Ah, yes... re-enter the experiences of Compuserve. For that, I give you Telecom '96 and section 230 which, they think, makes them exempt from such things. Regardless, there are a whole lot of little triggering pebbles that risk being trodden upon here. From monopolist behaviour to basic discrimination (just because you're a private company, you do not have the right to descriminate in who you are willing to do business with. Wasn't that the whole point of the wedding thing?), there are many things to be careful of here, even though it will probably be a hard sell. Still, damned irresponsible to risk touch that precedent, IMO. It means a whole lot of flak comes around to the rest of us. On Sun, Jan 10, 2021 at 08:42:56AM -0500, sronan@ronan-online.com wrote:

While Amazon is absolutely within their rights to suspend anyone they want for violation of their TOS, it does create an interesting problem. Amazon is now in the content moderation business, which could potentially open them up to liability if they fail to suspend any other customer who hosts objectionable content.

When I actively hosted USENET servers, I was repeatedly warned by in-house and external counsel, not to moderate which groups I hosted based on content, less I become responsible for moderating all groups, shouldn???t that same principal apply to platforms like AWS and Twitter?

Sent from my iPhone

...

On Jan 10, 2021, at 3:24 AM, William Herrin <bill@herrin.us> wrote:

???Anybody looking for a new customer opportunity? It seems Parler is in search of a new service provider. Vendors need only provide all the proprietary AWS APIs that Parler depends upon to function.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2021/01/09/amazon-parler-suspensio...

Regards, Bill HErrin

--- Wayne Bouchard web@typo.org Network Dude http://www.typo.org/~web/

On 1/10/21 5:42 AM, sronan@ronan-online.com wrote:

While Amazon is absolutely within their rights to suspend anyone they want for violation of their TOS, it does create an interesting problem. Amazon is now in the content moderation business, which could potentially open them up to liability if they fail to suspend any other customer who hosts objectionable content.

When I actively hosted USENET servers, I was repeatedly warned by in-house and external counsel, not to moderate which groups I hosted based on content, less I become responsible for moderating all groups, shouldn’t that same principal apply to platforms like AWS and Twitter?

Is it content moderation, or just giving the boot to enabling criminal activity? Would that more providers be given the boot for enabling voice spam scams, for example. Didn't one of the $n-chan's get the boot a while back? I don't seem to recall a lot of push back about that and it was pretty much the same situation, iirc. Mike

Is that illegal though?

On Jan 10, 2021, at 10:07 AM, sronan@ronan-online.com wrote:

Another interesting angle here is that it as ruled President couldn’t block people, because his Tweets were government communication. So has Twitter now blocked government communication?

...

On Jan 10, 2021, at 9:51 AM, Michael Thomas <mike@mtcc.com> wrote:



...

...

On 1/10/21 5:42 AM, sronan@ronan-online.com wrote: While Amazon is absolutely within their rights to suspend anyone they want for violation of their TOS, it does create an interesting problem. Amazon is now in the content moderation business, which could potentially open them up to liability if they fail to suspend any other customer who hosts objectionable content.

When I actively hosted USENET servers, I was repeatedly warned by in-house and external counsel, not to moderate which groups I hosted based on content, less I become responsible for moderating all groups, shouldn’t that same principal apply to platforms like AWS and Twitter?

Is it content moderation, or just giving the boot to enabling criminal activity? Would that more providers be given the boot for enabling voice spam scams, for example. Didn't one of the $n-chan's get the boot a while back? I don't seem to recall a lot of push back about that and it was pretty much the same situation, iirc.

Mike

On 1/10/21 7:13 AM, sronan@ronan-online.com wrote:

Yes, significantly.

Two observations: 1) you know not one thing about the laws of the United States of America 2) a google search for your email's domain name leads to nothing but a blank web page, and a Facebook page for some sort of Philippine video game page and a Twitter account apparently with 0 tweets, and with 4 followers, 2 of whom seem to be porn and 2 of which seem to be MLM scams Make of all that what you will. Speaking only for myself, *plonk* - John --

at the risk of providing more heat than light, trump violated the Presidential Records Act repeatedly by later taking down (aka destroying) his own unwise tweets. this repeated violation of law using twitter itself would have been enough for twitter to either restrict his using any mechanism for revision or deletion or even account termination for aup violations. i pointed this out to them 3.91 years ago. On Sun, Jan 10, 2021, 10:12 AM Matt Hoppes < mattlists@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:

Is that illegal though?

...

On Jan 10, 2021, at 10:07 AM, sronan@ronan-online.com wrote:

Another interesting angle here is that it as ruled President couldn’t block people, because his Tweets were government communication. So has Twitter now blocked government communication?

...

On Jan 10, 2021, at 9:51 AM, Michael Thomas <mike@mtcc.com> wrote:

...

...

On 1/10/21 5:42 AM, sronan@ronan-online.com wrote: While Amazon is absolutely within their rights to suspend anyone they want for violation of their TOS, it does create an interesting problem. Amazon is now in the content moderation business, which could potentially open them up to liability if they fail to suspend any other customer who hosts objectionable content.

When I actively hosted USENET servers, I was repeatedly warned by in-house and external counsel, not to moderate which groups I hosted based on content, less I become responsible for moderating all groups, shouldn’t

 that same principal apply to platforms like AWS and Twitter?

Is it content moderation, or just giving the boot to enabling criminal activity? Would that more providers be given the boot for enabling voice spam scams, for example. Didn't one of the $n-chan's get the boot a while back? I don't seem to recall a lot of push back about that and it was pretty much the same situation, iirc.

Mike

On Sun, Jan 10, 2021 at 10:56:10AM -0500, Mark Seiden wrote:

at the risk of providing more heat than light, trump violated the Presidential Records Act repeatedly by later taking down (aka destroying) his own unwise tweets. this repeated violation of law using twitter itself would have been enough for twitter to either restrict his using any mechanism for revision or deletion or even account termination for aup violations. i pointed this out to them 3.91 years ago.

First, findings of violation of law are done in courts, not by you. Second, as specifically regards Twitter: the Library of Congress had been archiving all tweets since 2010. And only recently, on 31DEC2017, moved to archiving "some" tweets. Official records exist there. Additionally, the President has two accounts at his disposal and has demonstrated consistently different behavior between them, i.e. the @potus account is used for official communications and @realdonaldtrump for personal communications with the public. The former is indeed archived under the PRA. Third, the standard put forth in your opinion -- both ill informed and ill conceived -- would also refer to FOIA and the various States' FOI laws. If what you allege is true, the singling out of this one official is disingenuous in the extreme. -- . ___ ___ . . ___ . \ / |\ |\ \ . _\_ /__ |-\ |-\ \__

Hey look, someone posted every link to every post and video uploaded to the platform during the DC Capitol attack ... https://twitter.com/donk_enby/status/1347896132798533632 On Sun, Jan 10, 2021 at 11:02 PM Valdis Klētnieks <valdis.kletnieks@vt.edu> wrote:

On Sun, 10 Jan 2021 18:08:24 -0500, Izaac said:

...

demonstrated consistently different behavior between them, i.e. the @potus account is used for official communications and @realdonaldtrump for personal communications with the public. The former is indeed

How does that square with the White House Press Secretary's statement (never walked back as far as I know) that @realdonaldtrump tweets were official government policy statements?

On Sun, Jan 10, 2021 at 10:03:51AM -0500, sronan@ronan-online.com wrote:

Another interesting angle here is that it as ruled President couldn???t block people, because his Tweets were government communication. So has Twitter now blocked government communication?

That's not interesting or even a reasonable comparison. Twitter wasn't involved in the former. There is a huge difference in the President being told that he cannot block random citizens from reading his tweets (no Twitter involvement), and Twitter declaring that they no longer wish to provide service to the President (Twitter's right as it is their private property). The President is free to pursue alternative venues for his messaging. Conflating unrelated things and drawing bad conclusions is not useful. At some point, it seems likely that the networking community may be faced with more choices such as what Cloudflare faced with 8chan. In an ideal world, people would act responsibly and we could have the nice things like libertarian ideals, but the reality as demonstrated by the last quarter century seems to indicate otherwise, in many small and not- so-small ways. I find that distressing, but I am not so libertarian as to insist that others pay for this stuff with their lives. I don't have any idea what the correct answer is, though. ... JG -- Joe Greco - sol.net Network Services - Milwaukee, WI - http://www.sol.net "The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'"-Asimov

Conclusion: Companies are not permitted to discriminate amongst who they will have as a customer on the basis of the racial or sexual orientation (or a number of other bases). Companies are permitted to discriminate amongst who they will have as a customer using other criteria. E.g. "No shirt, no shoes, no mask, no service." Customers who disturb other customers can also get "fired" or banned by the company if they're deemed not worth the trouble...but the reason for doing so must not be illegal itself. Companies who are wary of the law may also be particularly concerned about serving customers who are using (or enabling others to use) the goods and services that company offers in ways that may violate the laws of the jurisdiction the company is under. (In some neighborhoods, Home Depot locks up all the spray paint cans, and limits sales to customers, as part of local anti-graffiti measures.) --- There are parallels in establishing or ending employment...there are certain reasons that provide a legal basis for hiring or not hiring someone, as well as reasons that provide a legal basis for firing someone. On Sun, Jan 10, 2021, 10:34 Matt Hoppes <mattlists@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:

While I don’t like it - at the end of the day a private company can make a decision to have or not have a customer (unless somehow it’s racial or sexual orientation related apparently).

Nothing is stopping Parler from spinning up their own servers. They willingly chose to use AWS.

I’m not sure either Joe. I am a staunch proponent of free expression, but I remember a time when you could just. Totally trust an e-mail header. Ms. Lady Benjamin PD Cannon, ASCE 6x7 Networks & 6x7 Telecom, LLC CEO ben@6by7.net "The only fully end-to-end encrypted global telecommunications company in the world.” FCC License KJ6FJJ Sent from my iPhone via RFC1149.

On Jan 10, 2021, at 8:25 AM, Joe Greco <jgreco@ns.sol.net> wrote:

On Sun, Jan 10, 2021 at 10:03:51AM -0500, sronan@ronan-online.com wrote:

...

Another interesting angle here is that it as ruled President couldn???t block people, because his Tweets were government communication. So has Twitter now blocked government communication?

That's not interesting or even a reasonable comparison.

Twitter wasn't involved in the former. There is a huge difference in the President being told that he cannot block random citizens from reading his tweets (no Twitter involvement), and Twitter declaring that they no longer wish to provide service to the President (Twitter's right as it is their private property). The President is free to pursue alternative venues for his messaging.

Conflating unrelated things and drawing bad conclusions is not useful.

At some point, it seems likely that the networking community may be faced with more choices such as what Cloudflare faced with 8chan. In an ideal world, people would act responsibly and we could have the nice things like libertarian ideals, but the reality as demonstrated by the last quarter century seems to indicate otherwise, in many small and not- so-small ways.

I find that distressing, but I am not so libertarian as to insist that others pay for this stuff with their lives. I don't have any idea what the correct answer is, though.

... JG -- Joe Greco - sol.net Network Services - Milwaukee, WI - http://www.sol.net "The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'"-Asimov

On Sun, Jan 10, 2021 at 7:06 AM <sronan@ronan-online.com> wrote:

Another interesting angle here is that it as ruled President couldn’t block people, because his Tweets were government communication. So has Twitter now blocked government communication?

They blocked Trump's personal account, not the White House or the official Twitter account of the President. They're perfectly within their rights to block the accounts of individuals violating their terms of service. Matt

On 1/10/21 9:48 AM, Michael Thomas wrote:

Is it content moderation, or just giving the boot to enabling criminal activity? Would that more providers be given the boot for enabling voice spam scams, for example. Didn't one of the $n-chan's get the boot a while back? I don't seem to recall a lot of push back about that and it was pretty much the same situation, iirc.

There's legit users of parler and 8-chan. Not every one is on the racist/insurrectionist/etc. sections. And who's to say they have less of a right to their unpopular speech than I have to discuss retro video games? This seems like it raises two interesting questions: 1. When should a contracted provider be able to discontinue service with little to no notice to the customer if they find their content distasteful? 2. Where do we expect legit insurrections to communicate? Should AWS/Facebook/Twitter boot those calling for violent uprisings in Hong Kong (for example). I suppose #2 is simply one mans freedom fighter is another criminal. Anyone hosting with Amazon/Google/the cloud here should be really concerned with the timing they gave them, 24 hours notice to migrate. Industry standards would seem to be at least 30 days notice. Note this is not the police/courts coming to the host with notice that they are hosting illegal content but only the opinion of the provider that they don't want to host it. I seem to recall a customer who was using provider IP space that sued and won an injunction circa 2004 against their provider allowing time to migrate. I remember reading the decision and was taken back by the decent grasp the judge had on BGP/IP space. I can see how this might be similar. Many years ago I was CoLo'd at a facility which shut off the racks of a customer at 9am on a Monday after finding said customer had poached an employee from the provider and was intending to compete with services the CoLo offered. They physically disconnected the cross connects to these racks for this and banned the customer's employees from the facility. Their counsel even told the customer "any contract is voidable at any time". Basic planning for any company should ensure you never have all your eggs in one basket. Perhaps this was a bit dumb on the customers part, but they had a contract. The cloud is just someone else's computer.. -- Bryan Fields 727-409-1194 - Voice http://bryanfields.net

On Sun, Jan 10, 2021 at 12:03 PM Michael Thomas <mike@mtcc.com> wrote:

On 1/10/21 11:11 AM, Bryan Fields wrote:

...

Anyone hosting with Amazon/Google/the cloud here should be really

concerned

...

with the timing they gave them, 24 hours notice to migrate. Industry standards would seem to be at least 30 days notice. Note this is not the police/courts coming to the host with notice that they are hosting illegal content but only the opinion of the provider that they don't want to host it.

Considering that it seems that there continues to be talk/planning of armed insurrection, I think we can forgive them for violating professional courtesy.

Mike

I thought the boot was announced after physical threats were made against Google and Apple facilities and employees for removing the app from the app stores? There's professional courtesy; but the moment you start threatening to bomb datacenters and kill employees, it's pretty clear professional courtesy has been forcibly thrown through the reinforced double-glazed energy-efficient windows and has plummeted straight through the roof of the classic Cadillac in the parking lot ten stories below. :( Matt

It’s gratifying to see the many talented engineers here working on a solution to the underlying problem: Censorship. Don’t confuse freedom of speech (which protects us from government censorship) from freedom of commerce, which is a uniquely American aspect of Internet design. As John Gilmore wisely said, “The Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it.” Let’s start helping the free market route around the censors! -mel On Jan 10, 2021, at 12:24 PM, Michael Thomas <mike@mtcc.com> wrote:  On 1/10/21 12:13 PM, Matthew Petach wrote: On Sun, Jan 10, 2021 at 12:03 PM Michael Thomas <mike@mtcc.com<mailto:mike@mtcc.com>> wrote: On 1/10/21 11:11 AM, Bryan Fields wrote:

Anyone hosting with Amazon/Google/the cloud here should be really concerned with the timing they gave them, 24 hours notice to migrate. Industry standards would seem to be at least 30 days notice. Note this is not the police/courts coming to the host with notice that they are hosting illegal content but only the opinion of the provider that they don't want to host it.

Considering that it seems that there continues to be talk/planning of armed insurrection, I think we can forgive them for violating professional courtesy. Mike I thought the boot was announced after physical threats were made against Google and Apple facilities and employees for removing the app from the app stores? There's professional courtesy; but the moment you start threatening to bomb datacenters and kill employees, it's pretty clear professional courtesy has been forcibly thrown through the reinforced double-glazed energy-efficient windows and has plummeted straight through the roof of the classic Cadillac in the parking lot ten stories below. :( Yeah, it may have been self-interest or all of the above. I really don't think that much concern needs to be given any more than the concern given to spammers and other fraudsters. "you have 30 days to move your criminal enterprise, have a good day". Bletch. Mike

You’ve described capitalism perfectly, and it works just as it should on the Internet, at least so far. Yes, the Internet has been a free market. But it won’t remain that way unless we resist censorship by a few wealthy companies. Parler, fortunately, has some backers who can foot the bill. -mel On Jan 10, 2021, at 12:40 PM, Matthew Petach <mpetach@netflight.com> wrote:  On Sun, Jan 10, 2021 at 12:29 PM Mel Beckman <mel@beckman.org<mailto:mel@beckman.org>> wrote: It’s gratifying to see the many talented engineers here working on a solution to the underlying problem: Censorship. Don’t confuse freedom of speech (which protects us from government censorship) from freedom of commerce, which is a uniquely American aspect of Internet design. As John Gilmore wisely said, “The Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it.” Let’s start helping the free market route around the censors! -mel I'm sorry, Mel The market hasn't been "free" for quite a long time. There's easy solutions to the problem--hiring really good engineers to write your own AWS-lookalike where you can host whatever content you want, hosted in buildings you've built on land you've bought. It's most definitely not free, though. I'm available to start immediately--but I charge $2M/year, plus expenses, including a full security detail to protect me from the types of people who are likely to use the platform once it's done. You're "free" to hire me--but I most definitely don't work for free. You're "free" to buy your own land to build a datacenter on; but it most definitely isn't available for free. You're "free" to buy electricity to run the servers you put in that datacenter you've built--but the electricity is most definitely not arriving for free. The part Gilmore missed is that the 'Net only routes around censorship if someone is willing to foot the bill. Matt

We’re straying pretty far into OT here but they do run a network - Trump banning TikTok because they hurt his feelings would be Stalinist. Twitter banning Trump for TOD violations is the Free Market speaking. It’s pretty fundamental to civics, participation society, and sanity in general, to get these right. Ms. Lady Benjamin PD Cannon, ASCE 6x7 Networks & 6x7 Telecom, LLC CEO ben@6by7.net "The only fully end-to-end encrypted global telecommunications company in the world.” FCC License KJ6FJJ Sent from my iPhone via RFC1149.

On Jan 10, 2021, at 9:33 PM, bzs@theworld.com wrote:

 Sometimes it's worth turning the issue around and looking at it right up the...um, whatever.

A friend who is rather right-wing (tho mostly sane) said angrily that AWS terminating Parler was "Stalinist" (apparently his metaphor for totalitarian.)

I said no, the government _forcing_ AWS to carry Parler, or Twitter to carry Trump (another 'plaint) would be "Stalinist".

Imagine if a Chinese social media company refused to carry anything posted by Xi Jinping (China's president) for similar reasoning.

Then you'd likely, one can only speculate, see "Stalinist" in action.

P.S. Does anyone know whether Trump is paid for his Twitter traffic as many celebrities are?

-- -Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die | bzs@TheWorld.com | http://www.TheWorld.com Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: +1 617-STD-WRLD | 800-THE-WRLD The World: Since 1989 | A Public Information Utility | *oo*

Then again as a network operator you don’t discriminate against what is coming through you to a user or customer ... right ? ... :-D Unless it directly impacts you or the actual customer or you’ve been served by our ubermint to do otherwise non-advantageous things whatever they may be ;-) -- J. Hellenthal The fact that there's a highway to Hell but only a stairway to Heaven says a lot about anticipated traffic volume.

On Jan 10, 2021, at 15:31, Jay Hennigan <jay@west.net> wrote:

On 1/10/21 12:40, Matthew Petach wrote:

...

There's easy solutions to the problem--hiring really good engineers to write your own AWS-lookalike where you can host whatever content you want, hosted in buildings you've built on land you've bought.

There's also the issue of carrying the packets from those servers to your audience and from your audience to those servers.

-- Jay Hennigan - jay@west.net Network Engineering - CCIE #7880 503 897-8550 - WB6RDV

On Sun, Jan 10, 2021 at 12:01:46PM -0800, Michael Thomas wrote:

Considering that it seems that there continues to be talk/planning of armed insurrection, I think we can forgive them for violating professional courtesy.

Got links? -- . ___ ___ . . ___ . \ / |\ |\ \ . _\_ /__ |-\ |-\ \__

On Sun, Jan 10, 2021 at 03:36:18PM -0800, Michael Thomas wrote:

...

On Sun, Jan 10, 2021 at 12:01:46PM -0800, Michael Thomas wrote:

...

Considering that it seems that there continues to be talk/planning of armed insurrection, I think we can forgive them for violating professional courtesy. Got links?

Ask Google, Apple and Amazon. I'm sure they have the receipts.

No, you made this claim. I am asking you. Got links? Screenshots? -- . ___ ___ . . ___ . \ / |\ |\ \ . _\_ /__ |-\ |-\ \__

On Sun, 10 Jan 2021, Michael Thomas wrote:

On 1/10/21 3:15 PM, Izaac wrote:

...

On Sun, Jan 10, 2021 at 12:01:46PM -0800, Michael Thomas wrote:

...

Considering that it seems that there continues to be talk/planning of armed insurrection, I think we can forgive them for violating professional courtesy. Got links? Ask Google, Apple and Amazon. I'm sure they have the receipts.

You made the claim. -Dan

* izaac@setec.org (Izaac) [Mon 11 Jan 2021, 00:22 CET]:

Got links?

Your message arrived like five times here but I did the google for you: https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/johnpaczkowski/amazon-parler-aws | On Parler, reaction to the impending ban was swift and outraged, with | some discussing violence against Amazon. "It would be a pity if someone | with explosives training were to pay a visit to some AWS data | centers," one person wrote. -- Niels.

To be fair, AWS has existing contract/service clauses that are very very aggressive for termination. For example, if AWS contacts you regarding the hosting of CPEV, you have 24 hours to remove it and respond, if you dont - they immediately terminate the account. So the 24 hour warning for Parlor is not new behavior for Amazon. Also, if you specifically read Amazon Customer Agreement (https://aws.amazon.com/agreement/ <https://aws.amazon.com/agreement/>), Section 6.1.a. and 7.2.b.ii. lay out basically what they did to Parlor. Section 6.1.a.iii. says" "We may suspend your or any End User’s right to access or use any portion or all of the Service Offerings immediately upon notice to you if we determine: your or an End User’s use of the Service Offerings could subject us, our affiliates, or any third party to liability" Clearly if Parlor is used to covertly coordiinate a planned attack on our government that leads to loss of lives, AWS doesn’t want to be held liable for hosting that infrastructure. The above clause requires no extended notices, it can be immediate - so 24 hours was a favor…. -John

On Jan 10, 2021, at 2:11 PM, Bryan Fields <Bryan@bryanfields.net> wrote:

On 1/10/21 9:48 AM, Michael Thomas wrote:

...

Is it content moderation, or just giving the boot to enabling criminal activity? Would that more providers be given the boot for enabling voice spam scams, for example. Didn't one of the $n-chan's get the boot a while back? I don't seem to recall a lot of push back about that and it was pretty much the same situation, iirc.

There's legit users of parler and 8-chan. Not every one is on the racist/insurrectionist/etc. sections. And who's to say they have less of a right to their unpopular speech than I have to discuss retro video games?

This seems like it raises two interesting questions:

1. When should a contracted provider be able to discontinue service with little to no notice to the customer if they find their content distasteful?

2. Where do we expect legit insurrections to communicate? Should AWS/Facebook/Twitter boot those calling for violent uprisings in Hong Kong (for example).

I suppose #2 is simply one mans freedom fighter is another criminal.

Anyone hosting with Amazon/Google/the cloud here should be really concerned with the timing they gave them, 24 hours notice to migrate. Industry standards would seem to be at least 30 days notice. Note this is not the police/courts coming to the host with notice that they are hosting illegal content but only the opinion of the provider that they don't want to host it.

I seem to recall a customer who was using provider IP space that sued and won an injunction circa 2004 against their provider allowing time to migrate. I remember reading the decision and was taken back by the decent grasp the judge had on BGP/IP space. I can see how this might be similar.

Many years ago I was CoLo'd at a facility which shut off the racks of a customer at 9am on a Monday after finding said customer had poached an employee from the provider and was intending to compete with services the CoLo offered. They physically disconnected the cross connects to these racks for this and banned the customer's employees from the facility. Their counsel even told the customer "any contract is voidable at any time". Basic planning for any company should ensure you never have all your eggs in one basket. Perhaps this was a bit dumb on the customers part, but they had a contract.

The cloud is just someone else's computer.. -- Bryan Fields

727-409-1194 - Voice http://bryanfields.net

----- Original Message -----

2. Where do we expect legit insurrections to communicate? Should AWS/Facebook/Twitter boot those calling for violent uprisings in Hong Kong (for example).

I suppose #2 is simply one mans freedom fighter is another criminal.

https://youtu.be/isMm2vF4uFs?t=281 -- Jay R. Ashworth Baylink jra@baylink.com Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100 Ashworth & Associates http://www.bcp38.info 2000 Land Rover DII St Petersburg FL USA BCP38: Ask For It By Name! +1 727 647 1274

* sronan@ronan-online.com (sronan@ronan-online.com) [Sun 10 Jan 2021, 14:46 CET]:

While Amazon is absolutely within their rights to suspend anyone they want for violation of their TOS, it does create an interesting problem. Amazon is now in the content moderation business, which could potentially open them up to liability if they fail to suspend any other customer who hosts objectionable content.

Didn't that ship sail when they booted WikiLeaks off their platform? -- Niels.

* web@typo.org (Wayne Bouchard) [Sun 10 Jan 2021, 16:40 CET]:

On Sun, Jan 10, 2021 at 04:32:29PM +0100, niels=nanog@bakker.net wrote:

...

* sronan@ronan-online.com (sronan@ronan-online.com) [Sun 10 Jan 2021, 14:46 CET]:

...

While Amazon is absolutely within their rights to suspend anyone they want for violation of their TOS, it does create an interesting problem. Amazon is now in the content moderation business, which could potentially open them up to liability if they fail to suspend any other customer who hosts objectionable content.

Didn't that ship sail when they booted WikiLeaks off their platform?

Yeah, pretty much.

See, the real issue here is AUPs which initially were used to make sure users knew that their services could not be used to facilitate illegal things and then used to keep order on the platforms by restricting abusive behavior. However the definition of "abusive" has now been extended so greatly and with constantly changing rules that it's making the statement, effectively, "if we don't like what you say, or if we don't like you or your business, sucks to be you."

It's amazing how far the world has stumbled that "fomenting violent insurrection and calling for the murder of elected officials" now falls under standard T&Cs against abusive behaviour where this used to be perfectly fine a year ago. (That was sarcasm.) -- Niels.

On Sun, Jan 10, 2021, 14:06 Keith Medcalf <kmedcalf@dessus.com> wrote:

The world is now a different place with the election of the Nazi's.

OK, it's now official. I'm invoking Godwin's Law on this thread. *plonk* Matt

Unless the courts rule or the legislators enact legislation making them a public utility. In legal circles there is a theory that platforms like Facebook, messaging services, etc. might achieve such importance to public life and discourse as to merit regulation under the grounds they are an essential utility. I am neutral regarding this idea - I have not studied it and also realize that Amazon is not strictly speaking a social media. So my point is tangential. As a big fan of the 1st amendment, but someone deeply appalled by the riot last week and keenly aware of how social media are letting the mud to the surface, I am very perplexed how to reconcile free speech and the garbage flowing through our social streets. ________________________________ From: NANOG <nanog-bounces+rod.beck=unitedcablecompany.com@nanog.org> on behalf of Brielle <bruns@2mbit.com> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2021 5:20 PM To: sronan@ronan-online.com <sronan@ronan-online.com> Cc: nanog@nanog.org <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Re: Parler They’re a private company. The same statues that give providers the right to refuse spam and block abuse give them the right to fire customers for whatever reason they want. If their contract with Parler says they can be terminated for violations of TOS / AUP or (more likely) for any reason Amazon decides, then it’s a done deal. ‘Frea Speeks’ as we liked to joking call it when spammers made the claim, is a govt thing. Private businesses aren’t bound by the 1st amendment. Sent from my iPad

On Jan 10, 2021, at 6:44 AM, sronan@ronan-online.com wrote:

While Amazon is absolutely within their rights to suspend anyone they want for violation of their TOS, it does create an interesting problem. Amazon is now in the content moderation business, which could potentially open them up to liability if they fail to suspend any other customer who hosts objectionable content.

When I actively hosted USENET servers, I was repeatedly warned by in-house and external counsel, not to moderate which groups I hosted based on content, less I become responsible for moderating all groups, shouldn’t that same principal apply to platforms like AWS and Twitter?

Sent from my iPhone

...

On Jan 10, 2021, at 3:24 AM, William Herrin <bill@herrin.us> wrote: Anybody looking for a new customer opportunity? It seems Parler is in search of a new service provider. Vendors need only provide all the proprietary AWS APIs that Parler depends upon to function. https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2021/01/09/amazon-parler-suspensio... Regards, Bill HErrin

On Sun, Jan 10, 2021 at 4:58 PM Jay Hennigan <jay@west.net> wrote:

On 1/10/21 13:50, Rod Beck wrote:

...

As a big fan of the 1st amendment, but someone deeply appalled by the riot last week and keenly aware of how social media are letting the mud to the surface, I am very perplexed how to reconcile free speech and the garbage flowing through our social streets.

The first amendment deals with the government passing laws restricting freedom of speech. It has nothing to do with to whom AWS chooses to sell their services. It is also not absolute (fire, crowded theater, etc.)

Has anyone seen a rabbit? We've traveled quite a way down the rabbit hole.

A civil discourse filled rabbit hole, and I am happy to have gone down it. Lost is the art of Civil Discourse sometimes, at least not here?

-- Jay Hennigan - jay@west.net Network Engineering - CCIE #7880 503 897-8550 - WB6RDV

Oh, geez... I was going to ignore this thread, I really was. :( On Sun, Jan 10, 2021 at 6:13 PM Keith Medcalf <kmedcalf@dessus.com> wrote:

...

The first amendment deals with the government passing laws restricting freedom of speech. It has nothing to do with to whom AWS chooses to sell their services. It is also not absolute (fire, crowded theater, etc.)

You are correct and incorrect. The First Amendment prohibits the Government from passing laws which constitute "prior restraint". It does nothing with respect to anyone other then the "Government" and its agents.

You are also incorrect. Freedom of Speech is Absolute. There is no prior restraint which precludes you from "(fire, crowded theatre, etc.)" whatever that means. That does not mean that speech does not have "consequences". The first amendment only protects against prior restraint, it does not protect against the suffering of consequences. And of course "consequences" come AFTER the speech, not BEFORE the speech.

Furthermore your "(fire, crowded theater, etc.)" (whatever the hell that means) cannot, as a matter of fact, possibly justify any action taken prior to the so-called speech having been made as that would be an assumption of fact not in evidence (also known as a hypothetical question) and the courts do not rule on hypotheticals. If you do not understand the difference then perhaps you should be sentenced to death since you have a hand, and having a hand it could hold a gun, and since it could hold a gun, you could also murder someone. So therefore you should be put to death now as "prior restraint" to prevent you from committing murder.

You're being dense. Private businesses can engage in prior restraint all they want. Airlines, for example, if they suspect you pose a risk to the other passengers on the flight, can refuse to take off while you are on the plane, or even turn the plane back around and land, and have you ejected. They don't have to wait until you've beaten up another passenger, tried to open a door mid-flight, or stabbed someone. To bring it closer to home, an ISP can refuse to provide service to someone they suspect is a spammer. They don't have to wait until the first spam is sent, they can exercise prior restraint and deny the entity service based simply on the suspicion they may be a spammer, and therefore not worth providing service to. I am neither a lawyer nor a yankee doodle and I know these facts to be

self-evident.

I am sorry to say your grasp of facts seems to be tenuous at best. :( Better luck in the next reality. Matt

In article <CAP-guGXi6wrRpCMu9CBC-GN+qB9GvRG9pvbNp+e7DTvo66KMzA@mail.gmail.com> you write:

With private organizations it gets much more complicated. No organization is compelled to publish anything. But then section 230 of the DMCA comes in and says: if you exercise editorial control over what's published then you are liable for any unlawful material which is published. ...

Sigh. This is false. 100% false. It is the exact opposite of what 47 USC 230 really says. Also, it's the CDA, not the DMCA. Please see the message I sent earlier today about section 230 and the links in it to material by actual lawyers explaining what the law does and does not say and do. R's, John

In article <CAP-guGX0oWAbmvTM=icvAbLCH5GgjxEQw9-8HJ_KHFy0gVShzw@mail.gmail.com> you write:

...

Sigh. This is false. 100% false. It is the exact opposite of what 47 USC 230 really says. Also, it's the CDA, not the DMCA.

Hi John,

I conflated some of the DMCA safe harbor stuff with the CDA publisher stuff. My bad.

I stand by the gist of what I said which, while imprecise, is consistent with what you posted. The common law precedent is that publishers are liable for what they publish. Section 230 carves out the rules for when an online service is not a publisher (which is decidedly not "always"), and while I don't have the cases on the tip of my tongue, there have been some real post-CDA head scratchers where a court decided that an online service exercised sufficient control of the content to have made itself a publisher.

I have the case law and with all due respect, you are still wrong. The cases where the provider was liable are edge cases. In the 2008 Roommates case, an apartment matching service had a questionaire that asked demographic questions that landlords can't ask. and the court held that that asking users to provide the answers made them liable for the answers. Except four years later they ruled that roommates aren't landlords so never mind. The recent Malwarebytes case said (wrongly I believe) that the good faith filtering immunity doesn't apply when one antivirus program says another is a "potentially unwanted program." FOSTA/SESTA carved out an ill-defined hole for sex trafficing. For any sort of normal content moderation, Section 230 does what it says. R's, John

On Sun, Jan 10, 2021 at 7:53 PM William Herrin <bill@herrin.us> wrote:

On Sun, Jan 10, 2021 at 6:58 PM Matthew Petach <mpetach@netflight.com> wrote:

...

Private businesses can engage in prior restraint all they want.

Hi Matt,

You've conflated a couple ideas here. Public accommodation laws were passed in the wake of Jim Crow to the effect that any business which provides services to the public must provide services to all the public. Courts have found such laws constitutional. Not to mention the plethora of common-law precedent in this area. You can set rules and enforce them but those rules can't arbitrarily exclude whole classes of people nor may they be applied capriciously.

...unless the higher calling of "religious freedom" is at stake, in which case, sure, it's OK to exclude entire classes of people, if serving them would go against your religious beliefs. precedent set by *Masterpiece Cakeshop v. Colorado Civil Rights Commission*, 584 U.S. ___ (2018) Businesses which post the sign that starts, "we reserve the right,"

are quite mistaken. If a customer is rejected and removed without good cause and thereby injured, a business can find itself on the losing end of a lawsuit.

But if a customer is simply denied service based on a category that the business provider claims is against their religious beliefs, and no injury takes place, the courts have provided precedent in support of such exclusion.

"No shirt, no shoes, no service," on the other hand, is entirely enforceable so long as that enforcement is consistent.

The legal term "prior restraint" is even more narrowly focused. It refers only to blocking publication on the grounds that the material to be published is false or otherwise harmful. The government is almost never allowed to do so. Instead, remedies are available only after the material is published.

Fair enough; I used the phrase "prior restraint" in a completely amateur and inaccurate way to indicate a business taking action against a customer prior to actual harm being done.

With private organizations it gets much more complicated. No organization is compelled to publish anything. But then section 230 of the DMCA comes in and says: if you exercise editorial control over what's published then you are liable for any unlawful material which is published. More precisely, common law precedent says you're liable for what you publish. Section 230 grants immunity to organizations who _do not_ exercise editorial control. But what is editorial control? The courts have been all over the place on that one.

Amazon, Google, and Apple did not exercise editorial control over the content; they severed a customer relationship, which is well within the rights of any business. They didn't keep Parler on the platform, but say "you can't say the following words in any of your posts" -- which would have put them on shakier grounds; they simply said "sorry, we don't want you as a customer any longer." If you're my customer, and my terms of service allow me to terminate my relationship with you at any time for a list of reasons, then I can terminate my relationship with you at any time, based on those reasons. As ISPs, we depend on TOS clauses like that to allow us to terminate customers that are DDoSing others, are attacking others, are causing harm to others, are posting illegal content, etc. If you're notified of CSEI on your platform, removing access to it and turning it over to the FBI doesn't put you in jeopardy of violating section 230 immunity. You're not acting as a moderator of content, you're enforcing your terms of service and cooperating with law enforcement. If I kick a customer off because their check bounced, I'm not moderating their content, I'm severing my relationship with a customer for non-payment. Of course, I'm still a complete layman, and I bow to John Levine's *much* more nuanced and accurate explanation of the difference, which I've hopelessly mangled in this discussion. ^_^;;

Regards, Bill Herrin

Matt

Maybe read Holmes' dissent where he uses the phrase "fire in a crowded theater" or at least listen to the cliff notes: https://www.popehat.com/2018/06/28/make-no-law-episode-seven-fire-in-a-crowd... . -A On Sun, Jan 10, 2021 at 2:59 PM Jay Hennigan <jay@west.net> wrote:

On 1/10/21 13:50, Rod Beck wrote:

...

As a big fan of the 1st amendment, but someone deeply appalled by the riot last week and keenly aware of how social media are letting the mud to the surface, I am very perplexed how to reconcile free speech and the garbage flowing through our social streets.

The first amendment deals with the government passing laws restricting freedom of speech. It has nothing to do with to whom AWS chooses to sell their services. It is also not absolute (fire, crowded theater, etc.)

Has anyone seen a rabbit? We've traveled quite a way down the rabbit hole.

-- Jay Hennigan - jay@west.net Network Engineering - CCIE #7880 503 897-8550 - WB6RDV

Declare Facebook a public utility and eliminate advertising by replacing with a fee or what you call a tariff. Breaking up does not always work. Facebook is like a natural monopoly - people want one site to connect with all their 'friends'. No one is going to use several Facebooks as social media platform. They want one. Regards, Roderick. ________________________________ From: John Levine <johnl@iecc.com> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2021 11:57 PM To: nanog@nanog.org <nanog@nanog.org> Cc: Rod Beck <rod.beck@unitedcablecompany.com> Subject: Re: not a utility, was Parler In article <MWHPR13MB1742905824973AB606D9B80BE4AC0@MWHPR13MB1742.namprd13.prod.outlook.com> you write:

-=-=-=-=-=- Unless the courts rule or the legislators enact legislation making them a public utility. In legal circles there is a theory that platforms like Facebook, messaging services, etc. might achieve such importance to public life and discourse as to merit regulation under the grounds they are an essential utility. I am neutral regarding this idea - I have not studied it and also realize that Amazon is not strictly speaking a social media. So my point is tangential.

That is a dream of some factions, but it is not realistic. You can certainly make an argument that Google and Facebook are monopolies, but the remedies for that are to break them up or to require them to provide access to their competitors to some of their internal facilities, e.g., allow other ad networks to bid on and provide the ads that show up with your Google search or Facebook page. Utilities have tariffs under which everyone who orders the same kind of service gets the same service at the same price. I understand how to apply that to a railroad or a power company or a telephone company, but I do not understand how to apply it to a search engine or social media provider or online megastore and neither does anyone else. R's, John

----- On Jan 11, 2021, at 4:46 AM, Karl Auer kauer@biplane.com.au wrote: Hi,

"The DNS is a natural monopoly. People want one resolver so they can connect with all their 'sites'. No one is going to use several nameservers for domain name resolution. They want one."

Nah. The DNS is a natural distributed database, with authoritative data held by those with the most interest in its accuracy. But unlike DNS data, there is money in collecting all the facebooky things - IF you are allowed to sell them. Stop that, and Facebook is a natural distributed database too.

There is also money being made in DNS. A lot of money is being made in DNS. According to Verisign(1) Q3 of 2020 closed with 370.7 million new registrations. At an average of $15 per domain(2), that equals a market of $5.5 billion dollars. Now, that's of course pocket change compared to Facebook's $21.4 billion Q3 revenue(3), but still. And that's without all those alt-root con schemes. Thanks, Sabri (1) https://www.verisign.com/en_US/domain-names/dnib/index.xhtml (2) https://www.websitebuilderexpert.com/building-websites/domain-name-cost/ (3) https://investor.fb.com/investor-events/event-details/2020/Facebook-Q3-2020-...

In article <695823102.10322.1610397074140.JavaMail.zimbra@cluecentral.net>, Sabri Berisha <sabri@cluecentral.net> wrote:

...

"The DNS is a natural monopoly. ...

There is also money being made in DNS. A lot of money is being made in DNS.

According to Verisign(1) Q3 of 2020 closed with 370.7 million new registrations.

That's total registrations across all TLDs, not new registrations. Verisign is by far the largest registry with about 115M in .COM and 15M in .NET. I agree that the total annual revenue of the domain biz, add up everything from Verisign and Godaddy on down, is in the ballpark of $5 billion/year. By comparison, that's about what Google makes every 10 days or what Apple makes every week. Verisign is a highly profitable fish in a tiny pool. -- Regards, John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly

That's my understanding as well, from years of hosting email lists.  As soon as one starts moderating, the rules change, and immunity goes away. It's one of my issues with the whole notion of rules-of-conduct on email lists - particularly when folks get on my case for not "moderating" language that some individual or other finds offensive (like not using requested pronouns).  Some folks get REALLY irate when I refuse to play thought police - and it seems particularly bad when the issue is a minor one.  I've almost gotten to the point of imposing a policy of "the only grounds for moderation or expulsion from this list are repeated complaints about the list host's lack of moderation." Sigh... Miles Fidelman sronan@ronan-online.com wrote:

While Amazon is absolutely within their rights to suspend anyone they want for violation of their TOS, it does create an interesting problem. Amazon is now in the content moderation business, which could potentially open them up to liability if they fail to suspend any other customer who hosts objectionable content.

When I actively hosted USENET servers, I was repeatedly warned by in-house and external counsel, not to moderate which groups I hosted based on content, less I become responsible for moderating all groups, shouldn’t that same principal apply to platforms like AWS and Twitter?

Sent from my iPhone

...

On Jan 10, 2021, at 3:24 AM, William Herrin <bill@herrin.us> wrote:

Anybody looking for a new customer opportunity? It seems Parler is in search of a new service provider. Vendors need only provide all the proprietary AWS APIs that Parler depends upon to function.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2021/01/09/amazon-parler-suspensio...

Regards, Bill HErrin

-- In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. .... Yogi Berra Theory is when you know everything but nothing works. Practice is when everything works but no one knows why. In our lab, theory and practice are combined: nothing works and no one knows why. ... unknown

sronan@ronan-online.com <sronan@ronan-online.com>:

While Amazon is absolutely within their rights to suspend anyone they want for violation of their TOS, it does create an interesting problem. Amazon is now in the content moderation business, which could potentially open them up to liability if they fail to suspend any other customer who hosts objectionable content.

When I actively hosted USENET servers, I was repeatedly warned by in-house and external counsel, not to moderate which groups I hosted based on content, less I become responsible for moderating all groups, shouldn’t that same principal apply to platforms like AWS and Twitter?

Yes, it would. This was an astonnishingly stupid move on AWS's part; I'm prett sure their counsel was not conmsulted. -- <a href="http://www.catb.org/~esr/">Eric S. Raymond</a>

On 1/10/21 4:00 PM, Eric S. Raymond wrote:

sronan@ronan-online.com <sronan@ronan-online.com>:

...

While Amazon is absolutely within their rights to suspend anyone they want for violation of their TOS, it does create an interesting problem. Amazon is now in the content moderation business, which could potentially open them up to liability if they fail to suspend any other customer who hosts objectionable content.

When I actively hosted USENET servers, I was repeatedly warned by in-house and external counsel, not to moderate which groups I hosted based on content, less I become responsible for moderating all groups, shouldn’t that same principal apply to platforms like AWS and Twitter?

Yes, it would. This was an astonnishingly stupid move on AWS's part; I'm prett sure their counsel was not conmsulted.

Surely everyone on this list, purportedly a network operators list, has to have at least heard of 47 USC Section 230... right?

Eric S. Raymond wrote on 11/01/2021 00:00:

Yes, it would. This was an astonnishingly stupid move on AWS's part; I'm prett sure their counsel was not conmsulted.

this is quite an innovative level of speculation. Care to provide sources? Nick

----- Original Message -----

From: "esr" <esr@thyrsus.com>

sronan@ronan-online.com <sronan@ronan-online.com>:

...

When I actively hosted USENET servers, I was repeatedly warned by in-house and external counsel, not to moderate which groups I hosted based on content, less I become responsible for moderating all groups, shouldn’t that same principal apply to platforms like AWS and Twitter?

Yes, it would. This was an astonnishingly stupid move on AWS's part; I'm prett sure their counsel was not conmsulted.

Well, this oughtta be fun. ESR is on the "yes, that is what 230 says" side, and John Levine -- with what looked to me like good arguments and references -- is on the "no, that's entirely not what 230 says side. Gentlemen: go to your corners and come out fighting! Well, ok, disagreeing politely. Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth Baylink jra@baylink.com Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100 Ashworth & Associates http://www.bcp38.info 2000 Land Rover DII St Petersburg FL USA BCP38: Ask For It By Name! +1 727 647 1274

In article <474FE6A6-9AA8-47A7-82C6-860A21B0E99D@ronan-online.com> you write:

...

When I actively hosted USENET servers, I was repeatedly warned by in-house and external counsel, not to moderate which groups I hosted based on content, less I become responsible for moderating all groups, shouldn’t that same principal apply to platforms like AWS and Twitter?

If this was in the US and it was after the CDA was passed in 1996, your lawyers were just wrong.

it is really annoying that you leave not the slightest clue to who the hell you are replying randy

On 1/10/21 10:33 PM, Randy Bush wrote:

...

In article <474FE6A6-9AA8-47A7-82C6-860A21B0E99D@ronan-online.com> you write:

...

When I actively hosted USENET servers, I was repeatedly warned by in-house and external counsel, not to moderate which groups I hosted based on content, less I become responsible for moderating all groups, shouldn’t that same principal apply to platforms like AWS and Twitter? If this was in the US and it was after the CDA was passed in 1996, your lawyers were just wrong. it is really annoying that you leave not the slightest clue to who the hell you are replying

+1 Mike

On January 10, 2021 at 08:42 sronan@ronan-online.com (sronan@ronan-online.com) wrote:

While Amazon is absolutely within their rights to suspend anyone they want for violation of their TOS, it does create an interesting problem. Amazon is now in the content moderation business, which could potentially open them up to liability if they fail to suspend any other customer who hosts objectionable content. To avoid that sort of thing I'd just send PITA's notice that we typically get (N) complaints per customer per (month or whatever.)

We have received $BIGNUM complaints and we are obliged to respond which involves staff time etc. We believe they are eliciting those excess complaints by their behavior so henceforth we will charge them (like $100/complaint response.) FYI for the recent period that would amount to $BIGBUX. They will also be responsible for any resulting legal expenses yaddie-yaddie. We have no obligation to extend them credit for this service so will need a retainer of (around 2x$BIGBUX) and future bills to be paid within (small N) days of posting. Failure to agree (agreement attached) and forward the requisite retainer by (date) will result in the end of our services for them and the closing of their account. P.S. I was actually paid about $1,000 once but usually that ended it, they either apologized and backed off (sometimes it was just aggressive advertisers), or closed their account / let it expire. -- -Barry Shein Software Tool & Die | bzs@TheWorld.com | http://www.TheWorld.com Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: +1 617-STD-WRLD | 800-THE-WRLD The World: Since 1989 | A Public Information Utility | *oo*

Why? This is extremely relevant to network operators and is not political at all.

On Jan 10, 2021, at 8:51 AM, Mike Bolitho <mikebolitho@gmail.com> wrote:

 Can we please not go down this rabbit hole on here? List admins?

- Mike Bolitho

...

On Sun, Jan 10, 2021, 1:26 AM William Herrin <bill@herrin.us> wrote: Anybody looking for a new customer opportunity? It seems Parler is in search of a new service provider. Vendors need only provide all the proprietary AWS APIs that Parler depends upon to function.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2021/01/09/amazon-parler-suspensio...

Regards, Bill HErrin

NANOG is a group of Operators, discussion does not have to be about networking. I have already explained how this represents a significant issue for Network Operators.

On Jan 10, 2021, at 9:09 AM, Mike Bolitho <mikebolitho@gmail.com> wrote:

 It has nothing to do with networking. Their decision was necessarily political. If you can specifically bring up an issue, beyond speculative, on how their new chosen CDN is somehow now causing congestion or routing issues on the public internet, then great. But as of now, that isn't even a thing. It's just best to leave it alone because it will devolve into chaos.

- Mike Bolitho

...

On Sun, Jan 10, 2021, 6:54 AM <sronan@ronan-online.com> wrote: Why? This is extremely relevant to network operators and is not political at all.

...

...

On Jan 10, 2021, at 8:51 AM, Mike Bolitho <mikebolitho@gmail.com> wrote:

 Can we please not go down this rabbit hole on here? List admins?

- Mike Bolitho

...

On Sun, Jan 10, 2021, 1:26 AM William Herrin <bill@herrin.us> wrote: Anybody looking for a new customer opportunity? It seems Parler is in search of a new service provider. Vendors need only provide all the proprietary AWS APIs that Parler depends upon to function.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2021/01/09/amazon-parler-suspensio...

Regards, Bill HErrin

On 1/10/21 16:09, Mike Bolitho wrote:

It has nothing to do with networking. Their decision was necessarily political. If you can specifically bring up an issue, beyond speculative, on how their new chosen CDN is somehow now causing congestion or routing issues on the public internet, then great. But as of now, that isn't even a thing. It's just best to leave it alone because it will devolve into chaos.

I think the days where engineers felt that they didn't need to understand (to some degree) what happened on the penthouse floor are dead & gone. If you haven't yet realized this, eish... Mark.

On Sun, Jan 10, 2021 at 5:43 AM Mike Bolitho <mikebolitho@gmail.com> wrote:

Can we please not go down this rabbit hole on here? List admins?

Hi Mike, While there's certainly an opportunity to get political, there are some obviously apolitical issues worth discussing here as well. First, this would appear to be an illustration of the single-vendor problem. You don't have a credible continuity of operations plan if a termination by a single vendor can take you and keep you offline. It's the single point of failure that otherwise intelligent system architects fail to consider and address. But more than that, cloud providers like Amazon tend to make it inconvenient approaching impossible to build cross-platform services. I kinda wonder what a cloud services product would look like that was actively trying to facilitate cross-platform construction? Second, Amazon strongly encourages customers to build use of its proprietary services and APIs into the core of the customer's product. That's quite devastating when there's a need to change vendors. Parler's CEO described Amazon's action as requiring them to "rebuild from scratch," so I wonder just how tightly tied to such Amazon APIs they actually are. And if there isn't a lesson there for the rest of us. These two issues, at least, are technical in nature and on topic for this forum. You may choose not to discuss them if they don't interest you, of course. Regards, Bill Herrin -- Hire me! https://bill.herrin.us/resume/

You can certainly build platform agnostic applications on top of AWS/Google/etc. but it requires more “work”. Using a platform like OpenShift from Red Hat is one solution. Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 10, 2021, at 12:58 PM, Töma Gavrichenkov <ximaera@gmail.com> wrote:

Peace,

...

On Sun, Jan 10, 2021 at 8:38 PM William Herrin <bill@herrin.us> wrote: providers like Amazon tend to make it inconvenient approaching impossible to build cross-platform services. I kinda wonder what a cloud services product would look like that was actively trying to facilitate cross-platform construction?

HashiCorp Nomad plus Terraform. That's pretty much it.

I'd say it starts to be "inconvenient approaching impossible" only at the point where you begin to use Cloudformation — or when you don't have automated deployment at all. While the provisioning tools are provider agnostic, a move from a provider to a provider would take days at most.

-- Töma

Peace, On Sun, Jan 10, 2021 at 9:18 PM Michael Thomas <mike@mtcc.com> wrote:

At my previous job, I built a tool which could spin up a server farm given a platform agnostic design spec from a list of vendors as well as pricing it out. It was really more of a prototype since it only supported Chef on the spin-up side, but it showed that you could move things pretty quickly if need be.

That's not just the provisioning, you also need an independent cluster management and scheduling (hence Nomad). But yes. -- Töma

On Sun, Jan 10, 2021 at 9:55 AM Töma Gavrichenkov <ximaera@gmail.com> wrote:

I'd say it starts to be "inconvenient approaching impossible" only at the point where you begin to use Cloudformation — or when you don't have automated deployment at all. While the provisioning tools are provider agnostic, a move from a provider to a provider would take days at most.

Hi Töma, Are you sure about that? Consider your database. Suppose you want to run your primary database in AWS with a standby replica in Azure. As long as you install your own database software in both, you can do that. But if you want to leverage AWS' RDS products too, you're mostly out of luck. Regards, Bill Herrin -- Hire me! https://bill.herrin.us/resume/

On 1/10/21 10:21 AM, William Herrin wrote:

On Sun, Jan 10, 2021 at 9:55 AM Töma Gavrichenkov <ximaera@gmail.com> wrote:

...

I'd say it starts to be "inconvenient approaching impossible" only at the point where you begin to use Cloudformation — or when you don't have automated deployment at all. While the provisioning tools are provider agnostic, a move from a provider to a provider would take days at most. Hi Töma,

Are you sure about that? Consider your database. Suppose you want to run your primary database in AWS with a standby replica in Azure. As long as you install your own database software in both, you can do that. But if you want to leverage AWS' RDS products too, you're mostly out of luck.

Is RDS based on something else? I find it hard to believe that they wrote a rdb from scratch. But yes, once they own your db they own you. I've looked before how to migrate from mysql to postgres and was shocked at how little there seems to be out there to even do even the easier stuff let alone the proprietary extensions. Mike

On Sun, Jan 10, 2021 at 8:32 PM <sronan@ronan-online.com> wrote:

...

On Jan 10, 2021, at 1:45 PM, Michael Thomas <mike@mtcc.com> wrote:

...

On 1/10/21 10:21 AM, William Herrin wrote: Are you sure about that? Consider your database. Suppose you want to run your primary database in AWS with a standby replica in Azure. As long as you install your own database software in both, you can do that. But if you want to leverage AWS' RDS products too, you're mostly out of luck.

Is RDS based on something else? I find it hard to believe that they wrote a rdb from scratch. But yes, once they own your db they own you. I've looked before how to migrate from mysql to postgres and was shocked at how little there seems to be out there to even do even the easier stuff let alone the proprietary extensions.

They have Amazon Aurora versions of many popular databases which are binary compatible with the standard versions. So you can run standard Postgres on one cloud and Aurora Postgres in AWS.

Look closer. The AWS RDS version of mysql is unable to replicate with your version of mysql. The configuration which would permit it is not exposed to you. Unless something has changed in the last couple years? Regards, Bill Herrin -- Hire me! https://bill.herrin.us/resume/

On 1/10/21 9:01 PM, William Herrin wrote:

Look closer. The AWS RDS version of mysql is unable to replicate with your version of mysql. The configuration which would permit it is not exposed to you.

Unless something has changed in the last couple years?

Anything that abstracts database services screams LOCK IN. Does anybody know what the supposed value of this lock in is? Mike, wondering whether there exists database repair people like when my toilet explodes

Peace, On Sun, Jan 10, 2021 at 9:09 PM Michael Thomas <mike@mtcc.com> wrote:

Yes, it's been obvious to anybody who's only paying even a little attention that AWS is trying to be build a walled garden.

In my experience, moving off Amazon services isn't that much of a trouble, especially if compared to moving off Azure. Cloud Active Directory + Sentinel + PowerBI — and boom, your company is with Azure for life. -- Töma

On 1/10/21 10:17 AM, Töma Gavrichenkov wrote:

Peace,

...

Yes, it's been obvious to anybody who's only paying even a little attention that AWS is trying to be build a walled garden. In my experience, moving off Amazon services isn't that much of a

On Sun, Jan 10, 2021 at 9:09 PM Michael Thomas <mike@mtcc.com> wrote: trouble, especially if compared to moving off Azure. Cloud Active Directory + Sentinel + PowerBI — and boom, your company is with Azure for life.

To be fair, they all want walled gardens. And there are plenty of junior engineers attracted to shiny new things that people need to keep an eye on. Mike

Some yes, some no. Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 10, 2021, at 12:09 PM, Brielle <bruns@2mbit.com> wrote:

Well then... that’s a rather disturbing revelation.

Out of curiosity, do these big facilities have armed guards of some sort, especially if the facility hosts financial or govt sites?

Sent from my iPad

...

On Jan 10, 2021, at 9:59 AM, Rich Kulawiec <rsk@gsp.org> wrote:

 Given that people on Parler are currently discussing/planning attacks against Amazon/Google/Apple/etc.'s facilities and personnel, this seems wise.

---rsk

On Sun, Jan 10, 2021 at 11:58:14AM -0500, Rich Kulawiec wrote:

Given that people on Parler are currently discussing/planning attacks against Amazon/Google/Apple/etc.'s facilities and personnel, this seems wise.

Got links? -- . ___ ___ . . ___ . \ / |\ |\ \ . _\_ /__ |-\ |-\ \__

I see your point, but I am not sure running the authoritative name servers for a site meets the popular definition of "hosting" them. Epik is currently denying that they are going to host Parler in a traditional sense, though they are the registrar for parler.com. since a couple of days ago. Of course, Amazon could ding Epik for being Parler's registrar, but that would truly be a reach, since they aren't Parler's Web host. -- Hunter Fuller (they) Router Jockey VBH Annex B-5 +1 256 824 5331 Office of Information Technology The University of Alabama in Huntsville Network Engineering On Wed, Jan 13, 2021 at 5:42 PM Matt Corallo <nanog@as397444.net> wrote:

In case anyone thought Amazon was being particularly *careful* around their enforcement of Parler's ban...this is from today on parler's new host:

$ dig parler.com ns ... parler.com. 300 IN NS ns4.epik.com. parler.com. 300 IN NS ns3.epik.com. ... ns3.epik.com. 108450 IN A 52.55.168.70

$ whois 52.55.168.70 ... OrgName: Amazon Technologies Inc.

and for the curious, ns4.epik.com is hosted by an Epik sub, but from a cursory glance appears to be single-homed to CDN77, which is vaguely surprising to me.

Matt

On 1/10/21 3:23 AM, William Herrin wrote:

...

Anybody looking for a new customer opportunity? It seems Parler is in search of a new service provider. Vendors need only provide all the proprietary AWS APIs that Parler depends upon to function.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2021/01/09/amazon-parler-suspensio...

Regards, Bill HErrin

On Wed, 13 Jan 2021 18:41:55 -0500, Matt Corallo said:

In case anyone thought Amazon was being particularly *careful* around their enforcement of Parler's ban...this is from today on parler's new host:

$ dig parler.com ns ... parler.com. 300 IN NS ns4.epik.com. parler.com. 300 IN NS ns3.epik.com. ... ns3.epik.com. 108450 IN A 52.55.168.70

It's quite possible that Amazon is playing this *entirely* by the book, and the Parler crew haven't violated the terms of the nameserver hosting agreement so Amazon hasn't cut that off.

Sure, I just found it marginally comical that amazon, after making a big stink about kicking them off, is still providing them service, even if it’s one-hop indirect. That said, someone else suggested that Epik is denying that they will host the site, only providing registrar services for the domain, so it’s not as comparable as I understood it to be. Matt

On Jan 14, 2021, at 00:10, William Herrin <bill@herrin.us> wrote:

On Wed, Jan 13, 2021 at 9:02 PM Valdis Klētnieks <valdis.kletnieks@vt.edu> wrote:

...

On Wed, 13 Jan 2021 18:41:55 -0500, Matt Corallo said:

...

parler.com. 300 IN NS ns4.epik.com. parler.com. 300 IN NS ns3.epik.com. ... ns3.epik.com. 108450 IN A 52.55.168.70

It's quite possible that Amazon is playing this *entirely* by the book, and the Parler crew haven't violated the terms of the nameserver hosting agreement so Amazon hasn't cut that off.

No, they were hosted on Route53 back on Sunday. Now they're hosted by Epik which implements their own DNS servers using the AWS infrastructure.

Regards, Bill Herrin

-- Hire me! https://bill.herrin.us/resume/

Errr, sorry, typing on my phone. I should have included a “(and, thus, presumably the current DNS hosting returning dummy A records is a temporary thing)”. I presume they transferred the domain and set up some temporary DNS hosting through Epik, likely because, as someone else pointed out, it can avoid longer negative caching while they work on a real hosting deal. Matt

On Jan 14, 2021, at 00:29, William Herrin <bill@herrin.us> wrote:

On Wed, Jan 13, 2021 at 9:22 PM Matt Corallo <nanog@as397444.net> wrote:

...

Sure, I just found it marginally comical that amazon, after making a big stink about kicking them off, is still providing them service, even if it’s one-hop indirect. That said, someone else suggested that Epik is denying that they will host the site, only providing registrar services for the domain, so it’s not as comparable as I understood it to be.

Hi Matt,

I'm not sure I agree with characterizing DNS hosting as a registrar service. It makes sense to sell them together but they're not classically the same thing.

Epik is also entangled with Clouthub which I hear is where Trump landed.

Regards, Bill Herrin

-- Hire me! https://bill.herrin.us/resume/

I think its more probable to say that AWS didn't even know about this. As far as I can see, epik is just another AWS customer who spun up an instance and is hosting dns on that instance.  I doubt AWS is watching customers at a level that would detect this. But, I'm also sure that AWS has since caught wind of this and is watching closely. I just checked, and both listed servers are returning an A record for parler, although its bogus info (probably meant as a place holder with low TTL so no one caches an nxdomain).      

$ dig parler.com ns ...

parler.com.300INNSns4.epik.com. parler.com.300INNSns3.epik.com. ... ns3.epik.com.108450INA52.55.168.70

It's quite possible that Amazon is playing this *entirely* by the book, and the Parler crew haven't violated the terms of the nameserver hosting agreement so Amazon hasn't cut that off.

Is there a remote possibility here that Verisign might say "yeah, we're gonna glue this domain down to 0.0.0.0 and not allow registration"? Is there any precedent for this? Would seem like a game of whack-a-mole that anyone would want to avoid. Really that would seem like the only way to ratchet up the "internet death penalty" even further at this point, barring any major ISPs coming out and saying they'll block it from transiting their networks. Again, more whack-a-mole, and arguably a more serious precedent to set as Verisign isn't the only TLD registrar. -Matt On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 7:24 AM Alain Hebert <ahebert@pubnix.net> wrote:

Hi,

This is just their DNS, parler.com itself returns to 0.0.0.0 now.

----- Alain Hebert ahebert@pubnix.net PubNIX Inc. 50 boul. St-Charles P.O. Box 26770 Beaconsfield, Quebec H9W 6G7 Tel: 514-990-5911 http://www.pubnix.net Fax: 514-990-9443

On 1/14/21 12:02 AM, Valdis Klētnieks wrote:

On Wed, 13 Jan 2021 18:41:55 -0500, Matt Corallo said:

In case anyone thought Amazon was being particularly *careful* around their enforcement of Parler's ban...this is from today on parler's new host:

$ dig parler.com ns ...parler.com. 300 IN NS ns4.epik.com.parler.com. 300 IN NS ns3.epik.com. ...ns3.epik.com. 108450 IN A 52.55.168.70

It's quite possible that Amazon is playing this *entirely* by the book, and the Parler crew haven't violated the terms of the nameserver hosting agreement so Amazon hasn't cut that off.

-- Matt Erculiani ERCUL-ARIN

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 8:47 AM Matt Erculiani <merculiani@gmail.com> wrote:

Is there a remote possibility here that Verisign might say "yeah, we're gonna glue this domain down to 0.0.0.0 and not allow registration"?

Absent a court order? No, not a chance. Verisign is not parler's registrar. They'd be inviting twelve different kinds of liability interfering without government sanction. Regards, Bill Herrin

About this network: On Sun, Jan 17, 2021 at 01:27:10PM -0800, William Herrin wrote: [snip]

inetnum: 190.115.16.0/20 status: allocated aut-num: AS262254 owner: DDOS-GUARD CORP. ownerid: BZ-DALT-LACNIC responsible: Evgeniy Marchenko address: 1/2Miles Northern Highway, --, -- address: -- - Belize - BZ

[snip] I've taken a look at this /20 and recommend either firewalling it (bidrectionally) or null-routing it. It's loaded with scammy domains, many of which are typosquatting on Hulu, Roku, Netgear, ATT, Facebook, Norton, AOL, HP, Canon, SBC, Epson, Bitdefender, Rand-McNally, Roadrunner, McAfee, Magellan, Office365, Tomtom, Garmin, Webroot, Brother, Belkin, Linksys, and probably some others that I overlooked while eyeballing the list. Appended below is a partial list of domains. All of these either (a) are using nameservers in that /20 or (b) have A records that resolve to that /20 or (c) both, as of when I checked this week. Notes: (1) this list is likely only a subset of what's actually there and (2) h/t to Brian Krebs for cataloging some of these in a blog post. ---rsk 0gefogue7.xyz 0xonabui5.xyz 123hpcom.live 123hpcomsetup.me 123hpcomsetup.uk 123hpcomsetup.us 1demo-limonchik-studio.xyz 1hahynya6.xyz 1plus1tv.ru 2092002.ru 2092003.ru 2092004.ru 2092005.ru 2092006.ru 2092007.ru 2092008.ru 2092009.ru 23clouds.cc 2554477.ru 2558822.ru 2fimukoa8.xyz 2likumoo2.xyz 3-demo-cabura-limonchik-studio.xyz 35sib.ru 365cesh.co 3dpen-2.ru 3usd.cc 430.digital 4400.kz 551vevobahis.com 552vevobahis.com 5wyhypie4.xyz 5xiharyu6.xyz 67cratoslot.com 68cratoslot.com 6nolyjye6.xyz 7379515.ru 7963434.ru 7963515.ru 7kurudae.xyz 7zisomae0.xyz 80cratoslot.com 816955.xyz 888-orka149.ru 888invest.fund 8v.to 9dstudios.ru 9gikojeo1.xyz 9pemeleo1.xyz aallfiedor.xyz aarlineutt.xyz abbracher.xyz abvotonfac.buzz acentrustltd.com acroguenat.xyz acroonalles.xyz acs-game.ru acumenfinanceltd.com acystintur.xyz add.az adstolacip.space aenestenn.buzz aeramaxis.team aermeterve.buzz afinehour.biz agatinteelu.space agentpharma.biz agents.su agleriunc.space aidallaste.buzz akwam.click alersolybe.space alextroxic.space aliforex.biz alkiphonfe.xyz allagent.ru almo-difat.site alograbitr.buzz alom-baller.icu altyn-bank.kz altyn24.kz altynonline.kz amenentwor.website ammundenot.space amnallagre.space amotimeteo.site ampbox.us andijanpetro.com angeleye.be angeleye.ru animk.info anlikkredin.com anlinegran.space annitrionev.website antiscan.me anuathotip.website anykassa.com anyremote.org aoldesktopgolddownload.us aoldesktopgolddownloadd.com aoldownload.us aolmailid.com aolmaill.live aolmailnow.com aolmailx.com aouselitic.site apexgang.org apiserver.ru appicu.vip aps-cloud.ru aps-network.ru areinultur.website aripolatat.uno arizona-tennessee.tk arnelourgam.xyz aroxu.info arramoolot.online aryterenco.xyz asillixx.xyz asketerriu.space aslogiacit.agency assuallusn.xyz astero.pw astralchk.xyz astro-rp.ml asylumstresser.to atlaspro-ott.com atls2.com atmaketoys.com att-logins.com att-loginz.com attackservice.com attacksimulation.net aucloyerat.site audioaven.com audioaven.net aukontheco.space auloglesses.space autracosp.site auxemboa.site avastlogin.ch avitoz.me avitoz.nl avitoz.ws avlto-m.ru avlto.app avlto.be avlto.ca avlto.im avrora-cinema.ru avtocity.club azureink.co.uk b1tskins.com b2x-100.ltd bagsworldshop.site bahisnow.info baltiommid.xyz balzambolotova.site bamasciton.buzz bamentries.site bansloi.com baraganclassic.com battlepass-dota.top baymavi0305.com baymavi0314.com baymavi0315.com baymavi0321.com bbitskins.club beaky.us beatskins.bar beatskins.club becticrat.online beecrypto.io belkin-router-login.com belkin-setup.com belkinsetupp.com belpost.su besrchange.net besrchange.ru besrchange.su bestchanrge.com bestchanrge.net bestchrange.com bestechange.ru bestechange.su bestichange.com bestichange.net bestichange.su betbet25.co betcup1.info betebet.in betebet.tv betebet.ws betgel.info betgrams.info betmarino.org betpet.info betpromokod.ru betskins.club betvole1.info bexbet.cc biatiounic.space bigbossago.ru bigddosattack.com biitskins.club biitskins.live biitskins.top bilteskins.club biltskins.club biltskins.cyou biltyskins.me binance-drop.com biockcnaln.com biskinns.club biskinns.live biskinz.club biskinz.life biskinz.shop bit-world.limited bitbskins.com bitc-skins.club bitckins.club bitcobid.com bitcoin-ex.ru bitdefender-centrals.com bitdefender-centralx.com bitdefender-loginn.com bitdefenderlogin.com biteskiins.club biteskins.club biteskins.life bithit.ltd bithskins.club bitkcins.club bitl-skins.club bitleskins.club bitlskins.club bitskiins.club bitskiins.life bitskiins.live bitskiins.top bitskin.top bitskines.club bitskines.life bitskinis.club bitskinns.top bitskins.cyou bitskinse.com bitskinsr.live bitskinsx.us bitskinx.club bitskinz.cyou bitskinz.top bitskkins.club bitsklns.live bitslcins.club bitslkins.club bitslkins.life bitsskinns.club bitsskins.club bitsskins.life bitsskins.live bitsskinss.club bitstkins.club bitsxins.cc bitsxins.life bitsxins.live bitt-skins.club bittskins.bar bittskins.club bittskins.top bittyskins.club bitxskin.club bitxskins.life bitxskins.live bitxskins.top bitxskins.xyz bitxskinz.cyou bitzkins.club bitzkins.life bitzskin.com bitzskins.club black-voip.ru blazingstress.pw blcckclnaln.com bltskinz.club bltsklns.life bmusk-elon.site bmwrc.bz bonus-orka426.ru boosynabr.xyz bosthost.ru boxberryz.ru brightrightinvestments.com brokermaster.ru brother-printer-offline.com brotherprinterdrivers.live brotherprinterdrivers.support brotherprinterdriverss.com brotherprinterofflines.com browsesub.xyz bruellumen.buzz bruhoveckaya.ru bstechglobal.com btc-elon.top btc-eth.info btc-sends.club btc-up.cyou btcgets.club btcsends.club btcup.cyou btcwdaily.com btcxsends.club btcysend.club btmailloginn.com buerulcoly.buzz bullguardlogin.uk buppiscopal.xyz buraveneter.uno burnfirewalls.com burnfirewalls.net burnstresser.com burnstresser.net busanb.net butbet.info buterin-airdrop.fun buterin-send.cyou buterineth.top buteringsend.cyou buterinxeth.top butsent.club butxsent.club buycocainepill.com bvcvv.ru byday.ltd cabal-universe.com cabaltitanspve.ru callspoof.ru calucere.info camps-intuitcom.com campsintuits.com campsintuitt.com canadahq.at canadahq.cn canoncomijsetup.me canoncomijsetup.us canonprinterdrivers.support capital-arise.com cardinalholdingsltd.com cashix.fun casino-azino987.ru casino-rox896.ru casinosekabet.info casinoslotcasino20.com catioloubes.space ccsmoney.club ccsmoney.life ccsmoney.live ccxmoney.top cdek.bz cdekgroup.online cdnz.be cecixey1t.xyz cepmax.co cerberus.black changex-solutions.com chedrucron.buzz chekitut.site chemo-ustro.space cherry-dendy66.ru chuntivers.xyz cifmta.cf ciliceostr.xyz citydelo.ru cleaner-smart.com cleaner-smart.net clychines.space cnitcheam.buzz co15tula.ru cognitive-cloud.com cognitive-machines.com cognitive-machines.ru coin-ex.ru coin-wheel.ru coinale.pro coinevolution.uk coingain.app coinsfera.uk coinspeaker.me coinstat-s.com com-de.ru com-ed.ru com-er.ru com-gf.ru comactivate.uk comextrades.com comsetup.fr conatudles.space cookingmasteri.com core-games.net corolev.ru coronavirus-game.xyz cotiveryog.buzz cover4u.ru coxozuy1p.xyz craidan.store cratoss.net cratosslots.com crazy-person.com crewservices.ru crwitrimar.website crworkeloge.xyz crypto-asset.net crypto-power.biz cryptoarbitrage.expert crystal-profit.com cs-bmoney.top cs-deals.top cs-ggmoney.top cs-maney.bar cs-mmoney.live cs-money.cyou cs-moneyz.club cs-moneyz.cyou cs-moniy.club cs-mony.club cs-nmoney.top cs4money.top csa-money.top csbmoney.club csbmoney.top cscmoney.club cscmoney.cyou cscmoney.live cscmoneyz.cyou csdeals.top csdmoney.me csdmoneys.club csdmoneys.cyou csemoney.life csemoney.live csfmoneys.club csg-gmoney.top csggmoney.top csgives.cyou csgmoney.cyou csgmoneys.cyou csgo-money.live csgomoney.life csgomoney.live csi-moiney.site csimoney.club csimoney.life csimoney.live csimoneys.cyou csj.money csjmoney.top cskmoney.top csltmoney.top csm0ney.shop csmaney.top csmcney.life csmioney.club csmioney.live csmmoney.top csmoiney.club csmoiney.live csmoiney.pw csmoncy.club csmoneey.life csmoneey.live csmoneg.bar csmoneiy.life csmoneiy.live csmoneys.cyou csmoneys.us csmoneyx.club csmoneyy.life csmoneyy.live csmoneyy.top csmoneyz.bar csmoneyz.cyou csmonley.bar csmonney.club csmonoy.club csmonsy.club csmooney.top csnloney.club csnmoney.top csnmoneyz.club csnoney.club csomoney.club cspmoney.club csqmoney.top csraney.club csrmoney.club csrmoney.top csroney.cyou csrrioney.club csrrioney.live cssheets.ru cssmoney.bar cssmoney.club cssmoney.life cssmoney.live cssmoney.top csssmoney.top cstmoney.club cstmoney.life cstmoney.live cstmoney.top cstrades.cyou csttmoney.top csumoney.club csumoney.live csupc.net csvmoney.club csvmoney.com csvmoney.icu csvmoney.life csvmoney.live csvmoney.top csvmoneyz.cyou csx-money.top csx-money.xyz csxgmoney.top csxmoney.club csxmoney.life csxmoney.live csxmoney.top csxmoneyn.club csymoney.top cszahodi.online cszahodi.ru cszmoney.top cszmoneys.club cszxmoney.top cubix.world cucchwagn.site cxmoney.bar cyclencirc.online cyclottina.cyou cystechnics.net cyxio.net cyzibuy3t.xyz czatograse.space czmoney.bar dagawia.xyz dahenthene.buzz dahessiabl.site dameritanu.buzz danu-ctiffup.icu darili-ness.buzz dark-club.cc darkteam.tv dashakcoin.com databooter.to datajs.ru datemenowplus.site datemenowplus.website datemenowplus.xyz ddos-guard.net ddos-guard.network ddos-guard.site ddos-guard.vip ddos-guard1.xyz ddos-guard10.xyz ddos-guard11.xyz ddos-guard12.xyz ddos-guard13.xyz ddos-guard14.xyz ddos-guard15.xyz ddos-guard2.xyz ddos-guard3.xyz ddos-guard4.xyz ddos-guard5.xyz ddos-guard6.xyz ddos-guard7.xyz ddos-guard8.xyz ddos-guard9.xyz ddos-guarding.xyz ddosattacksimulation.com ddosbuy.net ddoscore.tk ddosguardprotectiontest.com ddoshizmeti.com ddosinternational.com ddosinternational.net ddoskaufen.com ddosloadtest.com ddosprotectiontestservice.com ddossatinal.com ddossimulation.com decurax.com dedibelene.buzz dehiblerr.space dejectatir.uno deliveryolx.me demistrans.com denm.pro destarion.com deu-kontlin.xyz devixx.com dexecista.site dezakpw.ru dhusilenes.site difix.pro digitalien.live dinementic.site diresionso.website dirketriag.website ditpmr.ru divna-mebel.com dizillians.website dlboard.co dohupeo1l.xyz dolgigbu.ru donfugher.site dontcraft.ru dorsalvpn.me dota-trade.top dota2gives.cyou dotabuff.top dotafasts.club dotagets.club dotagive.xyz dotagives.cyou dotasend.cyou dotaxtrade.top dous-litivo.xyz downloadfast.host dp-donate.ru dpd.im dpo-dinamika.ru drgob.com dricumante.xyz driftparadise.ru dsc.cool duaingtang.space dubdifarop.buzz duluvitap.buzz dutchanonstore.live dutchanonstore.to dwaronduck.buzz dyanation.space dyandholakow.icu dyseaderp.site easitivisc.buzz ecostroi46.ru edgero.host edienterab.online edurphorta.site eellablader.xyz eellogragos.space egatingsta.xyz egra-doxint.buzz ehorizons.info eidnoloweas.space ekoperm.ru el-marka.ru elbakyan.kz elon-musk-btc.top elonsend.top emoglourt.xyz empiresworld.ru enesticalu.online enficalmit.xyz enserielen.space ephasychap.space epson-printer-offline.com epsonprinterdrivers.support epsonprinterdriverss.com eredlacial.xyz eriessereda.agency erystatism.online escleaner.org esephymipew.buzz esign-docusign.com eth-give.top eth-sends.club eth-up.cyou eth-vital.site eth-vitalya.site ethbuterin.top ethereumpostage.info ethgets.club ethsend.top ethsends.club ethup.cyou ethxsends.club ethysend.club etylogeris.space eu-passport.biz euorpenes.buzz euorstrat.site euxeracksm.xyz evalcheats.org evenilistr.online eventsjagex.com everydaybooks.site evockpire.site evofinex.com ex24.pro exchange-paysafecard.gr exchange-ticket1.net exencellat.space exostivera.buzz expressobuy.com expresszaimy.ru eyetacter.buzz eyroulumetew.buzz ezstaking.com facebooksecurecheck.com faceitt.top faeu-cifyin.buzz fair-exchange.ru fallencdn.xyz family-rp.tk farm-loot.com farooqsyedofficial.com fast-redirect.host fast-win.bet fast-win.biz fast-win.info fast-win.net fast-win.one fast-win.org fastrp.ru fcsmoney.icu fcsmoney.life fcsmoney.live fermasosedi.biz fermasosedi.org feybdionpe.online ffswt.tk figypye.xyz financebiweekly.com findpattern.wtf finoperate.com finoperate.info finoperate.net finoperate.org fiperophic.xyz firlagande.xyz firmdrex.com fladiagnut.xyz flinascob.xyz flionverbos.buzz florida-rp.tk flothero.ru flutablanc.buzz flutter.com.ua fnempire.net fometudereff.xyz fond2020-rus.com foodscooks.com foonidetin.space forum-drekan-rp.online foss-entage.buzz foxyllatem.xyz foxyout.com foxyout.net foxyout.org foxyoutsoftware.com foxyoutsoftware.net foxyoutsoftware.org frage-server.ru fraudstercrew.org free-cloud.site freedomofdata.tk freekino.ru freelinode.ml fresh-mining.com frumashore.xyz ftk-news.site fuckgirl.pw fullshara.net fundtrade.biz furseentrus.space furybitcoin.com fusts.host futureprice.ru fxfan.app fylictruel.online fyroscres.site gablifidill.space gadalka-forum.ru gagi.ru galaxytaps.ru game-code.site gamegg.ru gamer.casa games-jagex.com gamesinfoportal.com gamesjagex.com gamophiser.buzz ganged.club garantpopovich.ru garmin-basecamp.com garmin-com-express.support garmin-comexpress.me garmin-comexpresss.com garmin-express.ch garmin-express.me garmin-express.support garmin-expresss.com garmin-loginz.com garminbasecamp.org garmincomexpress.com.au garmincomexpress.download garmincomexpress.express garmincomexpress.fr garmincomexpress.global garmincomexpress.live garmincomexpress.pro garmincomexpress.support garmincomexpress.uk garmincomexpresss.com garmincomexpressx.com garmincomexpressz.com garminconnect.org garminexpress.ch garminexpress.express garminexpress.global garminexpress.pro garminexpress.support garminexpress.uk garminexpress.us garminexpresss.com garminlogins.com garminz.com garona-wow.com gaustoilhes.buzz gazitermall.xyz gcpanel.ru gematiolyt.xyz generalcoins.pro generousmonitor.com geniuschange.com gesugao.wtf getgarminexpress.com getoetteluw.xyz gexepoe3t.xyz gid-dlivele.buzz gigantstore.net gighterop.site gipurystat.xyz giris1.info girisci.info giss-enteou.host gkrascvetai.com gleangrates.space globalokexfund.com globaltechassistance.us globalwebassistance.us glulootin.site gly-cenetic.website gnocherer.space gnosteisep.xyz goaolmails.com gocsmoney.club godinellog.site gogarmincomexpress.com gonortoncom-setup.com gonortoncomsetup.com goodmine.site goofficecom-setup.com goofficecomsetup.com goproisanc.tech gorozay9h.xyz gouroonim.space goyallayin.space goyancheta.buzz gozmining-doge.com greatkino.online grictuminak.xyz growyourfunds.vip grulamenis.buzz guard-neronya.com guard-ys.com guard-ys.net guard-ys.org gumagontrow.buzz guncelbahis.net guncelgirisi.com gurugramnewsnetwork.com gutsophria.uno guwinoa3t.xyz habbomarket.fr hableculat.online hagraspoofer.to han-nessiv.cyou happy2021.pro happyandroid.ru happybirthdaytoyou.ru hartheek.site hdreactor.in hdreactor.su heganator.buzz hellosummer.site hentai-chamber.gq hercag-macu.xyz herqy.info hilograpas.space hinginopane.xyz hipisistim.xyz hippeavene.xyz hkleaks.ml hkleaks.pk hobileptac.space hogonasarab.space hookah-cat.com hotiensoph.xyz hp-printer-offline.com hp123hp.com hpam.ru hpprinterdrivers.me hpprinterdrivers.services hpprinterdrivers.support hpprinterofflinee.com https76.ru hucliescie.buzz hucoxea3j.xyz hulu-com-activate.us hulu-login.com hulu-login.us hunebui.xyz hunoigisit.space hustbee.design hyakuro.com hydra24market.online hydrovatea.online hylogretoe.xyz hyogiarigan.buzz hyperboost.me hysoaserip.buzz i-obmen.ru i7i.monster ib-api.online ibigchat.com ibitdefendercentral.com ibitdefendercentrals.com ibitdefendercentralz.com ibitdefenderlogin.com ibitdefenderloginn.com ibitdefenderlogins.com ibyte.cloud ice-cinema.ru icevpn.co icsmoney.club icsmoney.life icsmoney.live idex-market.net igarmincomexpress.com ignouspir.buzz ijstartcannons.com ijstartcanonn.com ilbet.info ilbet.org ilon-btc.top imateacita.xyz imballednes.buzz imcafeecomactivatee.com imcafeecomactivates.com imcafeecomactivatez.com imiciter-se.site imywifi-ext.com inavmanupdate.com inavmanupdatex.com indiru.pro infinityware.space inforpay.online ingame.su inortoncomsetup.com inqueniteret.space instado.info install-store.com interludestress.ml interludestress.xyz internationalddos.com internetufa.ru invest-scanner.com investmentofkuwait.com investrofund.com invipackle.xyz ioan-tobolsk.ru iosappdevelopment.app ipboxplayer.com ipharm.com.ua irokucomlink.com isabiliabal.xyz iskyedit.com iskylib.com iskylib.net ismm.store iterolutme.buzz iwebrootcomsafee.com iwebrootcomsafes.com iwebrootcomsafez.com izatarratos.buzz izzleelit.space jaemes.org jagex-rs.com jagexpromo.com jcsmoney.club jeforolowe.site jervis.ru jesuscraft.ru jetisfy.com jiminesion.buzz jipyressew.xyz jivicash.com jjstore.ru jodiapter.site johet-rilog.space joker-playx-693.ru joristabla.space junat-rimpu.buzz junavuo3d.xyz jygageo5z.xyz kadeqiy.xyz kaltritiv.buzz kapitalof.com katur-nilit.buzz kaudalomin.buzz kazino-vavada256.ru kazzino-azino25.ru kbereg.info kc-boost.ru kcsmoney.club kece-nivism.xyz kidemaskin.website kijitei.xyz kingbetting100.com kino-teka.com kinogoclub.net kinoline-hd.net kinotavr.kz kinranonline.com kirvesozluk.com kissellate.space kitracent.buzz kktc.ru klas.cc klasbet.info klorproule.xyz kmeyong-online.com kneshleapah.host knighthotel.fr koidomenst.buzz koincotr.site kolograter.xyz komomineum.uno kositilier.host kothminass.buzz kulminesc.icu kverosivot.icu l-17.ru l2bold.fun l2pts.site l2ultra.ru la2-farm.ru lablimisce.site lama-ad.com lanesermic.buzz langmarket.com lastchaos-nova.ru latinilect.xyz laven-reena.buzz layer4attack.com layer7ddos.com legab.info legionsecurityservices.io leousnesco.xyz leprastric.xyz lewat.ga liderconsalt.ru liderosago.ru likishiare.website limandrola.site limemoney.xyz limonchik-dev.site linkresmi.com linksysextendersetupp.com linksysextendersetups.com linksysrouterloginn.com linksysrouterlogins.com lisputioror.xyz litechecker.space liveissport.online localbits.ru loetainkn.buzz loftfilms.com.ua loheniy9n.xyz lootfarms.top lootfarn.top lootgfarm.top loryholding.com lotwin-serv.com loweelogic.online lowskill.ru loxocuu2b.xyz ltd7.io ltdlion.com lucky4u.ru luxinfine.ml luxioprofit.com lycheigehat.site lyjuqeu.xyz lylegeo.xyz lynotypta.site lyto-rbonis.space lzpress.ru maaau.ru magellan-gps-update.com magellan-gps-updates.com magellan-roadmate-update.com magellan-update.com magellangpsupdatee.com magellanroadmateupdatee.com magellanroadmateupdatez.com magicplot.com magnacivitas.vip makehysmin.buzz makypia.xyz mamopiu3d.xyz manamoa2.net manamoa3.net manamoa4.net mans-azartplay576.ru mans-dendy642.ru mapata.info margenes.site mashtemple.cf massive.gg mawexie4n.xyz mcafeeactivatee.uk mcafeeactivates.uk mcafeecom-activate.xyz mcafeecom-activatee.com mcafeecom-activatez.com mcafeecomactivate.fr mcafeecomactivatec.com mcafeecomactivatee.uk mcafeecomactivates.uk mcafeecomactivatez.com mcafeelogins.com mcafeeloginz.com media-life.top mehmetharbali.com mendilay.info messerfund.xyz metin2garin.com metin2lion.es midellycha.site midnight-ran.com miflatinte.online migatui2n.xyz million-hosting.ru mimeg-rapis.online minedtrade.com minetrust.ru mining-ltd.com mirant.fun mitigationinternational.com mitigationinternational.net mobi-crypto.com mobilbahisgirisi.online modsmc.ru monardmat.buzz monster-style.ru montecristo-rest.ru mopi-derode.space mordormail.ru moscow-azartplay169.ru moscow-vavada907.ru mossitionom.cyou motion-fit.studio moworld.ru mozeresiba.uno msassistance.ca msglobal.uk mstechassistance.com msupcenter.pw mswebassistance.com mtmcode.ru mtuvtcrfavt.ru muetassip.buzz musk-send.cyou musk-xsend.fun muskgsend.cyou musksent.club muskxsent.club mx1-ddos-guard.net my-download.host myaolmaill.com myaolmailx.com myaolmailz.com myautocleaner.org mybtmailx.com mybtmailz.com mycionnest.buzz mydrive-connect.uk mydriveconnect.ch mydriveconnects.uk myetlnrwallet.com mygiftingsmall.com mymypay.ru mynortoncomnu16.com mynortonnu16.com mypopularathletes.online myprepaidcenter.mom myrokucomlinkk.com myrokucomlinkz.com myrokulink.live mytechnics.info mythicalgloryep7ran.com mythoulcen.buzz mytomtomhome.uk mywifi-extt.com mywifi-extz.com mywifiboost.com mywifiboost.net mywifibooster.net mywifiboostext.net mywifiboosting.net mywifiextenders.net mywifiextz.com myxosceoun.buzz n12.ddos-guard.net nanceplog.online nanda.ru nanda.to naruto-legend.ru naveneter.top navmanupdatez.com nawezeo2h.xyz ncsmoney.club nds-pravo.online nebraskinl.site nech.to nejun.org nellerand.buzz nematuppel.space nepheomous.xyz nerdebonus.com neronya-guard.com neronya-guard.org netgearextendersetupp.com netgearrouterloginn.com netgearrouterlogins.com netgearrouterloginz.com netkill.live neutronium.gq new-auto.ru new-avto.ru newhost.kz news-criminal.online newspace24.com newspeople.site newssinema.com nig-neousep.space nightmarestresser.com nioly-peruc.space niteteam.io nivulnecto.space noblarat.site nody.host noelendlin.xyz noeneramen.xyz nomoremrp.com nonamegame.pw noproxylol1.life norton-com-nu16.com norton-com-setup.uk norton-comnu16.com norton-logins.com nortoncom-setupz.com nortoncomnu16.com nortoncomsetupl.com nortoncomsetupo.com nortoncomsetupp.uk nortoncomsetupx.com nortoncomsetupz.com nortonlogins.com nortonloginz.com nortonncomsetup.com novastream.live nowfitanit.buzz nubtuaild.site null-007.com numiceuroo.buzz nunelite.net nusecurity.nl nyrapay5n.xyz nywyhua.xyz oberemanius.host obmenochka.com obscingenc.site obtratogis.buzz ochansuina.site oclectoco.online ocsmoney.club octopusfc.su office-365-download.com office365download.org office365download.us officecom-setupp.com officecom-setupz.com officecomsetup.ch officecomsetup.co.uk officecomsetupl.com officecomsetupp.com officecomsetupp.uk officecomsetups.uk officeecomsetup.com officesetupp.uk officesetups.uk oghtessona.buzz oldschoolrsforum.com oleybet.link ominkyllul.buzz onionplay.net onionplay.to online-winner-24.bar ooosago.ru ooplenulio.site opatimernes.buzz openshoteditor.com openshoteditor.net optcovid.ru optxiaomi.com oquingeamo.xyz orasteniyah.ru orlenserm.xyz ornesewasu.space osagoest.ru osagokeeper.ru oselseomen.space oshacker.online osimodeltestservice.com osnovanie-osman.ru otpechatano.ru ouzenessab.buzz ovanemandas.buzz overlia.net padroviceo.site palacius.fr paphandit.buzz papujaa5s.xyz pasittered.site pathon.info pay-robokassa.com paykwiksitesi.com paymir.info paypal-c5.com pegas21.ru pendispida.website peneseivab.cyou perevodclub.ru perfectusgiftus.com perstream.ru pewaxical.buzz pgiglobal.biz phieutster.online phoenix-hack.ru photki.ru photo-editor.life php12.ru pic-trade.company picipitchr.xyz picshub.design pixechamen.site pixprotect.org plaktuel.shop platinum-pinup637.ru play-vavada980.ru playfortuna-549-cazino.ru playwin-rox202.ru poid-eloron.space polisos.ru pongwantab.xyz ponyexpress.im porankebor.buzz pornorus.ml portbet.link portbet.org portugalia.host poslegol.com povyzei.xyz power-stresser.ml powercrypto.biz powergen.tk powerhns.ru pratiacid.xyz premierspa63.ru prestige-kurs.ru prestigeran.com prodam-aviamili.ru profakademia.ru program-ka.ru prokatavto32.ru prokinoman.online promarket.pw promos-rs.com promosjagex.com prostresser.bz protectiontestservice.com protopolis.ru prtvmedia.tv pubsidigg.site putpuncter.space pw-siesta.ru pwsrv.ru qaginaa8h.xyz qahajia9p.xyz qalawee.xyz qbit.directory qeqigoy9g.xyz qipagay.xyz qisejua.xyz qivinistan.xyz r6wm.shop raciderbas.buzz ractomatcall.buzz rajoutanch.buzz ralveralew.cyou ran-waredition.com rand-mcnally-dock.com rand-mcnally-gps-update.com rand-mcnally-update.com randmcnally-dock.com randmcnally-update.com randmcnallydock.us randmcnallydockupdate.com randmcnallydockz.com randmcnallygpsupdate.com ranmmr.com rascvetai.ru rastoresio.xyz rebo-lisbaz.website redinvite.net reflateor.site reifulnopah.space rejurectros.space rekiancoun.xyz renogy.info reorthaeot.space resumeshkin.com retics.ru rgvk.ru rhuracismo.buzz ribblitica.site rierablex.online rigraninat.buzz rimandethe.site ring-lemona.buzz ripple-give.top roadrunneremail.live roadrunneremail.us roadrunneremaills.com roadrunneremailus.com roadrunneremailusa.com robotop.io rocertnesu.buzz rogativitc.space rovupua.xyz rowanenergy.com rox-joyz-cazino.ru rs-bonuses.com rsgoldmines.com rsgoldsrush.com rstesting121.xyz runescape-promotions.com runilidor.xyz runzone-rp.xyz ruraveritr.online rwb-gr.com ryzen-heberg.fr rz-monitor.ru sagent.ru sagentereb.space sahermart.buzz sakin-gorabos.online samawome.xyz samhoque.dev sankt-tehnik.ru sayto.cf sayto.ml sbcglobal-login.com sbcglobal-login.us sbcgloballoginn.com sbcgloballogins.com sbcgloballoginz.com scampiastresser.pw school26kurgan.ru school28-pkgo.site scinbaron.bar scotiaweb.life sekabet-giris.info sekabets.info sekaci.info sekadres.info semiessier.space sendeth.top sendingudp.com senessetros.xyz seniorgeneralminaunghlaing.com.mm seocopywriter.ru seocopywriting.ru sepgob.site service-pro.site shal-netost.buzz sharavod.com sharkstresser.net sharktrade.net shikme.ru shopscript.shop shredhack.ru shutterbot.xyz sicianater.website sicilyhotelwebgame.tk sigedyi0w.xyz sihigo.info sikinbaron.bar sircophiol.space sittermaga.website skikbaron.bar skilnbaronz.club skilnzbarons.club skimbaron.bar skin-baran.bar skin-baron.bar skin-baron.top skin-barons.bar skin-barons.cyou skin-boron.bar skinbanon.bar skinbaran.shop skinbarom.bar skinbarons.bar skinbarons.cyou skinbaronz.bar skinbaror.bar skinboran.bar skinboron.bar skinboron.shop skincbarons.club skinchanger.cc skindbarons.cyou skingbaron.cyou skinhbaron.club skinjbaron.cyou skinjbarons.cyou skinlsbarons.club skinmarons.club skins-baron.bar skins-baron.top skinsbaron.club skinsbarons.top skinswalet.com skintbarons.club skinzbaron.bar skinzbaronz.cyou skirbaron.bar skirnbaron.cyou skitvpn.com skitvpn.net skitvpn.org sklnbaron.bar sklnbaron.club sklnbaron.life sklnbaron.live sklnbaron.shop sklnsbarons.club slaym.in slidiummit.buzz slinemining.com smile-cleaner.com smile-cleaner.net smile-cleaner.org smile-mebel.ru smile-optimizer.com smile-optimizer.net smmdrugs.ru smok-e.ru smoke-bot.com smokgam.es smokgames.fun smokgames.info smokgames.one smokgames.space smokgames.top smrockworer.site smyl.cf sonwolont.xyz spam2020.com spap-hyste.site speedcloud.ml splashup-light.com spotifyprem.pro sps-media.ru ssdcloud.io ssmokgames.com sspin.io stackedvpn.com stocknub.com stomexpert.net storechief.com str3sser.io stressit.club strike-cs.ru strongddospower.com subcolymak.site superra-casino-yan.ru superra-casino.ru sutopinesc.buzz suttivatib.uno svoetaksi.ru swapgg-trade.top swapgg.club swapgg.xyz swellskam.ru swindoonda.space sworinexen.icu sycatlense.cyou synergytrade.cc syrounchro.site t-of-w.com tagitioneg.buzz takehyip.host tatoxtroba.online tavetrobut.space taxpartnerindia.com tcsmoney.club tds.cx teasmond.net techies247.net.au tecnon.ltd teslabtc.top teslaxbtc.top textflow.ru tf-museum.ru thereaper.pw thesocialhub.us thonor.net thunderstresser.me ticksvpn.com ticksvpn.net ticksvpnsoftware.com tipusthorn.xyz tiritu.info tixeky.info todaynewssport.com todex.io todostiorob.buzz tokienous.xyz tokyo2021.rocks tomtom-home.uk tomtom-update.uk tomtomhome.ch tomtomhomes.uk tomtomupdate.uk tomtomupdates.uk tonaw.info topouninat.buzz topserials.tv torrentwiz.me toscebasse.xyz tostromaid.xyz totobotime.com toxyzen.ru toxyzen.su tpkassa.com tplinkextendersetupp.com tplinkextendersetups.com tplinkloginn.com tplinklogins.com trabis.xyz tracr.co trade-git.top trade-it.pw trade-its.xyz trade-itt.top trade-win.ru tradecs.top tradefit.top tradegit.top tradegits.cyou tradehit.top tradeiit.top tradeir.top tradeit.bar tradeitgg.club tradeitgg.live tradeitgg.us tradeits.club tradeits.cyou tradeitt.club tradeitts.top tradeitz.club tradeltgg.us traderit.top tradesassets.com tradifytrading.com tropic-birds.com trotuarka74.ru trustfree.market tulaivenul.xyz tuongtaccheo.vn turkeyhit.net turkiru.ml tutelecom.xyz tutosago.ru tymaritudud.online uapay.im ubercustomerservice.us ubercustomerservices.com ubitskins.club ucsmoney.club ulnk.pw undeeboad.online underdj5ziov3ic7.live une-sitched.space ungon-funal.xyz unmo-ridact.buzz unnes-smarat.site unolowleca.online untlitentn.xyz upcweb.ru uprogrande.xyz upweadisaph.xyz urasogeriss.xyz usqualipwow.space uveriastros.site uvulassido.xyz v80.team vanillacentralnexus.com vanillagobalance.com vanozuy1c.xyz vasilisk.xyz vaterequin.buzz vatoloraphe.space vautmennat.buzz vazezai5t.xyz vcaretherapy.net vcsmoney.club vdbet.info vegasspinonline.site veindorduc.xyz venmade.ru verheislad.buzz vesenreter.buzz vevobahis0552.com vevobahis0556.com video-camera.ru vigardimic.xyz villageoflight.top virusworld.ru visionwallet.com vital-eth.site vitalik-airdrop.fun vitalya-eth.site vitya-eth.top vizjer.pl vk-cache.co vk-cache.ru vmig.expert vnds-2020.com votehabbo.fr vupewua8r.xyz waf-tarallu.xyz waffiestis.xyz wallbtc.com wallbtc.net wallbtc.sg warandwork.net warface-bonus.ru warplay.cloud was-conatta.buzz wastrition.xyz watorsuper.buzz wealloqua.space webdesignplus.ru webroot-download.com webrootcomsafe.com webrootcomsafeee.com webrootcomsafer.com webrootcomsafex.com webrootdownload.me webrootlogin.us webrootloginn.com webrootloginz.com weevelliat.xyz welixon.limited welovepwe.ru weltuadr.site weollee.com wevaryo.xyz whonalleum.uno whyspice.top wiby.info wietforum.be wiforginom.space wifulentles.buzz wikinok-ness.buzz wikreate-cinema.com wilgentinu.cyou wima-nicat.website winplay-pinup733.ru winplay-vavada565.ru winrar.life wishleszone.com woadirast.site woomeldlit.icu wopyxay6p.xyz worldcubes.ru worldparalympics.com wortexmine.online wp-login.org wrylespith.site wuhuxii3j.xyz wwpay.ru wwwhulucomactivate.us wwwmcafeecomactivate.uk wwwnortoncomsetup.com.au x1200.ru x123hp.com x52-russia.online xak-log.com xc.money xcsmoney.club xcsmoney.life xebarpapt.website xebelectis.buzz xebubiu8h.xyz xeii.dev xgame-vavada763.ru xgame-vavada886.ru xilacraninternational.com xlegitrm.xyz xloud.ru xn--80aesyt.shop xn--bcokchan-6ob9076e.com xn--bcokchan-81a76f.com xn--bcokchan-hkb7p.com xn--bcokchn-njb85vk48i.com xn--bestcange-4mb.com xn--bestchage-hxb.com xn--bestchrage-q1b.com xn--blckchan-370d8a.com xn--blckchan-5fd9334e.com xn--blcokchan-ipb.com xn--blcokchan-xob.com xn--blocchan-g49cv1d.com xn--blockchan-xob.com xn--blockchin-c2d.com xn--blockchn-1od4993e.com xn--blokchan-39a8527e.com xn--bocchan-njb7977d7hb.com xn--bockchain-qub.com xn--bockchn-zeb7pl8h.com xn--d1ahfkddecb.com xn--exm-vlz.com xn--llockchain-ehe.com xn--loalbitcoins-yqb.com xn--loalbitcoins-yqb.net xn--locabitcoin-j4b.com xn--localbitoins-4qb.com xn--lockchain-pub821a.com xn--lockchain-zy5d.com xn--lockchan-81a66fe0g.com xn--lockchan-hkb6py9i.com xn--mytlherwallet-qzb.com xn--ockchan-mjb8937dwub.com xn--poonex-4db8851d.com xn--qiw-jwa.com xn--vs-zi72aga.ga xscmoney.club xskins.cash xsmoney.bar yantidintas.space yaphaniuma.xyz yapharmina.buzz year-rostre.space yelliterous.xyz yeosallopah.host yesbahis.info yobidoyobi.ru yogadiary.ru yokerionud.xyz yonistien.site yorik.cc youla.click youla.cz youla.moe youlq.pl youtbprize.online ys-guard.net ystarium.fund yummy-rp.tk yuninetwork.ml ywinteolo.site zakazat-nanyat-naiti.com zapeurate.site zavorohin.ru zcsmoney.club zebulyu2x.xyz zellan.ru zer-gendenl.online zetbull.com zeushub.pw zhitvkusno.online zidofoa5x.xyz zinoliesc.site zitiolypop.buzz zizekoo.xyz zocajy.xyz zonoundoste.cyou zonperenpo.xyz zstress.ru zuciat-chono.buzz zunhack.online zyrobui.xyz

Googling "Rob Monster Epik" will tell you just about everything you need to know about that organization. On Wed, Jan 13, 2021 at 3:42 PM Matt Corallo <nanog@as397444.net> wrote:

In case anyone thought Amazon was being particularly *careful* around their enforcement of Parler's ban...this is from today on parler's new host:

$ dig parler.com ns ... parler.com. 300 IN NS ns4.epik.com. parler.com. 300 IN NS ns3.epik.com. ... ns3.epik.com. 108450 IN A 52.55.168.70

$ whois 52.55.168.70 ... OrgName: Amazon Technologies Inc.

and for the curious, ns4.epik.com is hosted by an Epik sub, but from a cursory glance appears to be single-homed to CDN77, which is vaguely surprising to me.

Matt

On 1/10/21 3:23 AM, William Herrin wrote:

...

Anybody looking for a new customer opportunity? It seems Parler is in search of a new service provider. Vendors need only provide all the proprietary AWS APIs that Parler depends upon to function.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2021/01/09/amazon-parler-suspensio...

...

Regards, Bill HErrin