Hawaiian ILEC infrastructure and fire
Recently saw an aerial video where an entire neighborhood in Laihana had burned down *except* for the concrete block structure small ILEC CO. Pictures I have seen of other ILEC sites in Hawaii closely resemble some GTE sites in the Pacific Northwest (now Ziply), which makes sense with the history of GTE in Hawaii. Does anyone have some more detailed photos or examples of a telecom site that's survived while everything else around it is burned up? I'm looking to share this with some contacts in BC for rural telecom purposes and disaster preparedness discussions.
On 8/11/23 05:17, Eric Kuhnke wrote:
Recently saw an aerial video where an entire neighborhood in Laihana had burned down *except* for the concrete block structure small ILEC CO.
Pictures I have seen of other ILEC sites in Hawaii closely resemble some GTE sites in the Pacific Northwest (now Ziply), which makes sense with the history of GTE in Hawaii.
Does anyone have some more detailed photos or examples of a telecom site that's survived while everything else around it is burned up?
I'm seeing that 80% of Laihana is burned out, but that also 80% of the fire is now contained. It's like a war zone. Mark.
Scott: Just an FYI that anecdotal reports from social media coming in or stating that residents have been unable to connect to the Wi-Fi hotspots that the local government have been promoting in the Lahaina area. On Tue, Aug 15, 2023, 5:21 PM scott via NANOG <nanog@nanog.org> wrote:
On 8/11/23 4:06 AM, Mark Tinka wrote:
It's like a war zone.
Yes, it definitely looks like that. We have connectivity to some of the edges and have put up hotspots, so folks can go to the hotspot areas and get internet access.
scott
On Tue, Aug 15, 2023, 5:21 PM scott via NANOG <nanog@nanog.org
On 8/11/23 4:06 AM, Mark Tinka wrote: > It's like a war zone.
Yes, it definitely looks like that. We have connectivity to some of the edges and have put up hotspots, so folks can go to the hotspot areas and get internet access.
On 8/16/23 12:39 AM, TJ Trout wrote:
Scott: Just an FYI that anecdotal reports from social media coming in or stating that residents have been unable to connect to the Wi-Fi hotspots that the local government have been promoting in the Lahaina area.
I don't have anything to do with that as I work in the core and we got the node up for west Maui, so I am done. (: But I wonder if those are different wifis. I'd imagine the focus now is plant poles, hang fiber and get the Access part of the network fully up before getting those up, if they're the same ones. scott
I found it interesting that *all*? cellular service on west maui died? Does every carrier single-home via waves served out of the Lahaina CO? Or maybe they aren't allowed to have generators in Maui? Seems like they would have diverse paths to major sites On Tue, Aug 15, 2023 at 6:55 PM scott <surfer@mauigateway.com> wrote:
On Tue, Aug 15, 2023, 5:21 PM scott via NANOG <nanog@nanog.org
On 8/11/23 4:06 AM, Mark Tinka wrote: > It's like a war zone.
Yes, it definitely looks like that. We have connectivity to some of the edges and have put up hotspots, so folks can go to the hotspot areas and get internet access.
On 8/16/23 12:39 AM, TJ Trout wrote:
Scott: Just an FYI that anecdotal reports from social media coming in or stating that residents have been unable to connect to the Wi-Fi hotspots that the local government have been promoting in the Lahaina area.
I don't have anything to do with that as I work in the core and we got the node up for west Maui, so I am done. (: But I wonder if those are different wifis. I'd imagine the focus now is plant poles, hang fiber and get the Access part of the network fully up before getting those up, if they're the same ones.
scott
On 8/16/23 3:58 AM, TJ Trout wrote:
I found it interesting that *all*? cellular service on west maui died? Does every carrier single-home via waves served out of the Lahaina CO? Or maybe they aren't allowed to have generators in Maui? Seems like they would have diverse paths to major sites
Many do mobile backhaul over various providers, including Hawaiian Telcom. We do that over MPLS. The Lahaina CO is an HT property and we maintain the stuff that kept it relatively safe; air handlers, filters, generators, battery banks, etc. All fiber was gone. The fire was intense due to the wind speed. There was a hurricane near the islands. Likely, even the cell towers were melted. I cannot speak to what the cell folks have in place. Last, it's an island and diverse paths are short in number. scott
On Tue, Aug 15, 2023 at 6:55 PM scott <surfer@mauigateway.com <mailto:surfer@mauigateway.com>> wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 15, 2023, 5:21 PM scott via NANOG <nanog@nanog.org <mailto:nanog@nanog.org> > > On 8/11/23 4:06 AM, Mark Tinka wrote: > > It's like a war zone. > > Yes, it definitely looks like that. We have connectivity to some of the > edges and have put up hotspots, so folks can go to the hotspot areas > and > get internet access.
On 8/16/23 12:39 AM, TJ Trout wrote:
> Scott: Just an FYI that anecdotal reports from social media coming in or > stating that residents have been unable to connect to the Wi-Fi hotspots > that the local government have been promoting in the Lahaina area. ----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't have anything to do with that as I work in the core and we got the node up for west Maui, so I am done. (: But I wonder if those are different wifis. I'd imagine the focus now is plant poles, hang fiber and get the Access part of the network fully up before getting those up, if they're the same ones.
scott
On Wed, Aug 16, 2023 at 6:43 PM scott via NANOG <nanog@nanog.org> wrote:
Last, it's an island and diverse paths are short in number.
To put it into perspective: there are exactly TWO roads that can get you from Lahaina back to Kahului and the airport. One of them is a narrow, cliff-hugging single lane road that is more or less paved. Though I am curious about the Paniolo cable landing in Lahaina. Did it survive? HICS and HIFN land in Kihei instead, right? Regards, Bill Herrin -- William Herrin bill@herrin.us https://bill.herrin.us/
I'm familiar with the island, it's it's puzzling that the major 3 cell carriers would accept a single point of failure like that, you would think they had microwave backup at minimum. Maybe it was a generator issue. I'm sure a few cells burned but there are over ten on the west side so they didn't all burn. Feet on the ground are reporting they brought in at least a few COWS (cellular on wheels/portable cell site trucks) On Thu, Aug 17, 2023, 12:53 AM William Herrin <bill@herrin.us> wrote:
On Wed, Aug 16, 2023 at 6:43 PM scott via NANOG <nanog@nanog.org> wrote:
Last, it's an island and diverse paths are short in number.
To put it into perspective: there are exactly TWO roads that can get you from Lahaina back to Kahului and the airport. One of them is a narrow, cliff-hugging single lane road that is more or less paved.
Though I am curious about the Paniolo cable landing in Lahaina. Did it survive? HICS and HIFN land in Kihei instead, right?
Regards, Bill Herrin
-- William Herrin bill@herrin.us https://bill.herrin.us/
On Aug 17, 2023, at 1:55 PM, TJ Trout <tj@pcguys.us> wrote:
I'm familiar with the island, it's it's puzzling that the major 3 cell carriers would accept a single point of failure like that, you would think they had microwave backup at minimum. Maybe it was a generator issue.
It’s common for a lot of cell backhaul to be on poles because it’s seen as cheap and easy to repair, except when you have a lot of failures at once, and I’m guessing replacement poles require a bit more effort to get there like everything else. I’m reminded of the fiber routes in/out of Madrid where they are all (largely) on a single route. There is a diverse route but it’s $$$ and some providers don’t want to pay for it. There’s a number of towns in the US that don’t even have any fiber connectivity at all, the voice/data come in via licensed links. It’s also common that something is missed or gets groomed off a diverse path without your knowledge. Seen this many times. - Jared
I missed some of the below yesterday. "Though I am curious about the Paniolo cable landing in Lahaina. Did it survive" I believe a land section of the Paniolo cable was not burned and I think that's what they used. Perhaps it was actually the undersea part and I just don't have access to that data. One thing I do know is the Paniolo cable is what allowed us to get the MPLS node back to the core so quickly. I feel pretty confident the CLS survived, but I have no actual data on that. "HICS and HIFN land in Kihei instead, right?" Yes, but there was a second fire in the Kula area (a 1.5 hour drive from Lahaina with no traffic) that was headed towards Kihei. I think they stopped it, but it was the same thing. Homes burnt to the ground and a LOT of fiber was burned up in Kula (1500-3500 feet above sea level). "you would think they had microwave backup at minimum." There is not very much microwave here. There're issues with land and microwave tower rights on an island that size in addition to the geography which makes that an expensive alternative. HT has some m/w on the tops of the mountains, but no other companies that I am aware of can get that done. "I'm sure a few cells burned but there are over ten on the west side so they didn't all burn." I am not sure how that works, but many of the cell sites are/were on buildings and such; not on towers. "Feet on the ground are reporting they brought in at least a few COWS (cellular on wheels/portable cell site trucks)" Yes, they did that with satellite back to their core. scott On 8/17/23 5:55 PM, TJ Trout wrote:
I'm familiar with the island, it's it's puzzling that the major 3 cell carriers would accept a single point of failure like that, you would think they had microwave backup at minimum. Maybe it was a generator issue.
I'm sure a few cells burned but there are over ten on the west side so they didn't all burn.
Feet on the ground are reporting they brought in at least a few COWS (cellular on wheels/portable cell site trucks)
On Thu, Aug 17, 2023, 12:53 AM William Herrin <bill@herrin.us <mailto:bill@herrin.us>> wrote:
On Wed, Aug 16, 2023 at 6:43 PM scott via NANOG <nanog@nanog.org <mailto:nanog@nanog.org>> wrote: > Last, it's an island and diverse paths are > short in number.
To put it into perspective: there are exactly TWO roads that can get you from Lahaina back to Kahului and the airport. One of them is a narrow, cliff-hugging single lane road that is more or less paved.
Though I am curious about the Paniolo cable landing in Lahaina. Did it survive? HICS and HIFN land in Kihei instead, right?
Regards, Bill Herrin
-- William Herrin bill@herrin.us <mailto:bill@herrin.us> https://bill.herrin.us/ <https://bill.herrin.us/>
Hi all - I've also asked the Nomad Futurist Foundation for sources for help. Here are a few if you are interested. There will also be a number of initiatives to help with goods/services donations which would be great. Hope these help too: Maui Food Bank: https://mauifoodbank.org/ Maui Humane Society: https://www.mauihumanesociety.org/donate-olx/?formID=mainButton Hawaii Community Foundation: https://www.hawaiicommunityfoundation.org/maui-strong Thank you for all of the interest and support as rebuild efforts get underway, Hawaii will need this industry. -Ilissa On Thu, Aug 17, 2023 at 2:18 PM scott via NANOG <nanog@nanog.org> wrote:
I missed some of the below yesterday.
"Though I am curious about the Paniolo cable landing in Lahaina. Did it survive"
I believe a land section of the Paniolo cable was not burned and I think that's what they used. Perhaps it was actually the undersea part and I just don't have access to that data. One thing I do know is the Paniolo cable is what allowed us to get the MPLS node back to the core so quickly. I feel pretty confident the CLS survived, but I have no actual data on that.
"HICS and HIFN land in Kihei instead, right?"
Yes, but there was a second fire in the Kula area (a 1.5 hour drive from Lahaina with no traffic) that was headed towards Kihei. I think they stopped it, but it was the same thing. Homes burnt to the ground and a LOT of fiber was burned up in Kula (1500-3500 feet above sea level).
"you would think they had microwave backup at minimum."
There is not very much microwave here. There're issues with land and microwave tower rights on an island that size in addition to the geography which makes that an expensive alternative. HT has some m/w on the tops of the mountains, but no other companies that I am aware of can get that done.
"I'm sure a few cells burned but there are over ten on the west side so they didn't all burn."
I am not sure how that works, but many of the cell sites are/were on buildings and such; not on towers.
"Feet on the ground are reporting they brought in at least a few COWS (cellular on wheels/portable cell site trucks)"
Yes, they did that with satellite back to their core.
scott
On 8/17/23 5:55 PM, TJ Trout wrote:
I'm familiar with the island, it's it's puzzling that the major 3 cell carriers would accept a single point of failure like that, you would think they had microwave backup at minimum. Maybe it was a generator issue.
I'm sure a few cells burned but there are over ten on the west side so they didn't all burn.
Feet on the ground are reporting they brought in at least a few COWS (cellular on wheels/portable cell site trucks)
On Thu, Aug 17, 2023, 12:53 AM William Herrin <bill@herrin.us <mailto:bill@herrin.us>> wrote:
On Wed, Aug 16, 2023 at 6:43 PM scott via NANOG <nanog@nanog.org <mailto:nanog@nanog.org>> wrote: > Last, it's an island and diverse paths are > short in number.
To put it into perspective: there are exactly TWO roads that can get you from Lahaina back to Kahului and the airport. One of them is a narrow, cliff-hugging single lane road that is more or less paved.
Though I am curious about the Paniolo cable landing in Lahaina. Did it survive? HICS and HIFN land in Kihei instead, right?
Regards, Bill Herrin
-- William Herrin bill@herrin.us <mailto:bill@herrin.us> https://bill.herrin.us/ <https://bill.herrin.us/>
-- *Ilissa Miller* CEO, iMiller Public Relations Office: (914) 315-6424 Mobile: (917) 743-0931 @iMillerPR | @ilissanyc iMiller Public Relations www.imillerpr.com
I don't want to overwhelm the list, but since there's interest here's something interesting I just now got from the electric company. 400 poles and 300 transformers. Wow! scott Over the past week, I have been with our teams on Maui that have helped safely restore power to 80% of the customers affected. Among other efforts, we have deployed more than 400 Hawaiian Electric crew members and contractors to Maui. We are: Using a mobile substation at Lahainaluna to help restore power to homes, schools and county facilities; Working with county officials to identify priority circuits to bring stores, pharmacies, gas stations, water and wastewater facilities and other key locations online as quickly as possible; Restoring service to hotels and resorts to be used to house displaced residents, enabling them to move out of emergency shelters; Replacing some of the estimated 400 poles, 300 transformers and other equipment damaged by the fires and high winds and conducting extensive repairs in areas that are safe and accessible; and Shipping dozens of vehicles and pieces of specialized equipment from O‘ahu and bringing in additional expert personnel and equipment from the continental U.S.
On 8/17/23 11:26 AM, scott via NANOG wrote:
I don't want to overwhelm the list, but since there's interest here's something interesting I just now got from the electric company. 400 poles and 300 transformers. Wow!
Those of us from California and the west have watched this in abject horror and I myself was completely clueless this was possible. Mike, who lives 10 miles from where the Caldor fire started that burned all the way to Tahoe and grew up going to Paradise to visit my grandparents
On 8/17/23 6:28 PM, Michael Thomas wrote:
On 8/17/23 11:26 AM, scott via NANOG wrote:
I don't want to overwhelm the list, but since there's interest here's something interesting I just now got from the electric company. 400 poles and 300 transformers. Wow!
Those of us from California and the west have watched this in abject horror and I myself was completely clueless this was possible.
Mike, who lives 10 miles from where the Caldor fire started that burned all the way to Tahoe and grew up going to Paradise to visit my grandparents
Me too. I have friends and family over there. Even though I am not (and they were not) affected it has had a big impact on my emotions. Also, fto answer an an earlier email - I found the Paniolo cable we connected to for the Lahaina MPLS node was a land run that was underground, so it didn't get burned. scott
The single road, or two road situation is extremely similar to what is happening right now in some parts of canada, with massive forest fires in the northwest territories, cutting off Yellowknife and rural communities. If the fiber is built along the one road that exists, and that one road gets overwhelmed by Forest fire, game over. On Thu, Aug 17, 2023, 12:51 AM William Herrin <bill@herrin.us> wrote:
On Wed, Aug 16, 2023 at 6:43 PM scott via NANOG <nanog@nanog.org> wrote:
Last, it's an island and diverse paths are short in number.
To put it into perspective: there are exactly TWO roads that can get you from Lahaina back to Kahului and the airport. One of them is a narrow, cliff-hugging single lane road that is more or less paved.
Though I am curious about the Paniolo cable landing in Lahaina. Did it survive? HICS and HIFN land in Kihei instead, right?
Regards, Bill Herrin
-- William Herrin bill@herrin.us https://bill.herrin.us/
----- Original Message -----
From: "scott via NANOG" <nanog@nanog.org>
On 8/11/23 4:06 AM, Mark Tinka wrote:
It's like a war zone.
Yes, it definitely looks like that. We have connectivity to some of the edges and have put up hotspots, so folks can go to the hotspot areas and get internet access.
Well, it sounds like the historical Bell System attitude has transitioned forwards to ... newer transport. Good. Best of luck to you all, out there. Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth Baylink jra@baylink.com Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100 Ashworth & Associates http://www.bcp38.info 2000 Land Rover DII St Petersburg FL USA BCP38: Ask For It By Name! +1 727 647 1274
On 8/16/23 09:32, Jay R. Ashworth wrote:
Well, it sounds like the historical Bell System attitude has transitioned forwards to ... newer transport. Good.
Legacy GTE in this case, but agreed.
Best of luck to you all, out there.
Indeed. -- Jay Hennigan - jay@west.net Network Engineering - CCIE #7880 503 897-8550 - WB6RDV
It's my understanding that the Hawaiian ILEC is now owned by Cincinnati Bell, which is also a unique historical artifact, as it was its own independent corporation/operating entity in the region of Cincinnati during the era of the pre-1984 Bell system. Somewhat like how GTE was independent in other places in the country. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cincinnati_Bell Some of the Hawaii ILEC structures I have seen photos of in other non-fire-affected places and other islands have a resemblance to designs that were built by BCTel, the ILEC in British Columbia, at the time when GTE was a shareholder in BCTel. On Wed, Aug 16, 2023 at 10:50 AM Jay Hennigan <jay@west.net> wrote:
On 8/16/23 09:32, Jay R. Ashworth wrote:
Well, it sounds like the historical Bell System attitude has transitioned forwards to ... newer transport. Good.
Legacy GTE in this case, but agreed.
Best of luck to you all, out there.
Indeed.
-- Jay Hennigan - jay@west.net Network Engineering - CCIE #7880 503 897-8550 - WB6RDV
On 8/17/23 1:08 AM, Eric Kuhnke wrote:
It's my understanding that the Hawaiian ILEC is now owned by Cincinnati Bell, which is also a unique historical artifact, as it was its own independent corporation/operating entity in the region of Cincinnati during the era of the pre-1984 Bell system.
Yes, HT was bought by Cin Bell. CB was then bought by an out of country company and are changing their name to altafiber. scott
Somewhat like how GTE was independent in other places in the country.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cincinnati_Bell <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cincinnati_Bell>
Some of the Hawaii ILEC structures I have seen photos of in other non-fire-affected places and other islands have a resemblance to designs that were built by BCTel, the ILEC in British Columbia, at the time when GTE was a shareholder in BCTel.
On Wed, Aug 16, 2023 at 10:50 AM Jay Hennigan <jay@west.net <mailto:jay@west.net>> wrote:
On 8/16/23 09:32, Jay R. Ashworth wrote:
> Well, it sounds like the historical Bell System attitude has transitioned > forwards to ... newer transport. Good.
Legacy GTE in this case, but agreed.
> Best of luck to you all, out there.
Indeed.
-- Jay Hennigan - jay@west.net <mailto:jay@west.net> Network Engineering - CCIE #7880 503 897-8550 - WB6RDV
According to Eric Kuhnke <eric.kuhnke@gmail.com>:
-=-=-=-=-=-
It's my understanding that the Hawaiian ILEC is now owned by Cincinnati Bell, which is also a unique historical artifact, as it was its own independent corporation/operating entity in the region of Cincinnati during the era of the pre-1984 Bell system.
Not that unique, SNET was also a Bell affiliate in most of Connecticut. Hawaiian Tel has a very painful history. It was independent until 1967, then bought by GTE, then merged into Verizon along with the rest of GTE in 2000, then sold to a hedge fund in 2004 which knew nothing about telephony and ran it into bankruptcy, then an independent public company from 2010 to 2017, when it was bought by Cincinnati Bell, which in turn was bought in 2021 by Australian conglomerate Macquarie. Running phone systems on islands is very expensive. There's only 160,000 people on Maui, about the same as Salinas CA, but separated from the rest of the world by a lot of water. -- Regards, John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly
On 8/17/23 2:03 AM, John Levine wrote:
According to Eric Kuhnke <eric.kuhnke@gmail.com>:
-=-=-=-=-=-
It's my understanding that the Hawaiian ILEC is now owned by Cincinnati Bell, which is also a unique historical artifact, as it was its own independent corporation/operating entity in the region of Cincinnati during the era of the pre-1984 Bell system.
Not that unique, SNET was also a Bell affiliate in most of Connecticut.
Hawaiian Tel has a very painful history. It was independent until 1967, then bought by GTE, then merged into Verizon along with the rest of GTE in 2000, then sold to a hedge fund in 2004 which knew nothing about telephony and ran it into bankruptcy, then an independent public company from 2010 to 2017, when it was bought by Cincinnati Bell, which in turn was bought in 2021 by Australian conglomerate Macquarie.
Yep, that's it. And the hedge fund (The Carlyle Group) thing was a complete disaster. I was here for all that. Fugly is all I can say.
Running phone systems on islands is very expensive. There's only 160,000 people on Maui, about the same as Salinas CA, but separated from the rest of the world by a lot of water.
We have a lot of undersea fiber and it is all connected into one big MPLS network for the internet stuff. There is still SS7 stuff out there, too. I am unfamiliar with that part. scott
I would be willing to travel down to help restore infra; I did this back around Sandy as well. Is there anyone we can contact? On Wed, Aug 16, 2023 at 10:51 PM scott via NANOG <nanog@nanog.org> wrote:
On 8/17/23 2:03 AM, John Levine wrote:
According to Eric Kuhnke <eric.kuhnke@gmail.com>:
-=-=-=-=-=-
It's my understanding that the Hawaiian ILEC is now owned by Cincinnati Bell, which is also a unique historical artifact, as it was its own independent corporation/operating entity in the region of Cincinnati during the era of the pre-1984 Bell system.
Not that unique, SNET was also a Bell affiliate in most of Connecticut.
Hawaiian Tel has a very painful history. It was independent until 1967, then bought by GTE, then merged into Verizon along with the rest of GTE in 2000, then sold to a hedge fund in 2004 which knew nothing about telephony and ran it into bankruptcy, then an independent public company from 2010 to 2017, when it was bought by Cincinnati Bell, which in turn was bought in 2021 by Australian conglomerate Macquarie.
Yep, that's it. And the hedge fund (The Carlyle Group) thing was a complete disaster. I was here for all that. Fugly is all I can say.
Running phone systems on islands is very expensive. There's only 160,000 people on Maui, about the same as Salinas CA, but separated from the rest of the world by a lot of water.
We have a lot of undersea fiber and it is all connected into one big MPLS network for the internet stuff. There is still SS7 stuff out there, too. I am unfamiliar with that part.
scott
-- Sincerely, Jason W Kuehl Cell 920-419-8983 jason.w.kuehl@gmail.com
On 8/17/23 3:14 AM, Jason Kuehl wrote:
I would be willing to travel down to help restore infra; I did this back around Sandy as well. Is there anyone we can contact?
I am not sure who to contact. I don't work with the fiber guys as I am a router guy. I could only tell you to call the main number and work yourself to the fiber guys or look online and see who you can find that way. But they have lot of fiber up at this time. They got guys from other islands over there last week and have been stringing fiber non-stop since then - over the weekend and nights. Lahaina is small square area wise. We already are getting Napili online today, which is north of the area affected. scott
On Wed, Aug 16, 2023 at 10:51 PM scott via NANOG <nanog@nanog.org <mailto:nanog@nanog.org>> wrote:
On 8/17/23 2:03 AM, John Levine wrote: > According to Eric Kuhnke <eric.kuhnke@gmail.com <mailto:eric.kuhnke@gmail.com>>: >> -=-=-=-=-=- >> >> It's my understanding that the Hawaiian ILEC is now owned by Cincinnati >> Bell, which is also a unique historical artifact, as it was its own >> independent corporation/operating entity in the region of Cincinnati during >> the era of the pre-1984 Bell system. > > Not that unique, SNET was also a Bell affiliate in most of Connecticut. > > Hawaiian Tel has a very painful history. It was independent until > 1967, then bought by GTE, then merged into Verizon along with the rest > of GTE in 2000, then sold to a hedge fund in 2004 which knew nothing > about telephony and ran it into bankruptcy, then an independent public > company from 2010 to 2017, when it was bought by Cincinnati Bell, > which in turn was bought in 2021 by Australian conglomerate Macquarie.
Yep, that's it. And the hedge fund (The Carlyle Group) thing was a complete disaster. I was here for all that. Fugly is all I can say.
> Running phone systems on islands is very expensive. There's only > 160,000 people on Maui, about the same as Salinas CA, but separated > from the rest of the world by a lot of water.
We have a lot of undersea fiber and it is all connected into one big MPLS network for the internet stuff. There is still SS7 stuff out there, too. I am unfamiliar with that part.
scott
-- Sincerely,
Jason W Kuehl Cell 920-419-8983 jason.w.kuehl@gmail.com <mailto:jason.w.kuehl@gmail.com>
“Big, undersea, mpls network”. Doesn’t get much cooler than that ;) Aaron
On Aug 16, 2023, at 9:51 PM, scott via NANOG <nanog@nanog.org> wrote:
On 8/17/23 2:03 AM, John Levine wrote: According to Eric Kuhnke <eric.kuhnke@gmail.com>:
-=-=-=-=-=-
It's my understanding that the Hawaiian ILEC is now owned by Cincinnati Bell, which is also a unique historical artifact, as it was its own independent corporation/operating entity in the region of Cincinnati during the era of the pre-1984 Bell system. Not that unique, SNET was also a Bell affiliate in most of Connecticut. Hawaiian Tel has a very painful history. It was independent until 1967, then bought by GTE, then merged into Verizon along with the rest of GTE in 2000, then sold to a hedge fund in 2004 which knew nothing about telephony and ran it into bankruptcy, then an independent public company from 2010 to 2017, when it was bought by Cincinnati Bell, which in turn was bought in 2021 by Australian conglomerate Macquarie.
Yep, that's it. And the hedge fund (The Carlyle Group) thing was a complete disaster. I was here for all that. Fugly is all I can say.
Running phone systems on islands is very expensive. There's only 160,000 people on Maui, about the same as Salinas CA, but separated from the rest of the world by a lot of water.
We have a lot of undersea fiber and it is all connected into one big MPLS network for the internet stuff. There is still SS7 stuff out there, too. I am unfamiliar with that part.
scott
On 8/16/23 4:32 PM, Jay R. Ashworth wrote:
----- Original Message -----
From: "scott via NANOG" <nanog@nanog.org>
On 8/11/23 4:06 AM, Mark Tinka wrote:
It's like a war zone.
Yes, it definitely looks like that. We have connectivity to some of the edges and have put up hotspots, so folks can go to the hotspot areas and get internet access.
Well, it sounds like the historical Bell System attitude has transitioned forwards to ... newer transport. Good.
Yeah, the mindset of keeping it all running whatever we need to do is still strong here. We have been having looong conf calls with many folks on it.
Best of luck to you all, out there.
Thanks. scott
Cheers, -- jra
On 8/11/23 3:17 AM, Eric Kuhnke wrote:
Recently saw an aerial video where an entire neighborhood in Laihana had burned down *except* for the concrete block structure small ILEC CO.
Pictures I have seen of other ILEC sites in Hawaii closely resemble some GTE sites in the Pacific Northwest (now Ziply), which makes sense with the history of GTE in Hawaii.
Does anyone have some more detailed photos or examples of a telecom site that's survived while everything else around it is burned up?
I'm looking to share this with some contacts in BC for rural telecom purposes and disaster preparedness discussions.
Hey, This email is delayed because we have all been busy not only with getting the network up, but also collecting tons of stuff to donate to the folks over there. Many lost everything except the clothes on their back and what little they could carry. That's a Hawaiian Telcom CO in Lahaina. I work (again) for HT these days. We have special air filters and air handlers. The generators came on and kept everything going and air conditioned. Once the poles were put up and the fiber strung we found all the equipment running just fine. In that CO is a lot of stuff, but the main thing for the router guys was a Nokia ESS-7 chassis that has been running since around 2007. (approx) We got connectivity to it from the core yesterday and are getting connectivity to the edges as I type. Here is a photo a tech took. They were the first allowed into the area after electric folks. Notice the smoke everywhere and all the debris on the road. surfer.mauigateway.com/lhna-co.jpg scott
participants (14)
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Aaron1 -
Eric Kuhnke -
Ilissa Miller -
Jared Mauch -
Jason Kuehl -
Jay Hennigan -
Jay R. Ashworth -
John Levine -
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Michael Thomas -
Mike Lyon -
scott -
TJ Trout -
William Herrin