Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2011 20:49:48 -0400 From: Alex Rubenstein <alex@corp.nac.net> I am in the process of building a house. I designed a room that can accommodate three 24 x 36 inch cabinets or four post racks. I will likely install a APC 2200 watt UPS in the bottom of two of the racks, and the third will be a cross-connect field, patch panels, etc.
The room will have a small, ductless ac unit, maybe a ton or a little more, which should be good for about 3 to 5 kw of load.
The house is backed up by a 48 kw genset with an auto transfer switch.
The weakness will be only one provider of connectivity.
Damn, and people claim I'm nuts! You know, you could go whole hog and multihome. I've got 1 cabinet and 1 two-post rack in the basement. I'm also building out a small patch panel in a closet on the second floor. That way, I don't have to do so many home-runs from the wall ports in the living spaces back down to the basement. -Coy
Damn, and people claim I'm nuts!
I know I am, thanks.
You know, you could go whole hog and multihome.
Trust me, if I could, I would certainly do dark to my house.
I've got 1 cabinet and 1 two-post rack in the basement. I'm also building out a small patch panel in a closet on the second floor.
That way, I don't have to do so many home-runs from the wall ports in the living spaces back down to the basement.
Been there, done that, in the current home. Two MDF's, upstairs. I hate it. For the cost (not much) going to home run everything. Ethernet, coax, speakers, etc.
On 08/12/2011 08:53 PM, Alex Rubenstein wrote:
. Trust me, if I could, I would certainly do dark to my house.
The last house I was in, was 500 feet from AT&T fiber and easy walking distance to the CO. My sister in law lives there now. I'm considering putting a rack or two in the garage for disaster recovery purposes.
Been there, done that, in the current home. Two MDF's, upstairs. I hate it. For the cost (not much) going to home run everything. Ethernet, coax, speakers, etc.
Nice. Please write this up. I want to do the same. Hoping I can rack mount everything and have an epic setup. Every room would have ethernet drop, coax, speaker. What about video? Hmmm. What about fiber drop in every room as well?
I live on a farm and I have a number of data runs between buildings that are copper ethernet pulled through buried conduits. (It was what I could afford when I put it in). We have trouble from time to time with damage from lightning. (I've taken to using an intermediate "throwaway" 5-port switch after the surge suppressors on the cable after building entry, but still stuff gets blown up now and then. The longer runs of outside ethernet have one or more toadstools with small switches used as repeaters in the middle. Well, I would like to convert the whole outside mess to fiber to eliminate this problem, and the per-foot price of 6 or 12 strand single mode cables is pretty reasonable nowadays... But, I'm not very current on the most economical methods for splicing and terminating the fiber, which of course I would need to do on a "personal" sized budget. Any suggestions? On Sat, Aug 13, 2011 at 12:16 AM, Charles N Wyble <charles@knownelement.com>wrote:
On 08/12/2011 08:53 PM, Alex Rubenstein wrote:
. Trust me, if I could, I would certainly do dark to my house.
The last house I was in, was 500 feet from AT&T fiber and easy walking distance to the CO. My sister in law lives there now. I'm considering putting a rack or two in the garage for disaster recovery purposes.
Been there, done that, in the current home. Two MDF's, upstairs. I hate
it. For the cost (not much) going to home run everything. Ethernet, coax, speakers, etc.
Nice. Please write this up. I want to do the same. Hoping I can rack mount everything and have an epic setup. Every room would have ethernet drop, coax, speaker. What about video? Hmmm. What about fiber drop in every room as well?
On Aug 13, 2011, at 7:23 AM, Dorn Hetzel wrote:
I live on a farm and I have a number of data runs between buildings that are copper ethernet pulled through buried conduits. (It was what I could afford when I put it in). We have trouble from time to time with damage from lightning. (I've taken to using an intermediate "throwaway" 5-port switch after the surge suppressors on the cable after building entry, but still stuff gets blown up now and then. The longer runs of outside ethernet have one or more toadstools with small switches used as repeaters in the middle.
Well, I would like to convert the whole outside mess to fiber to eliminate this problem, and the per-foot price of 6 or 12 strand single mode cables is pretty reasonable nowadays... But, I'm not very current on the most economical methods for splicing and terminating the fiber, which of course I would need to do on a "personal" sized budget. Any suggestions?
This is somewhat off topic but have you tried any ethernet surge protectors? I use them here in the jungle with lots of lightning and it works good if your overall install is sound. Also you have to have your electrical ground tied to the conduit so it all stays at the same potential. But still fiber is the way to go. You could also go wireless with a pair of Ubiquiti Nanostation M2's Greg
On Sat, Aug 13, 2011 at 11:41 AM, Greg Ihnen <os10rules@gmail.com> wrote:
On Aug 13, 2011, at 7:23 AM, Dorn Hetzel wrote:
I live on a farm and I have a number of data runs between buildings that are copper ethernet pulled through buried conduits. (It was what I could afford when I put it in). We have trouble from time to time with damage from lightning. (I've taken to using an intermediate "throwaway" 5-port switch after the surge suppressors on the cable after building entry, but still stuff gets blown up now and then. The longer runs of outside ethernet have one or more toadstools with small switches used as repeaters in the middle.
Well, I would like to convert the whole outside mess to fiber to eliminate this problem, and the per-foot price of 6 or 12 strand single mode cables is pretty reasonable nowadays... But, I'm not very current on the most economical methods for splicing and terminating the fiber, which of course I would need to do on a "personal" sized budget. Any suggestions?
This is somewhat off topic but have you tried any ethernet surge protectors? I use them here in the jungle with lots of lightning and it works good if your overall install is sound. Also you have to have your electrical ground tied to the conduit so it all stays at the same potential. But still fiber is the way to go. You could also go wireless with a pair of Ubiquiti Nanostation M2's
Greg
Greg, Yes, that's the part about "5-port switch after the surge suppressors on the cable after building entry". Immediately after building entry I use HyperLink HGLN-CAT6 Lightning Protectors (See: http://www.l-com.com/item.aspx?id=22171 ) Then I connect to a "throwaway" 5-port switch (whatever was on sale last time I ran out). This switch is connected to it's own throwaway UPS, which is plugged into a separate power circuit from everything else. [[[ Note: If I could find cheap enough switches with an optical interface I would be switching to optical at this point! ]]] Then I connect from the throwaway switch to the real switch. But STILL I lose ports on the real switch from time to time. So converting the outside plant to fiber is a real goal. And the fiber prices are darn reasonable nowadays for 6 or 12 strands of 9/125: (Example http://www.showmecables.com/viewItem.asp?idProduct=10493 ) But outside plant fiber was never my thing, and I have no decent idea about how to get it spliced and terminated for reasonable costs, or really even what would be reasonable. Regards, -Dorn
On Aug 13, 2011, at 11:28 AM, Dorn Hetzel wrote:
On Sat, Aug 13, 2011 at 11:41 AM, Greg Ihnen <os10rules@gmail.com> wrote: On Aug 13, 2011, at 7:23 AM, Dorn Hetzel wrote:
I live on a farm and I have a number of data runs between buildings that are copper ethernet pulled through buried conduits. (It was what I could afford when I put it in). We have trouble from time to time with damage from lightning. (I've taken to using an intermediate "throwaway" 5-port switch after the surge suppressors on the cable after building entry, but still stuff gets blown up now and then. The longer runs of outside ethernet have one or more toadstools with small switches used as repeaters in the middle.
Well, I would like to convert the whole outside mess to fiber to eliminate this problem, and the per-foot price of 6 or 12 strand single mode cables is pretty reasonable nowadays... But, I'm not very current on the most economical methods for splicing and terminating the fiber, which of course I would need to do on a "personal" sized budget. Any suggestions?
This is somewhat off topic but have you tried any ethernet surge protectors? I use them here in the jungle with lots of lightning and it works good if your overall install is sound. Also you have to have your electrical ground tied to the conduit so it all stays at the same potential. But still fiber is the way to go. You could also go wireless with a pair of Ubiquiti Nanostation M2's
Greg
Greg,
Yes, that's the part about "5-port switch after the surge suppressors on the cable after building entry".
Immediately after building entry I use HyperLink HGLN-CAT6 Lightning Protectors (See: http://www.l-com.com/item.aspx?id=22171 )
Then I connect to a "throwaway" 5-port switch (whatever was on sale last time I ran out). This switch is connected to it's own throwaway UPS, which is plugged into a separate power circuit from everything else.
[[[ Note: If I could find cheap enough switches with an optical interface I would be switching to optical at this point! ]]]
Then I connect from the throwaway switch to the real switch.
But STILL I lose ports on the real switch from time to time. So converting the outside plant to fiber is a real goal.
And the fiber prices are darn reasonable nowadays for 6 or 12 strands of 9/125: (Example http://www.showmecables.com/viewItem.asp?idProduct=10493 )
But outside plant fiber was never my thing, and I have no decent idea about how to get it spliced and terminated for reasonable costs, or really even what would be reasonable.
Regards,
-Dorn
Dom, If you're still losing the switches then you've got issues that would be cheaper to solve with fiber or wireless instead of grounding. The folks on with Wireless Internet Service Provider's Association (WISPA) www.wispa.org do these kinds of installs all the time, doing short fiber runs up towers etc. If you put out a message there I'm sure you'll get all kinds of help. Greg
On Aug 13, 2011, at 11:58 AM, Dorn Hetzel wrote:
[[[ Note: If I could find cheap enough switches with an optical interface I would be switching to optical at this point! ]]]
There are some media converters out there that take a SFP/GLC <-> RJ45 for $20-25, e.g.: http://www.amazon.com/gp/search/ref=as_li_qf_sp_sr_tl?ie=UTF8&keywords=B003H44S40&tag=pucknethernet-20&index=aps&linkCode=ur2&camp=1789&creative=9325 (disclosure; amazon referral url) For the cost of 2 of these, and SFPs (plus an x-over cable) it may be worth it. I know personally I have observed people giving away SFPs as marketing. This may work well for your home/farm setup. I'm sure there are likely cheaper media converters as well, but this is in the same price range as most 5-port gigabit switches (x2 obviously) - Jared
On Sat, Aug 13, 2011 at 7:53 AM, Dorn Hetzel <dorn@hetzel.org> wrote:
Well, I would like to convert the whole outside mess to fiber to eliminate this problem, and the per-foot price of 6 or 12 strand single mode cables is pretty reasonable nowadays... But, I'm not very current on the most economical methods for splicing and terminating the fiber, which of course I would need to do on a "personal" sized budget. Any suggestions?
Amp Lightcrimp Plus (NOT Lightcrimp XTC). Very easy to use, almost as easy as terminating copper. But good luck finding it cheap, at least for my definition of "cheap." The alternative is: you can hunt eBay for preterminated cable. http://computers.shop.ebay.com/4-Meters-Up-/64046/i.html and search for "(SC,LC,ST)" ordered by highest price first. After the first 100 or 200 items, you'll get to the ones you want. For example, here's duplex 300 meter multimode with SC connectors: http://cgi.ebay.com/3/390078528910 Regards, Bill Herrin -- William D. Herrin ................ herrin@dirtside.com bill@herrin.us 3005 Crane Dr. ...................... Web: <http://bill.herrin.us/> Falls Church, VA 22042-3004
You can order custom-made patch cables that are outdoor rated from any decent company that sells fiber patch cables for a living. If you want it to be locatable, make sure it includes some kind of metal strip. Here's some pre-made armored options: http://goo.gl/sJ9NQ http://www.jemcables.com/ecommerce/CatalogSubCategoryDisplay.aspx?CID=101 http://www.macmall.com/p/Cables-To-Go-Cables/product~dpno~7910804~pdp.fhcjje i You can also lay sealed PVC conduit and run indoor-rated cable if you keep it below the frost line. Frank -----Original Message----- From: Dorn Hetzel [mailto:dorn@hetzel.org] Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2011 6:54 AM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: NANOG Digest, Vol 43, Issue 53 I live on a farm and I have a number of data runs between buildings that are copper ethernet pulled through buried conduits. (It was what I could afford when I put it in). We have trouble from time to time with damage from lightning. (I've taken to using an intermediate "throwaway" 5-port switch after the surge suppressors on the cable after building entry, but still stuff gets blown up now and then. The longer runs of outside ethernet have one or more toadstools with small switches used as repeaters in the middle. Well, I would like to convert the whole outside mess to fiber to eliminate this problem, and the per-foot price of 6 or 12 strand single mode cables is pretty reasonable nowadays... But, I'm not very current on the most economical methods for splicing and terminating the fiber, which of course I would need to do on a "personal" sized budget. Any suggestions? On Sat, Aug 13, 2011 at 12:16 AM, Charles N Wyble <charles@knownelement.com>wrote:
On 08/12/2011 08:53 PM, Alex Rubenstein wrote:
. Trust me, if I could, I would certainly do dark to my house.
The last house I was in, was 500 feet from AT&T fiber and easy walking distance to the CO. My sister in law lives there now. I'm considering putting a rack or two in the garage for disaster recovery purposes.
Been there, done that, in the current home. Two MDF's, upstairs. I hate
it. For the cost (not much) going to home run everything. Ethernet, coax, speakers, etc.
Nice. Please write this up. I want to do the same. Hoping I can rack mount everything and have an epic setup. Every room would have ethernet drop, coax, speaker. What about video? Hmmm. What about fiber drop in every room as well?
On 08/19/2011 11:14 PM, Frank Bulk wrote:
You can order custom-made patch cables that are outdoor rated from any decent company that sells fiber patch cables for a living. If you want it to be locatable, make sure it includes some kind of metal strip. Note that he wanted to use fiber for lightning protection; the metal strip rather negates that...
-- Pete
Here's some pre-made armored options: http://goo.gl/sJ9NQ http://www.jemcables.com/ecommerce/CatalogSubCategoryDisplay.aspx?CID=101 http://www.macmall.com/p/Cables-To-Go-Cables/product~dpno~7910804~pdp.fhcjje i
You can also lay sealed PVC conduit and run indoor-rated cable if you keep it below the frost line.
Frank
On Aug 20, 2011, at 3:09, Pete Carah <pete@altadena.net> wrote: Note that he wanted to use fiber for lightning protection; the metal strip rather negates that... Only if you plug the metal strip into your equipment. We usually don't do that with locate wires (they usually sit unterminated, or maybe grounded, depending on site practice). ~Matt
On 08/20/2011 02:07 PM, Matt Addison wrote:
On Aug 20, 2011, at 3:09, Pete Carah <pete@altadena.net> wrote:
Note that he wanted to use fiber for lightning protection; the metal strip rather negates that...
Only if you plug the metal strip into your equipment. We usually don't do that with locate wires (they usually sit unterminated, or maybe grounded, depending on site practice). Never underestimate lightning!!!
Actually unterminated is still bad for the equipment if the conductor comes within a few inches of it (and lightning hits don't have to be direct to get damage even from this)... The best is non-metallic fiber in well-grounded metallic conduit (that ends at the building entry) (there are safety considerations here; the building or at least the entry area has to be built to handle the ground currents and not mix them into either power or phone lines) if you are in a serious lightning area. Sometime look at the external grounding at a (properly-installed) cell site if you can get close enough to one to see it. (and the power folks are even more paranoid, sometimes they will run a microwave link across a street to avoid conductive communications links. Then again, they can make their own lightning, and they do (usually) plan for it.) If unterminated to a junction point at the entry wall, then non-conductive from there to the equipment, it will be better for the equipment, but lightning hitting the cable directly will likely explode the strip where it hits, normally cutting the fiber for a few inches; this can easily happen even if nothing appears to be grounded (think capacitor; the voltage and current rate-of-rise makes capacitors and inductors out of things you wouldn't expect). And a grounded strip can attract the lightning, even through an insulating sheath (again, think capacitor). If you wonder, I have some darkened parts left over from some satellite receivers that had been connected to well-grounded antennas; that helps but not always enough... If the locate wire is big enough (say 10awg, maybe 12) then it probably won't explode but even that can't be guaranteed; I've seen a #4 wire melted half-way through from what was probably a direct hit (this was in California in an area not known for lightning, even; we only got a significant storm once or twice every few years.) And I had an old 14.4k modem (this was the early 1990's) burned out by a direct hit at the CO 1.5 miles away (I happened to be near the CO and saw the hit at the same time my link disappeared so I know that was what did it... Got back home and found the modem didn't recover.) (same part of California.) -- Pete
Here's some background on two approaches that allow for locating: http://www.fecinc.com/images/dynImages/Outside%20Plant%20FTTH%20presentation 1.pdf (page 11) Frank -----Original Message----- From: Pete Carah [mailto:pete@altadena.net] Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2011 2:09 AM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: NANOG Digest, Vol 43, Issue 53 On 08/19/2011 11:14 PM, Frank Bulk wrote:
You can order custom-made patch cables that are outdoor rated from any decent company that sells fiber patch cables for a living. If you want it to be locatable, make sure it includes some kind of metal strip. Note that he wanted to use fiber for lightning protection; the metal strip rather negates that...
-- Pete
Here's some pre-made armored options: http://goo.gl/sJ9NQ http://www.jemcables.com/ecommerce/CatalogSubCategoryDisplay.aspx?CID=101
http://www.macmall.com/p/Cables-To-Go-Cables/product~dpno~7910804~pdp.fhcjje
i
You can also lay sealed PVC conduit and run indoor-rated cable if you keep it below the frost line.
Frank
Why not use wireless for it all if the bandwidth is enough. 5.8ghz kit is pretty cheap and fast. -- Leigh Porter On 20 Aug 2011, at 04:16, "Frank Bulk" <frnkblk@iname.com> wrote:
You can order custom-made patch cables that are outdoor rated from any decent company that sells fiber patch cables for a living. If you want it to be locatable, make sure it includes some kind of metal strip.
Here's some pre-made armored options: http://goo.gl/sJ9NQ http://www.jemcables.com/ecommerce/CatalogSubCategoryDisplay.aspx?CID=101 http://www.macmall.com/p/Cables-To-Go-Cables/product~dpno~7910804~pdp.fhcjje i
You can also lay sealed PVC conduit and run indoor-rated cable if you keep it below the frost line.
Frank
-----Original Message----- From: Dorn Hetzel [mailto:dorn@hetzel.org] Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2011 6:54 AM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: NANOG Digest, Vol 43, Issue 53
I live on a farm and I have a number of data runs between buildings that are copper ethernet pulled through buried conduits. (It was what I could afford when I put it in). We have trouble from time to time with damage from lightning. (I've taken to using an intermediate "throwaway" 5-port switch after the surge suppressors on the cable after building entry, but still stuff gets blown up now and then. The longer runs of outside ethernet have one or more toadstools with small switches used as repeaters in the middle.
Well, I would like to convert the whole outside mess to fiber to eliminate this problem, and the per-foot price of 6 or 12 strand single mode cables is pretty reasonable nowadays... But, I'm not very current on the most economical methods for splicing and terminating the fiber, which of course I would need to do on a "personal" sized budget. Any suggestions?
On Sat, Aug 13, 2011 at 12:16 AM, Charles N Wyble <charles@knownelement.com>wrote:
On 08/12/2011 08:53 PM, Alex Rubenstein wrote:
. Trust me, if I could, I would certainly do dark to my house.
The last house I was in, was 500 feet from AT&T fiber and easy walking distance to the CO. My sister in law lives there now. I'm considering putting a rack or two in the garage for disaster recovery purposes.
Been there, done that, in the current home. Two MDF's, upstairs. I hate
it. For the cost (not much) going to home run everything. Ethernet, coax, speakers, etc.
Nice. Please write this up. I want to do the same. Hoping I can rack mount everything and have an epic setup. Every room would have ethernet drop, coax, speaker. What about video? Hmmm. What about fiber drop in every room as well?
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Coy Hile" <coy.hile@coyhile.com>
From: Alex Rubenstein <alex@corp.nac.net>
The weakness will be only one provider of connectivity.
Damn, and people claim I'm nuts!
You know, you could go whole hog and multihome.
This thread do give "multihome" a whole new meaning, don't it? Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth Baylink jra@baylink.com Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100 Ashworth & Associates http://baylink.pitas.com 2000 Land Rover DII St Petersburg FL USA http://photo.imageinc.us +1 727 647 1274
participants (12)
-
Alex Rubenstein -
Charles N Wyble -
Coy Hile -
Dorn Hetzel -
Frank Bulk -
Greg Ihnen -
Jared Mauch -
Jay Ashworth -
Leigh Porter -
Matt Addison -
Pete Carah -
William Herrin