Devices with only USB console port - Need a Console Server Solution
We have one of these nice new and fancy Cisco ASR920-24SZ, just realized it doesn't have an RJ45 Console port only USB. When we deploy devices at our pop we wire the console port to a terminal\console server, well that doesn't work for a usb console device. So what is everyone doing for out of band management via the console when it's a usb only device? Is there something I am missing? Is there a console server for USB? Does cisco make an USB to RJ45 Jack adapter? ________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or previous e-mail messages attached to it may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the information contained in or attached to this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this transmission in error please notify the sender immediately by replying to this e-mail. You must destroy the original transmission and its attachments without reading or saving in any manner. Thank you.
hi erik On 12/07/15 at 10:15pm, Erik Sundberg wrote:
We have one of these nice new and fancy Cisco ASR920-24SZ, just realized it doesn't have an RJ45 Console port only USB. When we deploy devices at our pop we wire the console port to a terminal\console server, well that doesn't work for a usb console device. .. Does cisco make an USB to RJ45 Jack adapter?
cisco bought linksys long long ago whom, along with dozens of others, make USB-ethernet gigE dongle magic pixie dust alvin # DDoS-Mitigator.net
Looks like what you want is the A920-CONS-KIT-S part. Description on it is "ASR 920 Serial Console Cabling Kit" This is a $0 item when ordered with the ASR920s. The other option is the A900-CONS-KIT-U which is the USB-USB console kit. http://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/td/docs/routers/asr920/hardware/installation/gu... Shows the adapter which I'm assuming is what's included in the kit, they mention needing the RJ-45 to DB9 cable (normal Cisco console cable) in addition to this ASR9XX specific adapter. Should be able to plug your normal terminal server cables into the adapter cable listed above. Hope this is helpful. Jeremy "TheBrez" Bresley brez@brezworks.com On 12/7/2015 4:15 PM, Erik Sundberg wrote:
We have one of these nice new and fancy Cisco ASR920-24SZ, just realized it doesn't have an RJ45 Console port only USB. When we deploy devices at our pop we wire the console port to a terminal\console server, well that doesn't work for a usb console device.
So what is everyone doing for out of band management via the console when it's a usb only device? Is there something I am missing? Is there a console server for USB? Does cisco make an USB to RJ45 Jack adapter?
________________________________
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On Mon, 2015-12-07 at 22:15 +0000, Erik Sundberg wrote:
We have one of these nice new and fancy Cisco ASR920-24SZ, just realized it doesn't have an RJ45 Console port only USB. When we deploy devices at our pop we wire the console port to a terminal\console server, well that doesn't work for a usb console device.
So what is everyone doing for out of band management via the console when it's a usb only device? Is there something I am missing? Is there a console server for USB? Does cisco make an USB to RJ45 Jack adapter?
This seems to have the info you need. Looks like that's a USB serial port, so when you plug into it, your laptop grows a new serial port that can be used to communicate with the device: http://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/td/docs/routers/asr920/hardware/installation/gu... According to that there is a USB-to-RJ45 adapter available, but not supplied with the device. Regards, K. -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Karl Auer (kauer@biplane.com.au) http://www.biplane.com.au/kauer http://twitter.com/kauer389 GPG fingerprint: 3C41 82BE A9E7 99A1 B931 5AE7 7638 0147 2C3C 2AC4 Old fingerprint: EC67 61E2 C2F6 EB55 884B E129 072B 0AF0 72AA 9882
USB-to-RJ45 adapter available --- Does anyone have the part number? is it A920-CONS-KIT-S - Serial Console Kit, USB-to-RJ45 cable Can anyone confirm this is the right part number Thanks Everyone -----Original Message----- From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces@nanog.org] On Behalf Of Karl Auer Sent: Monday, December 07, 2015 4:46 PM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Devices with only USB console port - Need a Console Server Solution On Mon, 2015-12-07 at 22:15 +0000, Erik Sundberg wrote:
We have one of these nice new and fancy Cisco ASR920-24SZ, just realized it doesn't have an RJ45 Console port only USB. When we deploy devices at our pop we wire the console port to a terminal\console server, well that doesn't work for a usb console device.
So what is everyone doing for out of band management via the console when it's a usb only device? Is there something I am missing? Is there a console server for USB? Does cisco make an USB to RJ45 Jack adapter?
This seems to have the info you need. Looks like that's a USB serial port, so when you plug into it, your laptop grows a new serial port that can be used to communicate with the device: http://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/td/docs/routers/asr920/hardware/installation/gu... According to that there is a USB-to-RJ45 adapter available, but not supplied with the device. Regards, K. -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Karl Auer (kauer@biplane.com.au) http://www.biplane.com.au/kauer http://twitter.com/kauer389 GPG fingerprint: 3C41 82BE A9E7 99A1 B931 5AE7 7638 0147 2C3C 2AC4 Old fingerprint: EC67 61E2 C2F6 EB55 884B E129 072B 0AF0 72AA 9882 ________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or previous e-mail messages attached to it may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the information contained in or attached to this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this transmission in error please notify the sender immediately by replying to this e-mail. You must destroy the original transmission and its attachments without reading or saving in any manner. Thank you.
Ftdi USB to Serial / Rs232 Console Rollover Cable for Cisco Routers - Rj45 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00M2SAKMG/ref=cm_sw_r_em_awd_HnHzwb7XCEQAV This is an active cable. Not passive. Any USB to serial converter will probably do it. --- Dylan Ambauen On Dec 7, 2015 2:16 PM, "Erik Sundberg" <ESundberg@nitelusa.com> wrote:
We have one of these nice new and fancy Cisco ASR920-24SZ, just realized it doesn't have an RJ45 Console port only USB. When we deploy devices at our pop we wire the console port to a terminal\console server, well that doesn't work for a usb console device.
So what is everyone doing for out of band management via the console when it's a usb only device? Is there something I am missing? Is there a console server for USB? Does cisco make an USB to RJ45 Jack adapter?
________________________________
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or previous e-mail messages attached to it may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the information contained in or attached to this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this transmission in error please notify the sender immediately by replying to this e-mail. You must destroy the original transmission and its attachments without reading or saving in any manner. Thank you.
On Mon, 2015-12-07 at 15:23 -0800, Dylan Ambauen wrote:
Any USB to serial converter will probably do it.
The OP is looking to integrate a device with a console server. "Any converter" would be a mistake. You can get these things for two dollars, but you get what you pay for. Maybe seek suggestions here as to converters others have used with success, the main criteria for success being robustness, reliability and build quality. Personally in this situation I would get the approved, vendor supplied, genuine part. Regards, K. -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Karl Auer (kauer@biplane.com.au) http://www.biplane.com.au/kauer http://twitter.com/kauer389 GPG fingerprint: 3C41 82BE A9E7 99A1 B931 5AE7 7638 0147 2C3C 2AC4 Old fingerprint: EC67 61E2 C2F6 EB55 884B E129 072B 0AF0 72AA 9882
Just some follow up on this one. I have also posed in the C-NSP list Yes you do need to have this kit to have serial console, No a normal USB-DB9 Console adapters do not work. Here are some pictures of the ASR920 Console kit A920-CONS-KIT-S The Adapter Plugs in the Top Left USB Console Port and we have it wired up to a Perle IOLAN SCS48C console server using a rollover cable. Here are some pictures of it, since I can only find a brief mention of it in all the cisco docs. http://imgur.com/a/w8clL -----Original Message----- From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces@nanog.org] On Behalf Of Karl Auer Sent: Monday, December 07, 2015 5:52 PM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Devices with only USB console port - Need a Console Server Solution On Mon, 2015-12-07 at 15:23 -0800, Dylan Ambauen wrote:
Any USB to serial converter will probably do it.
The OP is looking to integrate a device with a console server. "Any converter" would be a mistake. You can get these things for two dollars, but you get what you pay for. Maybe seek suggestions here as to converters others have used with success, the main criteria for success being robustness, reliability and build quality. Personally in this situation I would get the approved, vendor supplied, genuine part. Regards, K. -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Karl Auer (kauer@biplane.com.au) http://www.biplane.com.au/kauer http://twitter.com/kauer389 GPG fingerprint: 3C41 82BE A9E7 99A1 B931 5AE7 7638 0147 2C3C 2AC4 Old fingerprint: EC67 61E2 C2F6 EB55 884B E129 072B 0AF0 72AA 9882 ________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or previous e-mail messages attached to it may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the information contained in or attached to this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this transmission in error please notify the sender immediately by replying to this e-mail. You must destroy the original transmission and its attachments without reading or saving in any manner. Thank you.
seems like a total improvement.... swapping 1 well known, simple cable for 2... hurray progress? On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 11:34 PM, Erik Sundberg <ESundberg@nitelusa.com> wrote:
Just some follow up on this one. I have also posed in the C-NSP list
Yes you do need to have this kit to have serial console, No a normal USB-DB9 Console adapters do not work.
Here are some pictures of the ASR920 Console kit A920-CONS-KIT-S
The Adapter Plugs in the Top Left USB Console Port and we have it wired up to a Perle IOLAN SCS48C console server using a rollover cable.
Here are some pictures of it, since I can only find a brief mention of it in all the cisco docs.
-----Original Message----- From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces@nanog.org] On Behalf Of Karl Auer Sent: Monday, December 07, 2015 5:52 PM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Devices with only USB console port - Need a Console Server Solution
On Mon, 2015-12-07 at 15:23 -0800, Dylan Ambauen wrote:
Any USB to serial converter will probably do it.
The OP is looking to integrate a device with a console server. "Any converter" would be a mistake. You can get these things for two dollars, but you get what you pay for.
Maybe seek suggestions here as to converters others have used with success, the main criteria for success being robustness, reliability and build quality.
Personally in this situation I would get the approved, vendor supplied, genuine part.
Regards, K.
-- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Karl Auer (kauer@biplane.com.au) http://www.biplane.com.au/kauer http://twitter.com/kauer389
GPG fingerprint: 3C41 82BE A9E7 99A1 B931 5AE7 7638 0147 2C3C 2AC4 Old fingerprint: EC67 61E2 C2F6 EB55 884B E129 072B 0AF0 72AA 9882
________________________________
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or previous e-mail messages attached to it may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the information contained in or attached to this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this transmission in error please notify the sender immediately by replying to this e-mail. You must destroy the original transmission and its attachments without reading or saving in any manner. Thank you.
Christopher Morrow <morrowc.lists@gmail.com> writes:
seems like a total improvement.... swapping 1 well known, simple cable for 2...
hurray progress?
The USB port is probably cheaper than anything else. And it gives them more flexibility. No need for both an RS232 and Ethernet console port. The USB port can be both, depending only on driver/application support on the router. And you have other options as well. Wifi console maybe? Or a direct USB-USB cable (with the necessary logic to appear as a device to both ends). It is also possible to create USB only console servers, if the market wants that. Avoiding two RS232 conversions per console port will save enough capacitors to run a Tesla. Whether these alternatives become available is of course up to Cisco. You do need the driver and application support on the router. Time will show what they come up with. Bjørn
Here are the pictures again. http://imgur.com/a/w8clL -----Original Message----- From: Bjørn Mork [mailto:bjorn@mork.no] Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 4:16 AM To: Christopher Morrow <morrowc.lists@gmail.com> Cc: Erik Sundberg <ESundberg@nitelusa.com>; nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Devices with only USB console port - Need a Console Server Solution Christopher Morrow <morrowc.lists@gmail.com> writes:
seems like a total improvement.... swapping 1 well known, simple cable for 2...
hurray progress?
The USB port is probably cheaper than anything else. And it gives them more flexibility. No need for both an RS232 and Ethernet console port. The USB port can be both, depending only on driver/application support on the router. And you have other options as well. Wifi console maybe? Or a direct USB-USB cable (with the necessary logic to appear as a device to both ends). It is also possible to create USB only console servers, if the market wants that. Avoiding two RS232 conversions per console port will save enough capacitors to run a Tesla. Whether these alternatives become available is of course up to Cisco. You do need the driver and application support on the router. Time will show what they come up with. Bjørn ________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or previous e-mail messages attached to it may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the information contained in or attached to this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this transmission in error please notify the sender immediately by replying to this e-mail. You must destroy the original transmission and its attachments without reading or saving in any manner. Thank you.
Erik Sundberg <ESundberg@nitelusa.com> writes:
Just some follow up on this one. I have also posed in the C-NSP list
Yes you do need to have this kit to have serial console, No a normal USB-DB9 Console adapters do not work.
Which could be because the driver for that particular Console adapters is missing. Or even that the driver is there, but recognizing specific Cisco device IDs only. As you are probably aware, there are no standard USB-DB9 Console adapters. They are all vendor specific. But the cloning industry has created a few semi-standards based on specific chipsets.
Here are some pictures of the ASR920 Console kit A920-CONS-KIT-S
No inside pictures :) Assuming that this is really an USB device, and that the console port is really an USB host port, it would be useful to know the USB decriptors of the device. You wouldn't be willing to connect it to a Linux PC and run "lsusb -vd", would you? Bjørn
As you are probably aware, there are no standard USB-DB9 Console adapters. They are all vendor specific. But the cloning industry has created a few semi-standards based on specific chipsets. This is not strictly true. There is a Communications Device Class (CDC ACM) defined by the USB-IF that covers basic serial devices and most OSs (even Windows! Though it does require a .inf file anyway) include a driver for it. A rumour I heard recently was that its lack of popularity was a result of Microsoft and Intel not wanting device developers to ignore the advantages of USB and just use CDC to continue using their
On 2016-02-02 02:02, Bjørn Mork wrote: old-school RS232 protocols for mice or whatever. There are also some good reasons not to use it, such as flow control, strict timing, higher data rates, and added features available with custom chipsets, but it's just fine for a serial console. Exar, Microchip and others make simple and cheap USB-UART chips using CDC ACM, and it's a very common application example for USB microcontrollers. USB console ports are just adding complexity where it offers no advantage. KISS. Keenan
On 2/2/2016 5:02 AM, Bjørn Mork wrote:
No inside pictures :)
Assuming that this is really an USB device, and that the console port is really an USB host port, it would be useful to know the USB decriptors of the device. You wouldn't be willing to connect it to a Linux PC and run "lsusb -vd", would you?
I'm inconveniently consoled into one via a combination of remote desktop into windows -- linux console on a virtual machine -- screen /dev/ttyACM0. Because of this posting lsusb -vd is taxing. Linux has full support for the device. It sees it as cdc_acm. The vendor id is 0x04e2 (Exar Corp). Product ID is 0x1410. I've got two connected right now. This is in our lab and the windows box is temporary. Our intention is to use a raspberry pi for the terminal server. I'm obviously not in front of it, but I'm wondering if they can be enumerated by something other than when they were plugged in. That's my biggest hurdle for making a console server for them.. how to figure out what router is connected to which USB port after a reboot, or someone getting unpluggy with cables.
Bjørn
Robert
Why not use udev rules so the ports are persistent? I did that on a pi that I was using as an ice cast box. Based on the usb audio port on reboots I know which device is which stream. Regards, Dovid -----Original Message----- From: Robert Drake <rdrake@direcpath.com> Sender: "NANOG" <nanog-bounces@nanog.org>Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2016 20:03:22 To: <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Re: Devices with only USB console port - Need a Console Server Solution On 2/2/2016 5:02 AM, Bjørn Mork wrote:
No inside pictures :)
Assuming that this is really an USB device, and that the console port is really an USB host port, it would be useful to know the USB decriptors of the device. You wouldn't be willing to connect it to a Linux PC and run "lsusb -vd", would you?
I'm inconveniently consoled into one via a combination of remote desktop into windows -- linux console on a virtual machine -- screen /dev/ttyACM0. Because of this posting lsusb -vd is taxing. Linux has full support for the device. It sees it as cdc_acm. The vendor id is 0x04e2 (Exar Corp). Product ID is 0x1410. I've got two connected right now. This is in our lab and the windows box is temporary. Our intention is to use a raspberry pi for the terminal server. I'm obviously not in front of it, but I'm wondering if they can be enumerated by something other than when they were plugged in. That's my biggest hurdle for making a console server for them.. how to figure out what router is connected to which USB port after a reboot, or someone getting unpluggy with cables.
Bjørn
Robert
Digi has something called USB Anywhere. http://www.digi.com/products/usb-and-serial-connectivity/usb-over-ip-hubs/an... However I would like to limit the amount of equipment we deploy at a pop, the majority of our pop's don't have servers... Just Routers, Switches, Console Servers, and your other Network Hardware. The problem with USB is you can only wire a USB 2.0 Cable up to 15' (Per Google).... And you have to purchase a cable premade. Where as with a Serial Console you can go around 100', not to mention about just about everyone has a crimper, rj45 ends, and cat5 cable, to run and make cables as needed. Assuming something is broke...With USB let's say you rely on remote hands to do a lot of work in the colo's. First they need to find a *Working Laptop*, then you have to walk the tech through downloading the drivers and installing them on there laptop. Hoping they have permissions to install software on there laptops. Plus if it's really broke and you get no output, you will never be sure if it's USB related or not. Where as serial it's just going to work, and it's easy to test to see if it's working on not by hooking up to anothere device. -----Original Message----- From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces@nanog.org] On Behalf Of Dovid Bender Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 8:33 PM To: Robert Drake <rdrake@direcpath.com>; NANOG <nanog-bounces@nanog.org>; nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Devices with only USB console port - Need a Console Server Solution Why not use udev rules so the ports are persistent? I did that on a pi that I was using as an ice cast box. Based on the usb audio port on reboots I know which device is which stream. Regards, Dovid -----Original Message----- From: Robert Drake <rdrake@direcpath.com> Sender: "NANOG" <nanog-bounces@nanog.org>Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2016 20:03:22 To: <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Re: Devices with only USB console port - Need a Console Server Solution On 2/2/2016 5:02 AM, Bjørn Mork wrote:
No inside pictures :)
Assuming that this is really an USB device, and that the console port is really an USB host port, it would be useful to know the USB decriptors of the device. You wouldn't be willing to connect it to a Linux PC and run "lsusb -vd", would you?
I'm inconveniently consoled into one via a combination of remote desktop into windows -- linux console on a virtual machine -- screen /dev/ttyACM0. Because of this posting lsusb -vd is taxing. Linux has full support for the device. It sees it as cdc_acm. The vendor id is 0x04e2 (Exar Corp). Product ID is 0x1410. I've got two connected right now. This is in our lab and the windows box is temporary. Our intention is to use a raspberry pi for the terminal server. I'm obviously not in front of it, but I'm wondering if they can be enumerated by something other than when they were plugged in. That's my biggest hurdle for making a console server for them.. how to figure out what router is connected to which USB port after a reboot, or someone getting unpluggy with cables.
Bjørn
Robert ________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or previous e-mail messages attached to it may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the information contained in or attached to this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this transmission in error please notify the sender immediately by replying to this e-mail. You must destroy the original transmission and its attachments without reading or saving in any manner. Thank you.
On Wed, Feb 3, 2016 at 2:18 AM, Erik Sundberg <ESundberg@nitelusa.com> wrote:
Digi has something called USB Anywhere. http://www.digi.com/products/usb-and-serial-connectivity/usb-over-ip-hubs/an...
#fail "COMING SOON: Security features, such as SSL and SNMPv3" :( "Creates systems redundancy and increases security" unless you consider ssl and snmpv3 security relevant I guess? Also of interest: "10/100 Mb switched Ethernet" I hope your local-in-pop switch gear has 10/100/1000 and not just 1000 ports. This may be more problematic as the future progresses... (you can't get 100mbps ports on a qfx if I recall correctly, for example)
However I would like to limit the amount of equipment we deploy at a pop, the majority of our pop's don't have servers... Just Routers, Switches, Console Servers, and your other Network Hardware.
'console server' is, in one view of the world, now 'usb console server' ...
The problem with USB is you can only wire a USB 2.0 Cable up to 15' (Per Google).... And you have to purchase a cable premade.
this is a fairly salient point :( If I don't have a console server in each rack (or pair of racks) but as a row element, now I have significantly shorter row length before I can't console anymore.
Where as with a Serial Console you can go around 100', not to mention about just about everyone has a crimper, rj45 ends, and cat5 cable, to run and make cables as needed.
maybe the ubiquity of usb consoles will drive this i the right direction as well?
Assuming something is broke...With USB let's say you rely on remote hands to do a lot of work in the colo's. First they need to find a *Working Laptop*, then you have to walk the tech through downloading the drivers and installing them on there laptop. Hoping they have permissions to install software on there laptops. Plus if it's really broke and you get no output, you will never be sure if it's USB related or not. Where as serial it's just going to work, and it's easy to test to see if it's working on not by hooking up to another device.
my guess is that most / all tech's have a usb-serial dongle at this point, because who's laptop has serial ports anymore natively onboard? mostly you're outlining 'operational practices and norms are not accounted for yet in the usb-console design' right? which either is: 1) get out and write procedures/documentation for how this all should work 2) call back to 2005 and demand no usb in consoles on network equipment I don't think 2 is feasible :( but 1 sure is... Also, it's sort of funny to me that servers don't seem to be going this route?
-----Original Message----- From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces@nanog.org] On Behalf Of Dovid Bender Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 8:33 PM To: Robert Drake <rdrake@direcpath.com>; NANOG <nanog-bounces@nanog.org>; nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Devices with only USB console port - Need a Console Server Solution
Why not use udev rules so the ports are persistent? I did that on a pi that I was using as an ice cast box. Based on the usb audio port on reboots I know which device is which stream.
Regards,
Dovid
-----Original Message----- From: Robert Drake <rdrake@direcpath.com> Sender: "NANOG" <nanog-bounces@nanog.org>Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2016 20:03:22 To: <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Re: Devices with only USB console port - Need a Console Server Solution
On 2/2/2016 5:02 AM, Bjørn Mork wrote:
No inside pictures :)
Assuming that this is really an USB device, and that the console port is really an USB host port, it would be useful to know the USB decriptors of the device. You wouldn't be willing to connect it to a Linux PC and run "lsusb -vd", would you?
I'm inconveniently consoled into one via a combination of remote desktop into windows -- linux console on a virtual machine -- screen /dev/ttyACM0. Because of this posting lsusb -vd is taxing.
Linux has full support for the device. It sees it as cdc_acm.
The vendor id is 0x04e2 (Exar Corp). Product ID is 0x1410. I've got two connected right now. This is in our lab and the windows box is temporary. Our intention is to use a raspberry pi for the terminal server.
I'm obviously not in front of it, but I'm wondering if they can be enumerated by something other than when they were plugged in. That's my biggest hurdle for making a console server for them.. how to figure out what router is connected to which USB port after a reboot, or someone getting unpluggy with cables.
Bjørn
Robert
________________________________
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or previous e-mail messages attached to it may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the information contained in or attached to this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this transmission in error please notify the sender immediately by replying to this e-mail. You must destroy the original transmission and its attachments without reading or saving in any manner. Thank you.
Lantronix makes some serial_port-to-IP remote management devices, as well as KVM-over-IP. Some of them support USB interfaces. Be warned - you probably want to run these through a VPN gatway (most of these things are built on old versions of embedded linux - there have been compromises - the same applies to IPMI boards - been bit by this personally). Miles Fidelman On 2/3/16 10:48 AM, Christopher Morrow wrote:
On Wed, Feb 3, 2016 at 2:18 AM, Erik Sundberg <ESundberg@nitelusa.com> wrote:
Digi has something called USB Anywhere. http://www.digi.com/products/usb-and-serial-connectivity/usb-over-ip-hubs/an...
#fail "COMING SOON: Security features, such as SSL and SNMPv3"
:(
"Creates systems redundancy and increases security"
unless you consider ssl and snmpv3 security relevant I guess? Also of interest: "10/100 Mb switched Ethernet" I hope your local-in-pop switch gear has 10/100/1000 and not just 1000 ports. This may be more problematic as the future progresses... (you can't get 100mbps ports on a qfx if I recall correctly, for example)
However I would like to limit the amount of equipment we deploy at a pop, the majority of our pop's don't have servers... Just Routers, Switches, Console Servers, and your other Network Hardware.
'console server' is, in one view of the world, now 'usb console server' ...
The problem with USB is you can only wire a USB 2.0 Cable up to 15' (Per Google).... And you have to purchase a cable premade.
this is a fairly salient point :( If I don't have a console server in each rack (or pair of racks) but as a row element, now I have significantly shorter row length before I can't console anymore.
Where as with a Serial Console you can go around 100', not to mention about just about everyone has a crimper, rj45 ends, and cat5 cable, to run and make cables as needed.
maybe the ubiquity of usb consoles will drive this i the right direction as well?
Assuming something is broke...With USB let's say you rely on remote hands to do a lot of work in the colo's. First they need to find a *Working Laptop*, then you have to walk the tech through downloading the drivers and installing them on there laptop. Hoping they have permissions to install software on there laptops. Plus if it's really broke and you get no output, you will never be sure if it's USB related or not. Where as serial it's just going to work, and it's easy to test to see if it's working on not by hooking up to another device.
my guess is that most / all tech's have a usb-serial dongle at this point, because who's laptop has serial ports anymore natively onboard?
mostly you're outlining 'operational practices and norms are not accounted for yet in the usb-console design' right? which either is: 1) get out and write procedures/documentation for how this all should work 2) call back to 2005 and demand no usb in consoles on network equipment
I don't think 2 is feasible :( but 1 sure is... Also, it's sort of funny to me that servers don't seem to be going this route?
-----Original Message----- From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces@nanog.org] On Behalf Of Dovid Bender Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 8:33 PM To: Robert Drake <rdrake@direcpath.com>; NANOG <nanog-bounces@nanog.org>; nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Devices with only USB console port - Need a Console Server Solution
Why not use udev rules so the ports are persistent? I did that on a pi that I was using as an ice cast box. Based on the usb audio port on reboots I know which device is which stream.
Regards,
Dovid
-----Original Message----- From: Robert Drake <rdrake@direcpath.com> Sender: "NANOG" <nanog-bounces@nanog.org>Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2016 20:03:22 To: <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Re: Devices with only USB console port - Need a Console Server Solution
On 2/2/2016 5:02 AM, Bjørn Mork wrote:
No inside pictures :)
Assuming that this is really an USB device, and that the console port is really an USB host port, it would be useful to know the USB decriptors of the device. You wouldn't be willing to connect it to a Linux PC and run "lsusb -vd", would you? I'm inconveniently consoled into one via a combination of remote desktop into windows -- linux console on a virtual machine -- screen /dev/ttyACM0. Because of this posting lsusb -vd is taxing.
Linux has full support for the device. It sees it as cdc_acm.
The vendor id is 0x04e2 (Exar Corp). Product ID is 0x1410. I've got two connected right now. This is in our lab and the windows box is temporary. Our intention is to use a raspberry pi for the terminal server.
I'm obviously not in front of it, but I'm wondering if they can be enumerated by something other than when they were plugged in. That's my biggest hurdle for making a console server for them.. how to figure out what router is connected to which USB port after a reboot, or someone getting unpluggy with cables.
Bjørn
Robert
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On 12/7/2015 16:15, Erik Sundberg wrote:
We have one of these nice new and fancy Cisco ASR920-24SZ, just realized it doesn't have an RJ45 Console port only USB.
I am always surprised at people who unpack new toys that somebody paid a lot of money for only to find at that late date that the new toy does not fit into their defined (for some shaky value of "defined") structure. -- sed quis custodiet ipsos custodes? (Juvenal)
On Mon, Dec 07, 2015 at 10:15:28PM +0000, Erik Sundberg wrote:
We have one of these nice new and fancy Cisco ASR920-24SZ, just realized it doesn't have an RJ45 Console port only USB. When we deploy devices at our pop we wire the console port to a terminal\console server, well that doesn't work for a usb console device.
So what is everyone doing for out of band management via the console when it's a usb only device? Is there something I am missing?
Likely not. I've seen most equipment makers start to ignore serial console. The default these appears to be moving to a uBoot/PXE style network setup where you push an image and such via TFTP/DHCP into the device.
Is there a console server for USB?
I've not seen one show up, but there are other devices like this which the DIY industry has started to build: http://freetserv.github.io/ I have a side business i'm tinkering with and these are open source hardware. If there is interest, I'd be willing to build these in volume and drive the cost down. It would not be difficult to do a giant USB hub that was similar.
Does cisco make an USB to RJ45 Jack adapter?
Yes, but I'm always concerned about what boot messages are lost or things you can't quite do properly (like send break, etc) to get into the device as you're waiting for the USB to initalize, driver to present to OS, etc.. Maybe they spent more time thinking about this than I am aware, but it's something I've not had a proper solution explained to me for. - Jared -- Jared Mauch | pgp key available via finger from jared@puck.nether.net clue++; | http://puck.nether.net/~jared/ My statements are only mine.
A possible alternative, although probably not one you'd want to leave in place permanently: http://www.get-console.com/airconsole/ -Pete On 2016-02-02 06:11, Jared Mauch wrote:
On Mon, Dec 07, 2015 at 10:15:28PM +0000, Erik Sundberg wrote:
We have one of these nice new and fancy Cisco ASR920-24SZ, just realized it doesn't have an RJ45 Console port only USB. When we deploy devices at our pop we wire the console port to a terminal\console server, well that doesn't work for a usb console device.
So what is everyone doing for out of band management via the console when it's a usb only device? Is there something I am missing?
Likely not. I've seen most equipment makers start to ignore serial console. The default these appears to be moving to a uBoot/PXE style network setup where you push an image and such via TFTP/DHCP into the device.
Is there a console server for USB?
I've not seen one show up, but there are other devices like this which the DIY industry has started to build:
I have a side business i'm tinkering with and these are open source hardware. If there is interest, I'd be willing to build these in volume and drive the cost down.
It would not be difficult to do a giant USB hub that was similar.
Does cisco make an USB to RJ45 Jack adapter?
Yes, but I'm always concerned about what boot messages are lost or things you can't quite do properly (like send break, etc) to get into the device as you're waiting for the USB to initalize, driver to present to OS, etc.. Maybe they spent more time thinking about this than I am aware, but it's something I've not had a proper solution explained to me for.
- Jared
The airconsole's are cute ... but not really practical. I happened to get a chip computer (getchip.com ?) and turned it into a console server I can get to over the net ... at least at home and equinix. it's also 'cute' but not really practical... it is only 9 USD though, so there's that. I'm really unclear why USB for console is 'a thing' for large gear... 9600 is plenty fast for typing, 115200 is acceptable (in a pinch) for code upgrades... (icky, yes, but...) I wonder if you can x-modem over the usb... and at what rate. I also do wonder about jared's problem of: "hey so I need to hit break to fix this gear during reboot.... oops! driver not loaded yet!" On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 3:27 PM, Peter Loron <peterl@standingwave.org> wrote:
A possible alternative, although probably not one you'd want to leave in place permanently:
http://www.get-console.com/airconsole/
-Pete
On 2016-02-02 06:11, Jared Mauch wrote:
On Mon, Dec 07, 2015 at 10:15:28PM +0000, Erik Sundberg wrote:
We have one of these nice new and fancy Cisco ASR920-24SZ, just realized it doesn't have an RJ45 Console port only USB. When we deploy devices at our pop we wire the console port to a terminal\console server, well that doesn't work for a usb console device.
So what is everyone doing for out of band management via the console when it's a usb only device? Is there something I am missing?
Likely not. I've seen most equipment makers start to ignore serial console. The default these appears to be moving to a uBoot/PXE style network setup where you push an image and such via TFTP/DHCP into the device.
Is there a console server for USB?
I've not seen one show up, but there are other devices like this which the DIY industry has started to build:
I have a side business i'm tinkering with and these are open source hardware. If there is interest, I'd be willing to build these in volume and drive the cost down.
It would not be difficult to do a giant USB hub that was similar.
Does cisco make an USB to RJ45 Jack adapter?
Yes, but I'm always concerned about what boot messages are lost or things you can't quite do properly (like send break, etc) to get into the device as you're waiting for the USB to initalize, driver to present to OS, etc.. Maybe they spent more time thinking about this than I am aware, but it's something I've not had a proper solution explained to me for.
- Jared
On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 9:11 AM, Jared Mauch <jared@puck.nether.net> wrote:
Yes, but I'm always concerned about what boot messages are lost or things you can't quite do properly (like send break, etc) to get into the device as you're waiting for the USB to initalize, driver to present to OS, etc.. Maybe they spent more time thinking about this than I am aware, but it's something I've not had a proper solution explained to me for.
Hi Jared, Like all USB to serial adapters, the the USB port on the router is powered by the laptop or whatever device it's plugged in to. It initializes and is ready before you turn the router on. I have not had any problems sending a serial break via USB-to-serial adapters. Have you? You can get a server in a shallow-depth 1U case with a solid state drive just as readily as a serial console server. Add USB ports and hubs. This gives you a Linux box on site (handy for troubleshooting) and might simplify your cabling (put USB hubs beside a bank of devices and run only one cable back to the server). A little bit of scripting with the hotplug system will let you associate the USB device using a given serial number with whatever name you care to give it, which might also simplify documentation for which router is plugged in where. As for why they made the change... EIA-232 serial ports are becoming rare. Not much uses them any more and it has become hard to find a laptop with one built in. Regards, Bill Herrin -- William Herrin ................ herrin@dirtside.com bill@herrin.us Owner, Dirtside Systems ......... Web: <http://www.dirtside.com/>
On Feb 2, 2016, at 3:56 PM, William Herrin <bill@herrin.us> wrote:
On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 9:11 AM, Jared Mauch <jared@puck.nether.net> wrote:
Yes, but I'm always concerned about what boot messages are lost or things you can't quite do properly (like send break, etc) to get into the device as you're waiting for the USB to initalize, driver to present to OS, etc.. Maybe they spent more time thinking about this than I am aware, but it's something I've not had a proper solution explained to me for.
Hi Jared,
Like all USB to serial adapters, the the USB port on the router is powered by the laptop or whatever device it's plugged in to. It initializes and is ready before you turn the router on.
I have not had any problems sending a serial break via USB-to-serial adapters. Have you?
Yes. I’ve had a lot of issues with various USB serial devices and proper support. There’s a lot of cheap windows only hardware out there.
You can get a server in a shallow-depth 1U case with a solid state drive just as readily as a serial console server. Add USB ports and hubs. This gives you a Linux box on site (handy for troubleshooting) and might simplify your cabling (put USB hubs beside a bank of devices and run only one cable back to the server). A little bit of scripting with the hotplug system will let you associate the USB device using a given serial number with whatever name you care to give it, which might also simplify documentation for which router is plugged in where.
If you look at a modern router, eg: ASR9922, you have at least 4 serial ports that need to be connected. Adding a server per router gets expensive quickly, not to include keeping the right kvm/vmware -> vm mapping in place for the work.
As for why they made the change... EIA-232 serial ports are becoming rare. Not much uses them any more and it has become hard to find a laptop with one built in.
Like I said, that’s why we’ve seen things like that CERN open hardware solution come into play. It’s cheaper than your above mentioned server and has more robust support for the “industry standard” RJ45 pinout. - Jared
participants (16)
-
alvin nanog -
Bjørn Mork -
Christopher Morrow -
Dovid Bender -
Dylan Ambauen -
Erik Sundberg -
Jared Mauch -
Jared Mauch
-
Jeremy Bresley -
Karl Auer -
Keenan Tims -
Larry Sheldon -
Miles Fidelman -
Peter Loron -
Robert Drake -
William Herrin