Re: COVID-19 vs. our Networks
The Internet is not a telecommunications service, according to your FCC. If you want predictability, buy WAN circuits, not Internet circuits. If your provider is co-mingling Internet and WAN traffic (i.e. circuits with defined endpoints vs. public Internet or VPN), then you need to talk to them about their prioritization. If you have mission critical applications, put them on mission critical infrastructure, not the public Internet. Oh, that's right - Internet circuits are cheaper than WAN circuits. At 01:14 PM 14/03/2020, Mike Bolitho wrote:
Seems arbitrary.  Lots of networks have lots of Netflix/etc capacity. Who determines what is "mission critical"? Our mission as an ISP is to deliver Internet to our customers. If they want to play online games or watch video, who am I to say that isn't critical to THEIR mission?...  ...The last thing we need are a bunch of kids in quarantine that have NOTHING to do because Mike Bolitho thinks their entertainment isn't part of the "mission" of the Internet.
We already have that. It's called Telecommunications Service Priority and this is the charge:
Telecommunications Service Priority (TSP) is a program that authorizes national security and emergency preparedness (NS/EP) organizations to receive priority treatment for vital voice and data circuits or other telecommunications services.
I work for a hospital, we ran into some issues last week due to congestion that was totally outside of our control that was off of our WAN (Thanks Call Of Duty). Now, the issue we ran into was not mission critical at the time but it was still disruptive. As more and more people are driven home during this time, more and more people will be using bandwidth intensive streaming and online gaming products. If more and more TSP coded entities are running into issues, ISPs, IXPs, and CDNs will be forced to act.
For more information:
https://www.fcc.gov/general/telecommunications-service-priority
 These views are my own and do not reflect the opinions or official stances of my employer etc etc.
- Mike Bolitho
On Sat, Mar 14, 2020 at 9:27 AM Clayton Zekelman <<mailto:clayton@mnsi.net>clayton@mnsi.net> wrote: Seems arbitrary.  Lots of networks have lots of Netflix/etc capacity. Who determines what is "mission critical"? Our mission as an ISP is to deliver Internet to our customers. If they want to play online games or watch video, who am I to say that isn't critical to THEIR mission? The last thing we need are a bunch of kids in quarantine that have NOTHING to do because Mike Bolitho thinks their entertainment isn't part of the "mission" of the Internet. About the only thing that might be useful is something to smooth out the big jumps in utilization on game releases - but even that is something that can be managed by adding capacity. To quote Jay Leno - Crunch All You Want, We'll Make More. At 12:16 PM 14/03/2020, Mike Bolitho wrote:
à The impact of all these bored school kids on the networks due to gaming might cause some issues. I know that if I'm working from home and my videoconferencing slows down because of someones gaming, I'm taking the necessary action (read, change some rules on my firewall).à People are welcome to do whatever they want on
Basically that. It's probably more streaming services that could crowd out what would be considered "mission critical" infrastructure. Maybe the Netflixs and Hulusà of the world will limit 4K streaming or something along those lines. Basically cap resolution to 720p for the time being. - Mike Bolitho On Sat, Mar 14, 2020 at 1:06 AM Hugo Slabbert <<mailto:hugo@slabnet.com>hugo@slabnet.com> wrote: their own networks. I just didn't get the suggestion that online gaming services would shut down. Or were you saying, Mike, that online gaming would crowd out other services and so "shut down" those other services? On Fri., Mar. 13, 2020, 21:42 Owen DeLong <<mailto:owen@delong.com>owen@delong.com> wrote: You donât have kids, do you br> They have the attention span off Koi these days. Theyââ¬ll play most games for about 15 minutes or so before downloading the next one. (At least thatâs been my observation of behavior among mg my GFâs daughter r and her friends). Owen
On Mar 13, 2020, at 20:31 , Darin Steffl <<mailto:darin.steffl@mnwifi.com>darin.steffl@mnwifi.com > wrote: Playing games doesn't take much bandwidth. Downloading games does. So as long as everyone already has their games and there's no updates, playing the game is typically under 100 kbps which is negligible compared to streaming video which takes 1 to 25 mbps.Ã On Fri, Mar 13, 2020, 8:52 PM Sabri Berisha <<mailto:sabri@cluecentral.net>sabri@cluecentral.net> wrote: Hi, I don't know where y'all live, but here in the SF Bay Area, pretty much all public and private schools have closed down. My school district (in Santa Clara County) will be closed until Spring Break. The impact of all these bored school kids on the networks due to gaming might cause some issues. I know that if I'm working from home and my videoconferencing slows down because of someones gaming, I'm taking the necessary action (read, change some rules on my firewall).Ã Thanks, Sabri ----- On Mar 13, 2020, at 4:12 PM, Hugo Slabbert <<mailto:hugo@slabnet.com>hugo@slabnet.com> wrote: I think under circumstances like this, I could definitely see some of the online based games shutting services down.
à How so? Signed, Someone who works for an online gaming company and has heard nothing of this. --à Hugo Slabbertàààà | email, xmpp/jabber: <mailto:hugo@slabnet.com>hugo@slabnet.com pgp key: B178313Eàà | also on Signal On Fri, Mar 13, 2020 at 2:52 PM Mike Bolitho <<mailto:mikebolitho@gmail.com>mikebolitho@gmail.com> wrote: I think under circumstances like this, I could definitely see some of the online based games shutting services down. - Mike Bolitho On Fri, Mar 13, 2020 at 2:41 PM Ahmed Borno <<mailto:amaged@gmail.com>amaged@gmail.com> wrote: Its already happening in Italy, and now that schools are shutting down here as well, its going to get interesting:à <https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-12/housebound-italian-kids-strain-network-with-fortnite-marathon>https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-12/housebound-italian-kids-strain-network-with-fortnite-marathon
The ultimate traffic test is coming, looking forward to hearing about it on this thread. Maybe its a good time to start a communication channel between content providers/gaming companies and ISPs/CDNs. On Fri, Mar 13, 2020 at 11:22 AM Rubens Kuhl <<mailto:rubensk@gmail.com>rubensk@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, Mar 12, 2020 at 3:46 PM <mailto:g@1337.io>g@1337.io <<mailto:lists@1337.io>lists@1337.io> wrote: With talk of there being an involuntary statewide (WA) and then national quarantines (house arrest) for multiple weeks, has anyone put thought into the impacts of this on your networks if/when this comes to fruition? We're already pushing the limits with telecommuters / those that are WFH, but I can only imagine what things will look like with everyone stuck at home for any duration of time.
People will turn to you and every other ISP hoping you keep them online. So besides demand issues, keeping your network up will be important to a whole lot of people.à Rubens à --
Clayton Zekelman Managed Network Systems Inc. (MNSi) 3363 Tecumseh Rd. E Windsor, Ontario N8W 1H4
tel. 519-985-8410 fax. 519-985-8409Â Â Â Â Â Â Â
-- Clayton Zekelman Managed Network Systems Inc. (MNSi) 3363 Tecumseh Rd. E Windsor, Ontario N8W 1H4 tel. 519-985-8410 fax. 519-985-8409
First of all, we use a mixture of layer 2/3 private lines and DIA circuits. You don't know our infrastructure, stop being condescending. It goes against the spirit of this mailing list. Second, yes, the Internet is protected. Both public and private lines. I know this because we have TSP coded circuits and I spent four years at a Tier I ISP servicing TSP coded circuits Third, the trouble we had was a third party service having congestion issues. They are hosted by the same CDN as Call of Duty. The problem was both outside of our control and our third party service's control. The chokepoint was between ISPs/IXPs and the CDN. I've seen this time and time again while working at the aforementioned ISP. Saturated links on ISP/IXP/CDN networks. This is where the TSP code comes in. In this day and age of cloud services, it is financially unfeasible for every company to have a private line to every single cloud provider. That's preposterous to even suggest. - Mike Bolitho On Sat, Mar 14, 2020 at 10:40 AM Clayton Zekelman <clayton@mnsi.net> wrote:
The Internet is not a telecommunications service, according to your FCC. If you want predictability, buy WAN circuits, not Internet circuits. If your provider is co-mingling Internet and WAN traffic (i.e. circuits with defined endpoints vs. public Internet or VPN), then you need to talk to them about their prioritization.
If you have mission critical applications, put them on mission critical infrastructure, not the public Internet.
Oh, that's right - Internet circuits are cheaper than WAN circuits
Clayton Zekelman Managed Network Systems Inc. (MNSi) 3363 Tecumseh Rd. E Windsor, Ontario N8W 1H4 tel. 519-985-8410 fax. 519-985-8409
On Sat, Mar 14, 2020 at 11:01:48AM -0700, Mike Bolitho wrote:
Third, the trouble we had was a third party service having congestion issues.
This is a tiny sample of what's coming. We're all about to be tested in a major way, and lots of latent problems are about to become real, pressing problems. So: 1. Get some rest. Stock up (judiciously, don't hoard) on supplies including medications, fluids, food, etc. 2. Find all the phone chargers, laptop chargers, USB sticks, cables, everything. If you're not already obsessive about keeping things charged, get that way. 3. Make sure your role addresses are up-to-date and working: postmaster@ webmaster@ security@ abuse@ noc@ and whatever else is appropriate. Make sure that eyeballs are watching everything that comes in there and anticipate that some people -- under stress and anxious -- will send things to the wrong place. Same for your phone contacts. And make sure frontline support personnel have the ability and judgment to rapidly escalate, do not allow urgent needs to get lost in some ticketing system. 4. Make sure your WHOIS contacts on networks and domains are up-to-date and working. Same for your phone contacts. 5. Identify any spare resources that you can lend out. Identify any resources that you can guess will be needed. 6. Everyone who can telecommute should be telecommuting right now. If you need hands on-site, and of course lots of people will, keep those people separated from others. Make sure hands-on people know how to sanitize equipment, tools, etc. 7. Find time in the midst of this for self-care. You can't help anybody if you're exhausted. Take a shower, watch dog videos, do whatever you need to in order to stay functional. Here's a resource page that I threw together with a little help from some epidemiologists. It's short, plain HTML so it should load very fast, and of course because it's short it's probably missing things. Send suggestions to me off-list. http://www.firemountain.net/covid19.html ---rsk
Thanks Rich. Good, clear, reasonable steps to have on hand. On Sat., Mar. 14, 2020, 11:50 Rich Kulawiec <rsk@gsp.org> wrote:
On Sat, Mar 14, 2020 at 11:01:48AM -0700, Mike Bolitho wrote:
Third, the trouble we had was a third party service having congestion issues.
This is a tiny sample of what's coming. We're all about to be tested in a major way, and lots of latent problems are about to become real, pressing problems. So:
1. Get some rest. Stock up (judiciously, don't hoard) on supplies including medications, fluids, food, etc.
2. Find all the phone chargers, laptop chargers, USB sticks, cables, everything. If you're not already obsessive about keeping things charged, get that way.
3. Make sure your role addresses are up-to-date and working:
postmaster@ webmaster@ security@ abuse@ noc@
and whatever else is appropriate. Make sure that eyeballs are watching everything that comes in there and anticipate that some people -- under stress and anxious -- will send things to the wrong place.
Same for your phone contacts. And make sure frontline support personnel have the ability and judgment to rapidly escalate, do not allow urgent needs to get lost in some ticketing system.
4. Make sure your WHOIS contacts on networks and domains are up-to-date and working. Same for your phone contacts.
5. Identify any spare resources that you can lend out. Identify any resources that you can guess will be needed.
6. Everyone who can telecommute should be telecommuting right now. If you need hands on-site, and of course lots of people will, keep those people separated from others. Make sure hands-on people know how to sanitize equipment, tools, etc.
7. Find time in the midst of this for self-care. You can't help anybody if you're exhausted. Take a shower, watch dog videos, do whatever you need to in order to stay functional.
Here's a resource page that I threw together with a little help from some epidemiologists. It's short, plain HTML so it should load very fast, and of course because it's short it's probably missing things. Send suggestions to me off-list.
http://www.firemountain.net/covid19.html
---rsk
Le 14/03/2020 à 19:49, Rich Kulawiec a écrit :
On Sat, Mar 14, 2020 at 11:01:48AM -0700, Mike Bolitho wrote:
Third, the trouble we had was a third party service having congestion issues.
This is a tiny sample of what's coming.
YES and it's in waves. It's emergency, but not like in war with shelter, bombs, etc. It's incoming and outgoing waves. They are calculable. Basically what China does now Italy will do soon, and so. USA close borders to incomers now, but will see its outgoers banned soon by others. The number of days between events is known in sources, just compute. It's also about North and South hemispheres probably. We're all about to be tested
in a major way, and lots of latent problems are about to become real, pressing problems. So:
1. Get some rest.
YEs, plan the effort, dont give everything right away, like we are used with imediateness, with clicking buttons on screens and obtain service - a click of a button away. Get rest, plan the rest. Stock up (judiciously, don't hoard) on supplies
including medications, fluids, food, etc.
Hmmm, no. They have time to care that for you.
2. Find all the phone chargers, laptop chargers, USB sticks, cables, everything. If you're not already obsessive about keeping things charged, get that way.
yes.
3. Make sure your role addresses are up-to-date and working:
postmaster@ webmaster@ security@ abuse@ noc@
yes.
and whatever else is appropriate. Make sure that eyeballs are watching everything that comes in there and anticipate that some people -- under stress and anxious -- will send things to the wrong place.
Same for your phone contacts. And make sure frontline support personnel have the ability and judgment to rapidly escalate, do not allow urgent needs to get lost in some ticketing system.
4. Make sure your WHOIS contacts on networks and domains are up-to-date and working. Same for your phone contacts.
yes
5. Identify any spare resources that you can lend out. Identify any resources that you can guess will be needed.
6. Everyone who can telecommute should be telecommuting right now.
yes
If you need hands on-site, and of course lots of people will, keep those people separated from others. Make sure hands-on people know how to sanitize equipment, tools, etc.
7. Find time in the midst of this for self-care.
yes. You can't help
anybody if you're exhausted. Take a shower, watch dog videos, do whatever you need to in order to stay functional.
Here's a resource page that I threw together with a little help from some epidemiologists. It's short, plain HTML so it should load very fast, and of course because it's short it's probably missing things. Send suggestions to me off-list.
find the public data that tells about the ongoing trials of protocols. Alex
---rsk
there is one more thing about this now it is a good time to start writing down daily whether you work at home or not, who do you see, etc. it's always hard to remember what one did 2 weeks ago, who one saw, etc. in two weeks time, if you are still feeling excellent, then you might be really be free of it. if not, it will be useful to come back to what you wrote. (like in TCP three way handshake, first write down) Le 14/03/2020 à 20:27, Alexandre Petrescu a écrit :
Le 14/03/2020 à 19:49, Rich Kulawiec a écrit :
On Sat, Mar 14, 2020 at 11:01:48AM -0700, Mike Bolitho wrote:
Third, the trouble we had was a third party service having congestion issues.
This is a tiny sample of what's coming.
YES and it's in waves. It's emergency, but not like in war with shelter, bombs, etc. It's incoming and outgoing waves. They are calculable. Basically what China does now Italy will do soon, and so. USA close borders to incomers now, but will see its outgoers banned soon by others. The number of days between events is known in sources, just compute.
It's also about North and South hemispheres probably.
We're all about to be tested
in a major way, and lots of latent problems are about to become real, pressing problems. So:
1. Get some rest.
YEs, plan the effort, dont give everything right away, like we are used with imediateness, with clicking buttons on screens and obtain service - a click of a button away.
Get rest, plan the rest.
Stock up (judiciously, don't hoard) on supplies
including medications, fluids, food, etc.
Hmmm, no. They have time to care that for you.
2. Find all the phone chargers, laptop chargers, USB sticks, cables, everything. If you're not already obsessive about keeping things charged, get that way.
yes.
3. Make sure your role addresses are up-to-date and working:
postmaster@ webmaster@ security@ abuse@ noc@
yes.
and whatever else is appropriate. Make sure that eyeballs are watching everything that comes in there and anticipate that some people -- under stress and anxious -- will send things to the wrong place.
Same for your phone contacts. And make sure frontline support personnel have the ability and judgment to rapidly escalate, do not allow urgent needs to get lost in some ticketing system.
4. Make sure your WHOIS contacts on networks and domains are up-to-date and working. Same for your phone contacts.
yes
5. Identify any spare resources that you can lend out. Identify any resources that you can guess will be needed.
6. Everyone who can telecommute should be telecommuting right now.
yes
If you need hands on-site, and of course lots of people will, keep those people separated from others. Make sure hands-on people know how to sanitize equipment, tools, etc.
7. Find time in the midst of this for self-care.
yes.
You can't help
anybody if you're exhausted. Take a shower, watch dog videos, do whatever you need to in order to stay functional.
Here's a resource page that I threw together with a little help from some epidemiologists. It's short, plain HTML so it should load very fast, and of course because it's short it's probably missing things. Send suggestions to me off-list.
find the public data that tells about the ongoing trials of protocols.
Alex
---rsk
On March 14, 2020 at 14:49 rsk@gsp.org (Rich Kulawiec) wrote:
2. Find all the phone chargers, laptop chargers, USB sticks, cables, everything. If you're not already obsessive about keeping things charged, get that way.
You're really expecting power interruptions due to the virus (in the US)? Somewhere else (FB) I saw someone snarking that people are dumb because they're buying out frozen food what are they going to do when there's no power for their freezers?! I just don't see that as a likely scenario here but maybe I'm the one who's deluded. I suppose some regions are more vulnerable than others, there was that crazy fire prevention outage in California a few months ago. If we get to the point that there are serious power outages due to a flu I think we'll have much worse problems than our phones are going dead, there won't be any phone network! Or whatever. P.S. I also got the death threat WARNING! WARNING! WARNING! spam but didn't think it was worth a whole new message so, here, I mentioned it in case people are wondering if it's just them. -- -Barry Shein Software Tool & Die | bzs@TheWorld.com | http://www.TheWorld.com Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: +1 617-STD-WRLD | 800-THE-WRLD The World: Since 1989 | A Public Information Utility | *oo*
On Sat, Mar 14, 2020 at 05:17:01PM -0400, bzs@theworld.com wrote:
On March 14, 2020 at 14:49 rsk@gsp.org (Rich Kulawiec) wrote:
2. Find all the phone chargers, laptop chargers, USB sticks, cables, everything. If you're not already obsessive about keeping things charged, get that way.
You're really expecting power interruptions due to the virus (in the US)?
No. I'm guessing that people may be called upon to pack up their gear and work in a place they didn't expect to be working. Or that they may need to improvise solutions in a hurry with whatever they've got handy. So having a bag full of chargers and cables and adapters and everything else just seems like good/easy/cheap preparation. (I think a lot of us already have such a bag, it's just that entropy sets in and the way it was once packed it probably not the way it's packed today.) I'm not really "expecting" anything other than suboptimal conditions. ---rsk
I suggest the NANOG community needs to actively recognize this risks becoming the largest north american wide test of mass work from home that has happened since I got involved in the public internet back in 1986. It may also drive some permanent changes in traffic patterns as high volume remote work becomes the new normal. There is good news here. The infrastructure has never been better positioned to support this kind of mass event. We can shop from home, work from home, get groceries from home, order drugs, get entertainment, all via IP. The ISP community needs to be ready to respond to the magnitude of what is happening. In Toronto, municipal services are shut down, schools are closed, university classes are cancelled, transit is reduced, Person is a ghost town, mass gatherings are cancelled, multiple senior politicians are self-isolating. Discussions are happening about closing malls. All this happened in the last week. The downtown core was a ghost town on Friday. We have a fraction of the cases in Canada as the US does. I personally know numerous very large companies that have formally activated their business continuity plans and have or are about to send tens of thousands to work from home. Numerous ISPs have waived overage fees <https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/article-rogers-videotron-cut-internet-data-caps-to-help-workers-impacted-by/> in consideration of the situation here. I start formal work from home as of Monday *with no defined timeline for recall as yet*. My current department went from thinking about it, to testing BCP, to sending people home, inside of 1 week. This is real. It is rapidly evolving. Be prepared and realize your networks, if they were not before, are now safety critical. Regards, Eric Carroll
On 15/Mar/20 00:12, Eric M. Carroll wrote:
There is good news here. The infrastructure has never been better positioned to support this kind of mass event. We can shop from home, work from home, get groceries from home, order drugs, get entertainment, all via IP. The ISP community needs to be ready to respond to the magnitude of what is happening.
If the Internet was as large in 2003 when SARS hit as it is now in 2020 under the Coronavirus, I think we'd have seen the same issues back then. Nowadays, information gets around a lot faster and with more fuss and fanfare than before. On average, by the time you see a shared video clip on WhatsApp, you'll be receiving it from 100 other contacts inside of a 30 minutes. As readier as the Internet is today, part of the mega spread of the fallout from the Coronavirus is because information is not only traveling way faster, a lot of it is also not (necessarily) verified or moderated before being shared with is consumers. Mark.
Le 16/03/2020 à 14:58, Mark Tinka a écrit :
On 15/Mar/20 00:12, Eric M. Carroll wrote:
There is good news here. The infrastructure has never been better positioned to support this kind of mass event. We can shop from home, work from home, get groceries from home, order drugs, get entertainment, all via IP. The ISP community needs to be ready to respond to the magnitude of what is happening. If the Internet was as large in 2003 when SARS hit as it is now in 2020 under the Coronavirus, I think we'd have seen the same issues back then.
Nowadays, information gets around a lot faster and with more fuss and fanfare than before. On average, by the time you see a shared video clip on WhatsApp, you'll be receiving it from 100 other contacts inside of a 30 minutes.
As readier as the Internet is today, part of the mega spread of the fallout from the Coronavirus is because information is not only traveling way faster, a lot of it is also not (necessarily) verified or moderated before being shared with is consumers.
There is no other way to do that information filterning now. Nobody has any authority of knowing better than others. MUAs filters yes. (mail user agent) Look at all data you receive, identify patterns, then act. That's all one can do now. There are easily identifiable patterns. Develop trust. Alex
Mark.
As readier as the Internet is today, part of the mega spread of the fallout from the Coronavirus is because information is not only traveling way faster, a lot of it is also not (necessarily) verified or moderated before being shared with is consumers.
There is no other way to do that information filterning now. Nobody has any authority of knowing better than others.
MUAs filters yes. (mail user agent)
Look at all data you receive, identify patterns, then act. That's all one can do now.
There are easily identifiable patterns.
Develop trust.
Most misinformation is being carried nowadays by peer-to-peer messaging (like WhatsApp) and social networks (like Facebook and Instagram), so even if a miracle device appeared and was put in front of all mail systems, it would have very little effect. Rubens
On 16/Mar/20 16:13, Rubens Kuhl wrote:
Most misinformation is being carried nowadays by peer-to-peer messaging (like WhatsApp) and social networks (like Facebook and Instagram), so even if a miracle device appeared and was put in front of all mail systems, it would have very little effect.
As a friend of mine and I always say, "Command & Control is dead & gone". All the power is now with the consumer. "Leaders" can't "tell and bully" anymore; they need to learn how to listen and engage. That's all they can really do. The traditionalists need to get over themselves; they are no longer the smartest people in the room anymore. Everyone is now the smartest guy/gal in the room, whether that's true or not. The Internet has made sure everyone is hyper-connected, and information is everywhere! Mark.
On 16/Mar/20 16:04, Alexandre Petrescu wrote:
There is no other way to do that information filterning now. Nobody has any authority of knowing better than others.
MUAs filters yes. (mail user agent)
Look at all data you receive, identify patterns, then act. That's all one can do now.
There are easily identifiable patterns.
Develop trust.
I'd say "develop brains" :-). A lot of people are only too happy to be led, they want to believe anything that comes out of a leader's mouth, especially if that leader said it on TV, or on Twitter. Worse, a lot of people want to be "the 1st" to show that they knew something before anyone else, so they can come off as "the source of truth". That is why the moment someone receives a fake "official memo" from the Ministry of Education of some country saying that all school lessons have been banned on a Sunday following the Friday the president gave an official statement about the state of the Coronavirus in said country, they can't take 60 seconds to see that the date on that letter is 2 days before the president gave his statement, nor can they reason as to how such a letter could be sent after the president never mentioned a thing about shutting schools down during his official presser, without a copy of it being on the government's official web site or announced by the national news broadcaster. We see folk potentially becoming presidents because they spent more money and made the loudest noise. Nobody has time, anymore, to listen to the issues and make up their own minds. They just want to be told what to think based on who retweets the loudest. People want to believe anything. People want to share everything. That's one of the biggest consequences of the ubiquity of the Internet today, and the Coronavirus has just amplified what has already been happening for a few years now. Mark.
Le 16/03/2020 à 15:22, Mark Tinka a écrit :
On 16/Mar/20 16:04, Alexandre Petrescu wrote:
There is no other way to do that information filterning now. Nobody has any authority of knowing better than others.
MUAs filters yes. (mail user agent)
Look at all data you receive, identify patterns, then act. That's all one can do now.
There are easily identifiable patterns.
Develop trust.
I'd say "develop brains" :-).
A lot of people are only too happy to be led, they want to believe anything that comes out of a leader's mouth, especially if that leader said it on TV, or on Twitter.
Worse, a lot of people want to be "the 1st" to show that they knew something before anyone else, so they can come off as "the source of truth".
I must say I agree with you on that 'be the 1st to know' thing. Some behaviour like that of blogger (no offence, sorry), or of a person looking to create reputation quickly, ie create a safe situation quickly for self, is happening. Whistle blower is one such case too. I myself find myself often in such situation and, humanly, inherently, look some times to improve reputation. I admit that for myself. Some of these whistle blowers also some times act out of conviction, which is laudable. Some law protects them. But also, there are other things. Under these circumnstances, there are many such people - 1st announcers. But too many of them are in private. Some worry their gov't might chain them, others worry it might not really be so, so their reputation is at risk, others worry to talk about their private data to public lists. Some look to reinforce their leadership position, others to go up on the ladder, others look to save, and probably more other reasons. Despite all that, I believe it might be that there might not be enough of them, these "1st to know" announcers. I still think that at this time there are still a majority of people that dont believe this is true, or that it is a conspiracy, or that it wont affect me, or tha tit's just a 'flu' (from Influenza). For my part, I have a hard time to persuade members of my immediate circle of people about the dangerosity of this. It's in steps: they accept some danger but not bigger, accept bigger but not even bigger. Few if any accept to go from 0 to total acceptance of what's happening in 1 day or so. One can see that acceptance time in the time difference between the 2 weeks of inception, to the 3 months of the event up/down in China. Looking now retrospectively, some question the following: if China quickly closed everything in 2 weeks after the first cases, would we still be where we are now? But, as someone adviced on this list, I also look to save my energy. Alex PS: By this I also respond to another topic, to another poster on this email list, that I know from IETF, to share that a cousin of mine just got her long time planned surgery cancelled (reported to a new date do be defined). IT is a condition on which the bad thing can evolve badly, and shes unhappy no surgery now.
That is why the moment someone receives a fake "official memo" from the Ministry of Education of some country saying that all school lessons have been banned on a Sunday following the Friday the president gave an official statement about the state of the Coronavirus in said country, they can't take 60 seconds to see that the date on that letter is 2 days before the president gave his statement, nor can they reason as to how such a letter could be sent after the president never mentioned a thing about shutting schools down during his official presser, without a copy of it being on the government's official web site or announced by the national news broadcaster.
We see folk potentially becoming presidents because they spent more money and made the loudest noise. Nobody has time, anymore, to listen to the issues and make up their own minds. They just want to be told what to think based on who retweets the loudest.
People want to believe anything. People want to share everything. That's one of the biggest consequences of the ubiquity of the Internet today, and the Coronavirus has just amplified what has already been happening for a few years now.
Mark.
On Mar 16, 2020, at 07:04 , Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> wrote:
Le 16/03/2020 à 14:58, Mark Tinka a écrit :
On 15/Mar/20 00:12, Eric M. Carroll wrote:
There is good news here. The infrastructure has never been better positioned to support this kind of mass event. We can shop from home, work from home, get groceries from home, order drugs, get entertainment, all via IP. The ISP community needs to be ready to respond to the magnitude of what is happening. If the Internet was as large in 2003 when SARS hit as it is now in 2020 under the Coronavirus, I think we'd have seen the same issues back then.
Nowadays, information gets around a lot faster and with more fuss and fanfare than before. On average, by the time you see a shared video clip on WhatsApp, you'll be receiving it from 100 other contacts inside of a 30 minutes.
As readier as the Internet is today, part of the mega spread of the fallout from the Coronavirus is because information is not only traveling way faster, a lot of it is also not (necessarily) verified or moderated before being shared with is consumers.
There is no other way to do that information filterning now. Nobody has any authority of knowing better than others.
This simply isn’t true… Listen to qualified medical professionals, especially those who specialize in infectious diseases and epidemiology. The information on the CDC and WHO websites remains the primary source of trustworthy information. It may be incomplete, but if someone is contradicting something there, they’re very likely to be wrong. OTOH, anyone selling “survive COVID” or “cure COVID” etc. is completely untrustworthy and guaranteed to be lying to you in order to sell a product. Despicable, but common place. There’s no authoritative way to get false information off the internet, so we have to combat it as best we can with good information and education. Even in my own household, this is a constant battle as my GF continues to bring home odd superstitious rumors and embellishments from a variety of inaccurate sources and I constantly have to correct her perspective. For up to date local information, check with the local public health authority in your jurisdiction. In the US, that will usually be your county public health agency. In some cases, individual municipalities also have public health departments. At the very least adhere to their orders and recommendations. Owen
Le 16/03/2020 à 20:08, Owen DeLong a écrit :
On Mar 16, 2020, at 07:04 , Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com <mailto:alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>> wrote:
Le 16/03/2020 à 14:58, Mark Tinka a écrit :
On 15/Mar/20 00:12, Eric M. Carroll wrote:
There is good news here. The infrastructure has never been better positioned to support this kind of mass event. We can shop from home, work from home, get groceries from home, order drugs, get entertainment, all via IP. The ISP community needs to be ready to respond to the magnitude of what is happening. If the Internet was as large in 2003 when SARS hit as it is now in 2020 under the Coronavirus, I think we'd have seen the same issues back then.
Nowadays, information gets around a lot faster and with more fuss and fanfare than before. On average, by the time you see a shared video clip on WhatsApp, you'll be receiving it from 100 other contacts inside of a 30 minutes.
As readier as the Internet is today, part of the mega spread of the fallout from the Coronavirus is because information is not only traveling way faster, a lot of it is also not (necessarily) verified or moderated before being shared with is consumers.
There is no other way to do that information filterning now. Nobody has any authority of knowing better than others.
This simply isn’t true…
Listen to qualified medical professionals, especially those who specialize in infectious diseases and epidemiology.
Doctors are many. Some speak urgent: they say stay home. Others say this, and yet others say that.
The information on the CDC and WHO websites remains the primary source of trustworthy information. It may be incomplete, but if someone is contradicting something there, they’re very likely to be wrong.
Stay home.
OTOH, anyone selling “survive COVID” or “cure COVID” etc. is completely untrustworthy and guaranteed to be lying to you in order to sell a product. Despicable, but common place.
Yes.
There’s no authoritative way to get false information off the internet, so we have to combat it as best we can with good information and education. Even in my own household, this is a constant battle as my GF continues to bring home odd superstitious rumors and embellishments from a variety of inaccurate sources and I constantly have to correct her perspective.
For up to date local information, check with the local public health authority in your jurisdiction.
I tell you I did. There is 0 info from official channels telling where precisely are the cases. I had to google the cityname and the virus word. The official information here says number of cases, and names the REgions most affected (large regions). Thats it. Please tell me about your city: do you know the numbers in your city? How did you get the info?
In the US, that will usually be your county public health agency. In some cases, individual municipalities also have public health departments.
Please try it and tell me if it works.
At the very least adhere to their orders and recommendations.
YEs I do. It says this: tomorrow noon all stay indoors, out only for pharmacy, alimentaiton or criticial job. Thats it. They also use other words that I will not type here. Alex
Owen
a tv news report a few hours ago about status in America (USA) says the map is this. on another hand, a close person to me, speaking from Texas, he says 9 cases in his city in Texas. That map does not show Texas, as far as I know America (USA) geography. Now, it might be that some regions might be more important than others; yet, every pereson is equal. Or, it might be that the map builder (a respected person, reporter, TV man) di wrong job or so. Or, it might be Texas does not want to confine. At which point - one wonders. Its the same about UK not want to confine. so, doubcle check always good Le 16/03/2020 à 21:15, Alexandre Petrescu a écrit :
Le 16/03/2020 à 20:08, Owen DeLong a écrit :
On Mar 16, 2020, at 07:04 , Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com <mailto:alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>> wrote:
Le 16/03/2020 à 14:58, Mark Tinka a écrit :
On 15/Mar/20 00:12, Eric M. Carroll wrote:
There is good news here. The infrastructure has never been better positioned to support this kind of mass event. We can shop from home, work from home, get groceries from home, order drugs, get entertainment, all via IP. The ISP community needs to be ready to respond to the magnitude of what is happening. If the Internet was as large in 2003 when SARS hit as it is now in 2020 under the Coronavirus, I think we'd have seen the same issues back then.
Nowadays, information gets around a lot faster and with more fuss and fanfare than before. On average, by the time you see a shared video clip on WhatsApp, you'll be receiving it from 100 other contacts inside of a 30 minutes.
As readier as the Internet is today, part of the mega spread of the fallout from the Coronavirus is because information is not only traveling way faster, a lot of it is also not (necessarily) verified or moderated before being shared with is consumers.
There is no other way to do that information filterning now. Nobody has any authority of knowing better than others.
This simply isn’t true…
Listen to qualified medical professionals, especially those who specialize in infectious diseases and epidemiology.
Doctors are many. Some speak urgent: they say stay home.
Others say this, and yet others say that.
The information on the CDC and WHO websites remains the primary source of trustworthy information. It may be incomplete, but if someone is contradicting something there, they’re very likely to be wrong.
Stay home.
OTOH, anyone selling “survive COVID” or “cure COVID” etc. is completely untrustworthy and guaranteed to be lying to you in order to sell a product. Despicable, but common place.
Yes.
There’s no authoritative way to get false information off the internet, so we have to combat it as best we can with good information and education. Even in my own household, this is a constant battle as my GF continues to bring home odd superstitious rumors and embellishments from a variety of inaccurate sources and I constantly have to correct her perspective.
For up to date local information, check with the local public health authority in your jurisdiction.
I tell you I did. There is 0 info from official channels telling where precisely are the cases. I had to google the cityname and the virus word.
The official information here says number of cases, and names the REgions most affected (large regions). Thats it.
Please tell me about your city: do you know the numbers in your city? How did you get the info?
In the US, that will usually be your county public health agency. In some cases, individual municipalities also have public health departments.
Please try it and tell me if it works.
At the very least adhere to their orders and recommendations.
YEs I do. It says this: tomorrow noon all stay indoors, out only for pharmacy, alimentaiton or criticial job. Thats it.
They also use other words that I will not type here.
Alex
Owen
On Mar 16, 2020, at 13:37 , Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> wrote:
a tv news report a few hours ago about status in America (USA) says the map is this.
That’s like a 2-3 week old map of state in US.
on another hand, a close person to me, speaking from Texas, he says 9 cases in his city in Texas. That map does not show Texas, as far as I know America (USA) geography.
Indeed, Texas is not shown on that map.
Now, it might be that some regions might be more important than others; yet, every pereson is equal.
Or, it might be that the map builder (a respected person, reporter, TV man) di wrong job or so.
It mostly just looks to be old data.
Or, it might be Texas does not want to confine. At which point - one wonders. Its the same about UK not want to confine.
US isn’t basing its actions on maps issued by CNEWS, I promise. Likely, neither is UK.
so, doubcle check always good
Sure… News is not reliable. I go direct to public health web sites and encourage others to do same. Not always completely up to date, but apparently better than some news. Owen
<acopojjhlmhmahcn.jpg>
Le 16/03/2020 à 21:15, Alexandre Petrescu a écrit :
Le 16/03/2020 à 20:08, Owen DeLong a écrit :
On Mar 16, 2020, at 07:04 , Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com <mailto:alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>> wrote:
Le 16/03/2020 à 14:58, Mark Tinka a écrit :
On 15/Mar/20 00:12, Eric M. Carroll wrote:
There is good news here. The infrastructure has never been better positioned to support this kind of mass event. We can shop from home, work from home, get groceries from home, order drugs, get entertainment, all via IP. The ISP community needs to be ready to respond to the magnitude of what is happening. If the Internet was as large in 2003 when SARS hit as it is now in 2020 under the Coronavirus, I think we'd have seen the same issues back then.
Nowadays, information gets around a lot faster and with more fuss and fanfare than before. On average, by the time you see a shared video clip on WhatsApp, you'll be receiving it from 100 other contacts inside of a 30 minutes.
As readier as the Internet is today, part of the mega spread of the fallout from the Coronavirus is because information is not only traveling way faster, a lot of it is also not (necessarily) verified or moderated before being shared with is consumers.
There is no other way to do that information filterning now. Nobody has any authority of knowing better than others.
This simply isn’t true…
Listen to qualified medical professionals, especially those who specialize in infectious diseases and epidemiology.
Doctors are many. Some speak urgent: they say stay home.
Others say this, and yet others say that.
The information on the CDC and WHO websites remains the primary source of trustworthy information. It may be incomplete, but if someone is contradicting something there, they’re very likely to be wrong.
Stay home.
OTOH, anyone selling “survive COVID” or “cure COVID” etc. is completely untrustworthy and guaranteed to be lying to you in order to sell a product. Despicable, but common place.
Yes.
There’s no authoritative way to get false information off the internet, so we have to combat it as best we can with good information and education. Even in my own household, this is a constant battle as my GF continues to bring home odd superstitious rumors and embellishments from a variety of inaccurate sources and I constantly have to correct her perspective.
For up to date local information, check with the local public health authority in your jurisdiction.
I tell you I did. There is 0 info from official channels telling where precisely are the cases. I had to google the cityname and the virus word.
The official information here says number of cases, and names the REgions most affected (large regions). Thats it.
Please tell me about your city: do you know the numbers in your city? How did you get the info?
In the US, that will usually be your county public health agency. In some cases, individual municipalities also have public health departments.
Please try it and tell me if it works.
At the very least adhere to their orders and recommendations.
YEs I do. It says this: tomorrow noon all stay indoors, out only for pharmacy, alimentaiton or criticial job. Thats it.
They also use other words that I will not type here.
Alex
Owen
https://hgis.uw.edu/virus Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 16, 2020, at 4:17 PM, Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> wrote:
Le 16/03/2020 à 20:08, Owen DeLong a écrit :
On Mar 16, 2020, at 07:04 , Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> wrote:
Le 16/03/2020 à 14:58, Mark Tinka a écrit :
On 15/Mar/20 00:12, Eric M. Carroll wrote:
There is good news here. The infrastructure has never been better positioned to support this kind of mass event. We can shop from home, work from home, get groceries from home, order drugs, get entertainment, all via IP. The ISP community needs to be ready to respond to the magnitude of what is happening. If the Internet was as large in 2003 when SARS hit as it is now in 2020 under the Coronavirus, I think we'd have seen the same issues back then.
Nowadays, information gets around a lot faster and with more fuss and fanfare than before. On average, by the time you see a shared video clip on WhatsApp, you'll be receiving it from 100 other contacts inside of a 30 minutes.
As readier as the Internet is today, part of the mega spread of the fallout from the Coronavirus is because information is not only traveling way faster, a lot of it is also not (necessarily) verified or moderated before being shared with is consumers.
There is no other way to do that information filterning now. Nobody has any authority of knowing better than others.
This simply isn’t true…
Listen to qualified medical professionals, especially those who specialize in infectious diseases and epidemiology.
Doctors are many. Some speak urgent: they say stay home.
Others say this, and yet others say that.
The information on the CDC and WHO websites remains the primary source of trustworthy information. It may be incomplete, but if someone is contradicting something there, they’re very likely to be wrong.
Stay home.
OTOH, anyone selling “survive COVID” or “cure COVID” etc. is completely untrustworthy and guaranteed to be lying to you in order to sell a product. Despicable, but common place.
Yes.
There’s no authoritative way to get false information off the internet, so we have to combat it as best we can with good information and education. Even in my own household, this is a constant battle as my GF continues to bring home odd superstitious rumors and embellishments from a variety of inaccurate sources and I constantly have to correct her perspective.
For up to date local information, check with the local public health authority in your jurisdiction.
I tell you I did. There is 0 info from official channels telling where precisely are the cases. I had to google the cityname and the virus word.
The official information here says number of cases, and names the REgions most affected (large regions). Thats it.
Please tell me about your city: do you know the numbers in your city? How did you get the info?
In the US, that will usually be your county public health agency. In some cases, individual municipalities also have public health departments.
Please try it and tell me if it works.
At the very least adhere to their orders and recommendations.
YEs I do. It says this: tomorrow noon all stay indoors, out only for pharmacy, alimentaiton or criticial job. Thats it.
They also use other words that I will not type here.
Alex
Owen
Le 16/03/2020 à 21:42, sronan@ronan-online.com a écrit :
It does not say by City. I cant find my city, department not even region. I know all these URLs with maps, I can paste them if y ou wish. I watch them every day. Alex
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 16, 2020, at 4:17 PM, Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> wrote:
Le 16/03/2020 à 20:08, Owen DeLong a écrit :
On Mar 16, 2020, at 07:04 , Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com <mailto:alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>> wrote:
Le 16/03/2020 à 14:58, Mark Tinka a écrit :
On 15/Mar/20 00:12, Eric M. Carroll wrote:
There is good news here. The infrastructure has never been better positioned to support this kind of mass event. We can shop from home, work from home, get groceries from home, order drugs, get entertainment, all via IP. The ISP community needs to be ready to respond to the magnitude of what is happening. If the Internet was as large in 2003 when SARS hit as it is now in 2020 under the Coronavirus, I think we'd have seen the same issues back then.
Nowadays, information gets around a lot faster and with more fuss and fanfare than before. On average, by the time you see a shared video clip on WhatsApp, you'll be receiving it from 100 other contacts inside of a 30 minutes.
As readier as the Internet is today, part of the mega spread of the fallout from the Coronavirus is because information is not only traveling way faster, a lot of it is also not (necessarily) verified or moderated before being shared with is consumers.
There is no other way to do that information filterning now. Nobody has any authority of knowing better than others.
This simply isn’t true…
Listen to qualified medical professionals, especially those who specialize in infectious diseases and epidemiology.
Doctors are many. Some speak urgent: they say stay home.
Others say this, and yet others say that.
The information on the CDC and WHO websites remains the primary source of trustworthy information. It may be incomplete, but if someone is contradicting something there, they’re very likely to be wrong.
Stay home.
OTOH, anyone selling “survive COVID” or “cure COVID” etc. is completely untrustworthy and guaranteed to be lying to you in order to sell a product. Despicable, but common place.
Yes.
There’s no authoritative way to get false information off the internet, so we have to combat it as best we can with good information and education. Even in my own household, this is a constant battle as my GF continues to bring home odd superstitious rumors and embellishments from a variety of inaccurate sources and I constantly have to correct her perspective.
For up to date local information, check with the local public health authority in your jurisdiction.
I tell you I did. There is 0 info from official channels telling where precisely are the cases. I had to google the cityname and the virus word.
The official information here says number of cases, and names the REgions most affected (large regions). Thats it.
Please tell me about your city: do you know the numbers in your city? How did you get the info?
In the US, that will usually be your county public health agency. In some cases, individual municipalities also have public health departments.
Please try it and tell me if it works.
At the very least adhere to their orders and recommendations.
YEs I do. It says this: tomorrow noon all stay indoors, out only for pharmacy, alimentaiton or criticial job. Thats it.
They also use other words that I will not type here.
Alex
Owen
It goes down to county level. On Mon, Mar 16, 2020, 4:48 PM Alexandre Petrescu < alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> wrote:
Le 16/03/2020 à 21:42, sronan@ronan-online.com a écrit :
It does not say by City. I cant find my city, department not even region.
I know all these URLs with maps, I can paste them if y ou wish.
I watch them every day.
Alex
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 16, 2020, at 4:17 PM, Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> wrote:
Le 16/03/2020 à 20:08, Owen DeLong a écrit :
On Mar 16, 2020, at 07:04 , Alexandre Petrescu < alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> wrote:
Le 16/03/2020 à 14:58, Mark Tinka a écrit :
On 15/Mar/20 00:12, Eric M. Carroll wrote:
There is good news here. The infrastructure has never been better positioned to support this kind of mass event. We can shop from home, work from home, get groceries from home, order drugs, get entertainment, all via IP. The ISP community needs to be ready to respond to the magnitude of what is happening.
If the Internet was as large in 2003 when SARS hit as it is now in 2020 under the Coronavirus, I think we'd have seen the same issues back then.
Nowadays, information gets around a lot faster and with more fuss and fanfare than before. On average, by the time you see a shared video clip on WhatsApp, you'll be receiving it from 100 other contacts inside of a 30 minutes.
As readier as the Internet is today, part of the mega spread of the fallout from the Coronavirus is because information is not only traveling way faster, a lot of it is also not (necessarily) verified or moderated before being shared with is consumers.
There is no other way to do that information filterning now. Nobody has any authority of knowing better than others.
This simply isn’t true…
Listen to qualified medical professionals, especially those who specialize in infectious diseases and epidemiology.
Doctors are many. Some speak urgent: they say stay home.
Others say this, and yet others say that.
The information on the CDC and WHO websites remains the primary source of trustworthy information. It may be incomplete, but if someone is contradicting something there, they’re very likely to be wrong.
Stay home.
OTOH, anyone selling “survive COVID” or “cure COVID” etc. is completely untrustworthy and guaranteed to be lying to you in order to sell a product. Despicable, but common place.
Yes.
There’s no authoritative way to get false information off the internet, so we have to combat it as best we can with good information and education. Even in my own household, this is a constant battle as my GF continues to bring home odd superstitious rumors and embellishments from a variety of inaccurate sources and I constantly have to correct her perspective.
For up to date local information, check with the local public health authority in your jurisdiction.
I tell you I did. There is 0 info from official channels telling where precisely are the cases. I had to google the cityname and the virus word.
The official information here says number of cases, and names the REgions most affected (large regions). Thats it.
Please tell me about your city: do you know the numbers in your city? How did you get the info?
In the US, that will usually be your county public health agency. In some cases, individual municipalities also have public health departments.
Please try it and tell me if it works.
At the very least adhere to their orders and recommendations.
YEs I do. It says this: tomorrow noon all stay indoors, out only for pharmacy, alimentaiton or criticial job. Thats it.
They also use other words that I will not type here.
Alex
Owen
On Mar 16, 2020, at 13:15 , Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> wrote:
Le 16/03/2020 à 20:08, Owen DeLong a écrit :
On Mar 16, 2020, at 07:04 , Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com <mailto:alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>> wrote:
Le 16/03/2020 à 14:58, Mark Tinka a écrit :
On 15/Mar/20 00:12, Eric M. Carroll wrote:
There is good news here. The infrastructure has never been better positioned to support this kind of mass event. We can shop from home, work from home, get groceries from home, order drugs, get entertainment, all via IP. The ISP community needs to be ready to respond to the magnitude of what is happening. If the Internet was as large in 2003 when SARS hit as it is now in 2020 under the Coronavirus, I think we'd have seen the same issues back then.
Nowadays, information gets around a lot faster and with more fuss and fanfare than before. On average, by the time you see a shared video clip on WhatsApp, you'll be receiving it from 100 other contacts inside of a 30 minutes.
As readier as the Internet is today, part of the mega spread of the fallout from the Coronavirus is because information is not only traveling way faster, a lot of it is also not (necessarily) verified or moderated before being shared with is consumers.
There is no other way to do that information filterning now. Nobody has any authority of knowing better than others.
This simply isn’t true…
Listen to qualified medical professionals, especially those who specialize in infectious diseases and epidemiology.
Doctors are many. Some speak urgent: they say stay home.
Others say this, and yet others say that.
Doctors are many. Epidemiologists are fewer. Virtually all of the epidemiologists and specialists in infectious disease are saying the same thing… Urget — stay home — flatten the curve.
The information on the CDC and WHO websites remains the primary source of trustworthy information. It may be incomplete, but if someone is contradicting something there, they’re very likely to be wrong.
Stay home.
Yes.
OTOH, anyone selling “survive COVID” or “cure COVID” etc. is completely untrustworthy and guaranteed to be lying to you in order to sell a product. Despicable, but common place.
Yes.
There’s no authoritative way to get false information off the internet, so we have to combat it as best we can with good information and education. Even in my own household, this is a constant battle as my GF continues to bring home odd superstitious rumors and embellishments from a variety of inaccurate sources and I constantly have to correct her perspective.
For up to date local information, check with the local public health authority in your jurisdiction.
I tell you I did. There is 0 info from official channels telling where precisely are the cases. I had to google the cityname and the virus word.
The official information here says number of cases, and names the REgions most affected (large regions). Thats it.
Please tell me about your city: do you know the numbers in your city? How did you get the info?
What do you care where the already diagnosed cases are… But the time a location has already diagnosed cases that can be reported, there are likely 100s if not 1000s of other cases going unnoticed in the area. Stay home now, regardless of where you are.
In the US, that will usually be your county public health agency. In some cases, individual municipalities also have public health departments.
Please try it and tell me if it works.
Has worked very well for me in Santa Clara County so far.
At the very least adhere to their orders and recommendations.
YEs I do. It says this: tomorrow noon all stay indoors, out only for pharmacy, alimentaiton or criticial job. Thats it.
What more do you want? That’s the best advice that exists today.
They also use other words that I will not type here.
lol Owen
Le 16/03/2020 à 21:58, Owen DeLong a écrit :
On Mar 16, 2020, at 13:15 , Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com <mailto:alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>> wrote:
Le 16/03/2020 à 20:08, Owen DeLong a écrit :
On Mar 16, 2020, at 07:04 , Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com <mailto:alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>> wrote:
Le 16/03/2020 à 14:58, Mark Tinka a écrit :
On 15/Mar/20 00:12, Eric M. Carroll wrote:
There is good news here. The infrastructure has never been better positioned to support this kind of mass event. We can shop from home, work from home, get groceries from home, order drugs, get entertainment, all via IP. The ISP community needs to be ready to respond to the magnitude of what is happening. If the Internet was as large in 2003 when SARS hit as it is now in 2020 under the Coronavirus, I think we'd have seen the same issues back then.
Nowadays, information gets around a lot faster and with more fuss and fanfare than before. On average, by the time you see a shared video clip on WhatsApp, you'll be receiving it from 100 other contacts inside of a 30 minutes.
As readier as the Internet is today, part of the mega spread of the fallout from the Coronavirus is because information is not only traveling way faster, a lot of it is also not (necessarily) verified or moderated before being shared with is consumers.
There is no other way to do that information filterning now. Nobody has any authority of knowing better than others.
This simply isn’t true…
Listen to qualified medical professionals, especially those who specialize in infectious diseases and epidemiology.
Doctors are many. Some speak urgent: they say stay home.
Others say this, and yet others say that.
Doctors are many. Epidemiologists are fewer. Virtually all of the epidemiologists and specialists in infectious disease are saying the same thing… Urget — stay home — flatten the curve.
The information on the CDC and WHO websites remains the primary source of trustworthy information. It may be incomplete, but if someone is contradicting something there, they’re very likely to be wrong.
Stay home.
Yes.
OTOH, anyone selling “survive COVID” or “cure COVID” etc. is completely untrustworthy and guaranteed to be lying to you in order to sell a product. Despicable, but common place.
Yes.
There’s no authoritative way to get false information off the internet, so we have to combat it as best we can with good information and education. Even in my own household, this is a constant battle as my GF continues to bring home odd superstitious rumors and embellishments from a variety of inaccurate sources and I constantly have to correct her perspective.
For up to date local information, check with the local public health authority in your jurisdiction.
I tell you I did. There is 0 info from official channels telling where precisely are the cases. I had to google the cityname and the virus word.
The official information here says number of cases, and names the REgions most affected (large regions). Thats it.
Please tell me about your city: do you know the numbers in your city? How did you get the info?
What do you care where the already diagnosed cases are… But the time a location has already diagnosed cases that can be reported, there are likely 100s if not 1000s of other cases going unnoticed in the area. Stay home now, regardless of where you are.
In the US, that will usually be your county public health agency. In some cases, individual municipalities also have public health departments.
Please try it and tell me if it works.
Has worked very well for me in Santa Clara County so far.
How is Santa Clara County informing their citizens? Some website or some SMS (short text message on cellular)? My city sent me two paper letters Saturday, but no numbers about cases. I had to go to pharmacy and ask the pharmacist what she heard; she heard from somebdoy else about 2 cases in nearby village. That was 3 days ago. Thats how I get informed.
At the very least adhere to their orders and recommendations.
YEs I do. It says this: tomorrow noon all stay indoors, out only for pharmacy, alimentaiton or criticial job. Thats it.
What more do you want? That’s the best advice that exists today.
They also use other words that I will not type here.
lol
ok lol if you wish :-) Alex
Owen
[SNIP]
Has worked very well for me in Santa Clara County so far.
How is Santa Clara County informing their citizens? Some website or some SMS (short text message on cellular)?
My city sent me two paper letters Saturday, but no numbers about cases. I had to go to pharmacy and ask the pharmacist what she heard; she heard from somebdoy else about 2 cases in nearby village. That was 3 days ago.
Thats how I get informed.
https://www.sccgov.org/sites/phd/Pages/phd.aspx https://www.sccgov.org/sites/phd/DiseaseInformation/novel-coronavirus/Pages/...
At the very least adhere to their orders and recommendations.
YEs I do. It says this: tomorrow noon all stay indoors, out only for pharmacy, alimentaiton or criticial job. Thats it.
What more do you want? That’s the best advice that exists today.
They also use other words that I will not type here.
lol
ok lol if you wish :-)
Just at the use of “other words that I will not type here.” from a public health agency. Owen
Le 16/03/2020 à 22:19, Owen DeLong a écrit :
[SNIP]
Has worked very well for me in Santa Clara County so far.
How is Santa Clara County informing their citizens? Some website or some SMS (short text message on cellular)?
My city sent me two paper letters Saturday, but no numbers about cases. I had to go to pharmacy and ask the pharmacist what she heard; she heard from somebdoy else about 2 cases in nearby village. That was 3 days ago.
Thats how I get informed.
https://www.sccgov.org/sites/phd/Pages/phd.aspx
https://www.sccgov.org/sites/phd/DiseaseInformation/novel-coronavirus/Pages/...
Thanks. It says clearly number of cases 138 as of March 14th, we are16th. I hope they'll update it soon. There's no history data. One cant understand the speed of evolution. But it could be found by comparison. One could find another equivalent of a County in another country where there were 138 cases at point x, and then tell how that evolved. For my part, I can only say that we say 'Comté' for County. Maybe in other country one can find things. But its' great for people living in Santa Clara County to at least know somehow their numbers. I really hope they keep updating it and dont stop it at some point because impossible to track. It also seems people have restricted movement there, just as here (France). For my part, I just got an SMS on my 2G phone with a 2 line black-and-white screen. It does display, it works. It is the first time I received such an SMS. It is in that class of '1st time' we talked about earlier :-) But I consider these things to be bad things, they make me sad. Alex
At the very least adhere to their orders and recommendations.
YEs I do. It says this: tomorrow noon all stay indoors, out only for pharmacy, alimentaiton or criticial job. Thats it.
What more do you want? That’s the best advice that exists today.
They also use other words that I will not type here.
lol
ok lol if you wish :-)
Just at the use of “other words that I will not type here.” from a public health agency.
Owen
Le 16/03/2020 à 22:55, Alexandre Petrescu a écrit :
Le 16/03/2020 à 22:19, Owen DeLong a écrit :
[SNIP]
Has worked very well for me in Santa Clara County so far.
How is Santa Clara County informing their citizens? Some website or some SMS (short text message on cellular)?
My city sent me two paper letters Saturday, but no numbers about cases. I had to go to pharmacy and ask the pharmacist what she heard; she heard from somebdoy else about 2 cases in nearby village. That was 3 days ago.
Thats how I get informed.
https://www.sccgov.org/sites/phd/Pages/phd.aspx
https://www.sccgov.org/sites/phd/DiseaseInformation/novel-coronavirus/Pages/...
Thanks. It says clearly number of cases 138 as of March 14th, we are16th. I hope they'll update it soon.
I just looked at it, it increased to 15th, we are now 17th of March It means they give data since 2 days ago. Why?? It means one should multiply by 2 or so to know what's happening today. I hope they keep updating it. (this is from my experience from watching the China data publicly available on China CDC, in particular the ' new cases'). They update it daily (not from two days ago). On that site we see the today's data, not the data from two days ago; that data says the evolution is constant - flat right now since a few days; it's low but constant, not growing, not going down) (also I would like to know whether people in China after 2 months of confinement are now allowed to get out or not?) Alex
There's no history data.
One cant understand the speed of evolution. But it could be found by comparison. One could find another equivalent of a County in another country where there were 138 cases at point x, and then tell how that evolved. For my part, I can only say that we say 'Comté' for County. Maybe in other country one can find things.
But its' great for people living in Santa Clara County to at least know somehow their numbers. I really hope they keep updating it and dont stop it at some point because impossible to track.
It also seems people have restricted movement there, just as here (France).
For my part, I just got an SMS on my 2G phone with a 2 line black-and-white screen. It does display, it works. It is the first time I received such an SMS. It is in that class of '1st time' we talked about earlier :-)
But I consider these things to be bad things, they make me sad.
Alex
At the very least adhere to their orders and recommendations.
YEs I do. It says this: tomorrow noon all stay indoors, out only for pharmacy, alimentaiton or criticial job. Thats it.
What more do you want? That’s the best advice that exists today.
They also use other words that I will not type here.
lol
ok lol if you wish :-)
Just at the use of “other words that I will not type here.” from a public health agency.
Owen
On Mar 16, 2020, at 3:15 PM, Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> wrote:
Please tell me about your city: do you know the numbers in your city? How did you get the info?
Austin’s health department has a web page with the current confirmed infection count, as well as a bunch of recommendations for various groups, in multiple languages. http://www.austintexas.gov/COVID19 Almost all the tech companies here have told everyone to work from home. We’re seeing lower utilization on our office connections due to split-horizon VPN policies. —Chris
Le 16/03/2020 à 23:18, Chris Boyd a écrit :
On Mar 16, 2020, at 3:15 PM, Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> wrote:
Please tell me about your city: do you know the numbers in your city? How did you get the info? Austin’s health department has a web page with the current confirmed infection count, as well as a bunch of recommendations for various groups, in multiple languages.
http://www.austintexas.gov/COVID19
Almost all the tech companies here have told everyone to work from home. We’re seeing lower utilization on our office connections due to split-horizon VPN policies.
Thank you very much. Ah how far we are from that way of giving info. Please, when you say 'various groups' - what do you mean more precisely? Is it like age groups, or minority nationality groups, or skin color or what? In France there was talk some time about this being mostly for elderly but recentl one hears Doctors/MEdicals saying this is any age group. But we dont see any number. I think it is forbidden to see. Or do you mean groups like: COVID-19 group, Pediatric Flu group, Vaping group? When on that page they say Phase 1, 2... 5. In France we have Stade 1, 2, 3 and no more. At some point they hesitated a lot between 2 and 3, there was some darkness. Now it's 3 and that's it. Thank you, Alex
—Chris
On 16/Mar/20 21:08, Owen DeLong wrote:
This simply isn’t true…
Listen to qualified medical professionals, especially those who specialize in infectious diseases and epidemiology.
The information on the CDC and WHO websites remains the primary source of trustworthy information. It may be incomplete, but if someone is contradicting something there, they’re very likely to be wrong.
OTOH, anyone selling “survive COVID” or “cure COVID” etc. is completely untrustworthy and guaranteed to be lying to you in order to sell a product. Despicable, but common place.
There’s no authoritative way to get false information off the internet, so we have to combat it as best we can with good information and education. Even in my own household, this is a constant battle as my GF continues to bring home odd superstitious rumors and embellishments from a variety of inaccurate sources and I constantly have to correct her perspective.
For up to date local information, check with the local public health authority in your jurisdiction. In the US, that will usually be your county public health agency. In some cases, individual municipalities also have public health departments.
It's the price we pay for hyper-connectedness (not trying to coin a phrase, hehe). Everybody (especially the kids) lives on their device 99% of the time. If you're not on their device, you are not relevant to them. When was the last time you bought a newspaper? How many times do your kids watch the news, either on TV or their device? But they are all over WhatsApp, Instagram, Twitter, SnapChat, WeChat, et al. And even if they have the "News" app on their phone, they probably have never opened it. If they opened it, they didn't find value in it. On average, the we (and the kids) will give your app two tries; if we don't like it, you're out - which explains why we all have 3,000 apps on our phones, but only use 2 or 3 of them most consistently. Whoever wants to get professional and verified information out (to the kids who live on their devices) needs to find a way to do so in a manner we find relevant, otherwise we'll simply keep trading mis-information for whatever reason we feel gives us value. Mark.
On 16/Mar/20 21:08, Owen DeLong wrote:
This simply isn’t true…
Listen to qualified medical professionals, especially those who specialize in infectious diseases and epidemiology.
YEs listen to them. This morning they say: everyone can get it, there is no age or pre-conditio. That''s it. They dont know, and worse they dont say they dont know. I am an engineer, I am not medical professional, my question is: is there a device to detect the virus with the crown in the air and light up a led? (we do have such devices for VOC, for CO2, PM2, PM10 pollution, and many other things in the air; but about virus with a rcown?) Alex
The information on the CDC and WHO websites remains the primary source of trustworthy information. It may be incomplete, but if someone is contradicting something there, they’re very likely to be wrong.
OTOH, anyone selling “survive COVID” or “cure COVID” etc. is completely untrustworthy and guaranteed to be lying to you in order to sell a product. Despicable, but common place.
There’s no authoritative way to get false information off the internet, so we have to combat it as best we can with good information and education. Even in my own household, this is a constant battle as my GF continues to bring home odd superstitious rumors and embellishments from a variety of inaccurate sources and I constantly have to correct her perspective.
For up to date local information, check with the local public health authority in your jurisdiction. In the US, that will usually be your county public health agency. In some cases, individual municipalities also have public health departments.
It's the price we pay for hyper-connectedness (not trying to coin a phrase, hehe).
Everybody (especially the kids) lives on their device 99% of the time. If you're not on their device, you are not relevant to them.
When was the last time you bought a newspaper? How many times do your kids watch the news, either on TV or their device? But they are all over WhatsApp, Instagram, Twitter, SnapChat, WeChat, et al. And even if they have the "News" app on their phone, they probably have never opened it. If they opened it, they didn't find value in it.
On average, the we (and the kids) will give your app two tries; if we don't like it, you're out - which explains why we all have 3,000 apps on our phones, but only use 2 or 3 of them most consistently.
Whoever wants to get professional and verified information out (to the kids who live on their devices) needs to find a way to do so in a manner we find relevant, otherwise we'll simply keep trading mis-information for whatever reason we feel gives us value.
Mark.
On Mar 17, 2020, at 02:41 , Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> wrote:
On 16/Mar/20 21:08, Owen DeLong wrote:
This simply isn’t true…
Listen to qualified medical professionals, especially those who specialize in infectious diseases and epidemiology.
YEs listen to them.
This morning they say: everyone can get it, there is no age or pre-conditio.
They’ve always said “everyone can get it, there’s no age or pre-condition”. The age and pre-existing condition thing comes into play in defining the probability that you will get a severe case of it. That advice hasn’t changed. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nCoV/index.html If You Are at Higher Risk alert icon Who is at higher risk? Early information out of China, where COVID-19 first started, shows that some people are at higher risk of getting very sick from this illness. This includes: Older adults People who have serious chronic medical conditions like: Heart disease Diabetes Lung disease
That''s it. They dont know, and worse they dont say they dont know.
Actually, they do say they don’t know (about the things they don’t know). For example: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prepare/transmission.html?CDC_AA_r... COVID-19 is a new disease and we are still learning how it spreads, the severity of illness it causes, and to what extent it may spread in the United States.
I am an engineer, I am not medical professional, my question is: is there a device to detect the virus with the crown in the air and light up a led?
No… No such device exists for Corona Virus at this time. Such a device is not easily developed.
(we do have such devices for VOC, for CO2, PM2, PM10 pollution, and many other things in the air; but about virus with a rcown?)
Detecting a virus in the air is much more complicated than detecting VOC, CO2, PM2.5 (presumably what you meant by PM2), or PM10. PM2.5 and PM10 are a simple size test. CO2 is a molecule that is easy to detect through a simple electrochemical process. VOC are a class of hydrocarbons that all share certain chemical properties which are easily detected through a simple electrochemical process. It should also be noted that such devices even for the chemicals they can detect require a certain concentration of that chemical. On the other hand, a single airborne virion can be enough to cause a widespread epidemic. If that single virion is “lucky” enough to find a compatible host cell and get the cell to start replicating it, then you can quickly get lots more copies of that virion which then seek out additional host cells and additional hosts to make even more, and so on. Viruses are not. Viruses are very tiny intracellular parasites where very subtle chemical differences cause massively different effects on humans. They consist of an RNA or DNA genome surrounded by a protective virus-coded protein coat. More information here: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK8174/ Currently, the best we can do is a test to detect coronavirus infection in a person after they are infected and symptomatic. So for now, stay indoors with your family and if you’ve got a sick sense of humor like I do, play one or more of the Pandemic board games (if you happen to own them). Owen
Alex
The information on the CDC and WHO websites remains the primary source of trustworthy information. It may be incomplete, but if someone is contradicting something there, they’re very likely to be wrong.
OTOH, anyone selling “survive COVID” or “cure COVID” etc. is completely untrustworthy and guaranteed to be lying to you in order to sell a product. Despicable, but common place.
There’s no authoritative way to get false information off the internet, so we have to combat it as best we can with good information and education. Even in my own household, this is a constant battle as my GF continues to bring home odd superstitious rumors and embellishments from a variety of inaccurate sources and I constantly have to correct her perspective.
For up to date local information, check with the local public health authority in your jurisdiction. In the US, that will usually be your county public health agency. In some cases, individual municipalities also have public health departments.
It's the price we pay for hyper-connectedness (not trying to coin a phrase, hehe).
Everybody (especially the kids) lives on their device 99% of the time. If you're not on their device, you are not relevant to them.
When was the last time you bought a newspaper? How many times do your kids watch the news, either on TV or their device? But they are all over WhatsApp, Instagram, Twitter, SnapChat, WeChat, et al. And even if they have the "News" app on their phone, they probably have never opened it. If they opened it, they didn't find value in it.
On average, the we (and the kids) will give your app two tries; if we don't like it, you're out - which explains why we all have 3,000 apps on our phones, but only use 2 or 3 of them most consistently.
Whoever wants to get professional and verified information out (to the kids who live on their devices) needs to find a way to do so in a manner we find relevant, otherwise we'll simply keep trading mis-information for whatever reason we feel gives us value.
Mark.
Le 17/03/2020 à 19:26, Owen DeLong a écrit :
On Mar 17, 2020, at 02:41 , Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com <mailto:alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>> wrote:
On 16/Mar/20 21:08, Owen DeLong wrote:
This simply isn’t true…
Listen to qualified medical professionals, especially those who specialize in infectious diseases and epidemiology.
YEs listen to them.
This morning they say: everyone can get it, there is no age or pre-conditio.
They’ve always said “everyone can get it, there’s no age or pre-condition”.
The age and pre-existing condition thing comes into play in defining the probability that you will get a severe case of it. That advice hasn’t changed.
Owen, we differ. That advice changed. I am not an immunologist, not a doctor of medicine, not medical. I am not an official channel of information. But that advice changed here: anyone can get it, anyone can get under respiratory device because of it. -------------- Also, The good thing I heard today is China agency of press, saying they might have treatment, some positive sign, not fully positive, just some positive. Alex -----------
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nCoV/index.html
If You Are at Higher Risk
alert icon Who is at higher risk? Early information out of China, where COVID-19 first started, shows that some people are at higher risk of getting very sick from this illness. This includes:
* Older adults * People who have serious chronic medical conditions like: o Heart disease o Diabetes
* o Lung disease
Alex
That''s it. They dont know, and worse they dont say they dont know.
Actually, they do say they don’t know (about the things they don’t know). For example:
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prepare/transmission.html?CDC_AA_r...
COVID-19 is a new disease and we are still learning how it spreads, the severity of illness it causes, and to what extent it may spread in the United States.
I am an engineer, I am not medical professional, my question is: is there a device to detect the virus with the crown in the air and light up a led?
No… No such device exists for Corona Virus at this time. Such a device is not easily developed.
(we do have such devices for VOC, for CO2, PM2, PM10 pollution, and many other things in the air; but about virus with a rcown?)
Detecting a virus in the air is much more complicated than detecting VOC, CO2, PM2.5 (presumably what you meant by PM2), or PM10.
PM2.5 and PM10 are a simple size test. CO2 is a molecule that is easy to detect through a simple electrochemical process. VOC are a class of hydrocarbons that all share certain chemical properties which are easily detected through a simple electrochemical process.
It should also be noted that such devices even for the chemicals they can detect require a certain concentration of that chemical.
On the other hand, a single airborne virion can be enough to cause a widespread epidemic. If that single virion is “lucky” enough to find a compatible host cell and get the cell to start replicating it, then you can quickly get lots more copies of that virion which then seek out additional host cells and additional hosts to make even more, and so on.
Viruses are not. Viruses are very tiny intracellular parasites where very subtle chemical differences cause massively different effects on humans.
They consist of an RNA or DNA genome surrounded by a protective virus-coded protein coat. More information here: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK8174/
Currently, the best we can do is a test to detect coronavirus infection in a person after they are infected and symptomatic.
So for now, stay indoors with your family and if you’ve got a sick sense of humor like I do, play one or more of the Pandemic board games (if you happen to own them).
Owen
Alex
The information on the CDC and WHO websites remains the primary source of trustworthy information. It may be incomplete, but if someone is contradicting something there, they’re very likely to be wrong.
OTOH, anyone selling “survive COVID” or “cure COVID” etc. is completely untrustworthy and guaranteed to be lying to you in order to sell a product. Despicable, but common place.
There’s no authoritative way to get false information off the internet, so we have to combat it as best we can with good information and education. Even in my own household, this is a constant battle as my GF continues to bring home odd superstitious rumors and embellishments from a variety of inaccurate sources and I constantly have to correct her perspective.
For up to date local information, check with the local public health authority in your jurisdiction. In the US, that will usually be your county public health agency. In some cases, individual municipalities also have public health departments.
It's the price we pay for hyper-connectedness (not trying to coin a phrase, hehe).
Everybody (especially the kids) lives on their device 99% of the time. If you're not on their device, you are not relevant to them.
When was the last time you bought a newspaper? How many times do your kids watch the news, either on TV or their device? But they are all over WhatsApp, Instagram, Twitter, SnapChat, WeChat, et al. And even if they have the "News" app on their phone, they probably have never opened it. If they opened it, they didn't find value in it.
On average, the we (and the kids) will give your app two tries; if we don't like it, you're out - which explains why we all have 3,000 apps on our phones, but only use 2 or 3 of them most consistently.
Whoever wants to get professional and verified information out (to the kids who live on their devices) needs to find a way to do so in a manner we find relevant, otherwise we'll simply keep trading mis-information for whatever reason we feel gives us value.
Mark.
On Tuesday, 17 March, 2020 03:31, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka@seacom.mu> wrote:
On 16/Mar/20 21:08, Owen DeLong wrote:
For up to date local information, check with the local public health authority in your jurisdiction. In the US, that will usually be your county public health agency. In some cases, individual municipalities also have public health departments.
It's the price we pay for hyper-connectedness (not trying to coin a phrase, hehe).
Everybody (especially the kids) lives on their device 99% of the time. If you're not on their device, you are not relevant to them.
If by "device" you mean "computer", then you are correct.
When was the last time you bought a newspaper?
Never in 57 years.
How many times do your kids watch the news, either on TV or their device?
Never because I don't have any. But I don't either. Babbling idiots don't do anything for me. And before you ask, I get "important news" directly. If the building next door falls over, I notice. Otherwise I don't think there *IS* such a thing as *important news*, or I can only think of a couple of "important news" that have happened in my entire lifetime on one hand. In no case was a babbling idiot or propaganda purveyor of any particular use.
But they are all over WhatsApp, Instagram, Twitter, SnapChat, WeChat, et al.
Never used any of those. They are just hangouts for yet more babbling idiots. Some of them are even named appropriately -- like Twitter -- which as I understand it is the place where all the twits congregate.
And even if they have the "News" app on their phone, they probably have never opened it. If they opened it, they didn't find value in it.
Correct. No value there. Just more babbling idiots.
On average, the we (and the kids) will give your app two tries; if we don't like it, you're out - which explains why we all have 3,000 apps on our phones, but only use 2 or 3 of them most consistently.
I have an e-mail app on my phone that is connected to my (not someone else's) e-mail server that handles e-mail, contacts, and calendaring in a distributed fashion that is the same on every "device" I own. If a device will not work with my e-mail server, does not function as I need it to function, or is not safe and secure to my requirements, I do not buy that device (that means that the list of devices that I refuse to buy and will not permit in the same room as me is VERY VERY VERY long). Most of the other rubbish has been banished because it is nothing more than yet more piles of babbling idiots.
Whoever wants to get professional and verified information out (to the kids who live on their devices) needs to find a way to do so in a manner we find relevant, otherwise we'll simply keep trading mis-information for whatever reason we feel gives us value.
Send e-mail. Or provide an e-mail list. I will not fiddle faddle with going to websites chock full of malicious websites nor will I let any Tom Dickhead send their malicious crap to me. By the time the malicious crap infestation is filtered out, there is nothing left. Then again I am an old fart. -- The fact that there's a Highway to Hell but only a Stairway to Heaven says a lot about anticipated traffic volume.
Le 17/03/2020 à 18:43, Keith Medcalf a écrit :
On Tuesday, 17 March, 2020 03:31, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka@seacom.mu> wrote:
For up to date local information, check with the local public health authority in your jurisdiction. In the US, that will usually be your county public health agency. In some cases, individual municipalities also have public health departments. It's the price we pay for hyper-connectedness (not trying to coin a
On 16/Mar/20 21:08, Owen DeLong wrote: phrase, hehe). Everybody (especially the kids) lives on their device 99% of the time. If you're not on their device, you are not relevant to them. If by "device" you mean "computer", then you are correct.
When was the last time you bought a newspaper? Never in 57 years.
I buy newspaper every Saturday and every Tuesday since some time now. In addition to local news and The Economist, I include NYTimes International edition because thats the only USA thing in my very small local news stand in small city. Different places in the world have different options for USA newspapers . It might be that yesterday (a Tuesday) was the last time I could get that. I hope not. Alex
How many times do your kids watch the news, either on TV or their device? Never because I don't have any. But I don't either. Babbling idiots don't do anything for me.
And before you ask, I get "important news" directly. If the building next door falls over, I notice. Otherwise I don't think there *IS* such a thing as *important news*, or I can only think of a couple of "important news" that have happened in my entire lifetime on one hand. In no case was a babbling idiot or propaganda purveyor of any particular use.
But they are all over WhatsApp, Instagram, Twitter, SnapChat, WeChat, et al. Never used any of those. They are just hangouts for yet more babbling idiots. Some of them are even named appropriately -- like Twitter -- which as I understand it is the place where all the twits congregate.
And even if they have the "News" app on their phone, they probably have never opened it. If they opened it, they didn't find value in it. Correct. No value there. Just more babbling idiots.
On average, the we (and the kids) will give your app two tries; if we don't like it, you're out - which explains why we all have 3,000 apps on our phones, but only use 2 or 3 of them most consistently. I have an e-mail app on my phone that is connected to my (not someone else's) e-mail server that handles e-mail, contacts, and calendaring in a distributed fashion that is the same on every "device" I own. If a device will not work with my e-mail server, does not function as I need it to function, or is not safe and secure to my requirements, I do not buy that device (that means that the list of devices that I refuse to buy and will not permit in the same room as me is VERY VERY VERY long). Most of the other rubbish has been banished because it is nothing more than yet more piles of babbling idiots.
Whoever wants to get professional and verified information out (to the kids who live on their devices) needs to find a way to do so in a manner we find relevant, otherwise we'll simply keep trading mis-information for whatever reason we feel gives us value. Send e-mail. Or provide an e-mail list. I will not fiddle faddle with going to websites chock full of malicious websites nor will I let any Tom Dickhead send their malicious crap to me. By the time the malicious crap infestation is filtered out, there is nothing left.
Then again I am an old fart.
On 17/Mar/20 19:56, Alexandre Petrescu wrote:
I buy newspaper every Saturday and every Tuesday since some time now. In addition to local news and The Economist, I include NYTimes International edition because thats the only USA thing in my very small local news stand in small city. Different places in the world have different options for USA newspapers .
Good for you. For the rest of us who'd rather trade memes about whether a president is telling the truth or not, with each tweet, we put a newspaper, somewhere, out of business. For better or worse, can't blame the Twitter :-\... Mark.
On Mar 17, 2020, at 10:43 , Keith Medcalf <kmedcalf@dessus.com> wrote:
On Tuesday, 17 March, 2020 03:31, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka@seacom.mu> wrote:
On 16/Mar/20 21:08, Owen DeLong wrote:
For up to date local information, check with the local public health authority in your jurisdiction. In the US, that will usually be your county public health agency. In some cases, individual municipalities also have public health departments.
It's the price we pay for hyper-connectedness (not trying to coin a phrase, hehe).
Everybody (especially the kids) lives on their device 99% of the time. If you're not on their device, you are not relevant to them.
If by "device" you mean "computer", then you are correct.
I think “device” is correct because it encompasses computer, smart phone, tablet, e-reader, whatever else with a screen, some form of input device(s), and network connectivity. Owen
On Tue, 17 Mar 2020 11:43:45 -0600, "Keith Medcalf" said:
And before you ask, I get "important news" directly.
I'm glad to hear you're someplace on the planet where covid-19 doesn't count as important news. Hopefully the news will arrive to you directly before the virus does.
On 17/Mar/20 19:43, Keith Medcalf wrote:
If by "device" you mean "computer", then you are correct.
"A computer? What's that?" said the kids :-).
Never in 57 years.
You caught it early :-).
Never because I don't have any. But I don't either. Babbling idiots don't do anything for me.
And before you ask, I get "important news" directly. If the building next door falls over, I notice. Otherwise I don't think there *IS* such a thing as *important news*, or I can only think of a couple of "important news" that have happened in my entire lifetime on one hand. In no case was a babbling idiot or propaganda purveyor of any particular use.
Even if you're a generation or two behind, you're not that far off from how the kids treat acquisition of information in 2020 :-).
Never used any of those. They are just hangouts for yet more babbling idiots. Some of them are even named appropriately -- like Twitter -- which as I understand it is the place where all the twits congregate.
And it's what's driving all this madness. Sadly, if we want to keep eating, we have no choice but to follow it and engage with the kids.
Correct. No value there. Just more babbling idiots.
Again, just what the kids feel. Are you sure you're 57 :-)?
I have an e-mail app on my phone that is connected to my (not someone else's) e-mail server that handles e-mail, contacts, and calendaring in a distributed fashion that is the same on every "device" I own. If a device will not work with my e-mail server, does not function as I need it to function, or is not safe and secure to my requirements, I do not buy that device (that means that the list of devices that I refuse to buy and will not permit in the same room as me is VERY VERY VERY long). Most of the other rubbish has been banished because it is nothing more than yet more piles of babbling idiots.
In that way, you're on your own. Most kids aren't into e-mail; perhaps only because they need one to install and use Instagram :-).
Send e-mail. Or provide an e-mail list. I will not fiddle faddle with going to websites chock full of malicious websites nor will I let any Tom Dickhead send their malicious crap to me. By the time the malicious crap infestation is filtered out, there is nothing left.
Then again I am an old fart.
You may very well be, but your perception of value (although in the alternate universe) mirrors how the kids treat the networks we build for them today. They don't care about your products. They just want to achieve their value. Telco's (and ISP's) are very product-based organizations. "Here's a list of products, they each cost that, tell me which one you want", said the Head of Sales. But all the kids want to do is share a bunch of champagne-popping videos on Instagram, force a bank manager to return wrongly-billed fees via Twitter, and show the world how badly a police chase ended on WhatsApp. They don't care whose network they use to share what gives them "value", and the first chance they get, they will switch away from your sacred 5G to some random wi-fi hot spot. What's even wilder is that as consumers of these apps ourselves, we emulate a value-based need rather than one based on products. But somehow, as service providers and businesses, we do not seem to know how to offer value in lieu of product. It fascinates me. Mark.
On 2020-03-16 15:04, Alexandre Petrescu wrote:
There is no other way to do that information filterning now. Nobody has any authority of knowing better than others.
There is a good word for information filtering. It is called 'censorship'. Times like now are perfect opportunity to limit the remains of our freedom. Please think twice before you complain for lack of information filtering. Because the government will surely make you happy. -- Grzegorz Janoszka
Le 17/03/2020 à 13:26, Grzegorz Janoszka a écrit :
On 2020-03-16 15:04, Alexandre Petrescu wrote:
There is no other way to do that information filterning now. Nobody has any authority of knowing better than others.
There is a good word for information filtering. It is called 'censorship'.
Times like now are perfect opportunity to limit the remains of our freedom.
Please think twice before you complain for lack of information filtering. Because the government will surely make you happy.
Excuse me, misunderstood. If I complain something, it is the following: there is not enough information from Authority to people. In some places, especially where I live, there is no precise information about number of cases to particular cities, the cases profile, age profile, etc. I suspect it might because they are overwhelmed, or because they dont want to scare others. Two differennt things. I dont know. If I want something, it is the folowing: all channels of comm must be open and info must flow. There is much noise, but it is easy for end user to filter. MUA filtering is such a case. We need more information, not less. We need trust. The threat analysis is different than before. We need security, but other kinds of security. Short easy to remember passwords are ok; what is not ok is to hold information that is important. Just let it flow and we'll see. What is not ok it to shut people because apparently they distribute two times same thing. That holding should not happen; there is no problem if info is distributed two times. Channels should be open info should flow. There are not enough open source projects for gene analysis (nextstrain.org), not enough open source projects for respiratory devices, not enough open source projects for air detection of virus devices (if a such thing can exist). There are not enough tests, not enough masks, not enough many things. There are too many alternatives of 'secure communications': WhatsApp, Signal, Telegram. It is fragmentation. Too much choice, too few people in each group. They claim one is more secure than the other, but secure against whom? Do you think there might be a human attacker that resists virus and who can attack some email account? If such a thing existed then we would know how s/he did to resist to virus in virst place. There are too many Certificate Authorities that are not trusting each other. We need trust, and we need to develop our brains as someone seemed to say here. Alex
Le 14/03/2020 à 22:17, bzs@theworld.com a écrit :
On March 14, 2020 at 14:49 rsk@gsp.org (Rich Kulawiec) wrote:
2. Find all the phone chargers, laptop chargers, USB sticks, cables, everything. If you're not already obsessive about keeping things charged, get that way.
You're really expecting power interruptions due to the virus (in the US)?
FOr my part no. I dont remember having seen news about China power lines down during the event. It's like a wave, not like a shock. People have time to gracefully shut down or turn up things if ever there are problems in some grid. But it's always good to keep things charged up. (there are also the unknown dimensions but it's not possible to talk, one can imagine anything, including the best things) Alex
Somewhere else (FB) I saw someone snarking that people are dumb because they're buying out frozen food what are they going to do when there's no power for their freezers?!
I just don't see that as a likely scenario here but maybe I'm the one who's deluded.
I suppose some regions are more vulnerable than others, there was that crazy fire prevention outage in California a few months ago.
If we get to the point that there are serious power outages due to a flu I think we'll have much worse problems than our phones are going dead, there won't be any phone network! Or whatever.
P.S. I also got the death threat WARNING! WARNING! WARNING! spam but didn't think it was worth a whole new message so, here, I mentioned it in case people are wondering if it's just them.
If it is "critical" you need a dedicated circuit. If it is "meh, who gives a shit", then you can go though the Internet. The root of the issue is that some idiot did a bad Risk Assessment. Hope it got fired or killed so it won't do this again in the future. Hope you also learned something as well. Freedom of the Press belongs to He Who Owns the Press. If you are using someone else's presses (particularly without directly paying and contracting with that party for the use of their presses), you will live or die according to the whim of the owner of the Press, and there is SFA you can do about that. That is how the world has worked for billions of years. You would think people would understand that by now. -- The fact that there's a Highway to Hell but only a Stairway to Heaven says a lot about anticipated traffic volume.
-----Original Message----- From: NANOG <nanog-bounces@nanog.org> On Behalf Of Mike Bolitho Sent: Saturday, 14 March, 2020 12:02 To: Clayton Zekelman <clayton@mnsi.net> Cc: nanog <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Re: COVID-19 vs. our Networks
First of all, we use a mixture of layer 2/3 private lines and DIA circuits. You don't know our infrastructure, stop being condescending. It goes against the spirit of this mailing list.
Second, yes, the Internet is protected. Both public and private lines. I know this because we have TSP coded circuits and I spent four years at a Tier I ISP servicing TSP coded circuits
Third, the trouble we had was a third party service having congestion issues. They are hosted by the same CDN as Call of Duty. The problem was both outside of our control and our third party service's control. The chokepoint was between ISPs/IXPs and the CDN. I've seen this time and time again while working at the aforementioned ISP. Saturated links on ISP/IXP/CDN networks. This is where the TSP code comes in. In this day and age of cloud services, it is financially unfeasible for every company to have a private line to every single cloud provider. That's preposterous to even suggest.
- Mike Bolitho
On Sat, Mar 14, 2020 at 10:40 AM Clayton Zekelman <clayton@mnsi.net <mailto:clayton@mnsi.net> > wrote:
The Internet is not a telecommunications service, according to your FCC. If you want predictability, buy WAN circuits, not Internet circuits. If your provider is co-mingling Internet and WAN traffic (i.e. circuits with defined endpoints vs. public Internet or VPN), then you need to talk to them about their prioritization.
If you have mission critical applications, put them on mission critical infrastructure, not the public Internet.
Oh, that's right - Internet circuits are cheaper than WAN circuits
Clayton Zekelman Managed Network Systems Inc. (MNSi) 3363 Tecumseh Rd. E Windsor, Ontario N8W 1H4
tel. 519-985-8410 fax. 519-985-8409
On 15/Mar/20 16:59, Keith Medcalf wrote:
If it is "critical" you need a dedicated circuit. If it is "meh, who gives a shit", then you can go though the Internet.
The root of the issue is that some idiot did a bad Risk Assessment. Hope it got fired or killed so it won't do this again in the future.
Hope you also learned something as well. Freedom of the Press belongs to He Who Owns the Press. If you are using someone else's presses (particularly without directly paying and contracting with that party for the use of their presses), you will live or die according to the whim of the owner of the Press, and there is SFA you can do about that. That is how the world has worked for billions of years. You would think people would understand that by now.
The Internet has become its own enemy. The time I realized it gives people more mental than practical hope in the possibility of anything is when a pre-sales engineer once asked me if we could deliver a circuit to a customer without using a CPE, because that would increase their acquisition costs. RFC's 1149, 2549 and 6214 came to memory. This was 2012. The Internet has become so ubiquitous and inspired significant (almost unreasonable) possibilities that it is just about preposterous to convince those that need to sign invoices that "Ummh, you get what you pay for is as relevant in 2020 as it was in 1980". Then again, you can buy an SDN or an SD-WAN or an IoT, to back up your Big Data over the 5G connection you gathered it, and all will be well. Mark.
On Mar 15, 2020, at 08:13 , Mark Tinka <mark.tinka@seacom.mu> wrote:
On 15/Mar/20 16:59, Keith Medcalf wrote:
If it is "critical" you need a dedicated circuit. If it is "meh, who gives a shit", then you can go though the Internet.
The root of the issue is that some idiot did a bad Risk Assessment. Hope it got fired or killed so it won't do this again in the future.
Hope you also learned something as well. Freedom of the Press belongs to He Who Owns the Press. If you are using someone else's presses (particularly without directly paying and contracting with that party for the use of their presses), you will live or die according to the whim of the owner of the Press, and there is SFA you can do about that. That is how the world has worked for billions of years. You would think people would understand that by now.
The Internet has become its own enemy.
The time I realized it gives people more mental than practical hope in the possibility of anything is when a pre-sales engineer once asked me if we could deliver a circuit to a customer without using a CPE, because that would increase their acquisition costs. RFC's 1149, 2549 and 6214 came to memory. This was 2012.
The Internet has become so ubiquitous and inspired significant (almost unreasonable) possibilities that it is just about preposterous to convince those that need to sign invoices that "Ummh, you get what you pay for is as relevant in 2020 as it was in 1980".
Then again, you can buy an SDN or an SD-WAN or an IoT, to back up your Big Data over the 5G connection you gathered it, and all will be well.
Mark.
I can top that. I was at a Data Center Real Estate conference some years back when virtualization was all the rage. Admittedly, a lot of the people present (including this guy) were real-estate types, not technical, “Eventually, we’ll even be able to virtualize the machines and the network and we won’t need all these datacenters and the amount of power required will be much less.” Kid you not… He literally thought we could virtualize away all of the physical infrastructure. Owen
On 15/Mar/20 20:11, Owen DeLong wrote:
I can top that. I was at a Data Center Real Estate conference some years back when virtualization was all the rage.
Admittedly, a lot of the people present (including this guy) were real-estate types, not technical,
“Eventually, we’ll even be able to virtualize the machines and the network and we won’t need all these datacenters and the amount of power required will be much less.”
Kid you not… He literally thought we could virtualize away all of the physical infrastructure.
Hehehe - that's not entirely unbelievable. Although it gave me a good knee-tap :-). #WhenTheInternetMakesYouThinkYouCanFly Mark.
participants (16)
-
Alexandre Petrescu -
bzs＠theworld.com -
Chris Boyd -
Clayton Zekelman -
Eric M. Carroll -
Grzegorz Janoszka -
Hugo Slabbert -
Keith Medcalf -
Mark Tinka -
Mike Bolitho -
Owen DeLong -
Rich Kulawiec -
Rubens Kuhl -
Shane Ronan -
sronan＠ronan-online.com -
Valdis Klētnieks