Re: [outages] News item: Blackberry services down worldwide
Our blackberry service with Us Cellular in Missouri started having issues about 8am this morning.
Haven't received an e-mail on my Blackberry since around 4AM, located in Atlanta. On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 11:04 AM, Ben Albee <balbee@orscheln.com> wrote:
Our blackberry service with Us Cellular in Missouri started having issues about 8am this morning.
-----Original Message----- From: D. Marshall Lemcoe Jr. [mailto:forum@lemcoe.com] Sent: 12 October 2011 18:01 Cc: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: [outages] News item: Blackberry services down worldwide
Haven't received an e-mail on my Blackberry since around 4AM, located in Atlanta.
Email on my iPhone is working fine.. ;-) -- Leigh ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________
Found this posting:
Blackberry down. Research in Motion (RIM) sent the following e-mail to all clients: To: All Blackberry Clients
Please be advised that Research in Motion (RIM) is experiencing world-wide connectivity issues affecting email flow to and from all Blackberries. RIM has not provided an expected time to resolution as of yet. Once we receive notice that the issue is resolved, we will forward that information to you.
Thank you, Corporate Information Systems/Mobile Services
On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 10:05, Leigh Porter <leigh.porter@ukbroadband.com>wrote:
-----Original Message----- From: D. Marshall Lemcoe Jr. [mailto:forum@lemcoe.com] Sent: 12 October 2011 18:01 Cc: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: [outages] News item: Blackberry services down worldwide
Haven't received an e-mail on my Blackberry since around 4AM, located in Atlanta.
Email on my iPhone is working fine.. ;-)
-- Leigh
______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________
-- steve pirk yensid "father... the sleeper has awakened..." paul atreides - dune kexp.org member august '09 - Google+ pirk.com
On 2011-10-12, at 13:05, Leigh Porter wrote:
Email on my iPhone is working fine.. ;-)
The blackberry message service is centralised with a lot of processing intelligence in the core. Messaging services that use the core as a simple transport and shift the processing intelligence to the edge have different, less-dramatic failure modes. No news, here. http://isen.com/stupid.html Joe
I've always believed that RIM's decision to implement email and other services in this way was a very poor choice that at some point would blow up in their faces. My evil half would say that is was a marketer's rather than an engineer's decision. It's one thing when you are basically the only game in town (as RIM was a few years ago), now it's a completely different scenario. RIM already faces a complicated playground. More high-profile incidents like this one and suddenly people start losing confidence in the service... one thing leads to another... then suddenly you're target for acquisition by a huge corporation. Then things look up again but exactly one year later that huge corporation buries everything you did and you're a page in a history book :-) Good luck to them, Carlos On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 3:50 PM, Joe Abley <jabley@hopcount.ca> wrote:
On 2011-10-12, at 13:05, Leigh Porter wrote:
Email on my iPhone is working fine.. ;-)
The blackberry message service is centralised with a lot of processing intelligence in the core. Messaging services that use the core as a simple transport and shift the processing intelligence to the edge have different, less-dramatic failure modes.
No news, here. http://isen.com/stupid.html
Joe
-- -- ========================= Carlos M. Martinez-Cagnazzo http://www.labs.lacnic.net =========================
Joe Abley (jabley) writes:
On 2011-10-12, at 13:05, Leigh Porter wrote:
Email on my iPhone is working fine.. ;-)
The blackberry message service is centralised with a lot of processing intelligence in the core. Messaging services that use the core as a simple transport and shift the processing intelligence to the edge have different, less-dramatic failure modes.
This is not the case for corporate customers with dedicated servers, AFAIU. P.
On 2011-10-12, at 18:02, Phil Regnauld wrote:
Joe Abley (jabley) writes:
On 2011-10-12, at 13:05, Leigh Porter wrote:
Email on my iPhone is working fine.. ;-)
The blackberry message service is centralised with a lot of processing intelligence in the core. Messaging services that use the core as a simple transport and shift the processing intelligence to the edge have different, less-dramatic failure modes.
This is not the case for corporate customers with dedicated servers, AFAIU.
I'm no expert, but my understanding is that at some/most/all traffic between handhelds and a BES, carried from the handheld device through a cellular network, still flows through RIM. Joe
Joe Abley (jabley) writes:
This is not the case for corporate customers with dedicated servers, AFAIU.
I'm no expert, but my understanding is that at some/most/all traffic between handhelds and a BES, carried from the handheld device through a cellular network, still flows through RIM.
Correct - they need to transit at some point through the RIM servers. http://www.interworks.com/blogs/wlyles/2010/01/14/why-rim-outage-affects-use... That's just wrong on so many levels. Cheers, Phil
On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 6:40 PM, Phil Regnauld <regnauld@nsrc.org> wrote:
Correct - they need to transit at some point through the RIM servers.
http://www.interworks.com/blogs/wlyles/2010/01/14/why-rim-outage-affects-use...
That's just wrong on so many levels.
yet... people AND CORPORATIONS still use them... Hrm, one wonders how plain-text-like the traffic is between endpoints? how much data is there that could be used to identify the endpoints? "Look, jabley's sure sending lots of traffic to capitan knight... maybe there's something going on in jabley-land?" just sayin'!
-----Original Message----- From: Joe Abley [mailto:jabley@hopcount.ca] Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 6:06 PM To: Phil Regnauld Cc: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: [outages] News item: Blackberry services down worldwide
On 2011-10-12, at 18:02, Phil Regnauld wrote:
Joe Abley (jabley) writes:
On 2011-10-12, at 13:05, Leigh Porter wrote:
Email on my iPhone is working fine.. ;-)
The blackberry message service is centralised with a lot of
processing intelligence in the core. Messaging services that use the core as a simple transport and shift the processing intelligence to
You are correct. The BES uses PSKs to talk to RIM's servers, which then uses them to talk to the devices over the carrier networks. All of this was in complete failure mode until sometime overnight when it appears to have all started flowing again. Someday either Google or Apple will get off their rear ends and roll out an end to end encrypted service that plugs into corporate email/calendar/workgroup services and we can all gladly toss these horrid little devices in the recycle bins where they belong. Jamie the
edge have different, less-dramatic failure modes.
This is not the case for corporate customers with dedicated
servers,
AFAIU.
I'm no expert, but my understanding is that at some/most/all traffic between handhelds and a BES, carried from the handheld device through a cellular network, still flows through RIM.
Joe
It's called Microsoft Exchange ActiveSync :) It works with Android, Apple and Microsoft devices. I believe both Lotus and Groupwise have licensed and support it as well. We have a few (but now, very few) blackberry users remaining. They won't let it go until we rip it out of their hands.
-----Original Message----- From: Jamie Bowden [mailto:jamie@photon.com] Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2011 7:36 AM To: Joe Abley Cc: nanog@nanog.org Subject: RE: [outages] News item: Blackberry services down worldwide
You are correct. The BES uses PSKs to talk to RIM's servers, which then uses them to talk to the devices over the carrier networks. All of this was in complete failure mode until sometime overnight when it appears to have all started flowing again. Someday either Google or Apple will get off their rear ends and roll out an end to end encrypted service that plugs into corporate email/calendar/workgroup services and we can all gladly toss these horrid little devices in the recycle bins where they belong.
Jamie
-----Original Message----- From: Joe Abley [mailto:jabley@hopcount.ca] Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 6:06 PM To: Phil Regnauld Cc: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: [outages] News item: Blackberry services down worldwide
On 2011-10-12, at 18:02, Phil Regnauld wrote:
Joe Abley (jabley) writes:
On 2011-10-12, at 13:05, Leigh Porter wrote:
Email on my iPhone is working fine.. ;-)
The blackberry message service is centralised with a lot of
processing intelligence in the core. Messaging services that use the core as a simple transport and shift the processing intelligence to the edge have different, less-dramatic failure modes.
This is not the case for corporate customers with dedicated servers, AFAIU.
I'm no expert, but my understanding is that at some/most/all traffic between handhelds and a BES, carried from the handheld device through a cellular network, still flows through RIM.
Joe
-----Original Message----- From: Jamie Bowden [mailto:jamie@photon.com] Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2011 7:36 AM To: Joe Abley Cc: nanog@nanog.org Subject: RE: [outages] News item: Blackberry services down worldwide
You are correct. The BES uses PSKs to talk to RIM's servers, which
uses them to talk to the devices over the carrier networks. All of
was in complete failure mode until sometime overnight when it appears to have all started flowing again. Someday either Google or Apple will get off their rear ends and roll out an end to end encrypted service that plugs into corporate email/calendar/workgroup services and we can all gladly toss these horrid little devices in the recycle bins where they belong.
Jamie
-----Original Message----- From: Joe Abley [mailto:jabley@hopcount.ca] Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 6:06 PM To: Phil Regnauld Cc: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: [outages] News item: Blackberry services down worldwide
On 2011-10-12, at 18:02, Phil Regnauld wrote:
Joe Abley (jabley) writes:
On 2011-10-12, at 13:05, Leigh Porter wrote:
Email on my iPhone is working fine.. ;-)
The blackberry message service is centralised with a lot of
processing intelligence in the core. Messaging services that use the core as a simple transport and shift the processing intelligence to the edge have different, less-dramatic failure modes.
This is not the case for corporate customers with dedicated servers, AFAIU.
I'm no expert, but my understanding is that at some/most/all traffic between handhelds and a BES, carried from the handheld device
Any idea of when Apple's ActiveSync Implementation will close the gap with what BES does? Like maybe having Important message notifications? Categories? Filters? I use an iPhone, but mail handling on it is lacking. -----Original Message----- From: Matthew Huff [mailto:mhuff@ox.com] Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2011 8:44 AM To: 'Jamie Bowden'; 'Joe Abley' Cc: 'nanog@nanog.org' Subject: RE: [outages] News item: Blackberry services down worldwide It's called Microsoft Exchange ActiveSync :) It works with Android, Apple and Microsoft devices. I believe both Lotus and Groupwise have licensed and support it as well. We have a few (but now, very few) blackberry users remaining. They won't let it go until we rip it out of their hands. then this through
a
cellular network, still flows through RIM.
Joe
I have been following this thread for a while and I will have to say I am a tad confused. Remote wipe has been in the iPhone since iOS3.1.3 And if your phone is locked it will wipe after 10 (if I remember correctly) failed unlock attempts. My iPhone communicates completely encrypted. It is set to VPN back to our office. And if we didn't wan't to do that we could could use TLS on our mail to keep that traffic encrypted. But encrypt all is the best approach for us. Personally, I hate mail push. I watch folks in meetings constantly looking down or typing some response and never fully listening to the speakers and not fully engaged in the meeting. Additionally, mail push is indiscriminate and just interrupts my train of thought when I am working. If a communique is truly important whomever can iMessage,SMS,jabber/POTS me; otherwise the mail can just wait till I check my inbox. I understand others feel differently. On an iPhone today you can get push from exchange, iCloud/iMap, Gmail/GCloud, Yahoo, OSX Server (I believe) or set your phone the check every x minutes (after all what could be so important that 15 latency minutes would cause a catastrophe? (During many catastrophe situations sms could take hours or the voice cell network could be tied up and are you that close to whatever to be able to react). If you need instant response... script it. As for filtering, its one of my issues about my iPhone. However, iOS5 supports message flagging and a filter script back on your desktop (where Mail does accept/process message push via IDLE) can flag a message which will sync to your iPhone. Lastly I have never liked RIM's model. It basically inculcates the idea that "man in the middle" is a good thing which it is not. Just my 2¢ Tom On Oct 13, 2011, at 8:49 AM, Erik Soosalu wrote:
Any idea of when Apple's ActiveSync Implementation will close the gap with what BES does?
Like maybe having Important message notifications? Categories? Filters?
I use an iPhone, but mail handling on it is lacking.
-----Original Message----- From: Matthew Huff [mailto:mhuff@ox.com] Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2011 8:44 AM To: 'Jamie Bowden'; 'Joe Abley' Cc: 'nanog@nanog.org' Subject: RE: [outages] News item: Blackberry services down worldwide
It's called Microsoft Exchange ActiveSync :)
It works with Android, Apple and Microsoft devices. I believe both Lotus and Groupwise have licensed and support it as well. We have a few (but now, very few) blackberry users remaining. They won't let it go until we rip it out of their hands.
-----Original Message----- From: Jamie Bowden [mailto:jamie@photon.com] Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2011 7:36 AM To: Joe Abley Cc: nanog@nanog.org Subject: RE: [outages] News item: Blackberry services down worldwide
You are correct. The BES uses PSKs to talk to RIM's servers, which then uses them to talk to the devices over the carrier networks. All of this was in complete failure mode until sometime overnight when it appears to have all started flowing again. Someday either Google or Apple will get off their rear ends and roll out an end to end encrypted service that plugs into corporate email/calendar/workgroup services and we can all gladly toss these horrid little devices in the recycle bins where they belong.
Jamie
-----Original Message----- From: Joe Abley [mailto:jabley@hopcount.ca] Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 6:06 PM To: Phil Regnauld Cc: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: [outages] News item: Blackberry services down worldwide
On 2011-10-12, at 18:02, Phil Regnauld wrote:
Joe Abley (jabley) writes:
On 2011-10-12, at 13:05, Leigh Porter wrote:
Email on my iPhone is working fine.. ;-)
The blackberry message service is centralised with a lot of
processing intelligence in the core. Messaging services that use the core as a simple transport and shift the processing intelligence to the edge have different, less-dramatic failure modes.
This is not the case for corporate customers with dedicated servers, AFAIU.
I'm no expert, but my understanding is that at some/most/all traffic between handhelds and a BES, carried from the handheld device through a cellular network, still flows through RIM.
Joe
Agreed. Had a customer during the timeframe of this week ditch 90 blackberries for iPhone/android devices. He actually sent me a video after BES finished uninstalling and he shut the server down "so help me I'm never getting another one of these damn coasters." One user said when they got the phone "where is the silly wheelie clicky thing." IT manager said "oh no you just touch the screen." I'm told it was like watching an 8 year old with a box of fireworks and matches.... For those who complain about security on windows mobile, iPhone or android... you can do l2tp vpn and then ActiveSync on top of that over https. Mobile device policies in Exchange for user experience control. Overall much easier than Blackberry, not dependent on someone else's equipment for things like mail delivery and internet browsing, and one less server to care about. -----Original Message----- From: Matthew Huff [mailto:mhuff@ox.com] Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2011 6:44 AM To: 'Jamie Bowden'; 'Joe Abley' Cc: 'nanog@nanog.org' Subject: RE: [outages] News item: Blackberry services down worldwide It's called Microsoft Exchange ActiveSync :) It works with Android, Apple and Microsoft devices. I believe both Lotus and Groupwise have licensed and support it as well. We have a few (but now, very few) blackberry users remaining. They won't let it go until we rip it out of their hands.
-----Original Message----- From: Jamie Bowden [mailto:jamie@photon.com] Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2011 7:36 AM To: Joe Abley Cc: nanog@nanog.org Subject: RE: [outages] News item: Blackberry services down worldwide
You are correct. The BES uses PSKs to talk to RIM's servers, which then uses them to talk to the devices over the carrier networks. All of this was in complete failure mode until sometime overnight when it appears to have all started flowing again. Someday either Google or Apple will get off their rear ends and roll out an end to end encrypted service that plugs into corporate email/calendar/workgroup services and we can all gladly toss these horrid little devices in the recycle bins where they belong.
Jamie
-----Original Message----- From: Joe Abley [mailto:jabley@hopcount.ca] Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 6:06 PM To: Phil Regnauld Cc: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: [outages] News item: Blackberry services down worldwide
On 2011-10-12, at 18:02, Phil Regnauld wrote:
Joe Abley (jabley) writes:
On 2011-10-12, at 13:05, Leigh Porter wrote:
Email on my iPhone is working fine.. ;-)
The blackberry message service is centralised with a lot of
processing intelligence in the core. Messaging services that use the core as a simple transport and shift the processing intelligence to the edge have different, less-dramatic failure modes.
This is not the case for corporate customers with dedicated servers, AFAIU.
I'm no expert, but my understanding is that at some/most/all traffic between handhelds and a BES, carried from the handheld device through a cellular network, still flows through RIM.
Joe
Like Blake mentioned, I for one will also be ditching Blackberry devices due to the poor, irregular service which Blackberry users continue to be subject to due to RIM's inability to provide a stable and reliable service. To add further insult to injury, it just simply is unacceptable to be subject to RIM's high service and licensing costs for BES to ultimately rely on a second-rate infrastructure that causes regular 'blackouts'. Time to more to a standalone device that then relies only on the carriers, which in most cases are just as unreliable. None the less, I for one can't justify paying for an 'enterprise service' to subject to incompetence and instability of the provider. These situations simply arise to often with RIM, yet as a service provider they chose to ignore that impact these outages have on their customers in the corporate arena. Real-time communications in the corporate/enterprise world have no become one of the primary methods of communication, due to the technology RIM et al offer. It is indeed a shame that the likes of Apple iOS & Google Android are yet to provide features that compete with BlackBerrys, such as encryption etc. (I am not particular clued up with regards to Windows Mobile however...) All of which, to date, are features which are leveraged in terms of justifying the cost of implementing a Blackberry solution. Furthermore, I found RIM's somewhat patronising updates from RIM's CIOs and CEOs quite insulting, particularly when an official statement had already been released stating the issues were 'resolved' to later contradict this statement and simple refer to it as some kind of 'mistake'. Unacceptable, as I am sure many of you would agree. Regards, P. -----Original Message----- From: Blake T. Pfankuch [mailto:blake@pfankuch.me] Sent: 13 October 2011 14:08 To: Matthew Huff; 'Jamie Bowden'; 'Joe Abley' Cc: 'nanog@nanog.org' Subject: RE: [outages] News item: Blackberry services down worldwide Agreed. Had a customer during the timeframe of this week ditch 90 blackberries for iPhone/android devices. He actually sent me a video after BES finished uninstalling and he shut the server down "so help me I'm never getting another one of these damn coasters." One user said when they got the phone "where is the silly wheelie clicky thing." IT manager said "oh no you just touch the screen." I'm told it was like watching an 8 year old with a box of fireworks and matches.... For those who complain about security on windows mobile, iPhone or android... you can do l2tp vpn and then ActiveSync on top of that over https. Mobile device policies in Exchange for user experience control. Overall much easier than Blackberry, not dependent on someone else's equipment for things like mail delivery and internet browsing, and one less server to care about.
Pierce, Actually with Windows Mobile and Exchange Enterprise, you can force handheld encryption :) -----Original Message----- From: Pierce Lynch [mailto:p.lynch@netappliant.com] Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2011 8:35 AM To: 'nanog@nanog.org' Subject: RE: [outages] News item: Blackberry services down worldwide Like Blake mentioned, I for one will also be ditching Blackberry devices due to the poor, irregular service which Blackberry users continue to be subject to due to RIM's inability to provide a stable and reliable service. To add further insult to injury, it just simply is unacceptable to be subject to RIM's high service and licensing costs for BES to ultimately rely on a second-rate infrastructure that causes regular 'blackouts'. Time to more to a standalone device that then relies only on the carriers, which in most cases are just as unreliable. None the less, I for one can't justify paying for an 'enterprise service' to subject to incompetence and instability of the provider. These situations simply arise to often with RIM, yet as a service provider they chose to ignore that impact these outages have on their customers in the corporate arena. Real-time communications in the corporate/enterprise world have no become one of the primary methods of communication, due to the technology RIM et al offer. It is indeed a shame that the likes of Apple iOS & Google Android are yet to provide features that compete with BlackBerrys, such as encryption etc. (I am not particular clued up with regards to Windows Mobile however...) All of which, to date, are features which are leveraged in terms of justifying the cost of implementing a Blackberry solution. Furthermore, I found RIM's somewhat patronising updates from RIM's CIOs and CEOs quite insulting, particularly when an official statement had already been released stating the issues were 'resolved' to later contradict this statement and simple refer to it as some kind of 'mistake'. Unacceptable, as I am sure many of you would agree. Regards, P. -----Original Message----- From: Blake T. Pfankuch [mailto:blake@pfankuch.me] Sent: 13 October 2011 14:08 To: Matthew Huff; 'Jamie Bowden'; 'Joe Abley' Cc: 'nanog@nanog.org' Subject: RE: [outages] News item: Blackberry services down worldwide Agreed. Had a customer during the timeframe of this week ditch 90 blackberries for iPhone/android devices. He actually sent me a video after BES finished uninstalling and he shut the server down "so help me I'm never getting another one of these damn coasters." One user said when they got the phone "where is the silly wheelie clicky thing." IT manager said "oh no you just touch the screen." I'm told it was like watching an 8 year old with a box of fireworks and matches.... For those who complain about security on windows mobile, iPhone or android... you can do l2tp vpn and then ActiveSync on top of that over https. Mobile device policies in Exchange for user experience control. Overall much easier than Blackberry, not dependent on someone else's equipment for things like mail delivery and internet browsing, and one less server to care about.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jamie Bowden" <jamie@photon.com>
Someday either Google or Apple will get off their rear ends and roll out an end to end encrypted service that plugs into corporate email/calendar/workgroup services and we can all gladly toss these horrid little devices in the recycle bins where they belong.
<plug>I'm fairly sure K-9 does GPG, at least for the email</plug> Cheers, -- jr 'just a doco writer' a -- Jay R. Ashworth Baylink jra@baylink.com Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100 Ashworth & Associates http://baylink.pitas.com 2000 Land Rover DII St Petersburg FL USA http://photo.imageinc.us +1 727 647 1274
On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 11:13 AM, Jay Ashworth <jra@baylink.com> wrote:
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jamie Bowden" <jamie@photon.com>
Someday either Google or Apple will get off their rear ends and roll out an end to end encrypted service that plugs into corporate email/calendar/workgroup services and we can all gladly toss these horrid little devices in the recycle bins where they belong.
<plug>I'm fairly sure K-9 does GPG, at least for the email</plug>
plus normal mail + k9 will do TLS on SMTP and IMAP... or they both do with my mail server just fine. (idevices seeem to also do this well enough) It's possible that the 'encryption' comment from Jamie is really about encrypting the actual device... which I believe Android[0] will do, I don't know if idevices do though. -chris 0: <http://googleenterprise.blogspot.com/2011/04/putting-android-to-work-for-your.html>
-----Original Message----- From: Christopher Morrow [mailto:morrowc.lists@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2011 11:36 AM To: Jay Ashworth Cc: NANOG Subject: Re: [outages] News item: Blackberry services down worldwide
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jamie Bowden" <jamie@photon.com>
Someday either Google or Apple will get off their rear ends and roll out an end to end encrypted service
plugs into corporate email/calendar/workgroup services and we can all gladly toss these horrid little devices in the recycle bins where
On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 11:13 AM, Jay Ashworth <jra@baylink.com> wrote: that they
belong.
<plug>I'm fairly sure K-9 does GPG, at least for the email</plug>
plus normal mail + k9 will do TLS on SMTP and IMAP... or they both do with my mail server just fine. (idevices seeem to also do this well enough)
It's possible that the 'encryption' comment from Jamie is really about encrypting the actual device... which I believe Android[0] will do, I don't know if idevices do though.
As of 2.3[.x?] (can't remember if it's a sub release that intro'd this), Android devices can be wholly encrypted, though I don't know if they are by default. All these kludges are great on a small scale, but the BES does end to end encryption for transmission, plugs into Exchange, Lotus, Sametime, proxies internal http[s], and lets us manage policies and push out software updates from a central management point. When it works, it's also scalable, which matters when you have thousands of devices to manage. Jamie
Can't but agree with Jamie. The ability to centralize management for all Blackberry users and _force_ them to comply with company policy (it's an investment bank) saved us lot of hassle when, and it happens regularly, people lose their handsets. Otherwise, it would be all unencrypted, unmonitored and unprotected access points to customer's private data. Some of our representatives recently switched to iphones, but nobody from management will ever be allowed anything than a Blackberry. Andrea On 10/13/11 5:55 PM, "Jamie Bowden" <jamie@photon.com> wrote:
-----Original Message----- From: Christopher Morrow [mailto:morrowc.lists@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2011 11:36 AM To: Jay Ashworth Cc: NANOG Subject: Re: [outages] News item: Blackberry services down worldwide
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jamie Bowden" <jamie@photon.com>
Someday either Google or Apple will get off their rear ends and roll out an end to end encrypted service
plugs into corporate email/calendar/workgroup services and we can all gladly toss these horrid little devices in the recycle bins where
On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 11:13 AM, Jay Ashworth <jra@baylink.com> wrote: that they
belong.
<plug>I'm fairly sure K-9 does GPG, at least for the email</plug>
plus normal mail + k9 will do TLS on SMTP and IMAP... or they both do with my mail server just fine. (idevices seeem to also do this well enough)
It's possible that the 'encryption' comment from Jamie is really about encrypting the actual device... which I believe Android[0] will do, I don't know if idevices do though.
As of 2.3[.x?] (can't remember if it's a sub release that intro'd this), Android devices can be wholly encrypted, though I don't know if they are by default. All these kludges are great on a small scale, but the BES does end to end encryption for transmission, plugs into Exchange, Lotus, Sametime, proxies internal http[s], and lets us manage policies and push out software updates from a central management point. When it works, it's also scalable, which matters when you have thousands of devices to manage.
Jamie
ActiveSync on Android allows corporate to force compliance with security policy and allow remote wipe. User cannot complete the exchange account setup without permitting the controls. If the user doesn't agree their sync isn't enabled. Moreover, if corporate requirements change sync is disabled until you approve again. That seems like it covers all the bases to me. Sent from my Verizon Wireless Phone -----Original message----- From: Andrea Gozzi <mls@vp44.net> To: Jamie Bowden <jamie@photon.com>, Christopher Morrow <morrowc.lists@gmail.com>, Jay Ashworth <jra@baylink.com> Cc: NANOG <nanog@nanog.org> Sent: Thu, Oct 13, 2011 17:02:53 GMT+00:00 Subject: Re: NANOG:RE: [outages] News item: Blackberry services down worldwide Can't but agree with Jamie. The ability to centralize management for all Blackberry users and _force_ them to comply with company policy (it's an investment bank) saved us lot of hassle when, and it happens regularly, people lose their handsets. Otherwise, it would be all unencrypted, unmonitored and unprotected access points to customer's private data. Some of our representatives recently switched to iphones, but nobody from management will ever be allowed anything than a Blackberry. Andrea On 10/13/11 5:55 PM, "Jamie Bowden" wrote:
-----Original Message----- From: Christopher Morrow [mailto:morrowc.lists@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2011 11:36 AM To: Jay Ashworth Cc: NANOG Subject: Re: [outages] News item: Blackberry services down worldwide
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jamie Bowden"
Someday either Google or Apple will get off their rear ends and roll out an end to end encrypted service
plugs into corporate email/calendar/workgroup services and we can all gladly toss these horrid little devices in the recycle bins where
On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 11:13 AM, Jay Ashworth wrote: that they
belong.
I'm fairly sure K-9 does GPG, at least for the email
plus normal mail + k9 will do TLS on SMTP and IMAP... or they both do with my mail server just fine. (idevices seeem to also do this well enough)
It's possible that the 'encryption' comment from Jamie is really about encrypting the actual device... which I believe Android[0] will do, I don't know if idevices do though.
As of 2.3[.x?] (can't remember if it's a sub release that intro'd this), Android devices can be wholly encrypted, though I don't know if they are by default. All these kludges are great on a small scale, but the BES does end to end encryption for transmission, plugs into Exchange, Lotus, Sametime, proxies internal http[s], and lets us manage policies and push out software updates from a central management point. When it works, it's also scalable, which matters when you have thousands of devices to manage.
Jamie
On Oct 13, 2011, at 3:21 PM, McCall, Gabriel wrote:
ActiveSync on Android allows corporate to force compliance with security policy and allow remote wipe. User cannot complete the exchange account setup without permitting the controls. If the user doesn't agree their sync isn't enabled. Moreover, if corporate requirements change sync is disabled until you approve again. That seems like it covers all the bases to me.
Same on iThings, plus SSL, wipe if 10 incorrect pass codes entered, enforcement of more than a 4-digit PIN pass code, auto-lock timeout, etc., etc. Any device that doesn't do this is likely old and / or going out of biz. I like Jared's attempt to bring this back on topic, though. :) So going down that path, exactly why is iMessage any different from Skype, AIM, Jabber, etc.? I mean other than likely being part of the OS / seamlessly integrated. (I haven't tried it yet, so I am just assuming Apple has done their standard UI magic on this.) In fact, Skype, just as a for instance, is worse on hotel wifi as launching the app on a laptop makes you a middle node for some conversations. Does Skype on $HANDHELD have the same property? -- TTFN, patrick
-----Original message----- From: Andrea Gozzi <mls@vp44.net> To: Jamie Bowden <jamie@photon.com>, Christopher Morrow <morrowc.lists@gmail.com>, Jay Ashworth <jra@baylink.com> Cc: NANOG <nanog@nanog.org> Sent: Thu, Oct 13, 2011 17:02:53 GMT+00:00 Subject: Re: NANOG:RE: [outages] News item: Blackberry services down worldwide
Can't but agree with Jamie. The ability to centralize management for all Blackberry users and _force_ them to comply with company policy (it's an investment bank) saved us lot of hassle when, and it happens regularly, people lose their handsets. Otherwise, it would be all unencrypted, unmonitored and unprotected access points to customer's private data. Some of our representatives recently switched to iphones, but nobody from management will ever be allowed anything than a Blackberry.
Andrea
On 10/13/11 5:55 PM, "Jamie Bowden" wrote:
-----Original Message----- From: Christopher Morrow [mailto:morrowc.lists@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2011 11:36 AM To: Jay Ashworth Cc: NANOG Subject: Re: [outages] News item: Blackberry services down worldwide
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jamie Bowden"
Someday either Google or Apple will get off their rear ends and roll out an end to end encrypted service
plugs into corporate email/calendar/workgroup services and we can all gladly toss these horrid little devices in the recycle bins where
On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 11:13 AM, Jay Ashworth wrote: that they
belong.
I'm fairly sure K-9 does GPG, at least for the email
plus normal mail + k9 will do TLS on SMTP and IMAP... or they both do with my mail server just fine. (idevices seeem to also do this well enough)
It's possible that the 'encryption' comment from Jamie is really about encrypting the actual device... which I believe Android[0] will do, I don't know if idevices do though.
As of 2.3[.x?] (can't remember if it's a sub release that intro'd this), Android devices can be wholly encrypted, though I don't know if they are by default. All these kludges are great on a small scale, but the BES does end to end encryption for transmission, plugs into Exchange, Lotus, Sametime, proxies internal http[s], and lets us manage policies and push out software updates from a central management point. When it works, it's also scalable, which matters when you have thousands of devices to manage.
Jamie
On 10/13/11 3:30 PM, Patrick W. Gilmore wrote:
In fact, Skype, just as a for instance, is worse on hotel wifi as launching the app on a laptop makes you a middle node for some conversations.
Per the Skype IT administrator guide, a Skype node will not become a supernode unless it has a public IP address and meets the memory, bandwidth, and uptime requirements. It will not become a relay node unless it has a public IP address and is directly reachable from the Internet. It is very unlikely that launching the Skype app on a laptop on hotel wi-fi would meet these requirements.
Does Skype on $HANDHELD have the same property? Not as far as I know, for the obvious reason that handheld devices have network connections that are suboptimal for this.
Matthew Kaufman
On Oct 13, 2011, at 7:26 PM, Matthew Kaufman wrote:
On 10/13/11 3:30 PM, Patrick W. Gilmore wrote:
In fact, Skype, just as a for instance, is worse on hotel wifi as launching the app on a laptop makes you a middle node for some conversations.
Per the Skype IT administrator guide, a Skype node will not become a supernode unless it has a public IP address and meets the memory, bandwidth, and uptime requirements. It will not become a relay node unless it has a public IP address and is directly reachable from the Internet.
It is very unlikely that launching the Skype app on a laptop on hotel wi-fi would meet these requirements.
In the last 5 seconds, without touching Skype or having any active voice or chat sessions open, my computer has had communication with 14 IP addresses. Here is a sample of some: TiggerAir-i7-2:~ patrick$ host 94.193.99.152 152.99.193.94.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer 94-193-99-152.zone7.bethere.co.uk. TiggerAir-i7-2:~ patrick$ host 78.90.137.244 Host 244.137.90.78.in-addr.arpa. not found: 3(NXDOMAIN) TiggerAir-i7-2:~ patrick$ host 175.129.63.150 150.63.129.175.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer KD175129063150.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp. TiggerAir-i7-2:~ patrick$ host 218.190.29.244 Host 244.29.190.218.in-addr.arpa. not found: 3(NXDOMAIN) TiggerAir-i7-2:~ patrick$ host 128.2.238.215 215.238.2.128.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer ETC-NALZAYER.ETC.CMU.EDU. TiggerAir-i7-2:~ patrick$ host 212.187.172.66 Host 66.172.187.212.in-addr.arpa. not found: 3(NXDOMAIN) Those do not look like Skype servers. I guess it is possible everyone in my contact list is somehow pinging me, but that seems a little bit silly. My IP address is 172.30.19.19, hopefully I do not have to explain that this is not a "public IP address". I have been online a few minutes, so unless their uptime requirements are about the same as a regular phone call, it is too short. I will admit, I have plenty of bandwidth available, though. In short, while they can claim my laptop is not being used as a supernode or relay, Skype is still randomly talking to a slew of IP addresses. Anyone know what Skype is doing?
Does Skype on $HANDHELD have the same property? Not as far as I know, for the obvious reason that handheld devices have network connections that are suboptimal for this.
The above happens to my laptop when I am on 3G / EDGE, even when I have a 10-net address. In fact, one of the first things I do on 3G is kill Skype because it noticeably increases my network performance. I haven't checked on my iPhone 'cause I don't have things like tcpdump & little snitch. -- TTFN, patrick
On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 12:11 PM, Patrick W. Gilmore <patrick@ianai.net> wrote:
On Oct 13, 2011, at 7:26 PM, Matthew Kaufman wrote:
On 10/13/11 3:30 PM, Patrick W. Gilmore wrote:
In fact, Skype, just as a for instance, is worse on hotel wifi as launching the app on a laptop makes you a middle node for some conversations.
Per the Skype IT administrator guide, a Skype node will not become a supernode unless it has a public IP address and meets the memory, bandwidth, and uptime requirements. It will not become a relay node unless it has a public IP address and is directly reachable from the Internet.
It is very unlikely that launching the Skype app on a laptop on hotel wi-fi would meet these requirements.
In the last 5 seconds, without touching Skype or having any active voice or chat sessions open, my computer has had communication with 14 IP addresses. Here is a sample of some:
TiggerAir-i7-2:~ patrick$ host 94.193.99.152 152.99.193.94.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer 94-193-99-152.zone7.bethere.co.uk. TiggerAir-i7-2:~ patrick$ host 78.90.137.244 Host 244.137.90.78.in-addr.arpa. not found: 3(NXDOMAIN) TiggerAir-i7-2:~ patrick$ host 175.129.63.150 150.63.129.175.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer KD175129063150.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp. TiggerAir-i7-2:~ patrick$ host 218.190.29.244 Host 244.29.190.218.in-addr.arpa. not found: 3(NXDOMAIN) TiggerAir-i7-2:~ patrick$ host 128.2.238.215 215.238.2.128.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer ETC-NALZAYER.ETC.CMU.EDU. TiggerAir-i7-2:~ patrick$ host 212.187.172.66 Host 66.172.187.212.in-addr.arpa. not found: 3(NXDOMAIN)
Those do not look like Skype servers. I guess it is possible everyone in my contact list is somehow pinging me, but that seems a little bit silly.
My IP address is 172.30.19.19, hopefully I do not have to explain that this is not a "public IP address". I have been online a few minutes, so unless their uptime requirements are about the same as a regular phone call, it is too short. I will admit, I have plenty of bandwidth available, though.
And, then there is the increasing prevalence of squat space which may muddy common heuristics.
In short, while they can claim my laptop is not being used as a supernode or relay, Skype is still randomly talking to a slew of IP addresses. Anyone know what Skype is doing?
Does Skype on $HANDHELD have the same property? Not as far as I know, for the obvious reason that handheld devices have network connections that are suboptimal for this.
The above happens to my laptop when I am on 3G / EDGE, even when I have a 10-net address. In fact, one of the first things I do on 3G is kill Skype because it noticeably increases my network performance.
I haven't checked on my iPhone 'cause I don't have things like tcpdump & little snitch.
-- TTFN, patrick
On 10/14/11 12:11 PM, Patrick W. Gilmore wrote:
Those do not look like Skype servers. I guess it is possible everyone in my contact list is somehow pinging me, but that seems a little bit silly.
How do you think peer-to-peer presence (online/away/do-not-disturb/offline) systems work? Matthew Kaufman
Howdy, On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 8:11 PM, Patrick W. Gilmore <patrick@ianai.net> wrote:
On Oct 13, 2011, at 7:26 PM, Matthew Kaufman wrote:
On 10/13/11 3:30 PM, Patrick W. Gilmore wrote:
In fact, Skype, just as a for instance, is worse on hotel wifi as launching the app on a laptop makes you a middle node for some conversations.
Per the Skype IT administrator guide, a Skype node will not become a supernode unless it has a public IP address and meets the memory, bandwidth, and uptime requirements. It will not become a relay node unless it has a public IP address and is directly reachable from the Internet.
It is very unlikely that launching the Skype app on a laptop on hotel wi-fi would meet these requirements.
In the last 5 seconds, without touching Skype or having any active voice or chat sessions open, my computer has had communication with 14 IP addresses. Here is a sample of some:
For "IT administrators" (which probably qualifies most people on this list) there is a detailed 26 page guide to how Skype communicates on a network, when you may become a supernode, and how to configure the program (including to never become a supernode) using GPO (registry switches) or XML files at http://download.skype.com/share/business/guides/skype-it-administrators-guid.... There is a summary of the Supernodes section (concentrating on how to stop supernodes happening if you have no control of the client) at http://www.skype.com/intl/en-us/security/universities/. Anybody who might end up with Skyoe clients on their network might want to give it a gander, as it has some useful info on things like network impact (along with a lot of stuff that nobody cares about and you can skip). HTH, Alex
On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 12:21 PM, McCall, Gabriel < Gabriel.McCall@thyssenkrupp.com> wrote:
ActiveSync on Android allows corporate to force compliance with security policy and allow remote wipe. User cannot complete the exchange account setup without permitting the controls. If the user doesn't agree their sync isn't enabled. Moreover, if corporate requirements change sync is disabled until you approve again. That seems like it covers all the bases to me.
There's two key differences between ActiveSync and BES. The first is that ActiveSync implementations vary widely between different manufacturers/implementations/versions/etc. There is a core set of features that all manufacturers must implement, but it's a very small percentage of the full feature set of controls that ActiveSync supports. Things like enforcing a PIN code fit into this category, but other options like disabling the camera and (from memory) device encryption or even remote wipe are NOT in this category. As a result, even if you enable these features on your Exchange/ActiveSync server, you can't be sure that they are actually being enforced as you can't readily control which devices are being used with ActiveSync, and (realistically) you can't stop a user from changing devices so that even if you gave them a handset that supported all the features you wanted, they could simply move over to a new device that didn't. The second key difference is inbound v's outbound. ActiveSync requires you to allow connections into your network from outside, where BES doesn't. In todays world that's not really an issue - especially as most people will have their email servers accessible from the Internet in some way or other - but in BB's heyday this alone was one of the key differientators for Blackberry v's anything else (be that ActiveSync, POP/IMAP/etc, or any other protocols) With so many companies today working on the entire concept of Mobile Device Management (MDM), Blackberry will fade into insignificance in the not too distant future if they don't come out with something better than the competition - but even today they still allow far better control over handsets than ActiveSync alone does. Scott.
Exchange administration is not my primary job, but in my past experience on Exchange and the iPhone, if I enforced a security policy that the phone could not meet then the user would not be able to sync with the server and setup their account. I remember having to tone back the security policy to a point where the iPhone would actually sync. So effectively they are enforced. You can also simply limit what ActiveSync devices are allowed. If you don't like iPhones but Android is ok, you can do that... at least in Exchange 2010 I can. -Vinny -----Original Message----- From: Scott Howard [mailto:scott@doc.net.au] Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2011 5:42 PM To: McCall, Gabriel Cc: NANOG Subject: Re: NANOG:RE: [outages] News item: Blackberry services down worldwide On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 12:21 PM, McCall, Gabriel < Gabriel.McCall@thyssenkrupp.com> wrote:
ActiveSync on Android allows corporate to force compliance with security policy and allow remote wipe. User cannot complete the exchange account setup without permitting the controls. If the user doesn't agree their sync isn't enabled. Moreover, if corporate requirements change sync is disabled until you approve again. That seems like it covers all the bases to me.
There's two key differences between ActiveSync and BES. The first is that ActiveSync implementations vary widely between different manufacturers/implementations/versions/etc. There is a core set of features that all manufacturers must implement, but it's a very small percentage of the full feature set of controls that ActiveSync supports. Things like enforcing a PIN code fit into this category, but other options like disabling the camera and (from memory) device encryption or even remote wipe are NOT in this category. As a result, even if you enable these features on your Exchange/ActiveSync server, you can't be sure that they are actually being enforced as you can't readily control which devices are being used with ActiveSync, and (realistically) you can't stop a user from changing devices so that even if you gave them a handset that supported all the features you wanted, they could simply move over to a new device that didn't. The second key difference is inbound v's outbound. ActiveSync requires you to allow connections into your network from outside, where BES doesn't. In todays world that's not really an issue - especially as most people will have their email servers accessible from the Internet in some way or other - but in BB's heyday this alone was one of the key differientators for Blackberry v's anything else (be that ActiveSync, POP/IMAP/etc, or any other protocols) With so many companies today working on the entire concept of Mobile Device Management (MDM), Blackberry will fade into insignificance in the not too distant future if they don't come out with something better than the competition - but even today they still allow far better control over handsets than ActiveSync alone does. Scott.
On Oct 13, 2011, at 11:35 AM, Christopher Morrow wrote:
It's possible that the 'encryption' comment from Jamie is really about encrypting the actual device... which I believe Android[0] will do, I don't know if idevices do though.
I think the big problem is that rev1 of iDevice did not include on-device crypto, and there was a case where they also 'lied' about their crypto capability to the servers. Rebuilding this trust can take some time. I do expect that with the iMessage stuff that was released yesterday (SMS/MMSoIP to email/phone#) many more companies will shift to using that instead as the value of BBM is decreased. I also wonder what the impact of iMessage and others will be on places like hotel networks as the devices camp out longer/more often on the wifi, etc. We observed the impact to a hotel of the NANOG crowd this week (i wonder if there will be lessons learned on the part of lodgenet, etc?) I know personally I've observed the attwifi ssid expanding to more places (including hilton branded properties) in the past 6 months to offload cellular data. - Jared
On 13/10/11 19:56, Jared Mauch wrote:
Rebuilding this trust can take some time. I do expect that with the iMessage stuff that was released yesterday (SMS/MMSoIP to email/phone#) many more companies will shift to using that instead as the value of BBM is decreased.
I also wonder what the impact of iMessage and others will be on places like hotel networks as the devices camp out longer/more often on the wifi, etc. We observed the impact to a hotel of the NANOG crowd this week (i wonder if there will be lessons learned on the part of lodgenet, etc?)
If we talking about iMessage as replace of BBM, that's probably fine, but it's really niche market. I was really expecting them to release that stuff and allow desktop users to chat with idevice and making iMessage s2s(XMPP) compatible, so anyone could chat with idevice, even not supporting all fancy features, but at least dumb texting.
-----Original Message----- From: Nikolay Shopik [mailto:shopik@inblock.ru] Sent: 14 October 2011 10:17 To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: [outages] News item: Blackberry services down worldwide
Rebuilding this trust can take some time. I do expect that with the iMessage stuff that was released yesterday (SMS/MMSoIP to email/phone#) many more companies will shift to using that instead as the value of BBM is decreased.
I also wonder what the impact of iMessage and others will be on
On 13/10/11 19:56, Jared Mauch wrote: places like hotel networks as the devices camp out longer/more often on the wifi, etc. We observed the impact to a hotel of the NANOG crowd this week (i wonder if there will be lessons learned on the part of lodgenet, etc?)
If we talking about iMessage as replace of BBM, that's probably fine, but it's really niche market. I was really expecting them to release that stuff and allow desktop users to chat with idevice and making iMessage s2s(XMPP) compatible, so anyone could chat with idevice, even not supporting all fancy features, but at least dumb texting.
My iThings camp on WiFi all the time anyway as they are waiting for push updates, checking mail etc. Of course, all these little things add up and add to the total network traffic (and port counts for NAT)so they all take a toll on networks. I agree though, I would have liked to have seen iMessage cross platform. One of the great things about Skype is that I can talk from PeeCee to MAC to iThing to whatever.. -- Leigh ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________
Jared, On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 5:56 PM, Jared Mauch <jared@puck.nether.net> wrote:
Rebuilding this trust can take some time. I do expect that with the iMessage stuff that was released yesterday (SMS/MMSoIP to email/phone#) many more companies will shift to using that instead as the value of BBM is decreased.
With iMessage, Apple is following the lead of multi-platform apps such as Viber (integrated voice over ip) and whatsapp (integrated "rich" texting over ip). Integrated meaning the unique name/key registered in the system's name lookup service is your phone number, so you automagically discover who of all your address book entries have the application. Turning on whatsapp on my 360 contact address book yielded me 10% of my contact list *online* using it. :) Not being multi-vendor/platform, I wonder if iMessage on iPhone is going to reach similar uptake. Being installed from start certainly helps though, but not piggy backing on the phone numbers is a clear strategic error in my opinion (apple IDs are obviously a long long way from being as universal as phone numbers). I tried out whatsapp yesterday on an old Symbian S60 Nokia (N97) and it works great. Only thing I regret is not trying it out sooner. Now, if mobile devices only had ... globally unique and *reachable* IP addresses, you could even envision sending messages/pictures/video directly from your own device to a peer, with no need for bouncing through overloaded centralized bottlenecks, such as is the case with whatsapp (and certainly iMessage as well). There's certainly a business case in there for a legacy-free, bandwidth-optimized, IP only, LTE-network... (read: no [stupid] tunnels)
I also wonder what the impact of iMessage and others will be on places like hotel networks as the devices camp out longer/more often on the wifi, etc. We observed the impact to a hotel of the NANOG crowd this week (i wonder if there will be lessons learned on the part of lodgenet, etc?)
I know personally I've observed the attwifi ssid expanding to more places (including hilton branded properties) in the past 6 months to offload cellular data.
Offloading is wise, indeed. Cheers, Martin
What I'm not digging about the entire iMessage I turned off my iMessage option and someone else here in the office was trying to send me a txt.
From the looks of it the iPhone does not let you pick between wanting to send an iMessage or txt I could be wrong, but his phone was forcing iMessage and of course I was not getting the messages. Little bit of an issue not getting those messages.
Carlos Alcantar Race Communications / Race Team Member 101 Haskins Way, So. San Francisco, CA. 94080 Phone: +1 415 376 3314 Fax: +1 650 246 8901 / carlos *at* race.com / http://www.race.com On 10/14/11 11:48 AM, "Martin Millnert" <millnert@gmail.com> wrote:
Jared,
On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 5:56 PM, Jared Mauch <jared@puck.nether.net> wrote:
Rebuilding this trust can take some time. I do expect that with the iMessage stuff that was released yesterday (SMS/MMSoIP to email/phone#) many more companies will shift to using that instead as the value of BBM is decreased.
With iMessage, Apple is following the lead of multi-platform apps such as Viber (integrated voice over ip) and whatsapp (integrated "rich" texting over ip). Integrated meaning the unique name/key registered in the system's name lookup service is your phone number, so you automagically discover who of all your address book entries have the application. Turning on whatsapp on my 360 contact address book yielded me 10% of my contact list *online* using it. :)
Not being multi-vendor/platform, I wonder if iMessage on iPhone is going to reach similar uptake. Being installed from start certainly helps though, but not piggy backing on the phone numbers is a clear strategic error in my opinion (apple IDs are obviously a long long way from being as universal as phone numbers).
I tried out whatsapp yesterday on an old Symbian S60 Nokia (N97) and it works great. Only thing I regret is not trying it out sooner.
Now, if mobile devices only had ... globally unique and *reachable* IP addresses, you could even envision sending messages/pictures/video directly from your own device to a peer, with no need for bouncing through overloaded centralized bottlenecks, such as is the case with whatsapp (and certainly iMessage as well).
There's certainly a business case in there for a legacy-free, bandwidth-optimized, IP only, LTE-network... (read: no [stupid] tunnels)
I also wonder what the impact of iMessage and others will be on places like hotel networks as the devices camp out longer/more often on the wifi, etc. We observed the impact to a hotel of the NANOG crowd this week (i wonder if there will be lessons learned on the part of lodgenet, etc?)
I know personally I've observed the attwifi ssid expanding to more places (including hilton branded properties) in the past 6 months to offload cellular data.
Offloading is wise, indeed.
Cheers, Martin
participants (27)
-
Alex Brooks -
Andrea Gozzi -
Ben Albee -
Blake T. Pfankuch -
Cameron Byrne -
Carlos Alcantar -
Carlos Martinez-Cagnazzo -
Christopher Morrow -
D. Marshall Lemcoe Jr. -
Erik Soosalu -
Jamie Bowden -
Jared Mauch -
Jay Ashworth -
Joe Abley -
Leigh Porter -
Martin Millnert -
Matthew Huff -
Matthew Kaufman -
McCall, Gabriel -
Nikolay Shopik -
Patrick W. Gilmore -
Phil Regnauld -
Pierce Lynch -
Scott Howard -
steve pirk [egrep] -
TR Shaw -
Vinny_Abello＠Dell.com