us into an SLA breach due to COVID-19 fuckups. I mean “procedures". -Ben.
-Ben Cannon CEO 6x7 Networks & 6x7 Telecom, LLC ben@6by7.net <mailto:ben@6by7.net>
On Mar 12, 2020, at 10:22 AM, g@1337.io <mailto:g@1337.io> <lists@1337.io <mailto:lists@1337.io>> wrote:
With talk of there being an involuntary statewide (WA) and then national quarantines (house arrest) for multiple weeks, has anyone put thought into the impacts of this on your networks if/when this comes to fruition?
We're already pushing the limits with telecommuters / those that are WFH, but I can only imagine what things will look like with everyone stuck at home for any duration of time.
-- Fletcher Kittredge GWI 207-602-1134 www.gwi.net <http://www.gwi.net/>
On March 12, 2020 10:22 AM, g@1337.io wrote:
With talk of there being an involuntary statewide (WA) and then national quarantines (house arrest) for multiple weeks, has anyone put thought into the impacts of this on your networks if/when this comes to fruition?
No WFH policy here yet, but I've unpacked a couple of our ASAs from before our most recent edge refresh to run AnyConnect for some of our remote sites. I'm not expecting too much load being that we're not a particularly large company, but it's better to have an extra couple RU filled up and happily whirring away than to get a phone call at 5am when everyone in Eastern Time logs in and the throughput drops like the Dow Jones. I'm more worried about the lead times on new hardware skyrocketing than the impact of having 8-10x the teleworkers. At least we can still fulfill orders for software licenses... -- Troy
On Mar 12, 2020, at 3:00 PM, Troy Martin <tmartin@charter.ca> wrote:
On March 12, 2020 10:22 AM, g@1337.io wrote:
With talk of there being an involuntary statewide (WA) and then national quarantines (house arrest) for multiple weeks, has anyone put thought into the impacts of this on your networks if/when this comes to fruition?
No WFH policy here yet, but I've unpacked a couple of our ASAs from before our most recent edge refresh to run AnyConnect for some of our remote sites. I'm not expecting too much load being that we're not a particularly large company, but it's better to have an extra couple RU filled up and happily whirring away than to get a phone call at 5am when everyone in Eastern Time logs in and the throughput drops like the Dow Jones.
I'm more worried about the lead times on new hardware skyrocketing than the impact of having 8-10x the teleworkers. At least we can still fulfill orders for software licenses…
We are all on a split VPN here and slowly moving to a no-VPN solution with some users already on that. They are finding things that aren’t quite covered right or properly, but that list is slowly shrinking. I’m expecting that many places will be moving from a full VPN to a split solution. At my prior employer we did split VPN as well for v4 and full for V6 as not everyone had native v6, so split didn’t make sense there. (Those with native v6 did gripe, but it was better to have a consistent solution). I’m expecting that despite the usual game and download/streaming events, the baseline usage during the daytime is going to tick up significantly eating into network margin. Hopefully everyone has your upgrades on order due to the aforementioned lead-time issues. Hopefully everything is back to normal in 4-6 weeks. I’m looking forward to a few people learning how to WFH and expecting many people to realize how much they don’t get along as well when they’re in the house all day with the kids. We have an internal thread going on the WFH tips: #1 Take a break. That walk you would take to Starbucks or whatever, build something comparable into it at home. There’s a few other pro-tips, but the take a break one is one I feel is important. - Jared
On 12/Mar/20 21:37, Jared Mauch wrote:
I’m expecting that despite the usual game and download/streaming events, the baseline usage during the daytime is going to tick up significantly eating into network margin. Hopefully everyone has your upgrades on order due to the aforementioned lead-time issues. Hopefully everything is back to normal in 4-6 weeks.
On this side of the world, no major policies yet to force staff to work from home. But we are currently facing plenty of power generation shortages in South Africa specifically, and while offices have generators and such, most homes do not. So the problem with working from home is some people won't be able to until they either install alternative power sources or national power generation normalizes. Over the years, we've built a myriad of pfSense-based OpenVPN servers across several countries and cities so staff can always connect to the closest one when traveling or working from home. Traffic flow is non-split, and because they've been upgraded almost every year, we don't anticipate load issues if more people are out of the office. We've reduced reliance on internal VoIP PABX systems for conference calls since dumping WebEx and going Zoom nearly 2 years ago. Everyone knows how to use it, and we use it rather frequently, so folk can still have their meetings as usual. Mark.
I like the topic, but I think we should dispense with comments like 'house arrest'. On Thu, Mar 12, 2020 at 2:47 PM g@1337.io <lists@1337.io> wrote:
With talk of there being an involuntary statewide (WA) and then national quarantines (house arrest) for multiple weeks, has anyone put thought into the impacts of this on your networks if/when this comes to fruition?
We're already pushing the limits with telecommuters / those that are WFH, but I can only imagine what things will look like with everyone stuck at home for any duration of time.
On Thu, Mar 12, 2020 at 1:04 PM Tom Beecher <beecher@beecher.cc> wrote:
I like the topic, but I think we should dispense with comments like 'house arrest'.
Agreed. The situation is already plenty serious as it is. Let's not add any more fuel to the fire. ...though, on a slightly related note, I've been seeing an increase in ads for "Packet Scrubbing Services" recently. Has anyone told the sales folks that's not how this spreads? ;P
On Thu, Mar 12, 2020 at 4:32 PM Matthew Petach <mpetach@netflight.com> wrote:
On Thu, Mar 12, 2020 at 1:04 PM Tom Beecher <beecher@beecher.cc> wrote:
I like the topic, but I think we should dispense with comments like 'house arrest'.
Agreed.
The situation is already plenty serious as it is.
Let's not add any more fuel to the fire.
...though, on a slightly related note, I've been seeing an increase in ads for "Packet Scrubbing Services" recently.
Has anyone told the sales folks that's not how this spreads? ;P
nice. So.. ~2 wks back I left a comment in a thread about: "using vpns is dumb" (paraphrased) and that: "You should just move your auth from 'by ip' to 'application' based'. people scrambling for vpn capacity...see what i mean? :) if all of your apps are web-based and behind a load-balancer (or dns load-balancing or...) less problems/different problems, eh? :) I still stand by the 'ugh, don't use vpns' though - if you can avoid that I mean... which really, you can .. maybe not 'right now because...' but :)
I am on the university enterprise network side and on the state research and education network ISP-ish side. Our users are the ones that will no longer be using either network, and going to their home connections, so my focus has been dealing with "AHHH something is broken" and it being that the user never used wifi for work at home, or 5 or 6 users go "AHHHHH we just dropped our RDP sessions" during the last couple of days. After teaching users traceroute and how to google "what is my IPv4 address" they were on the same ISP, crossing a peering point that is historically congested, but is already getting worse the first day of the "trial" for important staff. I am only going to be running traceroutes back and forth for like the next couple to few weeks or however long I am on house arrest. They closed our campus after spring break, which starts at 5pm tomorrow (as does my fun week of maintenances), currently for another week. I have never been so fearful of an IX as I am today. Brian Miller Network Engineering and Architecture Clemson University and the C-Light Network AS2721, AS2722, AS12148 On 3/12/20, 2:45 PM, "NANOG on behalf of g@1337.io" <nanog-bounces@nanog.org on behalf of lists@1337.io> wrote: With talk of there being an involuntary statewide (WA) and then national quarantines (house arrest) for multiple weeks, has anyone put thought into the impacts of this on your networks if/when this comes to fruition? We're already pushing the limits with telecommuters / those that are WFH, but I can only imagine what things will look like with everyone stuck at home for any duration of time.
Just imagine all of those people streaming Netflix and playing COD all day instead of only a few hours at night. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP ----- Original Message ----- From: "g@1337.io" <lists@1337.io> To: nanog@nanog.org Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2020 12:22:17 PM Subject: COVID-19 vs. our Networks With talk of there being an involuntary statewide (WA) and then national quarantines (house arrest) for multiple weeks, has anyone put thought into the impacts of this on your networks if/when this comes to fruition? We're already pushing the limits with telecommuters / those that are WFH, but I can only imagine what things will look like with everyone stuck at home for any duration of time.
Mike, For those nets with a higher peak in the evenings, the graphs will flatten out. If you're struggling any given weekday evening, you'll be in trouble from the start. Major events and software releases are what will use up available buffers. IMO the Disney+ surprise was a good thing. It forced networks to realize they needed more capacity. Disney+ streaming isn't what it was but if you've been adding capacity as a result of it, you're in better shape to weather the latest network surges. -- Stephen On 2020-03-12 19:02, Mike Hammett wrote:
Just imagine all of those people streaming Netflix and playing COD all day instead of only a few hours at night.
----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><https://twitter.com/mdwestix> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp><https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *From: *"g@1337.io" <lists@1337.io> *To: *nanog@nanog.org *Sent: *Thursday, March 12, 2020 12:22:17 PM *Subject: *COVID-19 vs. our Networks
With talk of there being an involuntary statewide (WA) and then national quarantines (house arrest) for multiple weeks, has anyone put thought into the impacts of this on your networks if/when this comes to fruition?
We're already pushing the limits with telecommuters / those that are WFH, but I can only imagine what things will look like with everyone stuck at home for any duration of time.
I don't know but we just issued travel restrictions to the United States as it is now a Hot Spot for the unrestricted spread of the coronavirus which causes COVID-19. -- The fact that there's a Highway to Hell but only a Stairway to Heaven says a lot about anticipated traffic volume.
-----Original Message----- From: NANOG <nanog-bounces@nanog.org> On Behalf Of g@1337.io Sent: Thursday, 12 March, 2020 11:22 To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: COVID-19 vs. our Networks
With talk of there being an involuntary statewide (WA) and then national quarantines (house arrest) for multiple weeks, has anyone put thought into the impacts of this on your networks if/when this comes to fruition?
We're already pushing the limits with telecommuters / those that are WFH, but I can only imagine what things will look like with everyone stuck at home for any duration of time.
On Thu, 12 Mar 2020 18:08:05 -0600, "Keith Medcalf" said:
I don't know but we just issued travel restrictions to the United States as it is now a Hot Spot for the unrestricted spread of the coronavirus which causes COVID-19.
Hopefully they're more sensible restrictions than the US policy that prohibits travel from most of Europe except the UK... but only for foreigners. If you're a US citizen, you're still perfectly welcome to go to Italy and come home with a few extra microbes to pass around a week after you return. The word for anybody who designs a network firewall with that sort of logic is "pwned". Just sayin'. (Fortunately, I'm in a position to hide in my apartment and only emerge for grocery shopping at 2AM until things wind down... Hope everybody else has a good contingency plan)
I hear enough politics on social media and tv , please leave it off of this list. On Thu, Mar 12, 2020 at 10:37 PM Valdis Klētnieks <valdis.kletnieks@vt.edu> wrote:
On Thu, 12 Mar 2020 18:08:05 -0600, "Keith Medcalf" said:
I don't know but we just issued travel restrictions to the United States as it is now a Hot Spot for the unrestricted spread of the coronavirus which causes COVID-19.
Hopefully they're more sensible restrictions than the US policy that prohibits travel from most of Europe except the UK... but only for foreigners. If you're a US citizen, you're still perfectly welcome to go to Italy and come home with a few extra microbes to pass around a week after you return.
The word for anybody who designs a network firewall with that sort of logic is "pwned". Just sayin'.
(Fortunately, I'm in a position to hide in my apartment and only emerge for grocery shopping at 2AM until things wind down... Hope everybody else has a good contingency plan)
On Thursday, 12 March, 2020 20:37, Valdis Kletnieks <valdis.kletnieks@vt.edu> wrote:
On Thu, 12 Mar 2020 18:08:05 -0600, "Keith Medcalf" said:
I don't know but we just issued travel restrictions to the United States as it is now a Hot Spot for the unrestricted spread of the coronavirus which causes COVID-19.
Hopefully they're more sensible restrictions than the US policy that prohibits travel from most of Europe except the UK... but only for foreigners. If you're a US citizen, you're still perfectly welcome to go to Italy and come home with a few extra microbes to pass around a week after you return.
No idea what the policy for foreigners is, as that is a matter of Federal jurisdiction. And our Prime Minister is currently in "self-isolation" apparently.
The word for anybody who designs a network firewall with that sort of logic is "pwned". Just sayin'.
These are Provincial policies. The Federal Government cannot prohibit Canadian citizens from entering Canada but the Province is in charge of matter of Health and Civil Rights, so as soon as they enter the Province from outside Canada they are "requested" to self-isolate for 14-days. This is for citizens. Don't know what the policy is for non-Canadians.
(Fortunately, I'm in a position to hide in my apartment and only emerge for grocery shopping at 2AM until things wind down... Hope everybody else has a good contingency plan)
Yeah, sounds like a plan. -- The fact that there's a Highway to Hell but only a Stairway to Heaven says a lot about anticipated traffic volume.
First time posting, little anxious. Currently under isolation here in Saskatchewan, it was a self isolation till met with a doctor who ordered it, I doubt was at risk, was in Southern Italy as Northern Italy was breaking out. Rather disappointed with the provinces "meh" maybe come in and get tested, "meh" maybe not. As I've read there are no restrictions on incoming passengers, citizens or not. Quarantining is only done if you report you've been to the Hubei province. Citizens and PRs have to be let in, period, part of the charter (section 6) although being let in whilst under quarantine and being let out into the public are two different things, both are legal. Little surprised Canada doesn't have higher cases than we do. Once concern I've been thinking about is hardware maintenance under lock downs and quarantines. Do politicians allow people only out to repair? or will they allow organizations and their employees to be out and do expansion to deal with the enviable surge in traffic? What about in Italy where only pharmacies and groceries are open and entropy hits equipment? Stay safe, isolate your subnets and yourself ;) Sincerely, Keaton Alexander Guger Lair Red Lily Internet On 2020-03-13 3:01 a.m., Keith Medcalf wrote:
On Thursday, 12 March, 2020 20:37, Valdis Kletnieks <valdis.kletnieks@vt.edu> wrote:
I don't know but we just issued travel restrictions to the United States as it is now a Hot Spot for the unrestricted spread of the coronavirus which causes COVID-19. Hopefully they're more sensible restrictions than the US policy that
On Thu, 12 Mar 2020 18:08:05 -0600, "Keith Medcalf" said: prohibits travel from most of Europe except the UK... but only for foreigners. If you're a US citizen, you're still perfectly welcome to go to Italy and come home with a few extra microbes to pass around a week after you return. No idea what the policy for foreigners is, as that is a matter of Federal jurisdiction. And our Prime Minister is currently in "self-isolation" apparently.
The word for anybody who designs a network firewall with that sort of logic is "pwned". Just sayin'. These are Provincial policies. The Federal Government cannot prohibit Canadian citizens from entering Canada but the Province is in charge of matter of Health and Civil Rights, so as soon as they enter the Province from outside Canada they are "requested" to self-isolate for 14-days. This is for citizens. Don't know what the policy is for non-Canadians.
(Fortunately, I'm in a position to hide in my apartment and only emerge for grocery shopping at 2AM until things wind down... Hope everybody else has a good contingency plan) Yeah, sounds like a plan.
… as soon as they enter the Province from outside Canada they are "requested" to self-isolate for 14-days. This is for citizens. Don't know what the policy is for non-Canadians.
Maybe not so much in practice. I landed at Pearson late last night, returning from South Africa via Amsterdam. Other than the standard passport checks, no sign of any screening. Yay Doug Ford and his merry men. I’m in self-quarantine for the next 14 days, working from home, in case of any symptoms. I obviously hope the there are none, and that I can go back to visit clients, but I feel that that would be a really stupid thing to do right now. In the meantime, schools are shut down, and I have two children back home from university. paul
(Fortunately, I'm in a position to hide in my apartment and only emerge for grocery shopping at 2AM until things wind down... Hope everybody else has a good contingency plan)
Yeah, sounds like a plan.
-- The fact that there's a Highway to Hell but only a Stairway to Heaven says a lot about anticipated traffic volume.
On 13/Mar/20 04:36, Valdis Kl ē tnieks wrote:
(Fortunately, I'm in a position to hide in my apartment and only emerge for grocery shopping at 2AM until things wind down... Hope everybody else has a good contingency plan)
I generally work from home most days of the month anyway... get more done this way :-). So the change for me isn't a huge one. But it will be interesting to see how the rest of my colleagues evolve with this. Mark.
On Thu, Mar 12, 2020 at 3:46 PM g@1337.io <lists@1337.io> wrote:
With talk of there being an involuntary statewide (WA) and then national quarantines (house arrest) for multiple weeks, has anyone put thought into the impacts of this on your networks if/when this comes to fruition?
We're already pushing the limits with telecommuters / those that are WFH, but I can only imagine what things will look like with everyone stuck at home for any duration of time.
People will turn to you and every other ISP hoping you keep them online. So besides demand issues, keeping your network up will be important to a whole lot of people. Rubens
Its already happening in Italy, and now that schools are shutting down here as well, its going to get interesting: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-12/housebound-italian-kids-s... The ultimate traffic test is coming, looking forward to hearing about it on this thread. Maybe its a good time to start a communication channel between content providers/gaming companies and ISPs/CDNs. On Fri, Mar 13, 2020 at 11:22 AM Rubens Kuhl <rubensk@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, Mar 12, 2020 at 3:46 PM g@1337.io <lists@1337.io> wrote:
With talk of there being an involuntary statewide (WA) and then national quarantines (house arrest) for multiple weeks, has anyone put thought into the impacts of this on your networks if/when this comes to fruition?
We're already pushing the limits with telecommuters / those that are WFH, but I can only imagine what things will look like with everyone stuck at home for any duration of time.
People will turn to you and every other ISP hoping you keep them online. So besides demand issues, keeping your network up will be important to a whole lot of people.
Rubens
I think under circumstances like this, I could definitely see some of the online based games shutting services down. - Mike Bolitho On Fri, Mar 13, 2020 at 2:41 PM Ahmed Borno <amaged@gmail.com> wrote:
Its already happening in Italy, and now that schools are shutting down here as well, its going to get interesting:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-12/housebound-italian-kids-s...
The ultimate traffic test is coming, looking forward to hearing about it on this thread.
Maybe its a good time to start a communication channel between content providers/gaming companies and ISPs/CDNs.
On Fri, Mar 13, 2020 at 11:22 AM Rubens Kuhl <rubensk@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, Mar 12, 2020 at 3:46 PM g@1337.io <lists@1337.io> wrote:
With talk of there being an involuntary statewide (WA) and then national quarantines (house arrest) for multiple weeks, has anyone put thought into the impacts of this on your networks if/when this comes to fruition?
We're already pushing the limits with telecommuters / those that are WFH, but I can only imagine what things will look like with everyone stuck at home for any duration of time.
People will turn to you and every other ISP hoping you keep them online. So besides demand issues, keeping your network up will be important to a whole lot of people.
Rubens
On Fri, Mar 13, 2020 at 2:51 PM Mike Bolitho <mikebolitho@gmail.com> wrote:
I think under circumstances like this, I could definitely see some of the online based games shutting services down.
Next you'll have us actually reading books! -- Joe Hamelin, W7COM, Tulalip, WA, +1 (360) 474-7474
I think under circumstances like this, I could definitely see some of the online based games shutting services down.
How so? Signed, Someone who works for an online gaming company and has heard nothing of this. -- Hugo Slabbert | email, xmpp/jabber: hugo@slabnet.com pgp key: B178313E | also on Signal On Fri, Mar 13, 2020 at 2:52 PM Mike Bolitho <mikebolitho@gmail.com> wrote:
I think under circumstances like this, I could definitely see some of the online based games shutting services down.
- Mike Bolitho
On Fri, Mar 13, 2020 at 2:41 PM Ahmed Borno <amaged@gmail.com> wrote:
Its already happening in Italy, and now that schools are shutting down here as well, its going to get interesting:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-12/housebound-italian-kids-s...
The ultimate traffic test is coming, looking forward to hearing about it on this thread.
Maybe its a good time to start a communication channel between content providers/gaming companies and ISPs/CDNs.
On Fri, Mar 13, 2020 at 11:22 AM Rubens Kuhl <rubensk@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, Mar 12, 2020 at 3:46 PM g@1337.io <lists@1337.io> wrote:
With talk of there being an involuntary statewide (WA) and then national quarantines (house arrest) for multiple weeks, has anyone put thought into the impacts of this on your networks if/when this comes to fruition?
We're already pushing the limits with telecommuters / those that are WFH, but I can only imagine what things will look like with everyone stuck at home for any duration of time.
People will turn to you and every other ISP hoping you keep them online. So besides demand issues, keeping your network up will be important to a whole lot of people.
Rubens
Hi, I don't know where y'all live, but here in the SF Bay Area, pretty much all public and private schools have closed down. My school district (in Santa Clara County) will be closed until Spring Break. The impact of all these bored school kids on the networks due to gaming might cause some issues. I know that if I'm working from home and my videoconferencing slows down because of someones gaming, I'm taking the necessary action (read, change some rules on my firewall). Thanks, Sabri ----- On Mar 13, 2020, at 4:12 PM, Hugo Slabbert <hugo@slabnet.com> wrote:
I think under circumstances like this, I could definitely see some of the online based games shutting services down. How so?
Signed,
Someone who works for an online gaming company and has heard nothing of this.
-- Hugo Slabbert | email, xmpp/jabber: [ mailto:hugo@slabnet.com | hugo@slabnet.com ] pgp key: B178313E | also on Signal
On Fri, Mar 13, 2020 at 2:52 PM Mike Bolitho < [ mailto:mikebolitho@gmail.com | mikebolitho@gmail.com ] > wrote:
I think under circumstances like this, I could definitely see some of the online based games shutting services down.
- Mike Bolitho
On Fri, Mar 13, 2020 at 2:41 PM Ahmed Borno < [ mailto:amaged@gmail.com | amaged@gmail.com ] > wrote:
Its already happening in Italy, and now that schools are shutting down here as well, its going to get interesting: [ https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-12/housebound-italian-kids-s... | https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-12/housebound-italian-kids-s... ]
The ultimate traffic test is coming, looking forward to hearing about it on this thread.
Maybe its a good time to start a communication channel between content providers/gaming companies and ISPs/CDNs.
On Fri, Mar 13, 2020 at 11:22 AM Rubens Kuhl < [ mailto:rubensk@gmail.com | rubensk@gmail.com ] > wrote:
On Thu, Mar 12, 2020 at 3:46 PM [ mailto:g@1337.io | g@1337.io ] < [ mailto:lists@1337.io | lists@1337.io ] > wrote:
With talk of there being an involuntary statewide (WA) and then national quarantines (house arrest) for multiple weeks, has anyone put thought into the impacts of this on your networks if/when this comes to fruition?
We're already pushing the limits with telecommuters / those that are WFH, but I can only imagine what things will look like with everyone stuck at home for any duration of time.
People will turn to you and every other ISP hoping you keep them online. So besides demand issues, keeping your network up will be important to a whole lot of people.
Rubens
Playing games doesn't take much bandwidth. Downloading games does. So as long as everyone already has their games and there's no updates, playing the game is typically under 100 kbps which is negligible compared to streaming video which takes 1 to 25 mbps. On Fri, Mar 13, 2020, 8:52 PM Sabri Berisha <sabri@cluecentral.net> wrote:
Hi,
I don't know where y'all live, but here in the SF Bay Area, pretty much all public and private schools have closed down. My school district (in Santa Clara County) will be closed until Spring Break.
The impact of all these bored school kids on the networks due to gaming might cause some issues. I know that if I'm working from home and my videoconferencing slows down because of someones gaming, I'm taking the necessary action (read, change some rules on my firewall).
Thanks,
Sabri
----- On Mar 13, 2020, at 4:12 PM, Hugo Slabbert <hugo@slabnet.com> wrote:
I think under circumstances like this, I could definitely see some of the
online based games shutting services down.
How so?
Signed,
Someone who works for an online gaming company and has heard nothing of this.
-- Hugo Slabbert | email, xmpp/jabber: hugo@slabnet.com pgp key: B178313E | also on Signal
On Fri, Mar 13, 2020 at 2:52 PM Mike Bolitho <mikebolitho@gmail.com> wrote:
I think under circumstances like this, I could definitely see some of the online based games shutting services down.
- Mike Bolitho
On Fri, Mar 13, 2020 at 2:41 PM Ahmed Borno <amaged@gmail.com> wrote:
Its already happening in Italy, and now that schools are shutting down here as well, its going to get interesting:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-12/housebound-italian-kids-s...
The ultimate traffic test is coming, looking forward to hearing about it on this thread.
Maybe its a good time to start a communication channel between content providers/gaming companies and ISPs/CDNs.
On Fri, Mar 13, 2020 at 11:22 AM Rubens Kuhl <rubensk@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, Mar 12, 2020 at 3:46 PM g@1337.io <lists@1337.io> wrote:
With talk of there being an involuntary statewide (WA) and then national quarantines (house arrest) for multiple weeks, has anyone put thought into the impacts of this on your networks if/when this comes to fruition?
We're already pushing the limits with telecommuters / those that are WFH, but I can only imagine what things will look like with everyone stuck at home for any duration of time.
People will turn to you and every other ISP hoping you keep them online. So besides demand issues, keeping your network up will be important to a whole lot of people.
Rubens
You don’t have kids, do you… They have the attention span of Koi these days. They’ll play most games for about 15 minutes or so before downloading the next one. (At least that’s been my observation of behavior among my GF’s daughter and her friends). Owen
On Mar 13, 2020, at 20:31 , Darin Steffl <darin.steffl@mnwifi.com> wrote:
Playing games doesn't take much bandwidth. Downloading games does. So as long as everyone already has their games and there's no updates, playing the game is typically under 100 kbps which is negligible compared to streaming video which takes 1 to 25 mbps.
On Fri, Mar 13, 2020, 8:52 PM Sabri Berisha <sabri@cluecentral.net <mailto:sabri@cluecentral.net>> wrote: Hi,
I don't know where y'all live, but here in the SF Bay Area, pretty much all public and private schools have closed down. My school district (in Santa Clara County) will be closed until Spring Break.
The impact of all these bored school kids on the networks due to gaming might cause some issues. I know that if I'm working from home and my videoconferencing slows down because of someones gaming, I'm taking the necessary action (read, change some rules on my firewall).
Thanks,
Sabri
----- On Mar 13, 2020, at 4:12 PM, Hugo Slabbert <hugo@slabnet.com <mailto:hugo@slabnet.com>> wrote: I think under circumstances like this, I could definitely see some of the online based games shutting services down.
How so?
Signed,
Someone who works for an online gaming company and has heard nothing of this.
-- Hugo Slabbert | email, xmpp/jabber: hugo@slabnet.com <mailto:hugo@slabnet.com> pgp key: B178313E | also on Signal
On Fri, Mar 13, 2020 at 2:52 PM Mike Bolitho <mikebolitho@gmail.com <mailto:mikebolitho@gmail.com>> wrote: I think under circumstances like this, I could definitely see some of the online based games shutting services down.
- Mike Bolitho
On Fri, Mar 13, 2020 at 2:41 PM Ahmed Borno <amaged@gmail.com <mailto:amaged@gmail.com>> wrote: Its already happening in Italy, and now that schools are shutting down here as well, its going to get interesting: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-12/housebound-italian-kids-s... <https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-12/housebound-italian-kids-strain-network-with-fortnite-marathon>
The ultimate traffic test is coming, looking forward to hearing about it on this thread.
Maybe its a good time to start a communication channel between content providers/gaming companies and ISPs/CDNs.
On Fri, Mar 13, 2020 at 11:22 AM Rubens Kuhl <rubensk@gmail.com <mailto:rubensk@gmail.com>> wrote:
On Thu, Mar 12, 2020 at 3:46 PM g@1337.io <mailto:g@1337.io> <lists@1337.io <mailto:lists@1337.io>> wrote: With talk of there being an involuntary statewide (WA) and then national quarantines (house arrest) for multiple weeks, has anyone put thought into the impacts of this on your networks if/when this comes to fruition?
We're already pushing the limits with telecommuters / those that are WFH, but I can only imagine what things will look like with everyone stuck at home for any duration of time.
People will turn to you and every other ISP hoping you keep them online. So besides demand issues, keeping your network up will be important to a whole lot of people.
Rubens
The impact of all these bored school kids on the networks due to gaming might cause some issues. I know that if I'm working from home and my videoconferencing slows down because of someones gaming, I'm taking the necessary action (read, change some rules on my firewall).
People are welcome to do whatever they want on their own networks. I just didn't get the suggestion that online gaming services would shut down. Or were you saying, Mike, that online gaming would crowd out other services and so "shut down" those other services? On Fri., Mar. 13, 2020, 21:42 Owen DeLong <owen@delong.com> wrote:
You don’t have kids, do you…
They have the attention span of Koi these days. They’ll play most games for about 15 minutes or so before downloading the next one. (At least that’s been my observation of behavior among my GF’s daughter and her friends).
Owen
On Mar 13, 2020, at 20:31 , Darin Steffl <darin.steffl@mnwifi.com> wrote:
Playing games doesn't take much bandwidth. Downloading games does. So as long as everyone already has their games and there's no updates, playing the game is typically under 100 kbps which is negligible compared to streaming video which takes 1 to 25 mbps.
On Fri, Mar 13, 2020, 8:52 PM Sabri Berisha <sabri@cluecentral.net> wrote:
Hi,
I don't know where y'all live, but here in the SF Bay Area, pretty much all public and private schools have closed down. My school district (in Santa Clara County) will be closed until Spring Break.
The impact of all these bored school kids on the networks due to gaming might cause some issues. I know that if I'm working from home and my videoconferencing slows down because of someones gaming, I'm taking the necessary action (read, change some rules on my firewall).
Thanks,
Sabri
----- On Mar 13, 2020, at 4:12 PM, Hugo Slabbert <hugo@slabnet.com> wrote:
I think under circumstances like this, I could definitely see some of the
online based games shutting services down.
How so?
Signed,
Someone who works for an online gaming company and has heard nothing of this.
-- Hugo Slabbert | email, xmpp/jabber: hugo@slabnet.com pgp key: B178313E | also on Signal
On Fri, Mar 13, 2020 at 2:52 PM Mike Bolitho <mikebolitho@gmail.com> wrote:
I think under circumstances like this, I could definitely see some of the online based games shutting services down.
- Mike Bolitho
On Fri, Mar 13, 2020 at 2:41 PM Ahmed Borno <amaged@gmail.com> wrote:
Its already happening in Italy, and now that schools are shutting down here as well, its going to get interesting:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-12/housebound-italian-kids-s...
The ultimate traffic test is coming, looking forward to hearing about it on this thread.
Maybe its a good time to start a communication channel between content providers/gaming companies and ISPs/CDNs.
On Fri, Mar 13, 2020 at 11:22 AM Rubens Kuhl <rubensk@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, Mar 12, 2020 at 3:46 PM g@1337.io <lists@1337.io> wrote:
With talk of there being an involuntary statewide (WA) and then national quarantines (house arrest) for multiple weeks, has anyone put thought into the impacts of this on your networks if/when this comes to fruition?
We're already pushing the limits with telecommuters / those that are WFH, but I can only imagine what things will look like with everyone stuck at home for any duration of time.
People will turn to you and every other ISP hoping you keep them online. So besides demand issues, keeping your network up will be important to a whole lot of people.
Rubens
Basically that. It's probably more streaming services that could crowd out what would be considered "mission critical" infrastructure. Maybe the Netflixs and Hulus of the world will limit 4K streaming or something along those lines. Basically cap resolution to 720p for the time being. - Mike Bolitho On Sat, Mar 14, 2020 at 1:06 AM Hugo Slabbert <hugo@slabnet.com> wrote:
The impact of all these bored school kids on the networks due to gaming might cause some issues. I know that if I'm working from home and my videoconferencing slows down because of someones gaming, I'm taking the necessary action (read, change some rules on my firewall).
People are welcome to do whatever they want on their own networks. I just didn't get the suggestion that online gaming services would shut down. Or were you saying, Mike, that online gaming would crowd out other services and so "shut down" those other services?
On Fri., Mar. 13, 2020, 21:42 Owen DeLong <owen@delong.com> wrote:
You don’t have kids, do you…
They have the attention span of Koi these days. They’ll play most games for about 15 minutes or so before downloading the next one. (At least that’s been my observation of behavior among my GF’s daughter and her friends).
Owen
On Mar 13, 2020, at 20:31 , Darin Steffl <darin.steffl@mnwifi.com> wrote:
Playing games doesn't take much bandwidth. Downloading games does. So as long as everyone already has their games and there's no updates, playing the game is typically under 100 kbps which is negligible compared to streaming video which takes 1 to 25 mbps.
On Fri, Mar 13, 2020, 8:52 PM Sabri Berisha <sabri@cluecentral.net> wrote:
Hi,
I don't know where y'all live, but here in the SF Bay Area, pretty much all public and private schools have closed down. My school district (in Santa Clara County) will be closed until Spring Break.
The impact of all these bored school kids on the networks due to gaming might cause some issues. I know that if I'm working from home and my videoconferencing slows down because of someones gaming, I'm taking the necessary action (read, change some rules on my firewall).
Thanks,
Sabri
----- On Mar 13, 2020, at 4:12 PM, Hugo Slabbert <hugo@slabnet.com> wrote:
I think under circumstances like this, I could definitely see some of
the online based games shutting services down.
How so?
Signed,
Someone who works for an online gaming company and has heard nothing of this.
-- Hugo Slabbert | email, xmpp/jabber: hugo@slabnet.com pgp key: B178313E | also on Signal
On Fri, Mar 13, 2020 at 2:52 PM Mike Bolitho <mikebolitho@gmail.com> wrote:
I think under circumstances like this, I could definitely see some of the online based games shutting services down.
- Mike Bolitho
On Fri, Mar 13, 2020 at 2:41 PM Ahmed Borno <amaged@gmail.com> wrote:
Its already happening in Italy, and now that schools are shutting down here as well, its going to get interesting:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-12/housebound-italian-kids-s...
The ultimate traffic test is coming, looking forward to hearing about it on this thread.
Maybe its a good time to start a communication channel between content providers/gaming companies and ISPs/CDNs.
On Fri, Mar 13, 2020 at 11:22 AM Rubens Kuhl <rubensk@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, Mar 12, 2020 at 3:46 PM g@1337.io <lists@1337.io> wrote:
> With talk of there being an involuntary statewide (WA) and then > national quarantines (house arrest) for multiple weeks, has anyone put > thought into the impacts of this on your networks if/when this comes to > fruition? > > We're already pushing the limits with telecommuters / those that are > WFH, but I can only imagine what things will look like with everyone stuck > at home for any duration of time. >
People will turn to you and every other ISP hoping you keep them online. So besides demand issues, keeping your network up will be important to a whole lot of people.
Rubens
On 14/Mar/20 18:16, Mike Bolitho wrote:
Basically that. It's probably more streaming services that could crowd out what would be considered "mission critical" infrastructure. Maybe the Netflixs and Hulus of the world will limit 4K streaming or something along those lines. Basically cap resolution to 720p for the time being.
And discount the customers who pay for 4K, for the period :-)? I'm sure there are networks (and customers) who aren't going to say hauling 4K bits is an issue. Mark.
On Sat, Mar 14, 2020, at 04:31, Darin Steffl wrote:
Playing games doesn't take much bandwidth. Downloading games does. So as long as everyone already has their games and there's no updates, playing the game is typically under 100 kbps which is negligible compared to streaming video which takes 1 to 25 mbps.
My experience at $job[$now] (IXP) and $job[-1] (ISP with residential users) show otherwise. ISP-side traffic comes inbound from ASNs hosting gaming platforms, and IXP-side, gaming platforms have no issues taking 100G ports and pushing lots of traffic on them. Ratio-wise, they seem very much "heavy outbound". When new games are released, we see extra traffic from CDNs. Even if a game does not generate much traffic, in a MMO context every user pushes one data stream but receives several ones. And there may be reasons (avoiding cheats) where traffic pushed from the gaming platform contains more then each user's actions. IMO, it depends on how game handles inter-player communication. I do recall playing some serverless networked games some 15-20 years ago, with 3 players each on their own ADSL or cable, and the upstream (in the 512-800 Kbps range) never getting saturated.
Somewhat of a duplicate reply here to another thread... We have noticed as the organization has been sending various teams to WFH, an increase in bandwidth to our various VPN services. It's been creeping up daily. we are in process of upgrading our bandwidth to these areas to support this. On Sat, Mar 14, 2020 at 6:25 AM Radu-Adrian Feurdean < nanog@radu-adrian.feurdean.net> wrote:
On Sat, Mar 14, 2020, at 04:31, Darin Steffl wrote:
Playing games doesn't take much bandwidth. Downloading games does. So as long as everyone already has their games and there's no updates, playing the game is typically under 100 kbps which is negligible compared to streaming video which takes 1 to 25 mbps.
My experience at $job[$now] (IXP) and $job[-1] (ISP with residential users) show otherwise. ISP-side traffic comes inbound from ASNs hosting gaming platforms, and IXP-side, gaming platforms have no issues taking 100G ports and pushing lots of traffic on them. Ratio-wise, they seem very much "heavy outbound". When new games are released, we see extra traffic from CDNs. Even if a game does not generate much traffic, in a MMO context every user pushes one data stream but receives several ones. And there may be reasons (avoiding cheats) where traffic pushed from the gaming platform contains more then each user's actions. IMO, it depends on how game handles inter-player communication. I do recall playing some serverless networked games some 15-20 years ago, with 3 players each on their own ADSL or cable, and the upstream (in the 512-800 Kbps range) never getting saturated.
My kid has enough homework to reduce her gaming to normal levels. If your kid doesn’t, perhaps you’ll want to supplement it. ;-) Owen
On Mar 13, 2020, at 18:52 , Sabri Berisha <sabri@cluecentral.net> wrote:
Hi,
I don't know where y'all live, but here in the SF Bay Area, pretty much all public and private schools have closed down. My school district (in Santa Clara County) will be closed until Spring Break.
The impact of all these bored school kids on the networks due to gaming might cause some issues. I know that if I'm working from home and my videoconferencing slows down because of someones gaming, I'm taking the necessary action (read, change some rules on my firewall).
Thanks,
Sabri
----- On Mar 13, 2020, at 4:12 PM, Hugo Slabbert <hugo@slabnet.com> wrote: I think under circumstances like this, I could definitely see some of the online based games shutting services down.
How so?
Signed,
Someone who works for an online gaming company and has heard nothing of this.
-- Hugo Slabbert | email, xmpp/jabber: hugo@slabnet.com <mailto:hugo@slabnet.com> pgp key: B178313E | also on Signal
On Fri, Mar 13, 2020 at 2:52 PM Mike Bolitho <mikebolitho@gmail.com <mailto:mikebolitho@gmail.com>> wrote: I think under circumstances like this, I could definitely see some of the online based games shutting services down.
- Mike Bolitho
On Fri, Mar 13, 2020 at 2:41 PM Ahmed Borno <amaged@gmail.com <mailto:amaged@gmail.com>> wrote: Its already happening in Italy, and now that schools are shutting down here as well, its going to get interesting: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-12/housebound-italian-kids-s... <https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-12/housebound-italian-kids-strain-network-with-fortnite-marathon>
The ultimate traffic test is coming, looking forward to hearing about it on this thread.
Maybe its a good time to start a communication channel between content providers/gaming companies and ISPs/CDNs.
On Fri, Mar 13, 2020 at 11:22 AM Rubens Kuhl <rubensk@gmail.com <mailto:rubensk@gmail.com>> wrote:
On Thu, Mar 12, 2020 at 3:46 PM g@1337.io <mailto:g@1337.io> <lists@1337.io <mailto:lists@1337.io>> wrote: With talk of there being an involuntary statewide (WA) and then national quarantines (house arrest) for multiple weeks, has anyone put thought into the impacts of this on your networks if/when this comes to fruition?
We're already pushing the limits with telecommuters / those that are WFH, but I can only imagine what things will look like with everyone stuck at home for any duration of time.
People will turn to you and every other ISP hoping you keep them online. So besides demand issues, keeping your network up will be important to a whole lot of people.
Rubens
participants (27)
-
A. Pishdadi -
Ahmed Borno -
Ben Cannon -
Brian K Miller -
Christopher Morrow -
Craig -
Darin Steffl -
Fletcher Kittredge -
g＠1337.io -
Hugo Slabbert -
Jared Mauch -
Joe Hamelin -
Keaton Alexander Guger Lair -
Keith Medcalf -
Mark Tinka -
Matthew Petach -
Mike Bolitho -
Mike Hammett -
Owen DeLong -
Paul Nash -
Radu-Adrian Feurdean -
Rubens Kuhl -
Sabri Berisha -
Stephen Fulton -
Tom Beecher -
Troy Martin -
Valdis Klētnieks